co-defendant rudy giuliani. the title america's mayor was always mostly a myth. and now, reports say he's begging trump for help to pay his mounting legal bills. plus, president biden is touring the devastation left by the deadly maui wildfires. as the search continues for hundreds of people who are still missing. but we begin tonight with a manhunt for a man named christopher woral. he's a florida proud boy convicted of seven felony counts for his actions on january 6th, including physically attacking police officers and pepper spraying them. he was set to be sentenced last friday and was likely going to face several years in prison. but he nench showed up. and now no one knows where he is. and the thing that is like actually mind-blowing is that despite committing violent acts against police, he could go missing at all. but he could because he was allowed to leave jail and be under house arrest in florida since november of 2021. after he claimed he was not getting proper medical treatment for his non-hodgkin's lymphoma while in jail. so they let him await his sentencing at home instead. do you think that would happen to you if you were convicted of assaulting a cop, let alone a bunch of them? and one would like to believe christopher worrell is unique among the maga faithful, getting that kind of preferential treatment, right? but sadly, no, he's not. think about this. while more than 1,000 people have been charged for their part in the january 6th insurrection, few were actually arrested on that day. nearly all of them were free to go back to their hotels, calmly pack their luggage after breaching the capitol and committing violent assaults and just go home. these are people who livestreamed their crimes. they beat up police officers, some even defecated in the halls of congress. and yet, only a handful were put in the back of a police cruiser that day. that gentle treatment continues to this day. where we wait for donald trump and 18 other defendants named in the georgia election interference indictment to take their sweet time turning themselves in. they were given nearly two weeks to do as they pleased before coming in for the full treatment, the fingerprints, mugshots, et cetera. and today, trump's attorneys met with d.a. fani willis' office where they agreed to a $200,000 bond. it comes with certain stipulations, some are common like while on bond, trump can't break any state or federal laws, but his deal also comes with a unique set of stipulations about not intimidating any co-defendants or witnesses in the case that have not been applied to the bonds of any other co-defendant so far. the deal states that trump shall make no direct or indirect threat of any nature against any co-defendant, any witness, any victim. the community, or any property in the community. and that the above shall include but are not limited to posts on social media or reposts of posts made by another. now, that sure does sound like a quasi-gag order to me. i do have to wonder, though, how many people caught up in our justice system get to decide when they head to a police station, which brings us to mark meadows, who was trying to move his case from state court to federal court over the weekend. to federal court, but over the weekend, he upped his ask and is now looking to have this case thrown out completely. arguing like he did in a previous filing that he has immunity because his actions were all part of his government duties. sure, mark. because your government job includes trying to help a president steal an election? as for trump himself, he's showing no concern for the legal peril he's facing. spending his time on important matters like sitting down for an interview with fired fox anchor tucker carlson to run on, i guess, the elon app on the same night as the republican presidential debate later this week. i mean, these people are just going about their daily lives. when just about anyone else would already be booked, arraigned, and perhaps sitting in a jail cell. meanwhile, trump and his maga friends continue to double down on the same election lies that brought us to this exact moment. you have the my pillow guy holding yet another conspiracy conference where he once again accused mother/daughter election workers ruby freeman and shaye moss of stealing the election in georgia. and on his radio show, rudy giuliani yet again claimed to have new scientific evidence proving that widespread election fraud was real. >> yes, there are things we didn't present then because over the next couple of years, a lot of people did a lot of work, and have been able to produce more witnesses and what i would call scientific evidence that is very persuasive. >> ooh, i cannot wait to hear what that scientific evidence is. and then of course, trump himself continues to spew the same lies about the 2020 election, mostly in an attempt to swindle his supporters out of their money to pay his legal bills. but apparently not rudy's. joining me is melissa murray, nyu law professor. and tim miller, an msnbc political analyst. melissa, i will start with you. let's talk about the bond situation. i'm going to put them up, the ones we know about so far. trumps is 200k, john eastman, $100,000. ray smith, who was a trump campaign attorney, is $50,000. is it normal for people to be able to negotiate behind closed doors their bond? >> i think it's pretty unusual, although this may differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. but in most cases, again, the rank and file criminal defendant is probably not in a great position to negotiate with the prosecutors about the terms and scope of his or her bond. so again, these are high-profile defendants. the nature of the case against them is going to be watched by the american public, and it stands to reason that there are particular bond concerns that may not come into play in other cases, but again, this does seem pretty unusual. >> i mean, but the thing about it is one of the, you know, things where have noticed is that the maga people in general, including at the capitol, were definitely treated differently. there was no big wagon where they were throwing them in after they sacked the capitol. they went home. and now you have one of them who was allowed to go home for two years and now he's gone. i mean, good luck catching him. maybe he's in russia with putin. who knows where he is? it does seem to me, and you can tell me if i'm wrong and talk me down if i'm wrong, they are getting special treatment, all the way down to the bottom, they had lighter sentences for some legal experts than you would have gotten for assault and assaulting a police officer. some have gotten months rather than years in prison. in general, i feel like they have been treated from the bottom guy all the way to trump very, very differently than a normal person would. >> i think just generally, what we saw on january 6th is not the kind of thing you would ordinarily see in some run of the mill may lay that might happen in any other part of the united states. there was gentle treatment of all of those individuals. as we have seen, as more and more of those cases have been processed through the justice system, many of those defendants have actually gotten sentenced. again, i'm thinking specifically of the proud boys litigation with stewart rhodes. he got a very significant sentence. so yes, there has been some unevenness here, and also some real push to make sure individuals are held accountable and they were held accountable recognizing the gravity of the circumstances that they participated in. >> i know the government is looking for 30 years for enrique tarrio. and tim miller, sort of the premise right now among trump supporters and even people who are sort of soft trump supporters and there's this two-tiered justice system. all the people running against him are all using that line. yes there, is a two-tiered justice system, but trump and his friends are benefitting from it, not being hurt by it. there is no world in which a normal person would be treated this well, with 92 felony counts facing them. and the fact that he has time to go cut an interview with the guy who got fired from fox, and the fact he probably -- so far, he hasn't gotten a mugshot, even that alone, i wonder if behind the scenes if republicans tell you, come on, i know that what i'm saying is bs. because it's bs. >> no, they're delusional. actually, you broke the news to me. i hadn't seen that the tucker interview is pretaped. this isn't even news. they're holding it for three days and that's supposed to be the counterprogramming. anyway, that's a side point. the two-tiered justice system thing is a total farce. i'm telling you, joy, right now, the foundational untruth of everyone in republican circles, they feel like they're getting treated unfairly by the media, by the law, et cetera. it is absurd. but it is so deep seated that why none of trump's opponents are even daring challenge him, except for maybe chris christie. trump's opponents, the ones who are essentially trying to beat him, are echoing this point and saying that he's being treated unfairly, you know, hunter biden is getting a sweetheart deal. this is when it's all nonsense. it was the people in the trump inner circle that got pardoned. hunter got a worse deal than roger stone, who had much more serious crimes or paul manafort, for whom was pardoned after he literally was complicit in an attempt to overthrow the government. this all is crazy. but it is a widespread belief and a deeply held belief, and that's why all the candidates are echoing it. >> and to stay with you for a minute, tim, i feel like it is also what gave the doj pause. and what gave really the response on january 6th pause. there was reporting and there was a sense that because it was maga people, they used kid gloves with them. had that been black lives matter protesters or something else, they would have been armed to the teeth and ready. there has been a standing down and a fear of them. i wonder what you make of that. you have, it seems to me, to be even in the doj a sense that we don't want to go too hard. we have reported on this show, hunter biden, that tax charge, it's normally used for international criminal gangsters. like, they don't really charge that very often. but there is this sense of we have to be proportional and charge a biden with something. that's how it still feels to me, there's this attempt to really push a hunter biden something, something, something, just to say it's been done, and still lots of kid gloves for trump, yet they just don't see it. >> yeah, and a couple thoughts on that. one, joe biden gets no credit for this. joe biden left the trump appointed prosecutor in to go after his son, and essentially you would think that he would be -- people would be out there praising him, the more mainstream republicans who are left would say thank goodness. he gets nothing. they get attacked. kevin mccarthy is claiming he's orchestrating the indictments of trump because of his poll numbers. the whole thing is farcical. so look, my main criticism of dojy think they could have gone after the top guys harder. i think thank goodness fani willis is doing it, and good on her. a lot of the foot soldiers, who committed violence, are being treated seriously, and maybe there was a delay on all that, but i think the doj is doing a good job on that part. at the top, the heads, the mob bosses here, you know, they got to sit around for 3 1/2 years and i don't love that. >> pretty amazing. let's talk about the other thing, melissa. is that there is this attempt to delay into infinity this case, and jack smith, you know, has responsed. this is the response. in service of a proposed trial date in 2026 that would deny the public a right to a speedy trial, the defendant cites inopposite facts, and exaggerates the challenges of reviewing it effectively rather than discovery raised by the defendant empedes a fair trial. i won't read it all, but he's pretty harsh in responding to this. i think even that to me is a disparate treatment thing. they're attempting to argue their case should not be heard for years. that seems would be farcical if anyone else made that argument. >> joy, this is par for the course. every time donald trump has run into trouble, whether it's legal trouble or political trouble, the tactic and strategy has been to delay. we're going to see the delays in the mar-a-lago documents case before judge cannon in florida. we're going to see a delay tactic and we're seeing the government respond to that delay tactic in the district of columbia and we'll see the same in georgia. it's actually probably going to be even more pronounced in georgia because we have these 18 other defendants who are going to make the same moves. there's going to be another removal petition, i am sure, following mark meadows, and there will be these attempts to delay it, to move it to federal court. all of this is a delay strategy to get it beyond the 2024 election in the hopes that candidate trump may become president trump and may be able to do something certainly about the federal cases and may also just be able to push off the state cases to the point where they're inconsequential to him until the late part of his proposed term. >> and tim, when in doubt, try to fire all the prosecutors, right? there's an attempt to get fani willis removed off that case. georgia republicans have passed a law that might enable them to try to get rid of her to punish her for prosecuting trump. and then you have this. this is, to me, spectacular in its audacity. this is donald trump's spokesperson. her name is liz harrington. and she has said, she's given republicans some advice on what they need to do about his federal case. here she is. >> they need to defund the special counsel. they need to do something. they're on vacation now until september. so all we're going to get are sternly worded tweets. i'm sorry, that's not good enough and president trump has called the republicans out. the time for words are over, and president trump has been very clear, if they do not act, he will join any primary challenger, america first, that enters into the ring against these republicans, and they will win. >> tim, how many days before kevin mccarthy promises to do that? he's going to do it. he's going to try to do this, right? >> good fund the police, the federal police. is the maga phrase now. this whole thing, we're in the upside down. this is so crazy. the republicans are claiming the biden administration is politically targeting opponents. and even though they're not. and meanwhile, they're vowing if they get back in there, they're going to target political opponents. you know, and the whole thing is completely nonsense. it's bad faith all the way down. >> it is bizarre, melissa, and it is sort of a statement of their lack of faith in the legal system. because if donald trump -- donald trump wants to be the rule of law, what is he, the rule of law guy? they want to be the party of the rule of law. what they're saying it's the rule of law until it's us. then you need to defund the police, fire all the prosecutors and trump needs to pardon himself. that's their argument. >> that's always been the case, though, joy. none of these priniples have actually been principles. these have always been outcome determinative. that's why they can be inconsistent. you can say defund the police when individuals are heading out to protest george floyd, say defund the police is a step toward anarchy, but now that the president is in the cross hairs, you can now turn around and say defund the federal police. all of this is about outcome determinative, and the outcomes they want to see are ones that bolster and support their chosen person, their former president, their hopefully future president, donald trump. and that's certainly where all of this is going toward, propping up donald trump, making sure he's not just the candidate but he's successful. >> where is mitch mcconnell? i will note, his utter silence and the silence of the supposed normy republicans, why aren't they saying anything about this? they're not saying much. melissa murray, tim miller. tim, if any of them call you, can you call me and let me know? >> you'll be my first call. >> thank you very much. coming up next on "the reidout," the cult of trump. how his followers' blind emotion is disrupting america's political discourse and threatening our democracy. "the reidout" continues after this. power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley. to help prevent bleeding gums. try saying 'hello gumwash' with parodontax active gum health. it kills 99% plaque bacteria. and forms an antibacterial shield. try parodontax active gum health mouthwash. more shopping? you should watch your spending honey. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. check it out, you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, i'll look into that. let me put a reminder on my phone. save $700 dollars. pick up dad from airport? ohhhhhh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ (♪♪) rsv can be a dangerous virus... [sneeze] ...for those 60 and older. it's not just a cold. and if you're 60 or older... ...you may be at increased risk of hospitalization... [coughing] ...from this highly... ...contagious virus. not all dangers come with warning labels. talk to your pharmacist or doctor... ...about getting vaccinated against rsv today. the first republican presidential primary debate is wednesday. but a certain four-times indicted former president plans to skip the fox hosted affair. trump campaign adviser told nbc news that trump will be at his bedminster club that night instead. in an apparent jab at fox, trump has already recorded an interview with tucker carlson. it remains unclear how and when the interview will be posted but the move has forced the once trump fawning network to its knees. "the new york times" reports bret baier has spoken to trump at least four times over the phone, most recently this weekend to try to coax him out of bedminster. will trump show up or not? or will primary voters even watch if trump's not there. they made their choice clear, according to recent polls. in an nbc poll, 42% of likely republican caucuses in iowa said trump was their first choice out of 14 republican presidential candidates while 19% picked ron desantis. in a cbs poll, likery republican primary voters chose trump by 62%. the weird devotion to a man facing rico charges does not end there. among those voters, 71% hold trump as the source of true information, surpassing friends and family, conservative media, and even religious leaders. these people trust trump more than they trust their pastor. this from the party of white evangelicals and christian nationalists. then again, not really that surprising because maga is a cult, and trump is the jim jones to their kool-aid crew. their blind loyalty is stronger than ever, for a man who is clearly running for president to stay out of prison. joining me is charlie sykes, editor at large of the bulwark, and steven hassan, founder of the freedom of mind resource center, and author of "the cult of trump." i do want to start with you about this, because that poll, that response that trump is trusted as the source of true information more than conservative media, friends and family, and even religious leaders, is shocking but not vising to me. i wonder what you think of it. >> well, you know, the members are programmed to distrust mainstream media, so i'm not surprised at all about that. that those numbers, but from my point of view as a former cult member myself, who has been working for 47 years hoping people to get out of cults, i think we could change our messaging dramatically, and actually maybe get a third away from trump if we're smart with the messaging that we do. >> do tell. how? >> well, so the thing is, when you're dealing with an authoritarian pyramid structured cult that used deception and mind control, one has to assume that people had a life before they ever heard of trump. so the idea is to reconnect with who they were before they ever got converted and radicalized. and it's family members, friends, members in the community, if they're coached to be respectful, curious, ask questions in a way that has weight and get them back to thinking about what did they think they were doing when they first chose trump. and knowing what they know now, going back in time, would they actually trust anybody in business or anyone in -- would they marry someone who is a pathological liar that lied 35,000 times? but not in an accusatory way, and not calling them names, morons and stupid, as i hear some people in the media. because honestly, a lot of smart people get deceived and mind controlled into destructive cults like myself, for example. >> yeah. you know, charlie, you do talk radio. i used to do talk radio. there's an art to persuasion and this sort of family dynamic in a talk show, people are sort of in a closed circle, and you can talk to them and convince them of lots of things. at this point, among likely iowa -- 41% say trump should continue as the republican party's leader. 57% say either that trump was a good president but it's time to consider other party leaders or the party needs a new leader. so to steven's point, there are people who are open to something new. but among republican caucusgoers, two-thirds don't believe he's committed crimes. he's got 92 -- 94 felony counts. they don't think he's done anything wrong. the insulation is really, really strong. and there isn't a lot of pushback. what do you make of what steven said about how you can sort of draw people out of this? >> well, some of us have been trying to do that for eight years and you can see how successful we have been. this is a cult, and it is -- the numbers that you read out before, that people trust donald trump more than they trust religious leaders, more than they trust their family and friends, this is after all of the lies, after all of the fraud, after the coup attempt, after being charged with violating the espionage act, after being accused of racketeering, and yet in a cult, of course, you demand belief despite the falsehoods. you demand loyalty despite the character. we have seen people have gone in the opposite direction. people who used to claim that character matters now decide that character doesn't matter. the partiy of law and order sehe's a criminal but he's our criminal. the deprogramming that might work in other cases is -- it's obviously proven to be difficult, in part because there is this vast media ecosystem that re-enforces the cult-like behavior, that attacks anyone that tries to do any of the deprogramming or tells the truth. look what happens to the people within the republican party who have tried to say, hey, you wouldn't raise your kids this way. you wouldn't hire an employee like this. look what's happening to them. look what's happened to liz cheney, to adam kinzinger. look at the poll results for even chris christie. so this is part of a problem that we face now, in the republican party, and look, there are a lot of republicans that look at this and are horrified. and yet, they are either unable or unwilling to break donald trump's hold on this party. >> yeah. or they're like nikki haley and they switch to the other side and go right back to, you know, worshiping him. >> if i could -- >> i just wanted to ask you because there's a violent side to this religious belief in trump. and look, we don't know what the specific person, you know, whether this person voted for trump, but you have now had this real anger against the lgbtq community. you had a woman who just had a pride flag in her window, a store owner, who was shot and killed. you know, and apparently, she had gotten several disparaging remarks about having the rainbow flag. this is costing people real trauma and costing them their lives. there was a woman named esther salas, a former federal judge, who was just on with the wonderful nicolle wallace, and she talked about losing her son. do we have time? let's play it real quick. this is esther salas. >> i always think of sally fields and you know that movie that she played, i think it was steel magnolias and she's talking, she's saying i was there when that beautiful baby came into the world. and i was there with him. so sort of like a blessing that he knew his parents were right there, and you know, it was the worst day of my life. but i have to stay in the light. i have to, you know, i have to honor him. >> in this environment, steve, it's more than just bad politics. again, we don't know whether this person -- who this person voted for, but this was the summer of 2020. we're in an angry era where the targets are people like judges, fbi agents. you could go on and on, people with rainbow flags. that's where we are. >> yeah, the emotional manipulation, fear, attacking the enemy, satan is in the opposition, et cetera, but facts are not going to deprogram people. asking questions, making parallels to chinese communist brain washing and to pimps and traffickers and explaining behavior control and information control, thought control, and emotional control. there are ways to message, but it's got to be more indirect but respectful. and as far as the violence, i just want to say, my former cult that was at january 6th has a gun cult. and they have ar-15s and a gun factory and two training compounds. so guess what, i'm really worried about this violent rhetoric, too. and so what i really would like to see is more educational messaging that will teach people how to interact with their loved ones and build bridges because trust me, people wake up. when they do, they're pissed off, and we can reach these people, but we have to understand mind control. >> i'm going to have you both back on to talk about this more because this is a fascinating topic and it's really important because it's quite frightening. charlie and steven, thank you. still ahead, from america's mayor to an unindicted co-conspirator in an attempt to overturn an american election. if that sounds like a fall from grace, rudy giuliani's tactics were never really that graceful. be right back. ancestry made it really easy to learn about my family's history. finding military information, newspaper articles, how many people were living in the house and where it was, makes me curious and keeps pulling me in and the photos reminding me of what life must have been like for them. finding out new bits of information about the family has been a wonderful experience, it's an important part of understanding who we are. rudy giuliani. i mean, think about it. rudy giuliani. there's only three things he mentioned in the sentence, a noun, a verb, and 9/11. there's nothing else. there's nothing else. and i mean this sincerely. he is genuinely not qualified to be president. >> then senator joe biden was right back in 2007. after 9/11, mayor rudy giuliani spent decades dining out on the myth of his great leadership of new york. and burnishing his reputation standing in the smoldering remains of the world trade center. but if you know much about rudy, you know that the myth far exceeds the reality and the truth is he was always an opportunist who peddled lies, traded on racism and left his moral compass at the door. in 1992, mayoral candidate giuliani cheered on a violent mob of off-duty police officers who screamed racist slurs during a protest against america's first black mayor, david dinkins and the civilian complaint review board. as mayor, giuliani championed stop and frisk, which was used disproportionately in black and brown neighborhoods. the new york civil liberties union wrote in the 7 1/2 years before 9/11, let there be no mistake, racial bias and fearmongering were the hallmarks of his mayoral piece. he refused to relocate the emergency control center out of the world trade center, despite it having been the target of a truck bomb attack in 1993. and it was giuliani who helped purdue pharma get away a slap on their wrist, calling it a favor from the doj to help russia's sweetheart deal, letting purdue continue selling oxycontin to americans and preventing any further prosecution of the company or the sackler family who owned it. what a guy. oh, and giuliani's currently being sued by a former employee for $10 million for allegedly aggressively pursuing a sexual relationship with her. throw in his apparent begging his former client donald trump for financial help and what you get is a noun, a verb, and pathetic. joining me is jamelle bouie. and also the author of a piece with which i 100% agree, which is a great reason to talk to you. because i have never been -- i have never understood the sort of love of giuliani, and other than, you know, people saying he made times square more like disney land. i'm not sure why he was so admired. he had one good day on 9/11. that was about it. your thoughts. >> i think that's right. he's always been a divisive figure. he's always had a large amount of criticism directed towards him from his first campaign for mayor to his time as mayor to the time after the september 11th attacks. i really think it's those attacks and his performance on that day which kind of created this myth of giuliani, america's mayor, that he had really posted on but hasn't been questioned much in terms of his national political image. what's been interesting about the past few years is there has been this conversation along the lines of what happened to rudy giuliani to make him -- to put himself in this position with regard to donald trump? the fact of the matter is if there's anything that's authentically rudy giuliani, it's his recent behavior with regards to donald trump. >> and the thing is, when i think of giuliani, i think of patrick doorsman, he got shot by police officers in plain clothes, and giuliani's response to that was to say, well, he was no alter bye. he was literally an alter boy. the idea he didn't want to hauv the command center to brooklyn, so he kept it in the world trade center, and even this gross sexual assault thing, where he's making sexual favors a condition of his aides' employment. this has always been him, but people wanted to believe something different after 9/11. >> adding to that litany of officers is that in the wake of 9/11, he wanted to cancel new york's next mayoral election to stay in power. which if there's anything that's going to link him up with donald trump's recent behavior, it's exactly that. if you're ever wondering why would rudy giuliani stipulate he's not great, sign on to defending the former president in the wake of this insurrection, there it is. there you have it. this is a guy who simply does not respect the fact that your term being up means you have to hand over power. he's part of the same -- he's the same type of person as donald trump right down to the fundamentals. >> well, and also his mayoral team was very much like trump's presidency. the same type of divisiveness, along the same lines. bigotry against muslims, bigotry against african americans. he kind of was trump of new york city. i wonder what you make of the fact now he's in this position where he's like $3 million in debt with legal bills. lost his law license. he can't even represent himself, and having to beg trump on bended knee to pay his bills and help him out. >> that to me is the story of any association with donald trump over the past eight years now. that again and again and again, consistently, people linked up with trump in hopes of furthering their careers or advancing their political ambitions or maybe just making a little money. and without fail, they end up broke, in legal trouble, and trump is not willing to help them. and it's the same with rudy giuliani. again and again, people seem to think that donald trump will be loyal to them after they have shown loyalty to him. and that's simply never been the case. that wasn't the case when he was a real estate mogul, that wasn't the case when he was a celebrity. the guy just isn't loyal. and it's no surprise to me that giuliani now that he's on the downslope, finds himself bereft of any help from the guy who he really went to bat for. >> the thing is people will remember they did that skit where they both dressed in drag and did sort of a mocking thing of that, like, they have had a relationship for a really long time, have been friends. but to your point, donald trump doesn't care about that. he doesn't care about his kids. i'm not sure he would help them. he's definitely not going to help rudy. jamelle bouie, thank you very much. up next, tennessee lawmakers begin to special session that was supposed to address gun violence but the republican speaker had something else in mind. we'll bring you 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need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ the tennessee house began a special session a couple hours ago with the same energy from the republican majority as this spring, when they expelled democratic representatives justin jones and justin pearson for daring to demand gun reform after a mass shooting at a nashville school. they were both re-elected in special elections and today at the special session which was called by republican governor bill lee to tackle public safety and mental health but apparently not gun reform, we found out the real agenda. moments after the session began, republicans approved new rules of order which seems to be aimed at preventing protests. the new rules include limiting the number of people who can watch the special session, making designated space for lobbyists, and silencing any member ruled out of order. >> we did not come up here for this special session to limit speech of the members of this body. we came up here to tackle a problem or at least some of us thought we were going to, with gun violence that is impacting this state that has killed countless people and school children. and instead, we're starting off amending the rules of this body it's ridiculous. this is absurd. this is absurd. shame on every single one of you who voted for these rules. >> joining me now is tennessee state representative, justin jones, representative jones, i understand you've already been ruled out of order, but under the old rules. why were you ruled out of order? >> hi joy. just got back from the chamber, i was ruled out of order because i questioned, as we were debating the rules, where the rules does it say how we can hold the speaker accountable for abusing his gavel and silencing members from speaking. we brought a megaphone to the house floor in spring because our microphones were cut off. rather than answer, the speaker cut off my microphone again and said i was not allowed to. speak under these new rules that we just voted on that the republicans approved, it was strictly a party line vote. -- then indefinitely going forward from there. it seems like my republican colleagues are more concerned with stopping the scent than stopping the crisis of mass shootings that should be the focus of this special session. protecting kids and not guns. >> it definitely feels very totalitarian. some of the other rules they pass today, why are they limiting the number of people who can be in the room? why do lobbyists get special seating? that seems to be a part of the new rules. >> today was the first time in tennessee history that we have had the rotunda, the court of people could not even gather in a historic place of people voicing their opinions. the tennessee constitution says in the peoples house the door should be opened. instead -- just for lobbyist to have special seats. people can only sit on the left side. we silenced the set. this is the more egregious thing that was clarified. you can no longer bring a paper signed to -- but you can bring a gun to committee rooms. this is morally insane what is happening in tennessee. >> that is, okay, that is insane. governor bill lee initially called a special session, the idea was to do red flag laws. you can temporarily remove firearms from someone who has been judged in danger. apparently that's off the table, right? that's not happening. are you guys going to vote on any gun reform legislation, and if, so what? >> many of us have tried to introduce bills against common sense gun laws. things like a ban on -- almost everything we introduced was not allowed to go through to be heard in calendar and committee to begin the process. what they did is they bowed down to the forces who are here at the capitol today. today outside the capital, as you come to the capitol, joy, the proud boys had a banner and they were standing. either they were intimidating members in the hallway. you had people come with ar-15s standing around our capital. so how are we to feel safe as members when they are emboldening these extremists there. there calling them to come here, this is who they are accountable and in solidarity with, no white nationalists who are threatening our multi racial democracy. threatening children, mothers, families who are at the capitol today, begging for their lives. this is a very dangerous territory that we are. in a very dangerous place. it is because of the speaker of the house who has created this extreme environment, that is put the lives of the people of tennessee at risk. especially here at the capitol right now. >> can i ask you to reiterate that? we understand that the protesters, a couple hundred people who were protesting on the side of gun reform, you are saying the counterprotesting colluded proud boys and proud boys and people who had ar-15s were amassed outside of the tennessee state house? >> so there were many more people protesting for common sense gun laws. but this small group of fragile, predominantly white men, were gathered outside their. dollar general colors in their signs. they also had a banner hanging from the capitol. they were gathered at the steps. some of them were calling members around the hallway, had to have my assistant lock the doors of our office. we don't know who will keep us safe in this building. we know that the speaker and his republican majority don't care about our safety, or the safety of tennesseeans in general. they did a dog whistle called to response to bring the proud boys. here that is who showed up on behalf of stopping common sense gun lies, because that's who isn't aligned with. them the majority of people who are fighting for what we are fighting for, which is common sense gun laws to keep our children safe -- and the nra. >> i want everybody to hear that. they are allowing firearms inside of committee rooms, but not a piece of paper with a protest. they are not allowing protesters in. they are barring people from witnessing what is not even democracy anymore, in the state of tennessee. you can only call it totalitarianism. we would like to invite the speaker of the tennessee house, you are welcome to come on this show. we would really like to talk to you. i've some questions for you. so please come on, speaker sexton. tennessee state representative, justin jones, stay safe and thank you very much. we will have you back as well. coming up next, president biden visits maui, in the wake of its wildfire disaster. as teams continue their search for more than 800 still unaccounted for. stay with us. ♪i'm hearing different ways for me to screen for colon cancer.♪ ♪it's time to use my voice,♪ ♪i've got a choice, more than one answer.♪ ♪i sat down with my doc.♪ we had a talk. ♪knew just what to say.♪ ♪i asked for cologuard and did it my way.♪ cologuard is a one-of-a kind way to screen for colon cancer that's effective and non-invasive. it's for people 45 plus at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your 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