welcome to "meet the press daily." it'she a lot of topics that cou have vied for the lead today. we'll begin with the new fallout inside the republican party. mccarthy had to meet behind closed doors this morning. this time it's audio showing how concerned mccarthy and his entire leadershipnd team is. we're about what was going on inside their party as they try to tamp downth on some of the unhinged rhetoric and attacks that were coming from their own member. people like congressman mattgates. here is some of the audio released by reporters.ga that was, of course, this is from the upcoming book that'll be released next week by "new york times" reporters. what is happening now how dramatically and suddenly -- the democratic principles in the wake of the attack on the seat of our democracy. mccarthy's e comments from them seem rational in the moment, even morally upstanding, they are verboten now. according to reports from inside the meeting, the republican caulk cause today received a standing ovation after distancing himself fromst what said over the insurrection. >> we need to keep pushing for -- this is distractions, folks. come on. this istr simply a distractionsy the left trying to drive a wedge in a unified republican party. >> did you listen to the mccarthy audio released? >> sure. >> what was your response? >> my response was that it was edited. you see, i know the art of editing. i'm not sure. i'm not sure in what context. >> folks, mccarthy's conduct tells the story of the current republican party and the immediate aftermath of thebl attack on the capitol. he said the former president had responsibility for the attack and then some of his members were acting irresponsibly. once the political winds blowing the otheron direction were clea to him, mccarthy followed those winds seemingly comfortable to follow trump's marching orders a way to further his own standing in the party. his own obsession with getting the speaker's gallo, no matter what it takes. what happens next? what happens to the party built on lies and the ultimate pursuit of power? potentially gets the power next year. for oneow thing, it means this version of the republican party may not have any hopes of actually governing. we have new reporting from inside the caucus meeting this morning. and with us is eugene scott, and msnbc political analyst carlos. it seems if mccarthy is trying to 2k3we9 a pass saying trump -- after knowing this anyway and none of this is new. it worked? >> it does time like it worked. i think the interesting thing, chuck, i ran into mccarthy last night as he was leaving votes and we asked him does he think it could h derail his bid for speaker. it'sl the only question of several he responded to in real time. he told me "no." it gives a sense where he thinks his speakership bid is. we thought it would matter if it mattered to trump. it doesn't seem like it does. s what the new audio does is present a wrinkle in that. it shows mccarthy was talking not just about the former president but aboutut members o his own conference in the days after januaryer 6th. that came to a head today inside that gop huddle. while lawmakers did present a united front outside withwm reporters, what my sources are telling me and other members of our capitol hill team, is that congress and mattgates took congressman steve ska let's to task over the comments he made in the leaked audio. gaetz took congressman steve ska let's to task over the comments he made in the leaked audio. they described it as heated. both sides were standing their ground. we're told that marjorie taylor-greene scalise he should apologize to matt gaetz. mccarthy may be skating above this, atay least for right now, with the majority of his conference, he got the standing ovation. you saw on camera people leaving the meeting saying he was going to be the speaker. that was the chorus here. at the same time, the meeting does present there are still some feelings even in the fringe but trump-aligned parts of the conference that could potentiallyof be a problem goin forward here. 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♪ there's no hidden fees, ♪ ♪ no price hikes, one cord ♪ ♪ bro, wow ♪ introducing t-mobile 5g home internet. just $50 bucks a month. it's that simple. ♪ ♪ here's to real flavors... real meals. real good. all of knorr's high quality pasta and rice sides are now made with no artificial flavors or preservatives. knorr. taste for good. we have resolved our big tech problem. it's back. ali, i want to round up one quick question to you as we were wrapping up our conversation there after that long interlude. that is, is there anybody that is going to use this moment of weakness with mccarthy to try to launch their own campaign for the speaker's gavel? >> yeah, look, that's kind of the open question here, chuck. it's one thing if mccarthy had a challenger. right now we're not really hearing any names. notedly people in the past two have been counter to mccarthy are now saying that they think he's going to be speaker. people like, for example, congressman jim jordan, the freedom caucus widely has not been critical of him in the aftermath of this audio. i think the piece where this goes forward is where the january 6th committee. i ran into benny thompson and asked him if he's going to be subpoenaed. he said they want to talk to him. they don't have him agreeing to that yet. they'll be talk abouting for they move forward on subpoenas by the end of the week. whether it's a sliding time line. we'll see. >> they haven't subpoenaed moe brooks, correct? >> right. yeah. i think there are legal questions on that, i think. ali, i know you got to run. we'll let you go. let me continue with my other three guests. carlos, i think i know the reason why mccarthy seems safe. that is because nobody wants to deal with the alternative mccarthy and everybody thinks they can mold mccarthy into what they want him to be. if you're a moderate like nancy, you think mccarthy will have your back. or if you're jim jordan, you think, yeah, i've got him by the short hairs and he can't move that much either. is that what keeps mccarthy in charge? >> well, chuck, i think that's right. kevin mccarthy is a people pleaser. he gets along with everyone. he has a gentle, happy dispositions about him. he doesn't make anyone angry. i will say this, chuck, it is always easier to portray unity when you're the minority party. right now republicans are looking ahead. they think they can win in november of this year. the polling indicates they can. and will. if the election were held today. once they come to power, depending on how large that majority is or isn't, these divisions may reappear. members like matt gaetz and marjorie taylor greene will be up for stirring the pot. you have other members who are now listening to what mccarthy said in private, which is what they feel, and may have some resentment toward him on the other side. or, you know, the less trump members or the centrist members. for now, things look good for mccarthy. once republicans come to power, if they do win the majority, that could all change. >> you know eugene, i want to play this one. i want to play out the second audio. >> go back to a sin he committed here. you know, he reacted the way, i think, any rational human being would have reacted in the moment like that. >> absolutely. we have that reporting in the "washington post." i think there are two main pieces why he'll get away with this. he seems to have the support of trump still. but he was pretty much recorded saying what many republican lawmakers were thinking at the moment. >> were telling many of us. >> yes. do it without question. and so they cannot be that upset with him for processing this insurrection. the way any rational lawmaker would have. he ultimately made the right decision at the end, according to president trump. in the moment, i think other go on lawmakers could relate to how he handled everything. >> why do you see and hear from republican members. it seems to have empowered matt gaetz and that crowd again. it's the last thing they want. >> i think matt gaetz is an exception to the rule. most don't want to speak on the record to this or in private. i think right now members will do what is convenient for them right now. that's retaking the majority and keeping the focus on inflation. the border crisis. they wouldn't answer our questions last night. they said border, border, that's what we're talking about. a lot of house republicans, moderates, told me after the conference today we're frustrated in the short term but at the end of the day it was a snapshot in time when tensions were high. people will rally behind him. i think carlos is right they're focussed on retaking the majority. the frustrations might come to a head after november. >> you know i think about that. john boehner couldn't govern for awhile. paul ryan struggled and that's why he walked away. you want to talk about ambitious, one person might be more ambitious is jim banks. i see you nodding your headstrongly. you tend to agree, right? >> absolutely. people are going to do what is convenient for them and for somebody like him or steve scalise who wants to rise in the ranks, this is an opportunity. >> carlos, to me jim banks is the guy i would be most concerned about if, i'm mccarthy. >> there are jim banks and a couple of others who are watching carefully. with steve scalise, it seems he receded a little bit. i remind people, when republicans were waiting to take the majority during the obama presidency, everyone was excited about john boehner. people were excited about ryan. there are a lot of threats surrounding mccarthy and the delicate balance of having to keep not just his own members but for the first time ever, someone external to the house, donald trump happy and pleased. that is very difficult. it's too many balls to juggle. at some point, one will fall. >> right. we can picture one scenario. a movement that wants it start impeachment and wants to get articles of impeachment out there. whether it's for joe biden, mayor kus, you know, all sorts of things. anna mccarthy said it's not the time. >> they've had a hard time getting on the same page with a lot of issues. if they are successful in getting the house back and mccarthy is the leader, we'll see it'll more difficult for them to govern moving forward. >> this is a number game. if the margin is small, mccarthy will never be speaker. if the margin is a good one, they win 20 plus seats, he probably has the padding. >> yeah. as i mentioned, talked to a lot of moderate republicans who he fundraises for. his leadership pac take back the house, fundraises even for house republicans who voted to impeach him, i believe, quite a few of them. so there's no incentive for them to trash him now. i think the important thing to remember is that when he lied to the "new york times," he didn't just lie to the american people. he lied to his members. and a lot of them have had to defend him on tv. i know a pretty high-ranking house republican who defended him on tv the other day. after wards he expressed privately it was embarrassing and, frankly, frustrating he had to do that. >> it gets to the larger picture here. you expressed your version of disgust on this. the party is allowing itself -- it's built on a lie. you know, they'll get power based on a lie and then what? how do you govern? >> well, that's right. the party right now is a fully owned subsidiary of the trump organization. that's not the entity that can do its job. when you're motivated by fear, this this case the former president, it's very difficult to lead under those circumstances. so you'll see a lot of unity up until november if they take over the house. all the cracks will merge again and we'll see what comes after that. >> the irony eugene, i don't know if it matters. >> yeah. nobody cares about january 6th except for the press. he literally said that. as long as voters not going to hold the lawmakers accountable for this, they don't have anything to worry about. >> i think i've seen -- i've probably watched a thousand television cycles. i think i've seen two of january 6th. i mean, that is something. and even kevin mccarthy -- what the right has done to nancy pelosi the left has not done with mccarthy. >> i think that right now republicans are trying to express their voters care about inflation, the border, things like that. focussing on january 6th is not something they care about. they change the topic of conversation when i ask them about this. public or private. i think it'll continue to be like that. >> sadly, carlos, even though what would be right for the history books and the investigation, there is no upside for kevin mccarthy to voluntarily participate in the january 6th investigation, is there? >> no. i think the most we'll get from him, you know, are the leaks and secondhand accounts of things he told other people. again, the sad part is, it's obvious where he stood as a couple of people said already. >> yeah. mccarthy is a normal guy. i mean, his reaction to january 6th was visceral. he was agitated and anxious and nervous and worried. he can't say any of these things. he can't admit them. that's very frustrating. >> audrey, eugene, carlos, thank you for bearing with the technical issues here. but, hey, it's live television. we have even more on the future of the republican party and how all sides are pointing to their inability to govern on the next episode of "the chuck todd cast." get it free wherever you get your podcast. it's a fun conversation. still ahead, washington and moscow engage in a surprise prisoner exchange. as russia halts all gas supplies to bulgaria. isn't that an act of war? we have the latest on the warf ukraine ahead. n the warf n the warf ukraine ahead. on our jackets? -denied. -can you imagine? i want a new nickname. can you guys start calling me snake? no, bryan. -denied. -how about wget quotes to see if we can save with america's number one motorcycle insurer? approved. cool! hey, if bryan's not gonna be snake, can i be snake? -all: no. here's to real flavors... real meals. real good. all of knorr's high quality pasta and rice sides are now made with no artificial flavors or preservatives. knorr. taste for good. welcome back. with the war in ukraine about to enter the ninth week. american trevor reed was released as part of a prisoner exchange between washington and moscow. reed is a former marine. arrested nearly three years ago after russian officials accused him of assaulting an officer. his family maintained his innocence, the u.s. considered him an unjustly detainee. in exchange for him, the u.s. agreed to free a russian pilot that was convicted of drug trafficking. they tweeted that team members have travelled to lviv to meet with key partners as the embassy prepares to resume operations in kyiv. russia decided to cut off gas supplies to poland and bulgaria. cutting them for refusing to pay for shipments in rubles. on the ground in ukraine, officials said russian forts continued attacking a steel plant in mariupol. officials in the odesa region said a railway bridge that had come under attack is now collapsed. so with me now is retired general, nato supreme allied commander in europe and distinguished chair of the middle east. general, let's use the phrase gas blackmail. what they're doing. it seems as if i that keep trying to find ways to have the west stop helping ukraine. i don't know what they think they're going to accomplish here. however, it does rattle the alliance economically. >> so, first of all, thank you for having me on the show. this is not new. if you remember back in 2013 or 2014, when they first attacked ukraine, they did the same thing. one of the coldest winters in history they shut off fuel and heating oil, et. cetera, to ukraine and people died as a result of freezing to death in their apartments. so using energy as a tool in warfare is nothing to russia. and i would offer that russia is specifically in a war with ukraine, but they are also, in general, at war with the west. we should expect them to use these kinds of tools. >> at what point in your mind, general, does it become an act of war? >> i believe it already is. basically mr. putin is seeking to further deterrence. we are already deterred, as you know, from doing things like introducing forces and other things. we're deterred by his nuclear threats. he is seeking now further deter us with the energy and economic tools. >> what should be a response here? i mean, i know where you stand. i think in that, i think that -- you're not alone in thinking this, quite a few people believe that we've allowed him to declare lines of deterrence that perhaps we shouldn't be abiding by. this one feels like an easy one not to abide by nuclear is another story. what is the best way to push back on this? >> well, what we have done in 2008, 2014, and in the lead up to 2022, we have done sanctions. and what is very clear is that sanctions have never changed mr. putin's actions. they have hurt russia. they have hurt the russian people, they hurt russian economy, but they have not changed mr. putin's actions. we need to reach for different tools in our toolbox to affect mr. putin's actions. i think that we started down that path at the conference in germany recently. all the defense ministers and met with secretary austin. >> so there's another way to look at this reaction, though, by putin. ukraine is making his military's life miserable. he's trying to do whatever he could to at least halt or disrupt the flow of arms going into ukraine. this is a bit of a sign of desperation, is it not? >> well, clearly he suffered a strategic -- in the north. defeated in detail by the ukrainian forces. and now he's trying to reset and do better in the east and in the south. frankly, it hasn't got off to a great start either. we have yet to see the big thrust of armor we have spent. it's too early to start celebrating. there's a lot of danger in the east. but it hasn't started as quickly as he wanted. you're right. he's beginning to reach for other tools to try to effect this. >> two days ago, it was lavrov again trying to talk about nukes here. and i did get the sense that the west kind of brushed that off >>well, we need to respect the idea of nukes. the lead general, mr. putin have written and talked many times about how nukes are a logical extension of the conventional boundary of something we don't believe in the west at all. >> right. >> we can't just -- we have to remember, also, i don't mean to be disrespectful to a diplomat from another nation, but mr. lavrov is the chief disinformer of the disinforming campaign. so we need to just be careful about mr. lavrov and what he says. >> you spent a long time studying the russian military. are you surprised at how poorly its performing? >> so, this is going to be something that we in the field and many look at for years to come. what is very clear is that russia arrived especially in the north expecting a very different war. when you're then open with a reaching forward with open arms when you plan for that and then get engaged in a fight you didn't expect, it's really hard to recover. >> yeah. >> and, frankly, the two-week pause where he went back and referred to the yellow jacket east, i'm not sure it's long enough to recover. they started a war they were not ready for. they have taken it with them. now there is a lot of force left in russia. so we don't want -- i don't mean to be flippant, but we don't want to do a happy dance yet. we have a lot left to go. >> no and there's no doubt it could go a -- it could end upturning in a bad direction. but a phrase i've learned a lot more about recently the porcupine strategy here. isn't that making conventional warfare that many folks have learned for decades obsolete given how well counter insurgencies seem to work now? >> well, i don't mean to argue but i wouldn't call what they've been doing counter insurgency. they have built a magnificent defensive depth with skirmishing and ambushes, et. cetera. so, frankly, russia made some huge mistakes. any person who is involved with armored warfare will tell you you don't send tanks into an area without a dismounted infantry support. when you do, you get what you got in the north. infantry as close as 10 meters shooting into your tanks. they took a whipping because they did a basically unfundamental thing and sent tanks in without dismounted support. if they had done it more appropriately, we might be looking at a different position on the battle field. >> what you're describing then is a humorous issue. it's good to get your perspective, sir. i appreciate it. >> thank you for having me on. >> you got it. up next the white house urges action from congress on immigration and title 42. we'll speak with congressman adrienne know es pea lot. a member of the congressional spanish caucuses leadership who meet -- met with the president this week. ish caucuses leadersh meet -- met with the president meet -- met with the president this week.ore fresh and delicious taste. plus, superior nutrition. which is now more important than ever. because the way we care... is anything but ordinary. only eggland's best. ♪♪ . welcome back. the department of homeland security is on the hill for two different hearings today. he defends the administration's new plan to secure the southern border once title 42 is lifted. this six-point plan comes weeks of criticism painting the department as unprepared for the surge of migrants expected do come to the southern border. he laid out responsibility for the crisis to the feet of lawmakers. there's something he would like to do but can't because of the law. he said congress has to do its part. >> we inherited a broken and dismantled system that is under already strain. it's not built to manage the current levels and types of migratory flows. only congress can fix this. >> when the dhs plan will be set into motion could be up in the air after a judge said early this week they plan to issue a temporary retraining order. joining me now is -- jo ann, this plan is somewhat limited. i've heard lots of ideas that said let's surge asylum judges to the countries where they're coming from but that all needs -- those have laws changed here. there's only so much they can do. >> ought radio. i think it also might come down to funding issue. we reported last week they're looking at hundreds of millions of dollars in a budget shortfall with the numbers turn out to be higher than predicted. so now -- >> i've estimates it could be up 12,000 a day. >> 12,000 seems realistic. my -- mayorkas said they could be preparing for 18,000. basically it comes down to the fact they might need more money. they said they may have to ask congress for a supplemental. he's giving them a heads up. >> is there some sort of emergency that the president can declare that can open up some money? because i'm sorry good luck trying to get money out of this group. >> right. trump did that. he shut down the government that ran the border wall and used that pulpit to try to get national guard down there. that seems to be the exact opposite direction that this administration wants to go. they want less attention on the issue. they don't want to the claim it's a national security issue that requires the defense department. they want to handle it with the available resources. they have a new program they want to try out. because that wasn't congressionally funded, they wanted $15 million to do more asylum adjudications at the border, without that,st a drop in the bucket. >> is it about changing the status. giving them the ability to create new asylum judges. >> essentially. if they decide you don't pass the initial interview, which they've been doing them all along, you could be deported. >> that person could adjudicate? >> right. if they're negative, they have, you know, in other words if they're found not to qualify, they do have the right to then go to appeal to a court. it can sometimes be a two to four year wait. the idea to be able to get this done more quickly. the whole issue with this is you have backlogs. that's the last thing this administration wants. >> that's how we get the pictures. >> right. they don't want the people under the bridge and people who can't sleep in shelters. >> it's a never-ending -- >> it is. >> thank you. joined now by democratic congressman from new york adriano espaillat. it's good to see you. let me start with what you heard from the plan that secretary mayorkas rolled out today. there's a lot of things they would like to do. congress would have to change some laws. is this a workable solution? >> this is a good start. i think it's an excellent start. it increases border patrol at the border. it also helps some of the ngos working with the migrants and it targets and disrupts drug smugglers. it also decreases transportation. this is a good start. the president has to present the budget that calls for $621 million increase for immigration court. it calls for a $6.3 billion allowance to the office of refugee settlement. and really, i think, also asks for the kind of funding that we need to address what is going to happen at the border. i think we need funding and congress must provide it. >> is there a way to, look, a larger immigration bill is going nowhere. the white house likes to say they introduced a bill on day one. okay. they're not putting a shoulder into it. they're not putting a shoulder into it, they're not trying to get it past. we know the politics of this. is there a way to break it out and just get a deal to reform the asylum system solely? is that possible? >> well, first, we met with the president this week and part of our efforts is exactly do that, to see how through executive action we could get some of the pieces, important pieces of comprehensive immigration reform passed. one of them is reuniting families. there is a backlog of competitions, families that petition for their family members have to wait decades. by time they get to the front of the line, they're adults. so there's 4 million people waiting to reunite with their families. in addition, tps, temporary protective status, we want to make sure that countries that have been in the program since 1999, they're redesignated. i think we heard an open window from the president on these two. the asylum procedures are ones we should address through funding. and mayorkas has come out with a way to deal with anyone. this is a nation that has a long history, whether they come from ukraine or el salvador or a move taking their 12 or 13-year-old because they're being recruited by a violent gang and walks several thousand miles to the border, that mom should be heard. and if she cuts mustard and if the story and her reasoning is legitimate, then she should be allowed in. if not, then she should go back home. this is something that's very important for our country. that's what we stand for as a nation and we should provide the mechanisms for this to continue to happen when it's necessary. >> do you have an issue with the asylum programming done in country? you'd have to change sort of the definition of things. right now i think technically that becomes a refugee program if you're doing it in country sometimes. but would you have a problem and you talk about somebody from honduras who wants to seek asylum, is it a problem for you if that asylum claim is adjudicated in honduras? >> there's no reason why the greatest country in the world cannot have the capacity to process people as they come in. i think that's the humane thing to do. to keep them on the other side of the wall is kind of inhumane and this doesn't speak well of america. we're a country that's a nation of an immigrant. i'm an immigrant. now i'm a member of congress. i had to petition to come here. so this is something that's fundamental for our country. i think that we can do this if providing that the right funding levels, if the public policy is in place and if we have the political will to do it. >> do you think that nations along this basically that are part of the trail that comes here, not just mexico but honduras and nicaragua and panama, what could we be doing with them to incentivize them to help us in this situation rather than essentially, i know in the case of panama, they actually tried to accelerate the migration process up to the north. >> you know, i'm glad you used mexico because most of the migrants are not coming from mexico right now. in fact, there is a surge in migration back to mexico from mexicans in the united states because they have better economic opportunities right now in that country. and because they have taken a deep dive and seen what the root causes are and they're trying to address it. it is countries in the triangle countries like honduras, guatemala and el salvador where we're getting the vast number of migrants and we should be able to help those countries. i'm a supporter of making sure we provide latin american countries in our hemisphere the opportunities to have a trade with the united states, rather than rely on us as we did during the pandemic on countries that are on the other side of the country in asia, we can rely on countries that are our neighbor, our allies, to produce the goods and services that we need here in the united states. that will create jobs. i think that's the best migration program for these countries is the creation of jobs. another one, of course, is dealing with violence. hopefully we'll pass the caribbean based security initiative today in congress, which would allot money to combat crime to interdict drugs. these are things that we must do to lead the hemisphere. we're really the leaders of the hemisphere, we should act like it. >> the lost opportunities this country has had by failing to be leaders of this hemisphere is too much to finish this conversation today. i really appreciate you coming on. >> moments ago the funeral services regarding madeleine albright concluded. the first woman to be a u.s. secretary of state. president biden, former president clinton and former secretary of state hillary clinton all delivered very moving tributes. >> to madeline from my perspective, there is no higher mission, no greater honor than to serve this greater experience. >> she made us laugh. she made us cry. some of us she made mad. but she had a full, hopeful life because she knew what she believed in, she knew what she was for, she knew what she was against. >> she didn't just help other women. she spent her entire life counseling and cajoling, inspiring and lifting up so many of us who are here today. >> madeleine albright passed away last month at the age of 84. apologies for those technical difficulties at the top. we'll be back tomorrow with more "meet the press daily." rrow wit momore "meet the press daily. forty-two college campus tours... four overseas postings... one minor stroke... and four citywide blackouts... and now, with leqvio, you can lower your cholesterol, too. when taken with a statin, leqvio is proven to lower bad cholesterol by over 50% and keep it there with two doses a year. common side effects of leqvio were injection site reaction, joint pain, urinary tract infection, diarrhea, chest cold, pain in legs or arms, and shortness of breath. with leqvio, lowering cholesterol becomes just one more thing life throws your way. ask your doctor if leqvio is right for you. lower. longer. leqvio. zero-commission trades for online u.s. stocks and etfs. and a commitment to get you the best price on every trade, which saved investors over $1.5 billion last year. that's decision tech. only from fidelity. >> tech: need to get your windshield fixed? 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