felony murder, we the jury find the defendant william bryan guilty. >> those were the moments for all three defendants. and that is travis mcmichaels the man who shot ahmaud arbery, who was thot armed last february. the jury finding him guilty on all nine counts he faced including malice murder. the only one of the three defendants to be convicted of that charge. that was going down inside the courthouse. outside, so much emotion. the parents and the family of ahmaud arbery coming out of court celebrating the guilty verdicts, but taking a moment to remind people this is a somber occasion. they will be celebrating thanksgiving tomorrow with an empty chair where they son and loved one should have been. i'm hallie jackson in washington. here with me for this breaking news coverage, we have cal perry outside that courthouse in georgia. legal analyst and defense attorney danny sa lis. and brittany cunningham is an msnbc political analyst and black lives matter activist. cal, let me start with you. what we have seen over the course of the last 90 minutes has been so much emotion outside that courtroom. we have heard from ahmaud arbery's mother. we have heard from his family members. we have heard from supporters of the family. >> it's been emotional. you can say jubilation, but also a sense of profound relief, both on part of the family and the supporters here. inside the court when that first verdict was read on the first defendant, we actually heard a woo described by the court reporter. that stopped the proceedings. the judge saying nobody can act like that. he was escorted out of the courtroom, but not before he said, long time coming. that was what happened inside the court. outside the courtroom, you played some of the scenes. supporters who have been here doing weekly marches. that's what you're seeing. this is a weekly march that has take place since 2020. since february 2020. that was before the pandemic. and it speaks to what the family has been waiting for. it speaks to the sense of relief you're seeing. the facts of of this case were pretty claer. we know what happened. it was up to the jury to decide whether this citizens arrest was justified they clearly decided it wasn't justified. but again, you had throw white men well armed killing an unarmed black man, 25 years old. there was a sense here that this could have gone the other way as so manies cay have. that's why you're seeing this march with a sense of relief here on the ground. >> danny, how did the prosecution make its case here? >> even with a favorable citizens arrest statute, this was always a long shot for the defense. the prosecution very effectively in their closing used a technique i like, which is puts themselves in the room with the jury. not from a pulpit, but almost as if she was one of them. sometimes even making fun of lawyers. come on, lawyers, as if to say i'm one of you. i'm walking you through this. it's like assembling a toy at christmas time. i'll give you all the instructions. they made their case. they went through each of the elements the defense had to put all its chips into citizens arrest and probable cause it was always a long shot. that's even though georgia's statute was permissive and broadly drafted. so the jury cob colluded as to the malice murder as essentially the person who pulled the trigger. as for the other defendants, they concluded they did commit felonies. and aggravated assault and those crimes resulted in arbery's death it appears because bryan did not possess a furm, he was acquitted of the assault charges. and the malice murder, that appears to be the jury's reasoning. definitely a split, but most counts, bryan was found guilty. >> talk about next steps. these three defendants also face a federal hate crimes case in a couple months. >> that's correct. the feds still have charged these individuals and there's more to come. i believe this is a ball that's been rolling for a long time. it just speaks to the different jurisdictions a about what's possible and what the needs are. and we have to connect the dots about while we are celebrating this guilty verdict, we have to be aware of the verdict we had in rittenhouse earlier this week and the thousands of cases that we don't see where we don't have a videotape or videotape exists and not made transparent in terms of what the next steps are. there's still advocacy that needs to be done to mandate changes and policy reforms. you have to have accountability. they are two separate issues that we need to get to race neutral outcomes from our criminal justice system. while we're celebrating this case, one of the things that we have to be aware of that was frustrating to me throughout the case was the prosecution having to dance around and go between the revelations made throughout the case about the missteps and the objective delays associated with this case from both law enforcement, prosecutors and our justice system that came out. if you're listening while the prosecutor was talking and we had law enforcement there and they talked about little things like showing up on the scene and watching ahmaud arbery, who was still alive, just die on the street and not offering or rendering aid, her talking about the privilege associated with these defendants when they encountered them. listen to this narrative when we had an objective analysis and an objective evidentiary tool of exactly what had already happened. those are the kinds of things that the prosecution had to interject and dance around to it try to keep the focus on the defendants that we have a guilty verdict on, but shine the light on what the needs are to reform our justice system is, to dpet to racial neutral outcomes. in as much as george floyd was a case about policing, this case, i think, stands for a revelation that we need to focus on other areas of our criminal justice system is as well in order to reform our systems to get to where we need to go. so that we don't need to when the ball drops at the local level, relien federal prosecution to clean up the mess from terrible tragedies and murders being committed regularly because of vigilanteism interpretations, because of self-defense interpretations and those concepts in and of themselves are deeply rooted in racialized outcomes that both find people of color and black people suspicious and validation for white people to act on self-defense and their it own fears in ways through assertion of legal authority or acting on behalf of law enforcement without legal authority, which is the definition of vigilanteism in the first place. so there's so much work to be done. the question is race for me. now what about the george floyd bill? how do we institutionalize this verdict to make sure there are longer-lasting and systemic changes that we can celebrate to make sure that we don't continue having cases like this and we will. we will because more than two-thirds of all law enforcement agencies in this country still don't have use of force reforms. that means by adoptive admission, they are still engaging in things like restraints that we saw in george floyd. that we're still seeing shooting at cars, not best prctices for the public for defendants and suspects for the police themselves. still seeing no-knock warrants subjectively interpretive against communities of color because we're still having these conversations before we even overlay the analysis of race. that's why i just keep saying it. we have to be intentional about race if we want to address it. i'm happy and i'm celebrating the victory of this verdict, but court cases are not a litmus test for justice reform. they are case specific. i'm celebrating and i'm happy for ahmaud arbery. i'm celebrating and i'm happy for ahmaud arbery's family. i'm celebrating and i'm happy for people of color who were insult issed by the objectively racist arguments and motions made in this case by the defense, but i'm also consciously and bitterly aware of how much further we need to go to reform our system to make sure that vigilanteism has limitations, that self-defense has limitations, that aren't racially motivated for the future of this country and the future of disenfranchised communities. >> as we talk about what we're seeing outside the courtroom and we have been taking some of those live pictures, i thought something you said or you have described the difference and the distinction here, and this gets into what paul was describing too, between relief and rejoicing. talk about that. >> yeah, there is a distinct difference between relief and rejoicing. one that black people know all too well. 25-year-old ahmaud arbery should be sitting in a seat that will be empty tomorrow on a day of gratitude with his family, his mother and his loved ones. there is no justice here. there's only accountability. ahmaud arbery is dead. there is no rejoiing in that. but the collective breath that the black community has been holding, the collect cannive prayers that we have been saying for the family of ahmaud arbery, that does see a sense of relief on days like today among many and still we hold those truths at the same time because we know there's no single verdict. there's no single verdict that can signal that the entire system is just. a system that assess ises the facts only after an injustice has occurred and is rooted in traditions of supremacy is actually i want incapable of conferring justice. it can only award accountability. because justice locks like a living, breathing ahmaud arbery. it looks like creating safe and just worlds that are nurturing young people before someone like ahmad even dies or even encountered by three it white men who believe it is fully within their right to make him obey and will do so with their guns. justice looks like raising antiracist children and institutions and lib tear communities. so anyone who thinks this work stops because three men out of thousands over the years were finally held accountable is confused, this system is not off the hook. the courtroom is a lens. it can't be an arbiter of freedom. what's telling in the case is the prosecution knew well enough to not bring race into this particular prosecution because there's a chance that a nearly all white jury, one that might even do the right thing could be made so uncomfortable by the introduction of race in this conversation that they could make the wrong decision. but i'm sure at the end of the day that ahmaud arbery's family would give back every single guilty verdict to have their son sitting next to them tomorrow. until we make sure there are no more arberys, there's work to be done. >> talk about this point she's making as it relates to the prosecution and how they addressed race. we saw in closing arguments, the prosecutor did bring race into it. she talked about how this was the shooting and killing of a black man. but as noted, it was not a central focus of the case over the last several weeks here. talk about how that might have played into the strategy and the evaluation in the case. >> absolutely. just in case there was that one person uncomfortable bringing race into this, that could have affected how they were going to examine citizens arrests. how they were going to examine the reasonableness necessary for a self-defense argument to be justifiable under the law. how they were going to analyze malice aforethought or look at the intent. but i think the issue here was the prosecution didn't want to bring in race because of those reasons. but she had to when some of the undertones were brought up in other closing arguments. when grg ri mcmichael's attorney talked about how dirty ahmaud arbery's toenails were, i think that her implication there had racial undertones. yes, she was probably trying to say he wasn't here because he was jogging. he was here because he had had one purpose and that was to steal and burglarize this home. evidence that was already discounted and discredited through credible evidence put in through the prosecution and not rebutted in any regard by the defense. but i think that it she had to kind of say, hey, this was a black man. she didn't say they were scared of this angry black man, which is what all black americans wanted to say. these three white men were scared because he was a black man and saw him as nothing other than what many see black men as. it's something that our nation has to really reckon with is how we view black americans in society. how we view them and how all of that -- those views do have systemic racism when we give juries the opportunity to interpret laws that have subjective and not fully objective elements in it. i think the prosecutor did a good job by not targeting race, but by just attacking it in a counterattack role. i think it was strategic, and i think she did a great job. >> i want to ask you to standby for a second. i want to bring in somebody who you have seen on this network in the last 90 minutes speaking live from outside that courtroom. and that is the reverend al sharpton, national action network president. thank you very much for being with us this afternoon. >> thank you. let me say at the outset that i think that today is important, but it is no way the end of really fighting a criminal justice system that's unfair. let's remember kyle rittenhouse just less than a week ago had his actions saluted by donald trump. so we have a lot of work to do. but because of the sensitivity of many of the activists and many of the groups not only there, but they set a climate to people would have the courage to look at the evidence rather than race. 11 whites in georgia is a significant step, but it's a step. it's not the end. i think we would be candid. now we must change the laws and change how prosecutors operate so this would not be a big story that it is. it's a big story because it's unusual. it mean we have a lot of work still ahead of us. >> i want to follow up with you on that and a per spect i-on the view. the system ises that need to change. but let me just drill down on the last 90 minutes here. you have been with the family we have seen them publicly now. how are they doing privately? when you talk with them, how are they? >> it's very emotional when the first guilty verdict was announced. i was sitting between the mother and father. he jumped up out of his seat. had had to lee the courtroom. i think it was a cry tears of relief, tears of joy, and she also said to me, she was crying thinking of all the mothers that didn't get a guilty verdict some never got caught. this has amazed me. i got involved with them through ben crump. even before there was a video. let's not forget for over 70 days, they would not even arrest these men. they were not finding a reason for arrest. they are now being charged. and now they have been found guilty with life sentences look at them. imagine if they had not stayed on this and the mother and father hadn't staid on it and the attorneys, this day would have never happened. this was not supposed to happen. it gives us strength, but it doesn't give us finality. >> did you see any reaction from the jury or jurors inside the courtroom when you were there? i wonder what that moment was like. >> i didn't lock at the jury. i was trying to comfort. we did meet with the family and the attorneys and it was very emotional. we went to lunch and prepared ourselves for the worst because i have been in many courtrooms that it looked like it was going to be great and ended up different. i thank god that it ended up the way it did. we must keep fighting. it's a great day of celebration, but we have to keep fighting. >> you make an important point, which i wanted to ask you about any way. it clearly was critical for the jury as they had asked during deliberations to look at that again to it hear the 911 call. i'm reminded of other cases, george floyd, where it was the video evidence that played such a big part of this. with some observers wondering it there hadn't been video, would we have this outcome here today? >> i doubt it. if we had not had video, whether we would have got the case to move as far as it did. certainly not the conviction. the question becomes what happens to the tens of thousands that didn't have video and suffered death or suffer issed serious assault. why must it be a different standard in this country based on race. that's something we have to deal with. so fwen, we have to keep tealing with these issues. i think this broadens the discussion, but it certainly doesn't end the discussion. >> let's talk about broadening the discussion. because there are other cases you talk about, but in this case, this is not the end of the road for travis mcmichael, greg and roddie. they face federal hate crime charges. can you talk about the support for the arbery family? beyond the grief and the loss that they are dealing with now, this is also going to remin in the headlines. this is also going to continue to be a news story for several months if not longer than that. >> you're going toft federal case that they have to go through. and you know that these attorneys are going to try to appeal. i think part of the reason that the lawyer was attacking the presence of ministers, including me, he's going to try to appeal the sentence. so this case is not far from what we have certainly far from over. and the parents no doubt feel it's far from over. so they are prepared, but the one thing they it did get today is at least they have the sol lis on thanksgiving day they are locking at to feel they it at least fought and won something in the name of their son. >> how do you see this verdict in light of the one we saw last week as it relates to kyle rittenhouse? >> i think that it is the absolute opposite of of what we saw last week. the idea that it's in the deep south in georgia, for us to be able to see a jury of 11 whites in georgia do what a judge who i felt operated as the defense team couldn't do for a jury in wisconsin is very telling that we are looking a at a much different situation in a place that was unlikely. the fact that donald trump are now making a hero out of a guy that killed two people, that like had the lives of those two that died was insignificant. it's horrific and scary. thank god we got a little daylight. >> reverend al sharpton, thank you for being with us. we appreciate your time. thank you for that. we have more to to come here on this show with the nation reacting to these three guilty verdicts today. the head of the naacp will join us live next for the first reaction since the verdicts came down. and the attorney for ahmaud arbery's mother will also join us. breaking news conch continues here on msnbc. h continues here on msnbc. ♪ ♪ ♪ downy's been taking you back, since way back. with freshness and softness you never forget. feel the difference with downy. if you have this... consider adding 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7th deadline. don't wait. save time. find the plan that fits you. call the number on your screen now, or visit healthmarkets.com healthmarkets we are back continuing our breaking news coverage. the guilty verdicts in the murder of ahmaud arbery with the three defendants in the trial we have been covering for week nous. convicted, repairing to be sentenced. i want to bring in the president of the naacp derek johnson. thank you for being back on the show. >> good afternoon. >> your reaction to the verdict we have seen this afternoon? >> i hope this slows down this concept that individuals can take justice into their own hands. it would have been an unfortunate outcome because in the south where i live, many people would have seen this as a clearing call to go and attack people without any authority to do so. and as a father of a 60-year-old son, many people would have been in fear of what this could have meant had the jury done something different. the question is around the former da. what is it this da didn't see that this jury has seen to bring a guilty verdict? and the problem we have with much of our justice systems is around district attorneys unwilling to bring forth a level of justice and accountability for families who are being grieved. these individuals there's no question what the outcome would have been. it sends a clear message that a jury that many of us question buzz it was not diverse in a southern state, in a rural community, can actually see a human being and hold vimgs accountable for murdering that human being. so this is a good step forward. i hope that it will continue in this it direction. >> were you surprised when the verdicts were read as they were? you referenced the makeup of the jury, nearly all white. i wonder how you saw that as this was unfolding. >> i have become numb and stopped trying to predict outcomes of elections and court decisions. i just brace myself for the next step. in this case, we're bracing for the next step. because there's so many thing its that has confronted this nation that we must address it as it relates to race and justice for african-americans. so as we look at this moment, it is a great thing for that community to have 12 individual who is can see through the fallacy is of a self-defense response. they hunted down an individual who was jogging and killed them. and thank goodness there's a level of humanity in that community among the white citizens of that community to see through what these three individuals did. i celebrate what the family, but we also cautiously work towards our future where justice can be inclusive and not just for some people. >> there are those who saw what happened in this case and have described it as a modern day lynching. i wonder if that's how you view it and if this is accountability? >> there's absolutely accountability. naacp was created in the backdrop of a lynching happening once a day. and we're still pushing to ensure that vigilante justice is not the norm. it's by far the exception. when it takes place, people can be held accountable. so this is proof that if you pursue properly an outcome that will provide the family of murdered individuals justice, that people can and will stand up. we must ensure that those who are elected to office, district attorneys are held accountable so they can do their jobs in protecting the citizens that are put in office and protecting the jurisdictions they are responsible for. it's a step in the right direction, but we have a lot of steps to go. >> what message do you think this sends, this verdict broadly to the communities you serve and the rest of america? >> it's an opportunity. the that individuals can be seen for their human zefls. that the proposition that black lives matter is something we can look to appreciate. at the end of the day, put yourself in the shoes of a parent regardless of whether you're white, asian, african-american, and your child is jogging, just being a child and individuals seek to harm and murder your child that is not america or what america should be. we have sacrificed so much. we fought for this country. s we fought this country to adhere to its constitution. we have done all the things necessary because we believe in this democracy. we just want this democracy to respect our human zefls and believe in us. >> thank you so much for being back on the show with us and the reaction. proosht your time. i want to bring in somebody else who is close to this. that's the ahmaud arbery family attorney. he's also running for attorney general in texas. thank you for being on can you hear me okay? >> i can hear you fine. thank you for having me. >> tell me how the family is doing. >> the family is extremely relieved. they have described it as a big weight is off their shoulders. they have come so far in the last 18 months since the murder of ahmaud. 74 days without any kind of justice. they never knew this day would come. but ahmaud's mom had had faith and she prayed us here, she fought, she investigated. this outcome is a result of her work. >> sometimes the phone drops. this is live television. you're doing what you can to get on the air. we appreciate you even if you're upside down. you said something that i think is important there. the prayers that this would be prosecuted appropriately. that she prayed for this outcome. that's where this came from. i wonder if it your view if it -- does it need to be prayers? is that -- meaning, shouldn't the system work better tht it doesn't need to come down to simply prayers. >> this had outcome, unfortunately, in high profile cases involving plaque victims of violence, whether it be as a result of racial an mouse or police violence, we have seen people waited with baited breath. we're disappointed with the outcome. it does take prayer, but the issue is it should not. we need to identify the larger goals in our system that continues to produce injustice for black communities. we started to deal with some of those here and should replicate that. and then there's still some that remain in place. >> has the family thought about next steps yet? i ask that knowing it's been less than two hours since this incredibly emotional verdict came down. but i wonder if you, at least, are thinking about the months to come, especially the given the federal charges against these men. >> yeah, the family almost immediately began. we have a december 20th date in federal court in georgia for these same men facing hate crime charges. the original prosecutor who delayed justice to this family will be facing criminal charges. there's a federal civil rights suit the family filed on the anniversary of ahmaud's murder last year. wander cooper jones and the family have just begun the fight in a lot of ways. >> i wonder in the moments after this verdict came in, her reaction privately, how she's thinking about frankly tomorrow, a holiday when so many of us are privileged to spend it with our families and she will spend for the second year in a row without her son. >> she is surrounded by families right now. her family of oscar grant killed in california, many years ago, it's one of many families who showed up to stand beside her today. >> i think we lost lee merit. we thank you for his time. we'll get him if he comes back on. we're continuing our breaking news coverage here on msnbc. we're just getting a statement in. the first from vice president kamala harris. this comes after a statement from president biden about 45 minutes ago. she says, we feel the weight of grief. i want to go now to kelly o'donnell, traveling with president biden in massachusetts. if you're with me here, tell us more about what the vice president had to say. >> reporter: it was very personal. the vice president saying in her statement that she shares in the grief that the parents of ahmaud arbery feel because of his death and the fact that he will be missing at this holiday time. she says the jury rendered its verdict and three defendants were found guilty of murdering him. still we feel the weight of that grief. nothing can bring him back to life. she says he should be alive today and nothing can take away the pain that his parents feel and says i share in that pain. she says that it these verdicts send an important message, but the fact remains that we still have work to do. the vice president says the defense council choses to set a tone that cast the attendance of ministers at the trial as intimidation and dehumanized a black men with racist troves. ahmaud arbery was a son, he was a brother, he was a friend. his life had meaning. we will not forget him. we honor him best by continuing the fight for justice. and as ewe pointed out, the president had also released a statement today where he talked about his killing being witnessed by the world on video. ask that it's a reminder of how far the nation still has to go. he also acknowledged the parents of ahmaud arbery and the holiday season and the fact that he would be missing at this time when families come together and this was a horrible crime that now will be punished. the president also made a point that we often hear from him. that is that it's important to try to build on the future of of unity and a shared sense of strength in the country. what we have seen from the president recently, especially with the sort of cultural touch points in important trials that have an impact beyond the immediate family that is affected and have a ripple in communities and across the country, it's a concern about not interfering in what is being said, but also using it as a point of trying to emphasize the need for unity in the country. affirming the institutions of jury system and the courts and trying to support that it and also trying to speak to some of the lessons that need to be learned. this is the kind of thing where the white house is not wanting to draw itself in to these events too much, but at the same time, wanting to echo a lot of the concerns that are expressed today and to be in some ways a part of the lessons learned, if you will in this kind of thing. so we are here in nantucket where the biden family gathered for its holiday over the next several days. we'll be following the developments, if the president does intend to say anything more than that. it's not our expectation that he will speak on camera about this, we knew that if a verdict were to come, we expected to have these kinds of statements coming from the president and vice president. it is notable with kamala harris that she has an experience in her prior career of working in the criminal system and is a part of california's legal system. so she's had a more frontline role in that in her own history. she was a bit more forceful in her ritenhouse comments after that jury acquitted him on those charges this that other high-profile case. >> kelly o'donnell live for us there, thank you very much. appreciate it. we'll 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more of our breaking news coverage of the verdict in the trial of the killers now kwited murders of ahmaud arbery in georgia. i want to bring in legal analyst and former federal prosecutor paul butler. legal analyst, melissa murray, chuck rosenberg, brittany cunningham and natasha brown. thank you all for being melissa, let me start with you. we heard from the head of the naacp, the attorney for wanda cooper jones, the family attorney, reacting to this. it was nearly unanimous. that what we heard was celebration of relief, you could call it, and as we talked about earlier, the difference between being relieved and rejoicing. but the need for this to catalyze next steps moving forward. from a legal perative here, can you talk about the way the rhetoric we heard from the defense teams might have played into what we're seeing today and the way that the need for those next steps has been highlighted. >> sure. i think most lawyers looking at the defense lawyers would have been rightly appalled. i am someone who believes firmly in the right to counsel, but some of the tropes that were advanced by the defense team were frankly, deeply concerning. i think what we saw here was the jury being forced to confront whether or not they would be complicit is in advancing this narrative. they said that not on their watch. they were not going to go down that road. and the question going forward is, what do we do with this? where do we build going forward? this is a case that probably would not have seen the light of day if there hadn't been some reporting on the ground from local reporters there who fought to bring this story to the media and to the public. but this was something that went unexamined for quite some time until the entire environment around george floyd pushed this on to the media's national stage. >> we know that the defense attorneys, because we have seen them outside the courthouse, say they plan to appeal. can you talk about that it process and from the perch where you sit, what the chances are of having any success on that front? >> so they will certainly appeal and will probably lose. i say that both based on the facts of this case and that's how it usually works. so i think the appeal will be based on the's instructions to the jury about the citizen arrest law. they will say that it the judge essentially erected a guilty verdict when he said if the jurors found that the defendants weren't legally able to make a citizens arrest, that meant that they were it guilty of murder or the jury should find that. if you start the fight, you can't claim self-defense. so if the defendants weren't legally justified if making a citizens arrest, that means that they were the aggressors and can't claim self-defense. it will be an uphill roll. they hunted mr. arbery down. these three men never told him why they were trying to stop them. the prosecution in the citizens arrest is an after the fact justification. the defense may also appeal base ed on the evidence that the judge didn't let the jury see pertaining to mr. arbery's minor criminal justice involvement and his mental health rorlds. the defense will argue those were relevant and should have been presented. but bottom line is, in most cases, when people appeal criminal convictions, they lose. this was a well-fought battle by the prosecution. >> there are also next steps here. there's the federal hate crimes case that's coming up. i wonder if you can lay that out as well as your analysis of what we saw as a split verdict. we know and staud about at the top of the show, travis was the only wasn't of the three it defendants to be found guilty of malice murder, which is different from a legal perspective than felony murder, which the other defendants were found guilty of. however, in the scheme of things, the penalties, we're talking decades behind bars whether it's felony murder or malice murder. >> that's exactly right. whether it's felony murder or malice murder, the penalties are going to be almost exactly the same. but your point about a split verdict is an excellent one. in my experience as a federal prosecutor, juries try really hard to sort through the facts and apportion liability in a fair and thoughtful way. they don't always get it right. it's not it always thoughtful. but here i think it is. let me explain that. so son pulled the trigger. he was the one convicted of malice murder. father also wielded a firearm. he was convicted of everything else except malice murder. and then the guy in the truck who didn't have a firearm was convicted of assault and felony murder using the truck in connection with the murder. so jurors don't always get it exactly right, but when you think logically about how the facts came in a as evidence at this trial, the relative roles of these three men, they all did it something heinous. they are all murders. they are all convicted murders now and going to go to jail and they are all going to go to jail for a very long time. but they did slightly different things. it seems to me the jury tried very hard to apportion liability in the right way. >> tasha, let me come to you. because i think it is worth reminding folks about the broader context when we learned of the death of ahmaud arbery, but those protests -- the run with mahd protests were happening for example. it came with that, along with the death of george floyd, breonna taylor, catalyzing this national reckoning of race last spring, last summer. i wonder if you can tell me where we are now compared to a year and a half ago? >> i think this is a moment around what movement can create. what we are looking right now, there were three men, an incident, but we also had another trial earlier this week where we saw someone walk away who brutally murdered folks who actually weapon over a stateline. the bottom line is there is a serious issue with the justice system in this country. we should not be celebrating and lifting up how strong our justice system is. let's be reminded, this case happened before george floyd and it was because of the family members that led it going to court. the local prosecutors had to be taken out of the case can the state had to take over. that initself is indicative of what we are dealing with in the justice system in this country right now. in additioned to that, when we are looking at the movement that led -- the national media -- we had to get national media attention. i am not sure where i work in rural communities i am not so sure had it not been for the lifting of the profile of this particular case in the national spectrum if there had been enough pressure in the court to make sure there was a revisiting this details. so this is a larger issue, while, today, yes, there was a measure of justice served that need men are going to be held accountable but the bottom line is, ahmaud arbery will not be with his family on thanksgiving. and it took his family who had experience with this pushing and to be relentless just to have a day in court for this to be considered. >> britney, you have listened to our conversations over the last 50 minutes or society. i would love to hear from you. >> i'm truck by how much we are stuck in a perpetual cycle this. will continue to happen. a black person will be murdered by a white vigilante or -- and there will be protests, commentary on television, protests in the streets. there may be a court case, we will react to the verdict and the cycle will continue to go on and on because we haven't actually interrupted that cycle. we are not in the place where there will not be another ahmaud arbery. we are not in place where there won't be another kyle rittenhouse. we are not in a place where there are a future mcmichael family cooking their turkey and thinking -- i satst across from my therapist and she pulled out a paper she printed from the internet and showed me an illustration of the cycle of violence. you walk on eggshells, try to be good, try to be perfect. no matter what you do, the person you are in a relationship with will still blow up on you in a matter of a moment's notice. and black people are in an abusive relationship with the country we were forced to build for free with our stolen labor. in that abusive relationship, no matter how perfect we are, how contrite we are, no matter how conciliator we are we know the system can blow back on us at any moment. the question i and america, white america in particular is the same question i had to reckon with this the therapist's chair, what are we willing to do to end the cycle? koss congress have what it takes to end the school. to white parensv the will to educate their children and interrupt their own behaviors. do pastors have the willing to change how they are preaching on sunday morning is this do we have white teachers and white school board members who are willing to disrupt the cycle of violence, because it begins in classrooms. the mcmichaels were taught, they were raised. they were socialized. they ingested the media and the words can the behaviors and the models of people who taught them to engage in this way. so that grassroots organizers who can be on ground in georgia protesting and organizing every week alongside the arbery family, people like miss pauletta, people like barbara ar wine who were sitting in the courtroom every day. they weren't just demanding accountability in the case of ahmaud arbery, they were demanding this country finally fully interrupt this cycle. >> brittany thank you for being with us. our thanks to the rest of the panel. i appreciate all of your time as we have been in this role in coverage this afternoon. a busy hour of hallie jackson reports. "deadline: white house" starts right after this quick break. but first, some sound from the last couple of hours that you have watched here. >> i never thought this day would come. but god is good. >> yes, he is. >> yes he is. >> i just want to tell everybody, thank you. >> the spirit of ahmad defeated the lynch mob. >> ahmad's death has signalled significant changes in this community, and in our state, and in this nation w. the passing of georgia's first on hfr hate crime bill, and the changes of georgia's antiquated citizen's arrest law. bye mom. my helpers abound, i'll need you today. our sleigh is now ready, let's get on our way. a mountain of toys to fulfill many wishes. must be carried across all roads and all bridges. and when everyone is smiling and having their fun i can turn my sleigh north because my job here is done. it's not magic that makes more holiday deliveries to homes in the us than anyone else, it's the hardworking people of the united states postal service. that's a nice truck. yeah, it's the chevy silverado. check out this multi-flex tailgate. multi-flex, huh? wow. it becomes a step. mom, dad's flexing again. that's not all. you can extend the bed for longer stuff. is he still... still flexing. that's right! and, it becomes a workspace... you can put your laptop here. i'm sending an imaginay email. hey dad, dinner! hey! look who stopped by daddy's office. wait, you work here? the chevy silverado with the available multi-flex tailgate. find new flexibility. find new roads. chevrolet. ♪♪ this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to know you have a wealth plan that covers everything that's important to you. this is what it's like to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. making sure you have the right balance of risk and reward. and helping you plan for future generations. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity. are you tired of clean clothes that just don't smell clean? and helping you plan for future generations. downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters keep your laundry smelling fresh way longer than detergent alone. if you want laundry to smell fresh for weeks, make sure you have downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters. switching wireless carriers is easy with xfinity. just lean on our helpful switch squad to help you save with xfinity mobile. they can help break up with your current carrier for you and transfer your info to your new phone. giving you a fast and easy experience that can save you hundreds a year on your wireless bill. visit your nearest xfinity store and see how the switch squad can help you switch and save. it's the xfinity black friday sales event. learn how to save up to $1000 on select phones by visitng your local xfinity store today. >> man: what's my safelite story? my truck...is my livelihood. so when my windshield cracked... the experts at safelite autoglass came right to me... with service i could trust. right, girl? >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york today. an outpouring of emotion in streets outside a courthouse in brunswick, georgia, where today three white men were found guilty of murdering amat arbery a unarmed black man the case that along with the murder of george floyd helped spark ana nationwide uprising in the name of justice for black lives. today the jury -- 11 of them white, appearing after more than 11 hours of deliberation to agree with prosecutors to say that travis mcmichael, his father gregory and their neighborhood william "roddy" bryan jumped to conclusions about a quote, black man running down street. they confronted him and