had conversations with the former attorney general already. >> that's right, the chairman confirming that the committee has spoken to former trump attorney general bill barr, loyalist who made an abrupt and ugly exit after the 2020 election. what might he know about the trump efforts to overturn the results, efforts that reached a fever pitch on january 6th? in a moment, i'm going to talk to january 6th committee member congresswoman zoe lofgren about that, as well as where the committee is now and where they're headed in the investigation. plus, a new nbc poll shows major divisions in the country, but one thing that appears to unite almost everyone, fear that our very democracy is in danger. this time, the threat is from within, but democrats in congress say they're willing to continue to fight for it. >> i think there is widespread understanding of what we have done for the last six months has failed from the policy point of view, it has failed politically. we need to change course. we need to have the courage to take on the republicans and let manchin and sinema decide which side they are on. >> also this hour, following the minute-by-minute dwems in what many fear could be an imminent russia invasion of ukraine. today, new details about a putin plot to topple the freely elected ukrainian government. a plot that does not surprise the secretary of state. >> we have been concerned and had been warning about exactly these kind of tactics for weeks. and we have talked about that publicly, that russia would try to in some way topple or replace the government. this is very much part of the russian playbook. it's important that people look at the whole range of things that russia could and may be preparing to do in ukraine. >> coming up, we'll take a lookt a this major international test for president biden. but we begin with those breaking new developments in the january 6th investigation, and joining me now to discuss the latest on the probe is one of the january 6th committee members, democratic congresswoman from california, zoe lofgren, thank you so much, congresswoman, for joining us. the big headline today, chairman thompson says you have spoken to former attorney general barr. what more can you tell us about this conversation? was it a full interview or just preliminary discussions? >> well, let me just be clear that it was not a formal, you know, deposition. it's been some discussions that the attorneys on the staff have had with the former attorney general. and it was done on a voluntary basis. >> so anything under oath so far? do you have plans to bring him in for a deposition? >> well, i can't say that, obviously. the depositions are an alternative, but i think the staff attorneys feel that the current mode of information and discussion has been suitable. i think i can say that for them. >> would you say he's being coop cooperative so far? is that a good way to describe it? >> he's voluntarily agreed to have discussions and has had discussions with staff lawyers. obviously, there are a lot of things i didn't agree with, with the former attorney general. but he did make clear publicly that the claims of election fraud made by the former president were baseless. i think he used a different word. and left the administration. and he is, i'm sure, telling the honest truth of what he knows. and we appreciate it. there's also, you know, other news in that we're getting access to archive information, which will fill in some blank spots. we have got about 700 pages that were delivered and there's lots more to come. the chairman has been in discussion on how we might help expedite the delivery of all of the other information that we expect from the archives, with the archivists this weekend. >> let's talk more about the national archive documents that you're receiving. we know there are schedules, call logs, hand written notes from administration members like mark meadows. as you comb through them, what's standing out so far the most? >> well, some of the material that has been sent over is, you know, routine and not of particular note. some may be more important. as i mentioned, there is a lot more information that we expect in the days and weeks to come. not all of it documents. some of it would be, we believe, videos and other sorts of material. so we are, you know, poring through volumes and volumes of information. meanwhile, having depositions practically every work day, multiple depositions at the same time. the members of the committee are splitting up so we can cover multiple depositions at once. we're hard at work. >> have you seen this draft executive order about seizing voting machines that's been making headlines over the last few days? has that been part of the documents handed over and have you been able to see it for yourself yet? >> i think that was not intended to be released. and we're actually trying to figure out how it did slip out of the committee's grasp. but it is an alarming document. and it has been published by the press. >> there is incentive for the committee to keep a lot of the content from these archives secret. i think for the reason maybe you're talking about right now, in case witnesses change their testimony based on what's there. how important is keeping these documents secret? how much of it could be put out there public le? >> well, ultimately, everything is going to be public. we will have public hearings. we'll have release of documents. but at the investigative phase, it's usually a pretty good idea for the investigators not to lay everything out before the investigation is finished. so that's where we are now. you're right. witnesses who may be recalcitrant may not know what we have, and that might encourage them to approach the committee with greater honesty. >> does the leaking of this document worry you at all when it comes to information that's out there or when it comes to safety for the committee or any of your colleagues? >> well, it's of concern. and we're tightening up procedures to try and insure that doesn't happen again. >> so let's talk about witnesses, many uncooperative witnesses are challenging the house's authority. how much are you concerned about that? we know ivanka trump has been called on. a statement from her spokesperson said she never spoke at the january 6th rally, which is of course not why you want to speak with her. so do you think more needs to be done here when the number of those in the former president's inner circle refuse to comply? that number of people refusing to comply just keeps growing. >> well, i think, you know, when i read ms. trump's spokesman's statement, i thought she probably hasn't seen the letter we sent to ms. trump because the statement had nothing to do with the letter. i'm still hopeful that ivanka trump will come in to the committee. we'll see. you know, the high profile is when someone who is in the news refuses to come in. meanwhile, hundreds -- we have had more than 300 witnesses have come in. many from the trump administration, to tell us what they know, and we're putting the pieces together. obviously, we're not asking people to come in unless we think they have something of use to the investigation. and so we do hope that everyone we have requested or subpoenaed will come in and do their patriotic duty. help us get to the bottom of all of this. >> congresswoman, in that same letter of request to ivanka trump, the committee did mention president trump's january 6th video address to rioters and its outtakes. we'll put a portion of that letter on the screen right now. but do you think the national archive has those tapes, those outtakes, and in your mind, how important would this footage be for evidence? >> well, they should have the outtakes. we know that everyone in the white house was admonished by their legal staff of their obligation, their legal obligation to turn everything over to the national archives. so we hope that they complied with the law, with their responsibility under that law. if they did, the outtakes will be in the possession of the national archives, and we have asked for them. i think that will give us some insight into what was going on with the former president as the riot unfolded. we would also like to talk to his daughter about that. we have reports from others, general kellogg and others, that she was on more than one occasion, dispatched in to talk her father into making a statement to stop the riot. and that didn't happen for quite some time. so we're hopeful that they, the trump administration, complied with the requirements under the national records act, that this material is in the archives, and if so, we'll get it promptly. >> congresswoman, what does the final effort of this committee's work look like in your mind? is it a criminal referral? is it a report? walk us through at this point in the investigation where your mind is at as far as what the potential end result could be of your work. >> well, we're going to have public hearings to lay out to america what we found. and we hope to do that in a way that is credible and compelling. we will have an opportunity to lay out our proposals for legislative changes or administrative changes that might protect us further in the future. one of the things that's been in the news and ms. cheney and i in particular are working on are proposals related to the electoral count act and reforms that might be necessary. i'm personally thinking we need to take a look at the insurrection act, which the former president repeatedly threatened to use in ways that i think shocked many of us. so i think we should look at that. you know, in terms of criminal referral, unless you're the victim of the crime, for example, when mr. bannon refused to comply with our lawful subpoena, we did a referral to doj because we were the victim of his criminal activity, but other than that, the criminal referral doesn't have any particular legal weight. so i think the department of justice will see whatever evidence that we have. they may already have it or they may not. and we're just a legislative committee. we're not a prosecutorial body. so the prosecutors do their job. we do our job. >> so yeah, you're saying basically it's possible you may not make a criminal referral at all in this? >> i don't know, but if we do or not, it doesn't really matter. it has no legal weight. the department of justice files when they think a crime has been committed. they have the evidence they believe they can convict. and that should be the end of the story, not another branch telling them, here's something. they'll see what our report says. they'll see the evidence that we have. and make a decision one way or the other. >> congresswoman zoe lofgren, thanks so much for taking some time on this sunday to answer our questions. we do appreciate it. >> any time. and right now, we want to bring in our panel for more on this. joining me now, juanita tolliver, msnbc political analyst, and tara setmeyer. former gop communications director. thank you both. a lot to talk about. let's start with the barr news. juanita, what do you make of former attorney general barr's apparent cooperation? he was loyal to the president until it all seemed to end badly in december of 2020. how forthcoming would you expect him to be with this committee? >> i feel like former ag barr might be in cya mode, like covering himself and trying to communicate with the select committee at this point because the timing here is what it comes down to when the select committee reached out to him or started these conversations because we know with his resignation around the same time now this newly dropped draft executive order came out just days after that, it signals something to the select committee. what did you know, what were you running from? why did you finally step away from this administration with only a few weeks left in office? so going to barr as chairman thompson said, signals they're exploring all options to make sure that they have a clear picture because what we know is by calling in trump's allies and communicating with his allies in the select committee, not only are they trying to corroborate information from other witnesses that we know that 350 other people have testified before the select committee, but they're zeroing in on trump. that's something we heard from representative raskin just a few days ago, that this is the next major step, especially before they start their public hearings. because i think what they're getting at now is, we want to make sure at the highest levels of the trump administration that we have a clear picture of who should be held accountable and for what. and so expect more of these letters and more of these subpoenas to go out from the select committee as they get closer and closer to their primary target of trump. >> if there are any viewers who don't know what cya means, you can google it. tara, i'm going to ask you about the last point that was made by congresswoman lofgren, the fact she said maybe a criminal referral wouldn't have much weight. what did you make of that when you heard that? >> i mean, obviously, that's not what people want to hear. they want accountability. but she's being honest about the role that where she thinks the political capital is. a criminal referral, okay, but is that -- how long does that take? is that really going to get to the crux of the matter? not necessarily. i don't think that the january 6th committee should get bogged down in what the department of justice does or doesn't do. they need to continue to keep their heads down and focused on their mission, which is getting to the truth so that we can find out who is accountable for january 6th, who ordered this, who financed it, and what role did the president in the oval office and the people at the highest levels have in this. what we are now finding out more and more every day was literally an attempted coup to overturn the election. this is very serious stuff. and i don't know that the american people have completely grasped how close we came to losing this democracy on january 6th. it was minutes away, as far as the violence inside the capitol. there were multi-pronged approaches here to try to disrupt our free and fair election. and the peaceful transfer of power. if it wasn't for the brave acts of some officers including officer goodman, we don't know what could have happened with the mob and the vice president or mitt romney. now we also know there were attempts, whether it was the seizing of the idea of seizing voting machines, having the defense department involved in that, whether it was replacing the attorney general so they could have people that had power access the levers of power to do this. we do know that bill barr, you know, it says something when bill barr had enough and couldn't take it. okay. he was one of trump's biggest acolytes and biggest enablers. he said no way. we're finding out more and more now how close this came, and i don't think it's any shock to know that all of the threads will lead to donald trump in the oval office. >> juanita tolliver, tara setmeyer, thank you for helping us break it down. we appreciate it. still ahead, inevitable invasion? is there any way to halt the possibility of russian troops invading ukraine? some of our country's biggest allies seem reluctant to step in. plus -- >> i knew it was a scam. and i have hung up on these guys a million times. i don't know why i started playing this game with this guy. >> a scam artist meets his match in a long island grandma. see how she helped police take him down after he attempted to rip her off. ♪ i see them bloom ♪ ♪ for me and you ♪ ♪ and i think to myself ♪ ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ a rich life is about more than just money. that's why at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner so you can build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner. vanguard. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ with chase security features, guidance and convenience, banking feels good. chase. make more of what's yours. the world is watching the tense standoff on the ukrainian border to see what vladimir putin's next move will be. tens of thousands of russian troops are now gathered just feet away from the ukrainian border ready to invade should putin give the order. in an unusual move, the british government issued a statement late last night saying the kremlin is planning to install yevgeny marayev, a former ukrainian parliament member as the new ukrainian president. this morning on "meet the press," secretary of state blinken did not deny the report. >> we have been concerned and had been warning about exactly these kind of tactics for weeks. and we talked about that publicly. that russia would try to in some way topple or replace the government. just a few days ago, we sanctioned four russian agent in ukraine engaged in destabilizing activities. this is very much a part of the russian playbook. it's important that people look at the whole range of things russia is preparing to and maybe would do in ukraine. >> let's talk more about this with the editor in chief for foreign policy and evelyn farkas, a former deputy assistant secretary of defense and more senior adviser to the supreme commander in europe. this report from britain about the kremlin planning a takeover, they say they released it to let putin know his plot was not a secret. putin, of course, denies the report, but what do we know about its validity and about the deman possibly chosen by the kremlin to lead ukraine? >> as we just heard, secretary blinken saying that the intelligence jives with what the u.s. has. it comes from the alliance of which new zealand and canada are also a part, but there's little evidence in the report provided by the uk foreign office. they say the man who you just mentioned would potentially be selected as a leader of a pro-kremlin puppet government in the event of russia being able to install a new government. he is the head of a political party. he's long been opposed to ukraine's pro-western parties. he's accused kiev, of course, of selling out to the united states. so his sympathy is fairly obvious in this case. there were four other ukrainians who were cited in this report. all of whom fled ukraine for russia in 2014. so that's about as much a we know, but it's sort of all of a point from the intelligence we're seeing from the west, essentially, about more sort of data points suggesting that russia is indeed trying a variety of means at its disposal to destabilize ukraine and potentially attack it. >> evelyn, i want to ask you more about the western response. nato allies continue to say they stand shoulder to shoulder with the u.s. here. this morning on sky news, the uk deputy prime minister said this when asked if the uk was willing to send troops to ukraine. >> i think it's extremely unlike we would do that, but what we have said is that we are already willing and engaged in training programs to support the ukrainians defending themselves. that's absolutely right for defensive purposes. secondly, as i made clear, we want to make sure that the economic cost to the kremlin of doing so is sufficiently severe that they think twice. >> so evelyn, in your mind, is that shoulder to shoulder? >> well, joe, i think it is. i think what he's saying there is we're not going to send nato forces, british forces to the front lines to fight the russians directly. but indirectly, we're going to continue doing what we have been doing, that is the alliance, training ukrainians, on ukrainian territory. that's what we have been doing all along in the west. and assuming that putin doesn't seize the whole country, we can continue to do that. and in addition to that, the nato alliance of members and the alliance itself are helping arm ukraine. and that's ongoing. and in fact, we have seen that the administration, the u.s. administration and the british government willing to continue, not just continue but to ratchet up the amount of arms being sent to ukraine as part of deterrence, which is something i think that is very important. we need to make sure that we take the initiative away from putin. we haven't completely succeeded in doing that, but at least we're not letting him get away with escalating without a counterresponse. >> ravi, germany is also not offering military support. just this morning, leaders said they would supply medical support only. this comes a day after the head of the german navy resigned after saying ukraine will never regain control of crimea and putin deserves respect. what's going on with germany right now? >> good question. i mean, i think by and large, germany is displaying its reluctance to get too involved. germany, of course, because of its history, and it always points to its history, doesn't want to be seen as being too forward, too adventurous, ahead of the curve. in this case, it is not. not only is it refusing to arm ukraine. it's also not allowing countries like estonia to send their weapons which are german origin, to ukraine, which estonia has protested about. so in part, this is germany's historical hesitance to get involved in europe too much. given, of course, its history. i think amid all this, it's important to see that one of the things that putin wants out of all of this is to sow division in europe, so the fact that the uk may be seen as going out ahead of other european countries, the fact that germany is reluctant earlier in the week, of course, we saw that president biden opened a window of uncertainty where he said that the u.s. may not respond if there's an incursion, but would if there was an invasion. boris johnson then sort of covered up for that. and then amid all of that, you have president macron in france saying that, you know, perhaps europe needs to go it alone and not rely so much on the united states. so it is exactly divisions like this that president putin is trying to sow and reap. >> evelyn, we have talked about all these other countries. let's talk about america. in your mind, how well is president biden handling this? >> i think he's handling it exceedingly well. which doesn't mean i don't think he could do more. look, so far, putin hasn't made a move, so i guess he's deterred. i would like to see a more public statement about some of the sanctions maybe that we have agreed to with the europeans. i would like to see the europeans talk about them. the u.s. government has leveled some additional sanctions. you mentioned earlier on those individuals who were basically going in ready to seize power in ukraine at the bidding of moscow. in addition to that, i think we really need to ratchet up military assistance to the ukrainians and frankly speaking, i think nato as an alliance needs to respond to this new deployment of forces in belarus, because that's right on the nato border with poland, lithuania, and latvia. i don't think that should go unanswered. anything else we can do to seize the initiative from putin, release some more information about his corruption. you know, do something else, again, to kind of seize the initiative. so there are things we can do in other parts of the world, for example. i would be very interested in seeing the administration do that rather than kind of waiting to see whether putin is going to invade in a small way or a large way, in a covert way or a conventional way. >> evelyn farkas and ravi agrawal, thank you for joining us. we appreciate it. coming up, with another failed effort in the senate, what's next in the fight for voting rights? >> the majority of americans will rise up in the same way they did after the killing of george floyd that everyday americans around this country will rise up and will say, this cannot stand. >> congresswoman stacey plaskett this morning pushing a grassroots effort. up next, the ceo of the grassroots organization, the new georgia project, joins me to talk about the battle ahead. new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today. are you one of the millions of americans who experience occasional bloating, gas, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. or abdominal discomfort? taking align can help. align contains a quality probiotic to naturally help soothe digestive upsets 24/7. try align, the pros in digestive health. ♪ my name is monique, i'm 41, and i'm a federal contract investigator. as a single parent, i would run from football games to work and trying to balance it all. so, what do you see when you look at yourself? 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at new chapter, of serious side effects its' innovation, organic ingredients, and fermentation. fermentation? yes. formulated to help you body really truly absorb the natural goodness. new chapter. wellness, well done. understanding what we have done for the last six months has failed, from the policy point of view. it has failed politically. we need to change course. we need to have the courage to take on the republicans. and let manchin and sinema decide which side they are on. >> senator bernie sanders in just one of many democrats still processing the failure of last week's filibuster vote, following a tight vote of just 52-48, republicans successfully defeated democrats' efforts to end the filibuster. they also blocked president biden's historic federal voting rights legislation, all with help from senators kyrsten sinema andio manchin, who crossed party lines to defeat their colleagues' effort. their decision drew condemnation from a number of voting rights organizations including the new georgia project, which issued this scathing statement. the gop proved once again that they are only interested in preserving and protecting an america that upholded a white supremacist status quo with the rights of millions, especially black and brown folks, are eroded or outright stolen. and they did not do it alone. two so-called democrats, kyrsten sinema and joe manchin, stood with them. with me now to discuss this is nse ufot, ceo of the new georgia project. what is your overall reaction to the filibuster vote and this failure to pass the federal voting rights legislation? >> listen, so first of all, thank you for having me. i think secondly, we are in this moment that we're in because the new georgia project has helped over 600,000 young people and people of color register to vote in all 159 of georgia's counties. and the way that we have done that is by always moving in integrity and not lying about the conditions on the ground, having clarity about our agenda, and what it is that we're fighting for. and when we look at the failed vote to suspend the filibuster, the rules change vote, again, what we saw were two democratic senators who stood with the republican criminal caucus to deny a path forward for critical voting rights legislation. there have been over 400 anti-voting bills introduced in 49 of 50 states. they passed in 19 states. and so when -- and i completely agree with senator sanders. if you're looking at this from a policy perspective, right, that not only did -- there was no vote for the voting rights bills that we're looking for, but build back better has failed, immigration reform has failed. and if you're looking at it politically, we are all looking at november. it's on all of our calendars. and when we look at the 19 states, like georgia, where republicans have given themselves the tools to overcome the results of elections that they don't like, we are in trouble. and so this is not a time to mince words. this is not a time to pull punches. this is a time for us to be extraordinarily and exceedingly clear about what is happening, because they say you cannot fix what you have not faced. >> senators sinema and manchin have been roundly criticized by democrats for their support of the filibuster. we heard your criticism there. how much do you feel the blame is theirs? how much do you think does rest with the president, president biden, for not getting this through so far? >> i mean, let's be clear. there is a rule, that's why we have the separation of powers. i think the are lots of things the president can, has, and will continue to do to communicate his forceful vocal support for voting rights. but yeah, they had a vote. this was an opportunity to count noses. this was an opportunity to communicate to your constituents and to the american people what you are willing to do in the face of this constitutional crisis, in the face of these attacks on our elections. and they boldly and publicly decided to align with the criminal caucus of the republican party. mitch mcconnell and the the rest of the senators have completely abandoned governance. they're not interesting in governing in this moment. they have become the party of no, so i think it's really, really important that we, a, make sure that we are not passing blame to people who are not responsible for breaking our election system. and doing what we can to flank those who are working to fix it. >> nsy u fought, thank you for your time. we appreciate it. >> coming up, mcgruber makes his triumphant return to saturday night live. >> ten seconds. >> we may not all agree on this hoax vaccine, but one thing we can agree on is i do know how to diffuse bumps. >> one second. that's why i use the freestyle libre 2 system. with a painless, one-second scan i know my glucose numbers without fingersticks. now i'm managing my diabetes better and i've lowered my a1c from 8.2 to 6.7. take the mystery out of managing your diabetes and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free at freestylelibre.us once upon a time, at the magical everly estate, landscaper larry and his trusty crew... were delayed when the new kid totaled his truck. timber... fortunately, they were covered by progressive, so it was a happy ending... for almost everyone. former snl cast member will forte was back to host the show last night, and he brought with him one of his most well known characters, macgruber. a parody of the old macgyver tv series. given the times we're in, this was a very different macgruber. >> god, you're so brain washed. >> i'm cere, in what way? >> just look at how you're dressed? . >> for give me for not shopping at sheeps are us like you. my body my choice for men, and suppress voting rights for alternatively skinned people. i'm not sure how that makes me brain washed. >> macgruber, focus, please. >> you're right. vicky, hand me all that remains of america's soul. >> what? there's nothing there. >> welcome to the real world. just a shaman. >> 15 seconds. >> all i can do is pray for you, take up arms against you, and keep the oath i took to protect this country. because i am an oath keeper. and boy, am i proud of that. which i guess makes me a proud boy. >> do you even understand what you're saying right now? >> probably not. >> if we don't deal with this bomb, we're going to explode. >> hoax. >> five second. >> according to cnn. >> four seconds. >> cancel culture. >> not my clock. hollywood elite. >> one second. >> i do kind of like some streamers on peacock. streamers on peacock new vicks vapostick. strong soothing vapors... help comfort your loved ones. for chest, neck, and back. it goes on clear. no mess just soothing comfort. try new vicks vapostick. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ the house january 6th committee's investigation is heating up with new subpoenas this week for far right activist nick fuentes and patrick casey. the committee says public records show they both received tens of thousands of dollars in bitcoin from a french computer programmer. the committee also says the fbi is investigating whether those funds were linked to the capitol insurrection. joining me now is johan jones, writer for the read out blog who wrote all this and more for msnbc.com. these are some stunning revelations that are happening here from the committee and the alleged donor died by suicide shortly after these payments were made. what more can you tell us about this? >> joe, thank you again for having me. the january 6th committee is trying to investigate why fuentes and casey received two large payments from, again, a now deceased french national toward the end of 2020. at this time, they were hosting or participating in a number of anti-democratic rallies designed to perpetuate donald to perpetuate donald trump's lie about having won the 2020 election. fuentes in particular was encouraging extremists to get more ferrell or more wild in tactics to get republicans to go along with their scheme to overturn the 2020 election. so the january 6th committee is interested in pulling out that thread and hopefully potentially showing that this event, this act that many conservatives like to suggest was an aimless act was actually more coordinated than we previously thought. >> how much do we know about funding for the january 6th insurrection? >> well, i mean, that is what the january 6th committee is hoping to get at the heart of. we know in this instance that the two extremists received the money, we know that the programmer had a history of donating to extremists around the world, not even in the united states. so it's just a matter at this point of determining whether those payments were part of a coordinated effort by foreign nationals to help sow doubt and dis unity in the united states. >> you write about a, quote, rolling coup of gop lawmakers receiving corporate donations, despite standing in the way of voting rights. why isn't this getting more attention, do you think? >> well, i think it really comes down to a matter of how we determine culpability or responsibility. in this case, the corporations that i'm accusing of participating in a rolling coup might not have donated directly to extremists, but they were donating to republicans who at this very moment continue to block voter protections and stand idle while suppressions are passed in their states. this comes from a watchdog group that holds groups to accounts. republican senators rick scott -- pardon me, ted cruz and john cornyn in texas, marco rubio and rick scott in florida, and tony ernst in iowa, who received thousands of dollars from some very popular companies in america while they were standing in the way of voting rights, and as i say, contributing to america's democratic backsliding. we know it's very unlikely that the senate will pass voter protection measures and one of the levers people have is their purchasing power. they can hold companies to account when they continue to support those who are undermining american democracy, and i suggest that they should. >> thank you for taking some time to talk about your writings. we appreciate it. up next, a grandpa takes down a scam artist. >> grandma one, bad guy zero. >> the 73-year-old says she played stupid and turned the tables on the fraudster. we'll be right back with this great story. coming up tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern, could senator kyrsten sinema be facing backlash from her party. i'll talk with a potential challenger about the future of arizona and american politics. watch it tonight at 8:00 eastern here on msnbc. t 8:00 eastern t 8:00 eastern here on msnbc. >> are you ready to start a great career? 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[♪♪] if you have diabetes, it's important to have confidence in the nutritional drink you choose. try boost glucose control®. it's clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels and contains high quality protein to help manage hunger and support muscle health. try boost® today. scammers have targeted seniors in record number during the pandemic and earned a pretty penny doing it. they may think twice after hearing what one new york grandma dealt with her scam artist. >> reporter: this is the moment when a scam artist met his match. police in new york tackling a fraudster who had tried to cheat a woman out of thousands. he might not have expected her to expose him. >> i hung up on these guys a million times. i don't know why. >> they demanded she pay $8,000 to bail out one of her grandsons. a former 911 dispatcher called the police. when the suspected conman showed up to get the cash, she handed him an envelope filled with paper towels. police apprehended the man. even the cops had to tip their hats. >> it was dramatic and i think the county is going to deputize here. >> during the pandemic, scams against seniors are on the rise. >> you need to tell us what jail he's in. >> reporter: the complaint center received nearly 800,000 complaints in 2020, with losses exceeding $4.1 billion. about 28% were from people over 60. >> our seniors are usually very trusting, polite, not likely to say no, and these are the exact characteristics these criminal organizations are looking to argument. >> reporter: because seniors have a lot to lose. >> when older seniors are targeted they lose so much more money because they have a lifetime of savings. they're sitting on money and scammers know it. >> reporter: but even if people like jean make good targets, they won't go down without a fight. matt bradley, nbc news. >> don't mess with grandma jean. that wraps it up for this hour. i turn it over to reverend al sharpton and "politics nation." good evening, and welcome to "politics nation." tonight's lead, the people and the president. right now i'm preparing to charge, because a real battle has opened up in 2022, and it increasingly appears that we cannot rely on our political discourse as we've known it. our senate's inability to pass popular basic voting rights protections at a time when it is under historic nationalized attack means that we must bypass that mechanism for now, and i mean we the people. and president joe biden, who i hope is thinking