house -- then >> senator, could you please not allow the opportunity to respond. >> how biden nominees were held hostage because he wanted an apology. plus the right-wing plan to care turn clean energy into the new critical energy. plus boosters and the latest variant. >> when you get a booster, you dramatically increase the level of projected protection. >> all in starts right now. >> good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, today the january six committee announced it is moving forward with criminal contempt proceedings against mark meadows. donald trump's former chief of staff. now this comes after meadows told the committee he would no longer be cooperating with them and their investigation, and would not appear for his scheduled deposition today. that is despite being subpoenaed. -- a scorching letter to meadows condemning his actions and detailing some key documents meadows has already turned over to the committee. those thousands of pages included emails, text, about the planning that took place ahead of the insurrection on january 6th. meadows turned over a november 7th 2020 email discussing the appointment of alternative slates of electors as part of a direct and collateral attack after the election. on january 5th 2021 email regarding a 38-page powerpoint briefing titled, election fraud foreign interference and options are january six. that was to be provided on the hill. another email from that same day, the day before the insurrection, about having the national guard on standby. that is interesting. meadows also provided the committee with a number november six 2020 exchange with a member of congress apparently about pointing alternate electors in certain states as part of a plan the member acknowledge would be highly controversial, and to which meadows apparently said, quote, i love it. another text exchange this one from early january 2021, between meadows and an organizer of the january 6th rally -- chairman thompson ended the letter with this. the select committee is left with no choice, but to advance contempt proceedings and recommend the body in which mr. meadows once served refer him for criminal prosecution. now here's the thing, all of that stuff that i just laid out that is detailed in that letter is already a lot of evidence for the committee to work with. it is right there in black and white. mark meadows may not want to cooperate, but he can't take any of that back. although that doesn't mean he won't try. last night meadows spoke to fox news and attempted to contradict his own evidence claiming the white house did not know about what was going to happen on january 6th. >> we can all condemn what happened on january 6th and rightfully so, but i'm not aware of anybody in the west wing that had any advanced knowledge that the security was going to be breached at the capitol. boy, and he advanced knowledge that the security was going to be breached at the capitol. very specific lawyer lee denial. meadows literally turned over an email about the committee having a national guard on standby that day. the reality is, mark meadows wrote a book that has angered donald trump, and so he now finds himself between appeasing the boss and criminal referral. he cannot take either back. he can't take back what he already turned over to the committee, and he can write the book. today the chairman of the committee did not hold back in his criticism of meadows publishing the book, in which she talks about january six while refusing to cooperate with their investigation. quote, he would sell his telling of the facts of that day while denying a congressional committee the opportunity to ask him about the attack on the capitol. now the book in question is titled the chiefs chief, and it was released just yesterday it's already gotten meadows in a lot of trouble in is part of the reason why he now finds himself in this position facing criminal contempt charges. the book is reportedly, and often but i have it ready i've only web certain selections. the report quite revealing, perhaps it tells us a lot about meadows's character and that his former boss donald trump. one anecdote and particularly that stands out from october last year, that's when donald trump had covid and tested positive 60s before we knew as disclosed in the meadows book. meadows writes about the day where the foreign president was leaving to be hospitalized because he had covid for so long they were covering up. he says trump laid his briefcase on the floor and apologize for being unable to carry it because he is so weak. according to meadows, trump said i am sorry, i just can't carry that out there. that is a very sick man. it took a while to get their, and the president was so sick and so weak from the virus he did not have the strength to carry his own briefcase. so meadows and another aide -- were left to decide who would take it out for him. meadows writes we stared at each other in silence for moment wondering who would pick up the possibly contaminated briefcase, although i'm sure don would have if i hesitated for a second longer i ended up being the one to square on some hand sanitizer, bend down, and grab it. he continued, as i walk with president shrunk towards marine one, he looked down at the briefcase in my hand seemingly impressed. trump said, i knew you were my guy. i mean. there is a lot there. but just to know, that was trump's approach to the entire pandemic. that if you want to be loyal to him, you should probably just go out there and get the disease. right? like that is how you show your loyalty to donald trump. don't hide in your house, get out there. get sick. now mark meadows loyalty to trump clearly continues on to this day, arguably the wreath and while he would likely be held in criminal contempt, but he certainly not the trump ally that feels that way. steve bannon has of course already been charged with contempt of congress after he refused to comply with a subpoena from the committee. yesterday we learned bannon will not face -- about wanting his case to wait even longer until october. the committee is also recommending to contend charge for former trump department of justice official jeffrey clark who aided trump in his attempts to overturn the election. they are currently holding off on referring the charge to the doj as clark is scheduled to provide a deposition next week, though clark has that he will plead the fifth. john eastman the lawyer who wrote the now infamous coup memo outlining a plan to keep trump in power against the will of the voters has also been subpoenaed and also been reportedly plans to plead the fifth, as those trump's longtime ally roger stone who has refused to turn over documents or speak with the committee. there are however plenty of others who are cooperating, including one of the main organizers of the stop the steal rally which brought trump supporters to washington on january 6th. his name is ali alexander, he is that to testify in front of the committee tomorrow in response to a subpoena issued to him late last month. the new york times reports that he had nothing to do with any violence or lawbreaking on january 6th, but has pledged to supply the committee with voluminous documents -- as a reporter for the new york times or he has been covering the story and he joins me now. luke, let's just start with setting off who alexander is for folks who might not know the name. what his role was, and what we know about his cooperation. >> sure, yes. so ali alexander is a right-wing provocateur. he was the person who first really amplified the stop the steal narrative and started pushing it out at rallies first in arizona, and then indifference lakes across the country. ali alexander claims that he, along with three members of congress, schemed up the idea of the january 6th rally at the capitol to put maximum pressure on members of congress and hear this loud roaring crowd cheering them on to throughout the votes of biden electors and install mr. trump as president for another term despite the will of the voters. so he has taken the step of now complying with the committee's subpoena. so he is scheduled to come tomorrow, he has already supplied an opening statement to the committee, and he is pledging to get them many many documents. one of the things he has already emphasizing as he is trying to insulate himself from blame, for the violence, that occurred that day. he is starting to blame others. he is saying other organizers at these rallies did not take the appropriate steps to prevent violence, he is in a dispute with some of them over some language where they were to direct the crowd after the rally, and he is saying that he tried to stem the violence while they hung out at a fancy hotel and drink champagne in his words. >> yeah and i think there is a commonality here amongst -- we know the rally was planned, it was publicized, we thought on television that day, there were buses that brought people, in donations to people who brought in the buses. people on various social media posts, we know, that that's all public record, it's been disputed, established. the dispute for people like ali alexander, it's true of -- to the extent that i can see is they are trying to slice these salami fairly thin which is yes we planned this rally as covered by the right -- and free speech but what we didn't plan was the criminal invasion and violent confrontation with police that happened subsequently. that is sort of the case they are trying to hold up. >> yes. i would say that that is the main defense that many of the rally organizers and planners of january 6th have put forward. yes we spread -- we all know for all's information about widespread election fraud, yes we riled up the crowd, yes we tried to get votes thrown now and keep president trump in power against the will of the people as we know the true election results were for president biden. but they say largely why is maybe violent rhetoric, or heated rhetoric, and not a coordinated attack on the capitol. now of course we do know from court documents and the federal cases that are going on that there was court -- for some of the attack in these extremist groups, and so the question i think on the january 6th committee is trying to connect the dots between some planned attacks and planned violence that we do know about, and overall planners of the rally and the objections in congress and how those to the extent to which those things are related and connected. >> all right luke broadwater great reporting, thank you for filling us in on that. i want to bring in congresswoman zoe lofgren who is a member of the select committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol. first i want to get your response, congresswoman, on meadows announcement that he is no longer cooperating and his failure to show up for this the piano, the position tonight. >> well, he is all red legally. he said 2000 text messages where he would not have sent it to us asked him about those. he said a thousands, more than 6000 emails from two private email accounts. obviously he did not think those were privileged. some of these documents were -- communication while the rate was going on. and the events leading up to the riot. so to think that somehow he does not have to tell the committee about the things that he sent over is simply wrong. also a bothers me a bit has that he is not making money off a book -- relaying conversations he said he had with the president, but he doesn't want to come in and talk to the committee about those conversations. that is not what the law really envisions. so next week the committee will be meeting to consider referring mr. meadows for criminal contempt, we expect the house to take that up next week as well, and the senate to the department of justice. so that is >> the plan just to reiterate your point here. steve bannon obviously everyone watching the case agreed the executive privilege invitation to the extent there was one was as flimsy as humanly possible with, right? he's not an employee. he's not the current president. the current president has not asserted this privilege. meadows was someone who clearly was the chief of staff and was with the current president might obtain, but it does seem like you leave a lot of the argumentation when you hand over the documents that you published a book for profit. is that -- your understanding of the legal situation? >> he's already made the determination that the documents he said to us or not privileged. that's why he sent them to us. so does there we can ask him about that is just legally indefensible. and also there is such a thing as waiver, once you start talking to others about it, then you can't claim while i'm not going to tell the congress i'm only going to make money off the book. that is not the way it works. so i am disappointed that mark has can louis rue. it is improper. why -- we have a lot of information. we worked very hard, we got thousands and thousands of -- over 30,000 documents. we have more than 250 witnesses who are having interviews practically every day. we are putting the pieces together, no one witness has all the information. but meadows does have some information that we are going to need and we hope to get it we will piece it together from. others, if he continues to defy his obligations under the law. >> yeah i want to segway to that precisely for that reason obviously we have covered the high profile cases of folks refusing steve bannon now meadows, the back and forth with jeffrey clark the fact that others are planning to invoke their fifth amendment rights for non incrimination coming before you. but you know, the ali alexander news to me was interesting and so far as the broader scope and context here, when you look at the chairman's other about the documents that he has won. you have a lot of people, i'm just curious how you feel it going in terms of putting the picture together? well we have a lot of evidence, and we've got an ever clearer picture. but we're not done yet. i will say also, in terms of the fifth amendment if people think that what they have done would constitute as a crime. the fifth amendment allows them not to testify against themselves but there is a provision that allows the committee to give, what is called, -- immunity. that we will not use the testimony that they give us. we will not provide that to the department of justice. so we have to consider that possibility to. and if we decide to go that route. then we would be required to answer the question. >> yes, you don't want to end up in the sanity of the -- case. but you'll figure out whether you will be getting that. congresswoman, zoe lofgren, think you so much. >> thank you so much. >> all right, there's been a lot of news about the only current variant. honestly, it's been very hard to know what to make of. it there's a lot of discussion, it's all preliminary. on the other hand we're getting some new data that seems pretty concerning about evading vaccine protection. there is also encouraging statements from the fire ceo about their boosters efficacy against this specific variant. and i've been trying very hard in the last 24 hours, 48 hours, to push all this data and figure out how we should be thinking what lies in front of us. and we're going to do that together with some really smart guest, next. guest, next. i've been telling everyone... the secret to great teeth is having healthy gums. crest advanced gum restore. detoxifies below the gumline... and restores by helping heal gums in as little as 7 days. crest. the #1 toothpaste brand in america. all done? for rob, it took years to find out why his constipation with belly pain just wouldn't go away. despite all he did to manage his symptoms... day after day. still came the belly pain, discomfort, and bloating, awful feelings he tried not showing. finally with the help of 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vaccine. now, one year later we have even more evidence of just how well those vaccines work against the fight against the virus. pfizer announced that their own preliminary research says that the booster shot provide strong protection against the new omicron variant. we should be clear, this data has not been in peer review. and they are announcing it. it's going to require further scrutiny from the cdc. even though this announcement has a lot of people feeling optimistic about the new vermont, including doctor anthony fauci. >> the pfizer data gives us now very important information, that although this diminution of the effect of a two dose vaccine, when you get a booster, you dramatically increase the level of projected protection by about 25 fold. which means that people who get boosted after their two dose mrna should really do quite well. that's why we're projecting that we will see clinically. >> yes, that's very good news but it's still early, very early, and lots of people have been boosted. the new variant is only a few weeks old, there's still a lot we do not know. and there still a bunch of questions that need answering. i am joined now by two people who are going to help me unpack what we know and we don't know. doctor céline gounder, she served on the biden advisory board. and doctor eric topol, writer of the ground truth blog on substack who has been following all of this very closely. doctor eric topol, let me start with you. because i think we have three new preliminary data sets out in the last 24 hours. from different labs basically conducting experiments on how the omicron viral variant interacts with the antibody response in vaccinated individuals. >> give us a gloss of the finding there. >> good to be with you chris. and my friend celine. what we have are now five studies. it's exploding new knowledge, and we don't have anything on shelves yet. but what we do have is that antibody response. it is at least 25 to 40 full increase were which we would expect with the booster. because after the amount of reduction that is currently with only karoun. on the court has this feature of the munich-scape which because of all its mutations of the virus. and so the good thing is that doctor fauci said in your opening is that we can get omicron effectiveness back with the vaccine with this third shot. so it's encouraging, as you said, it's a new variant and we don't have durable information that is how long with that effectiveness respiration last. but this neutralization antibody problem with omicron, looks like there's a workaround with the booster. >> i just want to recite that. you've got a ton of mutations on this virus. the mutations in the virus are acting to essentially disguise it from antibodies. that the body has created to go find the virus. and it slipping past them because it has put on a disguise. so if you will. and so that slipping pass, the protection given by the antibodies produced by the vaccine, the scale of that, dr. celine, it seems like my take away from reading the conversation on this, the scale of that evasion my understanding is that the people looking at this data thought it was not great but not as terrible as the feared. does that seem like a fair characterization? >> chris, i think that's about right. another way to think about this is as if antibodies are like pieces of velcro. in which one piece of velcro would've worked to stick to the old variant. maybe now you need ten or 20 pieces of velcro but as long as you increase that level of antibodies those pieces can still get around it. and that's really what the booster does. and the good news is that you can work around it with an extra dose of vaccine. and probably for most people who got two doses they are still well protected with severe disease, hospitalization, and death. but given what we are seeing with these neutralization antibodies it probably is the right thing at this stage to get the extra dose. to give you extra protection against the immune evading properties of the omicron variant. >> i think that this sort of now message on boosters but -- i mean, i've got in the booster, i've been urging people near to get the booster. in terms of what we can expect from this eric topol, this is where we got people 71% vaccinated. only 24.4% boosted. now some percent of those people have been vaccinated within the window so they don't necessarily need to be boosted because they have been recently vaccinated. but if omicron is going to evade antibody response and that is our car number, that doesn't add up to something awesome it seems like to me. >> far from it chris. so firstly, it's important to note that in the journal today, there was a big study that showed that the booster reduced death by 90% for people over age 50. in a very large steady committee. so our problem right now, as you all know and have emphasized, we have 100 something thousands of cases a day. we are in the second delta surge. but now, the extra bonus of the booster that would work for delta is that it would also make a difference for omicron. you know the other point that we must end is a good one. because it's a story that helps prevent the severe illness, the hospitalization and death. and we are hoping of course, that the two dose vaccine will make a big difference there. we are woefully under vaccinated. under boosted in this country. because if you look at age 50 and above, we are at most a third or 40% of those people at high risk. we've got to give the booster and of course the primary vaccination because that is how we are feeling to contain delta. >> yes. that's a great point. delta right now is killing 1000 people a day of our fellow citizens? we have brutal numbers that continue. part of the problem here is that with the safe and effective vaccine available, it is politically unattainable. doctor gounder says that you can close down bars because that is the kind of break glass situation, you got the vaccine, but you can put people out of the -- business. and yet that means that there's a lot of areas for infection. one thing that ryan cooper wrote about in the week, that i think should get more attention, is just focusing on air flow and how we move air around buildings. one would think that sitting in a tin can for hours with people packed in like sardines, would be a huge infection risk. but airlines have rapid air purification systems that both continuingly introduced new fresh, air filter through hospital great help of filters. sure enough, despite hundreds of million people have flown over the past 20 months, there only a few dozen confirmed cases on airlines. it seems like this is a place that we really should have been focusing on for the last 20 months i need to focus on even more now, doctor céline gounder. >> so the indoor quality air at hovered have been on this topic. we have really focused on improving indoor air quality, ventilation and air fruit filtration in schools. there is over 170 billion dollars in the american rescue plan. and other legislation that allocates funding tes fundinand as i said, fundinh the schools to make these kinds of infrastructure upgrades. but that has to be planned and the school district level. school districts need to assess their buildings, come up with infrastructure plans. work with vendors to do that. and then spend the money. and that is not an easy task for school districts to do. >> i will say this. you can buy help of filters. they are not cheap, but they're also not astronomically expensive. you can get word of them online and you can put those in spaces. everybody who is running building should be looking into doing that. consulting with people, dr. céline gounder and dr. eric topol, thank you both. top biden nominee who draws in contention with patterns, next. i don't mean any disrespect, i don't know whether to call you a professor or comrade. >> senator, i am not a communist. t. vicks sinex. instantly clear everyday congestion. and try vicks sinex children's saline. you may remember a couple of safe and gentle relief for children's noses. weeks ago, we played this sound from the senate hearing. it sounded out of 1940's 1950's. where they grilled witnesses and asked if you've been a member of the communist party. >> you used to be a member of the group called the young communists. didn't you? >> senator, are you referring to my membership in the youth communist organization while i was growing up in the soviet union? >> i just wanted to ask you that question. have you resigned? >> bell from the? >> from the young communists? >> you go out of it with age. >> did you send them a letter though, resigning? >> senator, this was many years ago as far as i remember how the soviet union works is that at a certain age you automatically stop being a member. >> can you look at your records and see if you can find a copy? i don't mean any disrespect. i don't know whether the call you a professor or comrade full. >> senator, i am not a communist. >> that was republican senator jon kennedy of louisiana, interrogating saule omarova, who was born in the soviet union where the membership was compulsory. which explains the red baiting from the senator. saule omarova was president joe biden's nominee for the treasury department, the one that oversees the banking industry. keep in mind, she previously worked in george w. bush's treasury department. many democrats did not want to in that position because they are donors in the financial industry, among the banks are afraid of someone competent overseeing the banks. so they use this preposterous and gross attacks. guess what? it worked. she formally withdrew her nomination yesterday. rejected from public service of the karma being born in a country that does not even exist anymore. it would not be the first time a qualified nominee was denied a job in the government for reasons as such. i keep thinking of, one a woman named cassandra. she was president barack obama's nominee to service invested or to the bahamas. in fact, she works in the white house. i knew her biden. she is a qualified public servant. with decades of working government for nonprofits under her belt. but republican senator, tom cotton, of arkansas, blocked her nomination for 835 days. and i don't think it was because she was uncontroversial or -- but because she was an old friend. she later told a reporter that senator compton told her quote, blocking her was a way to inflict special pain on the president. >> cassandra fell unexpectedly ill and died of leukemia in 2016. after waiting two years for a confirmation vote that never came. today, senator cotton is at it again. >> i would be happy to come from these nominees in the following few minutes. if the senator from illinois would simply express regret for what happened in the hearing that day. >> tom cotton's feelings are hurt. more on that next. re on that next. new gold bond pure 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here afterwards to hear the completion of your remarks. >> so, like the senator explained, he was forced to move things along with the republicans trying to do a procedural trick. to prevent them from voting that day. but cotton refused to accept that. >> during the nomination, minutes into my 15-minute remarks, the chairman of the committee, cut off my remark midsentence. to call for a vote in violation of the committee rules. there must be consequences when the democrats break the rules. and here is what the consequences are going to be in this case. i will refuse consent or time agreements for the nomination of any u.s. attorney of any state represented by democrats on the judiciary committee. >> now, it's a bad faith argument by senator cotton. the only reason that it happens is because republicans try to procedural trick that force of democrats to cut off his questioning. and instead of acknowledging white have, been cotton stopped five u.s. attorneys from being confirmed for nearly eight months. luckily, none of them died of leukemia while waiting. and his justification has not improved over those eight months, this is what he said just yesterday. >> i reiterated today, i would be happy to come from these nominees. in the following few minutes. if the senator from illinois would simply express regret for what happened in the hearing that day. and commit that it won't happen to me again. >> moments later, he expressed regret, and those five year attorneys were confirmed. and the only reason they were confirmed earlier is because tom cotton was having a performative tantrum. just another breakdown of government in the republican party. he had a front row seat, he is a former deputy chief of staff, the senate democratic leader, he is the author of kill switch, the rise of the modern senate, and the crippling of american democracy. he is not the executive director of a nonprofit organization. now, adam jentleson, let's be clear. senators as a rule are egomaniacs and a little nuts. and they really don't like when people tried on their territory. and across the political and ideological -- will often zealously guard their turf. given that context. this cotton's performance fall in the category of the normal? or is it out in the abnormal range? >> no. it's absolutely far out in the abnormal range. and i think what's important to understand is that if he was giving a speech on that floor, and he would cut off. that would be one thing. but committee hearings drag on for hours an hours. the chair has to interrupt frequently to let members know what's happening, giving updating on the proceedings. and it's not like there was many people in attendance anyway. so you know, to be interrupted in the middle of a hearing, by the chair to give an update that was relevant to every other member who was there, and that was being forced on him by republicans as you mentioned is entirely part of the status quo. and for cotton to react the way he did is far outside the norm. >> yes, and it's also reminded that the senator rules are just this mysterious techs that very few people understand. you need unanimous consent to do anything, but the senate has to do a lot of, things they have to rely on that, and i guess the argument is that if you have to allow consent, it forces people to work together and find accommodations for each other. but often, it looks like there's eight u.s. attorneys that have been confirmed. and everyone would be better off in the public interest if they had been. yes, that's right. senators exercise a lot of power. not like the house senators have a lot of control into themselves. but there is something different about senator cotton. there's something uniquely grew lush about him. he has been in the senate for coming on six or seven years now. he has never accomplished anything. and he seems to take sort of a perverse pleasure in using these opportunities to twist the knife on democrats. this seems to be why he exist in the senate. i was there when he blocked cassandra. she was a friend of mine. it was deeply heartbreaking then. he clearly has not learned anything. he clearly regrets nothing about that episode. but this seems to be what gets him up in the morning and gives him purpose in his service in the united states senate. and i think that's deeply sad. so, the other big news is that there is some deal that i can even make sense of. they are going to raise the debt ceiling with a onetime vote to evade the filibuster so that the vote for the one that would raise the debt ceiling without the filibuster doesn't count. as a bill to raise the debt ceiling, it's procedural nonsense. but it's the way the senate functions. and a lot of people said elizabeth warren said that if you can make this is election here, why not make it in other places? >> senator rulings are what senators want them to be. there is this myth of tradition that it likes to sort of wrap itself up as an institution. but really, what it is, it's over 200 years of history of people who are doing what is politically convenient at the time and shouting it in the grand myths of prediction. it's absolutely true. we are making an exception to the filibuster here because it is politically advantageous to mitch mcconnell. he doesn't want to have this fight because he's worried that if you filibustered the debt ceiling, it will go through with the new color option and change the rules. so he's making this as an exception. and senator warren is absolutely right. there's no principal reason why, if you're going to make an exception here you could make it on other things, such as voting rights. so hopefully, it's a weird thing that's happening right now, but hopefully this is a modest step forward towards rules reform. it is things like, this it's the small steps. it's things like senator cotton just driving senators crazy. it's sort of bills room at momentum for reform. that's the way it sort of happened in the past. and we're inching our way towards the outcome now. >> adam jentleson, thank you very much. critical race theory, now they're trying to copy paste that strategy on to a new target. critical energy theory. the right new woke bogeyman, after this. eyman, after this knows how to handle dry weather... ...and dry, cracked skin. new gold bond advanced healing ointment. restore healthy skin, with no sticky feeling. gold bond. champion your skin. ♪ ♪ 'tis the season to break tradition in a cadillac. don't just put on a light show—be the light show. make your nights anything but silent. and ride in a sleigh that really slays. because in a cadillac, tradition is yours to define. so visit a cadillac showroom, and start celebrating today. ♪ ♪ [♪♪] so visit a cadillac showroom, and start celebrating today. powerful skincare ingredients come dermatologist-recommended, and there's a brand that offers them at an affordable price. try olay skincare. olay regenerist, with 99% pure niacinamide provides 5 times the hydrating power of a prestige cream; while olay collagen peptide visibly firms and reduces the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles; and olay retinol 24 brightens and smooths the skin while you sleep. for dermatologist-recommended ingredients on the show, we have covered at an affordable price, try olay skincare. republican state legislators passing bill at the same time. things like voting rights restrictions, changing polling locations, hours of ballots. or critical race theory bands, we've been covering a lot of those. that low teaching, certain books, concepts and schools. and part of this is due to the natural flow of political movement. things become hot issues. but then there is this centralize organization called alec. which is the american legislative exchange pose. where they get together and craft model legislation and pass it around considering introducing it in their own state. an amazing new news, in the new republic, the next frontier for this group is basically taking language of the critical race theory bans. as well as the model of a very constitutionally dubious laws passed a stop -- mix them together in turn that legislation against any company looking to move away from fossil fuel. and any government agency passing rules of policy that my pressure or incentivize banks to stop letting to oil and gas companies. the terms that he uses is critical energy theory. a term that i'm sure no one has ever used. but maybe it will be coming to you soon. joining me now is kate aronoff, staff writer of the new republic covering climate. author of that amazing piece. it's really great reporting. i chuckle that the critical energy theory. headline. tell me first of all how you reported on this with alec. the center has been following the story for years. it has been really close to the ground tracking these conferences over the years since i was in touch with them, as well as the context, the sources that i had there. and just sort of getting updates on what was happening in particular as a climate reporter following the sort of energy module which was one of my many subject areas of the reporting on. so, the modules of voting rights on critical race theory, on any number of things and energies obviously a big concern which of course has gotten a lot of support over the years from the -- industry. >> so the idea is, and i'm gonna read from your piece, here the task force, met on friday, voted to back two pieces of metal legislation that portray climate policy even climate. so the mental frame that they are trying to evoke here is, if you are trying to do things as a private entity or government to get off fossil fuels, that is discriminatory. similar to that it is anti-israel or antisemitic to boycott that sort of the intellectual lineage, and what would the legislation do? >> yes, you're exactly right. this comes up as a couple of various places. it has passed in a number of states, and the legislation itself would really require companies or require controllers at the state level to create and maintain a list of financial companies which are boycotting energy companies. and so this was voted on unanimously and would require a pretty huge administrative lift. for places in the state. they don't have a ton of resources to do something like this. but they would be required to digress from companies. so pension funds, state pension funds would require a take out. any holdings, bank of america. and decided that they were going to digress and take on the fossil fuel industry. which they haven't. >> what is fascinating here is, what is good for the, goose is good for the gander. the climate movement has been putting more more pressure on financial firms, on pension funds to dive fast from fossil fuels, from oil and gas. the teachers union of california. things like. that because they see that as a lever, smartly. to get us off fossil fuels. so this is, like we are going to boycott the boycotters. the idea is that, if you listen to those will be headed activists who are trying to get you off oil and gas, then we, the state of arkansas, will no longer invest in your thing. >> right. and the idea is that these companies aren't doing that. the 60 biggest financial institutions in the five years since the paris agreement to spend 3.6 trillion dollars to finance fossil fuel projects. so it's responding to a problem that just doesn't exist. the financial sector is not taking climate change seriously. and, yet at the sort of inkling that they could, you see republicans really aggressively trying to drag this conversation into the cultural work space that they've grown very comfortable with during the trump administration. and also the way that they share the antibody ds loss. their model, almost exactly word for word on that, the idea is that, if your company, or an entity that decided to boycott israel for the occupied territories or the human rights abuse, which is a first amendment protected political expression, the state is going to punish you for that. by severing contracts, by -- and that idea has pointed to has been incredibly in dangerous. >> and this is a playbook that activists in the palestinian movement have been raising alarms about four years. because we know the right will pick and choose, will use different playbooks and pop them onto whatever they want. and that is exactly what folks who have been raising alarms about, these anti bts lows have been saying. is that we will see sooner or later that these will be applied to energy, to climate, to whatever it is that is happening right now. the thing i note here too, which i find interesting is. for a long time, the argument against alternative and fossil fuels is that they needed heavy subsidies and that the market was using fossil fuels but the government was propping up. you are just seeing the balance of that shift. it's just the cost structure. increasingly, what you're gonna see on the, right and you're seeing this in some states like wyoming, it is just straight upstate effort. state subsidies coercion used to keep dirty fuel going. even past the point in which the market is totally rejected because i think that this is showing us what's to come. great reporting, thank you for coming on. >> thank you for having me. >> that is all in, the rachel maddow show starts right now. good evening rachel.

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