before the supreme court and won included the future supreme court justice, thurgood marshall, he and his co-counsel stood outside the court outside the ruling to celebrate the victory and expressed the hope and expectation that southern segregationist states would comply. >> it is my opinion that it will be law-abiding and will comply with the decision of the court and accept it. as members of the democratic society. >> i don't think there is any question, that this is law-abiding as anybody else and other decisions, which they said they looked like. >> a bit of ironic forshadowing here because there were of course several critics of the ruling mostly from southern segregationist states. one of the most vociferous critics of the decision, even years later was this man, jerry falwell, one of the most prominent leaders of the ejan gel cal movement in america. this is a little bit of a sermon he gave to his congregation in lynchburg, virginia, years after that ruling was rendered. quote, if chief justice warren and his associates had known god's word and had desired to do the lord's will, i am quite confident that the 1954 decision would never have been made. the facilities should be separate. when god has drawn a line of distinction, we should not attempt to cross that line. the true negro does not want integration. he realizes his potential is far better among his own race. end quote. falwell went on to assert that integration quote will destroy our race eventually. and in the aftermath of brown v board, segregation became a motivating factor, including for the evangelical movement. more than 3,000 private schools and academies popped up in the years after the ruling, white students instructed separately and apart from black students, despite the court decision. some of those institutions included falwell's lynchburg christian academy which was founded in 1967. years after the brown v board decision, when the government tried to deny tax exempt stat us to segregated private schools, folks like jerry falwell were enraged. other schools like the bob jones university went to court over the matter arguing that racial segregation was a religious matter. they lost. the decision was nearly unanimous. the industry shows that the pioneers, for the pioneers of the evangelical movement, for people like jerry falwell, segregation was a motivating factor long before abortion was. in fact in 1973 when the supreme court decided roe v. wade, evangelicals weren't exactly motivated by roe. the former president of america's largest prot stat denomination the southern baptist convention endorsed the ruling roe v. wade and said i always felt it was only after a child was born and had a life separate from its mother that it became an individual person. and it has always therefore seemed to me that what is best for the mother and the future should be allowed. end quote. in fact, in 1971, before the decision in roe v. wade, that same protestant group resolved to seek pro-abortion legislation, allowing the procedure in certain case, and then reaffirm that resolution, in the year after roe, in 1974. pushing for legislation that would allow people to choose abortion in specific instances. it was not until years after the roe ruling that the evangelical movement decided that coalescing around abortion was the way to unify religious groups and gain political power. the anger of evangelicals was activated by segregation but continued segregation could prove to be a less than palatable way to motivate evangelical voters on a broad scale, not enough to win elections with, and that's where the issue of abortion came. in senate races in minnesota and iowa in 1978 showed that an anti-abortion pro-life movement could unite the religious right and give them real political power. in minnesota, pro life republicans won two senate seats. in iowa, the democratic incumbent senator dick clark was expected to win by a landslide. he did not. primarily due to the work of mostly catholic pro-life activists. clark had supported federal funding for abortions for low income women and opposed an amendment that would restrict abortions, so at the abortion activist rallied support. >> richard clark, six years in the u.s. senate, and then out on one issue. the one political insider said that mattered. >> i had voted for public funding of abortion. with the constitutional amendment, the support draft said that we would. so we support that case. one of the first in the united states. >> the anti-abortion movement has political clout. that surprised a lot of journalists and political analysts who believe those people made a lot of noise but not much difference. >> after those 1978 races, those people resolved to make up a whole lot more noise, and in a very organized way. in a letter to fellow conservatives, or to a fellow conservative, another conservative activist and the leader of the religious right, paul wyrick, characterized those anti-abortion victories as quote true cause for celebration. and predicted that opposition to abortion would pull together many our fringe christian friends end quote. that was the plan to. bottle up all of that ire that evangelicals felt about segregation and concentrate it on abortion. making sweeping moral arguments against health care that they claim was founded in religion. that was the plan to build political power. and republican politicians campaigned accordingly. in 1980, the republican candidate for president, ronald reagan, campaigned on a constitutional amendment prohibiting abortion. one of the issues that helped send him to the white house. he gape gained the support of those opposed to abortion and ousting jimmy carter and won the presidency. the reagan administration focused increasingly on abortion and the rise of the federalist society and the trend toward strict textualists like this man robert bork, a failed supreme court nominee, who criticized the justice who wrote the brown v board decision. that trend continued through the trump administration, in 2015, trump courted and forged a coalition with the religious right, with figures like jerry falwell jr., to secure their backing, and their funding, he notoriously released a list of conservative justices whom he would nominate, if elected. his then running mate pledged during the campaign, that the judicial nominees would bring an end to roe once and for all. >> we appoint strict constructionists of the supreme court of the united states as donald trump i believe you will see roe v. wade consigned to the ash heap of history where it belongs. >> and they did. trump appointed three conservative judges and this week, with the leaked draft opinion con telling roe to the court, ash heap, we can see how this is likely to shake out. with roe gone, the restriction on health care in roughly half the country not to mention that the draft opinion is written in a way that could dismantle other rights, things like the right to same-sex marriage, the right to contraception, inter racial marriage, privacy, all of these things, are now on the table. the religious right chartered this course decades ago, in their anger over segregation, to build power on the back of abortion and dismantle the rights they don't care for, and so far, it seems to be working. joining us now is elise hough, the president of the pro-choice america for eight years and author "the lie that binds" a book that offers a comprehensive history of the right wing anti-abortion movement in america and the ties to white supremacy. thanks for joining us tonight. you have made these connections very clearly in your book and not one that people think very clearly, that the opposition, the conservative opposition to abortion is not necessarily about religion or conservative value, it's about power. >> absolutely. and more than that, ali, it is about power of the minority over a rising majority. you have to remember, at the time, all of these machinations were going on, what was happening, what was the backdrop in american culture, you had the blize of women's liberation, and the black power movement, you had widely available contraception, so sexual -- sexual liberation, and it was the drift that the white patriarchy had enjoyed since the beginning of the united states as we know it, and all of that was being threatened in the moment that there was a sort of craven decision to weaponize abortion as the tip of the spear, to roll back decades of social progress, and i think the lesson that we have to learn from that is although they would want us to believe that this decision, it is an end game, and it would stop abortion, abortion is and always been a trojan horse for a desperate claim to power by the white patriarchy, and in a country that is rapidly and has been rapidly changing for decades. >> that's a remarkable thing for a lot of people to think about, because one doesn't think about the elimination of roe v. wade as a trojan horse. they think of that as the end game. they think of that as the capture of the whole thing. tell me what you mean by trojan horse. what do you believe in this quest for power is in danger. >> an excellent question. and allow me to say because it is very important that if it was only abortion, that should be enough, right? >> yes. >> abortion is a fundamental freedom that has to be embraced by our nation as a core value, in order to actually aspire to that democracy, justice and human empowerment. period. right? however, that is not all that they're after. whether you look at the history, which you could say, we do a tremendous job, by the way, we worked very, very and assiduously researched in the book, and if you look at the actual decision and the way it comes down, it is written in such a way that nothing is sackrosanct. because of this that was achieved, as the way that it was not written in the constitution the way white men were, all of those rights are in jep i.d. and let's be clear, all of the things, one. things that was always said, if you don't have the power of the majority with you and the legal right to abortion has always been a popular opinion with the majority. when you don't have the power of the majority, what do you do? you result to disinformation, which abortion disinformation pre-dated covid disinformation by a lot. we traveled a lot of the same veck tors. and what is first impression, always goes hand in hand, with robbing women of reproductive freedom and we may be at the end game of court capture, with radical and dramatic changes but we are not at the end game of what this court will dismantle in terms of rights of others that they did not recognize in the originalist version of the constitution. >> let's talk about what happens now, amend how people are concerned about this, and how people concerned about this motivate decision makers of every level, when you say abortion should be enough, and if it were the end game, that should be enough, that's true, but when you add that extra part about these other things that are not enumerated in the constitution, which some lawyers say is weak tea, that argument is strained, because there's lots of rights would he enjoy that are not enumerated in the constitution. but when you add all of those things that can be taken away, should that motivate more people who otherwise were not motivated by roe v. wade, should that motivate people who say rights in general are starting to be dismantled across this country, and this becomes existential to our democracy? >> do i wish everybody was motivated by the right to abortion because women and reproductive, absolutely, i do, however if that is not your motivation, shoe not think, there is the addage, they did not come for me and i did not fight and they are all coming for us unless you look like them and now they believe they have the power of the court and now what they don't have is the honor of the people, they are honored willingness that we are weak and going home and the supreme court myself last night, i was invigorated by the fact that people are not going home, they are coming out and continue to come out and whether it is for abortion, or legislative reform or for court reform or whether it is at the polls in november. people are coming out. >> thank you for your work. we appreciate it. thank you for taking time to be with us tonight and help us understand this. elyse hoag. former president of the nara pro choice america. new developments in the january 6th investigation. big developments. up next, a democrat did something in michigan last night that no other democrat has done in decades. they beat a republican in' very red district. that democrat joins us live next. very red district that democrat joins us live next (woman) oh. oh! hi there. you're jonathan, right? the 995 plan! yes, from colonial penn. your 995 plan fits my budget just right. excuse me? aren't you jonathan from tv, that 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(soft music) ♪ take a look at this. this is ohio's 9th congressional direct. by no means a deep red district. currently represented by a democrat and thanks to redistricting it is now considered a swing district. several republican contenders vying to be the candidate in that swing congressional district. there's a state senator, a member of the ohio state house, and then there was this guy. >> now you may remember me as the guy who penned his lawn with the world's largest trump campaign logo which triggered the left. i will do whatever it takes to return this country back to its former glory. if i got to kick down doors, that's just what patriots do. >> the kicking down doors not actually got my attention, it was the big gun. that guy's name is jr, attended the stop the steal rally on january 6th and claims to have raised money to bring other trump supporters that day and did really make the world's largest trump campaign lawn sign, here he is posting it, while wearing one of several q-anon shirts he claims to have once owned, a he has rap tune, and i have limits also, so you will not hear them. but he won last night's primary to be the republican candidate in that important swing district. he's not the only fringe candidate to have won last night. ohio republicans also elected the elections max miller, to be their candidate in ohio's seventh congressional district. the daily beast described max miller as a former white house aide with a thin resume and rap sheet that includes multiple charges in his home state of ohio, for assault, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest. end quote. incidentally, unlike majewski, miller's rap sheet does not have lyrics. and an incumbent republican who voted to certify joe biden's election victory, and that incumbent republican then quit the race, rather than face a trump backed challenger but then restricting pushed max miller into a different district, with a different republican incumbent, who then also had to retire instead of facing a trump back challenger. so thanks to max miller, ohio republicans are now down to two incumbents, but at least they got the rapping yard sign guy. and in state after state, we are seeing trump-backed republicans win their party's nomination, running on a platform of conspiracy theories about how the 2020 election was stolen. but while election spear sy candidates are winning republican primary, where they run against each other they're having less luck when facing off against democrats even in an election cycle that is supposed to favor republicans. last night, michigan held a special election for a vacant house seat. trump had won the district by double digits in 2020. it had been represented by republicans for more than three decades. so the conventional wisdom was that this was going to be an easy republican victory. the republican in that race was a conservative q-anon conspiracy theorist, he claimed that ukraine was quote culpable for its invasion by russia and ran on a trax of trying to decertify the 2020 election at one point he decided to use a very unfortunate metaphor for that fight. >> you know, having three daughters and i tell my daughters, well rape is inevitable you should lie back and enjoy it. >> see that shocked look of the woman next to him? she is a republican. and would make that man's conspiracy theories a focus and it worked. the democrat carol glanville won the special election for the state house seat deep in the heart of trump country and after the victory told the "washington post," democrats need to tell their story, the big take-away from all of this is that people are tired of radicalism and conspiracy theories. joining us now is carol glanville, the democratic michigan tate representative elect who won that special election, ms. glanville, thanks for joining us. congratulations on your victory. i want to ask you, i want to start by asking you, do you think your race was a special case, because of the oneous things that your opponent said and weird stances or is it a model that can be replicated by other democrats and call extremist candidates out on the believes that they have. >> as a result of those things. what i found going door to door and running a campaign here in west michigan is that people, people really were able to come around, voting for values, and shared, those shared value, and working on problems in our community. they are interested in the things that affect them on a day-to-day basis. like great public schools. strong public schools. clean water. good jobs for working families. health care. they're not interested in the fear mongering and the hatred and the vitriol and the radicalism. they're tired of it. and i think that was demonstrated in my election last night and for me to win that seat, clearly there there had to be bipartisan support for my candidacy. >> clearly. >> that message resonates with folks. >> the numbers indicate that. there was no way to win that just with democratic votes. so what do you say to people who say that democrats in this election cycle need to focus solely on pocketbook issue, the economy, and inflation, and these kind of things, and not get distracted by election conspiracies and extremist antics. >> i would say we just need to stand up for what we know is the right thing, right? it is common sense and decency and those solid fundamental values that at the end of the day, that's what everybody wants and that's what everybody is looking for. and so i think you're right, that if you don't, you shouldn't get distracted by these things, it is sometime to cull it out, right, and sometimes the democratic party is a little bit too midwesternized for those of you who aren't from the midwest, it might not resonate with you as much, but we tend to be very nice as democrat, and i think it's time for us to say enough is enough. and start calling these things out. and then start talking about what folks would want to hear about. >> i'm from canada so i get the midwest nice thing. there are two election deniers who are running for statewide office in michigan. one of them is running for the position that would oversee the elections in the entire state. how does that resonate? when you were talking to people as you were campaigning, do people care about that stuff, the actual election integrity issue that has become so central to michigan politics? >> i think election integrity is, it's another one of the kind of misconceptions that the republican party is trying to throw out there. they wrap their message in what sounds like something that people would be interested in, when in fact it is anti-democratic, right? everything they talk about is anti-education, anti-democratic, anti-health care, and anti-everything that they recognize as kind of a conundrum, the message is a little bit confusing for folks, so you hear election integrity, it sounds like we should get around it but when you understand election integrity and stripping voting rights from people and closing polling stations and disallowing absentee voting, things like that, that is not election integrity and a way tosee suppress the vote and that's how they see they can win and they can't win with the votes so they try to limit the people who can vote. >> carol glanville, the democratic michigan state representative elect. we appreciate your time. >> thank you so much. >> coming up next, the january 6th investigation interviewed donald trump jr. today. but that's not actually the most intriguing thing we learned about the investigation. that's next. about the investigation. that's next. do you struggle to fall asleep and stay asleep? qunol sleep formula combines 5 key nutrients that can help you fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer, and wake up refreshed. the brand i trust is qunol. today the january 6th investigation interviewed one of the highest profile witnesses yet. the former president's son, donald trump jr. "politico" reports the interview was conducted voluntarily, without a subpoena, and lasted several hours. no word on what was discussed. but investigators no doubt were interested in don jr.'s texts with trump chief of staff, and of course, in conversations that he may have had with his father. and here's one more piece of january 6th news you should know about. a few months ago, you may recall that this gentleman was arrested by federal agents. this is his mug shot there. his name is stewart rhodes and he, eye patch and all, is the leader of a right wing dress-up pseudo para military organization called the oath keepers, arrested and charged with seditious conspiracy, conspiracy against the united states government. stewart rhodes led a group of oath keepers to washington on january 6th. several of those oath keepers arranged themselves in these military stack formations, which formed a sort of sphere for the actual breaking into the capitol that day. the indictment of stewart rhodes and ten other oath keepers on charges, including seditious conspiracy, describes what they planned that day, and the quote plot to oppose by force the 2020 lawful transfer of presidential power. on the sixth of january, oath keepers were not actively storming the capitol were stationed with what they called quick reaction force, just outside of washington, d.c. where they stockpiled weapons, presumably ready to be able to access them on short notice and come in blazing. calvary-esque. today a new development in this case. one that may bring the oath keepers plot that day one step closer to president trump and his inner circle. the leader of the north carolina chapter of the oath keepers today pled guilty to that seditious conspiracy charge, he's now the third oath keeper to do so. mr. wilson, that's his name, he has agreed to cooperate with federal prosecutors as parts of the plea and already told them about one alarming episode about which we previously did not know. william todd wilson says that about 5:00 p.m., on january 6th, he and stewart rhodes and other oath keepers left the capitol and went to a nearby hotel. at the hotel, quote, rhodes gathered wilson and other co-conspirators inside of a private suite, roads then called an individual over speaker phone. wilson heard rhodes repeatedly implore the individual to tell president trump to call upon groups like the oath keepers to forcibly oppose the transfer of power. this individual denied rhodes' request to speak directly with president trump, after the call ended, rhodes stated to the group, i just want to fight. so the leader of this para-military group, with a bunch of people stationed with stockpiles of weapons just outside of washington, d.c. trited to get in touch with president trump to try to get some kind of go ahead order i presume didn't get through to the president but whoever was at the other end of that phone line had the ability to connect him with donald trump that day. who was stewart rhodes talking to? and if this was someone with direct access to president trump why, did the leader of a para-military group have the person's phone number in the first place? it's hard not to wonder what would have happened if rhodes had reached president trump that day. we'll be right back. day. we'll be right back. (woman) oh. oh! hi there. you're jonathan, right? the 995 plan! yes, from colonial penn. your 995 plan fits my budget just right. excuse me? aren't you jonathan from tv, that 995 plan? yes, from colonial penn. i love your lifetime rate lock. that's what sold me. she thinks you're jonathan, with the 995 plan. -are you? -yes, from colonial penn. we were concerned we couldn't get coverage, but it was easy with the 995 plan. -thank you. -you're welcome. i'm jonathan for colonial penn life insurance company. this guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance plan is our #1 most popular plan. it's loaded with guarantees. if you're age 50 to 85, $9.95 a month buys whole life insurance with guaranteed acceptance. you cannot be turned down for any health reason. there are no health questions and no medical exam. and here's another guarantee you can count on: guaranteed lifetime coverage. your insurance can never be cancelled. just pay your premiums. guaranteed lifetime rate lock. your rate can never increase. pardon me, i'm curious. how can i learn more about this popular 995 plan? it's easy. just call the toll-free number for free information. (soft music) ♪ a steel plant in the hard-hit ukrainian city of mariupol remains a target of heavy russian -- artillery ten weeks into the russian invasion. thick smoke rising over the building where hundreds of civilians and ukrainian soldiers have been under siege a commander with the azov battalion, the last ukrainian fighters left in mariupol, posted this video to the tell gam saying russian forces had broken into the territory of the plant and that quote there are heavy bloody battles. the kremlin claims the forces are not storming the plant but suppressing attempts from so-called militants to fire from new positions. just a few hours ago, the international red cross and the united nations announced that more than 300 civilians had arrived in zaporzhiazhia after a safe passage operation from mariupol and surrounding areas. that followed the safe aprifl from several evacuees yesterday, buses had the first group of evacuees who had been holed up in the steel plant of mariupol, with little food and water as russian forces continue to batter the city. the russian forces forces, and the effort to take to safety, when some residents stepped aboard ground on friday to meet a u.n.-backed evacuation convoy, that first daylight in weeks felt like it was burning people's eyes as the scene they witnessed sent some into shock. for the most part only women and children were able to join the evacuate effort as the russians did not allow young men of fighting age to leave. at least three mothers interviewed by post reporters said that they had ultimately had to make a choice, stay with their husbands, or save their children. the post adds, the drive normally takes less than four hours. but because of active shelling, shooting, and numerous russian checkpoints along the way, it turned into a grinding 36-hour or deal. when the buses arrived, the passengers looked shattered. joining us now from dnipro ukraine is the correspondent who wrote that report, ms. lovelack, the interview chief for the "washington post" and reporting on the ground in ukraine for the past month. luisa, thanks for joining us. you have been speaking to some of these evacuees who really do appear to be reeling, they have been sieged, they have endured the devastation in their community outside of the plant. what have you learned? >> what really strikes me is although they have waited for so long to get here, when they arrived, the silence, they sit there, they look out the window, they don't move very much, they hold their kids, they pull them toward them and you can see really on their faces the depth of what they've been through. often they find it quite difficult to even articulate and we had talked to them with the press, and these are people who need months, potentially years to get over what they have been through, and it is a particularly horrific, and it has marked them, deeply harrowing. >> and part of the problem, as press, is we're not close to that, so we rely on information coming out of the area, in mariupol, and then when we meet these people, but it's not just what they've been through, right, they're still going through it. you report on the fact that in many cases, these are separated families, they have left, they have made, what a choice to have to make, leave your spouse, your husband behind, to save your children, that's got to be devastating, that can't be something that can be -- >> exactly. you talk to people who come out and you try to understand a little bit about what happened and how they're feeling, one of the things that people often say is listen, i don't know how i'm feeling yet, they're still very much in the throes was trauma of what happened to them. women as you say, have to choose whether to stay with their husbands or take their children out, and one of the families we were talking to said that one of the big signs that she realized she had taken the children out, the children had almost gotten used to the situation inside and two kids, 10 to 14 and in the first months they were shaking and crying a lot at night and in the second month, the situation was worse, and bombardment, swirling dust through the ceiling and fantastic discontinued affected their children and they were quiet and she knew she had to say goodbye to her husband and get on the bus and leave. and russia has moved up the effort to attack the plant. and these people, they got to the evacuation point, and they have gotten their phones, and oddly they had cell phone coverage, and the first time they are learning in the outside what has happened. we saw people watching the smoke in the air over the plant and i think it was really something to start to sink in what they had left behind and who they left behind. >> we have been concentrating on eastern and southeastern ukraine where russia has been focusing attention, you're in dnip in the middle of the country and dnipro river divides east and west and we have seen the strikes around dnipro, have you seen or heard anything? >> yes, one was very close to our hotel last night. the strikes were one of an ongoing campaign to attack the infrastructure, the russian forces trying to cripple the ukrainian countrywide. and one thing that is important to understand is that yes, theyve move military equipment, yes they move soldiers, but they also move fear and we have been turning up to the railroad stations, and in the days and weeks, and talked about how they feel about their safety, and in a place that is also one of the most dangerous places in ukraine. a couple of days ago, there was an explosion over the railroad station that we were at. and it was i think very telling what we saw, the evacuation train was ready to go, there were hundreds of people on board, and the railroad workers scattered. they were terrified. but on the train, where you had the people who had been under shelling for weeks, they just sat again, they were silent, they stared through the window. and while the railway workers were in fresh trauma. coming out of the situation, waiting for evacuation. >> what a thing to get used to it, to be okay with the sound of shelling, because it is a regular thing in your life. thank you very much for your reporter. the baghdad bureau chief for the "washington post," based now in ukraine. while this war is going on. we thank you for making time in the middle of night now, almost ak in the morning in ukraine. thank you. coming up next, why one woman who has spent her life bringing abortion care to women in red states isn't giving up. this is what "the new york times" on august 4th, 1991 said, quote the one story clinic, women its health care services, run by dr. george r. tiller, has become the lightning rod for the battle. end quote. in what could be known as the summer of mercy, thousands of members of an anti-abortion group called operation rescue descended on the city of wichita using their bodies to physically block access to abortion clinics offered while screaming threats and prayers at the clinic's workers and prayers at the patients and thousands were arrested and it took a quarter of wichita's entire police force to control the crowd. as "the new york times" reported at the time, the protesters say the confrontation here is the beginning of the fight that is building as the supreme court moves closer, they say, to overturning roe v. wade. the decision that legalized abortion in 1973. end quote. that was also the summer that our next guest, julie burkehart started working at that very abortion clinic in wichita on a summer break from college. every other abortion clinic in wichita had closed because of the continued harassment. but women's health care services did not. dr. george tiller and judy burkehart kept it open for nearly two more decades. despite if all. then on may 31, 2009, the only remaining abortion provider in the entire city of wichita, dr. george tiller, was shot in the head and killed by an anti-abortion extremist. and for about four years after the murder of george tiller, the 400,000 people of wichita had no abortion provider between them. other doctors were understandably scared off by threats and harassments. and the women's health care services clinic shut down. but in 2013, julie burkehart reopened it. because doctors didn't feel comfortable living in wichita give its violent history toward abortion providers, she flew them in. she later opened a second clinic oklahoma city, the first new abortion clinic in the state of oklahoma in more than 40 years. given her work over the years, it is no wonder that julie burkehart has become a trusted voice on this show. our producer visited her clinic in wichita. the founder of the group called wellspring health accession and has plans to open another reproductive health care clinic in casper, wyoming, this summer, providing abortion services. wyoming is one of the many states by the way that recently passed what is known as a trigger law. it is a law that would ban abortions in wyoming, automatically, five days after the supreme court overturns roe v. wade. given the news this week, could happen fairly soon. julie burkehart has been on the front lines of the battle for reproductive health in this country for more than 30 years. and that's where she finds herself once again. joining us now, julie burkehart, founder of the wellspring health access the former ceo of the trust women foundation. thank you very much for being with us. this story means something very different to you than it does for many people. obviously, it affects everybody differently. but you have literally been on the front lines. you work with george tiller, who was violently murdered as part of the fight. what is going through your mind today, and this week, after seeing this draft supreme court opinion that overturns roe or it will overturn roe. >> well, thank you, ali, for having me on. i must say that when i looked at the draft opinion that came out, and read the opinion, i can say that i was devastated. as were all of us across this country who fight so hard for reproductive health care and who provide access to reproductive health care. it was quite a gut punch. but one thing that i, i feel that is really important for us to remember in this time, is that abortion is still legal, and that we cannot let they don't rail and distract us from our work that is right in front of us at this moment in time. it was quite a horrific draft opinion. i couldn't believe that i was reading it. but it was right there. on the pages. >> we have spoken to a number of abortion services providers over the last couple of days and they have said recently and in recent month, particularly in states that have been imposing restrictions or in states neighboring those who have imposed restrictions, that they switched some of their workers, not just from the provision of abortion services, and counseling, and health care, but into logistics, helping people figure out how to travel, where to get the money from, things like that, that is a step further than many of them had to go recently. you're going yet further than that. you have plans to continue to open a new clinic. >> yes, absolutely. and we are working to open this clinic in the state of wyoming, we are very close to opening our doors. wyoming has been an underserved state for many years, and we are going to be there, working with a couple of other providers in the state, but we will be adding procedural abortion care, as well as full spectrum reproductive health care as well as gender affirming care as well. we want to bring access to health care, equality in health care, namely abortion care, in the state of wyoming, so we're moving full steam ahead. >> let me ask you about oklahoma. the governor of oklahoma just yesterday signed oklahoma's own trigger law will allow, like texas, it will allow a private citizen to sue anyone who quote aids or abets a woman seeking an abortion after six weeks of pregnancy. how does that work for people like you? you would be considered someone who aids and abets an abortion in a place like oklahoma. >> well, that's correct. and also, it doesn't end there. it has impacts on families, friends, colleagues, it puts people in a situation where they can't be open and honest, and it's incredibly dangerous and harmful to people across this country, in the states where these might stand where people who are trying to access reproductive health care. it's, i was incredibly disappointed but not surprised that the governors did find that. >> julie burkehart, thank you for your time tonight and thank for the time you have given this important issue for more than three decade, wellspring health access, we appreciate you being here tonight. rachel is lear on monday. and if you would like to record the show that is produced by her staff, dvr the rachel maddow and you will get that on monday, the rachel maddow show and msnbc prime, rachel on monday, and msnbc prime tuesday, through friday. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is up next. this is the fight over abortion. as democrats face growing pressure to protect a woman's right to choose. consider --