welcome to a special hour of "msnbc reports," "attack on the capitol." we're less than a year away from that day that i will never forget. >> we don't know what that material was. there are people that are watching all of this happen, watching these protesters at the capitol. and they're cheering it on, they're saying go, go, go, keep going. you saw people aiming a fire extinguisher at police. it's obviously pretty contentious right now. >> that day haunting so many of us even today. tonight we'll explore the recent testimony or lack thereof given to the house select committee investigating the january 6th attack, who is being held accountable for their actions, and who is not. what repercussions former top aides and allies of the trump administration face for dodging subpoenas. and what steps are being taken to prevent these actions from ever taking place again. as three generals come forward in a piece published by "the washington post," warning of, quote, lethal chaos inside of our military after the next election. with that, let's get started. we have been tracking major developments all this week in the investigation into the january 6th insurrection at the capitol. on monday the january 6th committee releasing a series of text messages sent to and from trump's former chief of staff mark meadows in the lead-up and on the day of his attack. in addition to members of his own party, meadows heard from major conservative media figures and even trump's own son, begging meadows to do everything in his power to get trump to call off his mob. fox host laura ingraham writing meadows, mark, the president needs to tell the people in the capitol to go home. this is hurting all of us. he is destroying his legacy. the house also voting to hold meadows in contempt over his refusal to answer the 1/6 committee's questions about that attack. much more on meadows' future in the hour to come. plus new details this week about trump's allies in congress, speaking to the founder of the stop the steal movement in the lead-up to january 6th. congress men paul gosar, mo bricks, and andy biggs all named in a lawsuit. roger stone, yet another trump ally in the spotlight this week when he appeared before the select committee on friday. but stone refused to answer their questions after invoking his fifth amendment rights against self-incrimination. and we saw the biggest sentence handed out to a january 6th rioter so far. this guy, robert palmer, getting sentenced to 63 months in prison for repeatedly assaulting police officers at the capitol. so, so, so much to talk about. to help make sense of it all is josh gerstein, senior legal affairs write for politico. luke broadweighter, a congressional reporter for "the new york times." and katie benner, a "new york times" reporter and msnbc contributor. how close are we to figuring out the lead-up to january 6th and how to prevent it from happening going forward? >> well, i think there's been considerable progress on the second half of that question, yasmin, in terms of what can be done sort of at a tactical level at the capitol to prevent this from happening again. in terms of figuring out exactly what happened on january 6th, you know, i think there's been some progress. the text messages you mentioned earlier are certainly enlightening and suggest that the house investigation is getting some traction in obtaining information about what happened. but there are still a lot of puzzles left here, in particular surrounding president trump himself. we know about these texts that people were trying to urgently reach him through mark meadows. what we still don't know is what was president trump doing. there have been some sketchy reports that he was watching tv and seemed satisfied or happy with what was going on. but we have yet to get really firsthand accounts about what was the president doing as the violence unfolded and as he seemed so reluctant to make a sort of statement to call off his folks. >> and josh, the clock is ticking. midterms are around the corner, in which republicans could take back control of congress. and at that point, this investigation could feasibly be over. >> right. the committee i think has been careful not to set out an explicit timeline, especially since they're confronting this kind of stonewalling from some of the witnesses that they're trying to talk to. but at the same time, you're right, there's just sort of a practical deadline that by the end of this spring, if they haven't brought this investigation to some kind of a conclusion and aren't moving towards making public a report, the whole thing really sort of disappears into the midterm elections. so i think as a practical matter, they've got three, four, five months here into the new year to get at least the congressional part of this investigation wrapped up. the criminal investigations are another matter. >> we're going to get into that in just a moment as well. let's talk about the text messages that josh just mentioned, i want to go through some of those text messages of course to the former chief of staff mark meadows. reading off some of those, we are under siege, there is an armed standoff at the house chamber door. we are all helpless. is there anybody in your reporting, luke, pointing the finger at mark meadows that was not doing it before? >> that's a good question. and thanks for having me. as you were outside that day, i was inside. so i know the way a lot of these people felt, sort of this panicked feeling of how this attack needs to stop and would somebody do something. it does not seem to me, though, that these text messages have turned any member of the congress against mark meadows who were not previously. as you saw when the vote came up to hold him in contempt, the only two republicans who voted for it were liz cheney and adam kinzinger, the two members of the committee recommending the contempt charge. so unlike steve bannon who had nine republicans vote to hold him in contempt, seven of those votes disappeared when it came time for meadows. meadows' case is a bit different from bannon's. he was in the white house at the time so he does have a slightly stronger claim of executive privilege. he has a lot of friends on capitol hill. he was the head of the freedom caucus for several years. he has a lot of contacts, and bannon doesn't have those same friendships on the hill. so, you know, i don't think -- from what i saw out of those texts, i don't think a single republican abandoned meadows who was already with him. >> katie, expand on that reporting for me. we're talking about the idea, of course, we know steve bannon is held in criminal contempt. is there any plan to do the same for mark meadows here? >> sure. once that justice goes over to the justice department, it will be up to career prosecutors in washington to make that determination. once they make that decision, it goes to attorney general garland and he looks at it. he has always backed career prosecutors since taking office. i cannot imagine that he would turn his back to them this time. and then it goes before a grand jury to make a final determination to make an indictment. keep in mind this is not a fast process. we saw it happen over multiple weeks with bannon, that was considered very quick. meadows might take a little bit longer because as luke said, he does have a slightly greater claim to privilege. this isn't going to be an overnight procedure. for people looking to both the house investigation and the justice department's work to hold donald trump or any of his supporters accountable, you have to look at it in two different ways. there's how will history judge this matter, and that is very much a matter for the house and very much a matter for the u.s. attorney's office and for the justice department. and then there's the practical matter of the ground game over the next couple of years, who will be in power in congress and the white house, that has almost nothing to do with congress or the justice department, because those processes cannot move quickly enough to have any impact on the midterms or even on the general election. that is, again, a different congressional issue. laws around voting and things like, you know, the two voting bills that are not going to be passed, it looks like. >> katie, talk to me about the thinking inside the department of justice as to why not investigate the former president and his links to and the lead-up to january 6th. >> sure, i think that people inside of the justice department would say investigating the former president has never been taken off the table. right after the january 6th attack we saw the u.s. attorney come out publicly and say all options are on the table, they would never rule anybody out, you follow the facts and follow the law. in keep in mind, in order to open a criminal investigation on the president would be a matter of reaching a very high bar with evidence, and then also understanding that if something like that were to go to trial, it would have to first get past the district court level, then the appeals court level. this would have to be the very strongest case possible. this is not going to be a decision made flippantly. i understand, if you look on social media, if you look on twitter and you look at public comments, everyone says, oh, this should be so easy. but this has to be something that if undertaken, could make it through the court system. because if not, a loss would be pretty disastrous. >> hey, luke, talk to me about this reporting that you and katie have out about the j6 committee looking at foreign adversaries and their involvement. >> right, so the january 6th committee has been beefing up its staff pretty consistently over the past several weeks. they're up to about 40 investigators and staffers right now. they're looking to add probably about five more to delve even deeper into undiscovered things that are in line already, into some of these hard-to-find chat rooms and social media sites that -- and connecting who anonymous people are to real identities. so this is some pretty advanced work that takes a certain amount of technical expertise and technical prowess to do. so they're looking to bring on more staff to beef that up. the other thing that we reported was that there's a question about when stop the steal happened, and it divided our country so badly, did that open up divisions for foreign governments to exploit and take advantage of us even deeper. we know that there were some incidents with iranian nationals, who were actually charged over this during the -- in the run-up to the election. but does it go even deeper? are there more ties to how this division was potentially exploited by foreign governments? that's another area, an avenue that the 1/6 committee is looking into. >> i can't help but wonder what their objective is here and what they can actually do to stop it, considering all the testimony that we've seen in the past and the fact that they have not been able to regulate social media before this. josh gerstein, luke broadwater, katie benner, thank you for your extraordinary reporting. next, congressman joaquin castro is here. he helped prosecute president trump in the impeachment proceedings after the attack on the capitol. but first, richard lui is here with the headlines. good evening, yasmin. west virginia senator joe manchin now says he cannot support the build back better social spending bill, this is after months of negotiation with democrats on the hill. a white house statement saying manchin's actions were, quote, at odds with his discussions with the president, the white house staff, and his own public utterances, end quote. the death toll from super typhoon rai continues to climb in the philippines. the 15th typhoon to hit the country this year killed at least 140 people. severe flooding and power outages are slowing search and rescue operations. and senators elizabeth warren and cory booker say they tested positive for covid-19. both lawmakers say their cases are mild. more "msnbc reports: attack on the capitol" after this break. wrinkly at least my shoes look good! looking good start with bounce wrinkleguard, the megasheet designed to prevent wrinkles in the dryer. woman: i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months after just two doses. skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, such as fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or coughs or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. ♪ nothing is everything. ♪ woman: talk to your dermatologist about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. 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joining me now, one of the nine managers of former president trump's second impeachment trial, democratic congressman joaquin castro of texas, giving us a little holiday cheer with that tree in the background, we appreciate it, congressman, amidst all that's going on in the country right now. >> it's the least i could do tonight, i guess. >> thank you so much. okay. let's talk first here about accountability. you are a former impeachment manager for the president the second time around, he was held accountable in the house, obviously not in the senate. you faced a lot of criticism for not getting john bolton to testify in that impeachment trial. is this system just not equipped to hold people accountable? >> i actually don't think that it is. i think there's got to be a quicker way to add swrud indicate these issues, whether it's subpoenas or other issues, when you've got an impeachment trial going on or impeachment inquiry or something like the january 6th commission. that's something congress should work on, getting courts to adjudicate subpoenas and other issues on a faster track when something like this is on stake. really, the commission has three general goals. and i think that bennie thompson, the chairman, is actually carrying them out pretty well. the first one is transparency to get the whole story out to the american people about what happened. the second one is holding people accountable including making referrals to the department of justice for criminal prosecution. and then the final piece is doing everything you can to make sure that this doesn't happen again. >> so holding people accountable, how are they being held accountable, and in what respect do you expect this is actually going to change people's minds? this is an incredibly divided country. if they're able to even wrap this thing up before november, how is it going to change people's minds? >> well, let me answer your first question about accountability. the chairman has been very aggressive and has offered people a chance to cooperate. and when they haven't, like with steve bannon and mark meadows, they've been referred to the did the department of justice for prosecution. i think that's exactly the tack you have to take with this group of people who believe they're above the law, that they don't have to answer to congress or the american people. you've got to basically put your foot down, which is what he's done, and get tough with them. and he's also got the opportunity, the commission's got the opportunity, the committee, to make criminal referrals once its investigation is complete. so there will be an opportunity to hold people who helped plan this thing and everything that happened on january 6th to hold them accountable. in terms of changing people's minds, look, you're right, donald trump and a lot of other republicans have gone out there for a few years now and basically told a big lie about election fraud. and they've stirred up anger and fear and resentment in a lot of americans. and you saw a fraction of those people show up on january 6th and become violent. and so it's incumbent on all of us including the media and everybody else to continue to tell the truth. and also for congress to pass laws like hr 1 and hr 4 that will combat the election interference that republicans are trying to accomplish in the state legislatures and by following a cultish figure in donald trump. >> i want to drill down on this, i think it's an important discussion to be had. we've heard of these text messages coming from the likes of, for instance, jim jordan, and the planning of january 6th to a certain extent. text messages sent to mark meadows from jim jordan. this is an individual that could feasibly be a committee chair in a year's time if in fact republicans take the house. what do you make of that, how is that accountability? >> well, you're right, and that's why it's important that the committee get its work done this year and make any criminal referrals it needs to to the department of justice. that includes any members of congress who had an active role in helping to plan or prepare for the attacks of january 6th. i don't think that there should be any kind of congressional courtesy or custom that's followed that would let members of congress off the hook just because they're members of congress if they actively helped to plan this attack or helped the people who were planning the attack, and also if they were helping donald trump try to steal an election by preventing congress from doing its duty and accepting the results of the 2020 presidential election. >> congressman, are you confident the department of justice is going to follow through with criminal referrals? >> i believe that they will. i believe that they'll take action. i believe that the department of justice has to understand what's at stake for the country. in "the washington post" today there are three retired generals who said the military needs to be prepared in case there is an attempted coup or insurrection in 2024, and i think that's right. listen, if we don't act swiftly and aggressively now, then elections in november 2022 and certainly the presidential election in 2024 may not look at all like what we've known elections to be in the past. >> how worried are you about that, about that real possibility, the loss of democracy in this country, if we're not following through? >> i'm extremely concerned. as somebody that sat on the intelligence committee, has sat on the intelligence committee since mid-2016, went through both rounds of impeachment, the intelligence committee had a role in those, then i was at the capitol although i was in my office in rayburn on january 6th, and watching everything happen since then, when the price of admission to the republican matter now is to buy into the big lie and follow donald trump like a cult figure. you cannot win a republican primary for congress now, just about, unless you buy into the idea that when a democrat wins a major political race, it's based on fraud. for them, they have now defined democrats winning elections as fraud. and that is incredibly dangerous for our democracy. >> congressman joaquin castro, thank you. happy holidays to you and your family and thank you for that holiday cheer behind you, again. just this week, everybody, this florida man received the longest sentence yet for attacking police on january 6th, more than five years ago. what's in store for trump allies? and could the former president ever face any charges? we'll ask our legal panel, next. >> we are televising the breach. >> the capitol is a free place to go. you are allowed to go to the capitol. but you've got to go through metal detectors, you've got to go through security. when you breach that, you haven't gone through security, you've got to imagine that that is making a lot of the capitol police and other folks inside the capitol right now very, very uncomfortable and very nervous. s our sleigh is now ready, let's get on our way. a mountain of toys to fulfill many wishes. must be carried across all roads and all bridges. and when everyone is smiling and having their fun i can turn my sleigh north because my job here is done. it's not magic that makes more holiday deliveries to homes in the us than anyone else, it's the hardworking people of the united states postal service. - oh...oh. - what's going on? - oh, darn! - let me help. it's the hardworking people of the lift and push and push! there... it's up there. hey joshie... wrinkles send the wrong message. help prevent them with downy wrinkleguard. feel the difference with downy. before discovering nexium 24hr to treat her frequent heartburn... claire could only imagine enjoying chocolate cake. now, she can have her cake and eat it too. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn? 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i've got an all star legal panel. march about a mack wade, former u.s. attorney in michigan and an msnbc legal analyst. frank fill lee usy, former assistant director for counterintelligence at the fbi and msnbc national security analyst. and chuck rosenberg, an msnbc contributor, a former u.s. attorney and senior fbi official. frank, let me read for you a part of the former president's statement just released yesterday evening. all the democrats want to do is put people in jail. they are vicious, right now, and radical left thugs. they don't think they'll be held accountable for rigging the 2020 presidential election. the january 6th unselect committee is a coverup for what took place on november 3rd and the people for our country won't stand for it. your response, frank, on twitter was, tick-tock. expand on that for me. what did you mean? >> i don't think the former president hides his emotions very well at all. and typically, historically for him when he sends out something like this it's indicative that he's learned something he didn't know. his targeting of democratic d.a.'s and district attorneys, something is stirring, word has gotten to him that something is about to him, he doesn't like where the investigation is going, he's lashing out. it's the possibility that either the state of new york or manhattan district attorney's office and/or the doj is getting closer to him. some word has gotten back to him that triggered that message. >> so you think this may be a result possibly of the text messages revealed earlier this week especially from liz cheney? >> oh, i think specifically it's my belief that doj and the select committee are not working in a vacuum. for those all over social media who are understandably frustrated with timing and wonder if doj and merrick garland and fbi are doing absolutely nothing. i'm an evidence guy, i see glimpses that not only is doj not doing nothing but rather that they understand the role of the select committee. we've seen doj and the white house waive executive privilege. we've seen people cooperating at a fairly high level. we've seen even this week a guy by the name of straka, an arrested defendant in the january 6th case, the doj put the brakes on his proceedings. he spoke at the rally, he's been arrested, and he's cooperating, enough cooperation for doj to stop what they're doing with straka. other oath keepers are cooperating. we know a high ranking oath keeper was asked by fbi agents, were you in contact with members of congress or their staff. we've heard chairman bennie thompson tell reporters in the last two weeks who authored the texts being released by the committee. he said house members and staffers, the same language the fbi is using when they question oath keepers. i think things are happening. i think merrick garland understands domestic terrorism, he prosecuted and helped prosecute the largest domestic terrorism case in the united states, the oklahoma city bombing. he knows what he's doing. >> chuck, there was an article talking about the former president's culpability, being able to evade accountability up until now. i want to play a portion of the phone call with brad raffensperger to remind folks of it. >> so look, all i want to do is this, i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. because we won the state and flipping the state is a great testament to our country. >> chuck, i think the major question here is, was that breaking the law by calling the georgia secretary of state and asking him to find votes, and if so, why has he not been charged? >> like frank, and i'm sure like barb, i'm also an evidence guy. that phone call is evidence of a crime. but it's not conclusive evidence of a crime, yasmin. it could be that the president is so deluded, was so deluded, that he actually thinks he won georgia. if he actually thinks he won georgia, then asking the secretary of state in georgia to find the votes that he thinks belongs to him would not be evidence of a crime, it would be evidence of his delusion. that's precisely why you do investigations, in order to establish the hardest thing in these criminal cases, intent. what did the president know to sort of use and borrow an old phrase, and when did he know it. and so the reason these investigations take time is that there's an easy part and a hard part. the easy part is having the phone call. the hard part is proving, demonstrating what it is the president actually knew, what he actually intended. could you have a crime in georgia? absolutely. do you have conclusive proof with that phone call? no, not yet. >> barbara, let's talk about a possible investigation of the doj into the former president. i touched on this a little bit with "the new york times" reporter katie benner earlier, justice department reporter for "the new york times," about the thinking behind the scenes there. what do you make of this, do you believe the justice department should be launching an investigation into the former president? is there a possibility it's already going and we just don't know about it? >> i think there's absolutely adequate predication to be investigating president trump. there are a number of avenues that could be used for that purpose. number one is, and we heard michael sherwin, acting district attorney in the district of columbia, in the aftermath of january 6th, saying they were going to investigate anything that had anything to do with this even to the highest levels, to include sedition and other crimes. it could very well be the cases we're already seeing, the 600-some cases are just the lower level cases that will build to the higher level. so it's possible it's already occurring through that avenue. grand jury investigations are by definition secret. it could very well be there are other investigations occurring that we don't know about. there's a third possibility, and that is that the justice department is allowing congress to do some of the heavy lifting here, bringing in some of these witnesses and getting these privileges and other issues worked out so that if and when this committee has to disband at the time of the midterms, all of that is still evidence that the justice department could use to bring its own charges. so i think there are multiple ways that there could be investigations swirling all around right now. >> so if in fact this committee has to disband at the midterms, that doesn't mean necessarily that their work stops. the justice department at that point can pick it up and run with it if in fact they feel like that's what's warranted? >> absolutely. you know, it may very well be they're already doing that or they're already working in parallel, as frank as suggested. at the very least, if this committee were disbanded, they could share all these transcripts and things they've put together in the case to the justice department for them to pick up the ball and carry it. >> frank, what about all the people who surrounded the former president in the leadup to january 6th, the folks that enabled the election lie we're learning about every single day, whether it be jim jordan, whether it be congressman scott perry of pennsylvania, gosar, biggs, gohmert, meadows obviously as well. what about investigations launched into them? could there be subsequent investigations, either launched by the justice department and/or the fbi as barbara was just speaking to that we don't necessarily know about to hold these people accountable? >> not only do i think it's possible. i think it may be happening. and again, i refer back to the little clues we're getting. the fact that an fbi agent asked a senior oath keeper if he's been in contact with congress or staffers regarding the january 6th breach, fbi agents don't just come up with questions off the top of their head in a nationwide investigation. the questions are drafted by intelligence analysts. there are collection requirements. they're put out in templates to all agents. i think the fbi is looking at the involvement of congress members and staff and i think that's already happening. >> chuck, final word to you quickly here, is there a sense that the justice department doesn't want to get as involved in an investigation of the former president because they see it as too political at this moment? >> it's such an interesting question, yasmin. i think it's a mistake for those at the justice department to go too easy or too hard based on someone's status or the fact that they held office. you have to play it down the middle. my hope is that they do an investigation, a thorough, thoughtful investigation, they follow the facts, they apply the law. you know, it is a hard call as to whether or not you charge someone like donald trump, because you also have to have a reasonable probability of conviction, meaning not just enough to charge, but enough to convict. and as we were speaking about earlier, yasmin, when part of the conviction is predicated on proving intent, that's hard. so i don't mind that the justice department is being careful, like barb and like frank, i sure hope they're doing an investigation. >> i always love talking to you guys, i learn so much, as our audience does as well. barbara, frank, chuck, i'll ask you to stick around because we have more to come in this special, including fox news hosts' texts telling a very different story from their on-air comments. that's next. >> a member of the senate is telling nbc news the vice president and senator charles grassley, senator pro tem, have been taken to a secure location. the doors of the senate have been closed and locked and senators told to stay away from the doors. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ("this little light of mine") - [narrator] in the world's poorest places, children with cleft conditions live in darkness and shame. they're shunned, outcast, living in pain. you can reach out and change the life of a suffering child right now. a surgery that takes as little as 45 minutes and your act of love can change a child's life forever. please call or visit operationsmile.org now. thousands of children are waiting. do i need to pretreat my laundry? nope! with tide pods, you don't need to worry. the pre-treaters are built in. tide pods dissolve even when the water is freezing. nice! if it's got to be clean, it's got to be tide. this is the sound of nature breathing. and this is the sound of better breathing. fasenra is a different kind of asthma medication. it's not a steroid or inhaler. fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it's one maintenance dose every 8 weeks. it helps prevent asthma attacks, improve breathing, and lower use of oral steroids. nearly 7 out of 10 adults with asthma may have elevated eosinophils. fasenra is designed to target and remove them. fasenra is not a rescue medication or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. this is the sound of fasenra. ask your doctor about fasenra. welcome back to this msnbc special report. one of the more remarkable discoveries of the january 6th investigation has been the trove of text messages exchanged between former white house chief of staff mark meadows and trump supporters. we now know that as the capitol was under siege, mark meadows was fielding desperate text messages and calls from former colleagues in the house. trump family members and most curiously, a number of fox news personalities. "fox & friends" host brian kilmeade, as well as laura ingraham and sean hannity, reached out to meadows, begging him to have the president call off the attack. "this is hurting all of us," ingraham texted, "he is destroying his legacy." killmeade texted, "can he tell these people to leave the capitol." their concern seems courageous or would be if those same hostilities didn't immediately turn around and spend the entire year downplaying and distorting the events of january 6th. when you consider the sentiments they expressed to mark meadows along with the talking points they espoused just days after the attack, the contrast is jarring. >> more than 99% were peaceful but because of a small contingent of loons, these patriots have been unfairly maligned. >> i do not know trump support that's have ever demonstrated violence that i know of in a big situation. >> people who acted violently today, they don't represent the millions of law-abiding, hard-working, tax-paying citizens, responsible american patriots that are worried about election integrity. >> it is rare to have such tangible proof of fox hosts' lying to their audiences to be able to compare exactly what the network's biggest stars were broadcasting to the public compared to what they were saying in public. they spread conspiracy theories that antifa committed the attack. ingraham in particular has made a habit out of mocking figures like representatives alexandria ocasio-cortez and adam kinzinger after they opened up about just how afraid they were during that attack. and those actions are completely antithetical to what we know now. they recognize the horror of january 6th. they saw it for what it was, an attack on democracy. but it was in their political best interests to lie about it. up next we'll find out what's ahead in the investigation. stick around. the whole world is watching this. the whole world is able to see what has happened to the u.s. capitol. by our reckoning, both houses, house and senate, have been breached. members of the house and senate have been told to shelter. and yes, we have seen guns drawn. ey manager) how do your clients know that? 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>> it's a really important question, yasmin. i'm a rule of law person. so my bias is that other people see things the way i do and will behave the way i try to behave. i'm optimistic, but what we saw on january 6 was horrifying. and i know there's a prospect that something like that or even worse will happen again. i may be completely wrong, but i remain an optimist >> frank, are we ready when it comes to law enforcement? are we ready when it comes to intelligence? because we certainly were not on january 6. the intelligence, whether or not it was there, whether or not it was heard, we were not prepared. are we going to be prepared the next time this thing is coming? >> so january 6 was a wakeup call and people are snapped in and understand more that we present a threat to ourselves, that's good news. the not-so-good news, yasmin, i don't see the changes in place yet, the mind-set to take on this thing differently, i'm very concerned about national law enforcement agencies at large, police departments with regard to domestic extremists. let's not forget that one in six of those arrested for january 6 have some sort of military tie. we don't have a domestic terrorism law. short answer, we're not there yet, and we better get there fast. >> if you look at that op ed, you're saying legislators need to take this seriously, folks that we have elected to washington need to take this thing seriously, however, what they failed to mention is that in many respects we are depending on people who refuse to acknowledge the former president pushed an election lie that led to january 6. so, in fact, we are depending on those people to keep us safe? when another insurrection comes our way that could be worse than what we saw on january 6. how does that add up? >> oh, it doesn't add up. that's why i'm concerned about the future and the speed with which we're going to put initiatives in place to change this. you know the white house several months ago released, a quote, new strategy with great fanfare. i read it three times. it's great. it can't happen fast enough, changing social media, educating the public, using educators, clergy, regulating social media, fantastic document. is that going to happen in time? it peace not. it's not. >> as we look at january 6 and the people who stormed the capitol, it was not just lone wolves, they were doctors, firemen, former members of military, people we interact on a daily basis that we respect respect, that we seek out daily for services. will there be real accountability? >> well, i think that is one very important step that has to happen, that i think could dampen some of the enthusiasm for the conspiracy theorists and those who are pushing misinformation if there is accountability. and that's why i think this committee is working so hard and with such urgency, and i hope the justice department gets involved and brings criminal charges in that way. >> thank you for wrapping up this evening with me. happy holidays to all of you and your families as well. and thank you at home. stick around as sheinelle jones falls five women as they reflect on the psychological and physical pain of infertility with the goal of encouraging community and hope. 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