science. these images are from a documentary by the jackson ks historical society credited to the u.s. air force and these are real time issues of him in the late 1950s in the air force and show some of what he went through as part of his service. his name was alton yates. he is 23 years old in these pictures, airman second class in the u.s. air force. what you see him doing here is participating in important testing that was conducted for the u.s. space program. they were using airmen and the u.s. air force for tests that were designed to see whether the human body could really with stand what were expected to be the rigors of space travel. the vast stresses of acceleration and rapid deceleration and pressure changes and everything else. alton yates was not the only airman who went through this but he was one of them and he participated in a huge number, in 65 of those tests of the human body in the extremes. and he is fine. he lived to tell the tale and proudly. he was discharged in 1959 after that very honorable service. after he was discharged in 1959 he headed home. to jacksonville, florida. around this time he was getting out of the air force after this amazing service, late 1959 early 1960, obviously there was tremendous organizing happening throughout the american south at that time for the civil rights movement. for that young man who had been serving his country, he was 23, 24 years old at the time. there was a lot in the air. in february, 1960, students in greensboro, north carolina, had started this new tactic sitting in at segregated lunch counters. that tactic moved from greensboro, north carolina and soon spread all over the south. by august, 1960 it had spread t jacksonville, florida, the home of alton yates. a local naacp in 1960 had a youth council. the president of the youth council was all of 16 years oldf he was a high school student named rodney hearst. the vice president of the naacpc council in jacksonville was this recently discharged hero airman, alton yates. and under their leadership, this high school kid and this recently discharged hero, airman, the naacp youth council in jacksonville, florida decidei in 1960, august, 1960, august 1 13th to be specific, that they, too, would start segregated lunch counter sit-ins.ga they would have young black people sit down at the whites only lunch counters in segregated downtown jacksonville, florida. first one was august 13th. they were berated and attacked.e the lunch counters were actually closed down in the middle of the day rather than serve those young people.e the lights were turned off.ts the kids nevertheless decided e that they would keep doing it and they would expand it to include all the segregated lunch counters in downtown ud jacksonville. that first peaceful nonviolent sit-in had been on august 13th.d by august 16th, they had not just resistance and attacks in the moment they had organized resistance. the white citizens council in si jacksonville convened a meeting august 16th in which they pledged they were going to stopt these kids, stop these young th people from what they were doing at all costs. by august 24th, not yet two weeks into this process, the local ku klux klan held its own meeting to plan not just resistance but a violent counterattack to stop these kids. and we know this. there is documentary proof of it because the local klan in jacksonville at the time included one man who volunteered to be an fbi informant inside the klan and he gave the minutef of the klan meeting from august 24th, 1960, to the fbi. this meeting in which they planned to attack these young people from the naacp youth a council. the fbi then alerted the local sheriff's office that the klan was planning a violent attack. local authorities, local law or enforcement knew the whole plan in advance. they knew the klan was planning to bring hundreds of white men downtown into jacksonville the following saturday, august 27th, whereupon they would have stashed baseball bats and ax handles to use as their weapons. the informant said the klan's initial plan had been sort of theatrical.an they planned to have a white woman pretend to have been attacked by young black men who were trying to desegregate the lunch counters. they said that the plan was to, the informant said the plan wasm to get this woman near to where the sit-in demonstration was em happening and then she would collapse and say she had been attacked and that's why she collapsed. and they thought that would give the klansmen all the cover they'd need to open up the gates of hell in downtown jacksonville.le in the end though that was their plan they decided they didn't de need the pretext of the woman re pretending to be attacked, the woman pretending to collapse. the klansmen stashed ax handles and baseball bats in the bushes at a downtown jacksonville park. they went and retrieved them from that park. they handed out more of them from a vehicle, some sort of van or truck, and then these klansmen, something like 200 of them, just mauraded into downtown jacksonville and ostensibly were targeting the young people, the naacp youth council that had been carrying out the nonviolent civil disobedience at the lunch counters. but turns out the klan couldn't contain themselves and it turned into just a free for all. and, yes, the naacp youth council was set upon, airman second class alton yates was cracked across the skull. they also just went after everybody who was black in wh downtown jacksonville that day including women and kids and men who had nothing to do with the demonstration at all who were just passersby. this photo appeared in "life" magazine at the time. you see that young man bloodied and dazed. he actually was not an activist. he had not been part of the lunch counter sit-ins at all. his name was charlie griffin. he was just a high school junior, just a bystander. but they went after him, too. and with images like this coming out of jacksonville, you can see why this explosion of racist violence on august 27th in jacksonville, florida, 1960, you can see why it got national news. it ended up, this photo, in "life" magazine and also ended up on the front page of the "new york times." "violence flares in jacksonville." 50 injured as white gangs clash with negros. in "life" magazine, on the front page of the "new york times." you know where it didn't end up on the front page was the main white newspaper in jacksonville, florida.pa "florida times union." they didn't cover the sit-ins at the downtown lunch counters at all, and when it came to the he white race riot on august 27th they buried coverage of that on page 15 of the paper. which is all the more amazing when you consider that after the initial frenzied attack, hundreds of white men running through the downtown chasing people down and beating them with ax handles, after that initial, frenzied attack, the rioting in jacksonville actually continued for two more nights. the "florida times union" the white paper of record did not see fit to mention it. it was just a hurricane of violence. in the end, the kids, the young people who organized those protests at the lunch counters, they won. they started those protests like i said in august, 1960. by the spring of 1961, jacksonville had quietly integrated its downtown lunch counters. and it took longer but the "florida times union" newspaper in recent years has tried to make up for the dismal role that it played in these events. they have in years since devoted serious coverage to the annual anniversary of what has become known as "ax handle saturday" such a dramatic name but they really did stockpile and hand out ax handles and use them in an orgy of white violence against any black person they could find in jacksonville that day and that night and the night after. ax handle saturday. this weekend on saturday in washington, d.c. there was a big commemoration of the 60th at anniversary of the march on washington. 60 years since a quarter million americans came to washington to press peacefully for civil rights. march on washington is of course one of the red letter, most important days in american history. it's just a moral apex moment for this country that still would be remembered as such even if it hadn't provided the setting for one of the most important and beloved speeches in the modern world. the "i have a dream" speech from martin luther king. but as that 60th anniversary of the march on washington was celebrated this weekend and today in washington, in jacksonville this weekend they were also marking the anniversary of ax handle saturday. both of those anniversaries coincided with today's news with a young white man with swastikas etched on his ar-15 heading into a black neighborhood dollar store in jacksonville, florida and opening fire. at least according to one local official the young man told white people they should leave the store that he was about to shoot up. and then he kept shooting specifically at black people. he killed two young african a american men and an african american woman before police say he then shot himself. local authorities announced just tonight that they are finishing up going through the various racist manifestos that he left behind so they can get those released to the public in the interest of transparency. do we really need those released to the public? i do not know. we will get some expert help on thereat important question i think in just a moment. but they did already give us the photos of the swastikas he usedh to decorate the gun that he used to go kill black people. i mean, sure, let's keep going. i'm not sure how much more illuminating we will find the ng very dead end of this very short street. like i said, we will get some expert help on that in just a moment. in generally feel like it's always better to know than to not know. especially given how much we arg prone to forget. in 2020, for example, the republican national committee had to scramble a bit when they forgot to notice that they had picked ax handle saturday as a great day for donald trump to go to jacksonville, florida, to accept the republican party's r nomination for president. f what better way to commemorate 60 years since a bloody orgy of american racial violence than to go right there to that site and say you're happy to accept the nomination for president. we are prone to forget. this weekend the st. paul ame church in jacksonville held a nd vigil for victims of this weekend's racist mass shooting in jacksonville by this man with the swastikas on his gun. i should tell you that is the same congregation, the same ame congregation that gave shelter to black men and women and kids who were hunted by the ax handle wielding mobs this same weekend 63 years ago in jacksonville in 1960. this same weekend neo-nazis spread anti-semitic flyers attacking jews again in macon, georgia. also this weekend neo-nazi group turned out in a show of force in woburn, massachusetts to menace and intimidate immigrant families living there. we are a week out from a man with a history of far right to postings on social media shooting and killing a woman in san bernadino, california because she flew a pride flag outside her store. this follows neo-nazi cds randomly being mailed to people all over montana and other neo-nazi groups demonstrating at the state capitol in augusta, maine. in jacksonville, itself, they have been plagued over the past year by neo-nazi groups using laser projectors to project swastikas and other nazi imagery in quotes on to downtown buildings on the jacksonville skyline and on to the jacksonville stadium. we're still today watching the unfurling stream of bomb threats to oklahoma elementary schools after the far right education commissioner in oklahoma decided he would amplify extreme right attacks on an oklahoma elementary school librarian, which has resulted now in days and days and days of death threats and bomb threats targeting oklahoma elementary schools, headline in "the tulsa world" more school bomb threats keep investigators busy and parents worried. you know, sometimes there are law enforcement consequences foo these things. this week we're going to see four straight days of sentencings for members of pro trump, armed right wing paramilitary groups whose members have been convicted of seditious conspiracy against the u.s. government. those sentencings start tomorrow in federal court in washington and continue all week. but even as we await those ue sentencings starting tomorrow, today the georgia bureau of investigation, which is the georgia state version of the fbi, they had to send a message to all state lawmakers in georgia asking lawmakers to please report all new threats they receive, all concerning interactions with members of the public. please report those to law enforcement because of a heightened threat environment for politicians in georgia because, of course, there is a i lot going on in what counts as the straight up normal news right now. in georgia, in the georgia case in which former president trump and 18 codefendants are chargedf with engaging in a criminal racketeering enterprise aimed at derailing the transfer of powerh and keeping trump in office despite him losing the election, today interestingly, we had kind of a mini trial of some of the claims that are at issue in thaa indictment. it wasn't exactly a dry run, because what happened today is potentially a really consequential thing in itself, but today in georgia, somewhat to everyone's surprise, we had trump's white house chief of staff mark meadows and georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger and other witnesses all testifying in an all day hearing that did kind of seem like a mini version of the georgia trial in that they hit a lot of the merits of that case. this today was all part of an effort to take that georgia case out of georgia state court and g have it heard in federal court instead. we'll talk more about what thatm means coming up this hour and ng what we learned from that sort of mini trial in court today. we also got word today from the federal judge who is hearing trump's january 6th federal case in washington, d.c. we heard from her today that she wants jury selection to start in that trial the first week of march. that date is very interesting. it is also very soon. we also, though, in today's proceedings got a window into how that federal judge is going to conduct that case, how she is going to run that courtroom. she had, for example, a surprising and very specific warning for trump's defense team that we're going to get some expert help on tonight over the course of this hour. there is a lot going on. but because i do think we are prone to forget i think it is ge also important to not lose sight of the environment in which all of this news is happening. this morning heading into what we knew would be two big important cases today, reporter alan feuer wrote an article this morning sort of reminding us where this may be heading. he said, quote, the time tables for mr. trump's four trials have taken on outsize importance not only because there are so many of them but also because they are unfolding against trump's crowded calendar as the candidate leading the field for the republican candidate for nomination. trump has made no secret in ma private conversations with his r aides of his desire to solve his jumble of legal problems by winning the election. quote, if either of the two federal trials is delayed until after the election and trump prevails he could seek to pardon himself after taking office or have his attorney general simply dismiss the matters all together. i know that learning that trump has been saying that privately to his staffers is not shocking news per se, right? we knew that was what he was probably think. per the "new york times" it is now significant that is now what he is telling people he is going to do. he will solve his jumble of legal problems by winning the election. and, you know, whatever you think about that, that's how he is thinking about that. and what does that say about the election for all of the rest ofr us, right? it means in his own mind and hi those of his campaign and his supporters, presumably, these are the stakes and again whatever you think about that as a legal strategy for trump that is how he is thinking about the election. that is how he is going to be talking to his supporters and aides and campaign about the election.ca the election means one of two things if this is the way he is going to approach it. either he loses the election and goes to prison or he wins the election. he doesn't go to prison. and is that for life he gets to be president? will we keep having new elections? if every election is an opportunity for him to go to le prison do you think he allows ut to have elections?yo if winning the election is his plan to stay out of prison what happens if and when he does not win it? does that kind of election end with a graceful concession to a fair and square re-elected president biden? i mean, if trump and his supporters see the stakes as losing and going to prison or winning and being president and probably president for life, how should we expect that he and the republican party and republican officials in swing states are going to handle the conduct of that election that trump may very well lose? and because we are prone to forget, we have to say out loud that we would be remiss. we would be willfully naive to ask that question as if our politics exists in a vacuum. somewhere outside the rest of our news. as if the politics pages are li totally different than the crime pages, right? as if we are not in a moment where far right politics is re coinciding with far right violence, with regular shows of force from paramilitary extreme right groups and with acts of violence by people who are explicitly and admittedly motivated by far right eliminationist political ideas. we are prone to forget but we do not have to forget. so what should we know? what can we know about what happens in the far right politics when it appears to be in nexus with far, far right violence that right now is just pinging off the charts? joining us now is one of the nation's leading researchers on far right extremism and white power movements, kathleen belew, associate professor at northwest university and author of "bringa the war home the white power movement and paramilitary america." professor, i really appreciate you making time to be here with us tonight. thank you so much. >> thanks for having me. >> so one of the reasons i want to talk to you tonight is because of the jacksonville authorities, jacksonville sheriff saying tonight that they're pretty sure they're et going to release the racist manifestos from this shooter in jacksonville this weekend. they say they want to do that in the interest of transparency. somebody who studied these things for a long time what do you make of that decision? what do you think the impact is positive or negative of letting those manifestos see the light of day? >> so manifestos are tricky documents because on the one hand they are deeply coded. they are intended to impart arnt information to future gunmen at target selection, weapon selection, the ins and outs of how to carry out a similar attack. so we see these manifestos ending up in the hands of future attackers. that is a huge problem and authorities are absolutely righ to be cautious in how this circulates. the trick is, though, that without the manifesto people who study white power violence, military right violence, are really working with a much smaller amount of information so right now were i to say this is a clear incident of white power gun violence, i'm basing that on the choice of the target and the scrawled messages on the barrel of the gun. these are a clear reference to the christ church shooting, reminiscent of what we saw in that attack. but without the manifesto we are working with a lot less information. i tend to think we might easilyh release the manifestos to experts who can analyze them and decode without circulating them publicly and get sort of the best of both options. >> the jacksonville sheriff has said publicly that he doesn't think the shooter was part of a larger group. that he acted alone. as you mentioned obviously thern is a lot we still don't know here. i wanted to ask you about this sort of lone wolf idea because you've written a lot about this and i feel like your take on this is important for people to absorb at a popular level. >> sure. >> if the shooter did espouse white supremacist beliefs can you explain why it might be dangerous or even wrong to dismiss that as a lone wolf event based on the fact that he acted a is a single person when he went out shooting? >> absolutely. this is why we need the manifesto. when we consume stories of this violence as a lone wolf, quote-unquote, we are consuming them as if they exist without connection to each other or t ideological basis. this is how we get stories about jacksonville as something separate from christ church and pittsburgh and buffalo and a charleston. many of these attacks have not only a shared characteristics in the communities that are impacted but they are all ut carried out by white power perpetrators who are united through social ties, united ideologically, they share information about weapons and tactics and strategies and they are all working for the same purpose, which by the way is not limited only to mass attacks as a strategy but also exists in this outline you just gave wheri it is running into our national politics and should be discussed in the same breath not only as other mass attacks but also in the same breath as the other sort of pings of activity that you have outlined. one way to think about this is that although the scheduling of the ax handle saturday moment for the trump campaign might have been erroneous, we have many other incidents where trump's open embrace of this movement has not been erroneous and i could think for instance of the press conference he scheduled in waco this spring to announce his renewed campaign for 2024. waco to many people may simply signify the branch davidian siege and the sort of general antifederal government sentiment that people take from that. but to white power activists waco is a direct reference to the oklahoma city bombing. it is a call to further violence. so, you know, we can have a discussion about whether or not they meant it this way but there is plenty of information, plenty of historical precedent, plenty of expert analysis that can tell us what this movement will perceive. and all signs point to increasing acts of violence. >> kathleen belew associate n professor of history at northwestern, author of "bring the war home the white power movement and paramilitary america." professor belew, i really appreciate you being here tonight, always to talk about a something dark but you always bring some light to the subject. thank you. >> thank you. ou >> we have much more ahead tonight. do stay with us. i gotta wrap this commercial, i think i'm late on my payment. it's okay, the general gives you a break. yeah, we let you pick your own due date. good to know, because this next scene might take a while. for a great low rate, go with the general. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. we got the transcript. okay. quote, the deputy clerk, good morning, your honor. this is criminal case number 23-257, united states of america versus donald j. trump. counsel, please approach the lectern and state your appearance for the record. ms. gaston, the prosecutor. good morning, your honor. molly gaston for the united states along with thomas windom. the judge, good morning. mr. laurel the defense lawyer. good morning, your honor. john laurel on behalf of president trump. with me is my partner greg singer and tom blanche who has noticed an appearance as well as cocounsel for president trump. the judge, all right. good morning, everyone. we are here for a hearing regarding the parties' proposed trial dates. so this was the hearing today in federal court in d.c. to set a date for the trial of donald trump in one of the four criminal trials he is currently facing. this is the case about him trying to falsify the election results. it's a federal case about that. what this means in practical terms is that this hearing today was basically the opportunity for trump's lawyers to defend their argument that they've already made to the court in print that trump's trial, federal trial trying to overturn the election results shouldn't start for another two and a half years. it shouldn't start until 2026. today was the hearing where they were going to defend that argument. today judge chutkan federal judge in d.c. made clear they are not going to get their 2026 wish but how she got there was kind of amazing. the judge, quote, now i want to note here that setting a trial date does not depend and should not depend on a defendant's personal and professional obligations. mr. trump like any defendant will have to make the trial date work regardless of his schedule. if this case for example involved a professional athlete it would be inappropriate for me to schedule a trial date to accommodate her schedule. the same is true here. among other things the public has an interest in the fair and timely administration of justice as well as reducing defendant's opportunity to commit crimes while on pretrial release and preventing extended pretrial delay from impairing the deterrent effect of punishment. the prosecutors then tried to sort of bolster that point from the judge, ms. gaston the prosecutor says, quote, the defendant formerly the senior most official in our federal government is accused of historic crimes, attempting to overturn the presidential election, disenfranchise millions of americans, and obstruct the peaceful trans per of power. there's an incredibly strong public interest in a jury's prompt and full consideration of those claims in open court. and there is also a strong public interest in a fair trial which means we need to proceed to trial as soon as the defense can be ready, reasonably, because on a near daily basis the defendant posts on social media about this case. he has publicly disparaged witnesses. he has attacked the integrity of the courts and the citizens of the district of columbia who make up our jury pool, and this potentially prejudices the jury pool. so under the speedy trial act your honor we need to find a time for trial when -- well -- as soon as the defense can reasonably be ready. so that is the judge saying, listen. the public has an interest in a speedy trial here. the prosecutor saying oh, yes they do. when the judge though attempts to have a discussion about what would be a reasonable amount of time for trump's defense lawyers to go through all the evidence, that was a very heated portion of today's hearing. the judge found herself repeatedly instructing trump's lawyer basically to calm down. quote, mr. laurel, defense counsel, this is a request for a show trial not a speedy trial and i'm sorry, your honor, to suggest for a federal prosecutor to suggest that we could go to trial in four months is not only absurd but it's a violation of the oath to do justice. let me just go through this organized material. and then the judge interrupts. okay. let's take the temperature down for a moment here. trump's lawyer goes on. mr. laurel, quote, for the government to suggest that i can do that in four months is an outrage to justice. not once have they talked about justice in this case, not once. so this is what i have to do. now they can give me key documents. that's very nice of them. that's very kind of them. i'd like to know one defense lawyer in the united states that's going to rely on a government's proposal of key documents. the judge, mr. lauro, as i said, let's take the temperature down. in the end judge chutkan scheduled the trial for march 4th not of 2026 but of next year. the judge says, quote, the offense giving rise to this case occurred at the end of 2020 and the beginning of 2021. to propose trying this case over five years later risks the real danger that witnesses may become unavailable or their memories may fade. and while mr. trump has a right to time to prepare, the public has a right to a prompt and efficient resolution of this matter. this timeline does not move the case forward with the haste of the mob. the trial will start three years one month and 27 days after the events of january 6th, 2021. so march 4th. jury selection begins. here is one other thing judge chutkan said today i think is worth noting and actually worth getting some advice about. the judge said today, quote, i realize that mr. trump's criminal case in new york is scheduled for trial on march 25th. i did speak briefly with the new york judge to let him know i was considering a date that might overlap with his trial. she is explaining why she is picking this date noting it is up against the new york date but she says she has spoken to the judge. interesting. trump obviously has many trials in the next year. there is the one in new york on dozens of state felony charges, also the federal documents in florida and prosecutors in those cases may not themselves be talking to each other but the judges apparently are talking to each other. judge chutkan saying in open court today she has spoken to the judge for example in trump's new york case to give him a heads up, to help de-conflict between at least those two trials. and while that might seem common sense, that's the first time we have seen anyone in any position of authority playing the role of air traffic controllers for all of these trials that are all going to be trying to land in the same year. and that happened on a day we got a surprise preview of what's going to happen in the georgia trial thanks to a surprise courtroom appearance from trump's white house chief of staff mark meadows. lots happened today. we've got chuck rosenberg to help us understand what it all means. he is here with us next. is her. yeah, with flexible payment options to keep you covered. so today is your lucky...day [crash] so today is your lucky...day for a great low rate, go with the general. we planned well for retirement, but i wish we had more cash. you think those two have any idea? that they can sell their life insurance policy for cash? so they're basically sitting on a goldmine? i don't think they have a clue. that's crazy! well, not everyone knows coventry's helped thousands of people sell their policies for cash. even term policies. i can't believe they're just sitting up there! 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fulton county courthouse but in the federal court in atlanta because he is asking the federal court to pluck this trial out of state court in georgia and please hold it in federal court instead. why does he want that? well, all the 19 georgia codefendants including trump would probably prefer having their case go before a federal jury drawn from the whole northern district of georgia. they'd prefer that to going before a state jury that would be drawn just from blue fulton county. but how likely is it that meadows will get his wish here? how did he do in his five hours on the stand today? if he does succeed, if he does get his case moved out of state court and into federal court, would that mean that the whole georgia case, the whole rico case would all go to federal court or would it just be meadows? how might the back and forth in georgia over this affect what happens in d.c.? where trump just got a court date from march 4th of next year today. also, what gets decided next? how is this all going to go? joining us now is chuck rosenberg former u.s. attorney, former senior fbi official. chuck, it is great to see you. thanks for being here tonight. >> my pleasure, rachel. >> what do we know about how mark meadows did today, how good his case is that his trial should be moved to federal court? >> yeah, so there's a three part supreme court test that's important that i want to talk to you about. in order to get plucked out of state court as you described, he would have to show that he was a federal official. he was. that part's easy. that he was acting within the scope of his federal authority. that part's hard. and the third piece, rachel, that he would have a colorable federal offense if the case were removed from state court. let's focus on number two was he acting within the scope of his federal authority? i think that is a hard thing for him to show. chiefs of staff do lots of things and the chief of staff to a president of course does lots of things. but this was a political effort to thwart a fair and free election. and if mr. meadows is going to get tripped up over anything, it's this notion that he was acting within the scope of his federal authority. so he has a plausible claim. it's not a frivolous claim. but i think the judge is going to be skeptical that he meets that second prong to show that he was acting in the scope of his federal authority. >> chuck, why is it that every smart lawyer in the country looking at the news today said that it was shocking that mark meadows decided to take the stand and testify let alone for five hours in this hearing? >> yeah, simply because he didn't have to, rachel. i mean, his side could have tried to meet their burden of proof and it was their burden of proof today by putting in affidavits or calling other witnesses. but remember, he is a defendant in a criminal case and so anything he says can be used against him in that case. that is pretty treacherous. it's one thing for him to answer questions from his own attorneys. that could be scripted. that could be prepped. that could be tested. it's another thing for him to answer questions on cross examination, which is precisely what happened. so if prosecutors got something valuable from his testimony today, they could use it against him in a criminal trial. that's what is surprising. that he took the stand at all when he actually didn't have to. >> the hearing today did not end with the judge ruling. the judge has to decide whether the case will be removed to federal court, which is what mr. meadows is seeking. we'll get that ruling eventually. if mr. meadows succeeds and the case does get moved to federal court does that mean the whole case is going to get moved to federal court, that all of the other defendants will benefit in the same way he is trying to here? >> great question. i don't think you have enough time in the show for me to explain all of the possibilities, rachel. but there's two answers. yes and no. there's one school of thought that said the other 18 defendants go with mr. meadows. if one goes they all go to put it simply. there is another school of thought and i think this is probably more likely that you would determine what happens to each defendant on his or her own merits. remember, some of them are not even federal officials. some of them wouldn't have any plausible colorable federal defense in federal court. it makes more sense to me that you would determine each one on his or her own merits. >> that seems fair. random state senator or a publicist for a rapper at least at this point in our country's history doesn't count as a federal official. chuck rosenberg former u.s. attorney, former senior fbi official, clarion as always. chuck, thank you so much. >> thank you, rachel. >> we'll be right back. stay with us. x this. (alternate voice) poligrip power hold + seal gives our strongest hold and 5x food seal. if your mouth could talk, it would ask for... poligrip. how can you sleep on such a firm setting? gab, mine is almost the same as yours. almost is just another word for not as good as mine. save 50% on the sleep number® limited edition smart bed. plus, 60-month financing on all smart beds. shop now only at sleep number®. five members of one pro trump armed paramilitary group will appear in court tomorrow for a hearing that may well decide the course of the rest of their lives. proud boys and oathkeepers convicts are going to be sentenced all week this week in federal court in d.c. some of these folks were convicted of seditious conspiracy, some were convicted of lesser charges. the high point at least in terms of public attention will likely wednesday when proud boys leaders enrique tarrio and ethan nordean are set to we be sentenced both convicted of seditious conspiracy and the department of justice seeking 33 years for tarrio and 27 years for nordean for their roles in trying to overthrow the u.s. government and keep donald trump in power. two other proud boys convicted of seditious conspiracy are going to face sentencing on thursday and then another proud boy will face sentencing on friday. this is all happening over the course of this week. starting tomorrow we are about to see the real sharp end of the stick in terms of what the legal system can bring to bear against people who try to overthrow the government and are convicted for doing so. these guys are looking at potentially decades in prison. we're about to learn if they get it. you can bet the defendants in other january 6 related cases are going to be watching. so of course will we. so of course will we for a great low rate, go with the general. i need it cool at night. you trying to ice me out of the bed? baby, only on game nights. you know you are retired right? am i? ya! the queen sleep number c2 smart bed is now only $999. plus, 60-month financing on all smart beds. shop now only at sleep number. here's why you should switch fro to duckduckgo on all your devie duckduckgo comes with a built-n engine like google, but it's pi and doesn't spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. one last bit of news tonight i hope you forgive me but it is my own news. i have a new book coming out. it is called "prequel an american fight against facism." timely. comes out october 14th. you can preorder it now if you would like to. the news i want to give you tonight is this. i told you i would tell you when i have this to share and i now do. i am going to do a book tour for "prequel" where i travel around the country and you can come see me if you would like to. i am going to start october 15th in philadelphia. then i'm going to new york, d.c., chicago, atlanta, san francisco, l.a., seattle, boulder, tulsa, i'm going to do a final stop in western massachusetts but then i have another couple events in new york. a live taping with chris hayes for his podcast "why is this happening." that is going to be fun november 12th in new york and then on december 13th i'll sit down at the 92nd street "y" in new york. big long book tour and then a little break and then a couple more new york events. so a bunch of stuff is happening. if you would like to come to one of the book tour stops you can. just go to msnbc.com/prequel. again, the book is called "prequel." there is a link below me on your screen. you can get tickets and come see me on the book tour. yay. okay. that does it for us for now. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is up next. if that was true then why was he circcomventing all white house counsel's advice? why wasn't pat cipollone? volved? why wasn't doj? volved? instead mark recruited lawyers who he wanted to listen to. >> that's the former chief of staff for vice president mike pence weighing in on testimony from mark meadows, donald trump's former chief of staff, who spent hours on the witness stand yesterday in georgia. and that comes as a date is now set for donal