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fantastic job, i have to tell you. fantastic job. but it's a very sad experience, and it is a very sad day for our country. >> donald trump talking about his arrest last night in fulton county. he's now officially inmate number pz1135809. we'll have all the new developments out of georgia. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, august 25th. for the first time in american history, a former president of the united states has taken a mug shot. donald trump surrendered at the fulton county jail yesterday where he was given an inmate number and fingerprinted. he was weighed. trump was processed on 13 felony charges over alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election. the former president was released on $200,000 bond shortly after. he is now using his mug shot to solicit campaign donations. on x, formerly twitter, trump posted the mug shot and links to his website. the campaign is selling shirts saying, "never surrender," with the picture on it, even though that is exactly what he did at the fulton county jail. surrender, joe. >> yeah. willie, obviously, the view of any ex-president with a mug shot, deserved or not, is certainly jarring. i'm curious, what are the papers in new york and across the country showing? >> it is jarring. we knew it was coming, but to see it of any president, this president, it is incredibly striking. for a man who grew up in these tabloids in new york city, who trafficked them his entire life, whether it was celebrity stuff, his tv shows, women or business, here he is now on the front page of the newspaper that he has been in for most of his life. "the new york post," no headline. just the mug shot of inmate pz 1135809, booked yesterday in fulton county, georgia, on 13 felony charges. here's the new york daily news, "enemy of democracy," showing the mug shot, as well, joe. >> yeah. it is jarring. mika, you look through everything that happened yesterday and how he ended up last night. again, i guess it is predictable that he is going to end up on a positive show talking about how he's the victim of things. i'll just say, there's a lot of ground noise out there, a lot of chaos, a lot of people talking and chattering. the signal, what matters the most, is what happens with the law, what happens inside the courtroom. i've got to say, again, just every attorney that's ever practiced that i've ever talked to looks at all the counts that are brought against him, and i just -- i've yet to find one that doesn't say, "he's going to get convicted on one of these charges and likely going to end up in jail, unless he pleas out." >> yeah. let's bring in justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. ken, obviously, the headline is the mug shot, the booking, the surrendering, but what's next? what are the legal maneuvers next? what are the dates to look for, and what exactly is this former president facing, especially with all the other different trials and indictments that he is dealing with? but in fulton county, there are so many different co-defendants, so many different mug shots, so many different screaming headlines. but as joe points out, what's the main issue here facing this former president? >> well, the main issue is, to joe's point, the avalanche of criminal charges, the dizzying array of proceedings. it's hard for people to get their arms around this. most of us have never been defendants in a single white collar criminal indictment, let alone four. these cases, they take a lot of mental energy to devote to defending oneself, even if you're not devoting substantial time to your own defense. you have to be in courtrooms. even though the co-defendant, cheseboro, asked for a speedy trial, and the d.a., fani willis, said she's ready to go to trial in october, donald trump isn't going to do that. nobody i talked to thinks this is going to be the first or even the second case to go to trial among the four. but on monday, guys, in washington, d.c., there's going to be a hearing before judge tanya chutkan. she is going to set a trial date in the other election interference case brought by jack smith, and that's the one most people i talk to think may go to trial as early as next summer. donald trump is the only defendant. it's less complex. they're ready to go. so this is going to get real rather quickly. just back to the fulton county, the mug shot situation, i think what's so interesting about what happened last night is that, you know, the fulton county sheriff, an elected democrat, told our blayne alexander that he wasn't sure until the last minute, really, whether he was going to go forward with that mug shot. as you'll recall, in all the other bookings, two federal and one in new york, authorities determined that they didn't need to do a mug shot because the purpose of a mug shot is to, you know, be able to publicize a person's image if they flee. that wasn't going to happen here. besides, there are a million and a half photos of donald trump. so the federal government, the marshals use an existing photo. in the end, the fulton county folks decided to treat him like any other defendant in that respect, and that was what was so jarring about that procedure. the other bookings and arraignments took place in courthouses. this one was in the fulton county jail, a notorious jail that is, you know, the stuff of rap lyrics. it is under federal investigation. it is a nasty place where inmates have died under questionable circumstances. now, he wasn't in the cells, but, you know, he had to go through that place where there are signs saying, you know, "inmates this way," and he had to go through the indignities. i don't believe he actually was weighed. we're told that his staff filled out that form in advance, which is why he is listed at a height of 6'3", 215, which probably hasn't been since the school of finance, as he said there. a sobering moment, really different from the other cases. whatever happens in this fulton county case, this is the one he can't pardon himself on, that he has maybe less control of, and it's a bit of a wild card, guys. >> well, it was a very sobering moment. i mean, one of the few moments of levity provided by donald trump's staff, self-reported weight and height. i've stood next to him many times. i'm about 6'4". maybe he is 6'1". maybe he is 6'1 1/2", 6'2", but he is shorter. staff reported him at 6'3" and a fighting weight of 215. that would be like if my staff reported me, describe mr. scarborough's appearance. he looks like robert redford in 1974. wildly off. so i'm not going to tell you where the over/under is on donald trump's weigh-in, but it is a good, let's just say it's a good 70 or 80 pounds higher than what the staff reported. but, willie, i'm sure you would describe me as looking like robert redford in about '74. >> yeah. >> i don't know about donald trump at 215. >> the butch cassidy era. >> with or without the stash. >> i like the self-reporting of strawberry blonde hair. i thought it was a nice flourish, as well, instead of just saying blonde. >> strawberry blonde. >> he really went for it. >> he went there. >> he also, ken, used a bail bondsman, like anybody else would. foster bail bonds. you pay 10%. not sure what he paid, but it was in those ways, the ways you just described once you got through the motorcade and he got there, was pretty quick and routine in the way these things go. i'm curious about trial dates here, ken. kenneth cheseboro, one of the co-defendants and attorney for donald trump, put in a motion for a speedy trial, and d.a. fani willis said, how is october 23rd? let's get this going. how do we interpret that move? >> well, that was a, be careful what you wish for moment. fani willis is ready to go to trial. she's been investigating this thing for two years. presumably, they have not just investigated the case but prepared their trial strategy, considered their witness list. but here's the thing, donald trump is not going to go to trial in october. he is fighting. he doesn't want a speedy trial in this case. and a lot of legal experts i talk to fear that because of the number of defendants in this case in fulton county, it really could get bogged down. there is a racketeering case that fani willis is prosecuting right now, where it's taken eight months and they still haven't picked a jury. so, unfortunately, this office doesn't have a great track record of getting cases to trial quickly. and, you know, the lawyers in this one are going to take every opportunity, apparently except for mr. cheseboro, to slow things down. for mr. trump, delay is victory in all these cases. that's been his strategy. he's just hoping that he can just play this out long enough to somehow get elected president. even if he can't make this particular fulton county case go away, there's a good chance the justice department would say, "you cannot continue with a prosecution of a sitting president." meanwhile, he can make the other federal cases go away. we've been building toward this moment, but now it's really -- it's here, right? the choice for donald trump is get elected president or potentially go to prison. >> yeah, this is about his freedom at this point. nbc's ken dilanian, thanks so much, as always. let's bring in nbc news correspondent blayne alexander. she joins us this morning from in front of the fulton county jail, where the former president reported last night. good morning. what was it like there last night? >> reporter: willie, good morning to you. it was certainly very busy, very crowded, and very locked down with security. that's the best way to describe it. he entered through this gate that you see here behind me. i timed it. i was standing right in this very spot, saw his motorcade zoom past. he went in at 7:35, came out at 7:56. those were the times the motorcade came in and out of the gates. we're talking 21 minutes or so on the compound. less than 20 minutes inside the building. so when you consider the fact that, willie, if you or i or any other person were to be booked into the county jail here at fulton county, it can run from 12 hours or so to get in, get out, get fingerprinted, really go through much of the same process we saw from the former president last night. the fact that he spent less than 20 minutes inside the building is stunning. it shows just how expedited this process was. we were speaking with some people here who work inside the jail. they said this is the fastest booking they've ever seen, and understandably so. that's what happened on the inside. we know he took a mug shot, was fingerprinted. he also had his booking information entered. now, what was interesting is we actually saw the booking information pop into the system before the former president actually made it to the jail. so when you kind of look at that, we know that that also helped expedite the process. his height, weight, hair color, eye color, it was all entered before he got there. they just had to do the fingerprinting and other things inside the building. what security was like here outside, one saw it growing throughout the day. the street was blocked off. the jail itself was actually on lockdown, willie. they weren't letting anybody come in and be booked. intake itself was cleared, which is something you never see happen in a county jail. the fact that intake was cleared is also very stunning. really, all of the operations had to come to a halt in order for the former president to be booked in and out as quickly as he was, willie. >> blayne, trump's surrender came in advance of the noon deadline today. that's the deadline for all 19 co-defendants in the case to turn themselves in. earlier this morning, five others were book at the fulton county jail. former doj official jeffrey clark, georgia state senator shawn still, campaign staffer michael ronan, and attorney robert cheley. they were processed and released on bond. election supervisor misty hampton turned himself in, but it is unclear if she was released. clark is the most notable in the group. in the final weeks of the trump administration, the former president came close to naming him acting attorney general. that potential appointment was the subject of a tense oval office meeting, where other top justice department officials threatened to resign if he was installed as a.g. yesterday, trump's former white house chief of staff, mark meadows, and the former executive director of the group black voices for trump, harrison floyd, were also booked. meadows, who has petitioned to have his case moved to federal court, was released on $100,000 bond. a hearing on that matter is scheduled for monday. and floyd became the first co-defendant to not be released after being booked. that was because he did not have a preset bond agreement. a chicago woman who was once a publicist for kanye west and a lutheran pastor who is also from illinois are the last two co-defendants yet to surrender. blayne, we expect to see them before noon today. do you know anything about the person who is being detained right now or mark meadows' efforts to try and put everything off that seemed to be failing so far? >> reporter: yeah, mika, i'll start with mark meadows. what we saw really from him was the most vigorous pushback. one, to getting arrested, two, to having the charges be in fulton county. as yesterday played out, remember, a judge denied his motion, his request, rather, to stop the d.a. from arresting him. remember, he put out a filing. in that filing, we saw an email from the d.a.'s office to his attorneys, and it was pretty strongly worded. basically making it clear that if he wasn't here by friday at the deadline, she would not hesitate to issue arrest warrants to bring him into custody. she said the friday noon deadline was very generous, that he is no different than anybody else facing criminal charges, both in this case or in fulton county in general, and made it clear he had no choice but to come down and turn himself in. we got a heads-up a couple hours before he did. sure enough, he came down, turned himself in and was released very quickly thereafter. so where it stands in terms of moving it to federal court, that hearing will be monday, an evidentiary hearing. we'll see that monday. that'll give a sense of where things are going and how that case may turn out. as for what we're going to see at the fulton sheriff made it clear the co-defendants will all meet the friday noon deadline. they won't have to issue arrest warrants. they expect everyone to come down, surrender and turn themselves in, mika. >> all right. nbc's blayne alexander, thank you so much. we really appreciate your reporting. let's bring in now our panel. former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele. pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson. and justice legal affairs analyst, anthony colli. recently, he was spokesperson at the department of justice under merrick garland. michael steele, let's begin with you. here we are in august. we have a president that has been indicted four times. the number of charges, well, 13 in georgia, 40 in florida, 34 in new york, and 4 in d.c. so about 90 actual charges against the president. you know, i have so many people talking about this right now. they try to talk about the political side of it. they try to talk about what they heard on tv last night. they try to talk about what so-and-so's hot take was on twitter. you know, every lawyer i've talked to at this point says, the only question is, is donald trump going to do a deal, or is donald trump going to end up in prison? the only political question is, if he doesn't do a deal, a universal deal, and he ends up in prison, will the republican party nominate somebody and elect somebody while they're in jail, or will they choose a different path forward? it's pretty stark. again, these lawyers i talk to, again, republicans and democrats alike, you know, they say he can pose, he can preen, he can say whatever he wants to say. at the end of the day, the walls aren't closing in on him. the walls have closed in on him. he's got 90 indictments. even his biggest apologists legally have said, even one of those indictments could amount to a life sentence. >> yeah. i think that's all right on point. look, joe, we are where we knew we'd be. once this process started, you know. >> yeah. >> you've got people going, "oh, this moment." i'm sorry, i factored this moment in a long time ago because this is the natural course of how it should have gone once you started down the road in these four separate indictments of holding this president accountable. from my view, you know, watching yesterday the motorcades and the security, 80 motorcycles stationed, i'm sitting there going, he lost those privileges the moment this whole thing started to unravel. yet, we still try to keep him elevated on the same level as a barack obama or a george bush or former president. he's not. he is now an indicted individual. four times, 91 counts. he's got a mug shot. he's got an inmate number. he's not -- yeah, he is a former president, but he is a lot of other former things, too. and so i think the country now has to begin to contextualize all of this. the lawyers you cited are exactly right. the politics on this is exactly clear. we already know, joe, what the politics is. we're seeing it play out. jim jordan and his ilk are all on defense to protect and block and tackle for donald trump, to slow this process. because in their warped mind, donald trump wins next year, come hell or high water, the fix is in in state election boards and processes around the country are already setting it up. let's not be surprised and act like, oh, my god, we didn't see this coming. they've been telegraphing it and preparing for it for over two years now. so we know what they are doing on the ground in a lot of states, particularly key states like wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, shall i go on? we've heard these places before. right? let us stop being surprised by stuff and get in the game. and understand exactly what jim jordan and all the others are doing to set up 2024. and when that happens, we'll know how to deal with it because we'll have dealt with it before that moment. so this is -- this, for me, this mug shot, we knew donald trump was going to put it on a t-shirt. we knew what it was going to say. he's going to make his bling off him. he'll get his cash because that's what it's always been about. so let's factor it all in, you know, and marjorie taylor greene wants to take a mug shot of herself? don't worry, baby, your turn may come sooner than you think, all right? let's understand the moment beyond the shock and awe of it and recognize that the politics is in play. the legal system is doing what it should do. the american people now need to decide whether or not they want to put this man back in the white house. >> yeah. and, willie, it's a great point by michael steele. there's nothing to be shocked about here. it's something that we've been predicting on this show for a very long time, even before he ran for president. predicting that he would run for president in '24 to try to avoid the charges that were sure to come, especially after january the 6th. we had no idea what was going to be happening with the mar-a-lago documents case while we were saying those things, but, yes, if you steal nuclear secrets, try to steal elections in georgia, if you try to steal secret war plans against iran, then you start showing them after admitting they're classified documents and you shouldn't be showing them, this is inevitably what would happen to any other american. for those who were shocked, stunned and deeply saddened that this has happened, i guess the only question is, why do you think the rest of america has one set of laws we all live by and donald trump has another? because, clearly, at least in these four jurisdictions, he does not. >> if you try to lead an attempted coup against the united states government and overturn an election, turns out, there are consequences. we're at some accountability for that right now. let's not be surprised either by what republicans are doing right now, as michel says. jim jordan is demanding documents and everything fani willis has because he wants to sift through it and make sure it is good for him. she doesn't owe him that, but he'll pursue it like he did with alvin bragg. anthony, you worked under merrick garland in the justice department while is these investigations were going on. let's focus on fulton county, on georgia, and the mug shot we saw last night. if you had to rank these in terms of seriousness for donald trump -- they're all serious, let's be clear about that. >> yeah. >> but the peril in georgia feels pretty extreme here. >> that's exactly right. let's play this out. because, assuming he somehow returns to the white house, the georgia case is sticks, right? it is pardon proof. that's why this one poses the most critical thing against donald trump. i want to go back to something that michael steele just said. he says the legal system is working as it should. that's exactly right, it is working as it should. i think the reason we are seeing such a reaction online to this mug shot is because, willie, donald trump has got away with pushing the bounds of what is legal for so long. for decade after decade, he's done things that are untoward, and he's gotten away with it. this photo, this mugshot is a visible sign of the system working. i think for many people, millions of americans, we just thought that, we would let ourselves believe this guy could be facing the penalties and the consequences that he is now facing. >> yeah. i mean, it is accountability, that image right there. >> right. >> it's the beginning,ccountabi >> absolutely. >> from your former perch at justice, how does this all fit together now? we talk about these four major indictments, two from jack smith, one in manhattan and this one now in fulton downcounty. how does the next year, the next 18 months play out from your view? >> the thing i really appreciate about the georgia case is that we will all get to see it live, unfold on television. this is so important because, willie, we've seen so many lies, so much misinformation coming out from donald trump that the facts have got to remain front and center. the lie that i heard last night, and i just want to read it if i can, this is what donald trump told reporters after his booking. "when you challenge an election, you should be able to challenge an election." what he left out here is the appropriate venue to challenge elections are courts of law. >> they tried that and lost. >> some 60 times in georgia and across the country. >> yeah. >> they also had recounts, hand recounts in georgia. then what donald trump goes on to do is try to persuade conservative republican leaders in the state of georgia to go along with his elicit campaign. to their credit, they said, "no, we're not going to do this. we're going to put our country ahead of our party. we're going to stand for the rule of law, and we're going to stand for democracy." somebody mentioned jim jordan earlier. he could take -- that's a good example for him to follow, those conservative republicans down in georgia. they stood for what they believed in, and they ultimately did what was right. history is going to treat them well. >> eugene robinson, there is still a lot of concern in the days and months to come. the republican party has one problem, and that is how to deal with donald trump who is the frontrunner and, yet, trying to move forward with an election that can be won. secondly, for the country, donald trump keeps pushing these lies. he keeps drumming up anger. he keeps saying he did nothing wrong. it was a perfect call. it's not like anything is over because he's had his mugshot taken. and we have learned over the years that when donald trump says something, to believe him. i guess my question to you is, do you think he could push his supporters again to do things that are out of bounds? >> sure he could. i mean, let's be honest, he did it once. of course, he could do it again. i'm not predicting that he will, that he will try to do that. and it is kind of interesting that in the places where indictments have come down or he's had to be booked and charged, we haven't seen big ruckus, pro-trump crowds or many crowds at all really. that's not all due to strong, you know, strict security. people haven't showed up. that's just kind of an interesting point. that doesn't mean they wouldn't at some future date. but, you know, we really are going into uncharted waters here because the republican party right now does not have an alternative to donald trump as it looks ahead to the november election. you saw the debate the other night. you know, six of the eight people on the stage said, "well, yeah, even if he's convicted, you know, we'll still vote for him." if they're not going to run against him, to run against -- including running against the fact that he's now under four felony criminal indictments in four different jurisdictions for really serious crimes, if they're not going to run against that, he's going to win the nomination. it is an interesting question, will he be in jail at the time? it's almost certain that he is going to still be facing these legal perils at that time. you know, what does the party do then? i think the answer is the party just seems to be willing, the republican party seems to be willing just to go with this awful flow and put donald trump up as its candidate for president. >> michael steele, i want to follow up on something that was mentioned a few minutes ago. the lie that donald trump spewed yesterday. that, "hey, listen, i was only challenging an election, and you ought to be able to challenge an election in america." willie brought up the great point, you know, he challenged it the way you're supposed to challenge it first, which is through the court system. 63 times. he lost 63 times. in arizona, three, four, five recounts, he lost every one of them. the cyber nerds went out there. he actually lost by an even larger tally. you look at georgia. georgia had three recounts. three recounts. these are the ways you challenge an election. >> right. >> not by setting up conspiracy and trying to set up a fraudulent set of electors. each one of those electors representing millions and millions of votes that donald trump wanted to steal from the actual electors. and you look at, again, in georgia, what he did. he didn't go through the proper channels in georgia. when he did, when there were the three recounts, you didn't get in trouble for doing that. he got in trouble for calling the secretary of state, you know, one of his supporters, a republican, and leaning on him saying, "you have to steal enough votes for me, and you need to announce it to people, that you were able to steal enough votes for me to declare me the winner of the state of georgia." so this would be like you and me having a dispute over a car that a friend gave to both of us. you being in possession of the car. me saying, "that's my car," taking you to court. because i didn't like how the court decision came out, i stole the car from you. can't do it. or, in this case, to be more accurate, i had five of my dumbest friends go over to your home and try to steal the car while i stood there telling them what to, do and the cop car showed up. that's really a better metaphor for what happened with donald trump, when he tried to steal an american election. he didn't try to go through proper channels all the way to an end. at the end, he tried to steal the car and got caught. >> but what is important, joe, and i love that analogy, because i think for everyday folks, this is the part that is going to make the most sense about the rest of the story. a year before the cops showed up, you were telling everybody in the neighborhood, "that's my car, and i'm going to take it back." >> mm-hmm. >> "that's my car. it belongs to me. i own it, and i'm going to take it back." when you try the legal process, you go to the judge, and the judge says, "nope, it's his car. you can't do that," right? when you get on the phone with, you know, the repo man and say, "i need you to repo my car, because you're a friend of mine. i need you to do this," and he said, "i can't repo a car you don't own," right? "you don't have the title in any shape or form." that's what we're looking at here. donald trump a year before all of this began was telling us, if i lose this election, it's rigged. because i own this election. >> right. >> this is mine. i'm going to be president for as long as i want to be president. so, america, can i say to you, if you put the man back in office in january 2025, what the hell you think he is going to be trying to do the next four years? he's not going to say, "well, thank you for the four years, i'm ready to move on." >> right. >> he has enough role models globally to look at, to see how he can try to lock in the power. trust me, he is not going to have a bill barr in a.g. who is going to try to shut down the back-end process. he is not going to have, you know, people who are going to stand up to him in the fbi or any place else. he is going to put the sycophants in place who will nod and say, "yes, sir, how much of this do you want us to take for you?" that's what we need to understand here. >> exactly. >> he still thinks he owns the car. when the courts and the process has told him he doesn't. >> yeah. >> we'll be -- >> as chris christie said, he was going to be trying to do this from the summer of 2020. he was already starting to prepare people for this, the elections being rigged against me, because he thought he was going to lose. chris christie said that to me well before he was even thinking about running for president. mika, in case people are trying to keep up with this metaphor at home, donald trump is, of course, the person who is trying to steal the car. the repo man, brad raffensperger, secretary of state of the state of georgia. >> yeah. >> who refused to get the car because the guy asking him to repo the car didn't have the proper title and had three court rulings already against him in georgia. >> look, if anyone thinks that, for some reason, it is going to be different with trump and that, you know, they're believing trump's bravado, where when he shows up on right-wing talk shows, you just have to look at the whole vision of last night. of the entire secret service flying him in his plane to fulton county, then following him down the highway. god knows how much that cost in taxpayer dollars, by the way. he had to show up. because if he didn't show up, they would come and get him. he knew that. that mugshot is proof that the law is where things stop for donald trump, one way or another. he is dealing with consequences now. it may take time, as experts will say. the law works slowly. but it is now right in front of donald trump's face. he has to face it. he had to show up, and that's what we saw last night. it was a big moment and a sad moment for the nation. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll have much more in-depth analysis of donald trump's georgia arrest throughout the morning. plus, russian president vladimir putin is weighing in on the purported death of ally-turned-enemyprigozhin, and what he is saying about the wagner military chief. what we're learning about the plane crash that reportedly killed him. also ahead, a long-time republican strategist says if trump is the nominee and democrats and independents keep defecting, he is sunk and so is his party. we'll hear from karl rove's new piece. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. i'm your overly competitive brother. check. psych! and i'm about to steal this game from you just like i stole kelly carter in high school. you got no game dude, that's a foul! and now you're ready to settle the score. game over. and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, well, you could end up paying for all this yourself. so get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem, yeah, like me. thanks, bro. take a lap, rookie. real mature. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the subway series menu. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. for freeee. that's what i'm talking about. order in the subway app today. i 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infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. talk to your asthma specialist to see if once-monthly nucala may be right for you. and learn about savings at nucala.com there's more to your life than asthma. find your nunormal with nucala. live look at capitol hill at 41 past the hour. florida governor and republican presidential candidate ron desantis held a rally last night at the field of dreams baseball diamond in iowa and was asked about the contrast between how he was spending his night compared to trump. >> what do you think about this split screen, of you here in the field of dreams and former president trump being arrested in georgia? >> well, i'm glad i'm at the field of dreams. i'm happy to be here. >> wow, boom. wow. let me tell you something, that was drier than at a three-day-old bowl of grits, willie. a three-day-old bowl of grits. come on now. >> not a kevin costner performance out there in the field of dreams. >> no. why did he do that? >> not a james earl jones moment. >> oh, man. >> it reminds us of what we once were and what we might be again. i am here, and he is there. it is pretty. thank you. good night. >> you know, joe, i know you guys have had many of the similar conversations that i've had with republican friends and republican sources who, let's say, six months ago were sure he was the guy. they were going to move beyond donald trump. ron desantis won by 20 points in the state of florida, the key state. he's done a good job in their view, got them through covid, et cetera. he is the guy, and we're turning the page on donald trump. >> right. >> as this has gone s ago, they else is out there? maybe vivek. maybe glenn youngkin will descend from the heavens. >> a lot of people did watch. >> a lot of people did watch, but the level of disappointment from republicans who want to go somewhere beyond donald trump in ron desantis is now reached a, well, reached its peak, i would say. >> exactly. i will say this, willie, it was always fascinating to me that while people from 49 states were talking about how great ron desantis was and how he was going to be the great hope for the republican party, it's very fascinating that republicans in tallahassee, florida, that did not work for him, whenever i call them up and say, "what is he like," they'll be like, "kind of weird. kind of weird. don't know how he is going to do in those early states," because they had dealt with him. again, might lack the touch, let's just say. >> connection. >> yeah. you know, nobody predicted that he would point at a little girl and tell her she was killing herself while she was drinking a slurpee. >> oh. >> those are -- sometimes, we just get those special gifts from the political gods. but, yeah, some people are saying he can still win. i just -- i don't know. i don't see it. >> anything can happen. >> anything can happen. exactly. but let's talk really quickly, because mika brought this up. 13 million people, not trump levels, but 13 million people watched the debate. i will say, a lot more people were talking about it yesterday than i was expecting. >> yeah. >> yes. >> and a lot more people were talking about nikki haley. i know that in hard core republican circles, they like the fact that vivek was rude and insulted people. they thought that was really cool, and that he was petulant and he spouted conspiracy theories. a lot of people loved that. i think republicans that want to win elections and that sort of come from the republican party of ronald reagan, and when i was inspired to join the republican party, really impressed by nikki haley. >> i heard some of the same things. the people who like donald trump also liked vivek ramaswamy. they liked what they perceived as a combative style. he said climate change is a hoax and we should cut off all aid to ukraine. we could go down the list of conspiracy theories. and, by the way, he'd issue a preemptive party for trump in all this. perhaps that's why trump supporters knew that, and he pushed all the buttons. to your point, it was nikki haley, along with chris christie and mike pence to other degrees, who seemed like the adult in the room on that stage. perhaps she will get -- she's still way behind in the polls, as most of them are, but perhaps she will get another look from people looking for an alternative here. let's bring into the conversation nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali here in studio, doing a great job hosting "way too early." good to see you. >> thank you. treat to be here in person. >> yeah. let's talk about the debate. what are you hearing from your reporting on capitol hill? you know the private conversations we all have. maybe out loud they say they like donald trump, but behind the scenes, they're praying for an alternative for someone else to emerge. >> the prayers aren't being answered. the sense we had in watching it in milwaukee, and it was echoed by my conversations i was having over text and in person, it felt like everyone there was competing for the scraps while the guy who was at the front was eating at the main table. i think that it is really hard to have a debate that feels untethered from the reality of the polls and the state of the race. it is hard to take it seriously because trump is so far ahead. he doesn't have to face his opponents. some people said, look, it was a great thing for all those people because they weren't able to be deterred from their message by trump who sucks the oxygen out of the room. they were able to get a good look from the american public. fine. but there is still the reality that he is the person leading the pack. i do think the one thing i seized on, though, from the debate was something that florida governor ron desantis said at one point. he said, "well, this is not an election about january 6th." i don't think i could disagree more. because every conversation that i have leads back to the 2020 election, people who believe it was stolen, despite the fact that it wasn't, and the ways in which trump has been able to remake and remold the party around that. i know most of the people on the stage don't want to contend with january 6th because it is not politically expedient for them to go after donald trump or sell out the constitution, but it is very much a central premise of what is at stake here. it'll certainly be in the general, as we watched biden make that the centerpiece of 2020 and likely 2024. speaking of joe biden, in response to the first republican presidential debate, the biden/harris campaign out this morning with a new ad titled, "these guys." it highlights the issue of abortion, a topic candidates spent the most time actually discussing on wednesday night. here is a first look at that ad. >> reproductive health care decisions are among the most personal a woman will ever make. there are choices that should be made by you and your doctor, and the last people who should be involved are these guys. >> first of all, i'm the one that got rid of roe v. wade. >> florida governor desantis quietly signed into law one of the nation's strictest abortion bans. >> governor desantis, you signed a six-week abortion ban in florida. >> i believe in a culture of life. >> if i were president of the united states, i would literally sign the most conservative, pro-life legislation that they can get through congress. >> do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no, as a principle? >> the answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah, there has to be some form. >> president biden and vice president harris are determined to restore roe v. wade, and they will never allow a national abortion ban to become law. as long as they are in office, decisions about your body will be made by you, not by them. >> that spot will run for two weeks on digital, online, on your phone, in arizona, georgia, michigan, nevada, north carolina, pennsylvania, and wisconsin. obviously, ali, the issue of abortion was devastating to the electoral hopes of republicans in the midterm elections. it is going to be a big factor again coming up in 2024. those candidates on the stage the other night were all over the place. tim scott said, i want a federal law. we can in the allow abortion to be taking place in blue states either. basically making the case against federalism. >> yeah. when he said that he would sign literally the most conservative bill that he could find, that was in an interview with me. i at one point said, is that six weeks? he agreed that was on the table. even ron desantis, who signed that bill, says he was proud to sign it but signed it in the dead of night in florida. couldn't say on the debate stage that he wanted to sign a federal six-week ban. so all of them are being pushed to the right here. trump is perhaps one of the people who is a little bit more, we could say, liberal on this issue, though it is not liberal at all. but this is a problem that i hear about often from republican operatives. the fact you have to get through a primary on this issue, and you have to sell it for the evangelical voters that come out in mass, but then you have to pivot to a general, where this is a position that is out of step with the 6 in 10 americans who say that abortion should be safe or legal in most of all cases. and i was just in ohio two week ago when they did the referendum. the fact they had 3 million people come out in the dead of august for an election that was relatively spontaneously announced really is a blinking warning sign to republican operatives i talk to in washington who look at this as, maybe it is not a problem now, but it is definitely a problem six months from now. the thing i keep hearing, republicans are the dogs that caught the car on this, and now they're going to get run over by it electorally. >> and one group that understands this, one group of people, gene robinson, "wall street journal" editorial page writers. they have an op-ed today, or they have an editorial talking about nikki haley's gop debate truths. it says, if nikki haley gets a bump in the wo polls wednesday,e reason will be she respected viewers by telling the truth. the former south carolina governor insisted, brace yourself, in consensus policymaking. shouldn't we agree to ban late-term abortions? shouldn't we agree that contraception should be available? "the wall street journal" goes on to say, abortion advocates have one referendums last year in kansas by 18 points. michigan by 14 points. a state constitutional amendment going beyond roe v. wade. then the editorial board for "the wall street journal" goes on to say, her honesty then stopped there. donald trump added $8 trillion to our debt. you look at the '24 budget. republicans asked for $7.4 billion earmarked. democrats asked for $2.8 billion. then she told the truth about donald trump. we have to face the fact that donald trump is the most disliked politician in america. so just generally, "the wall street journal" really does nail it here, that it was nikki haley who actually told the truth, decided, hey, maybe i'll try this in the debate with all this crazy conspiracy theory talk goes on, and she did stand out. she gave a lot of older republicans a reason to hope. also, on the abortion issue, nikki haley is right. unless they figure out a consensus on abortion and get more in line with where the american people are, which really is somewhere, like, in europe, somewhere between 15 and 20 weeks, they're going to keep losing elections. nikki haley seems to be the only republican on the national stage that understands that. >> certainly the only one who is willing to sate. i mean, good for her. good for her that she -- >> good for her. >> -- recognized objective reality. however, right after that, wasn't it mike pence who said that consensus is the opposite of leadership or something like that? i don't quite understand that. >> that's bizarre. >> don't understand what it means in the context of how government works. how you get any piece of legislation through. there's got to be a certain level of consensus, and there is no consensus for these strict abortion bans that much of the republican base seems to want, or at least the candidates certainly think that's what the base wants. so they're going to keep giving it to 'em. this really is the issue on which i think the republican party -- one of the issues on which they fooled around and they're finding out that this is a powerful issue that is bringing people out in red states to vote for democrats and to vote for enshrining the right of right to apportion in state constitutions. >> yeah. >> and this could be a huge issue in a lot of states in 2024. abortion rights advocates are able to get the issue on the ballot. it is going to be a huge factor. >> nbc's ali vitali, thank you so much for coming on. thanks for doing "way too early" this morning. fantastic job. >> thank you. coming up on "morning joe," more of the coverage of yesterday's unprecedented moment in american history. donald trump's mugshot now cemented in the history books. how he's already trying to leverage it to his advantage. and what will happen next in his georgia case? 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ohhhhhh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ shingles. some describe it as pulsing electric shocks or sharp, stabbing pains. ♪♪ this painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks. a pain so intense, you could miss out on family time. the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. if you're 50 years or older, ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles. being middle class right now, it's tough making ends meet for sure. republicans in congress say if we just cut taxes even more for the biggest corporations the money will eventually someday trickle trickle down to you. right. joe biden would rather just stop those corporations from charging so damn much. capping the cost of drugs like insulin. cracking down on surprise medical bills and all those crazy junk fees. there's more work to do. tell the president to keep lowering costs for middle class families. ♪♪ it's a rainy day in new york city. the top of the hour for you. welcome back to "morning joe" on this friday, august 25th. michael steele is still with us. joining the conversation, we have staff writer at "the new yorker," susan glasser. for the first time in american history, a president of the united states has taken a mugshot. donald trump surrendered at the fulton county jail late yesterday, where he was given an inmate number and fingerprinted. trump was processed on 13 felony charges over alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election. the former president was released on $200,000 bond shortly after. he's now using his mugshot to solicit campaign donations. in his first post since his account was reinstated on x, formerly twitter, trump posted the mugshot and linked to his website. his campaign is also selling shirts that say, "never surrender," with the picture on it, even though that is exactly what he did in fulton county at the jail there. surrender, joe. >> yeah, he certainly did. susan, i'm curious your thoughts from everything you saw unfold last night. another historic night. >> well, that's right. i mean, you know, like it or not, this is an image for the history books. think about looking back to the images of the watergate conspirators. former chiefs of staff, now a former president of the united states. i look at that trump glower, the glare he throws at us. a man who thinks it is an advantage to be arrested and sent to jail, having to post a bond, having to put up actual cash. you know, he's playing, it seems to me, as always n a very narrow, tactical sense. "give me 1,000 dollars," win the news cycle moment. he's not winning the historical moment here. this is something we don't know the outcome of the election, we don't know how the cases are going to go, but we can be confident, this isn't going to end up well for him in the history books. >> no. and it's just my opinion, but i don't think it'll end up well for him legally or politically either. but, you are right, in this moment, the question is still in the air, how things are going to end up for a lot of people. you're right, if this were a different time, wednesday's debate might have concluded it was not a bad night for team normal. you talk about haley and christie delivering memorable zingers. team normal. i'm certainly hearing from a lot of republicans, team normal celebrating nikki haley and even some of the other people who pretend to be supporters of donald trump look at nikki haley's performance and say, "my gosh, could it be that the fever could break and we could return to what the republican party was before donald trump?" a lot of questions there about whether that will ever be possible. >> you know, joe, the idea that the fever could break, when the thing that nikki haley did is her arm shot right up there, you know, right after the question was asked, the key question of the debate, which was, "okay. but will you still support donald trump as the nominee for president if he wins the nomination and he has been a convicted felon?" nikki haley raised her hand. even mike pence, the former vice president whose campaign at this point is campaigning how he defied trump on january 6th, even he raised his hand. team normal, unfortunately, is not really team normal. i think that's the larger story of the republican party over these last few years. it's the extent to which the republican party's establishment is fatefully compromised. there's only a few people who made a real, decisive and actual break with trump. as far as we can tell, that is nowhere near a majority of the republican party that would be needed in order to really defeat trump for the nomination. nikki haley had a good night. her policy positions are very clearly those that you might associate with the pre-trump republican party. but, at the same time, she might not be advocating maga positions, but the key foundational question here is, are you going to support a convicted felon for president if he is your party's nominee? they all still are going right along with that. it's really -- i thought that was a remarkable moment. you know, it's a fantasy. it's a fantasy, the idea that team normal is just going to wake from the fever dream. >> six of the eight hands did go up, saying they would still support donald trump if convicted. only chris christie and asa hutchinson down at the end there did not raise their hands. let's bring in our legal panel. state attorney for palm beach county, florida, dave aronberg. mimi roca, attorney for new york. and lisa ruben, outside the courthouse in fulton county. lisa, i'll start with you at the courthouse in fulton county and what you saw last night. the former president of the united states, with great fanfare, with a motorcade and tracking with wall-to-wall media coverage, his plane landing and leaving. but he was really only in this for a few minutes, was booked, 6'3", 215 were the numbers provided by him. he was not measured and weighed. strawberry blonde hair in his description there on the booking sheet. what was it like to be around it last night? what do you see coming now? the mugshot is this first step. what lays ahead? >> reporter: you know, willie, let's talk first about what lays ahead. because on monday, we have one of the most decisive days in this case or any of the criminal cases against donald trump so far. i'm going to call it manic monday because we've got two major proceedings that will decide the when and where. first, in washington, d.c., where judge tanya chutkan will decide whether jack smith's case will be tried. that'll be the whole ball game in some respects. here on monday, we're also going to have mark meadows' removal hearing, where he makes a case for why this indictment in fulton county, georgia, should instead be moved to a federal district court, where he hopes to slow things down and get a more advantageous jury pool. right now, the fulton county courthouse looks quiet, and it was this way yesterday, as well, but it is deceptive. the amount of activity on the docket yesterday was fast and furious. you also know that ken these cheseboro, one of donald trump's co-defendants, got the speedy trial of 2023, and that had to be weighing on the former president's mind as he was booked yesterday, as he was fingerprinted, had that indelible mugshot taken. he had to be thinking about, oh, my, right now, that trial order is against cheseboro alone. he told the court he opposes it, but when this trial will take place against donald trump remains to be seen. fani willis and her team have shown they're ready to play, and soon. >> all right. more on that trial set for less than two months. a judge approved the speedy trial request of former trump attorney kenneth cheseboro. the trial date has been set for october 23rd. cheseboro is accused of orchestrating the scheme to ele. his next court date is an arraignment scheduled for september 6th. d.a. fani willis initially proposed the october date for all 19 defendants in the case, including trump. that triggered a motion from trump's attorney, requesting his case be severed from cheseboro and any defendant asking for a speedy trial. the judge advised that, at this time, he would only expedite the trial date for cheseboro. dave aronberg, how do you see this, the timing of all these trials unfolding? obviously, trump's only real ability to run from the law, at least in the state of georgia, is to delay. >> good morning, mika. i think the case in d.c., in front of judge chutkan, is going to go first. she seems to want to go on the rocket docket. the rico case in atlanta, i think it'll be delayed, except for cheseboro, because it is a complex, 19-person case involving rico. don't expect that to go anytime soon. now, fani willis, my counterpart up there, mimi's counterpart in fulton county, she called bluff for cheseboro, setting the trial for october 23rd. the other 18 defendants will probably have their cases severed. the reason cheseboro did this, he is betting that willis' team will not be ready to try this complex case in a short order. but it is likely that the prosecutors are going to be more prepared than cheseboro's team. remember, they've been doing this for 2 1/2 years. fani willis said this trial, this case was going to be imminent back in january. in the last several months, she's been getting new evidence. she's been getting new witnesses to flip. they're going to be more prepared, i think, at trial than cheseboro and his lawyers will. >> yeah. you know, mimi, there are so many questions to ask here about what you would do if you were an attorney managing all of donald trump's cases, all of donald trump's attorneys. i don't know that many viewers understand just the great weight, the great burden that is on a defendant if they have one federal count against them. one state count against them. donald trump has 91. despite his bravado and bluster, that is pretty crushing for him. so, you know, cheseboro is talking about moving quickly in georgia. i'm wondering how quickly jack smith can move. you know, he's talking about a january case. what do you expect on monday? that may be the most significant hearing we have as far as setting a date in that case that should be able to move pretty darn quickly. >> yeah, joe, i agree with what lisa said at the top of this segment. in some ways, monday is the whole ball game. i do think in federal court in general, things can move quickly if they are streamlined. and as we've said before, jack smith did this indictment, you know, built for speed. and i think the judge has shown there that she's going to keep this process moving. she has no interest in dragging this out, not for any improper reason, but because that's how that courthouse moves. that's how the indictment is ready to go. i think that the, in some ways, my eye is still really on the federal indictments. i'm not saying georgia isn't important, but i just think that's going to be a longer game here. i think the federal indictment is incredibly serious and is going to end up going first, is my guess. best educated guess. >> so, lisa, i think a lot of people last night when they heard that kenneth cheseboro wanted his case effectively severed, or the motion for a speedy trial, and fani willis said, october 23rd, let's start now, clearly, she's ready to go. people wondered, what does ma mean for donald trump? does it mean the 19 co-defendants could potentially have separate trials, that one could start in october, though most people don't believe it could start that soon, and donald trump's could be a year from now or even more? >> reporter: you know, willie, the judge is going to have to weigh the efficiency of trial against the interest of each individual defendant. fani willis will probably make an argument before him, that notwithstanding the fact that kenneth cheseboro has demanded a speedy trial, there is no efficiency to be gained for the judicial system or for her office, which has lots of other cases on its docket, by trying one of 19 co-defendants by themselves. now, donald trump has interposed a motion saying he wants to sever his case, but he hasn't formally achieved a severance yet. all we know is that the judge at this time only plans to try cheseboro. i think he is intending to hear from others. will others be prepared to go to trial? the fact that there is an october 23rd date for at least one defendant also increases the pressure on certain of the other co-defendants who might be thinking about whether this is the time to cooperate. that is time pressure on them now they didn't have a few days ago. certainly for the jenna ellises of the world and the minor co-defendants here, they might be thinking about, if i can't sever my case, i can't show that i would be prejudice by having to go to trial in october, am i better off pleading out, lowering my legal costs, and either lowering my criminal exposure overall by trying to cut a deal with fani willis and her team now, willie? >> there is so much going on. the house judiciary committee is launching an investigation into fulton county district attorney fani willis, questioning her, quote, motivations for prosecuting former president donald trump. house judiciary chairman, republican jim jordan of ohio, sent a letter to willis yesterday demanding information related to her investigation and indictment of former president trump and his associates for their role in trying to overturn the 2020 election. specifically, jordan asked for information related to willis' probe, including whether she coordinated any of her efforts with special counsel jack smith. he says congress has an interest in such activity, that it falls under the committee's oversight. also in the letter, jordan demands willis turn over several batches of materials, including all documents and communications between the fulton county d.a.'s office and the doj regarding the case, and the receipt and use of federal funds. the request from jordan is similar to the one he made of manhattan district attorney alvin bragg shortly after bragg brought charges against trump earlier this year. the fulton county district attorney's office declined to comment. joe, what makes this, i mean, laughable to some extent, we are talking about cases in which donald trump admits or is heard on tape to a lot of what he is accused of. whether it is alvin bragg or the fani willis case. >> yeah. michael steele, i've got to say, with all the energy they use in gesturing, engaging in the politics of gesture, you wonder how they have time to legislate. [ laughter ] >> yeah, joe, you're a funny man. these fools aren't legislating. they haven't legislated in, oh, my gosh, they're still trying to figure out the -- >> but, i mean, this is all gesturing, though, michael, though, right? >> yes! >> this is all gesture. >> of course, joe. of course it is. there's not a serious member among them. they're not looking to counter propose to president biden's infrastructure or inflation legislation. you know, republicans got bored with that and moved on. when it comes to the politics of drama and the politics of reality tv, that's the space that a jim jordan is good in. that's the space. tell me one serious hearing this man has held since he's been chair or ranking member. i mean, so the reality of it is, this is the block and tackle portion of our program. fani willis has done what she should do. jim jordan knows damn well he has no jurisdiction here but, you know, most americans don't know that, so he throws up paper and goes, "oh, you know, you have to tell me everything you're doing, and i got to make sure you're not" -- you know, and people go, "oh, this is serious." no, folks, it's not serious. this is obstruction. he has no interest in this case. it doesn't involve his committee. there is no oversight here. show me in the rules of the house where it says that the chairman of the judiciary committee has a direct interest in the prosecution of a local state felony case. they don't have it. so let's, again, pull the lens back. bring the noise down, and understand what is playing out here. this is all about the donald trump protection racket that the gop has stuck themselves in and now don't want to get out of. as was rightly noted, all but two said that if the man is standing there in leg irons, in an orange jump suit, having been convicted under the color of law for his crimes, they would still put him behind up for president of the united states. america, that's all you need to know. that's all you need to know. >> yeah, even if he were convicted of trying to steal an election in georgia or tried to steal nuclear secrets, america's nuclear secrets, and refused to return them. i want to go to our two active prosecutors. mimi and dave, like for you guys to just chime in on something that lisa said. she was talking about the possibility of some of these defendants trying to move as quickly as they can, to strike a deal, maybe get a better deal, and also to limit legal costs. i talked about the emotional burden that there has to be. there has to be a tremendous emotional burden to have one count against you in federal or state court. dave aronberg, you work in this area every day. talk about just the tremendous cost that criminal defendants, especially white collar criminal defendants, have to, you know -- the checks they have to write to lawyers. you look at somebody like cheseboro. you look at somebody like jenna ellis. you look at some of the minor players even on the, you know, the county level that tried to get involved in the fake elector scheme. how do, for instance, kathleen latham, scott hall, misty hampton, these people we really haven't heard of, how do they afford their legal bills? if they don't afford their legal bills, is that one reason we might see them moving quickly, as lisa suggested, to try to get this case behind them? >> joe, i think it was part of fani willis' strategy in indicting 19 people, that some of them would flip and she wouldn't have to go to trial against all 19. look, rico cases are very expensive to defend, and they're trying to crowdsource the money, raise money online, and some of them are doing so. but they're all charged with rico, all 19. no matter how big or small their involvement in the scheme, it is a daunting task, intimidating. i expect a bunch of them to flip. to go at what you were saying about jim jordan, mimi and i are active prosecutors, joe, and jim jordan, it is rich that he is sending out, you know, demands for information and subpoenas to prosecutors, when he didn't comply with his own subpoena from the january 6th committee. you know, he needs to learn a little thing about separation of powers, you know. he is trying to get involved in an executive branch investigation, a prosecution, when he has nothing to do with it. that's one of the things that's great about this job we have as prosecutors, joe, is that jim jordan is not our boss. this is exactly what you said, it is performance art. it is a gesture. when he says, "hey, i want to find out if you coordinated with jack smith," really? we're state prosecutors. we work with federal prosecutors all the time. i had a meeting with the feds yesterday. so, yes, you can find out that we actually spoke with other federal counterparts. like, what a shock, the moon is not actually made out of cheese. you know, this is a pathetic act of sycophancy. >> mimi, circle back on the cost of rico cases. rico cases for people that, unlike donald trump, can't scam followers out of hundreds of millions of dollars for defense funds. >> yeah. i mean, look, any criminal case is expensive to defend. it's not like you're just paying your lawyer every time they have a court appearance. you're paying your lawyer to prepare for trial, to review, you know, the many, many voluminous documents in discovery, and to try and find out what witnesses said and who is going to testify against you. i mean, it's hours and hours and hours of work. most lawyers get paid by the hour. so it is expensive. it is costly. we're focused on it now in this high-profile case, but what is so remarkable to me about all of these cases is, as you pointed out, these are things that people face every day around the country in state court, in federal court. people, ordinary people who don't have money, who can't afford lawyers. now, we're seeing it with this, you know, very elite group of people, and so we're all talking about it. but it's highlighting an issue that is out there for people every single day. i as a prosecutor am cognisant of it, as i know dave and other prosecutors are. when you bring charges against someone, that is a powerful, powerful thing to do, just the act of bringing charges. so you do it with the seriousness that it deserves. i am sure, as you've said, that these defendants are feeling the weight of that. some of them may plead out. people do plead out sometimes because they want to get out from under the costs and the burden of a trial. but some of them will go to trial, i'm sure. >> geez. >> and, you know, it's just fascinating, as someone who has been doing this for almost 20 years, to see something so ordinary play out in such a high-profile way, and have the country focused on the seriousness of this thing we call criminal justice. >> westchester county new york district attorney mimi roca and state attorney for palm beach, florida, dave aronberg, and political analyst lisa rubin, thank you, all, very much for coming on. susan glasser, final word for you. what will you be looking for now in all these cases in the days to come? >> well, i think the idea that we have this incredible convergence between the campaign and the courtroom, already, we're looking at, you know, with 18 co-defendants of trump in georgia, they're all going to be filing motions. some of them will try to get themselves severed. trump will, as well. how much does it matter to republican voters at this point that donald trump's campaign essentially is simply to talk about his legal cases again and again and again? i think that's -- you know, is there any impact at all of the cumulative nature of having 91 counts against you? that's as much the key to this as the debate the other night, i think. >> susan, thank you so much for being on this morning. we'll be looking for your new piece online now for "the new yorker." and still ahead on "morning joe," more unanswered questions about the presumed death of wagner mercenary chief yevgeny prigozhin, as russian president vladimir putin weighs in for the first time on that. plus, one of our next guests is taking a page from "succession's" logan roy in reacting to this week's gop debate. arguing, the candidates are just not serious people. msnbc's mehdi hasan joins us in our fourth hour to discuss that. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up ♪ ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements at 4 weeks. skyrizi is the first and only il-23 inhibitor for crohn's that can deliver both clinical remission and endoscopic improvement. the majority of people on skyrizi achieved long lasting remission at 1 year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. 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shingles. welcome back to "morning joe." it's almost 7:30. happy friday. hope you have weekend plans that will get you out of the office, out of work. this weekend, if you're in d.c., there's an incredible event, a historic event to go to. final preparations are going on right now in washington, as thousands are expected to gather in the nation's capitol tomorrow for the 60th anniversary of the 1963 march on washington. a coalition of 60 national organizations across racial, cultural and generational and religious lines will par tis participate, as they join forces at the lincoln memorial. they'll celebrate progress that they have made, that we have made, that america has made that achieve dr. martin luther king jr.'s dream. and to highlight the work still needed to bring about peace, justice and equity. let's bring in right now the president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. the ceo of the antidefamation league, jonathan greenblatt and waters king, she along with her husband, martin luther king iii, are the co-leaders of the drum major institute. a nonprofit community action group founded by dr. king. rev, just an extraordinary lineup. tell us about it. >> well, when andrea and martin and i talked about doing the commemoration, we said it really was a continuation. because we have seen in the last several months hate crimes go up against blacks, against jews, against asians, against latinos, against lgbtq. we've seen affirmative action pretty much suspended. women's right to choose pretty much suspended. so rather than have a commemoration, this is to continue and to face the challenges today that dr. king and others faced 60 years ago. they did not do it alone, so we reached out to jonathan greenblatt, who said, "oh, i'll co-chair it," and we brought in the latino community and lgbtq. and andrea waters king, who has been the brain trust of this, said, wait a minute, women didn't speak 60 years ago. not only are we speaking, i'm co-leading this. she convenes us when we're too tired to be convened. we are showing the next steps that needs to be confronted. it cannot be confronted unless we're all together and we are sharing across racial and gender and sexual lines who we are. we're going to show on the mall tomorrow what america stands for. when you see us march from the lincoln memorial to the king memorial, i want you, joe, to contrast what we do tomorrow with what happened january 6th. we're going to show americans how you can be outraged about an issue but still keep your dignity and discipline. >> yeah, and, jonathan, talk about the importance of you being there, the antidefamation league, the incredible alliance that you and reverend al have brought together. we hear you all time and time again speaking out over the past several years against anti-semitism. also, of course, you know the history, even 60 years ago, it was a lot of jewish-americans who were standing shoulder to shoulder with their black brothers and sisters, not only during this march, but during the civil rights movement. >> you're 100% right, joe. i think the black and jewish communities have different histories, if you will, be shared experiences. we once were slaves, too. we both experienced marginalization and trauma, and the same forces of white nationalism, the same forces of evil that came for those nine worshippers in charleston came for 11 worshippers in pittsburgh. and so our communities have a long history. i mean, i'm proud of the fact that ben epstein, who was the head of adl in 1963, stood on the stage of the lincoln memorial. there were many jewish people in the audience. it is a privilege for me to be there tomorrow with the rev, with andrea and with martin iii. again, that alliance, that relationship between black and jewish people continues. you will have jewish people of all denominations. you'll have jews of all color, all there tomorrow, continuing the pursuit of the dream. >> andrea, congratulations on putting this together. 60 years later, i'm reminded that it took less than a year after the march on washington before the civil rights act was signed into law by president johnson. what are the challenges right now that you see six decades later? yes, we've made so much progress in all that time, but what work still lays ahead in your view? >> well, we have seen progress, but we've also seen in recent years regression. we've seen the women's rights to choose being taken away. we've seen voting rights, the crowning achievement of the civil rights movement, actually being erased. we've seen attacks on history. in 1823, it was illegal to teach an enslaved person to read. here we are in 2023, and it's almost illegal to teach about enslaved people. we've seen hate crimes on the rise. in a very real sense, we've seen the triple evils that martin luther king jr. talked about, of racism and bigotry, violence. we've seen gun violence. our children now are, you know, going back to school. they're having tornado drills and fire drills but also active shooter drills in this country. we've seen poverty on the rise. we're really at a point in time where, in a very real sense, oppression is being legislated. a lot of the attitudes and beliefs that i used to monitor and research when we worked on the ku klux klan and neo-nazi under reverend c.t. vivian, i'm seeing 25 years later a lot of these philosophies being codified and pass into laws all across our country. >> you know, one of the things that is important is that when dr. king and others marched 60 years ago, it was unity among those legacy organizations. it wouldn't have happened without the oldest civil rights organization authority in the country, and that was the naacp, led by roy wilkins at this time. tomorrow, derek johnson, who leads it now, and the organization is even stronger, is part of the leadership and will be speaking and has helped to guide us. thank you for coming on with us for this call. talk about the importance of dealing with not only a march tomorrow, which is a call to action like the march was 60 years ago, but the follow up for legislation and real systemic change that you emphasize not only in all our meetings but in casual phone conversations. you say substance without symbol, rev, is not going to get us there. >> no, the end of the day, elections have consequences. as we gather tomorrow, we're going to leave that march recruiting volunteers for the elections. i am proud to watch the d.a. in fulton county, what she is doing. she got in office as a result of the elections. we're sad with what we see with the former president, but he got into office because of the elections. this march initiates for the naacp, for all our partners, our march to the polls for november 2024. it is absolutely important that we do that. we've had over 1.2 million individuals who had their student loans completely forgiven as a result of the 2020 elections. we've seen a justice department go after individuals and bad actors across the country. that's a result of the 2020 election. we must stand up tomorrow in solidarity to commemorate what took place 60 years ago. but as we prepare for the election in 2024. >> reverend al, michael steele here. i'm so locked in on this moment for a host of reasons. you and i have, as people know, been on the battlefields many times, but we've stood shoulder to shoulder when it comes to a moment like this. as african-american men, we recognize the importance of why our voices in the context of the conversation is necessary. when you think about the action tomorrow, which is the march, and you think about, it was just referenced, the upcoming election, you have a lot of americans who i still think don't get that connection. they've almost been disconnected from what happened on the mall 60 years ago, because they actually, to be honest, we sat back and allowed the disintegration of voting rights, the stripping away of health care rights for women, the prosecution of lgbtq. it's almost like, well, it's them, not me. how do you connect americans, not just to the symbolism of the march tomorrow and the recollection of 60 years ago, recounting dr. king's words, but actually make this real for the american people now and understanding not just what you may lose, but what you've already lost. not in the last, you know, over 60 years but the last few years. >> when you look at the fact, and i tell people this every day, as does jonathan, as does anndrea, as does derrick, that we are all outraged at losing affirmative action, losing women's right to vote. for everyone in our community that said there's nothing to vote for in 2016, you put those three conservative justices on the supreme court. you are the ones that decided that it was all right for trump to become president, if you went around with the myth that there was no difference between hillary and trump. the difference was the supreme court. the difference was 200 federal judges. the difference was, as derrick referenced, fani willis became the d.a. and alvin bragg in new york. so, at the same time, it is a process that is frustrating sometimes in that it is a step by step process, you cannot allow them to push backward because they take advantage of that. what we've got to do at not only the march but in the follow-up is tell people, we have got to keep our eye on the prize and our hand to the plow, because they take advantages of going back. we don't agree on everything. there are tensions in some of the community, but we need to understand that we have more in common, working with jonathan greenblatt, working together because they're after all of us. the moment we get into internal squabbles rather than move forward, they take advantage of our division. >> reverend al sharpton, thank you so much. of course, you will have much more on tomorrow's march on "politics nation" tomorrow. also, your exclusive interview with vice president kamala harris. that's tomorrow at 5:00 eastern, right here on msnbc. president and ceo of naacp, derrick johnson. ceo of the antidefamation league, jonathan greenblatt and president of the drum major institution, arndrea waters king, thank you, all, very much, as well. we appreciate your coming on this morning. up next, vladimir putin breaks his silence on the death of a long-time ally who led a brief rebellion against the russian president's leadership this summer. we'll have the very latest for you. that's next on "morning joe." trying to control my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ enough was enough. i talked to an asthma specialist and found out my severe asthma is driven by eosinophils, a type of asthma nucala can help control. now, fewer asthma attacks and less oral steroids that's my nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help 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manufacturing jobs are coming home. high-speed computer chips are getting made right here. america is leading the world in clean energy. there are some who say america is failing. not joe biden. he believes our best days are ahead. because he believes in the american people. those who bet against america are learning how wrong they are. it's never, ever been a good bet to bet against america. never. i'm joe biden and i approve this message. we're back at 7:46 on the east coast. russian president vladimir putin responded to the reported death of his long-time ally turned challenger, yevgeny prigozhin. american officials suspect prigozhin's death was an assassination. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel has the latest. >> reporter: the u.s. believes russian mercenary leader yevgeny prigozhin was likely on this plane when it suspiciously crashed outside moscow on wednesday, and that he is dead. british officials are calling it very likely. but what exactly brought down the plane is still a mystery. two u.s. officials said intelligence gathered so far points to sabotage, with one official saying, a leading theory is that an explosive was placed on board. although they can't say with certainty. u.s. officials are convinced this was no accident. but payback for prigozhin's mutiny two months ago, when he dared to lead a column of mercenaries toward moscow and challenge russian president putin's grip on power. while many suspect he ordered the hit, putin said russian investigators still need time to learn all the facts. he offered his sincere condolences and described prigozhin as a talented businessman but who also made serious mistakes in his life. the pentagon says there's no indication that the jet was hit by a surface-to-air missile, that the heat signature of a launch wasn't detected. russian aviation officials say they've recovered the remains of the ten people on board, some so disfigured, identification is difficult. >> whatever happened at 28,000 feet was catastrophic in nature, and it basically knocked the airplane out of the sky. >> reporter: this morning, new images were posted on russian social media showing the wing that was ripped from the plane in mid flight, reportedly found nearly 2 miles from the crash site. the kremlin has, so far, made no mention of prigozhin's mutiny, but the message seems clear without it. if you challenge putin, this is the price. >> nbc's richard engel reporting for us there. we'll be right back with a look at some of the stories making front pages across the country on this friday morning. i have active psoriatic arthritis. but with skyrizi to treat my skin and joints, i'm feeling this moment. along with clearer skin skyrizi helps me move with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. and is just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or 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"the chicago tribune" reports temperatures reached 100 degrees yesterday making it the hottest day in 11 years. the extreme heat forced school closures and the cancellation of outdoor activities keeping many residents indoors. chicago experienced a heat index of 118 degrees, tying the record for the warmest heat index ever recorded at o'hare international airport which was set in 1995. and in new york, "the times" union leads with a push to require computer science courses in high school. the state's board of regions is considering allowing students to meet their math class requirements by taking robotic programming or coding classes instead of more traditional courses like algebra and geometry. officials say computer science accomplishes the same goals with other math classes which is understanding patterns. interesting. coming up on "morning joe," former president donald trump arrested and booked in georgia. this mugshot already being used to solicit campaign donations, but it doesn't deny the reality that's going on. plus, we'll break down what's next in the legal process for trump and his 18 co-defendants as the deadline to surrender is just hours away. also ahead, the biden/harris 2024 re-election campaign releases a new ad in response to the topic that was talked about most during the first republican primary debate earlier this week. we'll show it to you. 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(psst psst) flonase. all good. every businesst psst) that's why comcast business de is launching theal. mobile made free event. with our business internet, new and existing customers can get one year of unlimited mobile for free. it's our best internet. powered by the next generation 10g network and with 99.9% reliability. plus one line of free mobile for an entire year. it's the mobile made free event-happening now. get started for just $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get one free line of unlimited mobile. comcast business, powering possibilities. you've done a fantastic job. i have to tell you, a fantastic job, but that's a very sad experience, and it's a very sad day for our country. >> donald trump talking about his arrest last night in fulton county. he's now officially inmate number p0185509. we'll have all the developments out of georgia. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, august 25th. for the first time in american history, a former president of the united states has taken a mugshot. donald trump surrendered at the fulton county jail yesterday where he was given an inmate number and fingerprinted. he was weighed. trump was processed on 13 felony charges over alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election. the former president was released on $200,000 bond shortly after, and he's now using his mugshot to solicit campaign donations in his first post since his account was reinstated on x, formerly twitter. trump posted the mugshot and link to his website. his campaign is also selling shirts that say, never surrender with the picture on it. even though that's exactly what he did at the fulton county jail, surrender. joe? >> yeah. willie, obviously the view of any ex-president with a mugshot, deserved or not is certainly jarring. i'm curious, what are the papers in new york and across the country showing? >> it is jarring. we knew it was coming, but to see it of any president, this president, it is. it's incredibly striking and for a man who grew up in these tabloids in new york city, who trafficked them his entire life, whether it was celebrity stuff, his tv shows, women, or business, here he is now on the front page of newspaper he's been in for most of his life. the "new york post," no headline. just the mugshot of fulton county, georgia on 13 felony charges. here's the new york "daily news." enemy oi democracy showing that mugshot as well. >> it is jarring. mika, you -- you look through everything that happened yesterday, and how he ended up last night. again, i guess it's predictable he's going to end up on a positive show talking about how he's the victim of things. i'll just say there's a lot of ground noise out there, a lot of chaos. a lot of people talking and chattering. the signal, what matters the most is what happens with the law, what happens inside the courtroom, and i've got to say, again, just every attorney that's ever practiced, that i've ever talked to looks at all the counts that are brought against him, and i just -- >> yeah. >> i've yet to find one that doesn't say, he's going to get convicted on one of these charges and likely going to end up in jail unless he pleas out. >> yeah. let's bring in nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. ken, obviously the headline is the mugshot, the booking, the surrendering, but what's next? what are the legal maneuvers next? what are the dates to look for, and what exactly is this former president facing especially with all the other different trials and indictments that he's dealing with? but in fulton county, there are so many different co-defendants, so many different mugshots, so many different screaming headlines, but as joe points out, what's the main -- what's the main issue here facing this former president? >> well, the main issue is to joe's point, the avalanche of criminal charges, the dizzying array of proceedings. it's hard for people to get their arms around this. most of us have never been defendants in a single white collar criminal indictment, let alone four. these kinds of cases, they take a lot of mental energy to devote, to defending oneself even if you are not devoting substantial time to your own defense. you have to consult with your lawyers. you have to be in courtrooms. now, look. this fulton county case, even though co-defendant kenneth chesebro has asked for a speedy trial, and the d.a. willis said she's ready to go to trial in october, donald trump's not going to do that, and nobody i talked to thinks this is going to be the first case or even the second case to go to trial among the four, but on monday, guys, in washington, d.c., there's going to be a hearing before judge tanya chutkan, and she's going to set a trial date in the other election interference case brought by jack smith, and that's the one most people i talk to think may go to trial as early as next summer because donald trump's the only defendant. it's less complex. they're ready to go, and so this is going to get real rather quickly, and just back to the fulton county -- the mugshot situation, i think what's so breg about what happened last night is, you know, the fulton county sheriff, an elected democrat told blaine alexander he wasn't sure until last minute whether he was going to go forward with that mugshot because as you recall in all the other bookings, two federal and one in new york, authorities determined they didn't need to do a mugshot because the purpose of a mugshot is to, you know, to be able to publicize a person's image if they flee. that wasn't going to happen here. there's a million and a half photos of donald trump. they thought of using an existing photo. in the end, they decided to treat him like any other defendant in that respect, and that was what was so jarring about that procedure. the other bookings and arraignments took place in courthouses. this one was in the fulton county jail, a notorious jail that is, you know, the stuff of rap lyrics. it's under federal investigation. it's a nasty place, where inmates have died under questionable circumstances. now he wasn't in the cells, but, you know, he had to go through that place where there are signs saying, you know, inmates this way, and he had to go through the indignities. i believe -- i don't believe he actually was away. we're told his staff filled out that form in advance which is why he's listed at a height of 6'3" and 215 which he probably hasn't been since the wharton school of finance. a sobering moment different from the other cases and whatever happens in this fulton county case, this is a reminder he can't pardon himself on this, and he has maybe less control of this, and it's a bit of a wild card, guys. >> it was a very sobering moment. i mean, one of the few moments of levity provided by donald trump's staff, self-reported weight and height. i've stood next to him many times. i'm about 6'4." maybe he's 6'1," but he ended up at a fighting weight of 215. that would be like if my staff reported me, describe mr. scarborough's appearance. he looks a lot like robert redford in 1974. wildly, wildly off. so i'm not going to tell you where the over/under is on donald trump's weigh-in, but it's a good -- let's just say it's a good 70 or 80 pounds higher than what the staff reported, but willie, i'm sure you would describe me as looking like robert redford in about '74. >> yeah. butch cassidy, right in there. >> with or without the mustache? >> i like you with the stash, and also the self-reporting of strawberry blond hair. i thought that was a nice flourish instead of just saying blond. >> strawberry blond. oh my god. >> he really went for it. he also -- he also juiced a bail bondsman like anybody else would. fosters in lawrenceville, georgia where he paid 10%. his bond was $200,000. not exactly sure what he paid, but it was in those ways, the ways you describe, once you got through the motorcade and he got there, and it was pretty quick and routine in the way these things go. i'm curious about trial dates because kenneth chesebro, one of the co-defendants and attorney for donald trump asked -- put in a motion for a speedy trial and fani willis said, sure. how's october 23rd? let's get this thing going. how do we interpret that move? >> well, that was a be careful what you wish for moment. fani willis is ready to go to trial. she's been investigating this thing for two years. presumably they have not just investigated the case, but prepared their trial strategy, considered their witness list, but here's the thing. donald trump is not going to go to trial in october. he's fighting. he doesn't want a speedy trial in this case, and a lot of legal experts i talked to fear that because of the number of defendants in this case in fulton county, it really could get bogged down. there's a racketeering case that fani willis is prosecuting right now where it's taken eight months and they still haven't picked a jury. so this -- unfortunately this office doesn't have a great track record of getting cases to trial quickly, and the lawyers in this one, apparently except for mr. chesebro to slow things down. for mr. trump, delay is victory in all these cases and that's been his strategy. he's just hoping he can play this out long enough to somehow get elected president. even if he can't make this particular fulton county case go away, there's a good chance that the justice department would say you cannot continue with the prosecution of a sitting president. meanwhile, he can make these cases go away. we have been building towards this moment, but now it's really -- it's here. where the choice for donald trump is get elected president or potentially go to prison. >> yeah. this is about his freedom at this point. nbc's ken dilanian. ken, thanks so much as always. let's bring in blaine alexander. she joins us this morning from in front of the fulton county jail where the former president reported last night. what was it like there last night? >> reporter: well, willie, good morning to you. it was certainly very busy, very crowded, and very locked down with security. that's the best way to describe it. he entered through this gate you see right here behind me. i timed it. i was standing right in this very spot, saw his motorcade zoom past. he went in at 7:30, and came out at 7:56. those are the times the motorcade came in and out we're talking about 21 minutes. less than 20 minutes inside the building. so when you consider the fact that willie, if you or i or any other person were to be booked into the county jail here at fulton county, it can run anywhere from 12 hours or so to get in, get out, get fingerprinted and go through much of the same process we saw from the former president last night. the fact we saw he spent less than 20 minutes inside the building is stunning. it shows how expedited this process is. we spoke with people inside the jail and they said, this is the fastest booking they've ever seen, and understandably so. that's what happened on the inside. we know that he took a mugshot. we know he was fingerprinted and he had his booking information entered. now what was interesting is we actually saw the booking information pop into the system before the former president actually made it to the jail. so when you kind of look at that, we know that that also helps expedite the process that his height, weight, hair color, eye color, all of that was entered before he even got there. so they just had to do the fingerprinting and other things inside the building. what security was like here outside, we saw it growing throughout the day. we know the street was blocked off. the jail itself was actually on lockdown, willie. they weren't letting anybody come in, be booked. intake itself was cleared which is something that you never see happen in a county jail. so the fact that intake was cleared is also very stunning. so really all of the operations had to come to a halt in order for the former president to be booked in and out as quickly as he was, willie. >> blayne, trump's surrender came in advance. that noon deadline today. that's the deadline for all 19 co-defendants in the case to turn themselves in. early this morning, five others were booked at the fulton county jail. former doj official jeffrey clark, georgia state senator shawn still, 20 campaign staffer michael roman, and robert cheley. former election supervisor, misty hampton, also turned herself in. clark was the most notable of the group. in the final weeks, the trump administration came close to appointing him attorney general. that came close to the oval office meeting where justice department officials threatened to resign if he was installed as a.g. yesterday trump's former white house chief of staff mark meadows and the former executive director of the group, black voices for trump, harrison floyd were also booked. meadows who has petitioned to have his case moved to federal court was released on $100,000 bond. a hearing on that matter is scheduled for monday, and floyd became the first co-defendant to not be released after being booked. that was because he did not have a preset bond agreement. a chicago woman who was once a publicist for kanye west and a lutheran pastor also from illinois are the last two co-defendants yet to surrender. blayne, i guess we expect to see them before noon today? do you know anything about the person who's being detained right now or mark meadows' efforts to try and put everything off that seemed to be failing so far? >> reporter: yeah, mika. i'll start with mark meadows. what we saw really from him was the most vigorous pushback, one to getting arrested, two to even having the charges be here in fulton county. what was interesting as yesterday played out, remember. a judge denied his motion, his request rather to stop the d.a. from arresting him. remember, he put out a filing and in that filing we saw an email from the d.a.'s office to his attorneys, and it was pretty strongly worded basically making it clear that if he isn't here by friday at the deadline, she would not hesitate to issue arrest warrants to bring him into custody. she said the noon deadline was very generous and he's no different than anybody else who is facing criminal charges both in this case or in fulton county in general and made it clear he had no choice but to come down here and turn himself in. we got a heads-up, and he turned himself in, and he was released very quickly thereafter. that hearing will be held on monday. that's a hearing that will give us a better sense of where things are going and how that case may turn out. as for what we're going to see here at the fulton county jail, the sheriff has made it clear that he does believe that the remaining two people, all of the 19 co-defendants will meet this friday, noon deadline, that they won't have to issue arrest warrants in this case and they expect everyone to come down, surrender, and turn themselves in, mika. >> nbc's blayne alexander, thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," eugene robinson says donald trump has a recipe for carnage. gene joins the conversation straight ahead on "morning joe." straight ahead on "morning joe." . they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ at the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's, only pay for what you need. this is why we walk. ♪ they're why we walk. ♪ we walk in the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's because we're getting closer to beating this disease. join us. ♪ chevy silverado has what it takes to do it all. with up to 13 camera views. and the z71 off-road package. ♪ you ok? yeah. any truck can help you make a living. this one helps you build a life. chevy silverado. age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv sleep more deeply and wake up rejuvenated. purple mattresses exclusive gel flex grid draws away heat relieves pressure and instantly adapts. sleep better. live purple. right now save up to $900 off mattress sets during purple's labor day sale. visit purple.com or a mattress firm near you. your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma that can mean less oral steroids. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala. let's bring in now our panel. former chairman, michael steele, pulitzer prize-winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson, and justice and legal affairs analyst, anthony coley who was under merrick garland. michael steele, let's begin with you. so here we are in august. we have a president that has been indicted four times, and the number of charges, well, he -- 13 in georgia, 40 in florida, 34 in new york, and 4 in d.c. so about 90 actual charges against the president, and, you know, i have so many people talking about this right now, and they try to talk about the political side of it and try to talk about what they heard on tv last night, and what so-and-so's take on twitter, but, you know, every lawyer i've talked to at this point says, the only question is, is donald trump going to do a deal or is donald trump going to defend up in prison? >> yeah. >> the only political question is, if he doesn't do a deal, a universal deal, and he ends up in prison, will the republican party nominate somebody and elect somebody while they're in jail or will they choose a different path forward? it's -- it's pretty stark, and again, these lawyers i talk to, again, republicans and democrats alike, you know, they say he can pose. he can preen. he can say whatever he wants to say. at the end of the day, the walls aren't closing in on him. the walls have closed in on him. he's got 90 indictments, and even -- even his biggest apologists legally have said, even one of those indictments could amount to a life sentence. >> yeah. i think that's all right on point. look, joe. we are where we knew we would be. once this process started -- >> yeah. >> you've got people, you know, sort of, like, oh, this moment. well, i'm sorry. i factored in this moment a long time ago because this is the natural course of how it should have gone once you started down the road in these four separate indictments of holding this president accountable. from my view, you know, watching yesterday the motorcades and the security, 80 motorcycles stationed. i'm sitting here going, he lost those privileges the moment this whole thing started to unravel, and yet we still try to keep him elevated on the same level as a barack obama or a george bush or former president. he's not. he is now an indicted individual, four times, 91 counts. he's got a much -- he's got an inmate number. he's not, you know, he's a former president, but he's a lot of other former things too, and so i think the country now has to begin to contextualize all of this. the lawyers that you cited are exactly right. the politics on this is exactly clear, and we already know, joe, what the politics is. we're seeing it play out. jim jordan and his ilk are all on defense to protect and block this, and stay in election boards and processes around the country. they're already setting it up. so let's not be surprised and act like oh, my god, we didn't see this coming. they have been telegraphing it and preparing first for over two years now so we know what they're doing on the ground in a lot of states, particularly key states like wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, shall i go on? we've heard these places before, right? so let us stop being surprised by stuff and get in the game and understand exactly what jim jordan and all the others are doing to set up 2024, and when that happens, we'll know how to deal with it because we will have dealt with it before that moment, and so this is -- this for me, this mug shot, we knew donald trump was going to put it on a t-shirt. we knew he was going to say, all right? he's going to make his bling off of it. he's going to get his cash because that's what it's always been about. let's factor it all in, and, you know, marjorie taylor greene wants to take a mugshot of herself, don't worry, baby. your turn may come sooner than you think, all right? let's understand the moment beyond the shock and awe of it and recognize that the politics is in play. the legal system is doing what it should do, and the american people now need to decide whether or not they want to put this man back in the white house. >> yeah, and willie, it's a great point by michael. there's nothing to be shocked about here. it's something we have been predicting on this show for a very long time, even before he ran for president, predicting that he would run for president in '24 to try to avoid the charges that were sure to come, especially after january the 6th. we had no idea what was going to be happening with the mar-a-lago documents case while we were saying those things, but yes. if you steal nuclear secrets, if you try to steal elections in georgia, if you try to steal secret war plans against iran, and then you start showing them after admitting that they're classified documents and you shouldn't be showing them, this is inevitably what would happen to any other american for those who were shocked and stunned and deeply saddened that this has happened. i guess the only question is, why do you think the rest of america has one set of laws we all live by, and donald trump has another? because clearly at least in these four jurisdictions, he does not. >> yeah, and if you try to lead an attempted coup against the united states government and overturn an election, it turns out there are consequences and here we are with some accountability for that right now. let's not be surprised either as michael says about what republicans are doing right now. the house judiciary chairman jim jordan is demanding documents and everything that fani willis has because he wants to sift through it and make sure it's all good with him. she doesn't owe him that, but he's going to pursue that just as he did with alvin bragg. anthony, let me turn to you. you worked in the justice department under merrick garland for some time while a lot of this was developing, while these investigations were going on. what is your sense -- let's focus on fulton county and georgia, and the mugshot we saw last night. if you had to rank these in terms of seriousness for donald trump -- they're all serious. let's be clear about that. >> right. >> but the peril he faces in georgia feels pretty extreme here. >> that's exactly right, and that's because let's play this out. it's because if assuming he somehow returns to the white house, the georgia case is pardon-proof. that's why i think this one poses the -- the most critical thing against donald trump, but i want to go back to something michael steele just said. he said the legal system is working as it should, and that's exactly right. it is working as it should, but i think the reason we are seeing such a reaction online to this mugshot is because, willie, donald trump has gotten away with pushing the bounds of what is legal for so long, for decade after decade. he's done things that are untoward. he's gotten away with it, but this photo, this mugshot is a visible sign of the system working, and i think for many people -- millions of americans, we just thought that we wouldn't let ourselves believe that this guy could actually be facing the penalties and the consequences that he is now facing. >> yeah. i mean, it's accountability. that image right now is the beginning anyway of potential accountability. >> absolutely. >> from your former perch, how does this all fit together now? we talk about these four major indictments that there were two from jack smith, one in manhattan and one in fulton county. how does the next year, the next 18 months, how does this all play out from your view? >> yeah. my -- the thing that i really appreciate about the georgia case is that we will all get to see it live unfold on television, and this is so important because we -- willie, we've seen so many lies, so much misinformation coming out from donald trump that the -- the facts have got to remain front and center. the lie that i heard last night, and i just want to read it if i can. this is what donald trump told reporters after his booking. when you challenge an election, you should be able to challenge an election. what he left out here is that the appropriate venue to challenge the elections are courts of law. >> and they tried that. >> they lost some 60 times in georgia and across the country. they also had recounts, hand recounts in georgia, and then what donald trump goes on to do is try to persuade conservative, republican leaders in the state of georgia to go along with his elicit campaign. to their credit, they said no. we're not going to do this. we're going to put our country ahead of our party. we're going to stand for the rule of law and we're going to stand for democracy. somebody mentioned jim jordan earlier. he could take -- that's a good example for him to follow, those conservative republicans down in georgia because they stood for what they believed in, and they did ultimately what was right. this is going to treat them well. >> eugene robinson, there is still a lot of concern in the days and months to come. the republican party has one problem, and that is how to deal with donald trump who's the front-runner, and yet trying to move forward with an election that can be won. secondly for the country, donald trump keeps pushing these lies. he keeps drumming up anger. he keeps saying he did nothing wrong, it was a perfect call. it's not like anything is over because he's had his mugshot taken and we have learned over the years that when donald trump says something, to believe him, and i guess my question to you is, do you think he could push his supporters, again, to do things that are out of bounds? >> sure he could. i mean, let's be honest. he did it once. of course, he could do it again. i'm not sure -- i'm not predicting that he will or he will try to do that, but -- and it is kind of interesting that in the places where indictments have come down or he's had to be booked and charged, we haven't seen big, raucous, pro-trump crowds or many crowds at all really, and that's not all due to strong, you know, strict security. people haven't showed up. that's kind of an interesting point. that doesn't mean they wouldn't at some future date, but, you know, we really are going into uncharted waters here because the republican party right now does not have an alternative to donald trump as it looks ahead to the november election. you saw the debate the other night, and six of the eight people on the stage said, well, yeah. even if he's convicted, you know, i'll still vote for him. if they're not going to run against him, to run against -- including running against the fact that he's now under four felony criminal indictments in four different jurisdictions for really serious crimes, if they're not going to run against that, he's going to win the nomination, and it's an interesting question. will he be in jail at the time or -- it's almost certain that he's going to still be facing these legal perils at that time, and, you know, what does the party do then? i think the answer is the party just seems to be willing -- the republican party seems to be willing just to go with this awful flow, and put donald trump up as its candidate for president. coming up, we've got the first look at a brand-new ad from president biden's re-election campaign in response to this week's republican debate focusing on the issue of abortion. that's next on "morning joe." th. sleep more deeply. and wake up rejuvenated. with purple's new mattresses fall asleep 20% faster have less aches and pains and sleep uninterrupted. right now save up to $900 off mattresses sets during purple's labor day sale. visit purple.com or a store near you your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv when my doctor gave me breztri for my copd things changed for me. breztri gave me better breathing, symptom improvement, and reduced flare-ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. ask your doctor about breztri. florida governor and republican presidential candidate ron desantis held a rally last night at the field of dreams baseball diamond in diresville, iowa, and was asked about the contrast between how he was spending his night compared to trump. >> what do you think about the split screen of you here in the field of dreams and former president trump being arrested in georgia? >> well, i'm glad i'm at the field of dreams. i'm happy to be here. >> wow, boom. wow. let me tell you something. that was drier than a three-day-old bowl of grits, willie. drier than a three-day-old bowl of grits. come on, now. >> a kevin costner performance out there at the field of dream. >> no. why did he do that? >> a james earl jones moment. no. oh, and everything that reminds us of what we once were and what we might be. again, i am here and he is there. it is pretty. thank you. good night. >> joe, i know you guys have had many similar conversations that i have had with republican friends and republican sources who let's say, six months ago were sure he was the guy, that they were going to move beyond donald trump. ron desantis just won by almost 20 points in the state of florida, this key state. he's done a good job in their view, got them through covid, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, and he's the guy, and we're turning the page on donald trump, and as this has gone on and particularly after the debate two nights ago, they all went, ugh. okay. who else is out there? maybe vivek. they're still searching. maybe glenn youngkin will askrend from the heavens. >> a lot of people watched. >> a lot of people did watch, but i would say the level of disappointment from republicans who want to go somewhere beyond donald trump in ron desantis has now reached a -- well, it's reached its peak i would say. >> yeah. exactly. i will say this, willie. it was always fascinating to me that while people from 49 states were talking about how great ron desantis was and how he was going to be the great hope for the republican party, it's very fascinating that republicans in tallahassee, florida that did not work for him whenever i call them up say, what's he like? they're, like, kind of weird. kind of weird. don't know how he's going to do in those early states because they had dealt with him there. again, just -- again, might lack the touch. let's just say. the common man touch. >> the connection. >> yeah, like, nobody predicted that he would point at a little girl and tell her she was killing herself while she was drinking a slurpee, but those are some -- sometimes we just get those special gifts from the political gods, but yeah. some people are saying he can still win. i just -- i don't know. i don't see it. >> anything can happen. >> anything can happen, exactly, but let's talk really quickly because mika brought this up. 13 million people. i mean, it wasn't trump levels, but -- >> yeah. >> -- but 13 million people watched the debate, and a lot more people were talking about it yesterday than i was expecting. >> yeah. >> yes. >> and a lot of people were talking about nikki haley. in hard core republican circles, they like that vivek was rude and they thought that was cool and he was petulant. >> okay. >> he spouted conspiracy theories. a lot of people loved that. i think republicans that want to win elections and that sort of come from the republican party of ronald reagan and when i was inspired to join the republican party really impressed by nikki haley. >> yeah. i heard some of the same things. i would say the people who liked donald trump also liked vivek ramaswamy. they liked what they perceived as a combative style. i would say again he did say that climate change is a hoax. he did say that we should cut off all aid to ukraine. >> great. >> and we can go down the list of conspiracy theories and he would issue a pardon for donald trump, and he knew that. he pushed all those buttons, but to your point, it was nikki haley who did seem like and along with chris christie and mike pence to other degrees the adult in the room at least on that stage, and perhaps she will get, but she's still way, way behind in the polls, but perhaps she will get another look from people looking for an alternative here. let's bring in the conversation our capitol hill correspondent ali vitali. >> a treat in person. >> it's good to see you. lest talk about that debate and what you are hearing from people on capitol hill about you know the private conversations we all have. they might say out loud they like donald trump, and behind the scenes they're praying for an alternative to emerge. did anyone like what they saw on that stage? >> those prayers aren't getting answered after that debate mostly because the sense all of us had watching in milwaukee, and it was echoed by my conversations i was having with others, is it felt like everyone there was competing for the scraps while the guy who was at the front was eating at the main table, and i think it's really hard to have a debate that feels untethered from the reality from the polls and the state of the race. it's hard to take that seriously because trump is so far ahead. he doesn't have to face his opponent. some said to me, it was a great thing for those people because they weren't able to be deterred from their message by trump who sucks the oxygen out of the room. they were able to get a good look from the american public. fine, but there's still the reality that he's the person leading the pack. the one thing i seized on was something ron desantis said. he said this is not an election that's about january 6th, and i don't think i could disagree more because every conversation that i have leads back to the 2020 election, people who believe it was stolen despite the fact that it wasn't, and the ways in which trump has been able to remake and remold the party around it. the people on the stage don't want to contend with january 6th because it's not politically expedient for them to go after donald trump or sell out the constitution, but it's very much a central premise of what's at stake here, and it certainly is going to be in the general as we watched biden make that the centerpiece of both 2020 and likely 2024. >> speaking of joe biden in response to that first primary debate, the biden/harris election campaign, out with a new ad titled "these guys" that highlights the issue of abortion, a topic candidates spent the most time discussing on wednesday night. here is a first look at that ad. >> reproductive health care decisions are among the most personal a woman will ever make. they are choices that should be made by and you your doctor, and the last people who should be involved are these guys. >> first of all, i'm the one that got rid of roe v. wade. >> florida governor desantis quietly signed into law, one of the nation's strictest abortion bans. >> governor esantis, you signed a six-week abortion ban. >> i believe in a culture of life. >> if i were president of the united states, i would literally sign the most conservative pro-life legislation that they can get through congress. >> do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no as a principle? >> the answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah. there has to be some form. >> president biden and vice president harris are determined to restore roe v. wade, and they will never allow a national abortion ban to become law. as long as they are in office, decisions about your body will be made by you, not by them. >> that spot will run for two weeks on digital. it'll be online, on your phone, in arizona, michigan, nevada, north carolina, pennsylvania, and wisconsin. obviously, ali, the issue of abortion was devastating to the electoral hopes of republicans in the midterm elections. it's going to be a big factor again coming up in 2024, and those candidates on the stage the other night were all over the place. tim scott said, i want a federal law. we cannot allow abortion to be taking place in blue states either. >> yep. >> basically making the case against federalism. >> when he said he would sign literally the most conservative bill that he could find, that was in an interview with me where i said, is that six weeks? he even agreed that was on the table. even ron desantis who signed that bill said he was proud to sign it, but signed it in the dead of night in florida. couldn't say on the debate stage that he wanted to sign a federal six-week ban. all of them are being pushed to the right here. trump is perhaps one of the people who is more liberal on this issue even though it's not liberal at all, but this is a problem that i hear about often from republican operatives. the fact you have to get through a primary on this issue and you have to sell it for evangelical voters and pivot to a general where this is a position that is out of step with the 6 in 10 americans who say abortion should be safe or legal in all or most cases and i was just in ohio two weeks ago when they did that referendum. the fact that they had 3 million people come out in the dead of august for an election that was relatively spontaneously announced really is a blinking warning sign to republican operatives in washington who look at this -- maybe it's not a problem for right now, but it's definitely a problem for six months from now because the thing i keep hearing is republicans are the dogs who caught the car on this, and how they'll get run over electorally. >> one group that understands this, one group of people, gene robinson, "wall street journal" editorial page writers. they have an op-ed today -- or they have an editorial today talking about nikki haley's gop debate truths, and it says if nikki haley gets a bump in the polls wednesday, one thing is she respected viewers but telling the truth. the former south carolina governor insisted, brace yourself that in consensus policy-making. can't we all agree that we should ban late-term abortions? can't we agree that contraception should be available? then "the wall street journal" goes on to say, abortion advocates who won referendums in kansas by 18 points. in michigan, passed by 14 points. a state constitutional amendment going beyond roe v. wade, and then the editorial board for the "wall street journal" says her honesty didn't stop there. donald trump added $8 trillion to our debt. you look at the '24 budget and republicans asked for $7.4 billion, and democrats asked for $2.8 billion and then went on to tell the truth about donald trump. we have to face the fact that donald trump is the most disliked politician in america. so just generally "the wall street journal" really does nail it here that it was nikki haley who actually told the truth, decided, hey. maybe i'll try this in the debate with all this crazy conspiracy talk going on, and she did stand out. she gave a lot of older republicans a reason to hope. also on the abortion issue, nikki haley's right. unless they figure out a consensus on abortion and get more in line with where the american people are, which really is somewhere like in europe, somewhere between 15 and 20 weeks, they're going to keep losing elections and nikki haley seems to be the only republican on the national stage that understands that. >> certainly the only one who's willing to say it. i mean, and good for her. good for her that she recognized objective reality. however, right after that with mike pence who said that the consensus is the opposite of leadership or something like that, that. i don't quite understand that. >> that's bizarre. >> i don't understand what that means in the context of how government works. there's got to be a certain level of consensus. there is no consensus for these strict abortion bans that much of the republican base seems to want or at least the candidates certainly think that's what the base wants. so they're going to keep giving it to them. this really is the issue on which, i think, the republican party fooled around and they're finding out that this is a powerful issue that is bringing people out in red states to vote for democrats and enshrining the right for people to vote in state constitutions and this could be a huge issue in a lot of states in 2024, where abortion rights advocates are able to get the issue on the ballot. coming up, we'll go live to atlanta on the heels of former president trump's fourth arrest this year. this one, though, in georgia. the latest from fulton county next on "morning joe." e latest next on "morning joe." rsv is in for a surprise. meet arexvy. 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(vo) ask your doctor about once-weekly mounjaro. live look at los angeles for you, where it is 6:00 a.m. on the west coast. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it's 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. we're going to dive right in to the major story of the morning. donald trump became the first former president with a mugshot when he was placed under arrest at the fulton county jail last night. trump was booked on 13 felony charges stemming from his efforts to overturn the 2020 election results in the state of georgia. blayne alexander has the latest from atlanta. >> reporter: it's an image never before seen in american history, a mugshot of former president trump released overnight by the sheriff's office in fulton county, georgia. it comes after mr. trump surrenders to authorities at the county jail, where he was officially charged with trying to overturn his 2020 election loss in georgia. he remained defiant as he left the state. >> i did nothing wrong. >> reporter: overnight, describing the surrender to newsmax. >> it is what it is. i took a mugshot. i never heard the words mugshot. they didn't teach me that at the wharton school of finance. >> reporter: now the president is trying to turn the unprecedented photo into a political asset, selling mugshot t-shirts with the caption "never surrender" and posting the image on x, formerly known as twitter, his first post on the platform in more than two years since his suspension after january 6th. with the jail on heavy lockdown, mr. trump was inside for less than 20 minutes, entering booking information, hair color blond or strawberry, eyes blue, height 6'3" and weight 215 pounds. he was then released on a $200,000 bond. charles shaw, the bail bondsman who facilitated trump's release, spoke with gabe gutierrez. >> it was a wow moment. i just wanted to make sure we did it right. >> will you vote for him? >> absolutely 100%. >> reporter: 17 of the 19 codefendants have turned themselves in ahead of today's deadline set by d.a. fani willis, including chief of staff mark meadows. the gop frontrunner surrender is making waves on the campaign trail. florida governor ron desantis in iowa, asked if trump's legal troubles will overshadow the primary race. >> if republicans let it overwhelm, then it will. but we don't have to let it overwhelm. >> no, you don't. you shake your head a lot when you're talking to people in iowa. so, willie, we report these things every day. we're now through four indictments, 91 counts, four different jurisdictions. you know, it's fascinating. this happens to be georgia, 19 codefendants, a heck of a lot of charges, rico challenges. you stack that up with the jack smith case for january 6th, which is moving rapidly with a monday hearing coming up to set the trial date. if that trial date is early spring, if convicted, he could be in jail by summer. you stack on top of that the manhattan case and on top of that the documents case. with the documents case, they seem to have him dead to rights, same thing with the january 6th case. it's lean, it's tightly drafted. the accumulation of all of this is nothing short of remarkable. again, 91 counts against him. my god, it's hard to imagine anybody running a presidential campaign when one of those counts could send him to jail for the rest of his life. so there has to be a huge emotional toll on donald trump, as there would be on anybody. i must say i question the marketing of that mugshot. for everybody that wears one of those t-shirts, there's going to be a former republican or a moderate republican or a swing state suburban voter who's going to see that and it's just a reminder why they don't want to send a guy who's probably going to be a convict by the election to the white house. it's a lot, i guess is what i'm saying. this is a lot on the shoulders of donald trump and the republican party. >> it is. the image on t-shirts and mugs and flags and everything we're sure to see in the coming days and weeks will rile up the people who are with him already and who always will be with him like the man who said all the charges are phony, echoing what donald trump has said. the idea here is to win a general election to become president. you can't win with just your base, as he proved in 2020 as well. it may feel good for supporters, but it's not going to get him anywhere in terms of a general election. i was talking to a lawyer who was republican leaning who said just the sheer volume of the 91 charges, the odds that none of them stick are very low. even if he's not convicted, say, in georgia on charges or in the documents case somehow, there's still the other special counsel investigation. the point being, there are so many charges against him at this point, most of which carry jail time, that the odds of him not being convicted for at least one of those are very low. >> it's hands of juries, but we're not idiots. we look at cases. we have throughout our entire life looked at cases. i won't mention anybody who ultimately got convicted, because a president is innocent until proven guilty by a jury of his peers. that doesn't stop us from looking at the fact patterns, for instance, of the documents case. that's why you have republican lawyers, people that have worked for donald trump, former attorneys general that have worked for donald trump, in fact, two that have worked for donald trump, republican lawyers that i know that have voted for donald trump. just looking at the fact pattern, certainly in the documents case, they've got him. the prosecutors have got him on the documents case for obstruction of justice. again, you know, there's been jury nullification before. a lot of people thought o.j. simpson's first trial there was jury nullification. so there can be jury nullification. maybe the jury just decides they're not going to follow the law in ft. pierce. maybe the judge does her best to twist and distort what the law is and try to hurt the government's case. that all remains to be seen. but the fact patterns are so strong against the defendant in the documents case and on january 6th, it's written so tightly on january 6th, jack smith has a very good chance of getting at least one or two convictions there on some of those counts. then you look to georgia. in georgia, they have a specific statute aimed at trying to stop this sort of behavior, and they've got the entire republican political apparatus in georgia, the people that won the georgia republican party, the governor and the secretary of state saying donald trump's lying. everything he's saying about a rigged election is false, and we've got the tape to prove that he was trying to rig the election. again, you stack all of these things up and i say this as a lawyer that talks to lawyers every day, the lawyers who told me after the manhattan case they got nothing on him. the lawyers i talk to now are saying they don't see how donald trump doesn't get convicted and sent to jail. >> it's become kind of conventional wisdom over the years nothing sticks to donald trump, he gets away with everything. boy, things have changed here. that mugshot may be the beginning of a very, very difficult period for donald trump coming up. let's introduce our panel this hour. former white house director of communications to president obama jennifer palmieri. former u.s. attorney joyce vance. political reporter greg bluestein and mehdi hasan. what was it like as that big motorcade rolled in and stopped briefly at that infamous jail where the former president of the united states was processed, including with that mugshot and then got back on his plane to go home? >> reporter: yeah. surreal is an understatement. we in georgia lived through 2020 and 2021 with the former president's attempt to overturn the election. it hits home, obviously. watching the former president in that giant motorcade roll in and out of fulton county jail reminded us this is the beginning of a new chapter, a long, drawn-out legal process. we know district attorney fani willis wants the trial as early as march for the former president. but this is going to be probably a years-long legal battle. >> joyce vance, talk about the timing. there are some who want to expedite this, but we know donald trump. some experts would look at donald trump's situation and say the only way he stays out of jail is to delay, delay, delay, delay. keeping in mind that georgia, i don't believe these crimes can be pardoned. can you confirm? >> that's right. donald trump, even if he regains the white house, will not be able to pardon any conviction in georgia. georgia has an unusual pardon process. it's not in the hands of the governor. it's actually in the hands of an independent bipartisan board. so even there, trump wouldn't have a straight political path forward towards a pardon. in fact, one might think -- and we've begun to see in georgia over the last couple of weeks political figures who have said, no, the election wasn't stolen in georgia, this was a fair election here. so a little bit of a different feeling among georgia republican leadership than what we've seen elsewhere. of course, that puts the focus on the decision the judge will make in the next coming days and weeks, actually a couple of judges, because we have a federal judge who will have to decide whether the case can be transferred from state court to federal court. there are some good legal issues here. it seems unlikely to me that the case will go federal. that means the state court judge will have to decide how quickly he will set trial. the first defendant is now scheduled for a late fall trial. he asked for that speedy trial. donald trump has asked to receiver. he doesn't want any part of an october trial. the judge will have to decide what's fair for the defendants and the government both and set a trial date for the remaining 18 defendants. >> jen, there's no way to know where this goes from here. we've never been here before, never seen a mugshot of a former president, let alone one who wants to be president again and is going to be sitting through four trials potentially, maybe going to jail while running for president. what's your sense from the other side, from the biden/harris campaign of what this next year and a half is going to look like for them? >> it's american carnage, right? when you see the mugshot, that was the phrase that came to me mind thinking of him on the steps of the capitol at the inauguration speaking of american carnage and then this six years later. i think the biden white house, like the rest of us, are sort of processing it too. what does that mean when you're running against somebody who could actually be in jail? and by the way, i would note he's beating joe biden right now in a lot of battleground state polls. a lot of times people get asked are you going to support the republican nominee no matter who it is, and they all say yes. but this specific question of will you support him if he is convicted, with the exception of christie and asa, they all say yes. what is the theory of the case of how you're going to beat him if even that is acceptable? this is the 250-year battle that's like come to fruition. i think the white house is unsure what that's going to be like. >> six of the eight people who raised their hands to say they will vote for a convict if the convict is found guilty of stealing nuclear secrets, if the convict is found guilty of stealing american war plans against iran, if the convict is found guilty of showing those classified top secret war plans to somebody else before telling them i shouldn't be showing you these because i can't declassify them. and if that convict is found guilty of trying to steal an american election. now, i am an optimist. i think this sort of lunacy causes them to lose yet another race. but the polls are pretty close. regardless, you've written a post that's allowed us to play the theme song to "succession" several times this morning teasing this segment. the logan roy line, by the way, it was perfect for that moment in that show, seems perfect for this very serious moment in american. these are not serious people. >> no. they didn't even try and be serious people. the reason i wrote that piece is because they claimed they were going to talk about big issues on the night. yet, when ron desantis is asked about the economy, he says i'm going to bring anthony fauci into the oval office and say "you're fired"! well anthony fauci retired in 2022 and has nothing to do with inflation. tim scott was asked what are you going to do about crime. he said, i'm going to fire merrick garland. well, merrick garland won't be there if you are president. it was all the usual nonsense. no substance whatsoever. on the biggest issue of them all, asked about donald trump, the six of the eight raised their hands. i would have loved to have seen a follow-up question saying, so just to be clear, if he's running from prison, as eugene debs did in the 1920s, are you going to support the guy in the prison cell when he runs for president? i would have loved to have seen their response to that. ron desantis, the never surrender guy, he looks around to check what is everyone else saying before he raises his own hand. this is what never surrender means. i love this line because donald trump puts up his mugshot over the line never surrender. that's literally a picture of him surrendering. one last point about the mugshot, with the mugshot we found out that he's 215 pounds and 6'3". so congratulations to p00115809. he's gained an inch and dropped 25 pounds since his arraignment in april. congratulations. i don't know what diet he's on. i want a piece of that. >> stress. >> i stood next to donald trump a good bit in the past. i'm about 6'4". i'm sorry. here are some comparisons. lamar jackson is 6'2", 215 pounds. brady weighs more than donald trump, i guess, weighs more than ali at 29 and even more than bryce. well, he's about the same as bryce harper. i stood next to him. he's a couple inches shorter. maybe he's grown an inch or two or something like that. i don't really get it. i also want to ask you about what democrats do, what people who support american democracy do. i think jen brings up a good point. here's a guy who's been charged 91 counts for things like stealing nuclear secrets, and yet he's still ahead of joe biden in a lot of swing state polls. if you're called today to run the messaging for the biden white house, what's the message to win? >> joe, i think nature abhors a vacuum. i always worry when there's a political vacuum that republicans are able to fill with lies and distortions and gaslighting and grievance and self-victimization. i take an unorthodox view in this city in d.c. a lot of democrats and white house officials will say, look, we can't comment on this case. it's legal cases. we're staying out of it, we're staying silent. we may come to it when the debates happen. i don't think they can leave a vacuum. i don't think joe biden officially running for reelection can perpetually stay silent on the fact that his most likely opponent will be facing four trials. i would like to see democrats raise the issue of trump's charges much more often. this idea of we can't do that because it looks like we're politicizing justice, well guess what? the other side is already claiming you are. >> greg, bringing it back to fulton county here, it's been interesting to watch republicans in that state, governor brian kemp, secretary of state brad raffensperger and others from the beginning of this whole episode, going back to that phone call on january 2nd, 2021, reported by brad raffensperger for history with the tape on him and continuing to stand by the fact that, yes, joe biden won in our state. we are republicans, we voted for donald trump, but he lost here. it's a fascinating political dynamic. are you seeing movement from not just leadership but from republicans writ large away from donald trump, or is his support pretty solid in georgia? >> reporter: yeah, his support is solid. i was just at a republican convention of the non-trump lane candidates, six of the top candidates running for president who are not donald trump were all there. in the middle of that conference, there was a poll sponsored by governor kemp's pac of republican voters that showed donald trump had well above 53% of the vote. this is a wakeup call that donald trump still has significant support in georgia. as you said earlier, 2020 proved the base alone will not win you an election in a battleground state like georgia. you've got to get those swing and independent voters. that's going to be the big question of 2024. whoever can get those independent voters can do that. the question is, can those voters wearing those mugshots of donald trump on their t-shirts influence swing independent voters in atlanta suburbs who will decide the election? >> as we know, the margins are razor thin, less than 12,000 votes in 2020. joyce, the word surrender has come up a lot in the past 24 hours. in your view, what actually happened last night? the president of the united states was arrested, was he not? >> he was arrested, despite the fact that he got to the jail in a motorcade with a fleet of motorcycle police officers and secret service agents deferentially opening doors for him, this is the end of that sort of treatment for donald trump. what we will see from this point on in georgia is that he has been arrested, he is a criminal defendant due no special deference. the difference in georgia is proceedings are televised. we will be able to see some of the pretrial proceedings and any trial of trump or the codefendants will be on television. americans will be able to see it for themselves. we shouldn't undervalue the impact it will have hearing the evidence against donald trump. >> joyce vance, greg bluestein and mehdi hasan, thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," a democratic governor calls out the biden administration for its response to their state's migrant crisis. plus, officials in maui are taking legal action in the aftermath of the deadly wildfire. we'll tell you who they say is to blame for starting the disaster. "morning joe" is coming right back. 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>> newark. >> oh my god. >> i had a cup of coffee. >> you were lounging here. >> yeah. >> if you add in "way too early" this program is as long as as a cross country flight from los angeles. >> yes, it is. let's get back to the news. new york governor kathy hochul is urging president biden to address the influx of migrants arriving in the state. in a ten-minute address yesterday, the governor called out the administration for failing to respond to her calls to expedite work permits for migrants and provide financial assistance to help care for asylum seekers. >> the reality is we've managed thus far without substantive support from washington and despite the fact that this is a national, indeed, an inherently federal issue. but new york has shouldered this burden for far too long. this crisis originated with the federal government and it must be resolved through the federal government. >> it's estimated that around 100,000 migrants have traveled to new york city from the southern border over the past year. more than half are believed to have taken refuge in the city's shelters. >> it's out of control. i have always been a big believer and i've always said that i want more immigrants here and i want us to keep our arms wide open to refugees, but there has to be an orderly process to get this done. let me say again just on an issue of fairness, why in the world would somebody who wants to immigrate here from pakistan or kazakhstan or sub-saharan africa, why should they be on a list and try to get in for six, seven, eight years legally, while you have other people from all different countries and just streaming over the southern border. this is something i saw firsthand in congress, where i would have people coming to my office begging, help me, i've been trying to get my wife to the united states for six years, for seven years. and then people just walk across the border. i know it's a dangerous, dangerous trip, so it's not that they're just walking across the border. but if you can get across the border, which i think it's immoral to have people try to take their families, their children across deserts to make them think, hey, you're going to be okay once you get here. you get across the border, there's no order to it, there's no equity to it. it creates chaos. this is not just republicans saying this. you have the democratic mayor of new york city who's been saying this for quite some time. you have the democratic governor of new york state saying this. you have the democratic governor from illinois saying this. two things are thank at once. we have this chaos at the border and now chaos in cities with people who are seeking either refugee status or seeking to become americans here with citizenship status. at the same time we have a worker shortage for family restaurants, for family hardware stores, for young entrepreneurs that are starting up their businesses, from there all the way to silicon valley, people who need some high-tech workers to be able to come to america, get their advanced degrees and help them create jobs in america instead of india or china or in europe. it's just insanity. why can't we get an immigration deal that, again, protects the border, but also protects refugees and gives american businesses the workers they need? >> it's a national problem. you see with governor hochul, governor pritzker in illinois making it more of a national issue, which as trying as it is, i think is probably positive in terms of putting pressure on congress to act. republicans won't act, joe. that is the problem. they like this problem. they want to keep this problem alive. there could be bipartisan consensus to pass a bill that would deal with this. they will not act. there is one small bipartisan bill called the dignity act introduced by congressman escobar in texas. it has equal numbers of democrats and republicans supporting it. there's not a lot right now. i think it's not just a problem at the border. this is a hemispheric problem. this is different than immigration problems we've had in the last few decades. this is much bigger. it's going to have to be dealt with. there's beginning of bipartisan consensus to get something done, buts that is not going to this year. maui county officials are publicly blaming hawaii's largest utility company for the wildfires that have devastated the island, killing at least 115 people and leaving hundreds missing. in a new lawsuit filed yesterday, officials in maui accuse hawaiian electric of intentional and malicious mismanagement, claiming the company failed to adequately maintain its system in the years before the fire, adding it declined to power down its lines despite several reports. this is the first time the utility company has been blamed for the wildfires by the local government. in response, hawaiian electric put out a statement criticizing the lawsuit while an investigation is ongoing. coming up next, two months now after the titan submersible imploded while searching for the titanic killing five people, we're learning new details of what exactly went wrong. our next guest says that disaster was years in the making and highlights the red flags that were ignored. he red flags that were ignored. more shopping? 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how is it allowed to go where it went? what happened? >> there aren't any laws or regulations that force somebody to build a sub a certain way unless they're operating it commercially within the troil territorial waters of the united states, which ocean gate specifically did not. there's a process that all deep sea subs go through. there aren't that many of them. they are certified almost like peer reviewed by external agencies that specially do this. it takes years, it's very expensive. they just skipped that entire step. >> my father's career was in nuclear submarines in the navy. the navy would have these submersibles where they would go to the bottom of the ocean, but highly regulated, highly tested. do you think in terms of the people that decided to get on board with this, it cost so much money, do you know anything about the people who decided to do this? did they do due diligence to figure out whether or not it was safe? did the high price tag give them false assurance that it was safe? >> i did know one of the men on the submersible. he's one of the characters in the book that i wrote about deep see exploration. he was one of the most experienced deep sea submersible pilots not just today but in history. he was renowned. nobody could figure out what he was doing on it. i think with people who were buying tickets, there was a range of understanding about it. there was a certain type of person that just wants to do it and thinks it's going to be safe most likely, but will willing to roll the dice. then there are people who probably had less understanding of it. i think there was a lot of theater around it to make it look like it was safe. you know, let me put it this way. do not get into a deep sea submersible if you're not in a spherical pressure hull that has gone through this rigorous process, because safety is the central fact of any endeavors in the deep ocean. it's the riskiest environment on earth. these subs in general are very safe. they had no fatalities for 50 years prior to the titan. the titan was one of a kind and not in a good way. >> so, susan, i have been reading your article and others. the one common denominator for people who knew what they were talking about like you, they said the margin for error is so extraordinarily small. if there's just a fraction, a piece of the material that flakes off, you know, the entire thing will explode, because of difference in pressure. can you explain that and explain how the margin of error is so extraordinarily small here? >> yeah. pressure is 6,000 pounds per square inch, they are nonnegotiable in the deep ocean. deep sea subs are engineered with multiple redundancies so they're failsafe. if something goes wrong, there are four other systems to back it up. there should be no single point of failure. this is all math, right? we know the materials used by everybody but the titan are completely predictable, tie titanium. if something fails, you're going to come back up. there are all kinds of issues submersibles have to worry about, like fire in the capsule, entanglement, especially on a wreck like the titanic. it has never happened before and it will never happen again. >> stockton rush was on board the submersible and died. if rush had listened to the warnings from underwater experts and done the testing to make it safe, the five people on board the titan would be available today. the new book is titled "underworld, journeys to the depths of the ocean." susan casey, great to meet you. >> thank you. coming up, for a generation of afghan women growing up post taliban meant they enjoyed freedoms their mothers never had. but that all changed two years ago when the taliban regained power in kabul. the young women who make up the national soccer team saw what was coming and made the difficult decision to leave their home for a better life. a look at their stories straight ahead on "morning joe." r storiet ahead on "morning joe. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv if you have heart disease and are on a statin, lowering cholesterol can be hard. diets and exercise add to the struggle. today, it's possible to go from struggle to cholesterol success with leqvio. with a statin, leqvio is proven to lower bad cholesterol by over 50% and keep it low with two doses a year. common side effects were injection site reaction, joint pain, urinary tract infection, diarrhea, chest cold, pain in legs or arms, and shortness of breath. ask your doctor about twice-yearly leqvio. lower. longer. leqvio. ♪ new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today. rsv is in for a surprise. meet arexvy. 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[ speaking in a non-english language ] >> we started moving them in small groups through the mountains. >> that is look at the extraordinary new documentary ayenda which premiers this sunday at 10:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc and peacock. it follows the harrowing journey of the young women on afghanistan's national soccer team after u.s. troops withdrew from the country two years ago. the film's director and producer marie margolius joins us now. i've been hearing about this movie for at least a year. there's so much talk and buzz around it. it is really an extraordinary piece of work. so congratulations on the movie, but tell us about the story first. we all remember those terrible scenes two years ago, it was august of 2021 of the evacuation of the americans from afghanistan, and so begins the journey of this women's soccer team. >> yeah, so two years ago when the u.s. withdrew from afghanistan and the taliban begun to take control of the country, all sorts of groups of people were in danger really and felt like their lives were at risk under this new regime, and so you saw, you know, thousands of afghans flocking to the airport trying to escape. i grew up playing soccer and so i was particularly drawn to the stories of young female athletes that felt like their lives were at risk, and so i found out about what the afghan football federation was doing to get their girls and women to safety and found out that this youth team was headed to portugal where they have gotten asylum. after a harrowing journey out of the country, and so i met them in portugal and started filming ayenda. >> you're humble, you're a college soccer star. we don't need to dwell on that. i don't want to give away too much of the film. people are going to watch, but how did they get them out of the country? how did they begin? because it was so hard, once the american evacuation was over, it was hard to get anybody out of there. >> it was hard to get anyone out to say the least, particularly after the u.s. had sort of set a deadline of when they were going to pull all of their troops out and all of their forces on the ground that would offer support getting at risk groups out. and so these girls got out after that deadline, and so they got out with the help of a network of veterans of the united states armed forces, a young woman in canada who was an afghan canadian soccer player herself. they had this sort of vigilante style group of people who were working really on their own through these kind of murky, undefined channels to move the girls from a world away, right? like they're communicating with the girls on whatsapp telling them, okay, go here. now go there. now stay at this safe house for two weeks, and eventually got them on a plane and out of the country. >> and was the concern not just that they wouldn't be able to play soccer under taliban rule but that they would actually be targeted because they were athletes? >> yeah, i think at first that was certainly the concern was, you know, all sorts of people who had built lives for themselves under the united states occupied afghanistan, whether it was someone who was supporting the u.s.-backed government or women with jobs, certainly, like i said, female athletes, musicians. they -- those groups, i think there was a real fear of retaliation in the immediate aftermath. i think as time went on, if the girls had found safety in that kind of new world, there was a larger and much more profound fear, i think, that they'd essentially be erased from public life. and if you look at what's happening now, it's true. it's what would have happened. they wouldn't have been able to go to school. they wouldn't have been able to play soccer. basically anything that gave them the individuality andjoy and empowerment they were finding through soccer, those things were going to be taken from them. the calculus for them was that's not a life we want to live, even if we can be safe, that's not something that we are going to stand for and stay around for. >> it's a heartbreaking story. it's a story of afghanistan. as you say, there's a thrilling element to it. you've got marines, a former cia special agent working to get them out of the country. it is an amazing film. it's called ayenda, it premiers this sunday at 10:00 p.m. eastern and streaming or peacock. director and producer marie margolius. ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a quick final break. quick final break. to earn you more cash back in your top eligible spend category. hi. ♪♪ you don't have to keep tabs on rotating categories... this is the only rotating i care about. ... or activate anything to earn. your cash back automatically adjusts for you. can i get a cucumber water? earn 5% cash back that automatically adjusts to your top eligible spend category, up to $500 spent each billing cycle with the citi custom cash℠ card. i love it... 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(sfx: family screams in background) right now on "ana cabrera reports," an image never before seen in american history, donald trump's mug shot released overnight after his unprecedented surrender at a georgia jail. the former president defiant and already looking to use this photo to his political advantage. and we're not done yet, two more co-defendants still expec t

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