Transcripts For MSNBC Yasmin Vossoughian Reports 20240709 :

Transcripts For MSNBC Yasmin Vossoughian Reports 20240709



i am yasmin vossoughian coming to you live from msnbc world headquarters. wow, wow, wow, what a day. bombshell from senator joe manchin, announcing hours ago he's an n-o. a no on the build back better. >> we all knew senator manchin couldn't be trusted, you know, the excuses he just made i think are complete [ bleep ]. >> let me be clear, there are six of us who had been saying this all along, representative ocasio-cortez, and representative talib and representative bowman and omar and myself, we have been saying this for weeks that this would happen. >> i hope we will bring a strong bill to the floor of the senate as soon as we can, and let mr. manchin explain to the people of west virginia why he doesn't have the guts to stand up to powerful special interests. >> put the bill up and let him stand before the american people and tell them that he does not support childcare, and climate change and housing systems for those who need safe and secure housing. >> all i want for christmas is a senator that has compassion for the american people and not contempt. >> so we are going to talk all about that, of course. we are also following the latest on the january 6th committee investigation with a look at who will be next up to answer or evade their questions. plus, the surge in covid fueled by omicron. it's turning the holiday season upsidedown in some areas, this being one of them. coming up, doctor natalie azar joins me about how we are going to stay safe. but we want to begin with a scathing response from the white house to senator joe manchin saying no to the build back better bill. this was a moment, josh. we are in the middle of our editorial meeting and going through the rundown for the show today and this came through the e-mail and this was going to be the leading story, and so many people reacting, and it was quite a statement essentially from the white house saying manchin lied. >> what a dramatic change in tone it was, yasmin. they tried to be hands off with him even as frustration among progressive democrats was boiling over on the hill. the white house said, look, at the end of the day we need his vote if we are going to pass this bill. there doesn't seem to be any use in trying to pressure him publicly or call him out, but i think it's fair to say that as of today the gloves are off with the white house issuing this really blistering statement, accusing him of going back on his word with white house spokeswoman, jen psaki, saying, senator manchin promised to continue conversations in the days ahead, and it represents a reversal in his admission and a breach of his committeesments and president. she revealed behind the scenes details, saying on tuesday of this past week senator manchin showed up at the white house and met with joe biden face-to-face and personally presented him with a written proposal of what he was willing to accept and the white house felt had holes in it but was along the same size and scope of what president biden was seeking, and it was something that could be further grounds to get some type of an agreement, and so the white house feeling caught off guard by manchin today. they only had half an hour heads up from an aide, not manchin himself. and they are saying they are hoping he will reverse course again if he did once. there's a good atmosphere for making further negotiations at this point in time, and there's frustration and anger from the white house has just bursts out of the record. >> on the record now on fox news of all places, saying no. if you are betting for him to switch to yes, you will be waiting a long time. this is part of the statement that stood out to me. if his comments on fox, a written statement indicate an end to that effort, that will be a breach of his commitments in the house and in the senate. just startling stuff -- i think that dog in the background agrees as well. josh letterman for us, thank you, my friend. >> the reaction from democrats in congress also swift and in some cases included profanity, as you heard off the top. want to bring in julia, and there was a 30 minutes heads up before joe manchin went on fox and said it was a big n-o. representative omar using some profanity in her reaction. progressives called it and that's why they wanted to vote in tandem with hard infrastructure and here we are. >> in the house progressives basically forced speaker pelosi to hold up and not put in the bipartisan infrastructure bill until they had something really tangible to build back better. remember, it was overnight in november where that shift happened and they ended up voting on the infrastructure, and then ended up passing a version of the build back better, and it's not even finished. it was not finished even before senator manchin said he was a no. there's a lot of outstanding provisions in there. progressives, you played some of the sound at the top, and they are like, i told you so and we knew if we did not put these bills together, we knew this would happen. >> my lack of trust was about senator manchin. he never negotiated in good faith. we cannot allow one lone senator from west virginia to obstruct the president's agenda, to obstruct the peoples' agenda. jake, all i want for christmas is a senator that has compassion for the american people and not contempt. >> we cannot allow one senator to obstruct our agenda. well, they will need that senator. what we are seeing in the last couple of hours here, reaction from the democrats knowing that they have to not pissing off manchin any further so they can pass something. if you are in the camp that believes they can get something through, and he said he supports universal child care, and i heard sources saying they may not pass legislation until march or april. if you are in the camp that believes democrats can get something passed, which is better than nothing, and some said we are angry with joe manchin but we cannot let that stand in the way of making progress on climate change. the climate is not going to wait for us to play politics. >> quite a position the democrats find themselves in right about now. thank you, and we appreciate it. i want to bring in one democratic congresswoman from new mexico to get her reaction on what we have been hearing throughout the day in that statement on fox from joe manchin earlier today. what are you feeling today? >> i think everybody is blindsided by what has happened over the next few hours, and this bill is must-pass legislation not only for democrats but for the country, but when you think about the consequences of not investing in the child care system, and we have thousands of families here in new mexico, we have to address the climate crisis. this is a situation in which we can't give up. from my perspective, yes, people are frustrated but we have to get manchin back to the table and resume negotiations because we have to pass this bill. >> do you think you can get him back to the table at this point, saying he's on fox news saying it's an n-o. >> i listened to the statement, and i am a former senate staffer before i ran for congress, and i think we were all shocked and blind-sided by this statement, but i do believe that senator manchin will come back to the table. i hope he comes back to the table. i think he knows the importance of this legislation. i can't speculate as to what went through his mind this morning when he made that statement, but i know the white house and the leadership and all of us are committed to getting it done. >> why do you think he understands the importance of the legislation when he said what he said this morning, and as he has been saying the last couple of months? i mean, the writing was on the wall. >> i think the objections senator manchin has put forward is around the cost and how to pay for the bill, which he has been clear about, and he also is clear that he supports some of the provisions in the bill, and i think the promises by the president and the leadership of the democratic party and all of us that have been fighting for this bill in our communities are so huge and so monumental for the american people, that we can't let this one bump in the road get in the way of us passing this legislation. we have to deliver for our kids and for our families and we have to deliver on climate change now. >> do you think it was a negotiating tactic? >> you know, like i said, i can't speculate as to what was going through senator manchin's mind. i know the senate had a difficult week. i know the president was personally engaged in negotiations throughout the week and those of us in the house that wanted to see this bill passed before christmas are really frustrated and upset, but i know the president and the democratic leadership is committed to getting everybody back to the table and getting it passed and if that has to happen after the new year, we will do it whenever we can, but we have to get back to the table. >> happy holidays to you and your family. thank you. your representative, debbie dingell joins me live at the half hour. still ahead, reports of covid cases doubling across the country, and an 11-hour event cancelations, and we are joined live to answer questions about omicron ahead of the holidays. we'll be right back. at least my shoes look good! looking good start with bounce wrinkleguard, the megasheet designed to prevent wrinkles in the dryer. 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>> heard what? >> the show decided it would not be a live audience due to the spike in cases in omicron variant. the winter wave is stretching into the sports world, too. nine brooklyn nets players entered the nba's health and safety protocols while the nfl postponed three games this weekend following outbreaks. the league and players association releasing a joint statement regarding new measures which will include a more targeted testing plan and more flexibility for players to attend meetings virtually. case counts fueled biome cron are rising at an alarming rate. the variant now detected in all 50 states, leading to long lines for tests. >> nearly three hours now. >> in new york city, the pandemic is dimming the holiday spirit, shutting down the radio city, rockettes. it's getting so bad in europe the mayor of london declared a major incident again. >> in the last 24 hours, we have had the largest number of new cases -- >> back in the u.s., doctors pleading with the public to get vaccinated as they brace for a dark winter. >> we never got back to our pre-pandemic levels. we're worried it continues to be busier in a very difficult time of year. >> it's like déjà vu, with no signs of omicron slowing down, some schools are going back to virtual learning and some universities will go remote for the rest of the year, and that list likely will grow. >> thank you. i want to bring in dr. natalie azar now into the conversation and she will answer some of your questions about what you have been tweeting me and what you can expect. thank you for doing this because i know folks are worried once again, as we are seeing our lives change dramatically, what we thought was going to happen over the holiday season obviously being incredibly different. can you gut check us for a moment here, how worried should we be? >> this is how i frame it, yasmin. if you are an individual who has been doing their part and following the science and, you know, leading with that and you are vaccinated and boosted and masking in indoor spaces, you as an individual will probably be okay. the people that i worry about are our health care workers. i worry significantly about the unvaccinated. i worry about individuals who put off taking care of chronic health conditions during the pandemic, and are now presenting with more advanced disease, whether that's cardiovascular, diabetes, things like that. again, if you have been doing the right things and you are protecting yourself and following the science at an individual level you will be okay, and i worry about the health of all the other individuals and worry about the disruption, and just listening to kathy talking about schools and everything, i am keeping my fingers crossed my kids will stay in the schools after the holidays as well. >> you and me as well, when you are thinking you are making the right decision by getting your kids vaccinated, and there still could be school closures. this is from fara, is the booster still effective for omicron? >> the answer is we don't know yet because we only have booster data out four weeks for pfizer and two weeks for moderna. that is antibody levels, four weeks after a booster, and in the case of moderna, four weeks after the booster. if we all talk about this, it's a three-shot series, it's a three-shot series, what does that mean when antibodies will start to wane, right? that's what they are supposed to do. your b cells and t cells and other parts of your immune system takes over to prevent from severe disease, and if the next follow-up question to this viewer's question is, if my booster does not last that long do i need another shot in six months, and the answer is maybe but we just don't know. you have two weeks after the booster where we know your antibodies will be at their maximum and then they start to decline about a month later and continue to decline there after. what that means in terms of breakthrough infections and all that, yasmin, way too early. we have no idea. >> this is so incredible to me, doctor, and we're learning as we go, right? >> yeah. >> we are all part of a study of the development of these vaccines and virus as we get these vaccines. let me get to another question here, and you mentioned cancer and autoimmune disease and folks' susceptibility to this. nobody asks how safe of those with cancer are even if boosted? >> it's not a one size fits all on that, because number one, different cancers and different audio immune diseases behave differently in terms of how they do, and it depends on what medications people are taking. some have no impact on vaccine response and some others have a dramatic impact, and so it's not a one size fits all and there are those that would behave like a person without those conditions, and then we worry about a lot of them because of a variety of different factors and their response to vaccinations is significantly different than the average person. >> last one. i will make this one quick. will we ever get rid of covid entirely? i think this is literally the best question and i asked this for everybody in my circle? >> yeah, it would be a one-word answer, and it's no. it will be here like the seasonal flu. we just hope it's at a point where we can have a mild respiratory tract infection where we all survive. >> oh, covid! dr. natalie azar, thank you. thank you for being the gut check that we need right now. we appreciate it. coming up, everybody, we return to our top story with more reaction of senator manchin's decision to vote no on the build back better bill. more on that after the break. mok . any further questions? uh uh! one up the power of liquid with tide pods ultra oxi. 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ask your health care provider today about once-weekly ozempic®. oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! you may pay as little as $25 for a 3-month prescription. mom, hurry! our show's gonna start soon! i promised i wouldn't miss the show and mommy always keeps her promises. oh, no! seriously? hmm! it's not the same if she's not here. oh. -what the. oh my goodness! i don't suppose you can sing, can you? ♪ the snow's comin' down ♪ -mommy? ♪ i'm watching it fall ♪ watch the full story at www.xfinity.com/sing2 welcome back. it's the no word around the country. senator joe manchin saying he will not vote for the build back better act, effectively killing it. listen to this. >> i always said this, brett, if i can't go back home and explain it to the people of west virginia, i cannot vote for it. i cannot vote to continue with this piece of legislation, i just can't. i have tried everything humanly possible and i can't get there. >> you are done, this is a no? >> this is a no on this legislation. i have tried everything i know to do. >> democratic representative, debbie dingell joining us now. thank you for joining us. your reaction? >> i never thought i would call joe the grinch who stole christmas, and i am stunned and nobody had a heads up that this was coming and the white house made that clear. i will not accept it. i will not accept the fact that i have too many people in my district that want to see the cost of their insulin lowered, and since i walk in the door of the congress i have been fighting to help people stay in their own homes when they need long-term care. when you look at the weather that we have seen across the country because of global warming and our younger people are saying, what are you doing to us? what are you doing to protect future generations? there's too much work that has to be done. we cannot accept joe manchin's no, we have to figure out how to deliver to the american people on a lot of issues and there are a lot of issues that impact their lives every day. >> the progressive arm of your party is essentially saying we knew this was going to happen, we knew this was going to happen. it's exactly the reason why we held off on voting or held off on wanting to vote for hard infrastructure, and we knew once hard infrastructure was passed we knew joe manchin would back off build back better, and that's what happened, so why is that surprised? >> the fact of the matter is i do not regret my vote on the infrastructure bill for one minute, because we are already seeing the money in that bill making a difference, and we could not sit there -- >> so you don't -- i don't mean to cut you off. >> we needed to start to do it, and so having either bill is not the answer, but joe manchin he has to look the seniors in west virginia in the eye that are desperate to lower the cost of heart medicine or insulin, and say, sorry, just got to keep paying for more money. he obviously stunned the world today. we got to do something. we cannot accept his no as a no. >> what does do something look like, congresswoman? >> a lot of us will have to start talking again about what that means. does the president have any ability to get joe manchin to change his mind? i already started tables and bringing people together to talk about some of the issues he cares about, like electric vehicles, but we can't say no to people who worry about the cost of their prescription drugs, and we can't say no to caring about child care and seniors that need long-term care. we will have to start tomorrow to figure out how we can get that bill passed however we got to do it. >> quickly here, congresswoman, looks like there's ideas forming in the party to approach this in a piecemeal manner, and he has said n-o to the build back better, so maybe look at passing small incremental things. >> i think we have to take a big breath and understand why joe manchin did what he did when he did it. it's stunning. i can't believe he did it this way. we have to figure out how we are going to -- the pieces in there are too critical to tomorrow people not to move it forward, and we have to find out a way to get these things done. >> debbie dingell, thank you. coming up, debbie debbie wasserman schultz is going to be joining me. but first, tony, good to see you. i want to stick with the idea of being surprised, and representative dingell saying she was surprised and shocked and also shocked by the way he delivered this and the timing to which he delivered this n-o vote on fox news to build back better. what do you make of that? >> i think there's surprise over the substance and surprise over the process. in terms of the substance, joe manchin telegraphed for months now that he has concerns, and the three areas he outlined today in speaking with fox news is that he was concerned about inflation, and geopolitical concerns and generally the debt are things he said back in september when he called on the democrats to hit the pause button on the bill, and he came out and issued the statement and said in days after he met with the white house. so it seemed to stun the people that this is how the year is going to end. they could go through the month's long process to win senator manchin's support and end up with him issuing a fiery statement. >> where do you suspect the hold up is for senator manchin? we know the committee on taxation said this thing would be paid for -- the congressional budget office, it was not as straightforward, we should say, and we know manchin said he was holding out for that report. where do you think the major sticking point is for manchin? do you think this is something the president can feesly resolve, that this could be a negotiating tactic? >> the issue seems to be the math here. democrats started with what was a $3.5 trillion proposal, and got it down to $1.7 and now it's at about $2 trillion, and they whittled down their bill, and now in the eyes of democrats that was a good way to do it because you cut the cost of the package, and senator manchin saw that as a gimmick because he knows the dems would like to take the short-term programs and make them permanent, and so they pointed to the fact that the package was paid for in full, and he said, yeah, sure, but only over a short period of time. i think both sides think they are making legitimate arguments about the package and the negative effects it could have, and it speaks to a mental divide, and senator manchin wants it at $1.5 trillion and all of the spending over ten years is going to require democrats to make sizeable cuts, really big cuts, not just to the numbers but in removing individual components just to get down to the price tag. >> tony, thank you so much for your reporting on this. we appreciate it. meanwhile, former president trump is unleashing a slew of lies about the capitol hill insurrection, some old and some new. the former president falsely claimed that he requested 10,000 national guard troops ahead of his stop the steal rally to give proper protection to attendees, and he falsely claimed ashli babbitt because the only to die, in fact four others lost their lives. as the former president talks the january 6th committee is continuing their work. one member of the committee says they have not ruled outgoing after some of their own house colleagues. in the next hour, we will have more on the latest targets of the january 6th investigation. >> -- responsibility for that riot? >> it's possible. >> we will pursue everything to the ends of the earth, and we don't like going here but that includes members of congress. >> we will talk more about the january 6th investigation coming up in our next hour, as i just mentioned. you will want to join me tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern for a special, taking a deep dive on what happened on that day and what can be done to make sure it never happens again. that's tonight, 9:00 p.m. eastern only on msnbc. i will stay up all the way until that time, and you better, too. it's sunday night. we will be back, everybody. it's the most joyous time of year. especially at t-mobile! let's go to dianne. i got the awesome new iphone 13 pro and airpods, and t-mobile is paying for them both! and this is for new and existing customers. upgrade to the iphone 13 pro and airpods both on us. only at t-mobile. nurse mariyam sabo knows a moment this pure... ...demands a lotion this pure. new gold bond pure moisture lotion. 24-hour hydration. no parabens, dyes, or fragrances. gold bond. champion your skin. look! oh my god... i want my daughter riley to know about her ancestors and how important it is to know who you are and to know where you came from. ♪ we're discovering together... it's been an amazing gift. ♪ y'all heard it here. if you wanna be fresh, you gotta refresh, like subway®. like the new baja steak & jack tender, thicker-cut steak and. wait sooo you're not coming out of retirement? 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(excited yell) woo-hoo! ensure max protein. with thirty grams of protein, one gram of sugar, and nutrients to support immune health. welcome back. in the spotlight today a podcast that usually focuses on legal issues took a very big turn in its latest episode to deal with the looming fears over the economy and specifically inflation. harry litman gathered an all-star group for a deep dive on the issue. >> one thing i have been trying to sort out in my own reporting, if you are an average or typical family what this has felt like and meant for you as a whole, because a lot of those families who got stimulus payments, they are coming up far ahead, and people hate inflation, and in a way that goes beyond their experience of it and i think it's worth taking that seriously as well as we are talking about taking it seriously, as a policy program that folks are going to have to deal with. >> there's two parts of this. there's a part of it that is about the psychology of inflation that has to do with the fact that people may be getting their 5% wage increase because there's inflation, and without inflation they would have gotten a 2% wage increase, but they think they got a 5% wage increase because they were great and not because of the inflation, so they blame the inflation for the bad stuff but don't credit the inflation for the good stuff. >> former u.s. attorney and host of "talking feds" is joining me now. talk to me. you usually focus on legal issues, and we found it important this time around to talk about inflation and the economy, why? >> this was a day when inflation hit a 40-year high, and it was important in and of itself but also the psychological and political impacts. we like to mix it off, and we often do current events one, and yesterday we spoke about the republicans, where will they go from here, and christine, todd whitman, and michael steele, so maybe every five times or so we will do a topical one, and then tomorrow we will return to familiar folks and talking about the events of the week, so we like to mix it up. >> i was listening to you talk about inflation, because the economy is doing quite well especially when you think about economic recovery in regards to what we have dealt with over the last two years with covid, and she talks specifically about how inflation affects people, and if you have money in your bank account, you go to the store and find out meat costs more than it used to, and it's real and affecting folks. what was your biggest takeaway from this? >> my biggest takeaway was, a, it's totally real and there's a real risk that kind of gallops of what is the economy, but it's a death ray for the biden administration. there's nothing they can do and it's up to the fed and private sector and they take the blame and it really is sort of a black cloud looming over the economy and the midterms, as it has not been, as i said, in 40 years. >> harry, thank you for now. i will need you to stick around here and i want to talk about january 6th in the next hour and the developments there. make sure you tune in to "talking feds" wherever you get your podcasts. thank you, terry. talk to you in a bit. she supported her child being trans, and so the state separated them. is that just the beginning? and then you don't want to miss the revvie's, and then a live politics nation right here on msnbc. tide pods dissolve even when the water is freezing. nice! if it's got to be clean, it's got to be tide. trelegy for copd. ♪ birds flyin' high ♪ ♪ you know how i feel ♪ (coughing) ♪ breeze driftin' on by ♪ ♪ you know how i feel ♪ copd may have gotten you here, but you decide what's next. start a new day with trelegy. ♪ ...feelin' good ♪ no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier and improves lung function. it also helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. take a stand and start a new day with trelegy. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy. and save at trelegy.com. welcome back to a shocking story in new york magazine about katy churchill. a mother from michigan who after lengthy chort battles was separated from her children, all for supporting her middle child's gender exploration. child protective services argue $in court she was pushing her child, who now has settled into he/him pronouns to identify as trans. a shocking charge that churchill denies. the children were ultimately placed in the custody of their father, who admitted in court, by the way, to abusing katee on at least two occasions. joining me now to talk about this case and how it represents a disturbing trend in custody battles amongst families with lgbtq children. thanks four joining us on this. we appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> this has been an incredibly long process for namly. walk us through what happened. >> yeah. so this started back when, um, katy's middle child was 3. when he started, um, exploring his -- his gender presentation and his use of pronouns. um, and cps got involved one time and the judge found there was no abuse or neglect, um, but then a year later, they brought another case and that case resulted in katee's loss of custody of her kids. >> how does that happen when you have a father admitting in court that he abused katy twice? >> yeah, that is a good question. um, interestingly, the domestic violence -- although, it was brought up in court, it was not ever a factor in the -- in the custody decisions. so -- so, the -- you know, the dad -- his name's chris -- he got custody even though it came up in trial, and it was -- it seemed that it was more focused on katee's parenting. exclusively, on katee's parenting. >> i want to be clear here, you actually spoke to fin and fin made it clear to you that being trans was, in fact, his choice. i can't imagine how traumatic this experience has been not only for her other dhirn but fin as well. what else did he say to you? >> yeah. fin, um, is a really smart kid. and um, he -- he explained the experience in really physical terms. so he said when he thinks about his gender, his stomach hurts. and so, he tries not to think about it. um, and so, he -- he really tries to, he said -- he -- he's really into famous wars. he is like focused on learning stuff and thinking about things because he said, um, when he -- when he thinks about his gender, it makes him uncomfortable. >> that's so sad to hear. i hate that for him. um, you are seeing the trend in your reporting. the aclu is adding the idea that people are being pressured to be trans in a world that has such unrelenting pressure to be cis is absurd. what are we seeing? >> yeah. um, so a lot of attorneys are seeing this play out in custody cases. there was a pretty famous custody case in texas involving a trans girl named luna younger and that sort of kicked off a wave of this. but the cps involvement is an additional concern, um, because it's actually state intervention. and since that story published, i have had at least one other mom reach out to me in a different part of the country saying that she's experienced very similar situation with her kid. >> wow. thank you so much for joining us on this your incredibly important reporting on is this story. more reaction to senator's big no on president biden's build back better bill. we are going to hear from congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz on whether the bill is dead or just mostly dead. >> it just so happened your friend here is only mostly dead. there is a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. the snapshot app from progressive rewards you for driving safe and driving less. okay, what message did you hear this time? safe drivers can save using snapshot? -what's snapshot? -what the commercial was about. -i tune commercials out. -me too. they're always like blah, blah blah. tell me about it. i'm going to a silent retreat next weekend. my niece got kicked out of one of those. -for talking? -grand larceny. how about we get back to the savings? [ everyone agreeing ] hello? gordon ramsay? get back to the savings? this is a cold call! nfl teams are turning to cold with tide, will you? that will never work! if it works on nfl jerseys it'll work for you. seriously! just perfect! and it'll save up to $150 a year. and it's cold! so you will turn to cold? fine! i'll turn to cold! that guy needs to chill out! this was a cold call! ♪♪ this flag isn't backwards. it's facing this way because it's moving forward. ♪♪ just like the men and women who wear it on their uniforms and the country it represents. they're all only meant to move one direction which is why we fly it this way on the flanks of the all-new grand wagoneer. moving boldly and unstoppably forward. age before beauty? why not both? visibly diminish wrinkled skin in... crepe corrector lotion... only from gold bond. hi, everybody. i'm yasmin vossoughian from msnbc world headquarters. if you are just join us, welcome. if you are still with us, thank you. mark the calendar. december 19th, 2021. the day the build back better bill was killed. and we don't need to search for a suspect. senator joe manchin going on fox news this morning to use the most powerful weapon he had -- the word no. before we get into the politics of this thing, i want to take a look back at how we got to breaking point. due to the slim majority in the senate, moderate democrats joe manchin and kyrsten sinema were thrust into the molt spolt earlier this year, after democratic leaders began work on president biden's legislative agenda. from the start, the west virginia senator was set on legislation that, one, did not cost too much and, two, whatever the cost, there needed to be a plan for how it would be paid for. in july, he told reporters quote i think everything should be paid for. we have put enough free money out there. his concerns, along with ongoing bipartisan negotiations, made the process increasingly difficult as lawmakers worked toward both physical and human infrastructure. manchin was supportive of the physical infrastructure bill but was adamant about it not being tied to

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Transcripts For MSNBC Yasmin Vossoughian Reports 20240709

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i am yasmin vossoughian coming to you live from msnbc world headquarters. wow, wow, wow, what a day. bombshell from senator joe manchin, announcing hours ago he's an n-o. a no on the build back better. >> we all knew senator manchin couldn't be trusted, you know, the excuses he just made i think are complete [ bleep ]. >> let me be clear, there are six of us who had been saying this all along, representative ocasio-cortez, and representative talib and representative bowman and omar and myself, we have been saying this for weeks that this would happen. >> i hope we will bring a strong bill to the floor of the senate as soon as we can, and let mr. manchin explain to the people of west virginia why he doesn't have the guts to stand up to powerful special interests. >> put the bill up and let him stand before the american people and tell them that he does not support childcare, and climate change and housing systems for those who need safe and secure housing. >> all i want for christmas is a senator that has compassion for the american people and not contempt. >> so we are going to talk all about that, of course. we are also following the latest on the january 6th committee investigation with a look at who will be next up to answer or evade their questions. plus, the surge in covid fueled by omicron. it's turning the holiday season upsidedown in some areas, this being one of them. coming up, doctor natalie azar joins me about how we are going to stay safe. but we want to begin with a scathing response from the white house to senator joe manchin saying no to the build back better bill. this was a moment, josh. we are in the middle of our editorial meeting and going through the rundown for the show today and this came through the e-mail and this was going to be the leading story, and so many people reacting, and it was quite a statement essentially from the white house saying manchin lied. >> what a dramatic change in tone it was, yasmin. they tried to be hands off with him even as frustration among progressive democrats was boiling over on the hill. the white house said, look, at the end of the day we need his vote if we are going to pass this bill. there doesn't seem to be any use in trying to pressure him publicly or call him out, but i think it's fair to say that as of today the gloves are off with the white house issuing this really blistering statement, accusing him of going back on his word with white house spokeswoman, jen psaki, saying, senator manchin promised to continue conversations in the days ahead, and it represents a reversal in his admission and a breach of his committeesments and president. she revealed behind the scenes details, saying on tuesday of this past week senator manchin showed up at the white house and met with joe biden face-to-face and personally presented him with a written proposal of what he was willing to accept and the white house felt had holes in it but was along the same size and scope of what president biden was seeking, and it was something that could be further grounds to get some type of an agreement, and so the white house feeling caught off guard by manchin today. they only had half an hour heads up from an aide, not manchin himself. and they are saying they are hoping he will reverse course again if he did once. there's a good atmosphere for making further negotiations at this point in time, and there's frustration and anger from the white house has just bursts out of the record. >> on the record now on fox news of all places, saying no. if you are betting for him to switch to yes, you will be waiting a long time. this is part of the statement that stood out to me. if his comments on fox, a written statement indicate an end to that effort, that will be a breach of his commitments in the house and in the senate. just startling stuff -- i think that dog in the background agrees as well. josh letterman for us, thank you, my friend. >> the reaction from democrats in congress also swift and in some cases included profanity, as you heard off the top. want to bring in julia, and there was a 30 minutes heads up before joe manchin went on fox and said it was a big n-o. representative omar using some profanity in her reaction. progressives called it and that's why they wanted to vote in tandem with hard infrastructure and here we are. >> in the house progressives basically forced speaker pelosi to hold up and not put in the bipartisan infrastructure bill until they had something really tangible to build back better. remember, it was overnight in november where that shift happened and they ended up voting on the infrastructure, and then ended up passing a version of the build back better, and it's not even finished. it was not finished even before senator manchin said he was a no. there's a lot of outstanding provisions in there. progressives, you played some of the sound at the top, and they are like, i told you so and we knew if we did not put these bills together, we knew this would happen. >> my lack of trust was about senator manchin. he never negotiated in good faith. we cannot allow one lone senator from west virginia to obstruct the president's agenda, to obstruct the peoples' agenda. jake, all i want for christmas is a senator that has compassion for the american people and not contempt. >> we cannot allow one senator to obstruct our agenda. well, they will need that senator. what we are seeing in the last couple of hours here, reaction from the democrats knowing that they have to not pissing off manchin any further so they can pass something. if you are in the camp that believes they can get something through, and he said he supports universal child care, and i heard sources saying they may not pass legislation until march or april. if you are in the camp that believes democrats can get something passed, which is better than nothing, and some said we are angry with joe manchin but we cannot let that stand in the way of making progress on climate change. the climate is not going to wait for us to play politics. >> quite a position the democrats find themselves in right about now. thank you, and we appreciate it. i want to bring in one democratic congresswoman from new mexico to get her reaction on what we have been hearing throughout the day in that statement on fox from joe manchin earlier today. what are you feeling today? >> i think everybody is blindsided by what has happened over the next few hours, and this bill is must-pass legislation not only for democrats but for the country, but when you think about the consequences of not investing in the child care system, and we have thousands of families here in new mexico, we have to address the climate crisis. this is a situation in which we can't give up. from my perspective, yes, people are frustrated but we have to get manchin back to the table and resume negotiations because we have to pass this bill. >> do you think you can get him back to the table at this point, saying he's on fox news saying it's an n-o. >> i listened to the statement, and i am a former senate staffer before i ran for congress, and i think we were all shocked and blind-sided by this statement, but i do believe that senator manchin will come back to the table. i hope he comes back to the table. i think he knows the importance of this legislation. i can't speculate as to what went through his mind this morning when he made that statement, but i know the white house and the leadership and all of us are committed to getting it done. >> why do you think he understands the importance of the legislation when he said what he said this morning, and as he has been saying the last couple of months? i mean, the writing was on the wall. >> i think the objections senator manchin has put forward is around the cost and how to pay for the bill, which he has been clear about, and he also is clear that he supports some of the provisions in the bill, and i think the promises by the president and the leadership of the democratic party and all of us that have been fighting for this bill in our communities are so huge and so monumental for the american people, that we can't let this one bump in the road get in the way of us passing this legislation. we have to deliver for our kids and for our families and we have to deliver on climate change now. >> do you think it was a negotiating tactic? >> you know, like i said, i can't speculate as to what was going through senator manchin's mind. i know the senate had a difficult week. i know the president was personally engaged in negotiations throughout the week and those of us in the house that wanted to see this bill passed before christmas are really frustrated and upset, but i know the president and the democratic leadership is committed to getting everybody back to the table and getting it passed and if that has to happen after the new year, we will do it whenever we can, but we have to get back to the table. >> happy holidays to you and your family. thank you. your representative, debbie dingell joins me live at the half hour. still ahead, reports of covid cases doubling across the country, and an 11-hour event cancelations, and we are joined live to answer questions about omicron ahead of the holidays. we'll be right back. at least my shoes look good! looking good start with bounce wrinkleguard, the megasheet designed to prevent wrinkles in the dryer. (vo) t-mobile for business helps small business owners prosper during their most important time of year. when you switch to t-mobile and bring your own device, we'll pay off your phone up to $1000. you can keep your phone. keep your number. and get your employees connected on the largest and fastest 5g network. plus, we give you $200 in facebook ads on us! so you can reach more customers, create more opportunities, and finish this year strong. visit your local t-mobile store today. and finish this year strong. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ age before beauty? why not both? visibly diminish wrinkled skin in... crepe corrector lotion... only from gold bond. new vicks convenience pack. dayquil severe for you... and daily vicks super c for me. vicks super c is a daily supplement with vitamin c and b vitamins to help energize and replenish. dayquil severe is a max strength daytime, coughing, power through your day, medicine. new from vicks. welcome back, everybody. a bleak warning from the nation's top infectious disease expert a short time ago. omicron is taking over and our hospitals are stressed. the u.s. already setting record-breaking numbers of new cases each and every day and the biggest spike is yet to come. on "meet the press" dr. anthony fauci shared about what they learned about the omicron variant so far. >> the information we're getting from our south african colleagues still suggest when you look at it totally, the hospitalization to case ratio is less than with delta, but you got to be careful. that might be due really to the fact that their population has so much experience with prior infections it might be underlying immunity that is making it looks like it's less severe. as a virus it inherently may not be less severe. >> kathy park is joining us now. it's good to see you. i know you have been tracking all the closures, and we have seen some in the last couple of days and there are even more now. walk us through that. >> yeah, it's hard to keep up with sport being events to broadway shows and even "snl," covid is disrupting our lives. the omicron variant is tightening its grip as we brace for a dark winter. rising covid cases being blamed for major disruptions all across the country. even "saturday night live" -- >> whoa, where is everybody? >> heard what? >> the show decided it would not be a live audience due to the spike in cases in omicron variant. the winter wave is stretching into the sports world, too. nine brooklyn nets players entered the nba's health and safety protocols while the nfl postponed three games this weekend following outbreaks. the league and players association releasing a joint statement regarding new measures which will include a more targeted testing plan and more flexibility for players to attend meetings virtually. case counts fueled biome cron are rising at an alarming rate. the variant now detected in all 50 states, leading to long lines for tests. >> nearly three hours now. >> in new york city, the pandemic is dimming the holiday spirit, shutting down the radio city, rockettes. it's getting so bad in europe the mayor of london declared a major incident again. >> in the last 24 hours, we have had the largest number of new cases -- >> back in the u.s., doctors pleading with the public to get vaccinated as they brace for a dark winter. >> we never got back to our pre-pandemic levels. we're worried it continues to be busier in a very difficult time of year. >> it's like déjà vu, with no signs of omicron slowing down, some schools are going back to virtual learning and some universities will go remote for the rest of the year, and that list likely will grow. >> thank you. i want to bring in dr. natalie azar now into the conversation and she will answer some of your questions about what you have been tweeting me and what you can expect. thank you for doing this because i know folks are worried once again, as we are seeing our lives change dramatically, what we thought was going to happen over the holiday season obviously being incredibly different. can you gut check us for a moment here, how worried should we be? >> this is how i frame it, yasmin. if you are an individual who has been doing their part and following the science and, you know, leading with that and you are vaccinated and boosted and masking in indoor spaces, you as an individual will probably be okay. the people that i worry about are our health care workers. i worry significantly about the unvaccinated. i worry about individuals who put off taking care of chronic health conditions during the pandemic, and are now presenting with more advanced disease, whether that's cardiovascular, diabetes, things like that. again, if you have been doing the right things and you are protecting yourself and following the science at an individual level you will be okay, and i worry about the health of all the other individuals and worry about the disruption, and just listening to kathy talking about schools and everything, i am keeping my fingers crossed my kids will stay in the schools after the holidays as well. >> you and me as well, when you are thinking you are making the right decision by getting your kids vaccinated, and there still could be school closures. this is from fara, is the booster still effective for omicron? >> the answer is we don't know yet because we only have booster data out four weeks for pfizer and two weeks for moderna. that is antibody levels, four weeks after a booster, and in the case of moderna, four weeks after the booster. if we all talk about this, it's a three-shot series, it's a three-shot series, what does that mean when antibodies will start to wane, right? that's what they are supposed to do. your b cells and t cells and other parts of your immune system takes over to prevent from severe disease, and if the next follow-up question to this viewer's question is, if my booster does not last that long do i need another shot in six months, and the answer is maybe but we just don't know. you have two weeks after the booster where we know your antibodies will be at their maximum and then they start to decline about a month later and continue to decline there after. what that means in terms of breakthrough infections and all that, yasmin, way too early. we have no idea. >> this is so incredible to me, doctor, and we're learning as we go, right? >> yeah. >> we are all part of a study of the development of these vaccines and virus as we get these vaccines. let me get to another question here, and you mentioned cancer and autoimmune disease and folks' susceptibility to this. nobody asks how safe of those with cancer are even if boosted? >> it's not a one size fits all on that, because number one, different cancers and different audio immune diseases behave differently in terms of how they do, and it depends on what medications people are taking. some have no impact on vaccine response and some others have a dramatic impact, and so it's not a one size fits all and there are those that would behave like a person without those conditions, and then we worry about a lot of them because of a variety of different factors and their response to vaccinations is significantly different than the average person. >> last one. i will make this one quick. will we ever get rid of covid entirely? i think this is literally the best question and i asked this for everybody in my circle? >> yeah, it would be a one-word answer, and it's no. it will be here like the seasonal flu. we just hope it's at a point where we can have a mild respiratory tract infection where we all survive. >> oh, covid! dr. natalie azar, thank you. thank you for being the gut check that we need right now. we appreciate it. coming up, everybody, we return to our top story with more reaction of senator manchin's decision to vote no on the build back better bill. more on that after the break. mok . any further questions? uh uh! one up the power of liquid with tide pods ultra oxi. 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ask your health care provider today about once-weekly ozempic®. oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! you may pay as little as $25 for a 3-month prescription. mom, hurry! our show's gonna start soon! i promised i wouldn't miss the show and mommy always keeps her promises. oh, no! seriously? hmm! it's not the same if she's not here. oh. -what the. oh my goodness! i don't suppose you can sing, can you? ♪ the snow's comin' down ♪ -mommy? ♪ i'm watching it fall ♪ watch the full story at www.xfinity.com/sing2 welcome back. it's the no word around the country. senator joe manchin saying he will not vote for the build back better act, effectively killing it. listen to this. >> i always said this, brett, if i can't go back home and explain it to the people of west virginia, i cannot vote for it. i cannot vote to continue with this piece of legislation, i just can't. i have tried everything humanly possible and i can't get there. >> you are done, this is a no? >> this is a no on this legislation. i have tried everything i know to do. >> democratic representative, debbie dingell joining us now. thank you for joining us. your reaction? >> i never thought i would call joe the grinch who stole christmas, and i am stunned and nobody had a heads up that this was coming and the white house made that clear. i will not accept it. i will not accept the fact that i have too many people in my district that want to see the cost of their insulin lowered, and since i walk in the door of the congress i have been fighting to help people stay in their own homes when they need long-term care. when you look at the weather that we have seen across the country because of global warming and our younger people are saying, what are you doing to us? what are you doing to protect future generations? there's too much work that has to be done. we cannot accept joe manchin's no, we have to figure out how to deliver to the american people on a lot of issues and there are a lot of issues that impact their lives every day. >> the progressive arm of your party is essentially saying we knew this was going to happen, we knew this was going to happen. it's exactly the reason why we held off on voting or held off on wanting to vote for hard infrastructure, and we knew once hard infrastructure was passed we knew joe manchin would back off build back better, and that's what happened, so why is that surprised? >> the fact of the matter is i do not regret my vote on the infrastructure bill for one minute, because we are already seeing the money in that bill making a difference, and we could not sit there -- >> so you don't -- i don't mean to cut you off. >> we needed to start to do it, and so having either bill is not the answer, but joe manchin he has to look the seniors in west virginia in the eye that are desperate to lower the cost of heart medicine or insulin, and say, sorry, just got to keep paying for more money. he obviously stunned the world today. we got to do something. we cannot accept his no as a no. >> what does do something look like, congresswoman? >> a lot of us will have to start talking again about what that means. does the president have any ability to get joe manchin to change his mind? i already started tables and bringing people together to talk about some of the issues he cares about, like electric vehicles, but we can't say no to people who worry about the cost of their prescription drugs, and we can't say no to caring about child care and seniors that need long-term care. we will have to start tomorrow to figure out how we can get that bill passed however we got to do it. >> quickly here, congresswoman, looks like there's ideas forming in the party to approach this in a piecemeal manner, and he has said n-o to the build back better, so maybe look at passing small incremental things. >> i think we have to take a big breath and understand why joe manchin did what he did when he did it. it's stunning. i can't believe he did it this way. we have to figure out how we are going to -- the pieces in there are too critical to tomorrow people not to move it forward, and we have to find out a way to get these things done. >> debbie dingell, thank you. coming up, debbie debbie wasserman schultz is going to be joining me. but first, tony, good to see you. i want to stick with the idea of being surprised, and representative dingell saying she was surprised and shocked and also shocked by the way he delivered this and the timing to which he delivered this n-o vote on fox news to build back better. what do you make of that? >> i think there's surprise over the substance and surprise over the process. in terms of the substance, joe manchin telegraphed for months now that he has concerns, and the three areas he outlined today in speaking with fox news is that he was concerned about inflation, and geopolitical concerns and generally the debt are things he said back in september when he called on the democrats to hit the pause button on the bill, and he came out and issued the statement and said in days after he met with the white house. so it seemed to stun the people that this is how the year is going to end. they could go through the month's long process to win senator manchin's support and end up with him issuing a fiery statement. >> where do you suspect the hold up is for senator manchin? we know the committee on taxation said this thing would be paid for -- the congressional budget office, it was not as straightforward, we should say, and we know manchin said he was holding out for that report. where do you think the major sticking point is for manchin? do you think this is something the president can feesly resolve, that this could be a negotiating tactic? >> the issue seems to be the math here. democrats started with what was a $3.5 trillion proposal, and got it down to $1.7 and now it's at about $2 trillion, and they whittled down their bill, and now in the eyes of democrats that was a good way to do it because you cut the cost of the package, and senator manchin saw that as a gimmick because he knows the dems would like to take the short-term programs and make them permanent, and so they pointed to the fact that the package was paid for in full, and he said, yeah, sure, but only over a short period of time. i think both sides think they are making legitimate arguments about the package and the negative effects it could have, and it speaks to a mental divide, and senator manchin wants it at $1.5 trillion and all of the spending over ten years is going to require democrats to make sizeable cuts, really big cuts, not just to the numbers but in removing individual components just to get down to the price tag. >> tony, thank you so much for your reporting on this. we appreciate it. meanwhile, former president trump is unleashing a slew of lies about the capitol hill insurrection, some old and some new. the former president falsely claimed that he requested 10,000 national guard troops ahead of his stop the steal rally to give proper protection to attendees, and he falsely claimed ashli babbitt because the only to die, in fact four others lost their lives. as the former president talks the january 6th committee is continuing their work. one member of the committee says they have not ruled outgoing after some of their own house colleagues. in the next hour, we will have more on the latest targets of the january 6th investigation. >> -- responsibility for that riot? >> it's possible. >> we will pursue everything to the ends of the earth, and we don't like going here but that includes members of congress. >> we will talk more about the january 6th investigation coming up in our next hour, as i just mentioned. you will want to join me tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern for a special, taking a deep dive on what happened on that day and what can be done to make sure it never happens again. that's tonight, 9:00 p.m. eastern only on msnbc. i will stay up all the way until that time, and you better, too. it's sunday night. we will be back, everybody. it's the most joyous time of year. especially at t-mobile! let's go to dianne. i got the awesome new iphone 13 pro and airpods, and t-mobile is paying for them both! and this is for new and existing customers. upgrade to the iphone 13 pro and airpods both on us. only at t-mobile. nurse mariyam sabo knows a moment this pure... ...demands a lotion this pure. new gold bond pure moisture lotion. 24-hour hydration. no parabens, dyes, or fragrances. gold bond. champion your skin. look! oh my god... i want my daughter riley to know about her ancestors and how important it is to know who you are and to know where you came from. ♪ we're discovering together... it's been an amazing gift. ♪ y'all heard it here. if you wanna be fresh, you gotta refresh, like subway®. like the new baja steak & jack tender, thicker-cut steak and. wait sooo you're not coming out of retirement? 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(excited yell) woo-hoo! ensure max protein. with thirty grams of protein, one gram of sugar, and nutrients to support immune health. welcome back. in the spotlight today a podcast that usually focuses on legal issues took a very big turn in its latest episode to deal with the looming fears over the economy and specifically inflation. harry litman gathered an all-star group for a deep dive on the issue. >> one thing i have been trying to sort out in my own reporting, if you are an average or typical family what this has felt like and meant for you as a whole, because a lot of those families who got stimulus payments, they are coming up far ahead, and people hate inflation, and in a way that goes beyond their experience of it and i think it's worth taking that seriously as well as we are talking about taking it seriously, as a policy program that folks are going to have to deal with. >> there's two parts of this. there's a part of it that is about the psychology of inflation that has to do with the fact that people may be getting their 5% wage increase because there's inflation, and without inflation they would have gotten a 2% wage increase, but they think they got a 5% wage increase because they were great and not because of the inflation, so they blame the inflation for the bad stuff but don't credit the inflation for the good stuff. >> former u.s. attorney and host of "talking feds" is joining me now. talk to me. you usually focus on legal issues, and we found it important this time around to talk about inflation and the economy, why? >> this was a day when inflation hit a 40-year high, and it was important in and of itself but also the psychological and political impacts. we like to mix it off, and we often do current events one, and yesterday we spoke about the republicans, where will they go from here, and christine, todd whitman, and michael steele, so maybe every five times or so we will do a topical one, and then tomorrow we will return to familiar folks and talking about the events of the week, so we like to mix it up. >> i was listening to you talk about inflation, because the economy is doing quite well especially when you think about economic recovery in regards to what we have dealt with over the last two years with covid, and she talks specifically about how inflation affects people, and if you have money in your bank account, you go to the store and find out meat costs more than it used to, and it's real and affecting folks. what was your biggest takeaway from this? >> my biggest takeaway was, a, it's totally real and there's a real risk that kind of gallops of what is the economy, but it's a death ray for the biden administration. there's nothing they can do and it's up to the fed and private sector and they take the blame and it really is sort of a black cloud looming over the economy and the midterms, as it has not been, as i said, in 40 years. >> harry, thank you for now. i will need you to stick around here and i want to talk about january 6th in the next hour and the developments there. make sure you tune in to "talking feds" wherever you get your podcasts. thank you, terry. talk to you in a bit. she supported her child being trans, and so the state separated them. is that just the beginning? and then you don't want to miss the revvie's, and then a live politics nation right here on msnbc. tide pods dissolve even when the water is freezing. nice! if it's got to be clean, it's got to be tide. trelegy for copd. ♪ birds flyin' high ♪ ♪ you know how i feel ♪ (coughing) ♪ breeze driftin' on by ♪ ♪ you know how i feel ♪ copd may have gotten you here, but you decide what's next. start a new day with trelegy. ♪ ...feelin' good ♪ no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier and improves lung function. it also helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. take a stand and start a new day with trelegy. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy. and save at trelegy.com. welcome back to a shocking story in new york magazine about katy churchill. a mother from michigan who after lengthy chort battles was separated from her children, all for supporting her middle child's gender exploration. child protective services argue $in court she was pushing her child, who now has settled into he/him pronouns to identify as trans. a shocking charge that churchill denies. the children were ultimately placed in the custody of their father, who admitted in court, by the way, to abusing katee on at least two occasions. joining me now to talk about this case and how it represents a disturbing trend in custody battles amongst families with lgbtq children. thanks four joining us on this. we appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> this has been an incredibly long process for namly. walk us through what happened. >> yeah. so this started back when, um, katy's middle child was 3. when he started, um, exploring his -- his gender presentation and his use of pronouns. um, and cps got involved one time and the judge found there was no abuse or neglect, um, but then a year later, they brought another case and that case resulted in katee's loss of custody of her kids. >> how does that happen when you have a father admitting in court that he abused katy twice? >> yeah, that is a good question. um, interestingly, the domestic violence -- although, it was brought up in court, it was not ever a factor in the -- in the custody decisions. so -- so, the -- you know, the dad -- his name's chris -- he got custody even though it came up in trial, and it was -- it seemed that it was more focused on katee's parenting. exclusively, on katee's parenting. >> i want to be clear here, you actually spoke to fin and fin made it clear to you that being trans was, in fact, his choice. i can't imagine how traumatic this experience has been not only for her other dhirn but fin as well. what else did he say to you? >> yeah. fin, um, is a really smart kid. and um, he -- he explained the experience in really physical terms. so he said when he thinks about his gender, his stomach hurts. and so, he tries not to think about it. um, and so, he -- he really tries to, he said -- he -- he's really into famous wars. he is like focused on learning stuff and thinking about things because he said, um, when he -- when he thinks about his gender, it makes him uncomfortable. >> that's so sad to hear. i hate that for him. um, you are seeing the trend in your reporting. the aclu is adding the idea that people are being pressured to be trans in a world that has such unrelenting pressure to be cis is absurd. what are we seeing? >> yeah. um, so a lot of attorneys are seeing this play out in custody cases. there was a pretty famous custody case in texas involving a trans girl named luna younger and that sort of kicked off a wave of this. but the cps involvement is an additional concern, um, because it's actually state intervention. and since that story published, i have had at least one other mom reach out to me in a different part of the country saying that she's experienced very similar situation with her kid. >> wow. thank you so much for joining us on this your incredibly important reporting on is this story. more reaction to senator's big no on president biden's build back better bill. we are going to hear from congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz on whether the bill is dead or just mostly dead. >> it just so happened your friend here is only mostly dead. there is a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. the snapshot app from progressive rewards you for driving safe and driving less. okay, what message did you hear this time? safe drivers can save using snapshot? -what's snapshot? -what the commercial was about. -i tune commercials out. -me too. they're always like blah, blah blah. tell me about it. i'm going to a silent retreat next weekend. my niece got kicked out of one of those. -for talking? -grand larceny. how about we get back to the savings? 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