good to be with you this thanksgiving. i'm katy tur. the investigation into the deadly attack on the capitol is entering a new stage. the d.c. court of appeals will take up the battle between congress and former president donald trump over white house documents now being held by the national archives. trump's attorneys argue that the request by the january 6th committee could damage the presidency broadly. the fight over those documents and the claims of executive privilege could ultimately land at the supreme court. meantime, the investigation by the bipartisan house panel has picked up speed with a cascade of new subpoenas issued in recent days, including to domestic extremist groups and trump supporters. the proud boys and the oath keepers. the committee says it wants to understand exactly how the violence erupted that day. those subpoenas followed dozens of others trump allies, including roger stone, who was pardoned by trump before he left office. and steve bannon along with other committee targets remaining defiant and challenging congress's authority in court. the pressure is on democrats to keep the public's attention ahead of the mid-term elections next year. more than a dozen democrats are not running for re-election in the house. democrats could lose their majority, and with that control of the house and control over the january 6th committee. joining me now is political white house editor sam stein, jonathan alter, republican strategist susan and university of michigan law professor and former u.s. attorney, barbara mcquaid. good to see you all of you on this thanksgiving day. when this goes to the d.c. court of appeals, barbara, what is your expectation? >> i think one thing that's really interesting is they just gave notice to party to say be prepared to answer this question: do we even have jurisdiction as the court to resolve this dispute? or is this, instead, a political dispute between the executive branch and the legislative branch? that signals to me a strong legal position for the legislative branch here for the production of these documents. i think, even aside from that, this claim of executive privilege is very weak in this instance. it is the sitting president who possesses the executive privilege with the weight to assert. donald trump can give his recommendation. but because joe biden has already waived it, i think it is a strong and likely result that we will see the committee get those documents. >> barbara, if this does end up going in front of the supreme court, what is your expectation on how they would decide this or whether they would even be willing to take it up? >> i think the most likely outcome would be to not take it up. we sometimes hear the phrase about the shadow docket where the court makes some significant procedural decisions that could have important consequences. i think it is quite likely that is the way they would deal with this case, look at it, decide if it does not present any new issues of law and let the court of appeals decision stand. >> hey, sam, looking at the subpoenas for the proud boys and the oath keepers, a lot of them are facing their own court appearances and their own legal troubles over the -- the insurrection. what could we potentially expect to see from them in terms of compliance? and does the committee have a better chance of getting them to comply given the legal trouble that we're already seeing with many of those members? >> well, first off, happy thanksgiving to you and the panelists. i think to your point, you know, one of the benefits of going far and wide with the subpoenas and document requests is that at some point you are going to run into someone who is on the other end of the subpoena who doesn't want to go through the excruciating political drama, the legal drama and all the associated legal bills that come with it. and if you are someone who is already embroiled in legal quagmire resulting from the actual insurrection itself, you may think twice about owning up to even more lawyer fees to fight a subpoena. now, the flip side of that is if you are going to the lower end, they may not have the type of insight or primary documentation that get you to questions about their actual plan on january 6th and the pre-planning of it. but then you start moving on from there. so i think this is what they are doing. they have cast an extremely wide net. it seems like they are going after virtually everyone who had some association with what happened on january 6th. and the hope, i presume is that some of these people say, yes, i comply and these people take those documents and try to flip over people. >> so there is potentially a time limit to this because i can't predict what's going to happen november of next year in the mid-terms, but usually the party who doesn't control congress and the white house ends up losing control of congress in the mid-term elections. that being said, when we look at what's happening in the january 6th committee and the way that steve bannon and roger stone are being defiant toward all of these subpoenas and painting themselves as martyrs, susan, how much is that going to energize trump's political effort or the republican political effort in 2022, or is it not going to energize it at all? >> it probably won't do much. at the end of the day, they're going to delay as much as they can and hope that the republicans take control of the house and the investigation goes away. but, you know, katy, we spend a lot of time focussing on these big, shiny names. the one thing that's been consistent throughout anything trump has done is it's sloppy and lazy. and i do think that there is a lot of lower-level people who have given information to the committee. let's not forget they conducted over 150 other interviews. that they are building upon and that you may not need bannon's testimony to get bannon's words let's say on an e-mail or a direction. >> i want to go big and broad with you in terms of what this means for our democracy. you are always so good at answering these questions. what does this all mean for our democracy. you have a former president who is refusing to comply with a congressional subpoena, trying to exert executive privilege, even though he does haven't the authority to do so per the courts, and you have a bunch of republicans who say they're not going to comply. other republicans saying what happened wasn't a big deal. it was a false flag operation or the people that stormed the capitol were actually peaceful protesters trying to completely whitewash over what happened that day. i just wonder, how do we recover from this? can we recover from this? >> you know, it is a good question. i don't have a definitive answer to it. i don't think anybody does. we have a democracy crisis in our country right now, and we have learned a little in the past few months since january 6th that there was a coup attempt. it wasn't successful, but it was much more detailed and planned both from the side of the lawyers and the planners of this horrific event. they wanted to stop the peaceful transfer of power which rests at the very center of our democracy. and this is what separates democracies from other forms of government, is the peaceful transfer of power. and that's what they were trying to disrupt. now, whether there will be accountability is, i think, a lot of what we're talking about right now. and i think the committee is off to a good start. they have subpoenaed 45 people. so i don't think we need to necessarily obsess about steve bannon roger stone. there are a lot of other people who know a lot, even if we learned just this week that some of the coup plotters were using burner phones when they're committing crimes. so they were committing a crime. they were attempting a coup against congress to interrupt the resolution of the 2020 election. so just sort of to end on a slightly more hopeful note, the battle for democracy is on, and it does have its defenders and all of us have to kind of buckle up and get ready for defining people in our politics, whether they're as either pro-democracy or anti-democracy, whatever party they're in. >> it is a precarious time. and i know we say this all the time, but i feel like it can't be understated that just the weird moment we are living in that could slide in any direction at the moment. barbara, let's talk about some other legal trouble that trump himself might be in. "the new york times" is out with some new reporting on that long-running criminal investigation by cy vance. now vance is going to leave the job soon. the times reports the probe has refocussed on whether trump inflated the value of his properties when he got loans. what do you make of this reporting? and i guess what should we expect? >> well, i think the fact that cy vance is retiring is probably not going to have much bearing on the outcome of this case. i know there are people who think they have got to hustle and get this case charged before he leaves, and i don't think that's the case at all. he's got a very capable successor who is a former federal prosecutor. he is quite capable of overseeing this investigation. the reporting is it's taken a new turn as opposed to looking at the individual tax treatment of executives, employees like allen weisselberg and the trump organization that this looks at trump himself and the organization for their undervaluing or overvaluing of the value of the properties depending on what they wanted. it was why they inflate the value if they wanted loans, deflate the value for the purpose of taxes, and that is a crime to engage in a scheme to defraud by making false statements to do so. that is a bread and butter fraud claim so it's a gift for prosecutors because it typically relies on documents and inconsistent statements around them. >> stick around. thank you guys for joining me today on this thanksgiving. i hope you have a happy one. and coming up, they were just found guilty on multiple counts of murder. but the men who killed ahmaud arbery are still facing another trial. this one a federal trial. more on the hate crimes charges they will face in february. also ahead, covid cases are now breaking records in parts of europe. will we in the united states be following suit as we have been? and later, it is one of the biggest shopping days of the year, but with all the supply chain issues, we are going to have a guide on what you should buy and when. is the planning effect. this is how it feels to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. this is what it's like to have a comprehensive wealth plan with tax-smart investing strategies designed to help you keep more of what you earn. and set aside more for things like healthcare, or whatever comes down the road. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity. as someone who resembles someone else, or whatever comes down the road. i appreciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ ray loves vacations. but his diabetes never seemed to take one. everything felt like a 'no'. everything. but then ray went from no to know. with freestyle libre 2, now he knows his glucose levels when he needs to. and... when he wants to. so ray... can be ray. take the mystery out of your glucose levels, and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free. visit freestylelibre.us now you know. when our daughter and her kids moved in with us... our bargain detergent couldn't keep up. turns out it's mostly water. so, we switched back to tide. one wash, stains are gone. [daughter] slurping don't pay for water. pay for clean. it's got to be tide. despite convictions for the three defendants in the murder of ahmaud arbery, there is still more to come. travis mcmichael, his father gregory and their neighbor william bryan face between 30 years and life in prison without parole. their lawyers told reporters they plan to appeal the verdict, which they described as disappointing and sad. regardless, there will be another trial for the three men in february on federal hate crimes charges. joining me now is nbc news car respondent cal perry and barbara mcbarbara, i want to start on the federal hate crime charges. when this goes to trial on hate crimes, what is the difference in that trial from what we saw in the one in georgia? >> well, it is a slightly more challenging crime to allege a hate crime. you have to show all of the elements shown in the georgia case, but they have to add the additional element that they did so on account of his race, that that was the basis of the decision. i imagine the hook they will use for federal jurisdiction is that he was on a public street. we all have a right to be on a public street and someone that interferes with that violates their civil rights. but it is on account of a person's race or national origin or something else. sometimes that can be difficult. but in a case like this one where we saw some of the racial overtones in the case, that is the kind of evidence i think we will hear more about in the federal case. >> you know, there was a moment where the prosecutor played the 911 call where they said, what's your emergency? and the mcmichaels said there is a black man running down the street. there was also a lot of talk about words that were spoken over ahmaud arbery's body, past statements by the mcmichaels. how much of that is going to get dug up? we didn't see a lot of it during this trial. >> right. i think that will be much more the focus in the federal trial because it is the duty of the prosecution in the federal case to prove that the motive here was ahmaud arbery's race. so whereas it might have been an incidental comment in the state court case, that is what the whole case will be about federally. so not only the statements that were made at the time that he said on the 911 call, but going back and looking at racial anonymous these men held, things they said to other people or in e-mails or text messages. all of that becomes relevant to say they have a racial bias that motivated them to commit this crime. >> has there been more of that today and what are they doing with that? >> yeah. we have seen a slow trickle of folks comes by the courthouse. i spoke to a father and son from south carolina. they're down here. this is a beautiful community basically on the shore. and the father brought their son out to this courthouse to take a photo, and i was struck by in covering this trial by the fact that this justice system seems designed for the mcmichaels and not for ahmaud arbery, right? we see this across the country. breonna taylor at louisville. i have never seen anyone stop and take a picture in front of an american courthouse with pride until today and it just speaks to what this community has been through. it was february the 23rd of 2020. when the police arrived he was dying in the street unarmed and surrounded by three well armed white men and those white men went home for two months. it was only because the video was released and leaked that they actually ever stood trial. we had prosecutors who mishandled the case, one of whom has been indicted basically for covering it up. so it made me emotional to see people come by the courthouse and taking pictures in front of it because it is an unusual moment. it is sad to say it is an unusual moment in this country. but this trial highlights what we know, which is that this justice system is flawed and flawed on behalf of people of color in this country. so it was a nice momento day to see. that speaks to what this community has been through in the last months and it speaks to what they're feeling today. >> a black man got justice from a nearly all white jury. >> sentencing is coming up in a few weeks according to the judge. the men faced quite a large sentence. what is your expectation. >> well, i think for travis mcmichael who pulled the trigger, i can't imagine there is a prosecutor arguing for anything short of life. for the other two men there is an opportunity for a lessor sentence. they were convicted not of that intentional murder but felony murder which is a very serious crime. but there can be room there for a lessor penalty. if i were their lawyers, i would be trying to argue their conduct was relatively less severe than that of travis mcmichael who was for the men. >> we will see how this plays out. barbara mcquaid, cal perry, thanks for being with us and happy thanksgiving again. a boat capsizes killing 27 migrants on board. the latest on the strategy in the english channel. and europe battles a fresh wave of covid-19 cases. should it serve as a warning to the united states? 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well, the director general of the world health organization yesterday said he thinks it's a false sense of security among people who get vaccinated. he thinks that or he says that people get vaccinated lower their guard and they forget about the other precautions which is of course wearing a mask in a crowded place indoors or keeping social distance. while, of course, vaccination is the main true protection against covid-19. he says that people shouldn't forget that they should not -- they should not lower their guard in terms of the other precautions. what are governments across europe doing to stop this new trend? the fourth wave of infection across europe? here in italy, for instance, which is not doing so badly compared to its european neighbors, but it has some of the harshest restrictions. yet the government here announced that public places of entertainment like restaurants behind me or bars or gyms, theaters, you name it, will only be accessible from december the 6th all the way through january 15th, so throughout the christmas and new year's holiday only to those who are fully vaccinated or recently recovered from covid-19. people who are not vaccinated by choice cannot or will not be allowed into those places, gyms, theaters, public places like restaurants and bars even if they present a negative covid test. they could have done that until now or at least they can still do it until december the 6th. other countries across the europe are taking similar measures. you will need a green pass. so test are they vaccinated or you have a negative test or you recently recovered from covid or public transports in france has just made wearing a mask mandatory in indoor places and also crowded events like the christmas markets. like europe, covid-19 or the trend of covid-19 ceased to reach europe two or three months before it arrives in the united states. the less son to be learned here is prevention is better than the cure, katy. >> thank you. joining me now is critical care pulmonologist dr. gupta. dr. gupta, thanks for being here. i was struck about how the unvaccinated are not allowed to go eat inside or theaters or gyms for a period of time in italy. it is the same rules we have had in place in new york city for quite some time. i got to tell you, it makes me feel really good knowing that when i'm inside a restaurant that i'm among vaccinated people inside that restaurant or going to a gym and feeling like i can safely work out. is that part of the reason why we have been able to keep infections from spiking here in the city while we have seen it spike so many other places across the country? >> yes, katy. first of all, happy holidays. it is great to see you. places like michigan -- first of all, let's take new york city. you can't enjoy leisure activities as you pointed out, which is why new york city has been spared the worst of a fourth wave. take michigan, though, which is a similar population to austria, which you referenced earlier. 8 to 10 million people. michigan has a fully vaccinated rate of 55%. austria has a 66% fully vaccinated rate. they're now locking down. this is what i think is really critical here to dive deep into what the w.h.o. director said. talking about what the fully vaccinated should be doing. to your point, the fully vaccinated should be able to enjoy leisure activities. they're not a major driver of transmission. sure, there is some breakthrough infection that happens six to eight months later after you finished your initial series, yes, to a certain extent. but this is a problem of the unvaccinated driving who ends up in the hospital. which is why 55% fully vaccinated in places like michigan, that is why we're seeing something similar in michigan to what we're seeing in austria to what we're seeing in germany. we have clear examples of that. >> so what can we expect to see in the next few months here? >> we are forecasting at the university of washington 1,400 daily tests. that's the most likely outcome, katy. 10,000 weekly deaths week over week well into the beginning of march. we have accepted as a country because we're not talking about lockdowns in places like michigan or elsewhere where this death toll will be concentrated amongst the unvaccinated. that's just what we have decided to accept 120,000 preventable deaths by march 1st, 2022. that's what we will expect to see. katy, that's agnostic to the stress that we worry about from flu or from other respiratory viruses. the reason we're seeing this, remaining unvaccinated is cold, dry air. since a pulmonologist, cold dry air is an ingredient for increased transmission. seasonality, remaining unvaccinated, that one-two punch is why we're seeing what we're seeing. >> what about this new covid variant that the w.h.o. is meeting to discuss, another one out of south africa? >> so, we don't know enough yet. what we know is it is not very prevalent. hopefully this is not something that then becomes dominant across the world. they're meeting as we speak to determine whether or not it is something they need to keep their eye out on. it does look like with delta and other things risen from 2021 that some degree of -- that we lose some protection against this variant if you are exposed to it, even if you are fully vaccinated. so more to come. we'll have to see what they say. >> i guess the bigger question here is there are lockdowns across europe. there is a lot of pushback for those lockdowns. there are protests. a lot of pushback here for lockdowns and for mandates. we're hearing that the feds will prosecute people who are unruly on flights, prosecute them more harshly than they have been. but our mandates, our requirements, are these -- these policies necessary when you have so much of the public that is unwilling to -- to act on the safety, not just themselves but their family members or their friends, their loved ones, their neighbors, the people they meet in the shop. you have a good portion of the american population that just refuses to take the vaccine. >> you know, katy, this is an inherent tension we talk about a lot. this tension between free will and what should you have access to if, say, you remain unvaccinated but need an icu bed. the crisis standards of care you have been hearing about for many months now, what are you entitled to as an individual if you decide to remain unvaccinated but need life saving critical care support. that's the tension here. we have made a determination that if you are unvaccinated, you can still get access to everything that somebody who is fully vaccinated would otherwise have access to as well. what do we do about that? do we revisit the philosophy of that? number two, i will see we luckily have an off ramp for the unvaccinated with these oral therapies that if folks decide that, hey, we're not going to get vaccinated, one saving grace is hopefully we can keep more of these people out of the hospital preventing stress because they can get this therapy. >> i'm not going to take the vaccine, but i'm going to take the pills. i wonder how many folks will say no to both, which is problematic. >> good point. >> thank you so much. happy thanksgiving to you. one day i will have you on and we will talk about something wonderful and happy. hopefully it's soon. but thank you for being here today. today marks one of the biggest shopping days -- i'm sorry. tomorrow marks one of the biggest shopping days of the year because stores are mostly shut today. so how to get around those supply chain issues you have been hearing about. also, the double whammy leading to a shortage of christmas trees. ♪♪ ♪♪ dad, why didn't you answer your phone? 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rising cost of living, shoppering like here in los angeles are expected to show up in droves. it is the same story here at the mall of america in minnesota. 66% of shoppers nationwide will spend this holiday weekend. to here in maryland where shoppers are hunting for clothes, toys and gift cards. with so much demand, shoppers should expect to see weaker than usual discounts this weekend. >> we're exceeding discounts in the range of 5% to 25% this season. and that's different from previous seasons when they have gone down as much as 10% to 30%. >> reporter: those shallower discounts driven by supply chain issues, having to pay more to get their products on your shelves. >> keep popular products in stock, ship them out on time and consumers will start feeling that, especially if they're shopping at the last-minute this year. >> reporter: experts say the biggest sales on toys will happen on thanksgiving day. the deepest discounts on items like tvs as well as clothes, shoes and beauty are expected on black friday. electronics and travel come kinder monday. >> peggy, good to see you. so there are all these supply chain issues. we have been talking about them ad nauseam. >> in some ways, i think it's already affected consumer habits. we saw a slew of economic data yesterday. consumer spending is still powering this economy, and that a lot of shoppers seemed to have shopped early. i think in large part because people have been hearing that the supply chain issues are real and that they are disrupting some of the retailer's ability to get goods on to the shelves. >> what are the items that are being hit the hardest? there was a big talk for a while about how nobody could get a car because the micro processor, the chip in the cars wasn't able to be manufactured or we weren't able to get it here. what's still being affected right now? >> as you said, the semiconductor chip story is still ongoing. this year was the year of talking about used car prices when it comes to inflation and prices rising. i think people have also reported and we have reported a lot of costs rising and difficulty with big items like furniture, right? another thing that's happened is we are not only have congestion at some of the biggest ports in the country, but we're having trouble finding enough truckdrivers to actually get them to the places they need to go once they're off the container ships. >> reporter: so, i mean, is it worth waiting if you are looking at a big ticket item waiting five months, six months to when start getting better? will they be better in that time? >> well, at bloomberg economics, we are seeing the supply chain indicators ease a little bit in the u.s. but the backlogs are still there. it is elevated. it is still elevated. so i think there are some signs that things are easing, but i think we still have a long way to go. so it depends on how badly you need the item and how much you are willing to pay for it. we are seeing inflation the highest it's been in decades and americans are seeing it in every day items from gas prices to good prices. >> there is so much demand out there. what is that going to do to the health of our economy right now given all the demand, given that there is supply chain issues, given that there is inflation. those three things together, does that mean that we're going to -- or what does it do to the economy? you tell me? >> well, it's been really interesting because the data yesterday was really in large part a big green arrow up in large part because the demand is still there from consumers. we are still seeing the government aid that went out last year hold people up in terms of their savings. although, we did see a savings rate drop. so it is more aligned with where it was in the pre-pandemic. that's something we will be watching. but i also think we have seen some banks as recently as yesterday up their growth forecast through the end of this year because it does look like consumers and their demand is there in part because it feels like more of a normal holidays with vaccination rates and kids getting vaccinated. in some ways americans are excited to be able to go out and shop on a day like black friday tomorrow. >> yeah. actually do something that feels normal. thank you for joining us and happy thanksgiving to you. a double wham my is putting pressure on the christmas tree industry and christmas tree growers this year. that's climate change and underproduction of christmas trees. it is leading to a shortage of trees and rising prices for the trees out there. will this put the christmas ka bosh on those of us hoping to get a new tree this year? my writers are trying to tongue tie me. kerry sanders has more. >> reporter: katy, these trees are arriving from north carolina. but nationwide as the trees are getting distributed around the country about this time of year, this year there is going to be a supply and demand problem with the trees that smell so good but because of both mother nature and supply chain there is going to be a shortage. so prices will be up but most importantly the best suggestion is do not wait. if getting your christmas tree feels like living in your own christmas movie. >> there it is. >> reporter: -- then this year there may be some unexpected high jinx. >> i would highly suggest this year to get your tree early. >> reporter: christmas tree farmers say their harvest is smaller this year, but they're not blaming it on the pandemic. >> there is some underproduction during the recession years 2009, 2010, 2011. so fast forward the clocks, you know, 8, 9, 10 years and we're paying the price today for the underproduction then. >> reporter: sellers say a strained supply chain also plays a role. >> trucks are a challenge. there is no question about it. the supply chain has got some major bumps in it right now. >> reporter: adding to the shortages mother nature. >> this is damage from the 110 degree heat. >> reporter: this summer a heat wave in oregon scorched saplings and ruined thousands of trees on this family farm. in buffalo valley pennsylvania at the nation's largest christmas tree auction, they are auctions off 50,000 trees. before the pandemic, 98,000. this is the middleman between farmers and the trees you buy at small tent sales and big box stores. >> there is a lot of new people here to buy and they're buying because their suppliers who no longer have trees. >> reporter: and if you are thinking of getting an artificial tree, many are truck on cargo ships and in ports. >> that's going to make shopping a little bit more difficult. but it doesn't mean that christmas is canceled. anyone who wants a tree will be able to find one. they might just have to look a little bit harder. >> he went to the chimney and stuck the tree up. >> reporter: to prevent the grinch from stealing your holiday, experts say shop early. some lots may sell out. among those on the early hunt for a tree, cindy. thankful this year will not be a socially distanced holiday. >> i feel great we're getting back to normal. that's probably a reason why the tree is getting put up earlier this year and we will be welcoming our family and friends over. >> reporter: so if you are a live tree person and again you like that smell in your house, if you are buying early, just remember check the needles to make sure the tree is not trying up. make sure it is watered because the last thing you want to do is buy early and then wind up with a tree that becomes a hire hazard. >> bless you, kerry sanders. that was my question. i want to get a tree and i want to get it early. but i'm worried if i get it now that it will dry out by the time we get to christmas and i'll have a dead fire hazard tree in my house. you just answered the question i have. god bless kerry sanders. coming up next, holiday travel hits a post pandemic travel. the test it serves for an industry hit hard by covid-19. get help managing your money for the life -- and years -- 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those nagging headaches. uncomfortable period pains. and disruptive muscle aches. you can count on fast, effective relief with motrin. president biden and the first lady gave thanks virtually today to u.s. service members in all the six branches around the world. the bidens visited a u.s. coast guard station earlier on nantucket, where they are spending this thanksgiving. >> thankful for these guys, for them, and everybody. i mean that from the bottom of my heart. watched them in the south china sea, afghanistan, iraq, wherever they are. people wonder what america is, they look and cici them. that's who they see. they don't see us here. they see them. that makes me proud. >> the thanksgiving rush is usually considered the super bowl, full, of the holiday travel season, and this year, it could exceed expectations. holiday travel is back. as folks all around the country finally reunite with their families for turkeys. up frommel a estimates 50 million people will travel for thanksgiving this year. that is an 80% increase from last year when people largely stayed home. if you are like me, you ate a giant pile of mashed potatoes. all of those travelers are posing challenges for the airports, airlines, and the tsa. joining me, president of froemer's guide books. it is good to see you. i haven't been on an airplane since march 20rks 20. i usually spend my life on an airplane. if i am going to travel this holiday season what do i need to know? >> you need to know that everybody is traveling. so you need to get to the airport early. there were predictions that it would be arm-geddon at the airport because of the tsa's vaccine mandate. but the tsa exceeded expectations. 93% of that staff is vaccinated. also, we didn't see the big storm. knock wood, it looks like it has been going okay this holiday season so far for travellers. >> what if -- this is a what-if because it is very unlikely for me this holiday season, but what if i was lucky enough to get on a plane to go to paris. what should i expect for international travel? >> you need to have your vaccine card. because you can't get into a restaurant. you can't get into a museum. you can't get into a shop without proving that you are vaccinated in most parts of europe. and certain parts of europe, not paris, but if you were to go to austria, or if you were to go to the netherlands, they are having a big spike right now in covid-19. so we are seeing the types of lockdowns that we saw in spring of 2020. so there may not be as many things for you to see and do, unfortunately, right now, in certain parts of europe. >> another reason to get vaccinated. okay. so are there any deals to be had for this holiday season? if i am booking a flight last minute, can i find a good deal on a flight? >> no, you are not going to find a good deal on a flight. those have all risen. and those going to continue to rise as we go closer to christmas and new years. however, there are good deals on cruising. you know, cruising took a black eye at the beginning of this pandemic. and i think a lot of people are still very leery about going on cruise ships. we are seeing prices for christmas and new year's that would be good deals in the offseason. and yet it's the high season. so if you are looking for a vacation type, that's where you are going to find the deals. >> pauline, i really hope mai husband was not watching when you said that. because he wants to go on a cruise and i have been batting him away now for years because i will not go on a cruise. hopefully he is not watching his wife on television right now. let's cross our fingers. other than cruises, are there any deals to be had if i was driving somewhere? >> believe it or not, urban destinations tend to be less filled than nature destinations. we all got into the habit of going to the national parks at the height of the pandemic. so a hotel in an urbanist destination will probably be cheaper than, say, an airbnb out in the country. go where the business travelers used to go, and you will find good deals that way. >> pauline, i just got a text. my husband was watching. darn. >> sorry. >> pauline, thank you for joining us. i hope you have a happy thanksgiving. i hope it is filled with cheap travel to amazing destinations full of vaccinated travelers. happy thanksgiving. that's going to do it for me, i am going to go home and stuff myself with thanksgiving, mash potatoes and pie. i hope you are doing the same. i hope you are already doing it. 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