former trump aide and long time loyalist steve bannon is expected to turn him receive over to law enforcement officials and appear in court after being indicted for not complying with january 6th committee subpoena. that comes as the select committee looks to probe multiple members of president mike pence's inner circle. the panel is believed to be interested in looking into what took place during the time when pence was whisked to safety as a mob of trump supporters called for him to be hanged. joining me now is olivia troye, the director of the republican accountability project. and a reporter at "the washington post" and msnbc contributor. i want to start with you, first, olivia. i think one thing i find shocking is that despite all of these revelations that we're finding on the, you know, on the special committee, that there still seems to be a tendency by republicans, the trump administration not to come forward, not to heed to those subpoenas. what do you say of that, of your former colleagues? >> honestly, i think this is their playbook. their ongoing playbook. these are individuals that feel they are above the law, that they will not be held accountable, that they stand above everyone else and won't be held responsible for their actions. i think that you're going to continue to see them sort of stall the process, they're going to try to stall it until they try to be in power again, so there is absolutely no accountability and they don't want the truth to come out, because it is very damaging. we already know the truth of what happened that day. the rest of us watched it in horror. it was a traumatizing day, a terrible day for our democracy, and those lives continue still continue to damage our democracy. >> one of the things we're learning is that lower ranking staff are coming forward. they are saying -- they are cooperating right now with the subcommittee. what is the strategy there? why is the more junior level staffers doing so well, the bigger names, steven miller, mark meadows are not? >> smart question and smart theme throughout this whole stall that olivia well describes. you know, in many crisis sort of critical congressional investigations that are looking into abuse and misuse of office, the higher level people have a lot of funding, and a lot of loyalty. a lot of time to pay for lawyers, to fend off these requests, these subpoenas, to go to the court of appeals and eventually in the case of donald trump probably to go to the supreme court in this battle, but lower level staff, you know, are smartly sought after both by federal prosecutors and by congressional investigators because they literally don't have the same kind of loyalty oath. they're thinking about their long-term, their career, their futures, their finances. and staying true to a big lie is more costly for them, personally and financially, reputationally especially. this is a good area essentially to find individuals who will tell the truth about what they wrote in their boss' diary. the schedule of events for that person, the notes they took of the event. >> something that is striking is a conversation, an interview that donald trump recently did, olivia, and take a listen. it was with abc's news chief washington correspondent jonathan carl. >> were you worried about him during that siege? were you worried about his safety? >> no i thought he was well protected. and i had heard that he was in good shape. no, because i heard he was in very good shape. but, no -- >> you heard the chants. that was terrible, you know, the -- >> he could have -- the people were very angry. >> saying hang mike pence. >> it is common sense, john, it is common sense that you are supposed to protect -- how can you -- if you know a vote is fraudulent, how can you pass on a fraudulent vote to congress? >> olivia, so much to unpack there, but take a thread from what carol was saying, the lower junior staff perhaps are look for the longevity of their careers, they don't have the same resources as the older folks. and they may have a different type of loyalty to the former president. how does this strike you with this conversation? are you shocked at the way he's talking about his -- your former boss, vice president pence, who seems to be a loyal -- a party loyalist up to this point? >> i'm shocked to hear someone who is the president of our country speak that way about someone who was his vice president. i still cannot get over the fact that this is a -- this was a leader of the united states, that this is happening in the united states. i think that is the most disturbing thing to me. and the fact that he plainly doesn't care. but it is in keeping with donald trump's character. he doesn't care about anyone but himself. and that is what is unfortunate about all the people who don't want to come forward and tell the truth. the junior staff, they know this, they know they have seen what happens. they have seen the people thrown under the bus. at some point, donald trump will turn on you and look at this. if he doesn't care what is happening to the number two of our country when he was in charge, i think this says everything you have to know about donald trump's character, it is what we know him to be. >> carol, just briefly, what is he trying to telegraph with that interview we just witnessed from jonathan carl? >> he's trying to reinforce he's the standard bearer for this republican party and while mike pence may be saying, that january 6th attack wasn't so bad, you know, all of you supporters of donald trump, you and i can be friends, donald trump's trying to keep that wedge between them and make sure people realize in his view, pence was pushing something improper. in his view, pence was a turncoat, a benedict arnold. but olivia is right about the facts on this, i mean, the facts are really clear. donald trump's goal was to force and pressure and bully mike pence into doing what he wanted, illegal as it was, to maintain his grasp on power and the loyalty that pence showed him for three years and 11 months was not enough for former president donald trump to want to protect him personally and reputationally. >> and, olivia, you were part of the coronavirus task force and we're now starting to learn that there are documents that can actually show that the president at the time was trying to downplay the epidemic, that turned into a pandemic. let me read you a headline from politico. basically it says, quote, the emails and transcripts detailed on how the early days of the 2020 trump and his allies in the white house blocked media briefings and interviews with cdc officials attempted to alter public safety guidance normally cleared by the agency and instructed agency officials to destroy evidence that might be construed as political interference. we are in the middle of a pandemic. and the suppression of actual knowledge that could have helped safeguard the american public, the very administration that was there sent to lead us out of this was trying to suppress it because they didn't like the media optics. what say you? you were in those rooms, what can you share with us right now about these new revelations? >> it is all true. i lived this firsthand. i think it was a really horrible moment for our country to have the people that were supposed to be protecting americans fail them in such a reckless manner. it was about power. we were in an election year at the time. i know for a fact that the guidance was changed. i saw what was changed in the guidance and all of this is accurate. it is unfortunate. it hurt a lot of people, it hurt a lot of lives. and that is honestly why i -- you cannot -- not a day goes by that i don't think about what happened, especially during that last year. and the recklessness and the behavior of individuals who were so selfish and who did not think about the well-being of others and they didn't care. >> we lost close to 600,000 americans at that time of the covid pandemic, to imagine how life would have been different. thank you for joining me this morning. meanwhile, we're about a year out from the 2022 midterms and new polling for the washington post and abc news should be setting off alarm bells for democrats. voters are asked if the election of house of representatives were held today, would you vote for democratic candidate or the republican one? republicans led democrats by about 10% with about 51% of the voters siding with the gop. joining me now is new york democratic congressman hakeem jeffries, chair of the house democratic caucus and former 2020 impeachment manager. what do you make of the poll mentioned? >> i think we're going to have to do a better job of communicating the work we have been undertaking on behalf of the american people. from the very beginning of the biden administration, we have been focused on crushing the virus, super charging the economy, as well as providing relief to everyday americans who are struggling and the context of the pandemic, and, of course, defending our democracy by protecting the right to vote. the biden administration has been tremendously successful. the american rescue plan helped to put us into a much better place. we just passed the bipartisan infrastructure agreement that will be signed tomorrow, that is going to really fix our bridges, roads, tunnels, airports, mass transportation systems, and ensure access to high speed internet, these are all things that are going to benefit the quality of life of everyday americans, and we still got work to do that we will get over the finish line. we're going to have to communicate that work in a more compelling fashion. >> so i guess my question to you, congressman, the narrow victory in new jersey and the loss that we saw in virginia really perhaps speaks to the lack of the communication of how today in america is far different than it was, say, a year ago today under a different administration. what can you recommend for those individuals that want to shy away from the progressive policies that got the house back in 2018 and then secured the senate, the white house, and congress to pass some of this mandate so to speak from the american people? >> well, when we won the house in 2018, we ran by communicating our for the people agenda indicating we were going to lower costs, increase paychecks by investing in our infrastructure, which we just accomplished, and we were going to clean up corruption by defending our democracy. these are all things that we continue to work on as high priorities of the biden administration. the build back better act is going to create millions of good paying jobs, it is going to cut taxes for working families, and it is going to lower costs in healthcare and child care and housing and in education. and so when you look at the totality of the work that will have been completed by the end of the year, the american rescue plan, the bipartisan infrastructure agreement, and finally the build back better act, we will have a compelling set of accomplishments to run on. and the other side is filled with crooks, liars and insurrectionists. at a certain point we have to draw that clear contrast as to what exactly the american people will be buying if the keys to the house of representatives is turned over to kevin mccarthy, marjorie taylor greene, matt gaetz. >> i want to shift gears a little bit. i do believe that your being part of the 2020 impeachment, we have revelations that steve bannon has the receipts admitting that he was part of it, on his podcast. take a listen to this. >> it is not going to happen like you think it's going to happen, okay. it is going to be quite extraordinarily different. and all i can say is strap in. the war room -- a posse. you made this happen. and tomorrow it is game day. so strap in, let's get ready. all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. just understand this. all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. it is going to be moving. it is going to be quick. >> that was january 5th of 2021. and the insurrection happened the next day. what do you say to these audiotapes and how relevant is it that right now steve bannon is getting indicted? what else does he know? >> here in america, no one is above the law. that means the president, that mean his advisers, like steve bannon, all of his handlers and enablers and fellow insurrectionists. the evidence is becoming increasingly clear that steve bannon, donald trump and company, knew exactly what was going to happen in the context of the violent attack on the capitol. it was an attack on the congress, the constitution, and the country. it was an attempt to undermine the peaceful transfer of power and to artificially keep donald trump in office. and there is a through line between what happened on january 6th and what has been happening during the entirety of this long national nightmare when donald trump came on to the national stage, beginning with russian interference in the election in 2016, and then, of course, continuing through the circumstances surrounding the first impeachment with donald trump trying to solicit actively foreign interference in the 2020 election. so at the end of the day, tomorrow, with bannon turning himself in represents another step in accountability. all of the president's men are going to be held accountable. and we're going to make sure donald trump and those involved in the insurrection are held accountable as well. >> we have increased understanding there were elected members of congress that may have contributed to organizing it that day. we look forward to learning more about the standing of that from the committee. congressman hakeem jeffries, thank you and good luck next week. >> thank you. coming up this hour on "velshi," critical race hery has dominated headlines and proven to be a winning tactic for republicans. what can democrats do? we'll put that question to two people following this closely and can help break down what this is really about. and the jury prepares to deliberate the kyle rittenhouse trial. after the break, the magic number is 1.5 degrees celsius. that's what we need to keep our planet from climate change destruction. planet from climate change destruction. ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ as someone who resembles someone else, i appreciate that liberty mutual to unveil them to the world. knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. [ ferry horn honks ] i mean just cause you look like someone else doesn't mean you eat off the floor, [ chuckles ] or yell at the vacuum, or need flea medication. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ it was a dramatic end to the united nations 26th annual climate change summit. one that put the power of language as well as dedication to the climate change to the test. in a last minute turn, india and china successfully modified the wording of the final deal to say the use of coal would be phased down instead of phased out. a change that left act visi act reeling and the president of cop deeply deeply emotional. >> i apologize for the way this process has unfolded. and i am deeply sorry. i also understand the deep disappointment, but i think as you have noted, it is also vital that we protect this package. >> the agreement aimed to cap global warming at 1.5 degrees celsius, to maintain a realistic chance of saving human life on our planet. the significance of that number was hammered home by the prime minister of barbados. >> 1.5 is what we need to survive. 2 degrees, yes, is a death sentence for the people of antigua and barbuda, for the people of the maldives, from the people of fiji, for the people of can kenya and mozambique. and, yes, for the people of samoa and barbados. we do not want that dreaded death sentence. >> the deal is a result of slow negotiations from 200 delegations from around the world. so slow in fact that the summit had to be extended an extra day. balancing the needs of nations that are climate vulnerable and rely on fossil fuel exports is no easy feat. all parties should leave a little unhappy when making a deal. maybe the small step forward is the dire battle against global warming and an example of that, perhaps it is not. coming up, after a long two weeks closing arguments for the kyle rittenhouse trial are expected tomorrow. what you need to know next. at yt hi mr. charles. we made you dinner. aww, thank you. ♪♪ as someone who resembles someone else, i appreciate that liberty mutual aww, thank you. knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ one... two... whatcha got for me, whatcha got? 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>> well, thank you for having me. actually my client went to kenosha, wisconsin, simply to serve as a medic, he provided medical services for both sides, for people that were pro police and those protesting on behalf of jacob blake. i think that's the difference. and my client actually lived in the state of wisconsin, which is a significant difference. >> that is -- thank you so much for clarifying that. i do want to ask you, one thing we found quite interesting was that there is an idea of charging rittenhouse with less charges, and that technically they could be charged separately these two incidents of the shooting. could you elaborate on that and what is the likelihood? >> well, it is common, frankly criminal practice for prosecutors to ask for a lesser included jury instruction once all the evidence has -- i know for a lot of people, they're looking at this as it being an unusual practice. it is very common practice for this to happen. what that means is basically if the actions of the defendant meets the elements of a lesser included defense, with the stakes felony charges, the jury is supposed to consider that as well. it is important for the viewers to keep in mind, there is five -- with regard to the -- rittenhouse's very irresponsible and lethal actions that night. there is richard mcginnis, the journalist out that night, etna huber, jeffrey rosenbaum, gaige grosskreutz, and an unknown male who tried to get protect the lives of others in the community. i think that's important to note. we're focused on the two deceased members and the sole survivor of it -- and gaige grosskreutz but there are other victims in this situation. >> that's a helpful clarification. can you speak how the testimony of kyle rittenhouse, how did it strike you? >> well, frankly, i thought his testimony came frankly slightly inauthentic. i think there was definitely things that he said that were inconsistent with the evidence. for instance, he stated that he would not be -- and there is physical -- there is video evidence and audio evidence you can hear him reracking his gun. and why is that significant? that shows, that demonstrates to me that mr. rittenhouse actually pulled the trigger against my client twice. the first -- the only way you know that -- you have to rerack your gun, if there is a jam or something happening or malfunction with your first pulling of the trigger. he turned his weapon on my client. he pulled the trigger, he turned the weapon, reracked it and pulled the trigger again. thankfully he didn't fatally shoot my client. but i think that's really, really important because it shows his state of mind, and the intent that he had that night. >> a lot of attention has been made to the judge, to judge schroeder, he seems to be steal ing scenes. how is his conduct in the court, how can that implicate the outcome of this court and this jury? >> i mean, i think some of the rulings that the judge has given i found very questionable. i don't agree with some of the things that he has, you know, said. obviously i'm biased. i represent two of the victims. so i wish some of his rulings were frankly more for the prosecution who i think for not just for society and for my clients, but he's the judge on this case, he's the one that decides on, you know, the difference -- calling my client a victim or not calling him a victim within the could court of law, although legally the reason why i'm there, i'm recognized in court as his attorney is because legally he's recognized as a victim in the state of wisconsin. so, you know, you have to deal with the judge that you're dealt, and i think the -- he's been quite hard on the prosecutor. i think there is some questionable things that his actions that he's done in front of the jurors in terms of his language to the prosecutor, him yelling at the prosecutor, i don't think that's appropriate. it seems quite biased at times. but at the end of the day, he's the judge. you have to deal with what you have. >> there is a lot to unpack there, kimberly. thank you so much for joining me this morning. >> thank you for having me. coming up, good news for some lucky families at the southern border who are reuniting with their friends and family after spending the pandemic apart. we'll be right back. spending t pandemic apart we'll be right back. don't settle. start your day with secret. secret stops odor-causing sweat 3x more. and the provitamin b5 formula is gentle on skin. with secret, outlast anything! no sweat. secret. ♪ all strength. no sweat. ♪ (man) i've made progress with my mental health. so when i started having unintentional body movements called tardive dyskinesia... ... i ignored them. but when the movements in my hands and feet started throwing me off at work... i finally had to say, 'it's not ok.' it was time to talk to my doctor about austedo. she said that austedo helps reduce td movements in adults... ...while i continue with most of my mental health medications. 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>> "walk on by". there are a lot of them, but -- >> don't walk on by. stay tuned to jonathan capehart. make sure to join jonathan on "the sunday show" right after "velshi" at the top of the hour, 10:00 a.m. eastern. we'll be right back. the hour, 10:00 a.m. eastern we'll be right back. republicans are pouring millions into anti-critical race theory candidates. what they need to do to combat this message next. what they need to do to combat this message next. ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner with access to financial advice, tools and a personalized plan that helps you build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner. people everywhere living with type 2 diabetes are waking up to what's possible with rybelsus®. ♪ you are my sunshine ♪ ♪ my only sunshine... ♪ rybelsus® is a pill that lowers blood sugar in three ways. increases insulin when you need it... decreases sugar... and slows food. the majority of people taking rybelsus® lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than 7. rybelsus® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't take rybelsus® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop rybelsus® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. tell your provider about vision problems or changes. taking rybelsus® with a sulfonylurea or insulin increases low blood sugar risk. side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. wake up to what's possible with rybelsus®. ♪ please don't take my sunshine away ♪ you may pay as little as $10 per prescription. ask your healthcare provider about rybelsus® today. tide pods ultra oxi one ups the cleaning power of liquid. can it one up whatever they're doing? 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>> we as a country are still reckoning with the original sin of this country, race and racism and its continued legacy on americans living today and what the way forward is going to be. listen, we can keep saying this again and again, critical race theory is not something that is being taught in the public school system and we know that the culture war has been fought in the classroom before, in this country. that is what it is to know our history and, you know, as the mantra goes, to not know and learn our history means that we are doomed to repeat it. with school districts trying to be more inclusive and responsive to changing demographics in their communities, there is going to continue to be tensions that are going to translate into our politics at the local and national level. and that is something that the gop has certainly signaled that they are aware of, are planning to win on, and are planning to continue to campaign on. this is not happening just in virginia, but in districts across the country. who we include in this conversation as parents, as educators and as voters is really important in this moment as we attempt to gain a fuller understanding of our past. things like critical race theory, 1619 project, isn't going anywhere. the latest iteration of nicole hannah jones' project trying to tell a fuller history of this country will be out just this week. >> and, judith, something fascinating, you ask the majority of americans what critical race theory is, they have no idea what it means. and it really is this idea of recognizing the totality of american history and i think only of secretary of transportation pete buttigieg who acknowledged the need for infrastructure money to tear down the systemic racism we saw in our infrastructure, in our highways. how do you explain this to families that the importance of us not to repeat the sins of the past, we must share the totality of our history so that our children can also grapple with it in a way that is built on an analysis and thoughtfulness. >> critical race theory, most people don't know what it means. i went to law school. i learned critical race theory in law school. it is about teaching how the law has been infected by racism. and how we have created structures of racism. and so that's important. the people who are fighting against critical race theory don't know what it is. they were fed that because somebody on the right, they sat in a meet, sat around the table and said, what can we use this time to -- as a race wedge? what about this thing called critical race theory. we don't know what it is, but it says race in it, let's use it. here is the thing, we can't step away from talking about race and racism in our schools. even k through 12. because i'm of the generation where i remember buying hallmark cards and having to color in the people on the cards because they didn't look like me. it is important we have these conversations, because, number one, our children, children of color need to see themselves in our history. number two, white students need to understand the history of this country so that we can all be working towards solutions and not erasing the past, because this is also, in addition to a mobilizer, this is a campaign of disinformation. so that there is the ability to maintain power and privilege in the hands of white folks. >> and erin hayes and judith brown, stay with us. we'll continue the conversation after the break. us. we'll continue the conversation after the break. here comes the interception. oh... -shawn? 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(woman) yeah, y-you did. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ it's another day. and anything could happen. it could be the day you welcome 1,200 guests and all their devices. or it could be the day there's a cyberthreat. only comcast business' secure network solutions give you the power of sd-wan and advanced security integrated on our activecore platform so you can control your network from anywhere, anytime. it's network management redefined. every day in business is a big day. we'll keep you ready for what's next. comcast business powering possibilities. welcome back to "velshi." i want to continue the conversation we were having before the break about the issue of race and racism being on the ballot and on the campaign trail. back with me are erin hayes, editor at large for the 19th news and msnbc contributor, and judith brown diana, executive director of the advancement project national office. judith, to you. there was an interesting poll recently conducted according to slate.com's analysis of fox news poll. respondents opposed the teaching of critical race theory by 24 percentage points, but parents opposed it by five points because many parents aren't white and the nonwhite respondents were twice as likely to favor critical race theory as opposed to it. what is really fascinating, we just found out from the census that of the 300 million americans here, that are living in this country, only 30% of them have children in schools that are -- they happen to be disproportionately parents of color. what do you say about this? >> i think this fight over crt is overblown, right, first of all. because the media is covering it, giving it a lot of time, when that's really not what the issues are in public schools. right. the people who attend public schools for their children, they're concerned about making sure they have the resources they need. they're concerned about criminalization. they are concerned about the school to prison pipeline. they're concerned about whether or not there are covid protections for their children. and so i think that this fight is, again, something stoked up by the right, as their ability to mobilize, and the question is what are dems going to do with that. the last i heard, last summer we had a so-called racial reckoning in this country. and the dems can walk away from that and listen to james carville and talk about going to detox center for wokeness. or they can actually lean into where americans are, which is the people want to come together, they showed up in streets last summer. and we need to be able to lean into the idea that people want a different america that is inclusive. >> i want to pick up on that, last year there was a reckoning in the streets where a multicultural america came out and protested the tragic killing of george floyd. and yet it seems that the democrats now don't want to heed what the majority of americans are saying, that we need to confront our past in order to heel and move into the future. how are they going to be able to reconcile this moving into the 2022 election, where they are saying the house is on fire, but for all the wrong reasons? >> well, you know, i think that to judith's point, not talking about systemic racism helps to perpetuate systemic racism. there was certainly a national reckoning last summer where you saw a multiracial and intergenerational really intersectional group of americans in the streets, in cities across the country, in a sustained effort to really try to raise awareness around issues of institutional inequality and learning about a lot of white americans frankly learning about for the first time issues of privilege and the role of white americans historically, in perpetuating that inequality, right, and wanting to get that history so that they can make different choices so that we can all make different choices as a democracy and as a society going forward. but the reality is that there were multiple reckons around race that emerged, that have emerged over the past several years. you had the reckoning last summer, but you also had a reckoning around race in charlottesville in 2017. you had a reckoning that was race-based with the january 6th insurrection. and you are having a reckoning that is taking place in school boards across the country. over the next year it is going to be imperative, i think, for us as journalists to not just be in the barbershops and diners, but to be at school board meetings. that's where a lot of this conversation is playing out, these questions over the future of education in our public school systems are absolutely going to be political at the ballot box and this is an issue that is going to affect democrats, republicans and independents and everybody in between who is interested in this issue. >> so many of the people protesting at the critical race theory at the school board meetings didn't have children of their own. what would you communicate right now because we have just a brief time to the democrats who are saying that they do not want to talk about the issues of race. when i believe you and i have spoken several times that everything that is around issues of race is not just about the agency of someone's ability to be who they are, but turns out to be also whether or not they can thrive in this country. >> the dems can ignore race and racism and lose. america's in a different place. and people are ready to have this conversation but also not to just have the conversation, but to find real solutions. >> thank you, erin hayes and judith brown diana. this conversation is not done, but thank you so much for joining me this morning. >> that does it for me. thanks for watching "velshi." ali will be back next weekend. catch "velshi" every saturday and sunday morning from 8:00 to 10:00 a.m. eastern. go nowhere. "the sunday show" with my friend jonathan capehart starts right now. one win down, one to go. president biden signs the bipartisan infrastructure bill into law tomorrow. but will his build back better human infrastructure plan get across the finish line? congresswoman pramila jayapal, chair of the congressional progressive caucus, joins me live to discuss. also happening tomorrow, steve bannon is expected to turn himself in on contempt of congress charges as the january 6th committee ponders what to do about mark meadows, another trumper who deied their subpoena. and the high price of everything. >> restaurants too. they have gone through the roof. i think that's another 15, 20%. groceries and going out to eat is really expensive. >> why inflation is at a 30-year high, even with a booming economy. i'm jonathan capehart. this is "the sunday show." this sunday, lawmakers a

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