are still talking. nbc news has confirmed when former nypd commissioner will meet with prosecutors. what his lawyer told us. a whole lot of questions and a whole lot to talk about. let's start with reporting. ryan riley is outside district courthouse in d.c. ken dilanian is at the justice department. here in new york, dasha burns and lisa ruben. also with us is former prosecutor, david aaron. we know the grand jury broke for lunch. they came back. now they appear to have left for the day. bring us up to speed. >> yeah. i think the critical takeaway from this is we did not see the grand jury foreperson actually leave the building. i think if you read the tea leaves there, you might be able to ascertain what's happening going forward. we don't have basically we do not have any indications that this grand juror, the foreperson, has been in any courtroom thus far. we're sort of going around checking out the courtrooms to see if there's a hearing going on. what has to happen is this has to be returned in open court. that may came down as being announced as u.s. versus d tod jt, but they can get fin ki with that rule. there's the potential they just open up one of these courtroom, sneak some people in the back, return this indictment in court then sort of end it there. so we don't know where things sort of stand now. all we know is really that this grand jury met for the day and we did not see any indicators that the grand jury foreperson actually left. >> lisa, a lot of moving parts here. what are you watching for and what's your read on where we are? >> i think we're at the point where either the grand jury foreperson has already presented a true bill to a judge within that d.c. federal courthouse or is in the process of doing so. and there after, either the indictment will be sealed or immediately unsealed and my guess is we're somewhere in between. that the special counsel's office has learned their lesson in dealing with donald trump. they know what happens when they seal something for a few days. he fills any information back in that they leave. so they may be sealing it only for a couple of hours. will notify his counsel that he's been indicted then take it upon themselves to release this information to the public. >> david, what typically happens during that final meeting between the grand jury and prosecutors? is it just a yes or not indictment vote or is it more complicated than that? >> it varies. i would imagine it would be on the more complicated end of this one. the grand jurors could have legal questions. there could be additional instructions the prosecutor will provide as the grand jury considers that draft indictment before voting on it. >> dasha, what's the latest from trump? we know he's been preparing according to his social media posts. >> we've seen this pattern more than once now. as the legal troubles mount, the political fight hardens. while his lawyers might be focused on what's coming from that legal front, it is really the politics, the campaign. and his opponents that he's focused on. case in point, today, he has posted multiple times about ron desantis, going after him. talking about desantis' interview on fox news last night. calling him ungrateful and disloyal to him, saying that he, he's the reason he is the governor of florida right now. so we saw this in the last couple of indictments as well. this is the moment that he tries to really use to capitalize on because he knows his name is going to be everywhere. this is going to run the news cycle and so he likes to take that and use that moment to make sure that his voters are rallying around him. and look, this might work with the hardened base but as i've been out there talking to voters, there's a sense of fatigue among republican primary voters. not the super trumpy base, but some folks who are perhaps not as quick to jump and rally. the protests are getting smaller. some folks are not showing up at all anymore. it's not that they're fully turning away or necessarily buying into the arguments of the prosecutors, but they're saying you know what, we're seeing this again, again, again. let's put this to the side. what do you have to say about the issues that we care about, those kitchen table problems. >> so there's some fatigue when it comes to all of the investigation and indictment talk. but we know, ken, that trump likes to control the narrative and he often has been out front on announcements. we learn from him that he was a target of this investigation. it was him who told us last time around during the classified documents indictment that he had been indicted. we know it's common practice for the doj to notify lawyers before an indictment is made public. so how might we learn about this indictment? do you think trump's going to be the first one to announce it again? >> it's possible. you're right. it is common practice. not a rule but something the department of justice likes to do to maintain good relations with the lawyers in a case and they want the lawyers of the target to learn from the news media that the target has been indicted. it's possible we could hear if this grand jury voted to indict today and if it's going to be made public today. it's possible trump could scoop the justice department. also possible it wouldn't happen. to dasha's point, i get the same thing when i'm talking to folks about which case is this. what indictment. there's so much complexity around the legal proceedings involving donald trump. but this investigation i would argue is different and we're going to, if we see an indictment, it may well be a speaking indictment and may speak to the historical nature of this. the first time if it's the charges we believe are under consideration, a former president would have been charged with trying to overturn the lawful results of an election. arguably more serious than what richard nixon was impeached for. we're in a much different place today. different news media and body politic and divisions with greater. we shouldn't lose sight of the e normty of this moment. >> this is different. >> it's different and also i want to underscore that it's sad. i think a lot of our viewers think that because on this network we have perspective and analysis that takes a particular viewpoint, that many of us are happy or even glib or giddy about this moment. i don't share that. our colleague andrew weissman and mary mcchord have a podcast where they interviewed the former conservative appellate judge that advised former vice president pence in the days leading up to january 6th. he basically said to andrew, this moment makes me sad because former president trump brought this on all of us. but it is a stain on our nation if he's indicted for election interference and we shouldn't lose sight of is that. the weight of the moment as ken was describing it is weighing on me because it will be a tragedy for our nation. >> david, right now, we've all been going off of the criminal statutes outlined in the target letter when it comes to what could be an indictment. so when it comes to the charges, when it comes to the scope, what are you looking out for in an indictment? >> well, you know, of course the nature of the charges. which charges the prosecutors select. that will be initially be the most important thing. they stick with what is laid out in the reports in the target letter or do they go beyond that. the 371 the conspiracy charge, you know is that a conspiracy to defraud the united states or to commit a crime that we don't yet know about. through the media. the civil rights charge was meaningful to hear about. this statute, this civil rights statute, goes back to why we have a department of justice in the first place. the post reconstruction roots of the department. i think this is going to be a very meaningful charge if it is included. one that everyone can relate to. perhaps more than the charge about classified information, which is very close to my heart, but not everyone can relate to a classified information charge. the civil rights charge here, the idea of depriving voters of their right to vote or of the meaning of their vote, i think that's going to be very compelling. >> we just heard lisa talk about the judge who served as an expert witness in the january 6th hearing to counsel vice president pence that he did not have the power to do what trump wanted him to do on january 6th. he was on this podcast and not only did he talk about the stain on this country if this goes forward, but he believes trump wants this indictment. take a listen. >> this indictment for january 6th if it does come, would never have come except for the fact that the former president wanted to be indicted for his role on january 6th. he's dared and taunted and provoked, first the department of justice then after jack smith was appointed special counsel, jack smith, to indict him. >> david, what do you make of that? >> it's an interesting idea. you know, you can see perhaps a desire to be connected to a movement that a lot of people associate themselves with. what i don't know about the coming indictment is whether it will actually include anything related to the violence of that day. there can be fraud involving the electoral count. there could be efforts to suppress votes, efforts to spread false information that aren't tied directly to that day. for a variety of reasons, it will be interesting to see how the special counsel handles any connection to that day. >> dasha, do you think he wants this indictment that's coming? >> i'll tell you anytime there's talk of another indictment coming, there is a little bit of fear from the other campaigns that okay, here we go. the oxygen is going to be taken out of the room again. and for that trump base, there is this sense of we are in the trump club. we are in this together and there's, there is nothing like that in the history of politics i think that resembles this feeling that when you talk to folks who are in that club, when something like this comes down, especially you know to your point, lisa, when it comes to january 6th and this indictment in particular, the sadness and the gravity that so many of us feel, i think there's also a gravity that folks that are very much behind the former president feel with this, where they feel that he absolutely was in the right to say and do what he did on that day. so i think for him, he wants, he really thrives when he feels that very raw, very authentic support that a lot of folks have. the connection he has made with those people, that's not a connection that a lot of politicians have made with voters. >> i've been reading some of the sound that's come through from voters that i know you and some of our colleagues have been interviewing at these trump events and you hear over and over again, they believe trump wholeheartedly that he is the victim here in being a target of these investigations. just want to circle back to the podcast and the judge. he says he thinks both of smiths trials, assuming there's an indictment, that both cases would move forward, that both would happen before the 2024 election. i've heard different opinions from different experts on this question. where do you stand? how likely is it that this is wrapped up before americans vote? >> on the mar-a-lago case, you know, assuming that special counsel is finished superseding and adding defendants, charges, i think that's very possible. that will get done in that time frame. you know, we've talked a lot about complications of classified information can introduce into a case. that seems to be being dealt with and i think there's more than enough time in that schedule. for this next one, it's going to be telling whether the special counsel goes with a streamlined focused indictment or a more all encompassing indictment. if it's all encompassing and wide ranging and there are multiple coconspirators and a lot of need to prove states of mind that rely on circumstantial evidence, that could be a much more complicated case. much more complicated than proving that someone possessed information in an unauthorized place and tried to cover it up. a conspiracy such as that which might be alleged in the election case, it could be a lot harder to prove and have a lot more complicated discovery. more parties. and it's starting later. >> ryan, you and i talked about how many other january 6th people have been charged and ultimately pleaded guilty or have been convicted and sentenced. and so there are these ongoing investigations still related to january 6th and election interference in states all over the country. even though there could be this indictment here for donald trump and his involvement, prosecutors are still talking to witnesses in this trump case specifically with the special counsel investigation. what do we know about carrick and other actions still to come? >> yeah, you know, it's something i think about a lot because when i go to these hearings and see people sort of have their lives torn about because they believed the lies trump was spreading during the 2020 campaign, it's quite something. for a lot of them, the fever hasn't broken. they still believe these lies he was spreading at the time even though all these lawsuits were thrown out quickly and there was no evidence to suggest there was anything remotely near what he was pretending that there was. no legal experts were saying that. but there was a whole community online that was just feeding into this narrative that there was massive election fraud. a lot of the people who were being sentenced still believe it to this day and it just makes me think, sadly, this indictment, whenever it comes out, is probably not going to be read by the people who most need to read it ultimately. i think that's, you know, a sad sort of state of affairs. in this courtroom, you're going to see people have their lives torn apart because they believed these lies the president was spreading. we saw just the other week with a 19-year-old or 18-year-old at the time who actually went up to the senate gallery and basically got himself on to the floor. jumped down from that balcony. his parents were outside. in appearances previously before the judge, they said i'm so sorry. i'm embarrassed i fell for these lies. i should have known better. i'm an adult. please take pity on my child. he didn't know better but i should have. it's just really amazing to see this, grown adults recognize themselves as being fooled by all this and then you know, seeing someone's life get torn apart. in the end, he ended up getting sentenced to a year in prison. much lower than what we've seen from others. he's 21 now. this is something that's going to follow him for the rest of his life. that he got tricked by these lies the president was spreading. i think it will be interesting to see how the january 6th media reacts to ultimately trump being held accountable in some way for the actions that led up to january 6th. >> dasha, we've been hearing all of these legal troubles are taking a big financial toll on the president. he's kind of in a financial disaster. >> we know from recent filings that a lot of his political groups, a lot of the coffers, have really been drained. which again, while trump might be focused on the politics and kind of letting the lawyers deal with the legal stuff, this is impacting him politically. when you need money to be in your pac, to be on the air and do all the things that a campaign needs to do. if these legal troubles are costing him politically, that could be a serious problem going forward. >> thank you all so much. so much more to discuss as we watch every movement that's happening at that d.c. courthouse. i really appreciate it. lisa, dasha, ken, ryan and david. please stay close as we continue throughout the hour. still ahead for us right now, the racist e-mail sent to fani willis has her charging decision against donald trump looms. plus, the gilgo beach murder suspect back in court today. what's next for the man charged with three counts of first degree murder. and lizzo known for promoting body positivity, now accused of weight shaming her own dancer. we'll have the details in the lawsuit against her. we're back in 60 seconds. t her. we're back in 60 seconds game t? 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( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ ) can't stop adding stuff to your cart? get the bank of america customized cash rewards card, choose the online shopping category and earn 3% cash back. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ to georgia now and district attorney. fani willis has urged commissioner to quote stay alert and stay safe ahead of a potential indictment of donald trump in her investigation. in her warning, she shares a racist, threatening e-mail she received as she prepares to announce charging decisions into the investigation of trump's attempts. willis noted it was one of many threats her office has received. this as the fulton county sheriff's office makes security preparations outlined during a press conference that just wrapped up. joining us from atlanta, nbc news correspondent, blaine alexander. what did we hear in the fulton county sheriff about the security plans? >> reporter: well, it's clear they have been preparing for the possibility of indictment. they've been preparing for months and he says they have been having near daily meetings about this. he wouldn't list the number of agencies or the different agencies but says nobody's been left out when they talk about discussions around security. he's gone to other places where they've seen indictments. he's sent deputies to miami. to manhattan. he says that if there is an indictment in d.c., he's going to send team members up there, too, just to kind of watch this process, to observe and see what worked, what didn't work and what intelligence they can bring back here in fulton county. i asked him about that. >> talk to me about what preparation looks like. how are you going to be securing this area and are these streets going to be passable? >> we had an opportunity to visit new york, visit miami then prepare accordingly. some of the streets may be passable. we'll push out the perimeteras needed. really having the courthouse open for our customers. >> what would arraignment look like? would he come to the courthouse? >> we will see. any other high profile persons that are indicted the same. >> so that means mug shots. fingerprints. t. >> a lot of that will be up to the judge. >> you heard him say he's not going to be treated any differently. i think another thing that's important to note is that you see the orange barricades across is street. if there's an indictment, we're going to see the perimeter expand. security get much tighter, thicker. they've considered everything from protesters, an area for protesters, to a number of different threats. he says dozens of threats they've received in recent weeks. >> did the sheriff say anything more about this hate mail and how they are ensuring the safety of willis and those in her office? >> i asked him about that specifically. he said he and the d.a. have gotten targeted, vulgar e-mails. he said that's nothing but when they talk about the security plan, that's something they're going to take into account. again, they're going to make sure they really widen out this perimeter as things get going. didn't give us a lot of details, but said they're going to continue meeting. possible we'll see plain clothes officers. >> thank you. an armed man shot by police after opening fire outside a jewish school in memphis. what we know about the shooter. first, quote, they cry themselves to sleep. what the now estranged wife of 2 gilgo beach murder suspect about how her and her kids are handling his arrest. her and here handling his arrest. 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ask your doctor about every-other-month cabenuva. every other month, and i'm good to go. the man of being a serial keller was back in court today. he made his first court appearance since he pleaded not guilty to three counts of first degree murder just a couple of weeks ago. today was a bail and discovery hearing. ron allen joins us from outside the courthouse in river head, new york. what are we learning, ron? >> reporter: we saw him in the courtroom for five to seven minutes. he was dressed in a dark gray, black jacket, tan pants and he was wearing handcuffs. he stood through the entire proceeding. he towers over everyone and he looked at the prosecution as the prosecution outlined some evidence against him. most of this hearing was about this massive amount of evidence the prosecution says it has and how it's going to hand it over to the defense. they describe 2500 pages of documents and photographs. hundreds of hours of security footage. here's the d.a. talking about the hearing afterwards. >> we need to continue to comply with the discovery requirements. we're working with the court, with defense counsel. that discovery's going to be going out on a rolling basis. as you know was indicated in court, it's a tremendous amount of material. so we're going to continue to provide that. obviously, you know, the defense is going to need time to digest all of that which we're giving. >> he said it's 13 years of investigative work. a massive amount of paperwork and other forms of evidence. and the next hearing in this case was set for september 27th. >> ron, his estranged wife is now breaking her silence after she filed for divorce and after police say they collected massive amounts of evidence from the family's home. what is she saying? >> reporter: she was not here today and we do think though that there was some of the victims' relatives, family members here. the d.a. wouldn't disclose who they were, how many there were. as for the suspect's wife, she has been complaining and upset about the fact that the search of her home ransacked the home and the d.a. today said that she can file any kind of relief that she wants or seek any kind of relief that she wants. basically, she has been saying that her life has been destroyed. that this completely blind sided her. that she has nothing to do with this. she has two adult children who are in their 30s and late 20s. they are of course upset about all of this as well but we have not seen them today and they are asking for and hoping for privacy. not just for them, but for their entire neighborhood. hoping they can get back to some kind of normalcy as this process continues. >> thank you. coming up, a memphis man is in custody after opening fire outside a jewish school that he tried and failed to enter. how police tracked him down and stopped a potential mass shooting. d stopped a potential mass shooting meats fresh. that's why soccer pros like me profer the grand slam ham. and this rookie prefers fresh sliced turkey. perfect for when you're subbed out of the game. and if we profer it, we know you'll prefer it too. nothing better than a sub, sub. choosing a treatment for your chronic migraine - 15 or more headache days wa month, each lasting 4 hours or more - can be overwhelming. so, ask your doctor about botox®. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start. it's the #1 prescribed branded chronic migraine treatment. so far, more than 5 million botox® treatments have been given to over eight hundred and fifty thousand chronic migraine patients. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. don't receive botox® if there's a skin infection. tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. in a survey, 92% of current users said they wish they'd talked to their doctor and started botox® sooner. so, ask your doctor if botox® is right for you. learn how abbvie could help you save on botox®. the first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. start for free at godaddy.com every day, more dog people are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food. there was a male white with a gun. >> we need officers to go to every jewish facility in memphis with that description in case he tries another facility. >> memphis police are calling it an unbelievably close call. a potential mass shooting in memphis stopped only by a locked door. the suspect is in critical condition after he was shot by police following a man hunt. police say he tried to force his way inside a hebrew school and opened fire when he couldn't get inside. thankfully, there were no other injuries. guad, what are we learning about this suspect and his potential motives? >> we're waiting for local authorities to reveal more information on the suspect. his identity has not been revealed but we know he arrived at the school and as you mentioned, there was a safety procedure in place that kept the suspect from entering the campus. he then got in his truck and drove away. the information the school shared with authorities was essential for them to locate him minutes from the school where he was confronted by a police officer who then shot him, indicating the suspect got out of his vehicle with a gun. now the congressman in tennessee, u.s. congressman steve cohen, did share information on his website indicating he had learned that the suspect is jewish and had attended the school. the investigation is now being led by state authorities and we are still waiting for authorities to present charges against the suspect. here's what local police had to say yesterday about the incident. >> that school had a great safety procedure and process in place and avoided anyone being harmed or injured at that scene. we cannot thank the people at hebrew academy enough for their vigilance and ability to get information to us. >> the last update indicates the suspect was taken into custody and to a hospital in critical condition. again, the tennessee bureau of investigations is leading this case. i think the next big piece of information here is of course going to be the identity of the suspect and also the charges that could be presented against him. >> keep us posted. thanks so much. now to pittsburgh where jurors are deliberating whether the man convicted of the deadliest antisemitic attack ever on u.s. soil should receive the death penalty. the jury must be unanimous for that to happen. if not, the convicted shooter will receive a life sentence for gunning down 11 worshippers. joining us from pittsburgh is kathy park. i understand that there's already been an unexpected issue with the jurors? what happened? >> reporter: hey, ana, good afternoon. shortly after deliberations got underway around 9:00 this morning, the jury wanted to review the weapons used in the attack once more. the judge granted that request then when the jury actually came in to see those guns, there was a point when some of the jurors questioned the u.s. marshal in the room. defense caught wind of this. quickly raised this issue with the judge. the marshal took the stand and had to recall their conversation and ultimately, the judge said look, the jurors, you can't use any of that information, the conversation, as part of the evidence. >> okay. kathy park, thank you. we'll await their verdict once they reach it. appreciate it. in michigan, a judge is hearing what we expect will be the final day of hearing in the sentencing hearing for the oxford high school shooter. then he will have to decide whether 17-year-old ethan crumbley will spend his life behind bars with or without the possibility of parole. he was 15 years old at the time. he has already pleaded guilty to 24 felonies including first degree murder and terrorism. maggie vespa is following this for us. today was the defense's turn. what arguments are you hearing? >> essentially, the arguments boil down to the defense team saying ethan came from a violent home. that he's grappling with severe mental health issues that he wrote about wanting help for in his journal, including elements of psychosis. basically writing about wanting to torture small children, that he had an affinity and had tortured baby birds and kind of also pointing to really disturbing facets of premeditation in the shooting including on the morning of the shooting, the prosecution saying he stuffed his ears with tissue paper to protect his hearing while carrying out the rampage. noting that michigan does not have a death penalty, what we're weighing basically is life in prison with or without the possibility of parole. >> because he was 15 at the time, age, that's a big factor here. what can the judge consider in deciding whether he will be eligible for parole at some point and when can we expect a decision? >> so it's laid out clearly for the judge. this is a required hearing. it's called a miller hearing. named for a u.s. supreme court case that said no state nationwide. it can sentence a minor to life in prison without the possibility of parole without taking into account specifics of the case. the things that were laid out per the decision are the age of the suspect or in this case, the defendant who has confessed their role in the crime, their home situation, how old they were. did they have means to get out of that home situation. the judge has some criteria that he has to weigh. again, we expect this to be the last day. this is day three. the judge said prior to all of this, that he would not issue a decision immediately and said at the end of this, we expect it to be this afternoon, he will set a date at which point we will learn his fate. >> thank you so much. up next, lizzo sued over claims of weight shaming and sexual harassment. what her former dancers are alleging. her former dancers ar alleging august 7th to the 13th. now is the time to partner with our experts. get started today with verizon business. it's your business. it's your verizon. i'm adding downy unstopables to my wash now. i'll be smelling fresh all day long. 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(vo) verizon small business days are coming. get 6 times longer-lasting freshness, from august 7th to the 13th. now is the time to partner with our experts. get started today with verizon business. it's your business. it's your verizon. we're back with some exclusive nbc news reporting. three of lizzo's former dancers have accused the singer of creating a hostile work environment and sexual harassment. in a lawsuit filed today in los angeles superior court and provided to nbc news. a warning. some of this is graphic. the lawsuit says lizzo subjected the group to an excruciating awe dishs after leveling false accusations they were drinking on the job. the lawsuit also describes an incident where she allegedly pressures one of them to touch a nude performer at an amsterdam club. the plaintiffs also claim on one occasion, she called attention to one dancer's weight gain. later berating then firing the dancer after she recorded a meeting because of a health condition. the suit about accuses the captain of lizzo's dance team of prot latizing those who had premarital sex while sharing lewd sexual fantasies and more. joining us now, nbc news entertainment contributor. chris, this is shocking but a lot of what makes it shocking is that it's in such contrast to lizzo's public image. fat shaming? she's known for embracing body positivity. what's your reaction? >> i am shocked. she's a grammy winning singer and a cultural figure. her notoriety comes from her body and her body positivity and how she's made and crafted this of story line. she won an emmy award last year for a show called watch out for the big girls, which is on amazon prime right now. it's about her recruiting these plus sized women to be her background dancers for a tour that already happened. it happened last year, but the whole show was heartfelt. tear jerking. her crying with all of these plus sized women of color who wanted to be dancers and were told throughout their careers they were too big. so this is really shocking. i am surprised. one of the dancers in fact, crystal william is her name, she was one of the first people lizzo shows on day one of this show before she went to the other episode. crystal got snatched up from being a background dancer. the math doesn't add up here. >> and we, nbc news that is, reached out to lizzo and her representatives before publishing this digital piece. no response. before we did the segment, our team also reached out. we haven't received any response, but when it comes to not just this fat shaming accusation but the other sexual harassment claims, the toxic work environment, accusations, do any of these accusations sound familiar? have there been any rumblings? >> not at all. watch the show, you do see lizzo, she did put her dancers through a series of different challenges and some of those may have been outside their comfort zone. but i think the allegations of going to the strip club and making them touch performers' bodies, that's shocking. i think it will also come down to her dance captain who's also named in this lawsuit to really have repeated actions that made the dancers uncomfortable. so i'm curious to hear more about her role in this. but for lizzo's part, again, it's out of character for her. >> i encourage all of our view toers read the detailed reporting on msnbcnews.com. chris, thank you so much for offering your insights and helping us try to make sense of this. up next, back to washington, d.c. for the latest from the courthouse as we await the possible trump indictments. stay right there. the possible trump indictments stay right there now is the time to partner with our experts. get started today with verizon business. it's your business. it's your verizon. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? 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(vo) verizon small business days are coming. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. from august 7th to the 13th. now is the time to partner with our experts. get started today with verizon business. it's your business. it's your verizon. bridgett is here. she has no clue that i'm here. she has no clue who's in the helmet. are you ready? -i'm ready! alright. xfinity rewards creates experiences big and small, and once-in-a-lifetime. back to our top story right now. a third indictment against donald trump is looking more likely by the hour. the grand jurors hearing evidence in the special counsel's election interference probe appear to have gone home for the day, but the foreperson appears to have stayed behind. we reported jack smith returned back to his office after 2:00 p.m., so what does that mean? what happens now? let's go back to nbc's ryan riley outside the u.s. district courthouse in d.c. also with us, the former member of robert mueller's special investigation into russian interference andrew weissmann. ryan, what can you tell us about what's happening right now? >> reporter: good question, we're trying to figure out what status is here. there's a lot of reporters camped out and we're checking those other doors, because as andrew well knows, we are in a situation where they could use a different courtroom to return that. it could have already been returned. we're just sort of waiting to see. so it's sort of, you know, luck of the draw being in the right place at the right time to try to see some activity that's going on. you know, there's little events that if you thought maybe -- like if this turns out to have been the indictment, oh, that was strange. that's what was happening then. but i think overall, this is going to be an indictment, and what we will likely see is a narrative that is going to be a very compelling one, based on what we have seen come out of the special counsel's office. they tell a good tale in these stories that is going to be dominating the public's view of what happened for the foreseeable future. it's something that you would hope a lot of people would read for themselves. because i think that the investigators and the grand jury are putting a lot of work in, and we're here for months after months working on this investigation. i'm sure it turned up some interesting things and will advance us further than what we saw coming out of the january 6th committee up on the hill, because they had a lot more power in many ways than that committee did. >> they were able to hear from those like mark meadows, the former white house chief of staff, who was alongside trump leading up to and on the day of the riots. andrew, we tried to read the tea leaves oh of what's happening today in the grand jury, and what has transpired since they sent that target letter to trump. what do you think is happening right now and what will you be watching for in the coming minutes, hours, days? >> sure. i think if it's not happening today, it will happen very, very soon. it's really clear what happened in the florida case that jack smith has a sense of pace of moving things along, and putting the pedal to the medal. it just seems very clear how much he's done so quickly. so i think that's a sign that -- as soon as he can bring the charges responsibly, i feel like he's going to do it. there are a lot of things to look out for. one is, are there going to be more defendants than just donald trump? that's sort of one. two is, what are the charges? i certainly expect an obstruction of justice charge, what they have seen in so many cases in the january 6th case that's been brought against hundreds of people. >> and the obstruction of justice in this case would be from what? >> absolutely. it's interesting. in the mar-a-lago case, we saw small obstruction of that particular investigation. this will be obstruction of congress. so this is an obstruction of the peaceful transfer of power. it does not get more serious than that. the reason that this is an obvious charge is you have brought it against so many foot soldiers, so it seems impossible that you wouldn't try to bring that charge if you have the evidence. >> we don't know what those charges are going done, but you set the table for potential charges and we have about 30 seconds. in terms of process, if there is an indictment today, when would we see trump have to face those charges in court, this week or how does it work in d.c.? >> sure. so the indictment gets wheeled out, spun out to a judge, and then we'll see who that judge is. there's an assigned judge. that judge will decide when the appearance will be. so what will happen today is the prosecutor and the defense will learn who the assigned judge is. and so -- and that's how we will know. >> i'm going to hand it off now to nicolle wallace. andrew, thank you. ryan, appreciate your up-to--minute reporting. i'm back tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern. "deadline: white house" starts right now. ♪ ♪ hey, everybody. i'm in again for nicolle wallace. donald trump said it himself, any day now, he's expecting it, we are expecting it. at some point, we'll see. but no official word as of yet on an indictment in special counsel jack smith's investigation into efforts to overturn the results oh of the 2020 election. we are aware that the grand jury heard testimony in this case they have left for the day, and a few minutes later, the special

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