these attacks come after the mosque va which was russia's flagship in the black sea. it's the largest boat to sink in decades and pentagon officials confirmed yesterday that it was hit by two ukrainian neptune missiles earlier in the week that caused fires and damaged the boat. it's another remarkable loss for russia's military as it continues to deal with low morale while preparing on renewed offensive focused on taking control of eastern ukraine. two senior u.s. defense officials are set to begin that offensive in the next few days. they say russia can start moving back troops into ukraine as soon as this weekend before all of its troops are fully engaged and ready to fight. russian forces have suffered significant losses in ukraine after 52 days of war. according to president zelenskyy, up to 20,000 russian soldiers have been killed in ukraine compared to 2,000 ukrainian soldier losses. nbc news has not independently verified those losses. they've recovered the bodies of 900 civilians so far in the town of kyiv. more than 350 of them from the town of bucha. police say many of them were shot and simply executed. nbc's foreign correspondent raf sanchez joins me now from lviv in eastern ukraine. an attempted missile strike this morning as well as explosions on the outskirts of kyiv. what can you tell us about what's happening out there. >> it's very unusual for there to be strikes this far west. we actually heard the air raid sirens at 5:00 a.m. this morning. the sirens go off a lot in the city. the locals don't seem to notice, but in the early hours this morning it was not a false alarm. as outside, the local government said russian attack just flying over the city trying to attack targets here and there is a strict military censorship rule in place. the local governor confirming that these attacks took place and not clear exactly what the russians were going after. in kyiv, was there an attack on the outskirts of the city and this was the second one in 48 hours and the mayor saying one person has been killed and this is really shattering the sense of calm in the capital. last two weeks things have been relatively quiet there. president zelenskyy has been able to help foreign leaders like prime minister boris johnson and life to a certain extent has been continuing as normal. now russian bombs, russian missiles and raining down all across this country and the russian defense minister saying it's in response to ukrainian attacks inside russian territory. ukraine not commenting on that, but a lot of people here suspect this is really russian retaliation for the sinking of the moskva war ship and it is not saying how many sailors have died in that singering. there is nowhere in ukraine that is out of range of its missiles. maria teresa? >> i want to follow up on that. do we know of mats? there were roughly 450 sailors on that ship. do we know anything about what's happening to that crew, and i ask because right after, if you recall several years ago there was that terrible submarine accident of russian sailors that were sadly, left to die and the russian people did not know the extent of that and so my question to you is there any understanding of what may have happened to that crew? >> so russia has been anything but transparent with its own people over the course of the war. they have not been giving them any up dates at all on how many service members have been killed in vladimir putin's war so far. western analysts think they're probably way too low. u.s. officials say the russians do appear to have moved some of the crew off of the moskva that were sailing in formation. we don't know it's a crew roughly 500 or so. we don't know how many of them made it safely and even if you take the russian account which is the ammunition storage on the ship started blowing up, causing a massive, and ultimately fatal fire in tight compartments and narrow hallways. i've spent time on war ships and if ammunition are blowing up, you can expect real carnage. the russian people do not know. there have been memorial services in russia for a number of service members who they know are dead even if they don't know how many. maria teresa? >> incredible reporting, raf, thank you very much. stay safe, life from lviv in ukraine. we appreciate it. joining me now is russian pro-democracy leader gary kersov, and founder and chairman of the renewed democracy initiative. he's the author of winter's coming and why vladimir putin must be stopped. thank you for taking time with me today. having this conversation earlier, i've been struck by how you have been sounding the alarm on putin for so long, ask recently we saw that bill browder came out with the book talking about the atrocities that he has been doing in the world, not just recently, but for the last 20 years. what do you say right now as we're going to the next phase of the war that the americans and the rest of the global community can do? because you keep saying sanctions are too little too late. what else can be done, gary? >> i don't say sanctions are too little too late, and i would like to see more, but right now we're in a situation where it's not as bad as it looked seven weeks ago when putin started a new phase of his aggression. before we decide on tactical response, as a chess player, we have to define our strategy and we have to understand, as long as putin is in power there will be no ukraine. ukraine must be destroyed, vladimir putin has been repeating it for years. he's been bombarding russians about statements like naziism in ukraine and threat to mother russia and all nonsense that created this sense of urgency for russia to attack ukraine and to destroy its statehood. now they use terror, it's a campaign of terror typical to putin trying to bombard people into submission and this is a policy of scorched earth and the fact that the new head man in ukraine known as the butcher of syria, the man who authorized the use of chemical weapons in syria and carpet bombed aleppo and other strong holds, so that's an indication what kind of war they're going to launch on ukraine not only in the east, but across country and we have to make our strategic goal simple and straightforward. ukraine must win and whatever we -- every resource and every weapon we can supply to ukraine, we have to provide them. >> gary, i think what you're saying is ukraine must win to ensure that we have a safe world order. i want to talk about your friend that was recently apprehended in russia. basically, vladimir appeared on ali velshi last week, and this is something that he said on the air. take a listen, please. >> the opposition to vladimir putin's regime. if you're asking about me, i'm a russian politician, russia is my country, russia is my home and this is where i have to be. >> he was speaking directly to the russian people in direct response to what you're saying, gary, that russia and putin in particular are so good at and that is the wave of disinformation where the russians don't know what the level of atrocities are happening in ukraine and still many believe from what we understand from reporting that this is, that ukraine in some cases might be the aggressor. how are you feeling right now about your friend's situation and what can we expect? >> look, there are many, many like vladimir who are suffering in russia like alexy navalny locked in a prison for years. we don't know if his arrest or his imprisonment was just get out of the country before it's too late or they will start a criminal procedure at the end of these two weeks' imprisonment. i hope for the former and i hope you have a chance to leave russia and we can continue our fight from afar, because i have no doubts that the regime will not stop short of silencing anyone as critical as vladimir. >> want to bring to your attention, you often cite may 9th as a date many people have been talking about russia's renewed effort in eastern ukraine. what's the significance of may 9th? >> it's difficult for people in the free world to understand that stalin didn't want to celebrate v-day on may 8th because that was the triumph, as he saw, the triumph of the anglo-american troops. so that's why in russia we celebrate it may 9th, that was the special ceremony organized only for stalin with capitalization of german forces. putin, as a dictator, he loves these kind of dates and that's why i think russian troops now are just being called and they have to deliver by may 9th. putin wants to look like stalin, to be a winner, to have a triumph and destroy what he called the nazis, the regime in kyiv. so that's why failure to win this war by may 9th may be very symbolic and it may be the beginning of the collapse of putin's dictatorship. >> can i ask you a follow-up question on that collapse? one of the people they've been going after are the oligarchs. do the oligarchs have power to influence putin in any way? >> i doubt very much that now they have any power. we burned too many bridges and crossed too many main lines and they still can do a lot. they have a lot of money and they pocket a lot of money that can and must be used to help ukraine and the fact that they're still silent probably sends the wrong message to russia. the world can do more by forcing them to speak out and condemning the putin regime and taking a side in this war. it's like chess, it's black and white. you cannot pretend that you're sitting on the fence, but i would not expect them to be in a position to remove putin from power though they still have kecks and secure in other agencies in russia, and if they take a stand and use their influence for financial resources and we see the moment of the collapse of the putin regime might be closing. >> gary, thank you so much, chairman of the rights foundation you have been sounding the alarm and i think you're right. you can have all of the money in the world, but if you don't have backbone, what good is it? thank you very much. coming up, a new series of text messages between trump allies reveal gop complicit in the big lie and right after the break, russian president vladimir putin's brutal invasion of ukraine may be the most flagrant attack of democracy on the world stage right now and it is far from the only one. that's ahead. you are watching "ali velshi" on msnbc. i velshi" on msnbc. and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, like asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee. yeah i should've just led with that. with at&t business. you can pick the best plan for each employee and get the best deals on every smart phone. coverage of vladimir putin's reprehensible invasion of ukraine it's been profoundly moving to hear the voices of ukrainian citizens who have risen to the occasion with honor and with profound courage. in interview after interview ordinary ukrainians have spoken out not just about the commitment to protecting themselves and their families and their willingness to put themselves in harm's way to defend their country. this is a fight not just about material safety or well-being, but about something deeper and more important, a nation that fundamentally belongs to the citizens who live in it. it's a fight about democracy ask that's a fight americans care about, too. the russian attack on ukraine is a nightmare scenario for democracy, but an authoritarian invasion is hardly the only way democracies can die. let's be clear. they can also be destroyed from within and it's distressingly easy to point out examples of democratic backsliding around the world, hungary, poland, brazil, venezuela. it's been more distressing to realize that the united states might soon have a place on that list if ordinary citizens like us don't take our charge to vote seriously. over the last several years we've all been watching a slow motion attack on american democracy unfold in real time, whether it's birtherism or the big lie or stacking the deck against fellow citizens trying to cast a ballot. the goal is the same, and that's to undermine the institution of inclusive democracy and build a base that violence, not voting, is the way to enact political change. make no mistake. there's miles of difference between ukrainians who are putting themselves in physical danger to defend their country from authoritarianism and americans standing up here at home. i hope americans who are moved and inspired by the bravery they're seeing in ukrainians understand that there's a way that they, too, can stand up to creepy, authoritarianism here at home. participation is the lifeblood of the democratic process. that doesn't just mean voting in election, even off-year elections, and it means organizing knocking on doors and running for office and donating. it means showing up at the protests when our democratic norms are violated. after all, if tens of thousands of russians can stand up it a regime that violently represses dissent, we can do it after we're burned out after four years of donald trump. after the shock of 2016, citizens got to work reorganizing, reaping and repairing our democracy, a rising multicultural america flooded the polls on levels not seen in a century using balance to push back on the reckless attempts on our country and institutions. we have organized, out volunteered and out marched and ran for office in thousands and thousands of record numbers and the hard truth about democracy is that any relationship worth its salt, it needs love and attention. even after four hard years, especially after four hard years the only path forward is to redouble our efforts to make sure that our systems stay in power and that they don't continue rigging that system. all across country, republicans are laurining unprecedented attacks on voting rights on agency and our bodies. it's about minority control over a plural, diverse, rich america. the stakes couldn't be higher. we can't lose our democracy whose deepest promise has yet to be fulfilled. i believe in democracy and i'm frustrated and i'm tired of conversations with disillusioned americans who believe all is lost, who are sick and tired of fighting and are wondering to pack in. their disillusionment comes from a place of privilege. i take this seriously, the ancestors that we are today for our children will be defined by the fight we're in right now. i refuse to leave my children fewer rights than i have today. so when i see school teachers and bus drivers standing in line to join it is ukrainian defense forces and there's a glimmer of recognition. i know how much they love their country because i know how much i love mine. ours in america is a heck of a lot easier. we have to defend our democracy from those who threat tone take it from us. the good news is that collectively, using our best talent, we know how to win and forge ahead. , we know how to wid forge ahead. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ maybe it's 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continue to watch the events unfolding in ukraine, one thing has truly struck me, beyond the sheer determination, an organization of the ukrainian people as a whole, in many cases ukraine's women have been at the forefront of this crisis. even though the country's current military enlistment doesn't require them to stay and fight. women and children are allowed to leave ukraine to escape the war, no questions asked and yet every week, every day we are hearing stories of strength, stories about all of the many women of ukraine who stayed to be a part of the resistance despite knowing that it could be more dangerous to stay. we are learning of the mothers and wives who left country to drop their children off to safety only to return right back around to be part of ukraine's fight for independence. joining me now is one such woman who decided to stay and resist, kira rudyk and a member of the political party. thank you very much for joining me this morning, kira. i want to ask you, one of the things you mentioned earlier is that you had, and i quote, that you have a resistance team of 30 people and your house had become basically similar to the barracks, training to fight and it gives you a sense of control and power. can you talk about that situation? is it still happening in your home? >> thank you very much for having me. well, right now on the day, 52 of the war we are much more organized than the last couple of weeks and people are not only here at my home. they are living with the ukrainian army and they are a part of the different resistance team, but at the very beginning, we did gather here anding for the first 50 days we were training here like a resistance team two hours a day. we were training to bear arms, to shoot, to fire. we did some tactical trainings so that we will be the most useful to other country in all of the possible ways, and for me, personally, it was so extremely important that if the russians would come here to kyiv i would be able to resist. it would be not an easy fight for them and i will be a part of making it not an easy fight for them, and you know, when we went to bucha and borodianka after the russians left and after we pushed them, and i have talked to the women who were raped, to the women who were assaulted, i was thinking that we need to arm as many people as possible. so it wouldn't be happening to other people again. you know, for russian, we are not fighting our army right now. they are avoiding the direct fight. they are fighting the civilians so the goal will be, so there will be less civilians here and more armed people who are saying, no, you're coming to our land and we are greeting you with a bullet. you are coming to our land and we are greeting you with our resistance and you are coming to our land and we will be protecting ourselves and the ones we love. >> kira, you have incredible sense. i started following you on twitter 52 days ago. how have you seen the war evolve? and i want to follow up, how are you continuing with your strength and wherewithal? >> in the beginning the war was very emotional and it was callous. you were thinking, okay, what i can do -- what the people around me can do to be the most useful to the mother land? right now it's much more organized and it is more on when i can improve the processes so the whole country will be united and will work seamlessly ask work as one and there are two things that are driving me. . first one is rage because every single time i hear about the atrocities of russians i am seeing that this will not be forgiven and this is why i chose to go to bucha and borodianka and talk to the people and another thing that is driving is love because i'm looking for all ukrainians to come back. i'm looking forward for us to rebuild the country and i look forward to do it after we can win the war and i see how we can win it, with the war, support is so possible and it is actually something that we can do. watch us how bravely we fight and watch how well we are doing and how professional our military, look at us sinking the ship moskva. how is it even possible? no one could believe it, but we have done this. if we have enough weapons and enough support and the world unites around us we can win it. >> kira rudyk, i want to thank you for your strength. everyone talks about zelenskyy and what are a parliamentarian group you all are and you are the face of an incredible, strong democracy and please stay safe. thank you for your fight and for your love. thank you for joining me. >> thank you and glory to ukraine. >> glory to ukraine. be well. coming up, comfort food, literally. chef jose andres and world central kitchen have been feeding since the beginning. i want to make note of someone who made history. alyssa nakken became first woman to coach on the field of a regular season game. there she is with her blond braid, the 31 subbed for san francisco giants first-base coach who was ejected against the san diego padres. she normally serves as assistant coach in the dugout. on the moment, she said, quote, somebody needed to go out. our first base coach got thrown out. i've been in training as first base coach for at least a few years so i stepped into what i've been hired to do which is to support the team and staff. in a celebratory moment, eric kosser in shook her hand and the coach who congratulated her after the inning when she returned to the dugout. nakken's team may have won 13-2 after san diego. just ask her. it's a big deal and i feel it's my job to honor those who helped me get to where i am. as a young girl watching the san francisco giants with my father from up there he was watching and he couldn't have been prouder. thank you so much. we'll be right back. much. we'll be right back. you try crazy things... ...because you're crazy... ...and you like it. you get bigger... ...badder... ...faster. ♪ you can never have too much of a good thing... and power is a very good thing. ♪ i always say that representation matters. a new bill introduced on capitol hill this week would grant $150 million to address the enduring gap in college attendance and graduation rates among latino students. the hear app, congressman joaquin cast officer texas is a five-year grant program aimed at school districts aimed at colleges with a high enrollment of latino students across the nation. the grants would be used to create and foster institutional practices to prepare students for higher education. this support includes through academic objectives like the tricky college application process, including addressing non-academic needs that affect college enrollment. senator padilla and congressman castro understands the importance of a college degree and the obstacles that first-generation americans often face in earning one. for perspective, in california, home to the largest latino population in the country, just 20% of latino adults ages 25 and older have earned an associate degree or higher compared to 54% of white adults in that same age group. as we, merge from this pandemic with latin on children lagging two years behind their peers. just as importantly, while the common age of whites is 58 years old, the common age of latinos and wait for it, sitting down, is 11 years old. this bill, while aimed to support latinos is about investing in america's collective future you are. they are said to have bipartisan support and hopefully it can inspire others just like it. now it just needs to pass. coming up, the world food program estimates that some 60% of ukrainians are worried about finding enough to eat. it's a staggering statistic. chef jose andres and world central kitchen have been on the front lines feeding as many people as he can since start of the invasion. he will join us next. of the invasion he will join us next we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come 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(brad) baby names! for a boy, brad. for a girl, brad. apartments-dot-com. the most popular place to find a place. more than 11.2 million people have been displaced from their homes in ukraine since russia began its invasion in late february. over 4.7 million have fled to the now war-torn nation, millions more remain in the country. to make matters worse the invasion posses significant threats to their health with minimal access to critical resources like medicine, water and food. another daunting statistic, the executive director of the world food program says that 60% of those displaced across ukraine are worried about finding enough to eat as reported by "the new york times." that's why my next guest chef jose andres, an activist and humanitarian, someone i call my friend and perhaps his most important role, he's the founder of the world central kitchen. he has provided over 10 million meals to communities in and outside of ukraine since the war began 52 days ago. it has set up at over 41 border crossings and 52 distribution sites in the region. i am joined by the man himself, jose andres and founder and chief feeding officer in world central kitchen and he is life in ukraine. thank you very much for joining us. i would love to get your perspective of what you are seeing now 52 days in. >> well, i am right now in chernihiv in one of the many neighborhoods that they are in need of food for different reasons. this country is at war. for obvious reasons many people are not with work or they're not receiving their paychecks. today i went in the morning early to check some supermarkets and they were, let's say, 20% full and people would barely buy for the day or two because money is scarce. some markets are closed and you can see impromptu markets in the streets sometimes that the food goes very quickly. we need to understand that in chernihiv, they arrive for the first time after the war began. yesterday it was kind of a very big day. so all these cities that they've been in finally eliminated, they are having the usual issues of making the economy go back to normal. ukraine is in the war and everything takes longer and that's why in the world central kitchen, we're seeing more than 70 cities, delivering food and also packages like the people you have here waiting and i don't know, more than 2,000 packages for a family of four to have three or four day and we went to one of our partners to get the 50 or 60 bags to make sure people can go back to their homes and the least we can do is to make sure people can have some food to keep feeding their families. so this is the situation. the banks don't have enough money and you see long lines in the banks for people who have access to money and if they have money in the bank and there are different circumstances why people would have a hard time accessing food. >> jose, i want to ask you something. you are usually on the ground for natural disasters. they oftentimes have a finite start and a finite ending. how are you able to support the efforts when war may be indefinite? how are you managing that and how is this different from the natural disasters that you've been able to support and lend a hand? >> in the hurricanes and in the fires and once everything stops there's hope that every day things get better. here, we saw a few hours ago one of our kitchen partners, a missile struck right on the building where we had four wounded team members in kharkiv. this is the situation, you never know when -- when some of the places you are feeding, people waiting for bread, people in a school -- you don't know when the next bomb or missile is going to arrive. this makes everything very complicated. how do we finance what we do? the american people, we have done on the wall -- i don't know the numbers because quite frankly i don't dedicate myself to that, i'm only trying to feed people. much of the support comes from the american people and i want to thank everyone that has ever supported world central kitchen. we spend the money before we even have it. right now we are doing more than 300+ million meals a day. we buy local to support the local economies and we don't wait one second promising that something will happen in the future, we deliver when people need it which is the urgency of now is yesterday and that's what the minute of world central kitchen and thousands of volunteers and that's what we are committed to do. i want to thank the people for always being there not for u but in this case the ukrainian people. >> you were able to get into operation immediately and you are able to make the most maximum impact, and you've had criticism from the international response rate. what can the international community do differently that you do so well? >> we are a very small organization and we are not in every place in the world. the big organizations, they have projects in many countries and i'm not going to lie to you, the men and women of the very big organizations they only deserve my respect and my thank you because i know they are there in countries that we are not even hearing on the news taking care of the people. all those people are heroes. been thing is real, it's a lot of red tape. sometimes the big organizations become so big that even people with good intentions and even the new leaders seems like sometimes they don't even know how to start articulating the response. in our case, it is very simple. we bring food to the hungry and we bring water to the thirsty. our mission is precise. why we weren't there in bucha hrs of being liberated north of irpin in the outskirts of kyiv? because we are quick, we are fast and we are ready and when you are quick, fast and ready and the mission is clear, success is highly achievable. we know that we can do more with less. i do believe in the 21st century right now it's going to have to be the moment to the big organizations in the world to have a clear understanding what are their roles, what are they promising? how they are spending the money, the govern notes and the donors give them and to make the return on investment on every dollar is clear. if you're taking care of children, we need to be next to the children. if you're supposed to be feeding entire countries during famine, we need to make sure that that happens, but always having in mind the urgency of now is yesterday. we are nimble. we are small. i hope we are going to be learning how in the years to come as we respond to more crisis, that we will learn in a humble way, we will learn from our mistakes, and this is clear. whenever there is a fight for hungry people and we will be there and that's what we try to do and no red tape and no b.s. and no meetings and no claim that one day in the future we will do something. being with the boots on the ground right now next to the ukrainian people and that's in the way that we can be responding to the many problems that we face. you know what i will say world central kitchen is the biggest organization in the world and yes, i may sound pretentious about it, every restaurant, every food warehouse and every cook and every person that loves to feed is a part of our network. there, it's a crisis and the men and women of the food business, of the restaurants, of the world and of the farming of the world. they always unite around one simple idea. sometimes a plate of food is the beginning of a better tomorrow. >> it's also the beginning of conversation, and i think we need more of that. josethat. jose andres, sending you love. if you'll like to contribute -- and bombshell text messages reveal more about what the failed -- were doing and how they truly feel about the democracy i have this nation. we'll be right back. out the democracy i have this nation we'll be right back. st ask your. we search for savings for you. from coupons to lower costs options. plus, earn up to $50 extra bucks rewards each year just for filling at cvs pharmacy. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ to help prevent bleeding gums, try saying hello gumwash with parodontax active gum health. it kills 99% of plaque bacteria and forms an antibacterial shield. try parodontax active gum health mouthwash. (cto) ♪ i want the world ♪ (production manager) ♪ i want the whole world ♪ (supervisor) ♪ i want to lock it all up in my pocket. ♪ (ceo) ♪ i want today. ♪ ♪ i want tomorrow. ♪ (warehouse worker) ♪ presents and prizes and sweets and surprises... ♪ (driver) ♪ of all shapes and sizes. ♪ (dispatch) ♪ i want it noooooow! ♪ (vo) t-mobile for business has 5g that's ready right now. as the january 6th committee investigation into the deadly attack on the nation's capital presses on, a damning series of previously unreleased text messages reveal how two of the ex-president's staunchest allies look to be in favor of pushing the big lie, before ultimately backtracking. the texts were first reported by cnn and have not yet been reviewed by nbc news. short mike lee and congressman chip roy exchanged text messages with then chief of staff mark meldos. senator lee pledged unequivocal support for you to exhaust every legal and constitutional -- that same day representative roy wrote, we need ammo, we need fraud examples, we need it this weekend. it seems bick december, however, the two lawmakers began to realize they may have made a mistake in trying to upend democracy and overturn the will of the people. on new year's eve, roy warned, the president should call everyone off. if we substitute the will of the state with a vote by congress every four years, we have destroyed the electoral college, quote. the end, next day, he added po -- lee argued this would end badly for the president unless we have the constitution on our side and unless they states have new stye electors pursuant to state law. we do not. in the end both men voted to certify president biden's win, but these texts detail how explicit they were in pushing the lie. chip roy, in response, wrote -- been off social media this good friday, but apparently there's quite a stir. i'll say this once, no apologies to my pride texts. i stand behind seeking truth, funding nonsense, then acting in defense of the constitution. a spokesman for senator lee confirmed the authenticity and told "new york times" those messages tell the same story that he told from the floor of the senate, the day he voted to -- mark meadows has, the commit yes has been very busy gathering testimony from some of trump's closest allies. stephen miller on thursday testified for roughly eight hours about whether the president failed to encourage the supporters to storm the capitol on january 6th. the select committee is expected to begin closing -- the question now is, whether to call trump, but how to actually call him to testify. joining me is a nationality correspondent for politico. betsy, thank you so much. i'm so excited to have you on to close the show. you've such an expert on this. i want to talk about something i found curious. we have these two members basically voting to certify the election, we saw that they actually had a hand in pushing the big lie, yet when it was up to them, up close and personal, they decided not to impeach donald trump for the attempted coup that they signaled. can you talk a bit about that? >> one thing these text messages, which neither dispute, signal they had both of their stomachs dropped at the now infamous press conference that sydney powell and her allies, including rudy giuliani had at the rnc in late december. that was just a uniquely, perhaps historically, disastrous moment for the republican party as a whole. some of the crazier conspiracy theories that we have ever heard shared in american public life were broadcast from gop headquarters that day. of course, the impact it seemed to have both publicly and privately in some of these cases was pretty similar of these lawmakers signaling to meadows, that they thought it was not a great moment. meadows signaled he also did not find it to be a great moment. it just shows no matter how -- no matter what type of opinions you have regarding the 2020 election, the community of people who watched that particular episode, thought it was totally bonkers was perhaps larger than they might have even realized at the time. >> so is it going to break through to the american people that still believe that trump won the election? ethough we're hearing from two of the staunchest supporters that what he was trying to do was against the constitution? will this change any individuals' minds? >> i don't think so. i think for the people who believe that trump actually won in 2020, i think the ship has kind of sailed. i don't think there's many folks trying to figure out what mike lee and chip roy's opinions on, but it's notable that they were both part of the community of conservative lawmakers who, prior to trump, really presented themselves as a st. eschewing close to the constitution, focused on constitutional law, legal norms, rule of law in this country. chip roy was the chief of staff to ted cruz. ted cruz became most favorite of his role in a government shutdown in 2013 as part of the implementation of afford kabul care act. mike lee is the member of the senate judiciary, who talks a lot about constitutional issues and defending rule of law and the traditional approach to governance. that school of thought, that basket of rhetoric was essentially tossed totally out the window when the republican party became the party of trump. it's not the way you hear trump talk about politics. it's not the way you hear him talk about lawmaking. there was a huge shift, no longer the party of lee, roy and cruz, but the party of trump now. betsy woodruff swann, thank you. enjoy your saturday. >> thanks so much. thank you for share your saturday with me. i'll be back tomorrow filling in for the one and only ali velshi, but the news isn't done just yet. "the cross connection with tiffany cross" starts right now. thanks for joining me. >> good saturday morning. welcome to the cross connection. i'm coming to you from los angeles this morning. as usual we have a lot to covering, including the latest police shooting in grand rapids, michigan. but we do begin this morning in ukraine, where vladimir putin's brutal and illegal war stretches into day 52, with many analysts say the worse of the assault may be yet to come