Transcripts For MSNBC Morning Joe 20240708 : comparemela.com

and conservative attorney george conway. we will be getting to his recent column nor "the washington post" entitled "the supreme court's order against donald trump is even worse for him than it appears." but first, joe, even i know we will be talking football first. you all look so tired. >> and we should be talking football first. it was the most extraordinary weekend of football, mike barnicle, that i think any of us have seen. i think by the end of last night everybody agrees that in all of the history of nfl playoff games, back-to-back nights starting with lambeau -- actually, starting with the bengals' game but then that all-time classic from another century, the '9ers and green bay, zero degree weather, snow. the '9ers figure out a way to come back. and then brady finds a way to come back, but unfortunately he can't play all 11 positions on the field. then last night there are no words. four touchdowns in two minutes. patrick mahomes drives the chiefs 75 yards in 13 seconds, or at least to field goal position in 13 seconds. nothing like it. you can't even describe it adequately. just an unbelievable few days. >> joe, as you know, i am a baseball guy. i love baseball, but i feel so badly for major league baseball and every other professional sport in the wake of what we witnessed as a nation this weekend. it was the greatest weekend of playoff football in history i believe. in thinking growing up that the greatest football game i ever saw, and it was on a little black and white tv when i was just a little kid, was the giants and the baltimore colts, and i love the new york football giants, crashing into the end zone in sudden death to win that football game. that pales in comparison to what we saw last night with kansas city versus the buffalo bills. it was the most unbelievable, incredible, mind boggling game i have ever seen in any sport. and to cap off a weekend of playoff football, it was beyond belief what we were watching. i come away with two conclusions. one, it was, indeed, the greatest football game i have ever seen. two, the national football league has to change their overtime rules. to have josh allen sitting on the bench watching the conclusion of his season without getting his hands on the ball, they have to fix that. >> yeah, one of the great quarterback performances in playoff history, too, josh allen. i don't know if i have ever seen anybody more in control of a game, whether he was running, whether he was rolling to his left, throwing to his right across his body, flicking the ball 40 yards with his wrist. just an extraordinary job. i will say we have talked about josh allen, patrick mahomes, you can talk about san francisco. >> incredible. >> you know, jonathan lemire, you know, i have stopped watching the nfl. i hadn't watched for, you know, the better part of a decade until maybe the super bowls. i stopped enjoying the game, but i will tell you the new players here that have just been extraordinary, i started watching with jack about three regular season games out before the playoffs. this really does, i mean this weekend i wonder -- i mean nfl is not hurting anyway, but i wonder if it brings some people back who have been away, much like those lakers/celtic showdowns in the 1980s because we have bigger-than-life stars that will be around for a while. >> tremendous quarterbacks on displace, josh allen, patrick mahomes, joe burrow, and to mike's point it happens to major league baseball lockout, every other sport comparing in comparison to the nfl which had seen ratings tick back up after declining for a couple of years. joe, let's go through it and start with the last game. an incredible finish to the final game of the playoff weekend. patrick mahomes, here he is in overtime after josh allen never got the ball because he called tails rather than heads. touchdown. kansas city chiefs win, 42-36 over the bills. the two teams combining for, get this, an nfl record 25 points in the final two minutes of regulation. the bills seemed to have the game won, scoring right there with 13 seconds left in the fourth quarter. josh am len throws a strike, but they kick the ball into the end zone, the touch back. they could have run the clock a little bit. that gave ma home time for two plays. in those two plays he got the chiefs in field goal position. 49 yards. ties the game then we are seeing the overtime winner again. just simply a heartbreaking loss for the bills, a franchise that has never won a super bowl. they lost four straight in the '90s. they have such passionate fans in western new york. and meanwhile the chiefs now, the first team in nfl history to host four straight afc championship games. but, george conway, the debate right now beyond just, well, is this the greatest nfl game ever play and certainly in the non-super bowl division, right near the top, but should the league change their overtime rules? the coin flip, the chiefs won it. they got the ball. the way the rule works now is if you get a touchdown, that's the game. the other team doesn't get the ball. if you settle for a field goal, the other team does get a possession. of course, if you don't score, the other team gets a possession. college football sets up overtimes each team gets the ball at least once. what do you think, do you think the nfl needs to change the rules? >> i definitely think they should change the rule. now i think as we saw last night, i think it is just important both teams get a pull possession, even if the first team scores a touchdown. i know they don't have to do it in the regular season but they certainly ought to do it in the playoffs. if it gets too -- you know, give them another possession after that, and if they don't -- if they don't, you know, break the tie after that, then they can go to some kind of college football system. maybe you go -- you know, make them third and goal on the ten and give them two shots at the end zone each and keep doing it without any opportunity for field goals, keep doing it until they're done, you know, kind of like a soccer shootout there. that's what they need to do. can you imagine how exciting that would be if they did that? >> yeah. >> yeah, they can do it on saturday night games, jorge. i was kind of glad it ended last night because i had to go to bed and watch the game. a feast of guys kept exchanges possessions, they would be playing all night because they are two great quarterback in the same game. it was unbelievable. yesterday's early game was crazy too. it was a blowout halfway through the third quarter. this is what l.a. does. they blew out san francisco, 17-0, last game of the year. the 49ers came back, almost beat them. tom brady though yesterday was the one working his magic yet again, and he got the bucs back in the game late. >> wide to the left. brady looking the other way. brady going deep down the right side. he makes the catch! he's in for the score. >> you know, tampa bay was down 27-3 at one point. this remind me of when tom brady broke my brother and my heart, we're falcon fans, a few years back in the super bowl. that pass got them within seven. they would tie late in the fourth quarter, but there was too much time left on the field for stafford and the rams. stafford hit cooper kupp who for some unknown reason wide open down the middle. he was tackled at the ten. spiked it and won the field goal. so, jonathan lemire, i know you are all brady all the time. the guy can't do everything. he can't go on defense and play cornerback as well. i was surprised by a couple of blown coverages by the bucs yesterday. just terrible defense at times. >> yeah, we can start there. with just a few seconds left in the game, why you're calling out a blitz where all you need to do is keep the rams out of field goal range and play for overtime, you have all of the momentum, a total break down letting cooper kupp get wide open down the field. joe, after the game, a lot of the talk about tom brady, not just the fact he led another epic come back but there's increased chatter brady might walk away. he's 44 years old, still playing at mvp level. he publicly said he wanted to play until he's 45. that would be one more season. in the last couple of days there's been chatter he might step aside this off-season. after the game, of course, brady, the greatest player to lace them up, was noncommittal in terms of what he would do. saying he would take his time with his family to make his decision. certainly he has proven even at his advanced football age he can still do it. it would be -- personally, i would be in a state of mourning were he to walk away. >> of course you would. >> were he to retire he would do so with seven super bowls and an unquestioned legacy, joe. >> he should have been in another nfc championship game this year as well. on saturday now -- i know last night was crazy, okay. if you are old like me and you remember the black and blue division, these guys going around in the tundra on ice, the lions playing the bears, the bears playing the packers, the packers playing the vikings in sub zero weather with ice coming down, then saturday night's game was for you. it was a game from another century. the san francisco 49ers took on the green bay packers at lambeau, and thanks to great special teams play by the 49ers in just some of the worst special teams play by the packers anybody has ever seen, the '9ers, late in the fourth quarter, scored and tied the game at 10-10. aaron rodgers and the packers couldn't get down the field on the next possession. they had the punt. that allowed san francisco to drive the ball in field goal range and robbie gold hits the game-winner with no time left, sending san francisco to the nfc championship game and twitter into a frenzy of jokes about rodgers' unvaccinated status. george conway, that really was -- i mean many people said twitter was made for a night like saturday night. they're seriously -- you could fill a book with the ones that started immediately after the game was over. >> yeah, i mean people were saying he was immune from the super bowl. i mean the jokes just wrote themselves. it was just hysterical. then they stopped for the two games yesterday and then they started up again last night. >> yeah. mike barnicle, i know you are like me. i mean this is real football. you know, come on, keep it out of the domes. we want 'em to be playing in zero degree weather. it was unbelievable. i think the most remarkable thing is the guys from san francisco who aren't used to this weather came in and actually turned it on in the fourth quarter. they looked like the team that was used to playing in sub zero weather, and the packers, well, they just kind of melted down. i got to say, aaron rodgers, unlike all of the other great quarterbacks this weekend, once again proved he is the guy you don't want in your bunker when everything is on the line. he just got too conservative, could not close the deal for his team. >> you know, joe, that game could have been played in a time capsule. i mean the environment with the snow starting to come down, they could have been playing with leather helmets and no face masks. and in terms of the 49ers taking precedence over the packers in the final end of the game, i don't think the temperature matters for these guys when they're in a game like that. i mean the competition itself, i mean they thrive on it. it is incredible. plus, i mean their game preparation involves getting prepared for the game in various ways, which we probably don't want to get into here, but i mean they are of a mind as one to win the game. jimmy garoppolo, not the greatest quarterback in the world, but i felt very good for him because he had a wonderful day. he is great kid. aaron rodgers, as george just pointed out, the jokes just wrote themselves all night long. but in context for the entire weekend, the athleticism for quarterbacks that we saw to my mind was absolutely amazing, capped off by the two quarterbacks last night, mahomes and josh allen. the arms on these guys! in baseball, traditionally almost always your best athlete is going to be a shortstop. the range that the shortstops have, the velocity of the throws to first base from a deep hole in the shortstop and the infield, the shortstop is usually among the best athletes. the arms that these two quarterbacks displayed, mahomes and allen, throwing sideways, overhand, the velocity of the throws, it was mind boggling. >> also the coolness, how cool they were in the pocket. again, a great contrast with aaron rodgers. john lamire, one of my favorite nfl stories i have repeated a million times is when montana drove his team something like 94 yards in the super bowl to beat the bengals and everybody was freaked out in the muddle and screaming all over the stadium. he looks up in the stands and he points and goes, hey, it is john candy. everybody inside the huddle said, if he's not worried, we're not worried. he had the confidence. took him down 94 yards. that's what you saw with patrick mahomes. that's what you saw with josh allen. that's what you saw with tom brady. guys who want to be in that moment and that's just something that aaron rodgers, he doesn't like being in that moment. you can tell. he gets more conservative. he gets more cautious, and he's just not the type of guy that can take a team down a field and win time and time again, whereas brady, mahomes and allen, come on, mark it down, just get their corner in the hall of fame. of course, brady up front, but all of these guys are going to be hall of famers. they're extraordinary. >> as talented as aaron rodgers is his lifetime playoff record now 11 and 10, barely over .500 and he lost some killer home playoffs game. one of my favorite of the rodgers' twitter jokes was apparently he did his own research about the 49ers defense and couldn't get through. speaking of the bengals and john candy, the bengals are back in the spotlight because joe burrow, another cool quarterback led his team into tennessee and beat the tight tans. the titans had the ball with 30 seconds left in the game. the pass deflected and the bengals grab the interception, giving the bengals great range. they are in field goal range as time is about to expire. they nailed it. a 52-yard game-winning field goal as time expired. the bengals going to their first afc championship game since 1988. did bengals have never won a super bowl and they have chance to go back. they go to kansas city to play the chief. that's the early game on sunday at 3:00. then at 6:30, the san francisco 49ers go to los angeles, a rematch of the game at the end of the regular season a few weeks ago. the winners go on to super bowl lvi in los angeles. that is february 13th. that game will be on nbc, joe. who do you have in it? >> boy, i have to be going with kansas city and i think san francisco is the team that does it. again, here is a team that came back from a 17-0 deficit to get into the playoffs against the rams. then they had an incredible win against the cowboys. then they went to green bay, won there. but anybody could win this obviously, but here we are. you talk about joe burrows, here is another extraordinary quarterback, a great young kid. he is going to be, you know, an all-star for years to come. so this is going to be one of the most exciting football weekends next weekend, i think. just a lot of great teams and extraordinary talent lining up. mika, i know you are sorry that you missed all of this being in poland, but, honey, there's always next week. >> well, you were texting all night to the team about these games so i kept getting live updates as i was trying to sleep, but we will get to the news after 17 minutes of sports. sounds like it was worth it. by the way, as you can see i'm in warsaw, poland. this is my backdrop here which is the castle square, the old town in warsaw. it is very beautiful. i'm here helping my brother get settled in as ambassador to poland, get his family settled in and i'm at discovery-owned tbn. casha kelly made it possible, it is run by her, she is on the 50 of the 50 list. i even got my own mug as you can see ready to go this morning. >> oh, that's nice. yes. >> care of tbn. thank you. joe, before i go to news i wanted to say the way you were this morning with the sports -- [ speaking foreign language ] look it up. to the news. "politico" has obtained some of the records former president donald trump tried to shield from the committee investigating january 6th. that includes a draft order dated december 16th, 2020, that would have directed the united states military to seize voting machines. the draft included conspiracy theories about election fraud in michigan and georgia as well as, quote, international and foreign interference. the order would have appointed a special counsel to oversee the operation and would have given the secretary of defense 60 days to write up an assessment. as "politico" notes, this suggests trump would have used his big lie to stay in power until at least mid-february. joe, this information is really beginning to pileup. >> it really is. and, george conway, you can line things up and see what dick cheney, the secretary of defense who all signed that letter i think on january 3rd or the 4th, they knew what was coming. talk about the gravity, the impact of this finding. >> i mean this document is just the most insane thing you are ever going to see, and i don't even think there are words to describe how crazy it is. i mean there's basically -- there's no statutory basis for it. there's no -- the facts in it are just mostly -- are basically just made up and exaggerated. i mean this is just like -- i mean i hate these analogies, but this document would have been, if it were ever tried to be executed, is kind of almost like the modern equivalent of the german enabling act in the 1930s where essentially the executive is taking all power for itself. i mean to use the military, which would have been a violation of the insurrection act, to seize voting machines and seize voting records throughout the country, you -- anybody who even thought that this could be possible on any level and put it down on a piece of paper is not of sound mind. the notion that these people who were pushing this idea actually had access to the president of the united states in the west wing, in the oval office i think is just -- it is staggering to even think about. >> it is hard not to be gobsmacked, george. your latest op-ed for "the washington post" is entitled "the supreme court's order against donald trump is even worse for him than it appears." and you write in part, donald trump is often his own worst enemy. but sometimes, he gets competition from his lawyers. perhaps no better example of that can be found than in wednesday's order from the supreme court, which summarily rejected the former president's emergency request to block on grounds of executive privilege the release of documents to the select house committee investigating the january 6th, 2021, attack on the capitol. the court's decision was a brutal and personally stinging loss for trump. in the argument his own lawyers advanced may have made the defeat worse. the justices relied solely on reasoning that trump's claims were so paltry, his privilege arguments so weak, that trump would have lost even were he still in office. the result was an even more devastating rejection of trump's privilege claim. in effect, an unambiguous, blanket holding by the supreme court that presidents who incite insurrections in office don't get to invoke executive privilege. good work, team trump. a grateful country salutes you. i mean they were their own worst enemy, joe. it is as if they laid it out for everybody to really be able to pick through and make the claim against the president. >> yeah. time and time again his lawyers were his own worst enemies. but, george, it looks like we have a pretty good precedent against this for a presidential overreach in the years to come. you read kavanaugh's explanation of the opinion saying, hey, it doesn't matter whether donald trump is a current president or a former president, he didn't have claims of executive privilege anyway and any discussion by the lower courts about his status as a former president is just dicta. that actually makes this case even a bigger loss against donald trump. >> absolutely. i mean it was one of those things like when they told nixon how, you know, nixon against the united states came out in 1974, they told him, mr. president, there's no air in it, and there was no air in this for the former president because sometimes the courts will say, well, if you come back and you prove this, then it might be different. you know, it might. but this they basically, because they took out -- they ended the reliance that the court of appeals had on the fact that president -- the president is the former president, which trump is the former president and we defer to the judgment of the current president, they took that right out. they had to hold, basically it just emphasized how frivolous these claims are. it puts everybody else who has been trying to hide behind executive privilege in a lot of heap of trouble. ivanka trump, you got nothing now. meadows, nothing. they got no defenses now to compliance with these subpoenas. it was all because, you know, they pushed this argument too far. i don't want to dump on the lawyers too much because i mean there's sort of an unwritten rule of legal practice which is if you represent bad people who do bad things, you end up making -- having to make bad arguments and you pay a price. >> and they certainly did, as did everybody around donald trump. but it wasn't just this decision from the supreme court, mike barnicle. this was a terrible -- this past week was one of the worst weeks of donald trump has experienced inside court and out. >> you know what is interesting to me, and george just alluded to it, is the language used in these decisions. i mean the justices, written as a team in responding to this, it wished there would be more language from lower courts when some of the clownish suits are filed in conjunction with this case. the way the judges addressed it, basically saying, you know, this is foolish, this is foolish, it is irresponsible and it is a waste of our time. you would like to see more of that at various levels of jurisdiction. >> yeah, you sure would, but this decision, again, says it all. i think it is going to have a big impact where this january 6th commission goes in the weeks and months to come. george conway, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> for your great legal analysis and, of course, your football insights. mika, we still have a lot more to go, including, i'm sorry, even more on football. >> okay. we have more on football, but also more on the region i'm in right now. still ahead on "morning joe," from president biden considering sending troops to eastern europe and the baltics to the state department ordering diplomats to leave the u.s. embassy in ukraine, we will have the fast-moving developments as concerns over a possible russian invasion ramp up. plus, a member of the house foreign affairs committee, congresswoman abigail spanberger, joins us. you are watching "morning joe." we will be right back. 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[limu emu squawks] he'll be back. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ "how bizarre" by omc ♪ no annual fee on any discover card. ♪ ♪ we have been clear that first in the event that there is a renewed russian incursion, russian forces going into ukraine, there is going to be a swift, severe and united response, but we have also been clear there are other things -- we were just talking about this -- russia could do short of sending forces into ukraine to try to destabilize the government, cyberattacks, et cetera, and we have been clear there that there will be a swift, calibrated and united response. >> the u.s. is ordering all family members of the embassy staff in kiev to leave ukraine now. the state department says security conditions particularly along ukraine's borders are unpredictable and can deteriorate with little notice. it is also urging u.s. citizens in ukraine to leave and asking americans not to travel to russia. this as president biden is considering deploying several thousand u.s. troops and warships to nato allies in the baltics and eastern europe. and new this morning, nato now says it is sending additional ships and fighter jets to eastern europe amid the russia troop buildup near ukraine. joining us now, associate editor for "the washington post" david ignatius, u.s. national editor at the financial times ed luce. i think i know this guy, senior fellow at the atlantic council ian brzezinski. david ignatius, you recently returned from a trip to kiev and discussed in your new piece entitled "as invasion looms, ukrainians are calmly defiant." you write, quote, here and in warsaw, i heard an argument that the united states must stop being reactive in dealing with putin. the russian leader loves to provoke anxiety in the west and he has shown with ukraine he is ready to turn the dial way up. it falls to biden to find a way to contain this bullying russian leader without triggering an all-out war in the heart of europe. the best advice i heard echoed by the most thoughtful analysts in kiev and warsaw is that the united states and its allies must check the balance of intimidation by taking action themselves rather than responding to moscow, impose severe sanctions on russia now rather than after it has rolled into ukraine. if putin persists in covert actions in the west, match him. joe, i'll throw a question at you and you can take it to david along with yours. that's a hard balance when you have people here in this part of the world saying, don't be too reactive, and yet statement one must be ready. >> well, one must be ready but, david ignatius, your column points out it seems to me the central problem is strategy, which is we don't won't to upset putin so let's not move too quickly, let's not do anything that could be seen as provocative while vladimir putin is provoking the west every single day. you went over there and the ukrainians are basically telling you the same thing, hey, you guys need to match him move for move because if you wait until after he invades, the game is already over. >> joe, i found it very moving to be in kyiv. i returned saturday and i found a country that's on the edge of what we fear could be a savage war but people very tough minded about it. the first thing they said was what you and mika have been discussing. don't wait to punish russia after it levels our country, rolls into our capital, move now, take steps now. the most obvious example would be if the germans would join with us and say the nord stream pipeline that russia is counting on, we're not going to build that until it is clearer that this crisis is resolved, that russian troops are backing away from the border of ukrainian. that would send a message, you know, that now it is up to you, reverse the balance of intimidation. i think the things that we have been doing in the last few days, sending more troops, sending more war planes into the region, giving russia the opposite of what it hoped to obtain by its ultimatums and threats, it is now in the kind of situation it didn't want to see, moving our diplomats and families out of kyiv. the russians did that a week ago and we're now doing the same, and it is basically a way of matching their process of escalation, staying with them as we go up that ladder. this is a scary ladder, i should make clear. the feeling that you get from the people in kyiv is one of stoicism, they are prepared to fight the battle. they know it is going to be brutal. they just want to have some confidence that the western world stands with them, and i think there's a growing sign that the biden administration wants to lead that. europeans, i'm still not sure whether the french and germans are ready to come on board. russia is watching that very carefully. it is a key variable. in sum, my sense of being in kyiv was they expect war is going to come. they say they're ready for it. there are signs that they need to prepare more, but the new things the u.s. is doing now to make this a more straight-up, even fight i think are encouraging, encouraging people in the streets. >> well, breaking news this morning, of course, that biden is now considering sending thousands of troops to eastern europe and the baltics, ed luce. so it appears that the biden administration is getting off their heels and starting to lean forward a bit more. but david ignatius talked about germany. germany has been acting deplorably over the past several weeks, acting like they're aligned with russia for the most part. i wonder if joe biden forcefully makes a statement on the pipeline, and if he doesn't start acting more aggressively towards germany as well because right now it is very clear that we have -- we have our western allies, we have our nato allies shoulder to shoulder and we have the germans who are obviously more interested in energy than the freedom of the ukrainians. >> yes, when people talk about european disunity or allied changes of emphasis and confusion, they're really talking about german confusion. there isn't much confusion coming from -- there are some independent initiatives as you would expect from the french, but there's not really much difference between most nato members, and particularly between most significant nato members until you get to germany. germany is not just taking a different stance to most of its european partners, but inside itself, inside this new coalition government we've got in germany there are very different points of view. olaf schultz, the chancellor, the guy who took over from angela merkel, is a more tradition at -- not pro-russia but let's-accommodate-russia figure, and the green party is much more hawkish on russia. we saw on the weekend the russian navy who had been at a conference in delhi speaking to the indians at the conference and saying, look, all putin wants is some respect, we should let him keep crimea and he was forced to resign, which i guess is a positive sign germany is trying to tighten up. but britain, which has been very hawkish on this -- and i have to say i'm a little skeptical of some of britain's moves given that the prime minister there, boris johnson, is desperately trying to cling on to his job and therefore tempted to change the subject, that britain has been flying arms, defensive weapons, anti-tank equipment, et cetera, into ukraine but bypassing german airspace. so there's clearly doubt about germany's commitment and certainly internal unity on this issue, which it is nowhere near close to forging. >> ian, we are certainly seeing ominous signs the last couple of days, the u.s. ordering embassy personnel to evacuate, we are seeing troops and war ships headed to the region, but still there's a path for diplomacy here. the white house told me in the last couple of days there's no appetite for biden and putin face-to-face but what is a different diplomatic off ramp that could be offered to putin to get him to back down? >> you know, i don't think it is going to be a diplomatic off ramp that gets putin to back down. you know, the biden administration has been emphasizing these last weeks strategy that calls for more diplomacy and a posture after-the-fact economic sanctions and it hasn't worked. look, the russians continued to increase their offensive presence on ukraine's frontiers. we are seeing a game-changing development in belarus, we are seeing false flag operations. there needs to be a fundamental change in biden's strategy and it has to be something that shifts from passive deterrence and pleads for diplomacy to a posture of active deterrence. one designed to seize the initiative from putin and exert more control on the dynamics of the crisis. it is not going to be an off ramp. it will be really four key elements. escalatory economic sanctions in response to what russia has already posed on the region. more assertive efforts to take control of the narrative of this crisis, not only before western audiences but the russian public. intensify military engagement with the ukrainians including accelerated transfer of lethal military equipment so ukrainians can better defend themselves. and what we are talking about today, deployment of forces to southeastern poland and romania. that will be key because it will complicate russian planning. i have to say one last point, if biden is heading down this route which he should, he has to make sure that the frontiers have both mass and cross border punch including strike aircraft, long-range artillery. a small deployment of 1,000 personnel and a handful of aircraft and shifts nato is sending to the region could be counterproductive in the face of 120,000 russians posed to invade ukraine. so deployment, you want to change the game and cause putin to change his calculus has to demonstrate we have the stomach for a fight. >> david ignatius, you have been writing about the moods and moves of vladimir putin for two decades now. so my question to you is what happens in moscow when the body bags start returning there? >> you know, mike, that's really the essential question in calculating how this is going to turn out. i'm told that in russian there's a phrase that was used during the 2014 seizure of crimea and battle in eastern ukraine for those body bags, they called them cargo 200. cargo 200 was arriving, which was a euphemism for the human cost of this war and russians didn't like it. i think as grimace it is to say this that if putin attacks in a significant way across the line into ukraine, ukraine's strategy as best i could understand talking to people is to kill russian soldiers quickly in as many numbers as they can to show the cost right away because polling suggests this war, mike, is not popular with large parts of russia. there is no overwhelming tide of support for putin's idea that ukraine and russia are one. he has this almost mystical view of the way the two are intertwined. most russians don't see to have that same passion, and that's why if this war is really a bloody one, it is going to be difficult for putin i think to explain it to his country. but that's the kind of grim planning that i'm hearing. >> yeah, and you know what, luce, we americans look inward so much and look at our failings militarily, whether it is in afghanistan or vietnam or iraq. the russians, they remember what happened in 1979. they remember what happened when dr. brzezinski for jimmy carter and the carter administration organized resistance in afghanistan. that was a nightmare. it was a terrible black eye for a country, and it was the beginning of the end for the soviet empire. i'm just wondering, does vladimir putin not remember what happened the last time he took on the united states and the west in one of these -- in one of these situations? >> well, i mean that remains a very good analogy, as does the non-soviet invasion of poland in 1980 that we've discussed before and ian has written about. you know, i think the soviet invasion of afghanistan and america's response, the carter administration's response, led by mika's dad, was really revenge for vietnam, is to create a soviet quagmire in that country. i think if we are talking about afghanistan, putin's stance today is informed by a much more recent afghanistan episode, which is the withdrawal of the u.s. and its allies from afghanistan last summer, which made -- reinforced the impression that the biden impression was weak, was focused on east asia and not other parts of the world, and that there might be an opening for putin here to exploit. so i think that's what is in putin's mind as well as our response, chiefly economic, to the seizure of crimea in 2014 and, indeed, to the occupation of parts of georgia in 2008. so putin believes that the russians can take these economic sanctions, and in has built up massive russian central bank reserves. we are talking about $500 billion, $600 billion against less than $20 billion in 2018. he has made russia less dependent, they've diversified away from the dollar into the chinese remnant b. he has taken steps to insulate russia from the coming economic sanctions. >> so this is the topic of discussion here in warsaw. so, david ignatius, ed luce, ian brzezinski, sure to see you again on "morning joe" to continue covering this as it develops. thank you all for being on this morning. coming up, more on what many consider to be the best weekend of nfl playoff ever with all four games going down to the final second. we will take another look at the drama on the field and why so many people were so happy that aaron rodgers was sent packing. mike florio of "pro football talk" joins us next. we will be right back with much more "morning joe." 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history's call. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ with a bit more thought we can all do our part to keep plastic out of the ocean. kick was down the middle! and good! 49ers win it! >> well, aaron rodgers may have played his final game for the green bay packers. the future hall of famer has had a rocky relationship with the team over the past few years and asked for a trade last off-season. he restructured his contract so he can be a free agent this off-season. he's also not ruled out retiring. rodgers is one of the best quarterbacks ever to play in the nfl but he's not as well liked as others who have played that position. a former general manager told "fansided" the guy is selfish, teammates don't like him, coaches don't like him. it is all about aaron. they deal with him because he's a superstar. rodgers' reputation has taken a hit this year after a controversy over his vaccination status when he caught covid in november. it came out he had not been vaccinate it. some thoughts rodgers received the shot based on prior comments he made about being immunized. rodgers respond by saying he was the victim of a woke mob and a witch hunt. very original. earlier in the season rodgers also got in some heat for yelling and cursing at a woman in chicago and screaming that he blanking owned them. he owned them repeatedly. rodgers says he was set off by a fan who gave him the middle finger after he scored a touchdown. let's bring in tv commentator radio host mike florio, the creator of profootballtalk.com. we have talked about some of the games. i want to go through that with you. first, let's talk about aaron rodgers. many people say twitter was created for nights like saturday night. rodgers loses and, of course, twitter lights up for the next two days. but talk about aaron rodgers and how his own teammates, his own coaches, some of his own fans have trouble wrapping their arms around this incredibly talented quarterback. >> it is such a difficult thing to reconcile. he is one of the great quarterbacks in league history, not just currently but of all time, but at the same time he has become incredibly polarizing. the vaccination lie that he told back in july because he intensely hates criticism. he wants to be praised, he doesn't want to be criticized. that's what caused all of this. we have seen so much of that from aaron rodgers, especially in recent years. he has been talking more, he has been using his platforms, and he wants to have that attention and adulation with none of the criticism that goes along with it. i don't see that ending regardless of whether he retires or he plays for somebody else. aaron rodgers is who he is and he is going to keep on talking and we're going to keep on talking about the things he has to say. >> you know, ten years from now nobody will be talking about his anti-vax position. if they're talking about his position in nfl history it is how did he perform in the big games. he is 11 and 10 in playoffs games, as lamire pointed out. he does not come through the way other great quarterbacks have come through in the past whether you are talking about montana and brady. or mahomes and allen. talk about that game. was that perhaps the greatest nfl playoff game we have seen? >> i think it is right up there with the best of the best. joe you and i are old enough to remember the immaculate reception game which was the moment that the nfl for me became a big deal. this thing, what happened the final two minutes, back and forth, up and down the field, 25 minutes after the two-minute warning, 177 passing yards from patrick mahomes after the two-minute warning. the thing about this game, as exciting as it was, it is unsatisfying and there need to be a long conversation about the overtime rules because it is just not fair. it doesn't give both teams a chance to continue to do what they were doing late in the game. i hope it doesn't take away much from the exploits we saw. i hope this is really the second of what will be many josh allen/patrick mahomes playoff games in coming years. >> incredible. let's talk about the san francisco 49ers. they have looked like a team of destiny since coming back from a 17-0 deficit to get into the playoff against their rivals, the rams, then played a great game against the cowboys and outplayed the entire game the other night at lambeau field and found a way to win in a football game from another century. talk about the 49ers and how extraordinary devo is. >> they're an incredibly good game. the key is for them to be healthy. they play with such reckless abandon they get injured. when they line up healthy like sanders who is incredible with a football in his hand, even though he is a receiver, george kittle who is one of the best tight ends on your feet and nick bosa who was healthy enough to go after suffering concussion last week. they get these guys healthy, they can beat anyone. the irony is their quarterback, the most important position on the field, for the 49ers the quarterback is the weak link. he's the guy you hold your breath and say, oh, no, is jimmy garoppolo going to screw it up, but they just keep winning. >> hey, mike. jonathan lemire. i want to get you quickly on the other emerging story line from the weekend. it came out of nowhere but was everywhere yesterday, was that tom brady, the greatest quarterback in league history, was that tom brady's last game? >> in one is amazing to me, jonathan, because brady said multiple times throughout the season he will play through 2022 and decide after that how much longer he will be. it was never an issue. it was a given. he said it over and over. he told "wall street journal" magazine, said it on his podcast with jim gray, i'm playing through 2022. in recent days it comes up he's not committed to playing wore more year, he may not play one more year. the prevailing thought is time is up, it is time for him to focus on his family. 22 years in the nfl, he has missed so much of his kids growing up that this may be the time that his wife says that's it, tommy, it is done, it is over and you are not playing anymore. he said after the game he will take it day by day, which is a far cry from him saying throughout the season, i will definitely play in 2022. >> all right, mike florio, thank you for being with us today after just an extraordinary weekend of football. of course, your new book "playmakers: how the nfl really works and doesn't" is available for preorder. please come back when the book is released. still ahead, across the united states covid-19 cases are finally falling. what top health officials are saying about that trend. plus, my interview with five-time grammy award winning musician questlove about his remarkable. i mean it is remarkable, it is mind blowing. he has an extraordinary music documentary that is about so much more than music. we are back in two minutes. ares ) well, you'd get a discount for insuring your jet skis... and boat...rv...life... ...home and 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(burke) seventeen-car garage you got there? ♪we are farmers♪ ♪bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum♪ but if the pattern follows the trend that we're seeing in other places such as the northeast, i believe that you will start to see a turnaround throughout the entire country. we don't want to get over confident, but they look like they're going in the right direction right now. >> white house chief medical adviser dr. anthony fauci warning against over confidence amid the downward trend of covid infections. the average trend infections of omicron fell about 5% in the past week. welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, january 24th. i'm here in warsaw. jonathan lemire and mike barnicle are still with us. let's jump into the news at the top of the hour. the january 6th select committee has received more than 700 pages from trump white house documents from the national archives two days after the supreme court denied the request to withhold them. the documents include trump's activity logs, logs of phone calls, handwritten notes from top aides, including former chief of staff mark meadows, a handwritten list of potential or scheduled briefings and telephone calls concerning election issues. also, records from then-press secretary kayleigh mcenany and former deputy white house counsel patrick philbin and a, quote, draft executive order concerning election integrity. chairman bennie thompson said last week the committee will release documents to the public, but he did not say when. thompson was also asked whether the panel planned to speak with former attorney general bill barr after a draft executive order from then-president donald trump to seize voting machines. he revealed the committee already has. committee member zoe lufkin revealed to msnbc that talks with barr have been ongoing. >> to be honest with you, we have had conversations with the former attorney general already. we have talked to department of defense individuals. we are concerned that our military was part of this big lie on promoting that the election was false. so if you are using the military to potentially seize voting machines, even though it is a discussion, the public needs to know. >> it was not a formal, you know, deposition. it has been some discussions that the attorneys on the staff have had with the former attorney general and it was done on a voluntary basis. >> well, former president trump is slamming the january 6th select committee for requesting to speak with his daughter, ivanka. in an interview with the "washington examiner" trump called the committee a disgrace. trump added, they're using these things to try to get people's minds off how incompetently our country is being run and they don't care, they will go after children. in a letter the committee said it wants to discuss conversations ivanka witnessed or participated in related, quote, to the president's plan to obstruct or impede the counting of electoral votes. trump told "the examiner" the committee was overreaching and the committee could care less. jonathan, ivanka is in his 30s and was a counsel to the president so i don't think it meets the level of going after children, but what is it that she could share that could be valuable in any way? >> actually, mika, ivanka trump turned 40 last week. she is 40 years old and she served four years in the white house as adviser along with her husband jared kushner. she by no estimation is a child. she also was one of the leading voices in the administration and, frankly, one of the last senior advisers still left as january 6th rolled around. chief of staff meadows was still there but so much had hauled out. people left for other jobs because they believed the race was indeed over and donald trump lost. there also had been a couple of covid outbreaks in the building and a lot of folks were working from home. ivanka trump, her reporting per testimony was in the office on january 6th. she was one of the people who tried to get hur father, the president, to call off the rioters committing acts of violence in his name at the capitol. shelves urging him to put out a statement on twitter. eventually he did in which he told the rioters he loved them and it took the third take before he uttered the words it was time for them to go home. so her testimony would, of course, be of great interest to the january 6th select committee. it comes as we mentioned earlier, very tough stretch for the president with the national archives turning over thousands upon thousands upon thousands of documents to the committee, which is also looking to ramp up the public face of these investigations, looking to have televised hearings, potentially even in primetime some time this spring. >> so it does seem, jonathan, over the past two weeks the momentum has picked up on the january 6th committee despite all of the arguments, despite all of the republicans trying to block this. the law is the law is the law. they've got a supreme court ruling that says january 6th committee has the right to get the information. they've got volumes of documents, had volumes of documents before that. they have former trump white house people like kayleigh mcenany and others who were working with this committee, trying to get information. they certainly weren't in support of the january 6th commission. it seems to me they're going to be able to piece together whatever timeline they want to piece together, not only on january 6th but in the days leading up to january the 6th. this -- i mean you can see the puzzle pieces really coming together here. >> no, no question. there have been some criticism, joe, from democrats that the committee was moving too slowly and that caucus quieted. it seems like they had been painstaking and methodically putting together their case, even if they don't get testimony from some of the biggest bold-faced name in the trump world, bannon, meadows, the trump children. none are expected to cooperate here but they may not need them. they're putting together documents together with real-time contemporaneous notes. we know the former president doesn't e-mail but a lot of people around him down and there were certainly those and text messages and now testimony from the former attorney general william barr who had been a staunch loyalist most of his time in office, but broke with the president after the election. he made it clear in a public interview that they found no election fraud and he offered his resignation two weeks prior to the new year because he wouldn't stand alongside what the president was falsely claiming. >> one more news on him before we get to escalating tensions between russia and ukraine. the arizona democratic party is censoring senator kyrsten sinema after she voted against the voting rights bill. they say it is unlikely if not entirely impossible that the party would support sinema in a future reelection bid. in a statement the party executive board wrote in part, as a party our job is to support our democratic candidates. however, we are also here to advocate for our constituents and the ramifications of failing to pass federal legislation that protects their right to vote are too large and far reaching. the chair of the arizona democratic party defended the censure noting ongoing efforts to overturn election results. >> senator sinema voted to protect the senate rule that is not in our constitution, the filibuster. while our party is a true coalition, there is room for disagreement on policy, and this issue we have been consistent and vocal over the last year. as a member of the arizona legislature i know that because republicans our voting rights are at risk and protecting the franchise is more important than an outdated rule. >> senator sinema's office responded to a vote in a statement. quote, kyrsten has promised arizonans she would be an independent voice for the state, not for either political party. she's delivered for arizonans and has always been honest about where she stands. so, joe, was it all worth it for senator sinema? >> that depends. does she want to impress people in washington, d.c. and the upper west side of manhattan or does she want to impress people in arizona? mike barnicle, a ppp poll out just a couple of days ago in west virginia shows the two most popular politicians in west virginia, donald trump and joe manchin. and joe biden is down in the 20s. trump is in the 60s. manchin is extremely popular. he is popular with democrats, he is popular with independents, he is popular with republicans. and then you go to arizona, you look at polls comparing sinema and kelly, at least latest polls that i saw showed that sinema is doing much better in arizona than kelly is. while kelly does better with democrats, sinema does much better with independents, does much better with republicans. she has got the old john mccain caucus. so when people start talking about, oh, democracy is broken, these two centrists, these two conservative democrats are breaking democracy, maybe if you are a blogger in manhattan, maybe if -- you know, you are leading the democratic party -- and i understand the frustrations. personally, i share those frustrations with people who think they should back an exemption, and i said it for well over a year. but, please, this is not undermining democracy. what we are seeing here are two representatives that came from conservative areas, who came from red states who are representing those red states. >> you know, joe, the interesting thing is i never had my name on a ballot, nor has lamire had his name on a ballot. we are commenting on people whose lives are on the ballot and they know what they're doing. i mean senator sinema, she sometimes sounds illogical or sometimes incomprehensible in the positions that she does take, but her name is on the ballot and she clearly wants to be reelected. so she is playing her game and her game has been skillful thus far, both internally in the senate. although people don't like what she has been doing, it has been skillful. she keeps her name in the headlines and she appeals to the larger constituency in scottsdale, in yuma and everywhere else in arizona, much more than senator kelly as you pointed out, but it is an interesting game to watch. >> yes, it is called democracy. jonathan lemire, if the democrats want more progressive senators in west virginia and want more progressive senators in arizona, go ahead, primary them and see how that works out for you. they're probably not going to get them. they probably need to start winning other swing states like florida, wisconsin and states like that so they don't have to ever worry about these two votes again. >> yeah, good luck finding a democrat who is going to beat joe manchin in west virginia. he is the only democrat -- >> never happen. >> he's the only democrat that will win in that state, that's the widely held belief. that's the sort of trouble that the administration has had trying to get the agenda through the senate, is how close the democrats came to winning other senate seats and how bad democrats fell apart in north carolina. if they had put someone better there, they could have added to their margins and therefore not be at times almost held hostage by the two senators from west virginia and arizona. that's the trick, trying to increase the margin of your majority. for this november, it will be trying to keep the majority. most believe the house is likely going republican but the senate seems to be more of a toss up. that's where democrats need to put their energies. back to the tensions between russia and ukraine. the u.s. state department is ordering all family members of american embassy staff in kyiv to leave ukraine now. they say security conditions along ukraine's borders are unpredictable and can deteriorate with little notice. it is also urging u.s. citizens in ukraine to leave. it is asking americans not to travel to russia. this as president biden is considering deploying several thousand u.s. troops and war ships to nato allies in the baltics and eastern europe. new this morning, nato now says it is sending additional ships and fighter jets to eastern europe amid the russia troop buildup near ukraine. joining us now, president and founder of eurasia group ian bremmer and president and ceo of the atlantic counsel sim, fred kemp. good to have you both. i have a question for you both. fred, i will start with you. in all of the reporting on this potential, possible, imminent invasion, i haven't heard one report or reason for why it won't happen. what am i missing? >> so, mika, first of all it is just great to see you in warsaw. give my greetings to the ambassador if you could. >> will do. >> what this is all about is can one change putin's calculus. in 2008 george w. bush looked by while putin went into georgia. in 2014 obama looked by while putin went into crimea and parts of ukraine. now is question is can biden be any different and change the calculus. they're trying to make the sanctions threat so putin sees it and says, this will be unbearable, this will hurt me far more than sanctions hurt me in 2014, and the fact that troops would move in after an incursion or invasion of ukraine, into neighboring countries, nato countries near ukraine, that's the other threat. what i think he really needs to do is do sanctions now, move the troops forward now because putin has escalated and he needs to escalate. i think that's really the lesson from the past, is you have to change putin's calculus. >> ian bremmer, what is the why for russia on doing this? then you also can answer my initial question. my point is are they establishing a new-found strength in the world? what is driving them and what is the reason perhaps an invasion could be prevented? >> thanks, mika. hey, fred. i think there are two different things i need to respond to. first, does diplomacy have any chance of working. clearly the kremlin when they decided that they were going to roll up this group, which is the cyber group that was attacking the colonial pipeline on the same day that they attacked ukraine with cyber, this was a couple of weeks ago, that was the top ask from president biden when he met with putin in geneva back in june. it was a clear message from the kremlin that they would like to see a potential off ramp. you don't do that unless you think diplomacy has a chance. does that mean we are going to get to where the russians would need to get to feel like they're going to back down? it is an open question. i think the kremlin itself is sending the fact there is an open door that continues to engage. then the question is, okay, if that doesn't work, what stops them from full invasion? here i think you have a stronger message, which is not only that the intelligence leaks from the uk over the weekend display a pretty poorly thought-out political plan for how the russians would be able to get a ukrainian government that would be aligned with them. the military cost to russia itself would be enormous, unpopular inside russia, but also a strong and unified response by the united states and the nato allies, canada and the europeans in terms of what we would do to russia if they fully invade. now, i think that's very credible in saying why russian tanks are going to roll up and why the ukrainian government isn't going to be overthrown, but it doesn't stop the russians from, quote, unquote, going in as president biden said he thought they would during the press conference last week and why you see american nonessential personnel start pulling out of the embassy in kyiv right now. there are all sorts of options the russians have for meaningful escalation, both on the ground as well as outside of ukraine over the coming weeks and months that do not meet the threshold of full invasion, overthrow of ukraine. american response to that may well be, well, it is an invasion but the allies are not completely on board with us and the russian government is well aware of that. >> fred, the russians, especially putin who is russia, have made enormous strides in nurturing and building their relationship with the chinese. so we sit here and we talk about the imminence of an invasion of the ukraine, but why would vladimir putin want to deeply offend the chinese by invading the ukraine and stepping all over their olympics which are about to start in a few days? that doesn't make any sense, does it? >> that's such a great question. first of all, i do agree with ian that something is going to happen and it is going to be as president biden forecast, which is smaller, not a full invasion. the answer to your question is don't forget that putin was at the beijing olympics, summer olympics in 2008 as his troops were going into georgia, so history could repeat itself. that being said, he will be in beijing i think february 4th. i doubt he will move before then. he could. right now the chinese and the russians have the closest, closest strategic relationship, personal relationship between president xi and putin, intelligence sharing that there's ever been. so i think they both want to take the united states and western allies down a few notches. if putin can do that and do it in such a way that it is not a full invasion, a takeover of ukraine but more bringing ukraine into its sphere of influence, i think president xi would go along with that. >> ian, let me ask you about a question we touched on this weekend. i have been hearing, and of course others have been hearing from foreign policy leaders, diplomats that russia looked at afghanistan as a sign of weakness from the united states, just like china would look at our passivity towards ukraine also as an opening for taiwan. you said that's not the case. explain. >> i said it wasn't a green light to the chinese. the russians are in decline. they find that status quo moving against them in ukraine. taiwan, the chinese are not -- they can much more easily afford to be patient. also, unlike on ukraine where the americans have explicitly said that we're not going to defend them, every message that the chinese are getting on taiwan is that the united states is building stronger focus. indeed, if anyone had a green light it was putin because the americans are increasingly saying china is the top concern, we are building the defense pac, we are strengthening the quad, the indians have flipped against the chinese. the united states is sending those flashing, flashing signals that everything we are doing is focused on china, on the pacific, on taiwan. i see why putin would think that ukraine didn't matter very much to this american president, why putin would see that merkel's departure -- and shifts the tough leader on the minsk process -- would create an opportunity for him, while energy prices are higher with the winter coming means it is a good chance to press biden personally and see how far he can get on ukraine without suffering major, major backlash, but none of those things apply in taiwan. thankfully i would say. i'm the chinese government right now, i'm thinking when might there be an american president who is much less concerned about china, about american allies in the pacific, is much more transactional, or maybe when is there a constitutional crisis when the americans don't know who the president is for a period of weeks or months. that's a much more opportune time for the chinese to shake the branches and see if any fruit falls off. it is certainly not right now. >> ian bremmer and fred kemp of the atlantic council, thank you both for joining us. i'm sure we will see you soon i'm sure. coming up on "morning joe," incidents of gun violence are on the rise. we will have the latest on a new wave and an encounter that left a young nypd officer dead. also ahead, we will tell you about the unique way the governor of new mexico is helping schools in her state that are struggling 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threes? hmm. can't think of anyone! subway keeps refreshing and re... your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire this morning a young nypd officer is dead and another clinging to life after a domestic dispute took a tragic turn. it was a call for a domestic dispute. the shooting comes amid a wave of violent crimes that have visitors and residents on edge. nbc news correspondent stephanie gosk reports. >> reporter: this weekend police departments on edge after office ofs were shot in multiple cities. >> an offices was shot, male took off. >> reporter: houston police grieving one of their own after a traffic stop turned deadly. in d.c. police responded to a man acting suspiciously and he opened fire. one officer sustained nonlife threatening injuries, ul of this as new york is a city in mourning. >> it hurts my life. >> reporter: hundreds lining the street as the body of 22-year-old officer jason rivera was escorted from the medical examiner's office. his partner, 27-year-old wilber mora is in critical condition. both were investigating a domestic disturbance when they were shot. police say 47-year-old sean mcneil filed on the police officers in his mower's apartment. police recovered an extended glock pistol that holds you have to 40 rounds. >> violence against new york, that's the battle we're in right now. >> reporter: the mayor pleading to get guns off the city streets. >> it appears as though for every gun we remove from the street five are coming in. >> reporter: five nypd officers have been shot in the first three weeks of this year. in east harlem a 19-year-old burger king employee was shot and killed when the shooter tried to rob the restaurant. it was her last week on the night shift. just days ago an 11-month-old girl was struck in the face by a stray bullet in the bronx. in response mayor adams says he will reinstate controversial anti-gun units staffed by plains clothes officers. but today the city remembers a young man tragically lost. >> jason, love you. you will also be remembered, always. >> let's bring in right now a member of "the new york times" editorial board mara gay. obviously bringing order to new york city, especially in areas most afflicted by violence, is one of the new mayor's top priorities. it has gotten off to a rough start, obviously not something he can turn around in a couple of weeks or a couple of months, but certainly it just underlines what a great challenge it will be for mayor adams. >> that's right, joe. you have the immediate challenge, which is, of course, putting the resources in the neighborhoods and communities where we've seen this spike in violence. the context is important here. so we've seen crime rise and shootings rise in the past couple of years during the pandemic. it is still nothing like it was 20, 25 years ago, 30 years ago, but ultimately, you know, every life matters and every crime makes the city less safe. so mayor adams is expected in the coming days to come up with a blueprint for safety, as he calls it. it may include things like reinstating the plain clothes police unit disbanded under former mayor de blasio, a very controversial move because they were involved in high-profile police killings including the killing of eric garner. if that is done, it needs to be done extremely narrowly focused and carefully and executed properly. there are other considerations which, of course, include getting more officers on subways and in high-traffic areas. you know, ultimately just making sure that there's a show of force without returning to the kind of broken-windows policing that actually just harasses young kids really who are, you know, not the problem. of course, underlying this is a national problem of gun violence. you know, mayor adams said, you know, after the cop was shot, the officer was killed on friday night, he said, "we don't manufacture guns here in new york," and that's true, right. so you've got the iron pipeline that's coming up from i-95, coming across from ohio from i-80, and this is a national problem but it is a problem that every mayor has kind of been left on his or her own to solve. that shouldn't be. so, you know, mayor adams needs to walk and chew gum at the same time. it is going to be an extremely difficult winter. of course, you know, you can't address crime and public safety without addressing the underlying causes of mental illness, of homelessness, the housing crisis in the city which is ongoing and, of course, the joblessness. you know, the city's employment has not returned with the same strength that you see nationally. so mayor adams has his work cut out for him and there's no doubt about it. >> no doubt about it. mike barnicle, mara brings up a great point. i remember being in new york in '89, '90, '91. it was so bad i decided i was never going to bring my family back there again. i think it ranked number two behind sarajevo as the worst destination resorts in the world. of course, sarajevo in the middle of the balkans civil war at the time. but new york cleaned up, it stayed safe. two to three years of de blasio's administration crime was at a 50-year low. "the new york times" reported they had to estimate how high crime was back in the 1950s to try to compare how safe new york city was, that it had moved that far. new yorkers and americans don't want to move back. they are used to lower crime rates. it has been a rough couple of years. eric adams, it looks like he will be on tip of the spear here. people will be looking to see what he does in new york city to bring the numbers back down. >> yeah, joe. as mara indicated, the changes in new york city in terms of crime from 10, 15, 20 years ago are literally night and day. it is a far safer city now than it has ever been, but it does not mean that the job of policing has gotten any easier. not only in new york, not only in big cities throughout the country, but in small towns everywhere. it is a very complex profession, policing. look, truth be told, i'm from a cop family. cops, fbi agents, they are throughout my family, throughout my family's history. when you get a call for a domestic disturbance, i don't care whether it is in a small town of 3,500 people or whether it is in the bronx on a friday or saturday night here in new york city, it is among the most dangerous calls you will ever get because you don't know what you are getting into. you do know that you are introducing yourself as a police officer into a highly volatile, highly personal situation. you are going into someone's life, and you walk down that hallway that night and you don't know what is behind that door. so i would hope that what has happened in new york city will give a different frame of reference to many people in this country about the job of policing, how difficult it is, but also to remember the complexity of policing. we have two different strands of thought here. we have the three officers who were implicated by standing by and doing nothing as george floyd died -- that trial is about to begin -- and a burial is about to take place across the street here from 30 rock in new york city in st. patrick's cathedral for a 22-year-old police officer who was trying to help a family situation and died in the middle of it. lamire, i got to tell you, it is awful and it is throughout the country. >> no, it is. certainly we heard from police -- we've heard from the police that night describing the situation as officers responded. they were talking to a mother and a son. they go down the hallway, another son opens the door, opens fire, catching them unawares. joe, we expect to hear from mayor eric adams later today. he will give remarks this afternoon, outlining some of his new strategy to battle the rising crime. certainly it is not the battle days, it is not the early '90s, but crime is heading in a disturbing direction in new york and across big cities across the nation. >> i love what you said, mara. mayor adams can walk and chew gum at the same time. i'm pretty darn conservative on crime, and if the plainclothes units can come back, that's fantastic. but eric garner was murdered on staten island for trying to sell cigarettes. all right. so you talk about being able to walk and chew gum, i mean are you -- if this unit is going to be used to go into neighborhoods where kids aren't safe walking to school, where kids aren't safe in school, where people can't walk to a subway and get into it, that's fine. but if they're going to be chasing people on staten island who are trying to sell cigarettes, i mean, yeah, i'm sure not only count you out, count me out, count everybody out. he can walk and chew gum at the same time, and for people suggesting that there can't be a middle ground here, i think they're giving up too easily. i think there's a way forward. >> you know, there has to be some common sense applied here. you know, part of the issue is that the new york police department, both for better, i would argue, and worse is so enormous that you have to think very carefully about how and where to deploy those resources. we have always long had a situation in new york where it is a very small number of individuals in this city who are committing violent crime. it is not, you know, just the kid selling lucys on the street, as you said, joe. so you have to be very narrow in your application of what is an enormous and powerful police force, and we can do that. that's something that mayor adams has promised. so you do want people to be safe wherever they're going. you want a presence of police officers in the subways, as most new yorkers do. you want kids to be and feel safe coming home from school, all of that. but what you don't want is a force that's focused on, you know, overwhelming harassment of young black and hispanic men. so it really does need to be a carefully applied policing strategy, and it also needs to be focused on solving the homicides that we do have. so we need to get those clearance rates up. there's a whole lot of work that needs to be done. you know, in the immediate we're going to need to hear from this mayor. new york is a city that is mayor focused, maybe even a country that is focused on the mayor of new york. as you said, joe, all eyes will be on mayor adams. he needs to respond decisively and quickly without criminalizing children really. so this is going to be a major test for him coming soon. >> all right, mara. thank you so much for being with us. member of "the new york times" editorial board, mara gay. we greatly appreciate it. >> thank you, mara mika, of course, it is really something what you have been telling me off line about poland. obviously right now throughout poland there's one focus it seems and one focus only, and that is the coming conflict between russia and ukraine and how much poland is going to be drawn into it. this morning we get breaking news that joe biden's actually talking about sending troops and sending weapons the way of poland and other nato countries. >> well, this was one of the reasons why it was so important to get an ambassador here. so there you have it. there will be much more on this later on in the show and in the coming days. coming up, we will show you how singer adele made up to some of her fans after cancelling several concerts at the very last minute over covid concerns. and a note as we go to break in the latest episode of my podcast "mika straight up" i speak with the founder and ceo of beauty blender to discuss her journey from makeup artists to cosmetics legend. the 50-over-50 rise to the top wasn't linea or quick, but at 60 years old silva shares with me how she views her age as an advantage. she reveals her keys to success. you can listen to it on "mika straight up" wherever you get your podcasts. and while you are there, hit subscribe so you can be the first to know when new episodes are coming your way. we will be right back with much more "morning joe." right back more "morning joe. 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shortages as schools. grisham launched the supporting teachers and families initiative last week, asking state workers and national guard members to become volunteer substitute teachers and child care workers. grisham does not have prior experience in education but is expected to be placed in an elementary school this week. that is incredible. a few die-hard adele fans got the rare chance to say hello to their favorite singer on face time. last week the superstar postponed her las vegas residency due to covid-19 shipping issues but not before some supporters made the trip to sin city to see her. to make up for it, the singer is asking fans to take it easy on me. you know her song. offering them a free gift from her merch store, an apology written in lipstick and in some cases a facetime chat. that's night. she's trying there. also, a truck towing a trailer load of 100 monkeys -- what are you doing to me, alex, here? crashed on friday in rural pennsylvania. this morning the last of the monkeys that had escaped have been accounted for. a pickup towing a trailer with the primates turned in front of an oncoming truck and was hit. several monkeys escaped when the trailer separated from the truck. the shipment of monkeys was en route to a cdc quarantine facility after arriving in the country friday morning according to an e-mail from a spokesperson with the cdc, three monkeys were dead after being euthanized. the e-mail did not elaborate as to why, the type of research for which the monkeys were apparently destined for was not clear. i have folks in poland wondering what is the news we cover in the u.s. of a. up next, it gets worst. nbc sports soccer analyst joins us. break out your roger to english dictionary. we will be right back. h dictionary we will be right back. as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ only 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no going back. you're a one-man stitchwork master. but your staffing plan needs to go up a size. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire let's bring in msnbc soccerable list host then blazers roger. warsaw looks as beautiful and clear as new york city. author of the best seller "reborn in the u.s.a." this will reverse male pattern baldness, help your backswing and eradicate chicken weed in your backyard if you buy this book. it's extraordinary. i do wonder before we get into english football, if you would like to comment a bit about american football. i enjoyed very much looking at arlo white and your tweets last night about the not so beautiful sport, nfl football. >> i would like to say beautiful sport but the single greatest game i've ever witnessed. days of your buffalo/kansas city, greek epic poems will be written about that. balance lets will be written. tapestries woven of that winning touchdown. >> it's beautiful. absolutely beautiful. let's talk now about the beautiful game and chelsea. chelsea has had a pretty rough run of it, as you know. my son joey, he roots for the microsoft premier league football. he was very relieved chelsea finally stepped up. >> yes. they've had a season that is called an arizona cardinals experience. the premier league was back. the big game of the weekend in the big spoke, london town, dick van dyk's backyard. chelsea hosting tottenham. it came to light in the 47th minute. watch this. the ball finds its way to had a scheme ziat who cuts inside and latches it. >> whoa! >> a goal that makes your heart sing "i'll do anything for love but i won't do that." meeting onto the ball. ready. they lose 2-0 after three days of blunder. in other games, man united like the tampa bay buccaneers over the glazers. came to light 93rd minute. united set up move here and marcus rashford. he's former slumped but now the kind of joy you get when you do the wordle in two guesses. manchester united now in fourth. incredible human moments. talk about the bottom of the table enough, we don't talk about it, 21-year-old american striker, jeff sargeant. struggled and then unfurled this moment of impro viewization. look at that flair. i can't tell if this was goal of the year or the greatest single goal ever scored. american soccer gritty. the dude became a father for the first time 9 days ago. age 29. and the final whistle the nor rich crowd serenaded their new hero with chance of u.s.a., u.s.a., u.s.a. honestly, incredible. football has become one of america's most power tools in europe right now. in that moment, it was you be real. >> yeah, it really was. you look at the standings. liverpool has a game and a half. if they win that, they're 6 points back from city. still looks like it's cities to lose. poor west ham. they've had two heart breakers in a row, haven't they? >> they have. at the end of the day, which is true for excel balance sheets, joe, it is a league driven by money and for some there's only darkness on the edge of town. the fans of west ham, fans of everton, fans of buffalo take pleasure in the small things like aaron rodgers losing being owned by jimmy g. >> you say that as a chicago bears fan after he said the foul things he said to bears fans for elderly women. i thought you might enjoy watching aaron lose. >> jimmy g owns you. >> okay. roger bennett, thank you so much. it's great to see you. we're going to be watching men in blazers show featuring guest mark cuban now streaming on peacock. and as we mentioned, roger's also talking about the other football writing after the epic chiefs/bills game, this game we watched together single greatest i've ever written. arc of an epic poem. in days of your. tapestries will be woven. nothing unites us like sports. we go through what may have been the greatest nfl game of all time plus my conversation with quest love. i've got to say about summer of soul, i went in thinking i was going to be watching a music documentary. no. this is a documentary of music, culture, history and also a country and a dividing line in 1969. civil rights movement and a dividing line in 1969. so many extraordinary stories about the fifth dimension, about stevie wonder, about sly and the family stone. this is must see. we'll be right back. s must see we'll be right back. inner voice (kombucha brewer): i'm dramatically holding this bottle, so the light hits it just right, and people think... wow... ...he knows what he's doing... ...when i'm actually pretty lost with my payroll taxes. intuit quickbooks helps you manage your payroll taxes. cheers. 100% accurate payroll tax calculations guaranteed. this is the new world of work. each day looks different than the last. but whatever work becomes, the servicenow platform will make it just, flow. whether it's finding new ways to help you serve your customers, orchestrating a safe return to the office... wait. an office? what's an office? ...or solving a workplace challenge that's yet to come. wherever the new world of work takes your business, the world works with servicenow. welcome back to "morning joe." a live look at castle square in the old town in warsaw, poland. what a beautiful part of the city. it is monday, january 24th. good to have you with us. john phillip mayer and barnacle is with us. i'm in poland right now. it all centers around ukraine, the neighbor, and russia's attempts to bring that country back under its thumb. the kremlin shows signs of gearing up for a cross border incursion, threatening stability across the entire region. nato partners like here in poland are working to shore up a united front against moscow's aggression. the alliance says it is sending additional ships and fighter jets to the region and president biden is considering deploying several thousand u.s. troops and warships to the baltics and here to eastern europe. it can only be seen as a message to china as well as beijing continues its own pressure campaign against taiwan. joe, a lot of crosscurrents here. >> a lot of crosscurrents there. jonathan, it looks like the president of the united states continues to ramp up pressure on russia. he wanted to lay back. there is no doubt the white house seemed timid last week. they didn't want to do anything that triggered russia and i think they've figured out that actually they do have to try to match putin as much as they can as he increases the ante, they'll have to increase it as well or they'll be responding to an invasion soon. >> reporter: up until present days they focused on sanctions, delivering economic punishment to russia. those are still on the table. he met with his top national security advisers at camp david over the weekend. they have indicated, yes, they are considering doing warships, sending troops to the baltic states and we should have a decision later this week as to what to do there as they, indeed, try to ramp up the pressure against putin at the same time pulling out families of state department personnel from the embassies and -- embassy in kiev and looking to try to gain some unanimity from the european allies. so far there has not been much consensus. today nato also has more access to the region as well. >> the pressure keeps amping up. we have abigail spanburger here. she is on the committee that is following this most closely. we'll be talking to her soon. also, for those of you who didn't see the nfl games this weekend, we've been talking about it a little bit in the show so far. for those of you waking up in the west coast, missed the top of the 6, here's a look at the last-second drama you may have missed yesterday. >> mcfear son trying to king the bengals into the afc championship. harris the snapper. huber will hold it. 52 yarder sweeps it. mcphearson has got it. cincinnati wins! they're going to the afc championship game for the first time since 1988. >> kick was down the middle and good! 49ers win it. san francisco is moving on with a 13-10 win here at lambeau, and this crowd and that packers team is stunned. >> 30 yards to win the game. boots it through and the rams by the hair of their skinny teeth teeth. >> mahomes has hit his last eight. to the end zone for the win. he caught it! ball game! chiefs to the championship game. >> most enjoyable game in nfl football i've ever seen in my life. i've been watching this since i was 5 years old. let's bring in muk lupuka who's not allowed to complain about nfl rules until he first addresses the fact this was the most remarkable weekend in nfl history in the playoffs. mike, just back to back to back. i actually -- my favorite game even though last night was just extraordinary, my favorite game was ice bowl 3 at lambeau on saturday night. just all the makings of a classic. >> joe, three walk-off field goals so teams can advance and then walk-off touchdown in overtime and it's funny because the first weekend had been such a stinker in the nfl. it's the greatest weekend of pro football i've ever seen in my life that ended with a one-on-one game of basketball with josh allen and pat truck mahomes. the great thing about these games is you end up with so much to second guess about and like 13 seconds left the bills kick off but they kick it to the end zone instead of making them return and kick it. so mahomes got two plays instead of one before the field goal that send it into overtime. it was an extraordinary game and i just felt awful for josh allen who played the game of his life. who walked away from these playoffs with 9 touchdown passes and no interceptions and got turned into a spectator in overtime last night. >> you know, what was so unbelievable, here we are in the fourth quarter. josh allen on fourth and what, 13 and 14, throws a touchdown pass and they each drive in two touchdowns or two scores each from each team in the last two minutes. i'm just curious, if you look at their pure athleticism, the fact that allen can run, even throw. if you look at the fact that mahomes is just insane as a runner, a great thrower. have we ever seen two quarterbacks as good as these two quarterbacks facing off in a playoff game? >> running and passing, joe, i'm not sure we have. elway could run and pass, steve young could run and pass, but you bhach homes in the pocket and they somehow can't lay a glove on him. josh allen who has one of the great arms in the sport plays like a running back. i mean, those aren't option plays when he goes around end. those are running plays designed for him and he runs over people and he jumps over them. it's -- again, i felt awful for him last night because he played the game of his life and somebody else won. >> so, mike barnacle, let's talk about the intangibles. i said after aaron rodgers lost, he's 11 and 10. what makes the montanas and brady so special, at least they're going to keep it close. we've seen it time and time again. we've seen it with montana and brady. we saw it with mahomes and we saw it with josh allen. that's something we've just never seen with aaron rodgers. he just can't close the deal. >> well, yeah, no, he hasn't closed the deal. his record would prove that. the interesting thing about quarterbacks is per your discussion with lupuka, somehow over the past 5, 6, maybe 10 years, not just quarterbacks it's changed drastically. it's increased the athleticism of skilled positions especially like quarterback. me personally, i have never seen such skilled athleticism among quarterbacks than what we saw last night from josh allen and patrick mahomes. the way -- even the way they throw, they throw sidearm, over the ton, throw on the run. i've never seen a combination of such athletic skill in quarterbacks, two quarterbacks in the same field as we witnessed in last night's game. >> and, lupuka, josh allen, so big, so strong, so fast, so versatile that he escaped the pocket in the final 2 minutes in the game and unfortunately for kansas city chiefs corner, he tried to get this his way. josh allen just flattened him. that is something we're not used to seeing growing up watching the nfl games we've watched in the past. if you are even a linebacker, i mean, and josh allen's picking up a head of 1250e78, watch out. >> he's a tight end with a great arm, joe. that's the only way to describe him. in the open field you're in peril if he's coming right at you, and he did it again and again and again last night. but then when you see the throws he makes, running to his left, sidearm throws, the throws that mahomes makes, this was a level of quarterback play. there have been other great quarterback duels in nfl history. this produced 25 points in the last 1:50. i've never seen anything like it in my life. >> there have been extraordinary match-ups, staubach and bradshaw, a couple of super bowls. mike, thank you so much for being with us. we'll get you back. we'll talk about the worst rule in sports, which you have said time and again, is the extra time, added time, overtime rules in the nfl where they didn't even let josh allen touch the ball last night. ridiculous. mike's new novel co written with james patterson is the top of the charts, man. this thing is selling like hot cakes. it's "the horsewoman." you're going to want to pick it up and read it. it's extraordinary. now to you, mika. >> thank you, joe. more now on the fast-moving developments with russia and ukraine. this morning the state department is ordering the families of u.s. diplomats to leave kiev and warning americans not to travel to ukraine or to russia. nbc news correspondent kelly o'donnell is reporting on the options president biden is weighing. >> reporter: this morning president biden weighing a new military operation to counter vladimir putin and bolster nato allies in europe. at camp david saturday the president was briefed on potential u.s. troop and equipment movements to nato countries in eastern europe. administration officials say defense secretary austin on video conference laid out options for the president to act before or avni russian invasion of ukraine. a decision could come within days. >> we continue to build up other defense and deterrents that is necessary. >> and a new warning, americans in ukraine ordered home including families of embassy staff in kiev and a voluntary leaving of others. >> russia will pay a heavy price. >> reporter: great britain revealed its discovery to overthrow the democratically elected democratic president of ukraine and install a former ukraine official of moscow. the u.s. called that deeply concerning and put russia on notice. >> there is going to be a swift, a severe united response. >> while putin has moved more than 100,000 russian troops to ukraine's border, the u.s. has delivered $200 million of lethal military aid to ukraine and negotiations continue. lawmakers say sanctions should not wait. >> we do need to go ahead and impose sanctions on russia now. we need to show them that we mean business. >> joining us now, former cia caseworker and member of the house foreign affairs committee, abbey game spanburger of virginia. what are the options here in terms of deterrents or options at this point? it doesn't feel like mika, thane on. certainly i have the firsthand experience of the sort of information that flows into these discussions. on capitol hill we've had multiple classified briefings for the foreign affairs committee to discuss what we're seeing on the ground and what we're seeing on the ground and what options are presented before the president. at this point in time we are in a very challenging time for ukraine's history, for our history and certainly what we've seen in the last week as a united front. generally across the board of our western allies. nato engagement. the visit with the secretary of state blinken in germany last week and certainly with foreign minister lavrov are ongoing indications that we are working furiously. our members of the state department are working furiously to work on a diplomatic solution, to provide off ramps but certainly i think that we see that all options are certainly on the table for engaging to defend the ideals of democracy and ensure that vladimir putin's ideals of aggressive action to his neighbors are not something that western nations are going to take lightly or accept. >> good morning. it's john. as you just said, diplomatic channels still open and that's the preferred solution here. we know the president is considering sending troops to the region, warships to the region, nato doing the same. what is your analysis here as this moment in time in terms of whether that could just escalate tensions further with russia? and do you think the u.s. should respond even if russia moves in in what could be deemed as a minor incursion? >> i think any incursion into a sovereign country is an incursion. i was happy to see the president backtrack a bit and clarify that point and certainly jen psaki did the same. i think across the board any incursion into ukraine by russian troops, russian forces, that's an incursion. and so looking at what the options are as we are still working towards deterrents and our people are working for a strong diplomatic solution and off ramp, it is important the ukrainians can defend themselves. i support the assets necessary to do that and certainly we have seen the supply, as you mentioned, in the lead up of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of military assets to support them. in terms of our own military troops, that's another discussion but hopefully we are utilizing every single tool in the toolbox when it comes to sanctions, levying the swiftness, most aggressive sanctions against russians, russian oligarchs, certainly members of the russian government as if there is the rachetting up of tensions as is apparent. >> congresswoman, i want to ask you about a bill that you're putting out on the floor about trust. it's to stop some of the nonsense that i don't understand that occurs in congress now. we certainly saw the consequences of it for people briefed on covid and a lot of people made a lot of money on it with information they got from briefings. i never understood it when i was in congress a quarter of a century ago. why in the world should members of congress be able to use information that they get to do what in effect i consider to be insider trading? it's ridiculous. shouldn't all members of congress be banned from trading stocks while they're serving in congress? >> yes, yes, emphatic yes. and what you'll hear people say is, well, we have the stock act, which was put in place more than a decade ago. that bans insider trading. what i will say to that is we take votes that move markets. we receive briefings that provide us with information, whether it counts as insider trading or not, information that helps define what the market will look like, what tragedies, what positive things, negative things, certainly in the early days of the pandemic we were receiving briefings about the potential ramifications of this virus that we in january, february of 2020 only knew of was sort of percolating and making people sick in china, and we saw at that time members of the united states house and the united states senate buying stock in pharmaceutical companies, buying stock in clorox, buying stock in companies that we would come to realize really did very well in the time of the pandemic making sure that those members of congress did well at the time. what is worse is the american public said, yeah, okay, that's what they do. that's what they do. of course they're serving their own financial interests. what i have said to my colleagues who don't see the need for this bill or who have come to me, i am wholly ethical, i am not corrupt, why are you trying to push this bill? i said, it doesn't matter what your actions actually are, what your intentions actually are. when the american people are saying that they don't trust members of congress because they think that we might be putting our own interests before theirs, that is the time for us to take affirmative action. that is the time for us to say, you know what, here is a way that i can help just a bit regain the trust of the american people. members of congress should not be able to sell or buy or trade individual stocks nor should their spouses nor should their dependent children. it's a very straightforward way to ensure that we can take that action to regain a bit of trust and never see another news article about this member of congress buying this or selling that. >> yeah, i mean, it's very straightforward. whether members consider themselves to be ethical or not, they are putting themselves into a situation where there is an ethical conflict. per se on its face if you're a member of congress and you vote on issues that move the economy and you have stocks, it's a conflict of interest. congresswoman abigail spanberger, appreciate it. it's the trust in congress act. i hope everybody watching will call their members of congress, call the white house and support this really importantle legislation. appreciate you being here. still ahead, encouraging signs in the fight against covid that u.s. health officials say it's too soon for america to let its guard down. front row seat to an iconic collection of musical performances. 1969 summer of soul documentary. i sat down with him for a wide-ranging look at this historic project. that's just ahead on "morning joe." that's just ahead on "morning e.jo nchlines, he takes robitussin naturals powered by 100% drug-free ingredients. are you gonna leaf me hanging? soothe your cough naturally. entresto is the number one heart failure brand prescribed by cardiologists and has helped over one million people. it was proven superior at helping people stay alive and out of the hospital. don't take entresto if 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there is still plenty of conflict over how to keep the pandemic in check. nbc's miguel almaguer reports. >> reporter: this morning the battle over vaccines playing out in the nation's capitol. on sunday crowds of demonstrators led by speakers including robert f. kennedy jr. marched from the washington monument to the lincoln memorial in an effort to defeat the mandate. >> i feel like to make somebody make that decision is unjust. >> reporter: the rally comes days after a virginia woman was arrested after she appeared to threaten officials at a school board meeting over mask mandate. >> my child -- my children will not come to school on monday with a mask on, all right? that's not happening. and i will bring every single gun loaded and ready -- >> the nation's deep division comes as covid cases are finally starting to fall after weeks of skyrocketing case counts driven by omicron. the national average of daily new cases down 10% compared to a week ago. >> don't want to get over confident, but they are looking like they're going in the right direction now. >> in new york, once the nation's covid epicenter, the governor citing a 66% drop in just the last two weeks. >> this is extraordinary progress. >> but cases in southern and western states where omicron hit later continue to go up as hospitals are over run. in california the number of covid positive patients in intensive care has ballooned more than 60% in the last two weeks. in san diego the staff is exhausted. >> are you surprised that things are this bad? >> you know, i -- i want to say no, but deep down i was hoping we'd never be back. >> our thanks to miguel almaguer. coming up, we've heard a lot about covid impacting the cruise ship industry. there's new trouble for passengers in florida, but it's not because of the pandemic. instead, unpaid debts are to blame and we'll explain that just ahead. l explain that just ahead why do people who live with generalized myasthenia gravis want a new treatment 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panthers sitting up on the trees. >> i was nervous. i didn't expect a crowd like that. something very important was happening. it wasn't just about the music. >> 1969 was a change of era in the black community. >> the styles were changing. >> music was changing. >> and revolution was coming together. >> we are a new people. we are a beautiful people. >> that concert took my life from black and white into color. >> we wanted progress. we're black people and we should be proud of this. >> we were coming together to say this is our world and how beautiful. >> singing together. don't wait for your neighbors because your neighbor might be waiting for you. ♪♪ ♪♪ >> we believed in what we felt and hear so let's go. let's go do it. >> that was a look at the new documentary "summer of soul" about the 1969 harlem cultural festival. now it's a remarkable moment in history that most people, including huge music fans like me, don't know anything about. quest love, of course the drummer of the roots and the band leader for the "tonight show" starring jimmy fallon, is the creative force behind the documentary. he makes his debut as a filmmaker for this ground brooking work. where has this been our whole life? why haven't we seen it before you put it out? >> that was literally the question i had when i saw the footage. when i took the meeting with my two producers, i wasn't fully convinced that this happened because, you know, i googled a little bit. there was nothing to look at on the internet at that time in 2017. i called friends up, you heard of a blackwood stock or something like that, 300,000 people? that's almost the common denominator of everyone that we interviewed. >> right. >> and this thing was like finally people will believe me when i tell them this happened because no one -- this was -- this was the boogie man. might as well have been the boogie man. i realized instantly on that first day that this isn't me making a music film more than this is me restoring history which then brings on a whole new responsibility like it's often with black stories, the story's never correct or told at all and suddenly now this is my responsibility. so from the very beginning i was really nervous as a filmmaker on whether or not i should be responsible to tell these stories because this is a chance to tell history. >> you talk about history. i thought this was going to be a music documentary. i've seen a million music documentaries. you've seen a million music documentaries. what i actually thought by the end was if i could get a film and put it in a time capsule and try to explain what was going on in 1969, this would be a pretty remarkable film about a remarkable time. >> when i was showing this to friends of mine or their kids, showing them the gospel section and they were like gospel section, they would laugh like it was a cat video. i was like, ah, maybe i should have some context to let people know that screaming is a therapeutic thing for black people. we're just now talking about mental sort of dealing with mental trauma and dealing with the idea of going to therapy. we're just starting to have that conversation. i think for a lot of musicians and creatives, music was the only refuge and escape and i thought that was important to put into context. >> and music starts in the church. it started in church. >> that was therapy. >> for everything. there's a quote, i'm so glad you brought this up. reverend jackson said we didn't know anything about therapists, we don't know anything about lying on couches but we did know mahalia jackson. >> right. >> i felt that entire section to really be transcendent. it was extraordinary and the word that kept coming to my mind but also came to artists who we interviewed was joy. it was a bleak time, a tough time. that was such a joyful time. >> there were three goals with this film. one to let artists know despite what charles barkley says in the nike commercial, we are role models and we do -- when we have a platform, we should use it wisely. number two is when you see period pieces from this era, especially with civil rights, you never hear from the women's side. we always -- our speaking points are malcolm martin, motown, but never from the women. most importantly when you think of that women you think of the bloodshed, you think of the struggles, you think of the tears and the pain but i think black joy is also an extremely important part in telling our story. >> we talk about the church. the music coming from the church. one thing i didn't realize even though i loved the music and thought he was crazy and out of his mind, sly. >> what's weird about the sly story, this is the first time that black america is seeing a band wear their street clothes. >> right. it was like the temptations. that was a no-no. >> even before then motown made sure all of the artists crossed their ts, dotted their is, spoke proper english. shook hands, curtsied, bowed, all of those things. if you watch david ruffin in contrast, it's the middle of august and david ruffin haason a wool tuxedo even to the detriment of his own comfort. he has to be professional because he was taught, you've got to be professional first and not yourself. you must be professional. and sly's whole thing is like, i'm coming out in my street clothes. this moment changes their lives and it's really amazing to see how just being yourself can change -- can change yourself. he didn't feel the need to wear a tuxedo in the middle of august because it was unnecessary in the name of being nonthreatening. it speaks a lot of sly's existence. >> i remember looking at billy davis junior and marilyn macou's faces when they were looking back. gladys knight. you know, they all said the same thing, which somebody in the crowd had said that you interviewed. i never saw so many black people in one place, and gladys knight, she says she went out there. she said, oh, my god, the people. we heard that from one performer after another performer, that it was a life changing experience. >> like we take for granted now festivals, like there's coachella, there's all these festivals that we have. before the age of. >> lamar: -- lalapalooza, besides live aid and farm aid, we can talk about dylan going electric at newport, but really if it's not folk music, if you're a black performer, if you're motown you're doing the post vaudeville thing. barry gordon has all of the acts together. stevie, dye than, smokey. if you're james brown, a self-contained god that has his own singers, comedians, you can travel. it's a mirage version of the traveling tent. but for a lot of black performers, if they're touring. your madison square garden is the apollo or the regal in chicago or the uptown in philly or the howard in d.c., those four venues. if you're not doing those four, then you're playing the chitland circuit. someone's barnyard gets turned into a concert stage or someone's makeshift gas station. like the idea of doing a festival or playing more than 10,000 people is unbelievable for them. so for a lot of these acts, this is the first -- we see it now, oh, it's a festival like coachella, but that's the first time that you're really seeing of that magnitude. ten days before woodstock of people gathering in those record numbers. >> talk about the guy who put it altogether. >> tyler lawrence. >> he's up there and, you know, somebody says he's a hustler but he's a hustler of the best kind. he promised something to somebody he couldn't deliver, then he leveraged that off of somebody else. it almost sounded like, you know, somebody with a surrogate startup in silicon valley but he somehow got it together. >> i joked that when i first saw him, i joked that if uncut gems were about music and set 50 years earlier and done the right way, it would have been tony lawrence where you can go to stevie people, will you do it? stevie wonder said he'd do it, will you do it? sure. that's robbing peter to pay paul to get these acts to agree to it. but, yeah, he pretty much was a people person, and for me editing and cutting this film together, it finally hit me that this entire project is one leap of faith and me as a irs if-time director, tony lawrence as someone who had the nerve and the gumption to say, you know what, i bet you i can heal the community with music and heal big gathering them all together for this festival, like, who dreams that big? if anything, i would say, like, hey, get these acts to play the apollo theater and have at it, but he had bigger dreams, dreams that weren't even thought of. >> i think one of the things where you're talking about putting in context what was happening, i love the section about stevie playing on the day neil armstrong walked on the moon. >> right. >> because for 95% of america, 90% of america, it was, like, yeah, we beat the russians, like austin powers. we beat the russians. >> right. >> and in this case, stevie gets up and he's doing this extraordinary performance. by the way, i should have known stevie wonder was incredible on the drums as well but -- >> right. >> -- to see him the way he was, incredible. but actually what he talked about apollo 11, the audience booed. you put that into perspective. when we heard those boose, that was really the moment where we thought, okay, this might be much more than just putting 17 songs together and making a movie. we might have that context because i want to know where these boos are coming from. and sure enough, we found the footage, we accidentably got set the footage of the black reaction to the apollo mission, which is basically them saying, like, you know, that's cool and all, but we still have problems here on earth, and, you know, we still have joblessness, homelessness, and, you know, like, we need help down here. like, forget the moon. help us down here. >> as much as i studied history and was obsessed with music, there are so many new things that i learned and the back story, like, for instance, fifth dimension, what a crazy story about "age of aquarius." talk about this chance encounter. >> one of the things that was important, like not only the historical context and the political context, but also just one of the nerdy things, like creatively, you know, how do things happen. and there was a moment where billy davis gets out of the taxicab, leaves his wall net the cab and whoever gets in the cab after him gets the wallet, figures out that maybe the person came from this hotel that i'm staying at, and then they contact billy davis to say we have your wallet. and as a tradeoff, like, hey, thank you, come see us perform, we're at this place tonight. i think at the copa. and the producers -- not knowing they were the producers, the people that returned the wallet came to see the fifth dimension and they returned the favor and said we produce "hair," and that was red-hot at the time. >> billy davis is saying i've been trying to get in to see "hair." >> because nobody had ever seen people get naked on stage before. that was the big attraction. "hair" was the "hamilton" of its day. and singer ronnie dyson did an amazing version of "age of aquarius, let the sunshine in," and they instantly thought, like, we have to record that song. it's amazing. they called their producer up and they do it. at the time they're performing at the festival, "age of aquarius, let the sunshine in," is the number one song in the country. and in four months they'll win a grammy for it. so they are actually the biggest artists, you know, the artist of the day performing at the cultural festival. that went something, that even a-list artists are there performing. >> i'm watching this, i can hear that the fifth dimension's about to do "age of aquarius," and i say, wait a second? do they really want to do this? they're live and that's such a big sound. but, man, the first note, boom. ♪ aquarius, aquarius ♪ >> it was an extraordinary performance. >> yeah. there's a lot of technical marvel and even the sound of it, like the fact that only 15 microphones captured that stage and what you're listening to is essentially the rough mix. >> let's talk about it because technically this was a stripped-down and bare -- 15 microphones. you put 15 microphone os an drum set, right? >> yes. >> so they're explaining how this works. but they really have no crew to speak of, not a lot of microphones, absolutely no lighting. and the guy goes, we had to point the stage west so we'd get light from the sun. >> exactly. >> right. and yet you look at this -- i mean, i've seen woodstock like you i'm sure 100 times. this is more powerful than woodstock. the film, there's something so pure about this, it almost seems like a miracle that it came out as great as it did. >> i'll put it in perspective. so the first thing i did, after i saw that stevie wonder performance, first thing i did was called my engineer for the roots, and was, real quick, how many channels do we use for concert? he's like today? yeah. he's like 103. i showed him the footage and i was, like, dude, this is 15 channels. how is this able to happen? the fact that the bass player and the guitar player are sharing one microphone between their amps, and yet it's the most pristine, clearest sound ever almost to the point where when we tried to mix, took the tapes and tried to sweeten it up, it took the life out of it. i don't know how 15 microphones were able to capture that entire stage and for people to feel it the way they felt it. like imagine the gospel section where all those people were on stage and they have to figure out, like, to me, i don't know how that was able to happen, but, yeah, i'm absolutely influenced by it. >> this is a life-changing experience watching this for somebody who loves history but also loves mulzic. >> music. >> it is such a gift. appreciate it. >> appreciate it. >> watch "summer of soul" on hulu. searchlightpictures.com/summerof soul for more information. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage after a quick final break. e picks up the coverage after a quick final coverage after a quick final break. now, she can have her cake and eat it too. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn? with unitedhealthcare medicare advantage plans, there's so much to take advantage of. like $0 copays on virtual visits... - wow! - uh-huh. ...$0 copays on primary care visits... ...and lab tests. - wow. - uh-huh. plus, $0 copays on tier 1 & tier 2 prescription drugs. - wow. - uh-huh. unitedhealthcare medicare advantage plans. including the only plans with the aarp name. most plans have a $0 premium. take advantage now. wow! this is the new world of work. each day looks different than the last. but whatever work becomes, the servicenow platform will make it just, flow. whether it's finding new ways to help you serve your customers, orchestrating a safe return to the office... wait. an office? what's an office? ...or solving a workplace challenge that's yet to come. wherever the new world of work takes your business, the world works with servicenow. napoleon was born and raised to conquer. but he was just kind of over it, you know. watching prime video he realized he should follow his dreams. so he ordered a microphone with prime next day delivery. now the only thing he cared about conquering was his audience. prime changes everything. ♪ ♪making your way in the world today♪ ♪takes everything you've got♪ ♪ ♪taking a break from all your worries ♪ ♪sure would help a lot ♪ ♪wouldn't you like to get away? ♪ ♪ ♪ sometimes you want to go ♪ ♪where everybody knows your name ♪ ♪ ♪and they're always glad you came ♪ this morning president biden considering a standoff with russia over the ukraine. it is one of a number of options the president was given while meeting with his national security team at camp david, all with the goal of forcing putin to reverse course, a decision fromhe

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