have those state voting population to consolidate power and beta test their next extreme policy make over. we are dedicating the entirety of this episode of the show to that state. >> don't argue. this is florida. the rules are different here. >> yes, florida. disney world, miami vice, burt reynolds and countless legends about -- it also gave us -- stand-your-ground, choose life license plates, donald trump, and more january six defendants than any other state. today, it seems that every time a new culture -- in the mouths of fox hosts, every time a new legislation pops up in multiple states, it seems like it was just exported -- florida. the states new high priest of grievance politics is governor, ronald dion desantis, a harvard and yale educated populist. desantis wrote the tea party wave into congress, and he wrote the trump wave into the governor's mansion. now, he's trying to make right-wing waves of his own. they might be big enough to get him into office. >> disney will pay its debts, disney will, for the first time, live under the same laws as everybody else in florida. we believe in education, not indoctrination. the gender bread man. parents do not want this going on in their schools. we are not going to tell some kindergartner that they're in a pressure based on the race and what made that happened 100 or 200 years ago. this will represent the most significant protections for life that have been impacted his life in a generation. >> on tuesday, in tallahassee, desantis sort of admitted it was time to move on, when asked if he expected joe biden of the -- >> it's not for me to. do >> they've got to try to find a bogeyman, maybe it's at their block helicopter circling the department of health. if you believe that, i have a bridge in brooklyn elected sell you. >> remember all that? in just over three years as governor, desantis is tried to stay one step ahead of his party with theatrical demagoguery. just a spring, desantis in the state gop use the model panic of the critical race theory to push to the country's first law respecting workplace and school discussions about race, that might make white people uncomfortable. a law that led to the banning of more than a dozen grade school math textbooks in the state, until they were scrubbed of woke content. >> you do have things like social and emotional learning, and some of the other things that are more political in there. matt is about getting the right answer. >> expert mathematician right there, ron desantis. florida republicans also passed the don't say gay law, banning school discussions of gender and sexual orientation. when critics called the bill a government overreach, a top descent to spokeswoman called him groomers of children, or programmer. that's how she described them. after disney joined in the criticism, desantis led a gop war on the entertainment empire. he signed -- up his special tax status, and potentially putting florida taxpayers on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars. all of this builds on an authoritarian -- in signing the first law of the nation that would give immunity to some motorists who rundown protesters on the street. that was the florida gop reaction to the black lives matter protest. it became a model for legislation in other states, as ever. >> if a local government tries to defund the police, we at the state can stop that. we're able to put people in jail if they riot. we also have provisions to prevent mob intimidation tactics, and i think it's probably the most comprehensive piece of law in order legislation of seen. >> desantis was also ahead of the gop curving is vehement denials of covid science, touting his anti mask, and anti-vaccine mandate policies as a panacea for covid racked the nation. >> we've got a lot of people in your profession who waxed poetically for weeks and weeks about how florida was going to be just like new york. wait two weeks, florida's gonna be next. just like italy, wait two weeks. well, hell, we're eight weeks away from that and it hasn't happened. >> that was may, 2020. that age so well. as of yesterday, more than 74,000 floridians have died of covid under ron desantis. that's more than double his margin of victory when he was elected governor. of course, desantis in florida republicans have taken steps to make this purplish state permanently read. from keeping felons disenfranchised against a bill today, voters to passing new restrictions to voter access, creating election police force. and letting desantis draw new gerrymander congressional maps. this show isn't just about random santas, it's about what made the election for ron desantis possible and a blue wave election year, in a state where register democrats out numbered republicans by nearly a quarter million in 2018. it's about how republicans have more to florida state house into a permanent rubberstamp for the -- all of whom, in this century, have been republicans. even though the state voted twice for barack obama. you want to know how weak the democratic opposition is in this evenly divided state? the front runners to challenge desantis are florida's only current state -- and a former republican governor who switched to the dems. it's all happened by design. a quarter century of conservative design. the gop has long made florida playground for big donors, and a testing ground for conservative political experiment. can you maintain your party's control of the state with a narrow majority votes? can you govern with cultural legislation, and still stay in power? even before the most famous florida man descended from the trump tower escalator in 2015, floridians knew the answer to all these questions was yes. if you want to picture of what america might be headed, a bitterly divided country facing the rollback of basic lights while real problems go on addressed, you have to look at florida. the sunshine state matters because what happens in florida, doesn't stay in florida. think about this, the next republican presidential nominee, perhaps the next president of the united states is one of two men who currently reside in florida. joining me now, three floridians. brick wilson, former republican strategist, cofounder of the anti trump lincoln project. author of running against the devil, brought to us -- and democrats from themself. democratic -- of the strange days podcast. he's also msnbc political analyst. my family -- katie fang, host of the katy franco. she's also an msnbc legal contributor. welcome all of you. let me start with a very blunt question. guys, why is florida? why is it like? this >> because when it comes to autocratic tendencies, ron desantis is -- says, i can now do you. i have jokingly, yet seriously always had the florida's epicenter of all things that i can't really say without getting bleeped out. it is a very sad state of affairs that we are leading the charge and inability to be able to get rid of any type of freedoms that you would want to exercise. i am the mother of a first grader, she seven years old, there's a lot of stuff that i fear for her but it mainly stems from what happens in florida. it's a mind-boggling situation, mehdi. if you look at what was on your screen right now, you have big voices in florida that are making change, but they're hitting a wall. a big, red, gop wall. it's not for any lack of trying. ultimately, would you have to do is realize that florida is a microcosm of what is happening on a more national level. we have desantis appointed judges, we have desantis redistricting, we have desantis laws, we have desantis going after disney, which is one of the largest employers in the state of florida. but we try to do is grassroots it, -- from a legal perspective, we have massive challenges that go before desantis appointed judges, and we have problems. >> ric, let me bring you in. you know republicans. are florida republicans really out there, even by modern gop standards? if so, why? is it because people like yourself rile them up over the years? >> you bet. we built a machine in florida politics, and i go back to the dawn of time, 1988, the first george herbert walker bush campaign, and i've been around the block for a long time. i've done a lot of races in my home state, on the fifth generation floridian. what is happening in florida -- there are three big factors. one, the republicans built a plan, back in 1994, to destroy the democratic party of florida, to wreck their foreign teams, to cut off their fund raising, to drive them into small enclaves in the state. it was a successful plan, it was executed brilliantly. second, florida has become less florida. a lot of older, white retirees have moved here from the wisconsin, ohio, pennsylvania, they were getting out of the expensive north and moving to the inexpensive south. they are the folks who hated the high taxes, social safety net, and they were driven here in the -- two ethnic. -- the petri dish of conservatism. there's a critical mass of crazy people, who live here -- who move since trump -- and they're using the state's laboratory for extremism, and is found a fertile base here. >> so, on that note, do you feel like you're living in that petri dish that rick is mentioning? you've got rick scott, republican senator, rick scott, former governor of your state, who's not the only republican senator putting a plan on the table -- mitch mcconnell said he won't offer republican agenda. even at the national level, you have the guy from florida, rick scott, offering a plot for the party. voter i.d., denying the existence of trans children, pledge allegiance in schools, raising taxes on porous americans. that's all out there. -- that's where you are right now. >> mehdi, there's a reason the new gop mean is make america florida. as you've heard, this is a by design plan. as a florida democrat, it pains me to admit this. the facts of the matter are, mehdi, the republicans wanted it more. they made a calculation that florida was a state that could not, under any circumstances, be lost and be part of the democratic coalition of states going forward. as rick says, they made that plan in 94. they, nonetheless, still lost florida 96, when bill clinton won reelection. they made everything in their power to win it back in 2000, and that is futility in. were many, including myself, think it was taken away. nonetheless, the democrats continue to get complacent and treat florida as an election year prize, where republicans thought about florida as a generational prize. they treated it as a permanent campaign 24/7, three 65. they think about it in terms of five election cycles ahead. the democrats treat -- if that. the results are what they are. but >> we'll put. stay right there, we have more to talk about. we're gonna take a very short break. when we come back, we're gonna carry on why florida so scary. big story of the week, abortion rights. florida may not have led the lights on but -- republicans have made sure that that state has not been left out. more on all of that in a moment. don't go away. away. with my trusty team ♪ ♪ there's heather on the hedges ♪ ♪ and kenny on the koi ♪ ♪ and your truck's been demolished by the peterson boy ♪ ♪ yes -- ♪ wait, what was that? 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ask your health care provider today about once-weekly ozempic®. ♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! ♪ you may pay as little as $25 for a 3-month prescription. bonnie boon i'm calling you out. everybody be cool, alright? with ringcentral we can pull bonnie up on phone, message, or video, all in the same app. oh... hey bonnie, i didn't see you there. ♪ ringcentral ♪ thanks, paul. oh.my fellownnie, i xfinity customers!re. the biggest week in entertainment is here! watchathon week presented by xfinity rewards! with free access to stranger things from netflix, the boys from prime video, starz, hbo max, and peacock. and we'll make this a national holiday. nay. holi-week. just say watchathon into your voice remote to watch now. welcome back to the special episode, dedicated the question, how did florida go to a solid swing state to an increasingly solid red state and become the testing ground for a policies, nationwide? back with me, our florida-based panel. rick wilson, we fernand armando, and msnbc host, katie fang. thank you all for sticking around. katie, let's talk about the big top of the news this week. the leaked opinion indicating the supreme court will overturn roe v. wade, and hand abortion rights over to the state. governor desantis of florida recently signed a law banning abortion after 15 weeks. what does this mean for women in florida, and could the state now move towards even stricter restrictions like the texas six-week ban? >> that florida law that's going to take effect july 1st marriage itself on the mississippi law that is currently going to be decided -- by justice sullied oh -- nobody was surprised by that because desantis was rushing that one through. in order to get that on the books before any ruling came out, and the dobbs decision, which should be coming out end of june, why? the draft holding that we've seen from that case that is true, every -- in terms of whether or not is going to allow abortions are not. in florida, it's no big shocker that you cannot be able to do so, based upon the law that will be on the books on july. first i will not be surprised to see more strict laws being passed. why? desantis is positioning himself to be the smarter, leaner, faster, more aggressive version of donald trump. what donald trump do successfully? he promised his base. even evangelical christians, who had antithetical value system toward all trump stood for. he guaranteed that through people like mitch mcconnell, he would put a stacked conservative scotus in place, and that's what he did. desantis says a run for his money, and in order to galvanize his base, he's gonna make sure that he does even more restrictive things, like more obstructive abortion laws. >> when we talk more restrictions, justice alito's opinion condescendingly tells women, if they don't like the laws, go vote. red states, including florida, are working hard to limit access to voting. florida's law reducing drop boxes -- which experts say disproportionately hurt people of color. now you have this election fraud police unit from desantis, and a gerrymandered map drawn by the governor himself. how are floridians supposed to undo some of these policies? >> it becomes a hell of a challenge, mehdi. i'll give you some florida politics secret. the most important political office in the state of florida is not the governor, it's the secretary of state. the secretary of state is the office that, not only has responsibility and oversees the elections division, but it also understand from a demographic perspective, who exactly is coming in, who exactly is coming out, so that they can pinpoint when needs to be done and what voter rolls, if you will, need to be reevaluated to make it much harder to vote. again, this goes back to a very sinister and well thought out plan, that is been executed on with discipline, precision by the republican party. for whatever reason, a reason i don't understand, because florida can be one, it was one as recently as 2008, 2012. we were involved in those efforts. i thought we found a way to pick the lock, especially to the hispanic vote, the democrats have taken their foot off the accelerator, and not double down on issues like voting rights and messaging, and redefining the republicans as extremists. therefore, you've only had one democratic with a statewide contest in ten years. >> that one democrat will be joining me after the break in the next segment. rick, not only is desantis restricting abortion in voting rights, he's leading into the culture wars. the war with disney, the warrants transgender kids. not only that, he presided over a mass death in florida, during the pandemic. constantly blasting mask and vaccine mandates. refusing to say if he'd been boosted. yet, he's still leading all those potential democratic challengers in the polls. >> there are a lot of things about the florida voting demographic that defy gravity. i will give you one quick insight. i've talked about this at enormous length. there are a lot of hispanic voters in broward, dade, and palm beach county who hear the word socialism, and then maybe liberal on every other thing, they hear socialism, and the associated with castro, not with health care and education. that scares a mob very quickly. i will say this, the thing about desantis is clear, he's not just still want to be authoritarian, he's found out that being an authoritarian is good for him financially. it puts him on fox news every night. not -- >> on that note, to jump, in your close to ten of trump. do you believe rhonda scientists is trump ear than trump, more authoritarian than the donald? >> i think he's what i call -- he brings to it the more educated approach, the more frightening approach, to be honest with you then trump. trump's got all these impulse control problems, these cognitive deficits. desantis is a much smarter iteration of that. like i said, i jokingly say, if you want to see a vision of the future, to paraphrase or well, it's $1 store flip-flop stamping on a human face forever. this is a guy who will exercise power with enormous vinegar he, will exercise power in -- and he will do whatever he wants and not be held to account. >> lovely. in 2016, it was trump or cruz, in 2024, it's trump or desantis. what's choices your party will fall upon. >> former party. >> katie, let me say this. this past winter, republican slammed new york congresswoman after she visited florida and was seen mask-less outdoors, which is fine by the way. i asked her about that, have a listen to what she said. >> republicans do not own states, just because they happen to have won a gubernatorial election. not only that, i can tell you that the people of florida certainly seem very revved up and ready to go to organize for the 2022 midterm elections. i'd be more than happy to return to the sort of florida to help them organize. >> republicans have really mattered the -- as a strong we would state, as if there's no democrats living there, as if it's 100 percent red state, ignoring the fact that it's a diverse state. as she put it, republicans don't own states. >> oh, but i respectfully disagree. with a gun, rounded up people like rick and me in fernand, and put us in one place and lock the doors. the reality is, desantis controls florida. we have a very fractured democratic party, who are not cohesive. the ability to strategize and galvanize a vote, that aoc talks about, has been increasingly more difficult. -- the idea that we have a spanish language speaking sector of our community here and, when they hear certain catchphrases, they become fearful about what would happen if didn't have somebody like ron desantis in office. was problematic, it's not just the governor. it's our legislature. it's predominantly gop, and what they are doing, they're becoming many desantis's. -- which really should be a very apolitical office, right? it should be about protecting clarity ends. >> i wish i had time to do a whole show on doctor ladapo, who is clearly away every day that they talk medicine in medical school. we'll have to leave it there. rick wilson, fernand amandi, katie fang. a fascinating in slightly depressing discussion. thank you all. florida has become a testing ground for gop strategy, it's also plain to see that is working, as your panel just mentioned. governor desantis is more popular there than ever. how can democrats win would is increasingly becoming a red state? i'll ask one of the democratic challengers, or want to be challengers, nikki freed. stay with us. stay with us staying up half the night searching for savings on your prescriptions? just ask your cvs pharmacist. we search for savings for you. from coupons to lower costs options. plus, earn up to $50 extra bucks rewards each year just for filling at cvs pharmacy. people with plaque psoriasis, are rethinking the choices they make. like the shot they take. the memories they create. or the spin they initiate. otezla. it's a choice you can make. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, you can achieve clearer skin. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. otezla can cause serious allergic reactions. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you. ♪ life can be a lot to handle. ♪ this magic moment ♪ but heinz knows there's plenty of magic in all that chaos. ♪ so different and so new ♪ ♪ was like any other... ♪ do your eyes bother you? because after all these emails my eyes feel like a combo of stressed, dry and sandpaper. luckily, there's biotrue hydration boost eye drops for instant moisture. biotrue uses naturally inspired ingredients. and no preservatives. try biotrue here's to real flavors... real meals. real good. all of knorr's high quality pasta and rice sides are now made with no artificial flavors or preservatives. knorr. taste for good. remember the big florida election is in 2018? they coincided with the blue wave midterm elections, nationwide, that gave democrats back the house. republican, norm desantis, won a narrow victory against his opponent for governor. it was so close, in fact, it led to one of florida's contentious machine recounts. galen ultimately conceded. -- desantis is practically on clues. control he's pollex inefficiently higher than his democratic opponent. he's fundraising more, and is expected to slide into another election victory. he's likely on course -- -- with disney, one of florida's largest employers, revoking it special tax status. he even went after a faculty of state universities, making it harder for them to retain tenure. it's all about trying to make these institutions more aligned with of the states priorities are. it's no questions about what those priorities are. in just four years, desantis is managed to turn what was once america's biggest, most crucial swing state, into what's david graham of the atlantic now calls the vanguard of maga policymaking. what's happened in florida? when it comes to elections in the sunshine state, do democrats even still have a chance? joining me now to discuss this, someone who thinks so, nikki freed. the only statewide elected democrat in florida. currently serving as the states agriculture commissioner. she's also a democratic candidate for governor. the primaries on our august 23rd. thank you for coming on the show. you, and to other democrats, congressman -- but are competing to run against ron desantis in november. desantis is leading all of you in the polls by a significant margin. has florida become a red state? >> absolutely not. you're just talking about the recount of 2018. i also had my own recount in 2018. i was part of that. i was able to flip a seat, that was typically controlled by republicans. in fact, my predecessor won the seat by almost 1 million votes. we've looked at by 20 points. that was just three and a half years ago. we know that the state is by far not read. unfortunately, the national narrative is that it is red. those that of us are living here, that are talking to voters on the ground, they're frustrated, they're angry and after this, week they know what is on the line. they want to get rid of random scientists. >> whether or not desantis beats the democratic candidate in november, the poll suggests he will, things might change, that candidate might not be you. charlie chris, according to other polls, is currently leading in the -- and he himself is your former republican governor of your state. that's who you're losing to right now in the democratic primaries according to the poll. >> first of all, i think that we all have seen that polls don't tend to be correct. especially with what's going on in the state, and across the country. democrats want to win. they want somebody who's a true democratic. since i was 17, a fierce fighter -- i've been the only one that's been able to win my state since barack obama took my state back when he was president. we know, on the ground, everybody that we're talking to, they want something new. they want someone who's a proven track record, and somebody who's been standing up for a woman's right to choose her entire life. charlie's been back and forth on this issue. this is not the time to put somebody like him anywhere close to that governor's mansion. >> speaking of your candidacy, you recently filed a lawsuit against biden ministration over a federal law the barr's medical -- it's kind of rare to see democrats suing other democrats, and a sitting president. you also post a selfie going mask-less on planes after the tsa mandate was lifted. that was before the biden doj appeal. it is the way democrats have to campaign in conservative florida now, leaning into gun rights, and away from masks? but >> first and foremost, i came into this position as a cannabis advocate. we've seen, for decades, more black and brown men are our country are still going to jail in jail for marijuana possession. we haven't seen a needle move in washington, d.c.. this is an opportunity under my official role. -- to kind of push the envelope and say, we need to make these changes. the issue is the fact that marijuana users are precluded from purchasing a firearm. this is something that needs to be fixed, and it needs to be changed. it creates more safety, here in the state of florida, and across the country, because it's forcing people to get a background check. our state is purple. in order for democrats to win here, we need to be able to when i have a conversation and be able to talk about issues that transcend partisan politics. that's what i want in 2018. we have to understand, where the people are, here in our state. that's where they are. >> one issue that doesn't translate has been in the news all week, if elected, you would be florida's first woman governor. as a woman candidate, how much you think this week's draft of the supreme court -- how mrsa is that affect the primaries, and maybe's november's election? it's choice going to be the issue that galvanizes this election? let specially when your democratic opponent used to be a republican governor with a mixed record on abortion rights. >> yes. this was a monumental shift and why people are talking about. we all know that, based on opinion, it opens the door for all of our rights, which are not specifically spelled out in the constitution. this one, this is a big one. we know, right now, people need to fighter. someone who's gonna be a champion. since we can't rely on federal security, and federal protections, we have to rely on our state government. that means, it's even more important that we elect pro choice, freedom of choice democrats into those governors offices across states. this is going to be a game-changer for not just florida, but elections across our country. >> how worried are you that desantis signed into law a new bill that's gonna take -- howard or you that he goes for a texas style six-week limit? >> i think that's a real possibility. he had a 15-week ban that did not have an exception for rape, incest, victims of sex trafficking. unfortunately, he knows where his bases, or he believes he does, and i won't put it past him -- to move forward to an almost all out ban in the state of florida. we are seeing polling only 23% of floridians want that. which means, he's no longer, and has no longer been, talking for the majority of our state. which is why you're going to see people in droves going to register the votes, make sure they're going to the ballot boxes. you're gonna see a lot of crossover, and specially republican women who are seeing that this is gone way too far. >> we'll have to see what happens. it's gonna be very interesting. nikki for you, thank you so much for your time. appreciate it. still ahead, the other power center of florida, mar-a-lago. i'll explain when we return. who n. wh [♪♪] if you have diabetes, it's important to have confidence in the nutritional drink you choose. try boost glucose control®. it's clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels and contains high quality protein to help manage hunger and support muscle health. try boost® today. ♪ my name is monique, i'm 41, and i'm a federal contract investigator. as a single parent, i would run from football games to work and trying to balance it all. so, what do you see when you look at yourself? 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200 years later. well, it calls to mind another exile. this one of donald trump. self imposed. since donald and millennia fled to south florida state, he bought in the 1980s, mar-a-lago feels a bit like alba, with trump growing's influence and loudly putting his return. trump's even converted a bridal suite in what the new york times calls, a shadow gop headquarters. republican swooping into pledged their allegiance to trump and his big lie. house republican leader, kevin, mccarthy was there in january, 2020, after 16, all smiles, just days after you told colleagues that he was gonna urge trump to resign. there is j.d. vance, when he was still eyeing the senate run in ohio. he came to kissed proverbial ring and make amends. there's ted cruz, huddling with georgia republican senate under a gold frame portrait of someone who looks nothing like donald trump. that place, mar-a-lago, it's such a bizarre place. just think about the former president living in what's pretty much a wedding venue, popping up at the buffet table. the place would be hilarious if it wasn't so dangerous. -- -- as you traverse the club, he repeatedly asked guests, and members about fraud in certain states, and often made claims about explosive findings. would a shin dig, am i right? it's easy to laugh at these dispatches from mar-a-lago, easy. as i keep reminding you on the show, what would we say if we're witnessing this in another country? we were all relieved when trump actually left the white house in january 2020, flying to a life of obscurity. instead, like napoleon elba, trump is still vibrating his noise, trying his best to make sure we all hear him, while expanding his control of the republican party. mar-a-lago, it turns, out is not just another florida retirement home for another florida retiree, but home to -- anti-democratic royal coup. still to come, the country has been rocked by the staggering number of mass shootings over the past decade, many of them in florida. like the rest of the country, nothing comes of these calls for stronger gun laws. not in florida, not these days. up next, my conversation with david hub, parkland this by -- an activist. an activist. on the new supreme meats and mozza meat. just like my nonna makes when she cooks! i don't cook. wait, what? it's a good thing he's so handsome. subway keeps refreshing and refre- hey businesses! you all deserve something epic! so we're giving every business, our best deals on every iphone - including the iphone 13 pro with 5g. that's the one with the amazing camera? yep! every business deserves it... like one's that re-opened! hi, we have an appointment. and every new business that just opened! like aromatherapy rugs! i'll take one in blue please! it's not complicated. at&t is giving new and existing business customers our best deals on every iphone. ♪ ♪ with godaddy you can start a stunning online store for free. easily connect it to social platforms and marketplaces. and manage all your sales from one place. because if you've got it, we've got you. start for free at godaddy.com/startfree marjory stoneman -- florida was one of the sites of the deadly shootings in united states history. the states connection to gun violence doesn't end there. in 2012, 17 year old trayvon martin was shot and killed in stanford, florida. martin was unarmed, at the time -- that a law that says, it's not necessary to retreat before using deadly force against what you believed to be a threat. the sunshine state was the first to and accept a law, way back in 2005. since trayvon martin's death, more than 70 states have more than of those -- on the books. florida is also home to the nra's, mary hammer, a woman the new yorker called, the most influential gun lobbyist in the united states. the magazine says her policies have elevated florida's gun owners to a uniquely -- and made the public carrying a firearms effect of daily life in the state. according to the nra, florida is the first date have over two and a half million permits. now it seems governor, ron desantis, is trying to make those permits a non-issue. he's vowing to sign a new constitutional carry law, which would make it illegal for any floridian, with or without a license, to carry a firearm. there's not that anything that constitutional about it, to be honest. it doesn't look like a gun shine state is going to lose that nickname anytime soon. what can we do to prevent another trayvon martin, or another school shooting? earlier, i spoke with parkland survivor we, david hogg, about all of this. david, thanks for joining me on the show. the horrific school shooting that you survived, was of course in florida. there were gun control measures passed in tallahassee for a short window of time, and then the gun lobby pushed back. today, you have gop governor, ron desantis, backing a new state law that would allow floridians to carry concealed guns, without any need for permits. do you think there's any particular about florida when it comes to republicans, guns and the gun lobby? >> i don't know about florida, i think it's more about the current state of affairs in our country. unfortunately, the fact that our government is largely -- -- who represents a tiny minority of americans, and can spares into the 90% of us who support background checks, and that same lobbies the one that -- in this case, they own guns and benefit from the sale of them. >> yes, indeed. of course, a lot of the flash points in debates over gun violence and so defenceman stand-your-ground has come out of florida. but -- who's been called, the nation's most influential gun lobbyist, she's based in florida. she's behind most of florida's program policies. how much you think the nra sees a state like florida, both as a laboratory for crazy program measures, and as a model for the rest of the country? >> i think the nra sees florida as a laboratory for horrifying deregulation of guns in our country. previously, it was a swing state, now -- used to be said, as florida goes, so goes the rest of the country. i want to make one thing really clear, people like mary and hammer -- this is not constitutional carrie, this is careless carry. -- if it became law is make it so that the current system that we have in place, in florida, under the concealed carry permit system, you need training right now to prove that you can safely handle a gun, or unit to have prior authorization to do so. responsible gun owners like my father, and many of my family owners, support training. this -- they understand that training benefits everyone. it helps prevent children from getting access to these weapons, and make sure that criminals aren't getting access. that the people using these weapons, know how to use them. with power comes responsibility. this is gonna responsibility. >> given what's happening in the state level, when it comes to gun policies, gun laws, would you make of president joe biden's record so far on gun reform and gun control, at the federal level? >> i think he's made some good actions, in regards to helping get more action for community violence prevention programs -- and more recently, producing executive action on ghost guns. obviously, the president's hands are somewhat tied by the filibuster, but the reality is, i think there's more than the president can do. for example, creating a comprehensive plan to implement -- if congress changes overnight, we can have a proposal on the books i can say, you know, here's the laws that we know our constitutional, for example like the one in massachusetts -- that have saved lives, and we can implemented the federal level, and save lives right now. with that, i think florida and many of these other states, from the don't say gay bills, to these careless carolinas, to all of these other laws that are being implemented, shows us the importance of state legislatures. real change in this country, as we've seen over the past couple of decades, does not come from congress, it comes from state legislatures. people need to understand the importance, real power in our country, where it is accessible, lies with the states. >> on that note, a lot of people look back on parkland, they look back on sandy hook and say, when even the master of curve kids in school doesn't force -- when it comes to a gun laws, then nothing will. how do you respond, as an activist, as a survivor, to that kind of pessimism, defeatism, some might say? >> i think it's important to understand that we are working against a massive force here. the courage that we bring, because of the people we've lost, the memories that we carry, continues to propel us. with that, we have made progress. we've seen changes to many gun laws to the country, in the wake of parkland, over 50 gunshots have been implemented, at a state level, since 2018, when the parkland shooting happened. while that might not be progress, the reality of social moves tells us that progress is anything but a straight line, a lot of the time. the important thing to remember, as it's been said before, the journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step, we may have taken a couple steps, but we're nowhere near them thousand mile mark. luckily, my generation has one of the most -- besides money, which is time. we're gonna leave the people were in congress. the question is, are we gonna repeat the same mistakes. i'm working to make sure that's not the case. >> david hogg, on that note, we will have to leave it there. thank you so much for appearing on the show today. >> thank you. >> that does it for me. thank you for joining us. also you right back here soon for more in-depth interviews with key news makers. you can always catch more from the mehdi hasan show, monday through thursday, streaming on the msnbc hub on peacock. peacock panera chefs have crafted a masterpiece... succulent, seared chicken... a secret aioli... clean ingredients... in a buttery brioche roll. made fresh, to leave you... speechless. panera's new chef's chicken sandwiches. $1 delivery fee on our app. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ introducing the all-new infiniti qx60. take on your wild world in style. ♪ (johnny cash) ♪ i've traveled every road in this here land! ♪ take on your wild world ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ crossed the desert's bare, man. ♪ ♪ i've breathed the mountain air, man. ♪ ♪ of travel i've had my share, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere. ♪ ♪ i've been to: pittsburgh, parkersburg, ♪ ♪ gravelbourg, colorado, ♪ ♪ ellensburg, cedar city, dodge city, what a pity. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere. ♪ the unknown is not empty. it's a storm that crashes, and consumes, replacing thought with worry. but one thing can calm uncertainty. an answer. uncovered through exploration, teamwork, and innovation. an answer that leads to even more answers. mayo clinic. you know where to go. dove knows we damage our hair a lot my hair i curl it. i have to use a lot of heat new dove hair therapy shampoo & conditioner with ceramide & peptide. it nourishes at a cellular level to rescue damaged hair. discover 10 x stronger hair with new dove hair therapy rescue and protect. (dad allen) you know when you see a great deal on a phone, and then realize it's not for you? not at verizon.h new dove (mom allen) yep, they just gave us all a brand new iphone 13. (vo) now everyone can get a new iphone 13 on us on america's most reliable 5g network. for every customer. current, new, everyone. to show the love. this is the katy thing show, live for miami, florida. we have lots of news to covering questions to answer. so let's get started. first lady jill biden during the silky ukraine border today, on the eve of russia's victory day, a major holiday in russia. but can it be a victory day without a victory insight? will putin's failures in ukraine pivot the war in the new, even more violent, direction? plus, a nationwide abortion ban is now a possibility, according to those powerful republican in the senate. senate