good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, january 12th. good to have you all with us. we have the host of msnbc's "poitics nation" and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. he's the author of the new book, "righteous troublemakers." >> that's a great one right there, willie geist. >> it is. >> that's a great one. >> i travel with my copy. >> me, too. >> if you have the electronic books, you can carry it in your ipod. you can do that. >> good advertising if they have the book. >> talking about traveling with it. >> you want me to hold this up or that up? >> oh, my. okay, the book is out now. you can get a copy. also with us, nbc news national affairs analyst and executive editor of "the recount" and the host of "the hell and high water" podcast, john heilemann. also with us, msnbc contributor, best-selling author of "the confidence code" series, katty kay. we need confidence today. we're going to be dealing with double tired joe and triple tired willie. >> what do you mean? >> lord almighty. john heilemann is here. you guys were a mess yesterday, and it was hard to watch sometimes. you were so exhausted. >> there was a little bit of a kind of loose kind of improv improvizational, janky feel to the show yesterday. >> that's what i like to see. >> like jazz, actually. >> jazz? >> i am awake. we're going to talk about this fauci smackdown. first, i have to say, i'm very confused. reverend al, you were there yesterday. you can help us out. i'm confused on several fronts. >> uh-oh. >> oh boy. >> life in general. what am i if not a dumb country lawyer. i fell off my turnip truck, and i looked at the news. i was standing outside the wool worth and looking at the tvs on the avenue. i don't understand a couple things. first of all, willie, i'll start with you, i don't understand if you're president of the united states, you're trying to get people to your side, why you compare them to jefferson davis. now, i'm new to the game here. i'm new to the game, but that's part one on especially when you just need -- what are you doing? what are you doing? >> getting my shirt buttoned. >> do you think people can't hear that across the plains? >> trying to get the shirt buttoned. >> dress before you come on set. >> getting my button. you give me a hard time? >> tell them to cut your mic. okay. cut that and post. three, two, one. welcome to "morning joe." i'm joe. dumb country lawyer. willie, i don't understand yesterday. he was talking about jefferson davis. bull connor. all this other stuff. the president of the united states, if he is trying to get joe manchin and kyrsten sinema on his side, i can think of somebody else. are you shuffling the newspapers? who is? mika, cut it out. seriously, people listen to this show at home. >> what is wrong with joe this morning? >> we're going tomic everybody. >> oversensitive. >> off to a hot start. >> three, two, one. welcome to "morning joe." it's someday in january. i really don't know what day it is, but i think it's probably the first half of january. let's talk about what happened. >> the 12th. >> you're right. >> how many times do i get that right, heilemann? >> almost never. >> sometimes i ask what season it is. >> yeah. >> rev is wondering why he woke up so early this morning to come in and watch this. >> gets me going. >> it's like a train that's about to hit an airplane. you want to know if that guy is going to get pulled out of the airplane in time or not. >> they got him out. >> is he getting out this morning? >> i don't know. >> why is the train hitting the airplane? >> you missed the story. >> it was when we were being jangley, as you said. >> janky. >> when you're pulling people over to your side, is it better or worse to compare them to jefferson davis and bull connor? >> it's worse. certainly. the question is, what was the objective yesterday? why did the president of the united states go to atlanta, georgia? was he trying to get people on his side, speaking of joe manchin, kyrsten sinema, others, or was he trying to send a signal to progressives that, yes, i'm fighting on the issue, though it looks like a dead end, given what joe manchin said immediately afterwards. he said, i'm not for changing the rules. i don't know how many times you want me to say it. here's what president biden said in atlanta yesterday that joe is referring to. >> what do we choose, democracy over autocracy, light over shadows, justice over injustice? i know where i stand. i will not yield. i will not flinch. i will defend the right to vote. our democracy against all enemies, foreign and, yes, domestic. do you want to be the side of dr. king or george wallace? do you want to be on the side of john lewis or bull connor? do you want to be on the side of abraham lincoln or jefferson davis? >> can we check our answers really quickly? i had king, lewis, and lincoln. >> three for three. >> did you have those, too? >> three for three. >> so the question was, willie, why did he do that? what was his point? he was -- and i say this with love in my heart -- he was virtue signaling to activists who think it took him too listening to get there. i think he may have overshot the mark. >> rev, you were there. what did you read as the president's objective yesterday? if it is pretty clear, again, joe manchin has said it for months and months and months, "i'm not for changing the rules. i'm not for blowing up the filibuster. i may be for some other voting rights legislation, but let's get republicans on board." you can argue maybe that is a fool's errand in itself, but what was the president doing yesterday? was he speaking to joe manchin and kyrsten sinema and maybe chris coons and jon tester and some other people, in saying you're either bull connor or you're martin luther king? >> i think, first of all, i thought he was really dealing with many of us, me included, that's been on him, that he ought to be saying something when he didn't say something for a long time. secondly, i think he was leaving -- he literally had left the grave of martin luther king and came over and made the speech. >> right. >> i think he was dealing with the emotions of being with dr. king's sister, family. this man died fighting for this. the frustration is that he can't get people over there. i talked to him after the speech, and vice president harris. it was a speech i wanted to hear six months ago, but i thought it was a good speech. now, in this particular case, dealing with my friend and brother, joe, if he was trying to get votes, it was not the vote-getting speech. >> right. >> it was the -- i'm a minister. >> amen. >> when you get up, you try to persuade people of their sins and appeal to their better agents. but when they come to church and they still have the jug of whiskey up under the pew, you say, you're going to hell. i think he gave a you're going to hell speech. >> you don't do that in an amiss -- >> i think what he's really saying to them -- >> right. >> -- is that you can, on martin luther king week, go against a sitting democratic president and vote against this? he's pressing them to the wall, something all of us wanted to do. i may be sitting here monday morning saying it didn't work, but i think that he certainly preached to the choir yesterday. the choir said amen. >> i was going to say, that's the problem. if you get into church and you're delivering the hell, fire, and brimstone sermon, and you turn around and half of your choir is empty, you're supposed to be preaching to the choir in the church, bringing them together. i understand that. but half his choir was empty. it leads to the second question, where was everybody? if we are to believe that american democracy is at risk, and if we are to believe this is the fight to end all fights, why wasn't everybody there? >> everybody like who? >> stacey abrams. why was half the choir gone? why were civil rights groups saying, oh, this is too late, we're not going to show up? >> well, i think, also, that you've got to look at the fact that civil rights leaders, like andrew young and jesse jackson and martin luther king iii, people that made the day happen, were there. some of the activists that did not come said they felt it was a good speech. and i think that you cannot overlook the historic fact that you have the president of the united states, who said that i am one that believes in keeping the traditions of the senate. i am one that believes in upholding this. saying that this rises above and we must stay voting. i thought it was a great day, a great speech. i told him that, and i've been critical. >> i'm with rev. >> amen. >> would you like to tell us why, sister mika? >> because i don't think you should blame joe biden for that comparison. i mean, did joe biden set up that comparison, or did the forces in the republican party, who still bow to a racist, former president who lost the election but tried to steal it? like, for far too long, we have underestimated the threat to our democracy. >> right. >> and i think president biden, in the past week, has been trying to put it in stark terms. because it is the reality that these stark terms are needed. we're not sort of on the edge of something. we're in the middle of a fight for the soul of our democracy. i don't want to sound like a whiny left cable host. >> anybody think mika would ever do that? >> no. >> never. >> but i do think that sometimes it can be -- it can be overestimated or passionately spoken to the point where you're like, enough, enough. but the bottom line is, if you look at voting rights and you look at january 6th, there are realities that republicans are avoiding or walking away from, are turning their backs to, and they should. >> right. okay. john heilemann, let's just look at the matter at hand. >> yeah. >> it is the filibuster. there are democrats who run the senate. there are democrats that run the house. democrats run the white house. democrats have the power to change all of this. and you have two democrats who could make this all go away, do a special exemption like they did for the debt ceiling, and this would be over. so that's why i wouldn't be -- listen, legislatively, i learned something early on. i'm dumb. it takes me a while to figure things out, but you're constantly looking for friends. you're constantly looking for allies. bill clinton, actually, i saw with bill clinton, there's always the next vote. this isn't how you talk if you want people on your side for the next vote. couple things. one, the democrats can take care of this filibuster issue himself. he must have been talking to joe manchin and kyrsten sinema. secondly, on the republican side, i've, of course, been harshly critical of republicans for so many things, but on the filibuster, let us remember, it was donald trump that kept calling mitch mcconnell a wimp. kept telling mitch mcconnell to change the filibuster. kept telling him to stop being so weak to get rid of the filibuster. mcconnell didn't do it. he did it for the supreme court justices after harry reid did it for federal judges first, but he didn't do it. if the republican senate doesn't get rid of the filibuster rule and go to a simple majority, which the dems would do, they are just wasting time. and we could go through all of the donald trump attacks of mitch mcconnell. and so, again, i'm just saying, let's focus the fire where we need to focus the fire. >> oh, another one. >> on the democrats. it's one after another. >> it's been a little over a year since donald trump was banned from twitter, and we celebrate the notion he don't normally have to see these anymore. it's kind of great. i'm going, oh, takes us back to the bad old days. here's what i think. one, just quickly to dispense with this, though it is important, i think mika and rev are right, in the sense that, you know, if this is a speech for the history books on some level, and i'm sure if jon meacham, who had some role in the speech, would say it was in some ways, speaking to the substantive and moral moment is important for a president to do, number one. i don't think, actually, the comparisons, though harsh, are not wrong on the merits of how big this is and what the stakes are and how clear the dividing line is. second point -- >> wait, i have to hold you there. that's big. who is bull connor? >> anyone who undermined american democracy, anyone for restricting voting rights in the face of big lie. he was for subversion. bills across the country. republicans trying to change the bills, anyone can be compared so that. >> what about joe manchin and kyrsten sinema. >> let me get to that question. i want to try to answer that. i don't think he is talking to joe manchin and kyrsten sinema. i think the speech yesterday, having said what i said about substance, is the moment where the subtext of the speech is, i'm not going to win this fight. joe manchin is not going to move on the filibuster. kyrsten sinema is not going to move on the filibuster. we're not going to get that done. this was, i think, the subtext. we're going to go through the motions of this, but it's not going to happen. that's the political reality. joe manchin is not going to change. it's not going to work. you can dispute that analysis, but i think that is what the white house has concluded. they are now moving on. rev, i'll ask whether you think i'm right about this. i think it was also the moment where he said, i care about the midterms now. you can call it virtue signaling, or you could say, i know my base, especially my african-american base, is upset i didn't do more on this. the train left the station. i have midterm elections coming in november. >> laying down a marker. >> i need to speak to -- i've got catching up to do here because i've been criticized by rev and other african-american civil rights leaders. i have got to start right now making the strongest, fiercest case possible. again, let's not litigate the past, if i'm joe biden. going forward, i need these votes in november. >> what do you think? >> let me first address joe's point. who is bull connor here? i don't think he was saying joe manchin or kyrsten sinema was bull connor. >> oh, no. >> who was bull connor? was those who went in the capitol january 6th and did the same violence and decadent behavior that bull connor did. >> right. >> he's saying, are you on their side, or are you on this side? i think that he was giving them the opportunity to come forward this week and say, i'm on this side rather than that side. and i agree with john. he was laying down the marker. we have the song we sang when i was a kid growing up in the movement. which side are you on? i'm on this side. which side are you going to be on? >> right. >> that's the challenge. >> is that on the filibuster mainly? >> the fill buster and what it does. he carefully and surgically, joe, said, i'm not saying get rid of the filibuster. i'm saying, let's do what we can around the filibuster in terms of voting. i'm not changing the filibuster. and he says -- i'd like to see them get rid of the filibuster, but he says, i'm not advocating that. he said, in terms of voting, let's go around it. what we're going around it for, you must decide whether you're on this side or that side. because they are, right now -- he said this in his speech -- changing state laws. we're not talking theory here. 19 states have changed state laws. we've got to make a decision, and i've decided on with this side. >> again, what we've always focused on in those bills is them changing how they count the votes. who is counting the votes? the people they're kicking out of the rooms. the secretary of states. the regular election officials so state legislatures can decide whose votes get counted and whose votes do not get counted. so, yeah, and as we said before, and as we've said before here for some time, if they can change the rules to get around raising the debt ceiling, they can change the rules to protect voting rights. if yesterday was all about the midterms, well, this would be a good time to bring in the chairman of the democratic national committee, jaime harrison. thank you for being with us. a lot to talk about from yesterday's speech. how do you think the president did? >> well, i thought the president and the vice president were particularly strong yesterday, joe. they laid out the case. i think the rev just said it, as well. it's about choosing your side. how do you want history to record you in this great moment of ours at this point in time? joe, i was a young staffer on the hill in 2006 when the voting rights act was reauthorized. i'm old enough to remember that it was a republican president who was president of the united states in george w. bush. republicans controlled both the house and the senate. that legislation, which is very, very similar to what the john lewis voting rights act is, very similar, passed the house with 390 votes and passed the senate with 98 votes. and 16 republicans, and i'm not letting the republicans off the hook, 16 republicans who are currently in the minority in the united states senate, they all voted for it. from mcconnell to thune to cornyn to all of them. >> what are they voting for -- >> and -- >> jamie, i don't understand. how is it they could vote unanimously for this in 2006? we talk about this every day. how is it that they could vote unanimously for it in 2006, and 16 of them, as you pointed out, voted to extend the voting rights act in 2006. passed unanimously. now, you can't find a single one that'll do the same thing. >> it's because the republican party has transformed to the party of fear and fascism, joe. it is scary. we all should -- we should all make sure that we put it out there. it is scary. i never thought in my life -- and, you know, i've worked across the aisle, working with jim clyburn. i never thought in my life that i would see a january 6th and not see democrats and republicans lock arms together to say, "you know what, never again will we allow something like this to happen." but we've got republicans right now who have turned a blind eye to january 6th. oh, it was a regular tourist day. hell it was! i mean, i have friends, people who i love dearly, basically forming weapons out of scissors and fireplace pokers because they were fearful for their lives. you have republicans in the house and senate saying that that didn't happen? you see what's going on in each of these individual states, and you said it just now, that not only are they making it harder for people to register and sand stand in line, they're trying to take away the power to count people's legitimate votes. that's not america. that's russia. for us not to all stand up and say, "no, this will not happen," it's shameful. so history is going to record you. where do you stand at this moment? democrats, where do you stand? it's said all the weight is falling on the democratic party in order to protect american democracy, but people need to stand hell up. they need to stand up. >> i think everybody on this set, and just about everybody watching, would agree with you about january 6th. the question is, this legislation that democrats are trying to get through, that joe biden travelled to atlanta to get through, what does it do? what is the for the people act, and what does the john lewis voting act do for could wanting -- counting the votes? what can it do to hopefully recent another january 6th? >> in essence, it stops the local state governments and legislatures from tinkering with, you know, let's eliminate the secretary of states out of the process by which their constitutional obligations are in their state to count the votes, to authorize a vote. it eliminates these crazy things about having various other types of electors because the legislature is not happy with the result that the people in the state allowed. it opens up registration so that people can have automatic registration. to make it easier for americans just to exercise their right to vote. there's so many good things in here. and this is the one thing. you know, i often hear from democrats and republicans about the toxic nature of congress these days. and i've seen the transformation myself from the time that i was on capitol hill. and one of the ways that you change that, get rid of political gerrymandering. if you get rid of political gerrymandering, you will start to get people not from the extremes of all the parties but from all in the middle and from the left and from the right, so that you've got people who know how to work together. get rid of that. this bill does just that. so if you're tired, if you're a member of congress and you're tired of the way it's so toxic on the hill, pass the legislation and let's transform the types of people we send to congress. this is a really good bill. it is not a democratic bill, meaning it is going to benefit the democratic party. it's about strengthening american democracy. that's something all parties should want to do. >> chairman, the speech yesterday down in georgia by the president was a good speech. it was a strong speech. he hit all the points he needed to hihit, what voting rights advocates have asked him to say for months. he said he'd change the rules to get it through. are you frustrated he didn't give this speech ten months ago when his approval ratings were in the 60s? today, approval ratings are in the 40s. i couldn't help but think, is this going to change a single mind in the senate? if it doesn't change a mind in the senate, it hasn't achieved much, despite being a part of history? >> you know, speeches are really important. this speech was a really important marker for the president. but individual conversations are equally important. i've been on many fights. i've taken many bills to the floor when we didn't know whether or not we'd win them or lose them. it's about those conversations and the relationship. the things that i want this president to do is make sure that he's having those conversations with senator mansion, with senator sinema, to make sure they understand what is at stake here in terms of american democracy. those are the conversations that are really, really important. so, you know, we can battle overall, whether it should have happened then or there. the vote is going to happen, and we need to make sure that we put as much pressure as we can on our caucus and the republicans. we can't let them off here. to save american democracy. >> all right. dnc chairman jaime harrison, thank you so much. >> thank you, jaime. >> catkatty, was yesterday's sph a failure or success? >> democrats i reached out to during and after the speech said no. this doesn't change minds. this doesn't change manchin's mind. if others are having doubts, it doesn't change their minds either. >> it does seem, rev, like it was a marker. there is so much frustration in the democratic party because of, well, moderate to conservative senators, which is usually something you would celebrate. in west virginia and also in arizona. the fact that everything seems to be tied up by these two senators because they represent west virginia, a state that went for trump with 69%, and arizona which is traditionally a republican state. so that being the case, do you think at the end of the day this was a marker, that joe biden was just saying, i'm as mad as hell. i'm not going to take it anymore. i'm just as angry with you, and i want to get these people off the fence? >> i think it was a marker. i think he wanted to define in history where he was, and i think he did it well. so did vice president harris. and i think that he wanted, as he did that day, to say to them, you've got to decide which place you will be in history. this is where i am. the other thing, the political calculus, i think you're right. it does not change sinema or manchin's mind. >> yeah. >> but what it may be is turn out in other states which was going down, in terms of biden's base. he needs a turnout to keep people like raphael warnock who is in the senate in there, who has a race against herschel walker. the politics, while he may not have been able to change the minds of two senators, he needs to energize the minds of a lot of voters that turned out last year which have become frustrated his silence. >> john, it is interesting. a year ago, we were talking about biden possibly, as harry truman put a book out saying this is a good road map for truman, he worked with republicans to pass all these things. i think we've officially moved over to the give 'em hell harry stage. truman going into the midterms, actually in '48, his own re-election, started giving them hell, talking about the do-nothing republicans. i think it is interesting that he has spent -- his last two speeches have been speeches the likes of which we haven't seen since he's become president. he's in the give 'em hell harry mode. >> we are, i think we're in the mode. one of the most interesting questions, and i think it drives out of something you said a minute ago. if you think that there's this mass of things we talk about when we talk about the voting rights problem, and one is voter suppression. another is the thing you brought up, which is what a lot of us are most concerned about. nullification. what happens on the other side of election day? joe biden didn't talk about that yesterday. didn't mention it. didn't specifically mention it once. even if you think kyrsten sinema and joe manchin are not going to change the filibuster or do a carveout for voting rights, there is movement behind the scenes in the senate on the electoral count act. >> there is, yeah. >> so one of the questions, i think, about this speech is, as i said before, i agree. i think this is all about the midterms and about stacey abrams. the congressional midterms, gub thattory elections, progressives, african-american voters, i'm on your side, give 'em hell harry. the mistake that might have been made is not devoting at least part of the speech to emphasizing specifically that problem. trying to put some kind of -- maybe there is a strategy here i don't see now, but trying to work something. >> they've never done that. >> that tries to put some pressure on the senators. some are republicans. working on the electoral count act, which matters a lot if you care about electoral nullification. >> willie, it is a great frustration for people running campaigns on the democratic side. you talk about jim crow 2.0 for voting laws that basically takes us back to 2018. pre-pandemic voting laws in a lot of cases. you're not focusing on the real threat to american democracy, which is, republican state legislatures saying, we don't like how the votes were counted in the fairest, cleanest election in american history. we're going to decide how those votes are counted moving forward. time and again, we've asked people on this show. it's great. we understand, they're going back to pre-pandemic voting procedures. you wantdrop-bodrop-boxes. awesome. dig it. great. what about this part where they decide who counts the votes and how they count the votes after the votes have been cast. there's been this bizarre lack of focus. not just from the white house but the entire democratic party. >> that's not a theoretical conversation. that's under way already. there are people in place already in some of the states who can, if it weren't for a brad raffensperger, as long as we're talking about the state of georgia, republican. if it were a different person there, they could have, quote, found the 11,000 votes donald trump wanted him to find. we were a few single people away in a few states from having the election overturned, from having an election that was -- obviously, joe biden won -- but flipped by republicans endorsed by donald trump. that is happening and should be the focus. mika, about the president's speech, just to put a point on it, it has to have been about the midterms. it has to have been about energizing the base. because he is not convincing joe manchin. he is not convincing kyrsten sinema. we heard again yesterday from joe manchin saying there are rules changes we could make to make the senate work better. eliminating the filibuster is not the one to do it. he said for months he's not changing his mind, and the speech yesterday didn't do it. we have a lot more to talk about on this. a lot of questions to address. still ahead on "morning joe," chuck schumer is our guest. plus, the january 6th select committee subpoenas a pair of strategists said to have communicated with donald trump jr. about the rally that preceded the capitol attack. but what about rudy giuliani? also ahead, dr. anthony fauci passionately connects the attacks senator rand paul has levied against him to the death threats he and his family have endured. then senator paul fundraises off the moment. we'll show you that. more proof coronavirus vaccines protect from severe illness, even as u.s. hospitalizations hit a record high. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. we'll be right back. superpowers from a spider bite? i could use some help showing the world how liberty mutual customizes their car insurance. ow! i'm ok! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ only in theaters december 17th. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪3, 4♪ ♪ ♪ ♪hey♪ ♪ ♪are you ready for me♪ ♪are you ready♪ ♪are you ready♪ there's so much new in the new chicken & bacon ranch, but the clock is ticking, so we gotta hurry! there's new rotisserie-style chicken, new peppercorn ranch, new hickory-smoked bacon, new- did you just spike the footlong? sorry, i didn't want the delay of game. save big. order through the app. some of my best memories growing up, were cooking with mom. she always said, “food is love.” so when she moved in with us, a new kitchen became 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>> i'm assuming that's not the case. >> my financial disclosures are public knowledge and have been so. you are getting amazingly wrong information. >> so, what, i cannot find them. our office cannot find them. where would they be, if they're public knowledge, where? >> it is totally accessible to you if you want it. >> for the public, is it accessible to the public? >> to the public. >> great. we look forward to viewing do sh. >> you are totally incorrect. >> we're reviewing it. >> what a moron. jesus christ. >> seems like he should fire his staff, right? if they can't find fauci's disclosure forms on the web -- >> oh, they can. >> -- let's fire those people. >> they don't want to find them. >> what was heard on a hot mic during a senate hearing yesterday was fauci saying what he really thought about a republican senator, roger marshall of kansas. also in that hearing, and what has become a common occurrence, republican senator rand paul of kentucky grilled dr. fauci on his handling of the pandemic. at one point accuing him of stifling other medical opinions. >> central planning, whether it be of the economy or of science, is risky because of the fallibility of the planner. planner who believes he is the science leads to an arrogance that justifies, in his mind, using government resources to smear and destroy the reputations of other scientists. >> senator, you are distorting everything about me. the purpose of the committee was to try and get things out, how we can help to get the american public. and you keep coming back to personal attacks on me that have absolutely no relevance to reality. what happens when he gets out and accuses me of things that are completely untrue is that, all of a sudden, that kindles the crazies out there. and i have threats upon my life. december 21st, a person was arrested who was on their way from sacramento to washington, d.c., and the police asked where he was going. he was going to washington, d.c., to kill dr. fauci. and they found in his car an ar-15 and multiple magazines of ammunition. because he thinks that maybe i'm killing people. so i ask myself, why would senator want to do this? so go to rand paul website, and you see "fire dr. fauci," with a little box that says, "contribute here." you can do $5, $10, $20, $100. so you are making a catastrophic epidemic for your political gain. >> senator paul was fundraising off of it, sending out this email, urging supporters to, quote, fire fauci by donating today. you know, this isn't funny. i mean, this is sick. i don't think dr. fauci thought it was funny. i think what rand paul is doing is downright sick. >> they're all -- >> they're all sick. >> they're all grifters. >> joe, it is hard not to get extremely upset to see this happening. >> yeah. >> in a hearing at the capitol, where we are trying to run a country and keep people safe and have the best scientists be given a platform to help americans be safe. and this idiot is raising money off of defaming him. >> well -- >> constantly haranging him during these hearings. i mean, it's -- you know, it is very hard not to get upset and to be passionate about it. because we're trying to get through a pandemic, and you have these idiots, these blowhards, who make it some sort of conspiracy theory party for themselves. it's hard to watch. it must be very hard to be dr. fauci. >> well, hard to be a lot of people, actually, who have been the targets of these sort of attacks. dr. fauci one of them. but, again, it comes down, tend of the day, to people just being grifters. we're getting more and more evidence of that. more and more text messages are leaking, and people say one thing on television and say something else off television. on january 6th or as it pertains to this. you look at the fact that people are using this to raise money. they're using this to get votes. they're using this to get eyes, you know, more eyeballs on their primetime cable news shows. but you look. the election, the stop the steal, it's a $1 million industry. there's a great "washington post" article last week talking about how they've all turned against each other in the stop the steal community. you know, they've only got a limited market share and everybody is tearing in to try to get the money. i talked about the bakers last week. all of this we've seen in the age of trump, it's all, at the end of the day, incluing donald trump, who lived his life as a moderate democrat but realized he could grift off the republican party for votes and money, it is all a scheme. it's remarkable that you have the jim and tammy faye baker show that has been shifted over to american government, and it's been used to grift people. rand paul knows about it. he's certainly -- they all know better. dr. marshall knows better. they all know better. they know if they talk like that, they can send out a fundraising letter. ron desantis, the guy who, my god, florida has been a constant hot spot over the past couple years. he's constantly talking about firing dr. fauci. you know, you look at his background. he knows better. they all know better. >> right. >> but they use it to raise money. >> yup. look, of all the many ways in which -- and you eluded to this -- the ways we can talk about the republican party has become the trump party, not the grand old party, not the party of lincoln, is the notion that the big grift is at the center of it all. the great irony of the fact that online donations, the ability to do that in a seamless way, an easy way for people to put in a dollar or $5 or $10 is supposed to democratize the process and get more grassroots. on one side, grifters can easily pick the pockets of morons who look at this -- the reason i laughed, mika, was that you see -- i can't imagine how stupid you have to be to think that your $5 contribution will help fire dr. fauci. like, what world, what idiot looks at this and thinks, oh, yeah, that's a sensible use of my money. >> but -- >> okay for rand paul, but i'm going to give $10 and -- >> stop for a second. >> anyway -- >> if the cable news show you watch 24 hours a day is telling you that. >> i know. >> and your united states senator is telling you that. >> i know. >> and the president you voted for is telling you that. and at church, your sunday school class is telling you that. and you go to school and everybody at the school board meeting is telling you that wearing a mask n the middle of whatever is a -- if that is all you hear, suddenly, that becomes your reality, willie. >> of course. >> that is the echo system, the sort of eco-chamber that 40% of people live in, because of people like rand paul. >> last summer, rand paul said, it's time to resist. they can't arrest us all, these petty tyrants who want us to wear masks. we should defund schools. he wants schools to be closed to get through certain waves. that's the narrative. think of what senator marshall and many others said. dr. fauci is in this for the money. that he is running the nih in the middle of a pandemic trying to help guide us through this. you can criticize mistakes along the way with him and the cdc and others, but that he is in it for profit and that he is getting money from the development of vaccines. that is a narrative that has taken hold, and we saw it inside the united states senate. >> know where they got that from? >> tv? >> i have a family member that calls me every three months and says, you know, if we talk about fauci, oh, i wonder how much he is making off this new variant. i'll say to this person, you're talking about plan demic again. that was a lie. the lady was a scam artist. facebook finally, after spreading this lie, took it down. but that is, again, the lies. mika, the people making money off of it. again, we have the son of a member of congress. we all have trust fund babies. we all have people who graduated from harvard and yale and princeton and the naval academys and, you know, west point, stanford, all these elite institutions and all of these trust fund babies. all these people who inherited hundreds of millions of dollars, using that money, using their positions to scam, to scam working class americans. it's the great grift. we've been talking about the big lie. it's really the great grift. and you've got the elites in society, the trust fund babies, the people who went to ivy league schools, who are grifting off of working class americans who are struggling to pay their bills every month. >> and you can find the same track leading up to january 6th. by the way, senator chris murphy, who was in that hearing yesterday, is going to join us a little later in the show. we'll talk more about this. coming up, novak djokovic tries to clear up his ongoing covid controversy. >> you mean how he lied? okay. >> how he is explaining the mistakes made on a travel document that he used a week ago. >> how he lied. >> to enter australia. "morning joe" will be back. >> nice shot of him in serbia, spain, of him around the world. yes, i've been here for 14 days. >> mistakes were made. >> exactly. >> mistakes were made. >> exactly as america begins to reunite big oil executives saw a chance to make more money. they hiked up gas prices, right before the holiday season. sky-high gas prices for you meant record profits for them. 174 billion dollars. big oil executives took advantage of a recovering nation. just to make more money. it's time to tell big oil executives that their rigged game is over. america: it's time for clean energy. hey lily, i need a new wireless plan for my business, but all my employees need something different. oh, we can help with that. okay, imagine this. your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, like asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee. yeah i should've just led with that. with at&t business. you can pick the best plan for each employee and get the best deals on every smart phone. narrator: on a faraway beach, the generation called "our greatest" saved the world from tyranny. in an office we know as "oval," a new-generation president faced down an imminent threat of nuclear war. on a bridge in selma, alabama, the preacher of his time marched us straight to passing voting rights for every american. at a gate in west berlin, a late-generation american president demanded an enemy superpower tear down a wall and liberate a continent. american generations answering the call of their time with american ideals. freedom. liberty. justice. for today's generation of leaders, the call has come again to protect our freedom to vote, to fortify our democracy by passing the freedom to vote act and the john lewis voting rights act because america - john lewis: we are not going back, we are going forward. switching wireless carriers is easy with xfinity. just lean on our helpful switch squad john lewis: we are not going back, to help you save with xfinity mobile. they can help break up with your current carrier for you and transfer your info to your new phone. giving you a fast and easy experience that can save you hundreds a year on your wireless bill. visit your nearest xfinity store and see how the switch squad can help you switch and save. get $200 off a new eligible 5g phone when you switch to xfinity mobile. talk with our helpful switch squad at your local xfinity store today. rev, you like the analogy. we were talking about the great griffs in evangelical history. robert went to the top of the tower and said, give me $3 million or i'm not coming down. there were many more. >> and he got it. >> he got his 3 million dollars, . there was a shocking call from reverend jackson's mother. >> she loved i was on television, "politics nation," and all she watches is me and pat. this is real. so when you said ptl, it rang a bell from home for me. they have used these same models that tammy and -- >> jim and tammy faye baker, yeah. >> people used religious to griff people. that's what they're using in the republican party. i mean, you'd use jesus to hustle people, i guess you wouldn't mind using uncle sam. >> exactly what's happened. ptl club and so many other people use my grandmom's love of jesus to get her social security check every month. >> right. >> now, you have people that are using the love of country to spread conspiracy theories and lies, to whip them into a frenzy. willie and i were talking about, poor mika, somehow when she's on this text thing, where basically it divulves into, you gave money to donald trump, which she never did. you suck. i don't exaggerate belligerent, going to working class americans. you're getting the emails, too. >> i'm sure anybody working in the press or near politics gets them, too. they're incessant. there's always a crisis. my father -- don jr. will say, my father says you haven't given money lately. you better or not. you get the emails, click here, and you give money. where is the money going, by the way? who is getting the money? what is it directed to? a lot of it is to people like the ones you're describing, so they can pay legal bills for donald trump, private legal bills. the question is, what are the incentives that have been built into american politics? the craziest people in congress who we talk about on this show sometimes tend to be the one in the house who raises the most money. >> they're the ones raising the money, mika. >> well, yes, they are. we'll talk more about this coming up because we have senator majority leader chuck schumer as our guest. following president biden's most emphatic case yet on voting rights. will there be major league baseball this season? new developments in the labor dispute. "morning joe" is coming right back. "morning joe" is coming right "morning joe" is coming right back if you have this... consider adding this. an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. medicare sement plans help by paying some of what medicare doesn't... and let you see any doctor. any specialist. anywhere in the u.s. who accepts medicare patients. so if you have this... consider adding this. call unitedhealthcare today for your free decision guide. ♪ i have moderate to severe ulcerative colitis. so i'm taking zeposia, a once-daily pill. because i won't let uc stop me from being me. zeposia can help people with uc achieve and maintain remission. and it's the first and only s1p receptor modulator approved for uc. don't take zeposia if you've had a heart attack, chest pain, stroke or mini-stroke, heart failure in the last 6 months, irregular or abnormal heartbeat not corrected by a pacemaker, if you have untreated severe breathing problems during your sleep, or if you take medicines called maois. zeposia may cause serious side effects including infections that can be life-threatening and cause death, slow heart rate, liver or breathing problems, increased blood pressure, macular edema, and swelling and narrowing of the brain's blood vessels. though unlikely, a risk of pml--a rare, serious, potentially fatal brain infection--cannot be ruled out. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions, medications, or if you are or plan to become pregnant. if you can become pregnant, use birth control during treatment and for 3 months after you stop taking zeposia. don't let uc stop you from doing you. ask your doctor about once-daily zeposia. welcome to silversneakers. are you ready to get moving? (throws punch) our new virtual classes were designed for you and millions of seniors like you. you can now choose from thousands of live virtual classes every week. get moving wherever you have an internet connection. and when you're ready, enjoy access to thousands of locations nationwide. with silversneakers, you're free to move. enroll today at no additional cost by visiting getsilversneakers dot com. subway's eat fresh refresh™ has so many new footlongs. refresh! here's how they line up. we got the new chicken & bacon ranch, new baja steak & jack, and the new baja chicken & bacon, aka “the smokeshow”" save big. order through the app. throughout history i've observed markets shaped by the intentional and unforeseeable. for investors who can navigate this landscape, leveraging gold, a strategic and sustainable asset... the path is gilded with the potential for rich returns. i had no idea how much i wamy case was worth. c call the barnes firm to find out what your case could be worth. we will help get you the best result possible. ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ when a truck hit my car, ♪the insurance companyed, wasn't fair. eight million ♪ i didid't t kn whahatmy c caswa, so i called the barnes firm. i'm rich barnes. it's hard for people to k how much their accident case is worth.h barnes. t ouour juryry aorneneys hehelpou fresh off the college football title game in georgia's huge win over alabama. mvp stetson bennett is going us live. good morning, my friend. how you feeling this morning after that incredible performance last night? have you had a chance to get any sleep? >> you know, a few hours. not many. been wondering about -- yeah, no, not many, michael. >> that's georgia quarterback stetson bennett yesterday. that is an early morning appearance the day after he won the national title. >> basically like being on the show this morning. >> yeah. >> it's a news day. >> that guy made you look bright-eyed and bushy tailed. >> uh-huh. >> i don't know about that. i think this kid has a future in tv. >> in television? >> right? >> i would say two things. he just achieved his life-long dream, winning a title for georgia. he is of legal drinking age. i'm sure he had a big night the night before, so giving him a pass. >> congratulations to him. >> sure. >> i love the fact that he was -- i don't love that he was vis ra -- there was the alabama loss, with article after article of people trashing this young man. again, it's a game. get the you-know-what over it. don't ruin 18, 19, 20-year-old lives. these kids. then he came right back. i will tell you what, i thought alabama was going to win again. we were ahead in the fourth quarter. jonathan lemire, he showed class. he showed character. you know, i've got to say, we've beaten georgia. we've broken their hearts time and time again. i have to say, the cool thing about georgia, what they did, is -- and saban said it afterwards -- they took it to us in the fourth quarter. they just beat us. that's the way you win national championships. even as an alabama fan, i think that's pretty cool. if you're going to break a streak, break it winning the way georgia did in the fourth quarter. >> yeah. there were some calls even for the quarterback to be replaced after that alabama title game. he didn't play great. but he was good enough this week. he made really good throws, especially down the stretch. i think it is safe to say, stetson here, did not have to buy any drinks for himself that night after the national game. probably never will in the state of georgia again. >> probably not. al is with us talking about the state of georgia, not drinks. he was there yesterday. we'll get updates from him. you know, it is a shame, rev, that james brown never drank, smoke, or partook in any of that kind of thing. i'm sure people would have been around trying to buy him a drink or two. i do want to know, rev, i have to ask you this question, when are you going to write your book? let me tell you something, "righteous troublemakers," now available at local bookstores and amazon.com. instant classic. >> where's the chapter on the grandfather of soul? >> rev, next book, come on, baby, we will sell it. it'll be number one. your next book, you have to tell the behind the scenes stories about the godfather of soul, your time with james brown. >> he was like a father of me. there are many stories i can tell, and there are many stories i will never tell. there are fascinating stories that i will tell one day. there's not time yet. they can get this book about civil rights, people that never got their due. but i will tell some godfather stories one day. some stories i will hold until he and i see each other on the other side. >> okay. there you go. there you go. that is a friend until the end. katty kay, i'm seeing it on breaking news from bbc, and i love boris johnson. every day, every day, it is a different -- >> oh know. >> this is a runaway beer truck, and it is almost always careening off the cliff but he makes the turn. boris johnson is about to face british members of parliament, demanding to know if he broke covid rules and attended parties during the strict lockdown. i mean, that is a question that answers itself, doesn't it? >> prime minister's question time is coming up, so it is time for boris johnson to answer this question, finally. was he at the party that he is photographed being at, that he invited or his aide invited lots of other people to during the middle of a covid lockdown, when you were not meant to have more than six people there? they had 30 odd people for drinks in the garden. tried to pretend it was a business meeting. so far, nothing has shaken them. i wonder if this is a little different. we're going to speak about novak djokovic later. people want to know if we have suffered during covid and we have stuck to the rules, that the people that made those rules suffered and stuck to those rules, as well. they don't like the idea that some people get preferential treatment. that could be difficult for boris this time around. >> the end of the day, that's it. we've been talking about djokovic. the end of the day, and this really caused a recount out in california, when gavin newsom was living by different rules than other people were living by. it's like i said, if djokovic were in waco, texas, and was skirting the rules in waco, texas, that'd be one thing. people in texas aren't -- haven't been locked down the way they have been in australia. you can't let a superstar come into your country and live by a different set of rules after you locked your people down the last years. >> it is this sense of entitlement it radiates. the notion that these people, whether it's famous athletes or politicians, that they issue directives and edicts and then they don't live by them. i'm sure curious as to whether in the email invitation that katty referenced, about the johnson garden party, it said byob. i wonder if he'll claim it was bring your own business rather than booze. >> just now, boris johnson apologized. not clear whether he apologized for byob, but he apologized for attending this party during lockdowns when no one else was allowed. >> did he apologize for that, or did he apologize that he had to sit there and listen to their tart questions? he always gets away with things. >> he has to this point. >> the teflon prime minister. >> embattled prime minister? >> i don't think so. you have to actually give a damn to be embattled. looking at his hair, i don't think -- >> shamelessness to it. >> he's tied up the hair. >> what's that? >> okay. he is the only politician i have ever interview on television who just before the interview started actually messed his hair up. >> yes. >> rather than made it tidy. but this is a sign of how he knows he is in trouble. since christmas, we've seen a sharper looking boris johnson. the hair is tidier. the tie is tied. there isn't kind of food going down the shirt. >> come on. >> a sharper boris johnson? >> he is trying to look like he takes it seriously. >> okay. >> you know, when you can tell when i'm trying to take it more seriously. >> no food on the shirt? >> when i don't wear the same sweater for four months straight. remember those winters in. >> yeah. >> yes, we do. >> weeks worth of breakfasts scattered there. >> 2020. winter of 2021. >> is that the new hair? >> i like the old hair better, seriously. i like that hair. come on. >> okay. >> i have no idea. >> does he dye his hair, katty? >> i'm -- i have not asked him, so i have no inside information. however, i'm looking at the color of his hair. >> yeah? >> i'm thinking it's very touching, fetching color of yellow. >> it's not a color that really occurs in nature. >> he has lowlights, too. very good lowlights for a blonde. >> any man is welcome to dye their hair as much as any woman. >> heck, yeah. novak djokovic -- >> including you, heilemann. >> i can. >> i think he looks great. >> i can, and i will. >> i like that look. >> yes. >> djokovic admits he -- >> i feel like we're on the side of the road. let's push the car out of the ditch. >> yeah. >> get this thing going. >> yeah, the wheels will spinning. >> go ahead, mika. three, two, one. okay, we're live. three, two, one. america is number one. go ahead, mika. djokovic admits he knew he tested positive for covid-19 when he attended a newspaper interview and a photoshoot at his tennis center in serbia last month. the tennis star made the admission in a lengthy statement posted on his instagram account yesterday. in an effort to clarify, quote, ongoing misinformation about why he repeatedly appeared without a mask at public events after he believed he had been exposed to the virus. djokovic says he took rapid tests that were negative, and he was asymptomatic before he received a positive result from a pcr test he took out of an abundance of caution. after attending a basketball game in belgrade on december 14th, he says he received the positive pcr result on december 17th and scrapped all of his commitments. except for a longstanding interview and photoshoot. djokovic explained he felt obligated to conduct the interview but admitted the decision not to reschedule was an error of judgment. djokovic also blamed the human error by his support team. >> of course, blame the support team. >> for the travel document that he used a week ago to enter australia. where his visa was revoked and then reinstated. >> we're going way too deep into this. >> listen. >> this guy lied. >> know what he sounds like? this story, which is, i got negative tests back until i suddenly eventually, out of an abundance of caution, he sounds like trump. this is the trump story around the presidential debate in 2020. well, i had negative tests. i had negative tests. >> right. willie, he is tearing a page out of donald trump's coloring book, and it's so obvious. >> yes. >> he claimed that he filled out a form in australia, saying i've been here 14 days. haven't been somewhere else. ends up -- this guy is on a world tour. >> with a photographer. >> with a photographer. he's doing interviews in belgrade. he's getting massaged in spain by the pool, poolside. i forget, maybe he went to disneyland. i don't know. the black hole of kolkata. he went everywhere, and then he shows up in australia. he's lied on this form, as well. >> the question here is, are there special rules for famous people? are there special rules for prominent people? the answer at first was, yes, come on in. then the answer changed when there was outrage in the country and australia, from the prime minister, no, there are no special rules for you, novak djokovic, though you're the defending champion. then a judge says, actually, you can have your visa back. it's still up in the air. as of now, he is playing in the tournament. >> right. >> but they still could take his visa away, john. >> there's still some question as to whether or not he'll actually play when this starts next week. but i appreciate that he's saying, there is human error. error by other humans. i have nothing to do with this. >> mistakes were made. >> mistakes were made. >> there are pictures from the photoshoot that's in question here. i mean, he is a few feet from a couple people. he is not wearing a mask. he is highly contagious at that point, just tested positive. >> he knows he's positive. >> he knows. there was no gray area. >> mika, donald trump knew he was positive when he went into the debate. his family went to the debate without wearing masks. trump was on -- i don't know what he was on, horse steroids or something, going around the stage streaming and yelling. >> dewormer. >> the dewormer? >> i'm sure he was on -- >> probably got to it afterwards. >> probably the dewormer. >> it's a sort of reckless. we saw it with donald trump at the first debate. we're seeing it with djokovic here. the guy knew. he lied on his form in australia. he went country by country by country. again, they really have no excuse but to kick the guy out of the country. >> yeah. i mean, it is pretty tough. he's got himself in a little bit of a bind here by not being completely honest. >> a little bit? >> a little pickle. >> combination of donald trump and aaron rodgers. that's what you have going here. >> okay. >> can we refer to him from now on as novax all the time? >> no. >> that's my new -- >> i don't think so. >> oh, my god. the "associated press" is reporting that scientists believe omicron has peaked in britain and is about to do the same in the u.s. so cases may start decreasing significantly. >> thank goodness. >> there is more evidence this morning omicron causes less severe disease than other variants. a study of 70,000 covid patients in california found omicron infections were half as likely to send people to the hospital. in new york, more proof covid vaccines will protect you from severe illness if you are infected. of the 100,000 new yorkers hospitalized with covid at the end of december, all but five of them were unvaccinated. while breakthrough infections are way up among new yorkers, the state says the unvaccinated are 13 times more likely to end up in the hospital. with the omicron variant spreading quickly, new york is now requiring all health care workers to get a booster shot. meanwhile, new york city mayor eric adams continues to push his message that we must learn to live with covid. in his most recent interview with bloomberg, adams said schools need to stay open. he added that businesses need to bring more workers back into the office to help the city's economy. saying, you can't ruin -- you can't run new york city from home. that is a frustration. you know, i want to be careful what i say here because omicron definitely has a different outcome for those who are boosted than those who are not vaccinated at all. we're still dealing with a health crisis, but everything is connected. you know, our economy, our health, our children's welfare, their learning, it's all connected to actually getting back into the classroom and getting back to work and, somehow, learning to manage, to protect yourself, whether it be through boosters or n-95 masks. >> oh, no, everything is connected. it's like the force, it's all connected. it is. but, man, everybody also, everybody, this omicron thing is crazy. everybody's got it, right? fire hydrants are coming down with it. >> katty got it. >> yeah, i had it. >> this is my first day out, yay. i'm just out of -- >> yay. >> just out of quarantine. unlike novak djokovic, i stayed in quarantine for ten days. >> katty did my podcast while -- >> i was in quarantine, hacking away. >> let me tell you, it was impacting her. it's crazy. >> yeah. >> crazy podcast. >> none of the stress of thinking i'm going to go to the hospital because i'm boosted. i'm vaccinated. but it laid me out for a week. you don't think of the knock-on effect on businesses and the society in general. it means if lots of people are infected, even if they're not going to hospital, it means they're not going to work. they can't work effectively. there's got to be an impact on society from this thing that, you know, is beyond just measuring the hospitalization rates. >> yeah. you know, we've been talking about how it wasn't that, you know -- it's fairly mild. i will say, i've talked to a lot of people like katty who had this thing, and it knocked them down. people saying, i was in bed for ten days. >> sure. >> i knew i wasn't going to go to the hospital. it wasn't serious, but, man, it was not a picnic either. >> yeah. it's mild in terms of it's not causing the severe illness and death of previous variants of coronavirus, but it's still a legitimate illness. yeah, there are people who get it and it is more like a cold. i think we're hearing more and more people saying, it was the worst flu of my life. eddie glaude, a friend of the show, said he was laid out for ten days. you don't want to get it if you can help it. then there is the domino effect of kids not going toisolate, businesses can't open, things are canceled. >> that's why we're taking extra precaution. i wanted to have nine people around the table. we decided to have four. >> shoulder to shoulder. >> i wanted to be shoulder to shoulder. "morning joe" of old days, 17 people on the set at a time. >> you've refrained from asking lemire to sit in your lap today. >> too far. >> what's wrong with you? >> rev, can we say a prayer for john heilemann right now? >> too much. >> well, i try to be very, very conservative with my use of prayer. >> yeah, it's true. don't waste it. [ laughter ] >> he's beyond help. >> wow, ouch. >> rev just said heilemann is not worth it. >> i know. >> it's a lost cause, is what he said right there. >> fair. >> you have to save your spit. >> rev, do i get one for getting over covid, that i can feel strong and healthy again soon? >> rev? >> i didn't hear you. >> rev, katty wants to know if you'll pray for her to get strong and healthy post covid. >> oh, absolutely. katty is in my prayers, absolutely. i believe in prayer for things that i really want to see happen and that i believe is possible to happen. >> wow. >> it's a fair point. it's a fair point. i'm with rev. he's clear-eyed about this. >> very good. >> mika, what do we have next? >> joe, come here and we can sit next to each other real close, okay? >> exactly. i can't wait. coming up on "morning joe," republican senator mitt romney criticizes the president's voting rights speech, comparing biden's comments to donald trump's false claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election. >> come on, mitt. >> chuck schumer will weigh in on that. plus, russia is threatening to halt ongoing security talks unless russia accepts the demand, that ukraine not be allowed to join nato. senator chris murphy is our guest. you're watching request it morn morning "morning joe." we'll be right back. we'll be right back. new jerseys are here! there you go. all-american club™? did you just turn us into subway® ads? yep! subways got so much new like the new turkey cali fresh, that they couldn't fit it in their ads. so, they bought space on your jerseys. go long italian b.m.t.® biden: this is the challenge so, they bought space on your jerseys. of our collective lifetime. and every day we delay, the cost of inaction increases. we have the ability to invest in ourselves and build an equitable, clean energy future, and in the process, create millions of good-paying jobs and opportunities around the world. there's no more time to hang back or sit on the fence or argue amongst ourselves. so let this be the moment that we answer history's call. napoleon was born and raised to conquer. but he was just kind of over it, you know. watching prime video he realized he should follow his dreams. so he ordered a microphone with prime next day delivery. now the only thing he cared about conquering was his audience. prime changes everything. all right. 24 past the hour. live look as the morning sun comes up over the capitol. the january 6th select committee subpoenaed documents and testimony from two strategists who have said to have communicated with donald trump jr. about the rally that preceded the capitol attack. the panel also subpoenaed former white house official ross worthington, who it believes helped draft the speech the former president gave at that event on the ellipse. chairman bennie thompson was asked yesterday if former new york mayor and one-time trump attorney, rudy giuliani, is being sought by the panel. here is his response. >> he's an integral part of whatever happens. and he's on the list of a lot of people we'll be talking to. >> so you do want to talk to him at some point? >> some point. >> is it a matter of time before you do a subpoena for mr. mayor giuliani? >> well, you know, we are working through the process. >> hmm. in in other committee news, a spokesperson announced that ray epps, an ellipse rally goer at the center of a right-wing conspiracy theory, that the fbi had an informant in the capitol attack, told the panel he's never been employed by the bureau or any other law enforcement agency. so it continues, joe. >> yeah. john heilemann, rudy giuliani, bennie saying, i don't know if we'll get rudy or not. they'll get rudy. this guy, seriously, they should put a bust of him up in the united states senate as a historical artifact. he was responsible for both of donald trump's impeachments if you think about it. what he did in ukraine. what he did on the stop the steal stuff and all of the stuff leading up to january 6th. you know, trump was -- every inside right talked to him, and i'm sure you did, too -- was slowly coming to terms with this. rudy comes in in his clown car and says, no, no, no, giving him all these theories. donald trump is responsible for donald trump. i'm just says, rudy giuliani, though, this is the torts "but for" case. but for rudy giuliani, trump would not have been impeached in ukraine and, most likely the events of january 6th wouldn't have occurred. giuliani went in as trump was cooling down and spun him back and said, listen, if you let me go out there, we will overturn the election. >> it'd be impossible to know whether, if rudy didn't exist, trump wouldn't have done crazy stuff in both cases. however, there is no doubt that on the listensitar enciters, people who took the worst of trump and fueled the fire, in both cases. the craziest thing about it, or the thing that indicates that trump decline ed declined over of the presidency, trump called him a clown. >> talked about him being drunk at 6:00 with his chin down. no way i'd put him in my cabinet. >> rudy lobbied to be in the cabinet. wanted to be attorney general and wanted a job in the white house. trump said, no, rudy is a baby, a drunk, this and that, to his closest aides. suddenly, as the presidency rolled forward, rudy freelancing outside government, not with proximity to trump, manages to stir up the two biggest disasters of trump's presidency. it's kind of incredible, the role that he had. again, i think it indicates how much trump's desperation and lunacy grew between 2017 and 2021. >> rudy wanted to be secretary of state. trump would say, he's falling asleep on the airplane at 5:00 p.m. we're not going to let that happen. it points to the one thing giuliani did do for trump. he defended him on television. >> yes. >> that is the number one thing in trump's book. that's the display of loyalty. giuliani was shamelessly out there night after night defending him on television. there is no question, it was his freelancing in ukraine that started that mess, in many ways. yes, trump was trying to quiet -- was seeming to come to grips with his defeat, only to again be spun up by giuliani and sidney powell, as the rest of the west wing empties out. people had left. there was another covid outbreak after election night. who was left, giuliani. >> for all his defense on tv, for all the showy press conference with his sweating hair dye, when push came to shove, he had to go to a courtroom in pennsylvania, the judge says, what are you alleging, fraud? he said, no, i have no evidence of fraud. backed away from everything he had been say on tv. it was a show. >> his law license stripped in new york. >> yes. >> that didn't save him in the end. >> yeah. good news for us baseball fans maybe. the "associated press" reports the league and players union is scheduled to meet tomorrow, ending the 42-daybreak in negotiations since the last meeting on december 1st. spring training scheduled to start in about five weeks. you've been plugged into the negotiation. is there going to be baseball this season, or are they going to do something which is unthinkable, especially right now, and miss games? >> both sides think they are cautiously optimistic they won't miss games. current theory is, look, it's been weeks since they've met. the negotiations, talks tomorrow, it's a first step. we shouldn't over-sell them. they have a long way to go. the deadline had passed. it was an artificial one. they're not worried yet. there is some thought that some of spring training could disappear, that this will take time and spill into february to get done. then there will be an abbreviated period for trades to be made, et cetera. then ramp up spring training. hopefully games start on time. as a fan, i take solace in the fact that sides seem to recognize there's too much to lose if they go out. missing games, the damage to the sport would be catastrophic. there is a recognition, a growing hope that both sides walk up to the line, blink, and get a deal done. we're not there yet. >> especially after the past two seasons with covid. >> yeah. >> so much baseball has been missed. they can't do this again after two abbreviated seasons. >> they've lost so much money because of that. attendance was down. you know, there's tv contracts to think about. they understand, look, think about how hard it was to come back from the '94 strike. >> yes. >> more options for people to watch. we're in the middle of a pandemic. you have to get this done. >> '94, i mean, baseball has been, for all of us who are fans of it, it's been in a state of secular decline. the rise of football, the rise of the nba, and the sport as a business and as a loyal fan base declined over time. you can come back from it in 1984. 2022, whew. >> it is going to be hard. >> concern for us at "morning joe" because we lead every show with 15 minutes of red sox and yankee talk. we need to fill that time. >> we saw the trouble today. >> australian rules football? no. we have to stick to the american league east. >> basketball. >> i say the american league east. we had, like, really the most remarkable franchise right now in baseball. tampa. >> the rays, yeah. >> we never mentioned them. until the end. we know they're pretty good, too. seriously, i want somebody to write a book about that franchise. what those guys are doing, what they have been doing. >> with nothing. >> with nothing, it is really remarkable. coming up, senate majority leader chuck schumer going to be our guest. we're going to ask him about major league baseball when we return. major league baseball when we return as a professional bull-rider i'm used to taking chances. but when it comes to my insurance i don't. i use liberty mutual, they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. wooo, yeaa, woooooo and, by switching you could even save 665 dollars. hey tex, can someone else get a turn? yeah, hang on, i'm about to break my own record. yeah. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. ♪ hey lily, i need a new wireless plan for my business, but all my employees need something different. oh, we can help with that. okay, imagine this. your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, like asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee. yeah i should've just led with that. with at&t business. you can pick the best plan for each employee and get the best deals on every smart phone. just getting by. you can pick the best plan for each employee it's an ongoing struggle. that's why president biden and democrats in congress have a plan to lower costs for america's working families. lower costs of health care premiums. and the price of prescription drugs. pay less for electric bills by moving to clean energy. we do it all by making the ultra-wealthy pay their fair share of taxes. it'd be a win for the everyday american family. right when they could really use one. congress, let's get this done. ready for subway's eat fresh refresh™? that's the new and improved italian b.m.t.®, with new artisan italian bread, new black forest ham, and new mv- you gotta refresh to be fresh! hold up, false start on the spokesperson. save big. order through the app. ♪ discomfort back there? instead of using aloe, save big. order through the app. or baby wipes, or powders, try the cooling, soothing relief or preparation h. because your derriere deserves expert care. preparation h. get comfortable with it. the voting rights act periodically. since that time, overwhelmingly and on a bipartisan basis, year after year after year, because members of congress realize that this is a piece of legislation that has worked. it is beyond distasteful to some of our colleagues to ham fistedly invoke the january 6th anniversary to advance these aims. >> the voting rights act is quite simply the most important and effective civil rights legislation ever passed, bar none. this narrative of widespread voter suppression is nothing more than a scare tactic to achieve a political outcome. >> i hope 25 years from now it can be said that there will be no need for the voting rights act because things have changed for the better. as to voting rights itself, i think this is the most hyped, manufactured issue in a long time. >> just three of the 16 republicans who supported the reauthorization of the voting rights back in 2006. none of whom, none of whom currently support the measure now. >> yeah. >> i don't get it. >> majority leader, democrat chuck schumer of new york. majority leader, mr. majority leader, thank you so much for being with us. i can't help but start with the lindsey graham quote, where he was saying that january 6th was one of the most overhyped events and, yet, on january 6th, he took to the floor and said he was done with donald trump, that this was offensive, and that he'd ruined his legacy. how much things have changed in one years' time. >> well, what's happened, and your clips pointed it out, is donald trump has transformed the republican party. this was the party of voting rights. ronald reagan, george w. bush, george w.h. bush, you were there, joe, and supported voting rights. donald trump has taken over this party and has spread the big lie. we all know that's real. they've had no evidence there was massive fraud of any type. they can't point to it in any way. yesterday, john cornyn was up with a chart saying the 2020 elections went very well. that contradicts the big lie. they're trying to show, see, voting worked in 2020. now, the same thing that motivated the big lie, the same thing that motivated these republican insurrectionists to take over the -- i took his chart and used it, as it made our point. you can see him there and me there. what motivated the insurrectionists is now motivating the state legislatures to do dastardly things. they tried to have one voting place in the whole county of milwaukee, 1 million people. they're telling people that, in georgia, where there are much longer lines in african-american precincts than white precincts, that it is a crime to serve water or a sandwich. greatly restricting or eliminating early voting. saying only one early voting place in an entire county so you have to travel 23 miles. it goes on and on and on. what they're doing, it is not aimed at the public in general. it's aimed at democratic constituent constituents, voters of the democratic party. this goes beyond any politics, democrat and republican. it is a real threat to our democracy. >> leader schumer -- >> you will not believe in the sanctity of voting. that is it. it is the wellspring of our democracy. one other point. look, we had two professors come yesterday, and they showed across the world how democracies die. i think that's the name of the book. when a political party doesn't condemn violence, number one. two, won't admit they lost fairly and squarely. three, breaks all the norms, like mcconnell did when he held up merrick garland. that, they believe, is a way that societies lose democracy. the republican party, its grand history gone with donald trump, and it is headed in that direction. >> leader schumer, good morning. we understand your sense of urgency. we heard the sense of urgency from the president yesterday down in atlanta on the issue of voting rights. you've made the case. now there's the practical question of how you get i done. your colleague, senator manchin, said yesterday to the press core, i'm against getting rid of the filibuster. i don't know how many times i have to say it until you believe me. have you conceded joe manchin will not get rid of the filibuster, as he said many, many times. if you have, how do you get voting rights through? >> we're not conceding anything. this is too important to just concede. >> can you put senator manchin? >> well, we are working. there are constant meetings. not just among a few senators, but just about every senator, every single one of the 50, is talking individually to joe manchin, to kyrsten sinema. they're saying things like, "i'll lose my election if the legislature is allowed to do this in my state. we'll lose our majority but, more importantly, we'll lose our democracy." those speakers yesterday i mentioned were very powerful. so we're having constant discussions. last night for 2 1/2 hours, nine senators of disparate ideologies and regions met with senator sinema. as soon as i finish this interview, nine of us are meeting with manchin. we're having constant discussions. we're exploring ways they are against eliminating the filibuster. many in our caucus are for it. even those who are not are for changes in the rule, not for eliminating it totally. even those who are not for eliminating it totally are more changes in the rules that allow us to pass voting rights. we're actively discussing potential changes in the rules that hopefully can get all 50 of us there. do i want to want people to think we're almost there? no. it's an uphill fight. but manchin and sinema are talking to us, and we are going to hope to get this done. it is too important to drop. >> senator schumer, it is jonathan lemire. you have defended the filibuster rule in the past. here's what you said in 2017. we're going to play it. >> i hope the republican leader and i can, in the coming months, find a way to build a firewall around the legislative filibuster, which is the most important distinction between the senate and the house. without the 60-vote threshold for legislation, the senate is a majoratarian institution like the house. no senator would like to see this happen. so let's find a way to further protect the 60-vote rule for legislation. >> senator, walk us through what changed for you there, and if not just is there other topics beyond voting rights where you'd support a change, carveout to the filibuster? >> okay. first, what has changed is two words. donald trump. we tried for months to get republicans on board in the old tradition of voting rights, which is a different issue than all of these other issues that are, you know, issues of spending dollars or of this or many other things, as important as they are. we spent months and months and months. once we all came to an agreement in july on what voting rights should be, and there we do have agreement, and manchin and sinema are co-sponsored of the john lewis act and the freedom act, both of which we want to pass. joe manchin had the desire to get republicans on board. we gave him time, months, to talk to republicans. many other senators talked to republicans and said, "let's come to agreement. let's try to get 60 votes and avoid changing these rules. but they were adamant. we didn't have the votes to even debate freedom to vote, to even debate john lewis. on three of them we got no republican votes, even allowing a debate. on one, just lisa murkowski. it is a different republican party right now. the issue of voting rights, whatever people's feelings are on changing the rules on other things, and there are a wide variety of views in my caucus, except for two, it's unanimous we ought to change the rules to try to pass this. it's how democracy works. i was justbiography. the white southerners lost the war. when they vote, they have power. they can direct policy and dollars and other things to their communities. >> i want to show you republican senator mitt romney of utah spoke on the senate floor yesterday, after president biden's address. here's some of what he had to say. >> he said that the goal of some republicans is to, quote. >> turn the will of the voters into a mere suggestion. so president biden goes down the same tragic road taken by president trump. casting doubt on the reliability of american elections. this is a sad, sad day. i expected more of president biden, who came into office with the stated goal of bringing the country together. if you want to see division and anger, the democrats are heading down the right road. there's also a reasonable chance republicans will win both houses in congress and that donald trump himself could once again be elected president in 2024. have democrats thought what would it mean for them, for the democrat minority to have no power whatsoever? >> senator schumer, your reaction to senator romney? >> my reaction is it's just unbelievably amazing that he would equate donald trump and joe biden. donald trump created the big lie about the election. donald trump, as you on your show reported over and over again, is importuning people to even threatening violence. by the way, the violence wasn't just on january 6th. election officials across the country are being threatened. non-partisan election officials who just count the vote. and these republican legislators are going back to doing things that were done 40 years ago, jim crow. to equate that with democratic upsetness at wanting to change the rules so that we can have fair and free elections is just an absurdity. mitt romney knows that. mitt romney knows that. he knows that joe biden and donald trump are not the same. we don't hear or see him voting even to debate changes in the rules, even to debate making our voting rights act sanctity and strengthening it. we don't see that t all from any republican. we've successfully labeled trump's false claims about the election the big lie. you know, he gaslights. they all gaslight. they say, oh, democrats are doing the big lie. we're not doing any lies. everything we've pointed to that state legislatures are doing is happening and happening right now. so i am disappointed, deeply disappointed in mitt romney, being that partisan when the facts, not the issues, the facts, not the ideology, are the other way. it's all republicans in legislatures without a single democrat. in a highly partisan move, taking away the voting rights of people of color, of young people, of older people, of people who live in urban areas. it's a decimation of our democracy. >> senator schumer, al sharpton. one of the things -- >> yes. hi, rev. >> hi. one of the things i think was brought to bear yesterday with the president's speech is he brought it back to really what side we are going down, which side we're going to take in the country on moral levels. dr. king's grave he visited. he really said, which side are you on? as you go now and meet with your caucus, doesn't this really boil down to the fact that we are talking, after january 6t with an attempted coup, and the president used that term, attempted coup, aren't we talking about voter nullification, which was not on the table before, where they're actually trying to decide who counts the votes and, therefore, can nullify? isn't this about whether or not this country is going to stand up for the principles of democracy or not? and i think that that is think that your caucus and the two senators, certainly i've challenged the president. i think he made a great speech yesterday. he came through on things we've raised. isn't that what sinema and manchin and others have to consider, that the whole landscape has changed and we've got to decide where we are, which side we're on? >> this is the most powerful, if not the most powerful argument that we have. this is a return to -- this is giant steps backward in our democracy that withers the face of democracy. and i thought the president's comparison of which side are you on in talking about the old people who believed in states rights to enforce jim crow was very, very real, and we are making those arguments strenuously and repeatedly to senators manchin, sinema, and the country as a whole. this should not be a democratic or republican issue and never was. for the love of me, where are the courageous republicans in the senate to stand up to what donald trump is doing? everyone knows what he's doing. everyone knows it's the big lie. everyone knows, as you said earlier in the show, that others have egged him on. but where are the senators of courage? not a peep. every one of them is bowing to trump and that will create real damage. mitt romney is saying up there, look what would happen if donald trump were president. where is his voice creating fair elections so if it's going to happen, it only happens because he wins the votes, not because he steals the election, which he tried to do this time. >> senate majority leader, chuck schumer, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. >> thank you. on tomorrow's show we'll speak live with u.s. secretary of state antony blinken, and we are back in a moment with much more, "morning joe." , "morning " ♪ ♪making your way in the world today♪ ♪takes everything you've got♪ ♪ ♪taking a break from all your worries ♪ ♪sure would help a lot ♪ ♪wouldn't you like to get away? ♪ ♪ ♪ sometimes you want to go ♪ ♪where everybody knows your name ♪ ♪ ♪and they're always glad you came ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ thanks for bringing me with you guys today, mr. and mrs. lopez. not a problem, josh. hey, you two. check out all these camera views in my silverado i can see in front of me, behind me, on either side of me. and it has this cam, so i can see if there's any funny business going on. you see any funny business going on? no, sir. let's have a great day! the chevy silverado offers eight cameras with up to 15 different views. find new views. find new roads. chevrolet. earlier we were discussing british prime minister boris johnson, who is facing calls for his resignation for attending a garden party at downing street during the lockdown. here he is apologizing today. >> mr. speaker, i want to apologize. i know that millions of people across this country have made extraordinary sacrifices over the last 18 months. i know the anguish that they have been through, unable to mourn their relatives, unable to live their lives as they want or to do the things they love. and i know the rage they feel with me and with the government i lead when they think that on downing street itself, the rules are not being properly followed by the people who make the rules. and though i cannot anticipate the conclusions of the current inquiry, i have learned enough to know that there were things we simply did not get right, and i must take responsibility. >> katty kay, your take on boris johnson's apology. >> i think if he had left it at responsibility and i'm really sorry, guys, that would have been okay. but then he says it wasn't actually technically a party, i'm not sure that it was a party. if you're going to apologize, apologize. don't add a big but after it. i'm not sure it's going to fly. still ahead, it wasn't all personal attacks against dr. anthony fauci on capitol hill yesterday. senator chris murphy came to the doctor's defense during the tense hearings. he joins us at the top of the hour. plus, we'll talk to an er doctor in new york city who says he fears a health care collapse, more than the omicron variant. we'll talk about what that is. "morning joe" is coming right back. "morning joe" is coming right back it's subway's eat fresh refresh! don't let its rookie status fool you. the new baja steak & jack hits you like a seasoned vet with new juicy steak, pepper jack cheese, and smokey baja chipotle sauce. save big. order through the app. ♪ ♪ new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today. ivermectin, 40-year drug, my constituents read about this, they called it a wonder drug. and then you have this new antiviral pill coming out, and my constituents are saying this is going to cost $500, $600, $700 each. could you give me a rundown on the difference of those two, what you think about them. >> ivermectin has had non controlled trials suggesting it may be effective, mostly anecdotal. >> this is a 40-year drug and we're talking about one coming on the market. >> i think it's a mis-comparison to say one is a 40-year drug and one was just discovered. it was just discovered, but it was shown in a very well controlled clinical trial to be highly effective. even though ivermectin is a good drug for parasites, it has not been shown in a well controlled placebo trial. >> who believes he is the science, leads to an arrogance that justifies in his mind using government resources to smear and to destroy the reputations of other scientists. >> in usual fashion, senator, you are distorting everything about me. what happens when he gets out and accuses me of things that are completely untrue is that all of a sudden that kindles the crazies out there and i have threats upon my life. if you go to rand paul website, you see fire dr. fauci with a little box that says, contribute here. you can do $5, $10, $20, $100. so you are making a catastrophic epidemic for your political gain. >> as the highest paid employee in the entire federal government, yes or no, would you be willing to submit to congress and the public a financial disclosure that includes your past and current investments? there's an air of appearance that maybe some shenanigans are going on. i assume that's not the case. >> what are you talking about? my financial disclosures are public knowledge and have been so. you are getting amazingly wrong information. >> i cannot find them. our office cannot find them. where would they be if they're public knowledge? >> it is totally accessible to you if you want it. >> for the public, is it accessible? >> to the public. >> great. >> you are totally incorrect. >> we look forward to reviewing it. >> what a moron. >> doctor anthony fauci battling republican senators in a hearing yesterday. reverend al sharpton and katty kay are still with us, joining the conversation we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle with us. >> we've seen democrats and we've seen government servants being attacked by grifters who are trying to use public health crisis to raise money for their campaigns. we've seen them on the attack lately, joe biden on january the 6th, more aggressive pose, joe biden yesterday very aggressive. in my opinion, too aggressive. don't throw around bull conner and jefferson davis. and then you have anthony fauci there. that said, we talked earlier, this is the face of sort of the harry truman phase, where we were talking about how he worked with republicans to pass the truman doctrine and marshall plan, but i think we've officially turned the page to the give them hell 1948 phase. >> i hope that's the case, joe, consistently with more democrats. you just saw anthony fauci being virtually accused of being in this for profit, personal profit, when his personal financial disclosure form is available to that senator's iphone. >> by the way, anthony fauci could make ten times as much money if he quit and went to the moderna or pfizer board. he could have done that a year or two years ago, he could have left, anybody would have picked him up and he could have made ten times the amount of money he's making now. >> absolutely correct. that was a hearing held by the united states senate committee and chris murphy is going to be on in a couple of minutes. he's on that committee. what he saw yesterday was a perfect portrait of how greatly the united states senate has changed. chris murphy came into the united states senate in 2013, first elected to the house in 2007. so he's been there for a while. he would know just in that short period of time how drastically the senate has changed to what you have today. and what you heard from the president was the articulation of what you just heard from dr. fauci, frustration, frustration and rage at the idea that they twist the truth, they don't know the truth, so they use a lie, a big lie that's out there, to try and arm everyone. >> i really think -- i understand the big lie, the terminology the big lie. i really do think, so we can get down to brass tacks, as they say, we have to start calling it the big grift. this is all about money. you can look at people that run networks and look at the lies that are spread on those networks. it's about billions of dollars. you can look at people online that put things out, facebook allows the plandemic to stay up. it gets more hits than taylor swift videos, more hits than just about anything else. facebook keeps it up. they get all the ad revenue, the buzz. you look at all the social media platforms that make money, letting these lies spread, getting advertising dollars. you look at these politicians, willie, here you have rand paul, for some reason ron desantis in a state that has been hammered by infection, with a lot of senior citizens, just like all states have, but what is he doing? he's sending out fire fauci fundraising letters. here we have rand paul doing it, too. it's all a grift. you are seeing this generation -- he's jim baker. this is this generation's jim baker. jim and tammy faye baker. this is the pto club, friends, that my grandma watched and it always devolves. it started with the billy graham crew says that were on in our georgia and pensacola homes, and then it devolved into jim and tammy faye baker who said we can use people's love of the lord to actually get their social security checks. and now we're seeing that with american politics. willie, we were talking last hour about mika gets taxed every day. donald trump is angry at you. you're a socialist. you aren't giving money to donald trump. you get these emails every day from don jr., my dad is angry. he wants to know why you're not a patriot anymore. i'm talking to him tonight. are you going to give me money today? this is all jim and tammy faye baker grifting. it explains -- if you don't understand what's going on out there, why republicans, certain republicans are acting the way they are, why certain media figures are acting the way they are, why what they're saying today is the opposite of what they say behind-the-scenes, what they're saying today is the opposite of what they said a decade ago, it all comes down to the big grift. that's all it's about. they want your money. and, willie, unfortunately, they're wrecking government, they're wrecking congress to do it. >> and it's pure dishonesty, people who have had the vaccine criticizing vaccines and mandates. people who would privately tell you what a horrible, dark day january 6th is and how awful donald trump is and how they would love to excise him from the party and defending january 6th and at least dismissing what happened that day. and the irony of those senators accusing dr. fauci of profiting off the pandemic is that's exactly what they're doing. every one of those three men we showed knows better. senator marshall knows he can access dr. fauci's financial forms and he's not profiting off of this. rand paul knows that fauci is not profiting off of this. tommy tuberman knows that ivermectin is not a treatment for covid. they know these things, but it fuels their base, it fuels fundraising. >> too many republicans, the vast majority of republicans that we have just shown here this morning are against almost everything proposed by the democrats. everybody understands that. what they are for, though, and they have perfected the easy art of the steal. push this button on your phone from rand paul's email and you can give $5, $15, whatever. low amounts of money that add up and go right into the pockets of these people. >> right into the pockets. and what about the republicans that were being skeptical about covid? but they got a briefing before there's hand and what did they do? they invested in stocks. insider trading. it's unbelievable. let's bring in senator chris murphy from connecticut. senator, you were there. tell us what you saw and if you feel like joining in on people using their positions to attack others and have death threats leveled against others, and then have fundraising letters out of that, feel free. >> i mean, it's remember what dr. fauci told us yesterday. he had an individual with an ar-15 in his trunk with the intent of shooting him on his way to his house, was stopped by police. these threats that dr. fauci is facing against him and his family are serious. so you can understand why he's at his wit's end, that he is not going to put up with this sort of cascade of personal attacks. to mike's point, the senate has fundamentally changed because of this transformation from the republican party to a party of ideas to an insult club. they don't have ideas any longer. and so the work that they are primarily engaged in is coming up with ways to own democrats and then be able to high-five each other about how good their last insult was. it also raises them a lot of money and that's what rand paul is doing in these hearings. that speech he gave yesterday, he gives every single time fauci comes to the hearing, and not coincidently, he goes out and posts it on his social media pages, his web page, to try to raise money for it. this is not an honest effort to try to engage in a debate about science. this is an effort by republicans to simply get more clicks, expand their political base and try to deal with what has become of the party after donald trump. the ideas are gone, so all they're left with is this obsession with insults. >> yeah, and it works. that's how they raise money. senator, good morning. let me ask you about a different topic, voting rights. we've been talking about the president's speech down in atlanta yesterday. obviously he laid down a marker, he made the case that this legislation needs to get passed, but then there's the question of how to get it done. we talked to majority leader schumer a minute ago and he seemed optimistic that something would get carved out or get done. but, again, senator manchin said yesterday i am not forgetting rid of the filibuster. he's said that for months now. how do you get to this legislation from where you are right now? >> what i think we need to do is restore the senate and get back to what people actually think the filibuster is. right now we operate with what is essentially a no-show filibuster. the people that are trying to stop popular legislation like voting rights from passing actually need to do nothing. the old school filibuster is one that required you to come down to the senate floor and actually talk about your objections to the bill and do it day after day. what many of us think we should do is not get rid of the filibuster, but require those that are trying to stop legislation, like universal background checks or the voting rights bill to come down and make their objections heard. and i think there's a possibility that we could get 50 votes to make that change. i think the consequence of doing nothing is potentially the end of the republic. i know that sounds hyperbolic and people think we're exaggerating the stakes. but let's remember what donald trump tried to do. he tried to hijack the existing rules to seat himself in power despite the fact that he lost the election. unfortunately, as it stands today, the rules of democracy and the rules of accounting can allow a party to be able to install their leader in power even though they lost and we need to tighten up those rules to make sure that democracy exists for another 240 years. >> senator, in the summer of 2006 when you were campaigning across connecticut for election to the united states senate from the house where you sat, in july of that year 98-0, that was the vote in the united states senate to reauthorize the voting rights act. 16 republicans still serving in your senate today voted among the 98. they were among the 98 to vote to reauthorize, senator graham, collins, thune, 13 years. my question to you is, in terms of collegiality, in 2007 when you got to the senate, there was still a form of collegiality. i don't know what it is today. but how do you deal with people who you know -- they wear the face of hypocrisy when they show up to work every day on this stuff. how do you do it? how do you engage with them? >> yeah, it's such a different place. i think about the race in 2006, i ran against a 24-hour republican incumbent who was pro choice, who supported a lot of environmental measures, that sort of version of the moderate republican party is absolutely gone and it's really hard when you exist in a place where a number of your colleagues voted to overturn the 2020 election, who believe that joe biden's election was illegitimate. i guess from my perspective, i can't give up. so when that letter came out on the eve of january 6th, 12 republicans saying that they were going to vote to seat donald trump, i got on the phone and called them. i didn't give up on them. i tried to persuade them. the senate is not as bad as the house, we don't have a majority of republicans that don't believe in democracy, we've got a minority. i've got to continue to show up and pass legislation that makes the situation better and continue to try to convince republicans to get back on board with the rule of law. >> senator murphy, al sharpton. as i listened to the president's speech, i was in atlanta yesterday, isn't it so that at the same time we need to try and get all of the democrats on board, namely senator manchin, senator sinema, but we also need to give the signal to the democratic base and those that voted for the democratic party, which in fact is the reason manchin and sinema have some power, is it would be a 50/50 senate if there had not been an outpouring of voters. didn't they need the assurances that the president gave yesterday, that they are going to stand up and fight for voting rights and be on our side? isn't it as important to energize the base that we've not given up on the principles that we ran on, as it is to try to persuade some that may be on the fence on where we're going? >> so if senators sinema and manchin have been clear on their belief about the filibuster for all of 2021 and 2022 and it hasn't stopped us from continuing to push, advocate, to continue to try to bring a vote to the floor. because as you say, this is existential, this is about the future of america democracy, so we're not going to give up. and often in american politics one of the rules is you don't bring a vote to the floor that you know you might lose. in this case, i think we just have to vote. i mean, i think there's a chance that we can get all 50 of us behind rules reform. but even if we don't, let's put this up. let's show people where democrats stand and, frankly, i think in the long run that might serve us well. because sometimes putting those votes up on the board helps to mobilize our voters and swing voters who, frankly, might have taken for granted where their member of congress was on key issues like voting rights. >> so we have two issues before us, voting rights. a lot of talk about joe manchin, kyrsten sinema. maybe you can take us behind the scenes and put a little nuance on it. joe manchin has privately said to many people there's a $1.75 trillion deal out there. i'm not going to do 20 things, but if we do universal pre-k, that's historic. i'm there for that. if we limit and fully fund one or two things instead of ten things, there's a deal there. and also on voting rights, and at least talking to republicans, he's talking to democrats and he thinks he's put together a package that will do what the john lewis voting rights act does, that will guarantee every single legal citizen a constitutional right to vote and will give them redress if they think anybody is standing in their way from that. what can you tell us about those two efforts that are going on behind the scenes? >> so, first on voting rights, i just do not see ten republican votes for anything that will adequately protect people's right to vote or prevent republicans from stealing the next election. why is that? because i think donald trump and his crowd, which control the republican party, have just given up on trying to get a majority of votes. instead, they're going to try to deep democrats from voting. so i just don't see any path to joe manchin or anybody else being able to get more than one or two republicans to support voting rights legislation. on build back better, listen, i think there's a case to be made that there's danger in spreading the money too thin. and what senator manchin is saying, is, listen, i would like to do a smaller number of things really well. if we're going to expand out access to childcare, let's make that guaranteed for ten years instead of five years. i don't think that's an unreasonable position. i wish, frankly, he had negotiated that prior to january of 2022, but i absolutely still think that we can find 50 votes on a pretty significant tax cut for middle class families, a downpayment on climate change and an expansion of support for childcare and pre-k, and i think that some of the things senator manchin is asking for there are frankly not unreasonable. the timing of the ask is unfortunate, but i think that the white house and senator manchin will get there and i think they can come up with something that the rest of the caucus can support. >> senator chris murphy, thank you so much for being on the show this morning. we want to move now to covid hospitalizations in the u.s., which hit a new record this week, surpassing the previous high set one year ago. the country reported nearly 143,000 people hospitalized yesterday with covid, while evidence suggests those hospitalized with the omicron variant are less sick and have shorter stays. the sheer number of hospitalizations is straining staffs who are already facing shortages. at yesterday's senate committee hearing the acting head of the fda had this warning. >> i think it's hard to process what's actually happening right now, which is most people are going to get covid, and what we need to do is make sure the hospitals can still function, transportation, other essential services are not disrupted while this happens. i think after that will be a good time to reassess how we're approaching this pandemic. >> this is a growing emergency, according to some in the health care system, and joining us now, emergency medicine physician, dr. craig spencer, director of global health and emergency medicine at new york presbyterian columbia university irving medical center. and in a guest essay for "the new york times" entitled as an er doctor, i fear the health care collapse more than omicron. and you write, in part, this. entering the hospital with the virus versus for the virus isn't a relevant distinction if the hospital doesn't have the beds or providers needed to care for its patients. but in some places, like rhode island and california, severe staffing shortages have led to contingency plans that allow providers still testing positive to return to work, sending potentially contagious nurses or doctors to treat patients seems inconsistent with the principle of first do no harm. but the alternative is that patients wait longer for care, or worse, there isn't a provider to care for them at all. these are awful decisions to make two years into the pandemic. dr. spencer, before we ask about solutions, let's talk about how deep this growing crisis could be. are you talking just about covid care or about health care overall, in terms of staffing shortages do we have as many health care providers that are needed to treat patients in the country across the board? >> thanks for those questions. start with the last one. we've had a shortage of providers across this country since before the pandemic. health care has, in a sense, been in crisis with so many people uninsured, the lack of primary care providers for so many all around the country, it has been exacerbated by the pandemic. but what i'm focused on now and seeing in the emergency department is that we're seeing a lot of covid patients, for sure, but also record highs of non-covid patients. and the combination of those both at the same time, where we also have a decreased number of beds because we just have fewer staff to staff them. we have a lot of staff that are out themselves because omicron is so incredibly good at devading our immune protection. what we're seeing is this perfect and very unfortunate mix of more patients, fewer providers and fewer places to put those patients, and that's what i'm concerned about. that's what we've seen here in new york. that's what we've seen in places that have been hit hard by omicron. this is likely what we're going to see in places around the country that haven't yet seen the same level of this virus. >> dr. spencer, the cdc has recently reduced the amount of time people spend in quarantine, partly to try to ease pressures on hospitals. are you seeing that offering you any relief? and we're getting news from the uk that they are now past the peak of their omicron wave and the u.s. may not be far behind that. should that also ease pressures on hospitals? >> the change in the cdc isolation guidelines should help from ten days down to five days. i would like to see preferably health care providers have a negative test at the end of that time because i think it is best we don't go back to taking care of patients if we could still be contagious, and even if we're going back to take care of patients i think that we should preferably be working with covid positive patients, but logistically that's difficult. in terms of when we're going to peak and pass, in new york city there are suggestions that the number of cases has probably plateaued, same in dc. i think it's also important that we don't infer too much from data in other places. remember early on people said, well, we had a lot of cases in south africa but we didn't see a lot of hospitalizations and death. we had a lot of cases in the uk, but we didn't see a lot of hospitalizations and death. but previously when we had this big surge of delta over the summer, we saw a lot of cases in the uk, but we didn't see the hospitalizations and death. the u.s. is unique in that we have a bunch of people spread out over a bigger place, the proportion of which are unvaccinated is higher than other places and we have a health care system that has been in crisis and that has been exacerbated by this pandemic, meaning that more patients, even if omicron is milder, if not mild, less likely to put you in the hospital, it's so much more transmissible and in so many places it could potentially overwhelm the health care system. >> emergency medicine physician, craig spencer. his essay is in "the new york times." it's worth a read, given what we're dealing with across the country here. thank you, doctor. still ahead on "morning joe," heroic actions by a helicopter pilot. his chopper went down in a neighborhood and everyone inside made it out alive. plus, breaking barriers on the baseball diamond. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. we'll be right back. it's the eat fresh refresh™! let's meet the new all-american club™. this playmaker's coming in strong with new oven roasted turkey, black forest ham, and hickory-smoked bacon. it's good, hall of fame good. save big. order through the app. ♪ ♪ welcome to allstate. where auto insurance now costs less. ♪ and savings like that follow you everywhere. ♪ now, save more with allstate. ♪ because better protection costs a whole lot less. you're in good hands with allstate. call a local agent or 1-888-allstate for a quote today. welcome to silversneakers. are you ready to get moving? 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for one thing, new data on inflation is due out just a short time from now. stephanie ruhle joins us with business before the bell next on "morning joe." 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because i feel like it. we're going to bring in right now nbc news senior business correspondent and msnbc anchor stephanie ruhle. >> she's the best. >> exactly. and stephanie, inflation -- >> kaboom! biggest yearly increase we have seen since the 1980s. this is not a good number. this isn't a good situation for the white house to deal with. why? because we get gas multiple times a week, so we see the price of gas. we see the price at the grocery store and housing. housing prices are up in a big way, not just to buy houses, but rentals. last year we talked about bidding wars. we're now seeing that for rentals. here's the problem. we have a very good economy. the unemployment number is very low. with so many people quitting, that means they feel confident they can find another job. so the white house could tell a good economic story, however high prices make everyone mad and that is not good. >> can you explain something to me? i'm just a simple country lawyer. it's like when the job numbers come out. you know, they'll say terrible report, unemployment goes to 3.9%. this week we had the fed chairman powell saying i'm going to raise interest rates, and of course our whole life we hear that's going to make the market skittish, but just the opposite happened. when powell said we're going to have to raise interest rates to take care of inflation, the markets responded positively. why? >> because rates are currently at zero, joe. rates are at zero when you are in financial crisis, when you need a boost. we're not. the country is flush with cash. >> it seems like we've been there for 20 years. >> we shouldn't have been at zero rates for this long and now we are. and so if we were to raise rates a little bit, we've still got a long way to go, joe. we're not talking 5%, 6%. >> let me ask you about the people who are leaving jobs in massive numbers. is there any information on what kinds of jobs they left and what kind of jobs are out there now that are available? >> we are seeing all sorts of people leave retail service jobs. think about it. the jobs where you are facing the brunt of covid, one-on-one jobs where you have the most covid exposure, and also customer service, where you're dealing with the most angry customers, furious about empty shelves and canceled flights. those people are moving to work from home, remote jobs, jobs where they don't have to deal with that. and this is actually a good time to be a worker because you've got more options out there. look at the amount of new businesses that have started in the last year. part of the great resignation has been a great moment of entrepreneurship. >> we've got more than 10 million open jobs in this country and a lot of people leaving their jobs. what are the implications for small businesses? if you're run ago restaurant or dry-cleaner, and you say i can't have half of my dining room open, what happens to those business owners? >> it means if you own that small business you are working around the clock. the walmarts, the targets, the amazons of the world who can pay more, offer bonuses, that local pizzeria can't do it. it's really, really difficult for small businesses. >> stephanie, thank you so much for being here. we're going to hand it off to you at the top of the hour, or sooner. >> i think early today. we owe her a few seconds. >> we do. >> you know what? i hosted 11th hour last night, so i'm not tired. give me a whole extra five minutes. i'm not going to pass out. >> exactly. let's do it. coming up next, best-selling authors james patter son and mike lupika team up with a new novel and they'll join us next. novel and they'll join us next my mental health was much better. my mind was in a good place. but my body was telling a different story. i felt all people saw were my uncontrolled movements. some mental health meds can cause tardive dyskinesia, or td, and it's unlikely to improve without treatment. ingrezza is a prescription medicine to treat adults with td movements in the face and body. it's the only treatment for td that's one pill, once-daily, with or without food. ingrezza 80 mg is proven to reduce td movements in 7 out of 10 people. people taking ingrezza can stay on their current dose of most mental health meds. don't take ingrezza if you're allergic to any of its ingredients. ingrezza may cause serious side effects, including sleepiness. don't drive, operate heavy machinery, or do other dangerous activities until you know how ingrezza affects you. other serious side effects include potential heart rhythm problems and abnormal movements. it's nice people focus more on me. ask your doctor about ingrezza, #1 prescribed for td. learn how you could pay as little as zero dollars at ingrezza.com. not only do centrum multigummies taste great. they help support your immune defenses, too. as little as zero dollars because a healthy life. starts with a healthy immune system. with vitamins c and d, and zinc. getting out there has never tasted so good. try centrum multigummies. it's time for our lowest prices of the season on the sleep number 360 smart bed. it senses your movements and automatically adjusts to relieve pressure points. and its temperature balancing so you both sleep just right. save up to $1,000 on sleep number 360 smart beds. plus, 0% interest for 36 months when you add an adjustable base. only for a limited time. your heart is at the heart of everything you do. and if you have heart failure, entrust your heart to entresto. it's the number one heart failure brand prescribed by cardiologists. entresto was proven superior at helping people stay alive and out of the hospital. heart failure can change the structure of your heart, so it may not work as well. entresto helps improve your heart's ability to pump blood to the body. and with a healthier heart, there's no telling where life may take you. don't take entresto if pregnant; it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. don't take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren, or if you've had angioedema with an ace or arb. the most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure, kidney problems, or high blood potassium. ask your doctor about entresto for heart failure. entrust your heart to entresto. welcome to silversneakers. are you ready to get moving? (throws punch) our new virtual classes were designed for you and millions of seniors like you. you can now choose from thousands of live virtual classes every week. get moving wherever you have an internet connection. and when you're ready, enjoy access to thousands of locations nationwide. with silversneakers, you're free to move. enroll today at no additional cost by visiting getsilversneakers dot com. welcome back to "morning joe." let's bring in our best selling officers, they're out with a new novel titled "the horse woman," an eye opening ride through the high stakes world of equestrian show jumping. something, mr. lupica you know a new england or two about yourself. >> yeah, joe, i'll tell you something. this book's not just about show jumping as jim knows. this is about a mother and a daughter who love each other but they also love winning and two women who have one dream, and it is to make it to the paris olympics. and it is, if we do say so ourselves, a pretty good ride. >> mr. patterson, i have an important question, i think, for you mr. patterson, the question is, who is it easier to work with, bill clinton or mike lupica? >> both excellent. they're both good looking guys, and they both take orders so it's perfect. i tell you what, though, mike is on a serious note, he is the best writer i've ever worked with. >> wow. >> wonderful writer, wonderful writer. >> we are having a blast here. >> relax, relax. >> i was waiting for the -- >> that can be arranged. >> so mike lupica, let's talk about this collaboration, not a bad guy sitting to your left there to work with on a book. how does it work when you write a book together like this? >> well, we just -- we finish each other's thoughts. we'll give you a line. >> we'll do an outline, and then we alternate words. >> oh. >> say can you. >> see. >> by the dawn's. >> early light. >> like that. >> that's actually in the book. we wrote that -- >> you know, mr. patterson, i love one of these reviews. it comes from a guy who i once talked to about horses, and he'd gotten a horse for his wife, and he said, you know, the thing is when that -- when you're sleeping, that horse is eating. when you're awake, that horse is eating. i'm speaking of carl hyason, pretty damn great writer himself, and he said it's more than a thriller. it's an eye opening ride through the high stakes ride of equestrian show jumping. he talked about what a great team you are. i would guess it's the same with anything, being able to work with the guy next to you makes a huge difference in the finished product. >> it's been great, other than we golf together and that's a bad idea, but the rest of it, as i said, mike is great, and we do finish each other's thoughts a lot. and yeah, like that. >> here's the thought, okay? we met at a bar, we met at a bar, okay? >> as writers will. >> and we started kicking around some ideas. >> right. and then mike looked at me and he said, you need me. >> i can hear that. >> but you know what, joe? what jim loved about -- what jim loved about this sport from the start, women compete against men, young people compete against old people, and it's -- and what we try to do is not just take you into the relationship of the mother and the daughter and actually the grandmother who's trying to hold onto her farm, but in the ring and how dramatic and exciting this sport really can be, and we can't spoil the ending, but the finish line is the paris olympics for both of them. >> one of the interesting things that's happening is there are now these mother and daughter books clubs that are popping out. mothers and daughters really like reading this thing. people wind up rooting for either the mother or daughter getting to the olympics. >> let's bring in mika, i'm sorry. let's bring in mika. >> please. >> who knows a thing or two about this. she spent her life riding. even let her horse come into her horse during christmas parties. they're close. >> is that you, joe? are you symbolically the horse in her house? >> i'm the pig in her house. >> and then followed her daughter around for years, mika, take it away. >> yeah, a lot of different connections with this. by the way, the horse in the house during parties actually drank beer from a bottle like this. >> depends on the house. >> my mom had a strange way of entertaining, but never questioned it, that along with serving road kill. all for another day. what i love about this book, though, is it does look at, you know, the sport and the horsemanship, horsewomanship and the competition, which is all so complicated and so obsessive. a lot of young girls, when they get latched onto horseback riding, it is their life. it also looks at the relationship between a mother and daughter, which that in itself can be very dynamic. i think you guys are on to something. >> thank you. we enjoy it. well, mike, his wife and his daughter both ride, and participate in show jumping. >> and mika, you know, louise penny who's a brilliant author gave us a quote for this book that just blew us away, and she was actually impressed that you guys could get into the minds of the women in this book, so we're pretty actually proud of that. >> actually, one of the nice things for mike and i, we adore our wives, so that helps, and our wives, and we take what they have to say. they helped us to write the book. they told us how to write the book actually. >> well, often fathers can be the biggest witness to the relationship between a mother and a daughter as well, and so i'm not surprised at that type of insight, especially when -- oh, wow, i mean, i can't wait to read it. so the new novel is "the horsewoman," mike lupica and james patterson, thank you both very much for coming on this morning: congratulations on the book. and joe, before we close, i know we're giving it to steph early, some final thoughts this morning. >> i better not talk because we're running out of time. >> i yield my time to the congresswoman from new jersey behind me. >> mike barnicle. >> i'm still baffled by the demise of the united states senate. >> yeah. >> okay. >> i mean, we talked about about when chris murphy was there, i mean, you know when i was there if i stepped out of line i'd hear from alan simpson, i'd hear from trent lott, people saying boy, have more respect for the institution, more respect for this, more respect for that. there were giants that walked the halls then, like that time to be back, and let's see if we get this to -- we tried to get to stephanie ruhle in time. >> we're ten seconds into her show. >> that does it for us this morning, stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage 12 seconds late into her show right now. >> hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle here live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. it is wednesday, january 12th, and we start this morning's broadcast with breaking news. the latest inflation number is out, and it's a biggie. it showed prices were up 7%

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