at least for now, responding to a leaked audio mccarthy saying he plans to tell trump to resign, just days after the capitol. trump told the journal that mccarthy quickly changed his stance, when he quote, found out the facts. while we don't know exactly what facts he is following, we do know the mob that stormed the u.s. capitol after the now former president told him to quote fight like hell, to overturn, again, biden's fair and free election victory. but even with trump's forgiveness, mccarthy is still working to skirt the truth. yesterday, he was just describing a phone call he had with trump. take a listen. >> my conversation is very good, because the conversation here is what they, what they said we did we never did. let me be very clear, i have never asked the president to resign. so what the book said was not true. i never asked the president to resign. we talked about the ability to win the majority back in congress. >> win the majority back in congress. sure, and then, there's the new revelation about senate minority leader mitch mcconnell, in the book, this will not pass by authors alexander burns and jonathan martin of the new york times, speaking of trump's behavior on january 6th. the book claims mcconnell said, and i quote, if this is un-impeachable, i don't know what is. and when it comes to impeachment, the book claims mcconnell knew the senate matt as well as anyone, and he told his advisers he expected a robust bipartisan vote for conviction, and that after congress, could then bar trump from ever holding public office again. senate republicans never produced 17 votes needed, and here is what mcconnell said at the conclusion of trump's trial. take a listen. >> if president trump was still in office, i would have carefully considered whether the house manages proved to prove their specific charge. former president trump's constitutionally not eligible for conviction. >> so, what does accountability look like for republicans who had the opportunity to act against trump, but chose not to? joining me now is advisor to the democratic congressional committee. he's also contributed for usa today and the l. a. times. and with us is jacqueline alemany, congressional investigator and correspondent for the washington post. and nyu law professor melissa murray, she is also an msnbc contributor. thank you so much for joining us on this saturday. i have so many questions for you, but i am going to go ahead and get started with you, jackie, because you have the closest reporting of what is happening on capitol hill. does this change the facts on the ground, the fact that mccarthy, we have him on audio saying that he was, he thought that trump was going to change his tune? >> yeah, maria, i'm not sure it changes the facts, in terms of the relationship between former president trump and minority leader kevin mccarthy, because as we reported on friday morning, they quickly spoke on the phone after the audiotapes were leaked. and essentially, into the conclusion that they were, it was still fine with, as he called him, my kevin. and told advisers that he basically thought this story was good for him, and showed his iron grip that is continued to really run the republican party. that being said, when minority leader mccarthy comes back, to washington this week, he's still gonna have a lot of questions to answer, not just to the media, but i think to the members who find this episode embarrassing, and also reiterating a lot of the past, who have really tried to put behind them. one member told me on friday, when we were sort of frantically surveying the house impeachment conference in the aftermath of this audio, this was almost having like a ptsd listen to that audio, because that is exactly where the conference was at the time. there were discussions about the fifth amendment, people were very upset with trump. and when minority leader mccarthy didn't actually go down to mar-a-lago, that now paints a picture of two of them, chasing came out, it was a bit of whiplash for many in congress. >> kurt, you are a republican strategist, and listening to how we see mccarthy flip flop when it comes to trump, it's almost a reminder of people saying that, putin-owned trump, and trump is now finding the exact same thing, that now he owns mccarthy. is that true? and what is the calculation of the republican party, by staying so close to some of that clearly wanting to overthrow the government? >> i don't think that there even is a strategy anymore. it is a strategy that revolves around one single person, and that's fealty to donald trump, to the point where it doesn't even matter if you tell the truth. it doesn't matter if you lie. it doesn't matter what you say to your colleagues, as long as you pledge allegiance to donald trump, you can pretty much survive anything, and i think it's a really dangerous development that you have a political party in america now, not really built on any core conviction, not put on any policy agenda, but built around, rallying people around the idea that democracy isn't real in america anymore. rolling them around the fact that there isn't, in their words, election integrity anymore. and that is a very, very steep and quick decline we've seen from this republican party, in a very short amount of time. so radicalization, and it's a cancer that has been pesticides all throughout it. and the fact that these lawmakers, after a domestic terrorist attack in their own backyard, couldn't find the motivation to do the right thing, which they all knew what the right thing was. they talk about it with each other, but they still couldn't actually move forward to do a thing publicly, it tells you how far gone they are. >> got the only thing i wanna -- you know, i would correct you on it it wasn't in their own backyard. it was in their house literally in their house! in this attempted coup. melissa, i wanna bring you in. one of the things that is a very striking about this new york times reporting is that oftentimes, mark meadows did not act like a traditional chief of staff. it seemed more that he was acting as a man, campaign aide, and providing people with information from with inside the white house. we know that tons of federal laws are existing on grounds where you can't actually do that, you cannot play that role inside a white house. can you speak about what might happen to mark meadows, if this is actually revealed, that some of the stuff was taking place, inside the white house for political gain? >> to be really clear, we saw a lot of the pourisness between these traditional divide, between the political fight of the presidency and the actual operation side of the presidency, once he's actually become the president throughout the trump administration. so we saw for example, that when he was in office, he conducted with was essentially a campaign, right from the white house, on the white house lawn. and those are clear hatch up violations. but we never saw anything received. so the real question, whether there was some slippage between the boundaries. there obviously was, but the real question is, is anyone going to do something about it, whether it's mark meadows, or anything that happened previously? >> i wanna go back to you, as a professor of law. what can we expect now? is the department of justice finally going to step in? >> i think this is the question everyone has, right? so the january six special committee has been doing their investigative work. they have held certain individuals who have been in contempt, and referred them to the department of justice. the department of justice is doing its own investigation, and again i think that's the question that most americans are asking, is there actually going to be accountability, serious accountability around what happened on january 6th? the special committee is part of that process, but again, it's purpose is investigative, and oversight oriented. it's not about punishing people for what they did. that really falls squarely into the domain of the doj, and i think everyone is waiting to see what will happen there. >> jacqui, one last question for you. congresswoman jamie raskin says the committee's work will quote, blow the roof off the house, when public hearings start in june. what are you watching in the wake of this? >> yeah, i mean, already just last night, a ton of new information was revealed. and with was simply a court filing, the committee filed a response to the former chief of staff mark meadows, making the argument that he should be compelled to appear before the testimony, and then release fairly significant new testimony from his legislative aid, one of the woman who was closest with him, and working closely with him in the white house, who said that he was warned that there could be violence. and also, recounted several meetings with house gop lawmakers at the white house, in advance of january six. and i think we're gonna get many more moments like that, but strong together in a compelling narrative away. it's unclear whether or not the committee has identified a smoking gun yet. they still have about a month left before the anticipated public hearings, and we know that they're working overtime to get these depositions done, along with some last minute mitigation efforts, hoping that this is going to wrap up and deliver some key documents to them. >> i mean, the web starts getting more torrent, you have testimony from his family, you have the doj, former doj officials, you have oaths oath keepers coming forward, you have his own staff, it seems like everything is coming in closer in trying to figure out, i think, most of americans, myself included, what else are they waiting for? thank you so much for joining us. right now, the former president is speaking in ohio. nbc's vaughn hillyard is there for us. vaughn, can you give us a little bit about what you're seeing right now, because especially, the mccarthy story right now breaking, is any of this news actually penetrating voters right now in that rally? >> you know, i think a good point here from this, maria teresa, is in fact the trump is continuing to travel around this country, galvanizing 10,000-plus people at these rallies here. if the january six committee does its thing, the audio recordings of kevin mccarthy come here, there is the reality that donald trump continues to exist as the power structure. this republican party here today. i talked to several dozen individuals, and asked them, does anybody here trust kevin mccarthy? and there was a resounding no. not a single individual was willing to defend kevin mccarthy. they didn't want him to be speaker of the house, if republicans take the house here. and i think that this is also where his rally is endorsement of jamie, who took this stage just a bit ago, i think there's that important connection point that you guys were talking about here. i was talking with one source, as to why trump will take in advance, and in large part, it's because vance used to be so opposed to him, calling himself a -- calling donald trump reprehensible, an idiot. this is a competitive primary here, but donald trump, if he is able to continue to convince individuals, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, but we're not even on his side then, that you are still welcome in this party, and you have a place here under a donald trump republican party, then it's not too late to be a part of that. i think that is what's so telling about his endorsement here today, but also, him continuing to travel around the country. >> vaughn hillyard, that is rally wall. thank you so much for your reporting. >> next, republicans wards are now targeting descent. florida just punished one of the states biggest attractions. can you guess who will pay the price? later, far-right is forced to explain herself on the stand. she tried dodging questions about the capitol riot, but let's just say lawyers did their homework. that and a whole lot more in the next hour. but first, let's check in with richard lui who's tracking the big stories here on msnbc. richard, what do you see? >> hey, maria teresa. the stories we're following this hour. new mexico is just working to control wind driven wildfires this weekend. can your drive force and grasslands are fueling planes, and not putting small villages and new mexico in the path of danger. this is all unfolding in the northern more rural portion of the state. cooler weather however is helping officials extinguish wild fires in neighboring arizona. and health officials in philadelphia today announcing indoor masking, no longer mandated, but recommended. mask requirements will be put in place april 11, as covid cases ticked up across fully. thankfully, triggerfish of say that expected spike in hospitalizations did not happen. more american voices right after this. claritin provides non-drowsy symptom relief from over 200 indoor and outdoor allergens, day after day. feel the clarity— and make today the most wonderful time of the year. live claritin clear. way day, wayfair's biggest sale of the year is bigger than ever! for two days only, april 27th and 28th, get the lowest prices on thousands of items for your home. shop outdoor furniture up to 65% off... rugs up to 80% off... and lighting up to 65% off... plus, get bonus savings with a wayfair credit card and free shipping on everything! shop way day, our biggest sale of the year. happening april 27th and 28th at wayfair.com. ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ ♪ ♪ i came, i saw, i conquered. (all): hail, caesar! pssst caesar! julius! dude, you should really check in with your team on ringcentral. i was thinking like... oh hi, caesar. we were just talking about you. ha ha ha. yeah, you should probably get out of here. not good. ♪ ♪ ♪ ringcentral ♪ (announcer) enough with the calorie counting, ♪ ♪ carb cutting, diet fatigue, and stress. just taking one golo release capsule with three balanced meals a day has been clinically proven to repair metabolism, optimize insulin levels, and balance the hormones that make weight loss easy. release works with your body, not against it, so you can put dieting behind you and go live your life. head to golo.com now to join the over 2 million people who have found the right way to lose weight >> reporter: dismantling and get healthier with golo. disney's self government, known as the reedy creek improvement district, comes at a cost. firefighters, ems, power and other government functions on the 40 square miles that include disney world are mostly paid by disney. >> it can be a financial fiasco for orange county residents. >> reporter: orange county tax collector, scott randolph, a democrat, says reedy creek now funds more than 100 million dollars in recurring costs, as well as a billion dollar then obligation. without reedy creek, the disney money stops. >> and so, where does the money comes from? >> taxpayers. >> yeah, it would have to come from tax payers, because the minute the reedy creek doesn't exist, that money doesn't exist. >> nbc's kara sanders there breaking down the cost to voters who are now stuck in the middle of florida's war on disney. governor ron desantis signed a bill on friday, dismantling disney world's self governing status. all because of the business's opposition of the state's so-called, don't say gay law. republicans are now showing their willingness to ditch the claim of being the pro business party, whatever it takes to win, i suppose. and that's not just the case in florida, but texas too. governor greg abbott told the people of his state last week that financial pain is necessary in order to secure the border. you remember abbott increasing border security, and inspections on trucks coming to the united states, which triggered massive, massive gridlock. abbott ultimately reversed course. abbots move found drug shipments and caught human traffickers, but it did cost texans, and you watching at home, more than four billion dollars, according to one economist. joining me now, msnbc political analyst, and host of the strange face bought cast, fernand amandi. and former political director for obama in florida, laurie watkins. fernand, i wanna ask you first of all, who knew that disney had its own taxe exempt status? can you talk a little bit about that? because that's pretty wild. >> well, it may be wild, maria teresa, but here in florida, everyone knows it. disney is the largest, private employer in our state, and employees about 80,000 people. and it's where the greatest economic development engine, and all of the country happens to be here based in florida. as you talked about in the onset, after declaring war on immigrants, war on women and choice, war on public education, war on the free media, now, ron desantis has decided to declare war on private industry, and in this case, war on disney, for the simple crime of disagreeing with the position of policy. and maria teresa, this isn't just an ominous development for the economic life of florida, and what it might mean to us in orange county in florida, where disney is based. this is ominous because this is a page out of the fascist dictators playbook, and you have republican lawmakers here, in what is supposedly a free state of florida, a free democracy, saying if you defy the governor, or any policy, whether you are a private citizen, or a private company, there will be prices to pay, an ominous, very disturbing development, where one has to ask the question, what's next? is desantis's maga goon squads gonna come at night, start breaking the glass in cinderella's castle? who knows what's to come? >> laurie, i just wanna pick up on that threat, because the irony is that all of this is happening in florida. florida was where biden's misinformation campaign really stuck to him, saying that he was a socialist, and they were trying to draw him it came to what happened in venezuela with medora, what happened in cuba, the list goes on. but in fact, what fernand is basically mentioning, and i think that is reasonable, is that the republicans seem to be more on autocratic, socialist messaging, and tendencies. but what they're doing right now with disney. how are floridians responding to this? >> greetings to your viewers, and thanks for having me on your program this evening. i think floridians are pretty upset about what's going on. they don't understand the culture war, and why their governor has decided to once again, you know, insert himself into these culture wars, and go after the private sector, go after businesses. and let me remind folks that this is not the first time between desantis has been, showing his true colors as anti business. he went after norwegian cruise lines as well. also a large employer, also a large tourism and economic driving engine for the state of florida. and he went after them, if you remember, about them wanting to mandate that people have vaccines, that they will be wearing masks. and he said, if we're gonna do that, then we're going to not allow you any longer to come into the state of florida to any of the ports. so this is more rhetoric of ron desantis being anti business. and also, being anti tourism. and the gop is, i don't know how they're going to pay the price, and this is something maybe we can get into, part of this bill signing that one desantis did. he signed these two woke bills, pieces of legislation that he calls them, to address woke culture. and he also signed against the reedy creek. also, what do you omitted from the signing ceremony that he later admitted that he signed, not in the sunshine, but we're supposed to have the florida sunshine law. he signed it in the dead of night, a redistricting bill. and this affects the lines, the redistricting lines, how lines are drawn in the state of florida, whether that is representative of those people that live in those areas, whether they're black, brown people of a bit disenfranchised for decades. i also want to mention, we will see what happens in this next year, period. this, i would call it a cooling off period, before june 1st of 2023. but we will see, how much money this needs to these gop members. just from 1996 until 2021, disney has invested $50 million in paying contributions. just to spring back around the taxpayers in florida, and how they feel about this, you should be scared, taxpayers, of florida. you should be very scared that the governor could come in and have a vindictive attitude to go after counties, where the average taxpayers will pay on average, this with this increase, maria teresa, will be between $2200 and $2800, that these people in this 40 square mile district, that encompasses two counties of orange county. you're gonna have an increase between $2200 and $2800 in their taxes. so i ask, how are these taxpayers going to pay for this, especially as the economy is, you know, having some struggles? people are struggling to pay for food and gas, and things like that. how are they going to -- bear the burden -- >> lori, i think what's really interesting and fernand, i just wanna come to very quickly. we have a couple of seconds. but basically, the two counties say that these taxes, maurice talking about, they went from biden 2020, despite winning that state, orange county 33% of the population is latina and more than half of the population in the other county. what does it say about who's gonna be paying the cost of desantis is deciding a revenge mechanism? >> it doesn't really clear, maria teresa, punisher enemies. that is the mantra. that is the message here, like you said. those two counties that one for biden are going to pay hundreds of millions, if not putting enough dollars in tax burden, if this goes through. the other thing i hope happens, marriott result, very quickly, i hope every ceo watching this program tonight, here's this call. they came for disney, and they're willing to come for disney, for defying the governor on an issue of contradicting policy, every other ceo and every company that does the same. now is the time this is to stand up for freedom and democracy in the quote, free state of florida. and defy this fascist move around desantis. >> if you went on with authoritarian looks like, you have it right now coming out of florida. thank you so much for joining us, fernand and lori. ahead, we'll see what happens when georgia congresswoman marjorie taylor greene was put on the stand and asked about her role in the capitol attack. let's just say, it didn't go over so well. first, the president of ukraine says two members of biden's cabinet are have been heading to kyiv. then he was coming just hours after the runoff of france's presidential election. and tomorrow, on jasmine or something, reports yasmin will talk with ukrainian firefighter, goes by the name, moon fish. that and more at 4 pm eastern, only on msnbc. you're pretty particular about keeping a healthy body. what goes on it... usually. ♪♪ in it... mostly. even what gets near your body. please please please take that outside. here to meet those high standards is the walgreens health and wellness brand. over 2000 products. rigorously tested. walgreens pharmacist recommended... and particularly kind to your wallet. ♪♪ ♪simply irresistible♪ ♪ ♪ ♪simply irresistible♪ applebee's irresist-a-bowls are back. now starting at $8.99. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. the sleep number 360® smart bed is on sale now. it senses your movements and automatically adjusts so you both stay comfortable all night. it's also temperature balancing so you stay cool. save $1,000 on our most >> ukraine's president popular smart bed. plus 0% interest for 36 months on all smart beds. ends monday. zelenskyy, announced today that u.s. secretary of state, anthony blinken and defense secretary lloyd austin will meet with him tomorrow. the pentagon they are declining to comment. but these two secretaries will be the highest level u.s. official to visit ukraine, since russia which this war. and, where putin's war goes next could also depend on the outcome of sunday's election for president in france? incumbent president emmanuel macron and far right report and marine le pen are in a runoff. macron holding a narrow lead, if bowling is correct. but should le pen when, there are worries putin's ukraine could get more brutal. she is a nationalist and a well-known putin synthesize, are bound to dismantle york's unified effort to rollback russian forces. joining me now, msnbc contributor, and executive editor of the news at the new yorker, they borrowed. thank you for joining me this evening, david. what does the implication of having le pen so close to the incumbent mean for france? >> it means that france has changed and it's changed in many ways that are similar to the united states. it's very divided between urban france and a view of europe and global war old. and then, rural france which is poor and feels left behind and is feeling frustrated. the pen has painted macron as a sort of liberal elitist. he's a conservative but sort of a wealthy person from paris who doesn't understand the suffering of average french. and to be honest, that echoes messages of other leaders like trump, who plays on the same resentment of the cities and says americans are being forgotten -- and i'm not comparing them, i want to be clear, here. vladimir putin uses the same message also. that he's sort of defending working class russians from globalists who are trying to weaken russia the brutality and war crimes committed by vladimir putin are completely different and far worse than anything the pen or donald trump has done. >> something that you highlight is that there seems to be a world order shift that seems to be happening. the president says this that in the 21st century we are facing a war between autocracy and democracy. what does the symbolism that le pen, if she were to be head of france, but would that mean for the world order? >> it's a victory, i think, i would say a nationalism that veers towards authoritarianism. she would pull france out of the joint command structure for nato, which is something that vladimir putin wants, and she has been tied to him in the past. lots of russian disinformation in france about how its being weakened. and it's that sort of pulling away from nato, from the european union, from international trade, and i think, you know, macron and frankly, the biden administration needs to address some of the frustrations and the economic disparity in the u.s. and rural areas to counter this message. but you're right, it's part of a global trend of sort of nationalists appealing, xenophobia, opposing immigration. this is what le pen has done as well. and sort of, demonizing people from other nations and urban elites. >> david, because you brought president biden, what he needs to do, and the vulnerabilities in the fault lines that we see around democracy, what would you counsel him to do on this moment? because oftentimes, when we talk about autocracy's wearing their ugly head, it's not in the united states, the one that oftentimes commands democracies around the world, and puts those other people in safe spaces in the box, autocratic boxes. what would be your counsel? >> to defend democracy in ukraine, and defend democracy in the united states. i think most americans fervently believe in democracy. i think the people that believe donald trump's big lie, i think they're really, you know, defending democracy. so it is -- the ukrainian people have a right to vote in elections, and they, you know, elected president zelenskyy, and they've talked about wanting to join europe and possibly nato. that's their right, and it's the right of americans to have fair elections, where the votes are counted. and there isn't violence that is used after an election to try to change the outcome, and i am very alarmed by the ability of conspiracy theories, whether it's in russia, or you know, france, united states, to convince people. it's the people who spread them, it's not the followers, so to speak, to kind of create this kind of resentment that could lead to violence, and it worries me that it could come to the united states. >> david, i think that is something that's not often talked about enough, how many people that stormed the capitol thought they were doing the right thing, because there were puppeteers dooping them? but at the end, there is a pathway to actually protect our democracy. david, thank you so much for that insight, and for joining me this evening. >> thank you. >> one of the far-right's favorite members of congress forced to owe her own words, at least the ones she could remember. a lesson in not what to do, when you're on the witness stand. next. later, forgiving student debt. advocates tell us the power hold, as one senator pushed democrats to make a main issue in the midterms. you're watching american voices. we'll be right back. we could bring it right to your door. with 1 to 2 day delivery from your local cvs. or same day if you need it sooner. but aren't you glad you can also just swing by to pick it up, and get your questions answered? because peace of mind is something you just can't get in a cardboard box. that's how healthier happens together with cvs. this is the sound of nature breathing. and this is the sound of better breathing. fasenra is a different kind of asthma medication. it's not a steroid or inhaler. fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it's one maintenance dose every 8 weeks. it helps prevent asthma attacks, improve breathing, and lower use of oral steroids. nearly 7 out of 10 adults with asthma may have elevated eosinophils. fasenra is designed to target and remove them. fasenra is not a rescue medication or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. this is the sound of fasenra. ask your doctor about fasenra. >> i don't remember. >> so you're not denying it, you're just saying you don't recall. >> i don't recall. i am not answering that question. i don't remember. i don't remember. i don't recall making that tweet. i don't know anything about this. never seen it before. >> georgia congresswoman marjorie taylor greene define simple questions about this january 6th riots and attempted coup. green is the first member of congress to testify under oath of the insurrection -- who wanted her booted from the ballot. the sides of provision which prohibits anyone, quote, engage in an insurrection for running for state offices. it's been used once in 1990, when a member in protest of the war was convicted of aiding foreign actor. during the hearing, attorneys used greene's own words against her asking her to respond to videos of herself saying, quote, this is our 1776 moment. >> what are you prepared for? >> in the words of many of my colleagues, as we were just stating together with our gop congress meeting this morning, this is our 1776 moment. >> you've never heard anyone say use the term 1776 as a code word for violence to occur on january six, 2021? >> no, absolutely not. >> not sure if i trust that. greene also brushed off -- calling pelosi a traitor. spoiler alert, it didn't go so well for her. >> in fact, you think that speaker pelosi is a traitor to the country. >> that's speculation, it's hypothetical. >> you have said that, haven't you, miss green, that she's a traitor to the country? >> i haven't said that. oh no, wait. hold on now. i believe by not upholding the securing the border, that violates her oath of office. >> so we are here talking -- melissa murray is back with me. we're gonna talk a little bit about treason. talk to me a little bit about -- because reading through the case, they're really trying to slice these words on the 15th amendment, and what i found very curious was there was a different type of penalty, so to speak, if we are talking about inciting a insurrection versus actually engaging in an insurrection. and it's the splitting of the words that it basically has the legal community trying to spin their wheels and figure out where is marjorie taylor greene on this landscape. can you break this down for us? >> well, i'm not sure there's such a big distinction. it's essentially the analog and ordinary criminal law would be the person who actually has done the crime and the individuals who have perhaps encouraged or aided, or get a the individual doing it. so the question here is not that marjorie taylor greene was engaged in the insurrection on january 6th, although i think there have been questions raised about whether or not she furnished information or were leading people through the capitol during that time. i think that's been refuted at this point. but the question was through her words, actions, and deeds on that day and prior to that day, did she incite the rebellion that occurred? and if she did, that would be varnishing a to it and, again, there would be liability for that under the constitution and it would be a violation of her oath of office. >> what are the repercussions? i can't imagine being in a place of work where my coworker, in this case marjorie taylor greene, telling a coworker that they wanted to have them killed in the case of nancy pelosi. are there any penalties for that kind of threat in the workplace? >> we've already seen some of those penalties. she's been stripped of her committee assignments. there are obviously more forceful penalties that could've been taken. again, in a polarized chamber, that was hard to do. but on a party line vote, she was stripped of her responsibilities on committees because of the statements that she had made charging harm against some of her colleagues in the democratic caucus. >> i guess one of the challenges in listening to these individuals, you have marjorie taylor greene, you have mike lee stating that we are not in a democracy. news flash everyone, we live in a democratic republic. so we are. what are the penalties of having so many people that are right now elected officials, stacking the deck against democracy? what moment are we living in right now, legally, in your opinion? >> i mean, it's really not a question oflaw, every lawyer says quite quickly that we are on the precipice of a democratic crisis if we are not already in it. i think these are dangerous, dangerous times. and this is dangerous rhetoric. one of the great things of being in a democracy is that we have protections under the first amendment. and that's the thing that individuals hide behind when they make statements like this. i was simply asserting my right to free speech, i wasn't intending to incite a rebellion or anything like that. i think with those remarks, senator lee tweeted on october 8th, 2020 of the election that democracy was not the goal, but prosperity and harmony were, i think those raise questions, but they are not necessarily criminal actions. i think those are things that we expect will be dealt with in the political process as opposed to the legal process. so the really the question goes to senator lee's constituency, is this the person you want representing you in a democracy? someone who apparently doesn't believe in it at all? >> melissa, this whole show has been about how things are not right and we are living in dangerous times, but it's in an effort to sound the alarm. thank you so much for spending some time with us this evening. >> thank you. >> next, could forgiving student loan debt help democrats win the midterms? you will hear advocates of the power of financial independence especially women of color, after this break. we'll be back. what happens when performance... meets power? you try crazy things... ...because you're crazy... ...and you like it. you get bigger... ...badder... ...faster. ♪ you can never have too much of a good thing... and power is a very good thing. ♪ wayday! wayfair's biggest sale of the year is bigger than ever. for two days only, april 27th and 28th. save on all the upgrades you need to refresh your space your way. that's why we carry a large selection of kitchen faucets. so that your little update can make a big difference. wayfair has all the easy upgrades. from cabinet hardware to peel and stick tile. and with the lowest prices of the year on everything from bathtubs to vanities. even your big projects are no big deal. ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪ this is vuity™, the first and only fda approved eye-drop that improves age-related blurry near vision. wait, what? 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>> i think the biggest significance is that we are in a point where a certain -- we are in a point where the democratic voter base is being disenfranchised financially, and it's also a civil rights issue. so we're looking at a situation that should be affected, people of color, particularly the black community. and we're looking at a situation where america has a long history of forgiving student loan debt, excuse me, a forgiving debt for corporations and had funds. so i think it's a chance to treat every american the way that america has always treated corporations. >> olivia, you are part of a conversation, and g g l is alluding to this. you're part of a conversation that we had with senator schumer. and that conversation, it was revealed that in the late 1990s, corporations were allowed to declare bankruptcy for bad decision. however, students were not allowed to declare bankruptcy for trying to improve their status and themselves, even though they were targets of predatory lending. what do you say to that? >> i think that that's very indicative of the fact that the american hire education system, in its current state, is broken. college students are the future of this country. they're gonna be the ones leading the charge. and so, i think that the biden administration has actually taken important steps to address the student crisis, certainly in the right direction, having forgiven the debt that they have. but i think it's really important to point out that reforming education system, as it is, it is not just a spread. they're wasting student debt is just that. this is a marathon, and we have to take much bolder action to ensure that we are ensuring the future of our country. and that starts with the biden office working closely with it's the department of education, who will do things like, free community college, and other ways to make college more affordable and accessible for americans. and i think this is a real opportunity for president biden to make a stand, not only on the future of this country, but his legacy as a president, showing that he cares about young people, he cares about people who have been disenfranchised, and who have been manipulated, or taken advantage of by predatory lending practices. and some of these, the future of this country, at the blue and you are gonna be leading it, or currently in college. >> i want to ask you, because oftentimes, i say that women start off in the workforce, usually earning less than men. and if you start talking about letting us, that's even half $1. however, the promise that we note that one sign for student loan doesn't know gender. so right out of the bat, women are earning less than men, and this is one way to close that gap. the wage gap that we talked about so often. what's significance with into, if president biden decided to forgive the $10,000 in student loans, that he promised on his campaign trail? what with that two for young voters? >> you know, the student loan that the cities are facing today, it significantly different from that 20 years ago. especially for communities of color. we face more challenges in paying these loans back and preventing them, prevent them from, prevent us from creating generational wealth for our families, and achieving equitable future for ourselves and our community. and college education is outpacing the students ability to pay, and now, 1. 7 plus dollars with a student loan debt, that the federal government is holding. and if we, if there is some sort of student, some type of student loan forgiveness, for communities of colors especially, we would be able to -- we would be able to basically help our economy, and this is that to be able to contribute to the economy, much, much better. it would be, there will be the best interest for americans. it would benefit us all. those prices, it would help us great work attributions to the economy. there will be more homeowners, more americans living out the american dream. there will be more americans starting families. we would have more innovation, and women are very important in terms of leading the workforce, and so, i think that's why, we need to make sure that we allow women to be able to have a student loan forgiveness, so that future generations can succeed, and make this country stronger. we can have an equitable future. and we can close up the wealth gap, and racial gap, and strive for generational wealth being. >> i wouldn't get that front, because folks don't really realize that the sooner that we're talking about is 1. 3 trillion dollars, on a good day. so someone coming out of college right now, on average, has a straddle to $50,000. and by the time they're in their mid 30s, they still haven't paid the hold it off, which prevents them from buying that first home. adulting, as people like to call it, right? so talk to me a little bit about what would happen differently with a group that you organize, with would there be an enthusiasm to go out and vote for joe biden? and i asked this, because in 2018 and 2020, where young people, for the very first time, started eclipsing the participation every time in history. and we look at the generation that's the largest group to vote, it's young people. what's gonna get them to the polls? would this do it? >> i think it would certainly help. i think that a lot of young people were very impassioned, and very motivated to go out and vote for jordan biden, because i think the promises he made on the campaign trail, including reducing student debt. like i said before, this is a very long term issue that we have to work to resolve, and so, i think setting forward the process to ensure that these kinds of issues are not passed on to the next generations of americans, and it would certainly motivate people. but it would also, you know, allow president biden to take a stand on what he thinks is an important issue in this country. so i definitely think, it is something that we should all be paying attention to. and i kind of think that senator warren is right in the sense. >> thank you so much for that conversation. olivia, gina and marivette, thank you so much. we'll be right back. 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