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Transcripts For MSNBC Morning Joe 20240709 : comparemela.com

Transcripts For MSNBC Morning Joe 20240709



thursday morning "morning joe" starts right now. >> have we beaten the virus? >> to beat the virus, we have to beat donald trump. >> beaten we did. >> the winner of michigan is biden. >> we are winning wisconsin. >> biden is the winner in wisconsin. ? the state of georgia, joe biden is the apparent winner. we are winning pennsylvania by a tremendous amount. >> joe biden won pennsylvania. >> as long as he still has arizona, the presidency is in the bag. >> fox news decision is calling arizona for joe biden. what did the fox say? ♪♪ ♪ ♪ ding, do, ding, ding ♪ >> it's time to protest. it's time to get your maga on. >> somebody is covering it up. joe biden is covering up the election, he's stealing it. >> where were we? what was the last question >> now, let's head to the fall season. landscaping company. all the networks, wow. keep it down. keep it down rudy. they're trying - >> it's funny but that actually happened. >> good morning and welcome to "morning joe," it's thursday, november 4th, joe is off this morning along with willie and me. we have our editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson, peter baker and host of "way too early," jonathan lemire and i am just noticing with the guys here in d.c. that the christmas comes around, it's around christmas cups at starbucks, willie. >> a little past pumpkin spice and straight into the peppermint. >> it's way too early. >> it's way too early but you know what, we have a lot to get to this morning. democrats are trying to figure out whether or not to pass the infrastructure and social spending agenda hurt them in tuesday's virginia governor race. this morning we have the perfect two guests to talk about this. coming up we'll be talking about this with senator joe manchin. one of the key democrats pumping the brakes in the reconciliation bill. we'll speak with the chair of the house progressive caucus, jayapal, who says both bills need to be passed. we'll hear from the president and get his take on this question. it's interesting, i mean really weird actually. i don't get it. after hearing from republicans about whied spread voter fraud and this sort of crisis of rigged elections. do you remember all that? >> yeah. >> our country was braced for you know for horrible futures because of this election. >> who knows? >> but apparently they forgot how to play dirty into tuesday's elections. we'll look at real reasons why republicans were silent of the issues of election fraud. just nothing about it, willie. >> eerily silent for people concerned of election integrity. >> we'll speak to dr. vivek murthy as the cdc issued pfizer shots for children kids from 5 to 11. >> i can be back to normal in my classroom. >> reporter: with doses arriving by the hour, hospitals and clinics wise are full of vaccination. at children's national hospital, the eight-year-old with type one diabetes was among the first at risk kid to get the shot with therapy dog by his side. >> done! >> reporter: since day one, his parents limited his exposure to other kids. >> it has been 600 long days and things can start to come back to normal. >> reporter: in houston, texas children's hospital working through 36,000 appointments to vaccinate 5 to 11 years old. >> it kind of hurt. >> reporter: cameron emanuel. >> our whole family has been fully vaccinated. she was the last one had not been. >> reporter: a recent study found most parents won't get their kids vaccinated. many concerned of unknown side effects. >> i let them get vaccinated for all other things but this -- i just don't trust. >> reporter: the cdc director insisted this vaccine is among the most thoroughly reviewed ever. >> we have thoroughly reviewed all of the available safety and efficacy data before recommending this vaccine for your child. >> back in washington, how do you feel? >> half way vaccinated. >> reporter: eight-year-old carter already looking forward to his second dose. >> way to go, carter. that's nbc's tom costello reporting. this is the last year or so has been so politicizepoliticized, l families living in fear, the father said 600 days for their child and they're worried any time their kids go to school or to a dance or whatever, they could get sick and now the miracle, thanks to a couple of administrations, pharmaceuticals and doctors and scientists of shots going into the arms of young kids. >> it's amazing. this will become politicized, we'll take a look at some leaders who are not on the side of getting kids vaccinated if you can imagine. that could lead to problems because the vaccine is now available, that miracle is available. parents need to step up and bring their kids in just like they get vaccinated for other things to go to school. >> when we left the air yesterday morning, new jersey race for governor was still too close to call and it was not until yesterday evening when nbc news was able to project incumbent phil murphy as the winner with 88% of the vote in. nbc gives murphy a 50.3 to 48.9 lead. murphy spoke to supporters after the much closer than expected race. >> you know we just had the most new jersey experience. i was on my way some place and it took us longer to get there than we planned. if you want to know what the future looks like, come to new jersey. >> if you want to understand where america is heading, look to new jersey. >> he now becomes the second new jersey democrat to win the seventh term governor. it took a little longer to get there but it's painful. the process, virginia and new jersey, this should have been easier? >> well, you know, if history is a guide, for example, should have been that easy. traditionally what has happened the year after winning the white house and the party loses virginia and can have a rough time in new jersey as well. so murphy won. does it go well for democrats in the midterm? not particularly though, it does not. >> we'll be looking into whether or not the passing of anything could have helped. peter baker, what about trump's hora over the virginia election. >> this is really interesting. there are two lessons when i think of trump when it comes to virginia. one democrat who runs a campaign just about trump don't have a winning strategy, right? that was terry mcauliffe's strategy, youngkin is another trump and it didn't sell when trump was not on the ballot. having said that, trump would like to say, hey, this is good news for me. virginia is perfectly running for republicans, just fot for him. they voted ten points more for youngkin than trump. why? they rejected voting for trump and excited to come out a republican, a republican who's not as often the deep end as the trump's style. he tried to navigate this path where he was not too trumpian. >> he did a good job at that. >> we are talking about the political implications of this race. it will be interesting to see how youngkin is as a governor, and followed the science on covid pandemic with masks and vaccines and virginia did a very good job. youngkin is a rising republican star now field compel to emulate ron desantis in florida or greg abbott in texas that are skeptical of vaccine mandates would be a problem. >> northam was supportive of the whole racial reckoning movement and moing confederate monument. >> i think this kind of twisted reality, that longer covid exists, the better for republicans. even though their supporting policies that'll spread the virus and we'll look at what's happening in florida and we'll get for more on that in a little bit. as long as covid hangs over us and coursing through our society whether it's variants or delta or a new one, that makes biden looks back and the other issue has not been addressed enough by the administration or democrats. people are going to stores and they can't get christmas present and nothing comes into the mail anymore. their actual lives are getting clunkier or many of them are getting harder. this is something falls on the democrats because biden is president, whether or not it's an offshoot of everything that's happening the past two or three or four years. >> as for what the party learned the defeat up and down the ballots in virginia. congress' failure to pass infrastructure may have contributed to the losses. >> people want to see us get things done. people need a little breathing room. they're overwhelmed. we have to produce results for them to change their standard of living. i think we should have passed before election day. but, i am not sure i would be able to have change the number of very conservative folks who turned out and their red districts who are trump voters but maybe, maybe. >> so jonathan, the president went out yesterday and simply gotten this legislation through, we got to produce for the american people and give them reason to vote for us, privately as you talk to people around the white house, how concerned were they not just in virginia or new jersey. you look at ballots at these races within new jersey and long island and republicans taking over, you had republicans talking about 2022 yesterday already comparing it to 2010 which president obama called a shalaking democrats when they lost 63 seats in the house. >> republicans take back control in that body as he thinks they can pick up 60 seats in next year's election. the historic head winds this democrats are facing. that off year election and virginia as eugene just noted. that's going to be hard. this is also the last two months have not gone exactly to plan for this administration. they are looming real supply chain issues. we had a surge in covid cases late summer thank to the delta variant and they are declining and good news for the children's vaccine. the white house is eager for the president out. there is a real concern here. they do feel like they need to get this agenda passed. polling suggests that virginia election did not have much to do with president biden but certainly the messy process to get it done in washington when democrats control all of congress in the white house they certainly turns some voters off. aides i have talked to say they hopeful this is a wake up call to get something done and get it done soon because democrats did not have something to run on this time, we needed, they say for the midterms. they'll need to have this and they feel like they need to do a better job of what's selling the the bill. too much discussion of price tag and manchin and sinema and jayapal. they need to talk about this program benefiting, selling that can be how they try to hang on congress next fall. >> as you know if we get these two big pieces of legislations through, they would have gone through $1.9 trillion of covid-19 relief and build back for all these social programs and that's a heck of a first year for any president. how worried are they now based on what happened yesterday. boy, the margins could possiby be in congress for this white house who get anything done. >> the closer you get to the election, the harder it becomes to that narrow majority. they end up getting something threw alopg the line. they're talking about something of $1.2 trillion for home care and climate initiatives and things like that. it will be less than progressives and less than what biden wanted. it will be a huge congressman. i think you know this has sort of sour people on democratic governance at the moment. they need to turn the story around from being about how they get there to what they're going to do and that's a big challenge. >> jean, can we agree they can get something done and pass soon and get to the people? >> yeah. >> so as we prepare for joe manchin to come on the show, what are the key questions for manchin and jayapal. >> the key thing is to get the two of them together in a room. >> are they at the same time? >> those are the two major players. the key question manchin said, cost, scopes, he had problems on both scores. >> those seemed simple. >> we are talking arithmetic, right? >> right. >> we are talking congressional arithmetic. >> how long, and how dynamics scoring and this and that. >> there are still amazing things to brag on, you just have to agree on it. >> if you list things that joe manchin believes in or won. there is so much overlap there. there is enough overlap that -- >> trying to get paid leave back. i don't know what's going on. >> everybody has moved the gold post and this whole negotiation and nancy pelosi just moved it again and by the way, manchin says he won, he just won separately. >> okay. >> again, there is a lot of issues but they should not be that. >> okay, we'll ask the principles themselves. we'll have more ahead on the questions and whether an infrastructure deal could have helped democrats this week. senator joe manchin and congresswoman jayapal will be our guest this morning. several republicans who attended the protrump rally in washington on january 6th, the insurrection were elected to public office this week. what that says about the gop and the fight for democracy? also, ahead, green bay packer, aaron rogers will miss this sunday's game after testing positive for coronavirus. now there are questions about whether or not he was vaccinated. you are watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. joe," we'll be right back. the best things america makes are the things america makes out here. the history she writes in her clear blue skies. the legends she births on hometown fields. and the future she promises. when we made grand wagoneer, proudly assembled in america, we knew no object would ever rank with the best things in this country. but we believed we could make something worthy of their spirit. ♪♪ someday you'll be better than your grandpa. - you try it. - i don't know what to draw? it doesn't matter what. just... a line. throw yourself in. ♪♪ don't be frustrated! okay. ♪♪ show me what you got there. ♪♪ wow... absolutely beautiful. in 2016, i was working at the amazon warehouse when my brother passed 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(phone chimes) ♪ ♪ ♪ i jump up on the stage ♪ move your student loan debt to sofi. earn a $500 bonus when you refi... and feel what it's like to get your money right. ♪ i do my money dance ♪ hi sabrina! hi jen! hi. so you're the scientist here. i just have to ask. does my aveeno® daily moisturizer really make my dry skin healthier in one day? it's true jen. really?! this nourishing prebiotic oat formula moisturizes to help prevent dry skin. one day? for real! wow! aveeno® healthy. it's our nature.™ i gotta say i'm still impressed. very impressed. new daily moisture for face. everything you love for your body now for your face. it's time for our veteran's day sale on the sleep number 360 smart bed. what if i sleep hot? ...or cold? new daily moisture for face. no problem, the sleep number 360 smart bed is temperature balancing so you both sleep just right. and it senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both effortlessly comfortable. so, you can really promise better sleep? yes! you'll know exactly how well you slept, night after night. we take care of the science. all you have to do is sleep. and now, save $1,000 on the sleep number 360 special edition smart bed, now only $1,999. plus, 0% interest for 24 months. only for a limited time welcome back to "morning joe," a live look at philadelphia. time to wake up, get up, have that coffee. the supreme court justices appeared skeptical of a new york law requiring a special need to get a permit for carrying a concealed gun outside of the home. the court heard oral arguments yesterday. the conservative suggested that it may violate the second amendment. two-hour argument of the proliferation of guns in public spaces and it was unclear how broadly the court may go in clarifying the second amendment rights according to "the washington post." some worried about guns on new york subways and yankees stadium on new york university urban campus or busy times square. a ruling against new york would have consequences for at least half a dozen other states including maryland, california, and massachusetts which have similar laws and big cities except buy gun violence. jeff merkley's statement. the statement reads "black lives matter here in the halls of congress, it's important that we not just speak and believe these words but put them into action in the decisions we make." "i have carefully mayor emanuel's record and the input of civil rights leaders and criminal justice experts." manuel's nomination descends the floor yesterday. several republicans backed the former mayor and definitely wanted him in place. los angeles' mayor, eric garcetti is isolating after testing positive covid-19. a spokesperson from the mayor says garcetti has been taken rapid antigent test for the conference all came back negative but the test he took for coming back home was positive. the mayor says he has no symptoms. he's scheduled to come back on november 13th. more covid news. aaron rogers will miss sunday's game. he'll sit out the game after reports came out that the quarterback tested positive for covid-19. here what i say the quarterback had to say if august when he was asked specifically whether he was vaccinated for covid. >> are you vaccinated and what's your stance on vaccinations? >> yeah, immunized. i think it's a personal decision and i am not going to judge those guys. >> the three-time mvp received alternative treatment which he believes would inoculate him from the covid-19. it's clear he did not get vaccinated. reports came out that he received treatments from his doctor to raise his antibody levels but he did not get vaccinated. the question is was he following protocols or unvaccinated players or carry on as if he was vaccinated not that the league said he was but he says he was inoculated. >> the report around this story suggests that rogers were following procedures as if he were vaccinated. they have been strict on this. mayors who are not vaccinated have to be in different meetings and have to wear masks and much more social distancing and partial -- your team could get punish if there is an outbreak and so on. rogers is one of the top three or four biggest stars in the league, shows up to camp saying he was immunized and not vaccinated. the reporting was nasal spray that he thought would protect him from covid-19. and perceived to act as if he received the shots and not wearing a mask which endangered the safety of other people there, not just players but staefrs, team officials. people there who assumed he was vaccinated and yet he was not and he carried himself as he was not. he wants out. this may help his case to leave. he's going to miss this week's game and it does not seem like he handles this well and players are grumbling of the conduct of their team leader. >> you have to wonder did the packers know that aaron rogers was not vaccinated? that was august and how many months away and three months away of him moving in and out of unvaccinated and being in the quarterback room and if packers tested positive for covid. the backup did not have covid and they drafted him last year and thought to be the replacement for rogers in green may. there is a lot of questions not for aaron rogers but the packers who knew he was not vaccinated and let him carry on. >> right, what did they know and when did they know? there is no incentives for the packers to look the other way because they can be severely punish and they can lose a game or money. and i keep wondering what must his teammates think? he let them down. he made them vulnerable not only to a deadly disease but also potential outbreak that can penalize him and their season in a way that's not fair. >> it was not fair. this word game of i have been immunized as if that's -- it's just wrong. i think he let the packers down. he let his teammates down. >> the new york city, the vaccine mandates, the numbers work. vaccine mandates among city employees and all front line workers, the number goes down. i wish people can look at the science. coming up, a stunning new claim about the deadly shooting on the set of "rust," it was no accident. attorney involved in the case a live bullet was purposely planted. we'll dig into that ahead. y planted. we'll dig into that ahead. with relapsing forms of ms... there's a lot to deal with. not just unpredictable relapses. all these other things too. it can all add up. kesimpta is a once-monthly at-home injection... that may help you put these rms challenges in their place. kesimpta was proven superior at reducing the rate of relapses, active lesions, and slowing disability progression vs aubagio. don't take kesimpta if you have hepatitis b, and tell your doctor if you have had it, as it could come back. kesimpta can cause serious side effects, including infections. while no cases of pml were reported in rms clinical trials, it could happen. tell your doctor if you had or plan to have vaccines, or if you are or plan to become pregnant. kesimpta may cause a decrease in some types of antibodies. the most common side effects are upper respiratory tract infection, headache, and injection reactions. ready for an at-home treatment with dramatic results? 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>> thank you, i wish that's a great point. it's a way of extending the trajectory of our moral viewpoint and our ethical insights and our appreciation for what it means to be a black person in america and what it means to be an american in the world and to be a citizen among others. the quest for liberation and emancipation and that's jay-z and beyonce. the exceptional is one thing the everyday is another. what politicians do, what managers of music do and what people who go to corporate america do and what reporters do? >> eugene. >> michael, it's jean robinson, congratulations on the book. i have said it to you many times because you are a great and prolific author. talk about how it has changed overtime if indeed it has. has the tone intended of black performance changed in the way african-americans communicate through performance, has that changed? >> very subtle but powerful. when you think about the fact that i mentioned lewis armstrong or ellington, they're trying to make argument for the humanity of black people and the intelligence of black people and for the acceptance of black people. they were ambassadors for us, blowing their trumpets and playing their pianos and singing their songs to open up space to accept african-american people. jackie robinson or henry aaron and wilma rudolph. the contemporary artists may have occupied our space and have a different outlook. hip-ho marks a tremendous shift. we are going to speak the way we speak, we are not going to be respectable, we are going to use words our mothers and fathers find -- the point is hip-hop demands a hearing o f the dominant culture and you must cross over to us and speak our vocabulary and our language and learn our grammar and learn our way of being. that marks a significance shift over the black performances over the last few decades. >> what's the impact? white america did cross over into the black vernacular and you know in a major way to quote where it became dominant sort of musical genre in the country and the world. has that made a difference in terms of how the largest society seize african-americans as part of the natural fabric. >> i think so. when i teach hip-hop in college and university classrooms, most of my students don't happen to be african-american or black, they can be asians, latinos or white students who are coming to the classroom expecting some intense engagement with some of the most intelligent thinkers about issues of race and pop culture and sexuality and the struggles of what it means to be a human being. in that sense, yes. also when we think about you know barack obama feeding jay-z, that's coming full circle. obama was made president because of a guy like a jay-z opening up space for young white people to believe that a highly authoratative black man can speak intelligently and black man can be a leader and white fox can follow a person like that. that created a political space for obama to manage and escalate himself and to elevate the ladder of success. in both of that census opened performances for black people in this country. >> i want to ask you, you started talking about the power of music, i can speak from my own experience as a white kid in the suburbs listening to hip-hop, it started with a good beat and all of a sudden you are listening to the lyrics of nwa or public enemy and you are hearing the stories of what's happening in their lives and community and you are listening and paying attention and understanding. what was the power of that early hip-hop as it started top move from the inner cities and spill out into the suburbs and as you say open some space for other people to come into that door. >> it's a great point. >> this has been a past for many people in suburbs and urban areas to communicate with people they did not necessarily grow up with. you are trying to grapple with the everyday experiences of intelligent thinkers who are trying to talk about issues of importance and for young white kids to encounter that and hear it first of all, it's like a jungle and makes me wonder how i keep from going under and broken glass everywhere, people blank on the stairs and just don't care and you go from that from the police so police think they have the authority to kill a minority. wow, what's going on there? osama bin laden been happening in manhattan, you know and tupac says the other day i got lynched by some crooked cops. when i get my check, they're taking tax out so we are paying the cops to knock them out. the intense struggle between police department and african-american communities, they were introduced to that by some of the most powerful lyrics were law and naked in their honesty and speaking of issues of trauma and tragedy. the rap music pointed attention to. that with along of all fun. how can i move the crowd? first of all, ain't no mistakes allowed. if you can bump the behind, you can enlighten the brain. >> i am not going to try to do that. >> let me ask you this, your definition of performance is fairly broad and obviously different impacts for our music and politicians and dr. king. and you also mentioned george floyd's last performance. tell us what it means and what we have seen come from that. >> it's a great point. for know george floyd flying if the street dying is engaging of vulnerability of black death. these films is a director of a tragic scene of the last minute of a black man's life. george floyd is an actor, not desiring to be an actor, not seeking to be an actor but none the less an actor in a larger place of black survival and black struggle and in this case, black surrender and black death, the in ability to acknowledge a fellow black citizen and the way it played out. he was apart of this large drama and demise and performing to and the humanity of black people and even in the midst of a certain situation calling on his mother and saying that i can't breathe and maintaining the integrity of his belief until the end. it was an extraordinary performance but an performance none the less. >> michael, thank you so much for being with us. still ahead, sounding alarm after a series of unexpected losses or closer than anticipated race this is week. we have several top democratic lawmakers joining us ahead including senator chris murphy and our congresswoman jayapal and senator joe manchin. and senate republicans once again blocked a voting rights bill prompting fresh calls to end the filibuster. that's all ahead on "morning joe," we'll be right back. on "g joe," we'll be right back. there's a different way to treat hiv. it's once-monthly injectable cabenuva. cabenuva is the only once-a-month, complete hiv treatment for adults who are undetectable. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by a healthcare provider once a month. hiv pills aren't on my mind. i love being able to pick up and go. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions post-injection reactions, liver problems,...and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver problems or mental health concerns, and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection site reactions, fever, and tiredness. if you switch to cabenuva, attend all treatment appointments. with once-a-month cabenuva, i'm good to go. ask your doctor about once-monthly cabenuva. as someone who resembles someone else, with once-a-month cabenuva, i'm good to go. i appreciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ welcome back to "morning joe," we continue with what exactly happened on the set of "rust." the attorney is now suggesting the bullet was planted? >> reporter: it was no accident on the set of "rust," that's the stunning and the explosive claim from the attorney representing hanna glee. >> are you suggesting that is case of about sabotage. >> reporter: the 24-year-old did check the revolver before dave hall gave the gun to alec baldwin. she could not tell the difference between blanks or the real bullet in the chamber. >> a dummy round looks similar to a round. euless, texas got a primer. >> reporter: the gun sat on the cart for 2.5 hours when someone tampered with the ammo. >> she tried to do her best, she could not be around the cart 24/7. there were other assistants watching the ammo before she could be. >> reporter: the sheriff says gutierrez reeds and hall remaining the investigation. >> reporter: lane looper resigns hours before the fatal shooting. >> everybody is trying to reach for answer. allegations like that thatshort and lame and quite frankly offensive. >> reporter: the production company has not responded to the new allegation. >> we'll be following that story and as we round out the hour, let's take a look ahead at politics of the week. peter baker, i am not going to make you nervous but your boss is watching you right now. what's the key question for the top democrats in the senate and the house in terms of getting a deal done. >> the big question is terry mcauliffe asked them to do it. you have to show you can get something done. joe biden asked him to do it before he left europe. you have to show something i can get something accomplished and he didn't. is this going to change it or are they going to bicker the details. >> coming up, should swing states reconsider their votes on reconciliation, given the outcome of the governor's race in virginia. there maybe some second thoughts on capitol hill in the wake of that election. plus, with thanksgiving just weeks away, poitics is sure to be a topic at many dinner table. we'll be together this year so this can be awkward. we'll speak with an author who'll help us learn how to coexist with people who'll drive you nuts. 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robinson and jonathan lemire is still with us. >> kirsten powpowers, her new b is "saving grace," learn to coexist with the people who drives you nuts. we'll get some great advice here, we needed now than ever. you thought maybe the timing was wrong. >> new york city i have a lack of imagination. >> the timing is just right for this book and so many ways. we'll talk about that in just a moment. it's now one year and one day since the last presidential election and the election donald trump lost and used to insight his reporters to storm the capitol in january. at least seven people attended the protrump rally in washington proceeded the insurrection were elected to public office. this is what i am talking about. one was elected to a local school committee in massachusetts. one was reelected to the board of directors in new jersey. as for the washington post reports, none were charged with crimes and all denied being part of the mob that ransacked capitol hill. still, it suggests that trumpism is alive and well in part of the country as extremism takes roots in american politics. jean robinson, if you can take it a step further, i think in some ways, the meter had not moved at all since trump left office and while this administration is grappling with the problems that it adopted from the last administration, these problems are in some ways either still existing or the after effects of these problems, supply chain shortages or economic issues are still hitting us. it's actually hurting the current administration. >> yeah, if it rains, you get the blame or the credit. we need the rain, right? so whatever happens, still biden is going to get the credit or blame. >> the needle has not moved that much. i think you know from the vantage point, we see covid cases are moving down. we don't see the impact yet because we are not back to normal. we feel like we are still in the middle of january 6th in a lot of ways because those cases are unresolved and we have not come to any closure on that. we feel that donald trump is still part of our lives although not quite in the way he was before. >> let's get some perspectives and maybe we'll look back. >> he does not have a megaphone that he used to have but conspiracy theories still kind of coarsed through the veins of americans. we have a lot of people who are really, really hell-bent on vaccines and masks that even though donald trump vaccinated, does go back to him. i just worry that biden, everybody expected or thought at best he would be a transitional figure and that would help america move beyond these sorts of phase and polarization. i feel like it's getting worse. >> i think we are in a transition periods. we know we have discussed this this morning already. glenn youngkin is a template of where trumpism is going. he embraced trump in some degrees in the primaries but you did not see him doing that in the general election and that seems to work. you saw people who did not vote for trump last time were turned off by his politics but did vote for youngkin. republicans are ecstatic about this. they see a path for the future in 2022 and 2024. i will also say and i will point out that 70% of adults are close to vaccinated. there is a shift from 2020/2019 and it's just that it has not been fast enough for a lot of people and there is a lot of frustration and we are still living with covid. you can't get your refrigerator or washer machine on time. >> mike barnicle , is that shift happening as elizabeth and jean are pointing out, the concept of cops and firefighters and members of the military even choosing not to push back against a vaccine that would save their lives and family lives and the community they protect. maybe those that are holding out stand out to us more. >> mika. this is a big restless, anxious country that we live in today. the results in virginia are just part of all of that. and, one of the i think if you look at the virginia results and look at your neighbors and if you look at the way people live each and everyday, you understand that the questioning is constant and it's uncomfortable. will covid be with us forever? do i put the mask on or off? what is going to happen to my children? my children and my public school children having lost 18 to 24 months of education. how is that going to impact our future? on and off again and remote learning and shut out of school and going back to school and school buses not running and we don't have enough drivers, i can't buy something in the store because it won't be in until february. a whole conglomerate question that affects us all. once you take the pump out and put it out in your car and as you stare at that meter, wow, gas is costing a lot more than six months or so ago. all of those issues, all of those daily problems that people live with, you put that in the political pot and i am talking about terry mcauliffe, he does not sound like he's talking about something that affects your life. he's talking about donald trump. i don't care about donald trump. i care about my son or daughter and sophomore in high school, what's going to happen to them? i care about the cost of milk and gasoline. tell me about that. not donald trump. donald trump is in my rear-view mirror, what's the direction? god love him he's trying to do the right thing and he's got a split senate, he's got stuff on the table that would help every american and they won't she get it done. >> one has been noticeably absent. this is so strange. we heard this everywhere. all of a sudden, crickets and voter fraud. what happened? everything is fixed. >> and the virginia election, that was run by democrats. >> clean as a whistle. >> down the line and it was just clean. >> i am so glad. gosh, for over a year now, former president donald trump and many of his allies have continued to aggressively promote their baseless claim that the 2020 election was rigged and stolen, all apart of the big lie. since tuesday, the anniversary of what trump called crime of the century, there has been silence. the former head of the government cyber security, chris krebs tweeted, good news everyone, apparently we secured all elections in the last year because i am not seeing a lot of claims of fraud or stolen elections since yesterday. congrats to all your heart work. eric erickson summed it up this way. shut up about stolen elections. and did you really have clung to the 2020 stolen election? it lets you sleep well at night in please unfriend me or unfollow me because your presence is needed in neverland and not here in reality. if you are upset, i said this to quote all of you when you talk about progressives and your feelings. i am quoting there. democrats appeared to forgotten how to manipulate voting machines and stuff ballot boxes and engage in the wee-hour ballot dumps and collect ballots from dead people and coordinate with chinese and venezuela and government to change the outcome of elections. two-thirds of americans believed that's what happened in 2020. and yet, one year later, democrats have lost a nack. kirsten, this is why you are here today. >> this is the crazy making. >> come on, what happened? >> the thing is, i guess i am optimistic than you guys are. i hope you are right and i am wrong. >> it's a very difficult thing to get past and so i think that we do have such a polarized world where we have democrats and republicans basically if you are looking at surveys they do that they think the other side is down right evil. i don't see this correcting in any major way any time soon unfortunately. we have large groups of people who are living in another reality. >> well, i am worried it could recreate and get worse again. it actually applies to your book. the fact that they were talking about the election, there are signs in a neighborhood in virginia that it was in yesterday saying you know, biden lost, trump won still today. two days along with the glenn youngkin sign. your book is about coexisting with these really big differences and some of those differences based on conspiracy theories or whatnot. you say chapter 7 and i really like this, it's really important. it's one practical idea that encapsulate grace. it's the belief that people are doing the best they can with what they have. that's a real core philosophy. people believe it's more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt and they don't know what's going in a person's life or what traumas or wounds. >> the security of this country, that's why this is hard. >> i think that you are doing your best. it does not work for me. how do we deal with that? >> yeah, a lot of times when people think about grace, they have a lot of misunderstanding about it. i think people think it means rolling over or being a dormant or not calling out things that are problematic. when i say that you should look at another person and say they are doing the best they can of what they have, that's going to keep you from going down the road of judgment and dehumanization and all the things that are more harmful to you than the others. >> i think for me what i discovered was using boundaries, i am not going to let the people live, i am going to name what's happening and i am going to look at them and say this is a problem but i am not going to marinate in it which is what i was doing. when i started writing this book or when i got to the point of meeting to write the book, i realized that i was taking on basically everything that was happening around me and basically talking about it all the time and obsessing about it all the time and laying in bed at night thinking about it and all the things i want to say to these people verses actually doing something productive. grace is not something that excuses people's bad behavior. hate is too great a burden to bare. why? who bares the burden? we do. that is survival mechanism. it's not about telling other people -- >> oh, you are not solving the problem, you are helping us survive it. >> exactly. >> jean. >> i can get to point a stewing and marinating. >> yes, you can do it. >> okay, stop stewing and marinating and get out of it. step three, do something about it. >> that's where i want to know where the recipe is. doing something about it when you have people who won't get vaccinated. >> you can write columns of that. >> thank you. >> that's exactly right. >> that's what we do as journalists. >> figure out what your yeses, the minute i go down the judging, i have entangled with this person. i am taking it all in and i am all entangled with them and verses no. i can write a column and talk about it on tv. another person can donate some money or they can volunteer or do a lot of things that's going to help with the situation and not feel miserable. i was miserable all the team. >> okay, i am going to impress you a little bit. this is a tough one. i agree with everything you are saying. i think this book is beautiful and everyone should read it and empathy need to drive your relationships with people especially at thanksgiving and people who may believe that the election is stolen if you don't. and trying to understand where they come from and meet them where they are. absolutely judgment has no place in relationships. what about when you are dealing with people who knows what they are doing. >> that's the hardest. >> i am talking about leaders at capitol hill and vice president mike pence saying january 6th was just any day and another day says something else. >> those are the hardest people and i think that i call grace is a practice and so it's something and not on day one, i would not start with donald trump. it would be like taking on running or running in the marathon. start with your cousin. most people who talked to me are talking about family members or co-workers and that's their day-to-day, those are the people where you can say they're more than this. why do they have this view and who told them this? they're doing the best they can and they are telling the people who tells them these things are not true. we know because we know them. >> we know what they are doing. >> we know that they know is not true. those are the much harder cases and those are the ones that took me a long time to get to a place and again, that's where i really do use boundaries where i just say i am not going to take the bait and go down to crazy town with you. i am going to use my position in society to address it and counteract of what you are doing >> kirsten, good to see you, congratulations on your book. i love this conversation. it's so important of what's going on now. my mom always told me that person who's yelling at you and latching out, there is something going on in his/her life and you need to understand that. it's always frustrating and i could not scream back to the person. what do you say and you began to answer my question here. some of these fundamental things, all of us haves someone or a lot of people maybe even in our lives right now, you talk to them, you love them and respect them and known them for a long time, they're smart people and they tell eh covid is not that big of a deal or january 6th was not that big of a deal. you guys need to relax. some of these core questions do drive a wedge between you, yes, they're about politics in some ways but also they tell you something that maybe you didn't want to know about that person you love. so where do you go with that besides ignoring it completely. how do you begin to understand that person and have that conversation? >> yes, i actually hope i didn't misspeak. i don't think we should ignore it. i think we have to stay engaged and that's the point. this is the how you stay engaged and because i hear from a lot of people, i can't take it anymore and i am not reading the newspaper or reading tv. >> i don't want people to walk away. >> we need to stay engaged and outraged. anger is a great emotion, it tells you something is wrong, the question is what do you do with the anger? do you do something that makes you more angry? how do you learn to have a conversation that actually could be productive and recognizing it's hard to change people's minds but there is social science on how to change people's minds and surprise, surprise, it's not name calling. it's not telling them they are stupid or that they are consuming the wrong media. facts are going to work against you. the minute you start using feedbacks with so somebody and they say where do you get that? they say so you, i got it from fox news and you are thinking are you kidding? they're doing a lot of political canvassing and they call it deep canvassing, basically you share your experience or somebody that you know or you point them to somebody that you know. say they are talking about undocumented immigrants, you know my friends, did you know my friends are undocumented immigrants? you use something that's real and deep canvassing is successful where they have transgender people going outdoor to door and rather than reading the list of why you should protect transgender people, they basically had a conversation and listen impactfully and they say can i share my story? i am actually transgender and here is what it's like for me. they had people changing their minds. they listen to this and what the social science says is people actually think they do trust thaw know what their own experience is. they do trust you know the experience of the people around you. but when you start bombarding people with facts, they will shut down. >> mike barnicle ? >> kristen, as usual i have a stupid question. >> i doubt that. >> you know several years ago, robert putnam at harvard wrote a book -- given of everything on social media and the average person is victimized. people think twitter is an actual country or a power out there. is there anything wrong with surendoring to exhaustion. >> shutdown. >> on social media, how you need to cut back on social media. >> shut it down. >> it's designed to be divisive. that was the first thing i did was gunpoint off of twitter. it's absolutely fine to be exhausted. and so i say for people who i say to go home, i don't have the energy to deal with family or feels unsafe to me or emotionally unsafe for me. is it unsafe or uncomfortable? if your grandma is saying something that's racist and you are like i don't want of that conversation, it's uncomfortable. guess who's going to suffer? it's all the people she's thinking and saying these racist things about. >> it hurts. >> and it hurts her too. we need to be peacemakers and not peace keepers. a peace keeper is like somebody who does not want to get in the middle of it. a peacemaker is somebody that enters into the conflict but they do it with the intention of creating peace and understanding. that's why the chapter on embracing healthy conflicts is important because it teaches you how to have these conversations where both sides can walk away and say that was worthwhile. i may not change my mind but it was worthwhile. there are some people who are called high-conflict who just want to fight with you, you don't have to talk to those people. you can actually just say this is not worth my time. go donate to somebody or volunteer for an organization or if you are a columnist, do something that's going to help. >> hoping to have civil discourse in a sea of insanity or shrill voice at least. as we close, would it be triggering to bring this book and be at the family vacation reading? >> i don't think so. >> you can gift it. >> the new book "saving grace," stay center and learn to coexist with people who drives you nuts. >> kirsten powers, thank you. still ahead, democrats and republicans made a big step on lowering costs of something. we'll talk to senator murphy of what may or may not be in the democrats' social spending plan. the most important voices in those negotiations, senator manchin and congresswoman jayapal will be 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and drugs that are through the roof. what we did was we reached a historic deal and we'll allow for medicare to use its bulk purchasing power to drive down the cost of costs. 20 of the drugs will be purchased through medicare and they'll cut the price of these drugs in half and get 30% or 50% discount. we'll stop price gouching. it will take a chunk of profits away from industry but get some stability to the marketplace. this is a big deal. i expect for it to include in the final bill and i think it will be one of the most popular things we can talk to the american public about. >> and monday morning quarterbacking about some of the stuff is done, the election may have turned out differently. what is it going to take? we have manchin and jayapal coming on later. what is it going to take to get an agreement within the party? >> just think of the new deal with fdr was operating with 2-1 majorities in the united states congress. we have the slimmest of majority and we are attempting to fundamentally change people's lives by lowering costs. there is no surprise this is taking a little wild to get and this is going to happen. it will happen the next couple of weeks. i think it's right had we pass this a couple of weeks ago and had we given the virginia governor candidate a chance to sell this. it's not going to be five points. had he been able to talk about child care cutting by $10,000. >> that would have been good. >> eugene. >> do you think the white house have sold this enough and the president been out there enough and we keep hearing that there is so much many this huge bill that people don't know about this. it's hard to follow because the process has been so messy and slow. it's hard to know what's in or out and they go in and out. do you think the white house has been leaning forward enough on it? >> i do. you have to understand the position that the white house is in, trying to manage a pandemic at the same time trying to sell a domestic agenda. a luxury to sell people and vaccines and making school people are safe and this president has been handed a mess. the tax cut and rejection of the affordable care act and the president is selling an agenda that people like. democrats sometimes get addicted to legislating. this time we got to pass this bill and go out and talk about it every single day. when we do, i think we'll find it's an agenda that people will flock to. >> is the time taking to negotiate the legislation, is it making it any better or making it worse? is the bill getting better? >> i think we all knew ultimately to get something through the senate, we are going to have to sell it for something smaller. the prescription drug piece of this bill is an example, something that gotten better overtime. there was an outcry and outrage. and so over the course of the week and a half, we are able to negotiate with sin sinema and os of this landmark agreement going into medicare and drug prices. there is two sides of the coin here. we could have pushed something through two weeks of the governor's race in virginia. it may not have included production and prescription drug cost. it sometimes taken a little bit of extra time feel better. >> jonathan lemire. >> i want to ask you about something that you care deeply about. ambassadors, only six, president biden's choice while there were 22 during the trump administration. you said your colleague, ted cruz, was acting like a quote, "terrorist," when it comes to this matter. tell us what you meant and why it's so important to get these ambassadors in place. >> what ted cruz is saying if the biden administration does not do what he wants, he's not going to allow any of these ambassadors to proceed and normally qualified ambassadors moving through the process by voice. ted cruz is saying every single one of these ambassadors and secretaries haves to be taken up by the full senate with all the time allowed. this comes a tremendous risk because only five ambassadors the united states are at risk. you know what's happening right now. there are 90,000 russian troops lined up on our border and we are watching to see. we don't have an ambassador trying to keep europe together on our strategy to protect ukraine. we'll continue to protect this. what senator cruz and others are doing are compromising america's security. >> senator murphy, thank you so much for being on with us this morning. we appreciate it. good luck. coming up, exit polling from virginia shows 33% of voters ranked the economy as the most important issue in their vote. it's a trend we are seeing nationwide. as concerns of inflation are dragging down optimism. we'll talk with someone who all knows about business when entrepreneur and co-host of the show "shark tank" when kevin o'leary joins us on the show. we'll be right back. on the show we'll be right back. as i observe investors balance risk and reward, i see one element securing portfolios, time after time. gold. your strategic 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moving on. watch me. move, look, and feel better. ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. as someone who resembles someone else, move, look, and feel better. i appreciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ vo: it's always been true, that each generation has a moment to make sure it's leaving the world a better place for future generations. and right now is our moment. climate change has reached a crisis point. our very way of life is at risk. members of congress you have a chance, right now, to pass a plan that finally takes it on. this isn't just another vote, it's your moment to get it right for them. congress, pass the build back better act. 43 past the hour, a live look at times square in new york city. later this month it says to scale back bond buying. the plan is expected to end stimulus by next june. officials moved up the timeline in case they decide to raise interest rates next year to cool down the economy if inflationary pressure broadens. market reacted positively with stocks turning positive and government bond yields inching higher. inflation has been more rapid and enduring. powell says he expects inflation to keep rising as supply issue continues and start to pull back around the middle of next year. >> joining us now. author and entrepreneur and founder of o'leary financial group, the co-host of "shark tank." if you can put into english what i just explained in terms of what the fed chair did but explain what's going on in the economy as prices going up everywhere and you can't seem to order anything. things are not there. >> yes, we had destruction of supply chain not just domestically but globally. we have been pouring money from a helicopter into the economy since the beginning of the pandemic. all the stimulus programs and relief programs, we now know at least a trillion plus for infrastructure, don't yet know on the social bill. all of these are very, very liquid events, in other words, pouring money into the system gets into the hands of consumers and they start to buy goods and services. here is where it gets complicated. the goods they want are stuck on a ship outside of a port of los angeles, sometimes may whine up to six weeks. that problem had not been solved yet. companies make things like cars, used to rely on parts that were inexpensive in the asian markets can't get them anymore. that goes into the product, it raises the price in there, you have inflation. if you believe the supply chain is going to get repaired, those pressure should come off. my own opinion is half of the inflations coming from supply chain issues. the other half is coming from the fact that consumers are flushed with cash and wants goods and services like they did prepandemic. >> good morning, it's jonathan lemire, walk us through a little bit of a mix signaling o f the economy is showing right now, stock market is mostly good. we are a year and a half into the pandemic. the administration has an aggressive measure to spark growth. where do things stand right now? where do you think they are going? >> well, i am constructive and positive. i have investments in over 34 companies that are private, every sector in america and every geography. we have remarkable situations where the underlying economy is very strong. the fed is saying to itself and they're a tricky situation. their mandate is to watch inflation and they're starting to see it and they don't know how much of it is transitory. you heard that word many times, inflation forces go away and we can stop raising rates but they don't know that yet. they clear that option. the market assumes it's going to happen. i this i the more interesting situation that we don't talk about much. our economy is so productive because of new technologies that accelerated during the pandemic. think of every economy, nike have said they were able to achieve taken six years, they're selling directly to consumers now. they have huge margins on those products. at the end of the day this makes the company far more effective and constructive. what size and what color and what style. the whole american economy gone through the remarkable transformation, very, very efficient and our reliance on using older ways of distribution far less effective has been reduced. that's very proeconomy, that's why you are seeing the markets being so optimistic. new digital america 2.0 is here. >> kevin, despite what you just said, consumers buy director from retailers. there is still an enormous shortage of workers. you see it everywhere you go. there is one thing holding back economy in a number of businesses, do you see it easing in the next year or two or is this something we have to live with? >> it's a great question. there are two forces at play. we paid many people not to work. those programs are just coming off now. september was when some of the checks stopped. companies we are trying to hire workers particularly in restaurants and service industries were fighting against the government. it was a strange program. work for the program and do nothing or work for business. hopefully that's going to stop. that's number one. number two, you may find this statistic rather remarkable. most companies including mine tried to determine last year, last december what number of employees were not going to come back to the office. and we made the assumption along with many other companies in the s&p that would be about 15% of the employees. they used to sit in cubicles, wouldn't come back. now i have the data, at least from my companies, and there are a broad swath, probably 10,000 people included in the supply chains, 55% are not coming back to the office, more than half. not now, not ever. as a result of that, they've moved to places they can stay with their families, take care of elderly parents. they're never coming back to the office. as a result, they won't work inside the cities anymore in their little cubicles at the desk because they've proven they can do it remotely using the technology we already talked about. this has put a lot of pressure on the traditional job markets. the head of my own accounting in my operating company that oversees all of our investments said to me, i grew up on a farm. i'm going back to a farm. i'm going to live on a farm and i'm never coming in the office. if you don't like it, i'm going to work for somebody else. think about that. that's what's going on everywhere. >> i've spoken to some groups of women lately getting out again for know your value and all of them raise their hand when i say who is remote and do you like it. they love it, can get so much done. it frightens me. i feel like women are just going to take on more in the house. this is a huge reality and a conversation we need to talk about more. >> commercial real estate, kevin, is that something you should be short on at this point? >> well, you know, another great question. i actually sold half of our commercial real estate portfolio, not because of the pandemic, because it became too large in terms of our diversification mandates. then when the pandemic started we it continued to sell down commercial real estate because of cap rates, the value of the buildings going down particularly aaa. the law firm and financial services companies are cutting their need of real estate so commercial real estate is in a bit of a funk as we try to figure out -- the owners are optimistic everybody is coming back but that's not the only problem. they were built over 20 years ago where the hazmat systems, the airflow systems, the way they work within a pandemic environment, is not good enough for people to want to go back in the building. the air circulation isn't filtered, the wash rooms aren't configured for a pandemic or the flu. billions of dollars have to go back and change that and that puts a lot of pressure on it. i want to say one thing about women in our economy, you may find this interesting, over the last seven years the majority of my returns and my private companies have come from companies run by women. particularly during the pandemic. they were remarkable in mitigating risk. and that old adage, if you want something done, give it to a busy mother, applies perfectly to business in america. i invest in women-led companies because they return my money back faster. >> i can totally see how that happens. do you know what kevin's nickname is on "mr. shark tank"? >> i do not. >> mr. wonderful. and now i know why. kevin has a lifestyle platform called shop. mr. wonderful, tell us about it. >> during the pandemic, i'm in the wine business. people didn't want to go out and buy wine in stores. a case weighs 39 pounds. they were allowed to be shipped directly and as a result the demand for different kinds of wines went up and up and up. wine is a wonderful thing for people to enjoy and so shop mr. wonderful is a brand-new site that expands my wine offerings. people trust me and i choose it, almost like a wine club. you can order a case, a bottle, six months worth of wine, and it's doing very, very well, and i'm very proud of it. i just love wine. i love to grow and make. my wife and i do it together. it's a wonderful family business. has it ever grown. >> kevin o'leary, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. and still ahead, you may have heard his name pop up once or twice in the debate over infrastructure. senator joe manchin, mm-hmm. he joins our conversation live at the top of the hour. 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>> no, we should have gotten something done. we had a china compete bill we passed with about 90 democrats and republicans from the senate. it's been sitting in the house for quite some time. that's $250 billion, a tremendous amount of research and technology to compete with china. we have a $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill which for eight to ten years will rebuild america. we let that go on for 30 years and haven't done a thing, mika. we should have got those done. to have these bills held hostage, we need to work in good faith. i don't know why we couldn't pass or the house members couldn't pass the two bills they've been sitting on and let's get a cbo score. i think what the election showed us, mika, was basically people are concerned, concerned about inflation, concerned about the debt. we don't talk about it, but they are concerned, i can tell you back home in west virginia gas prices are enormous am people are having a hard time driving to work and paying $20 to $30 more to fill up. they're going to the grocery stores and getting 30% less. they're about to face a very bad winter. we are told much higher prices. yes, i think we should be up front, honest and transparent and do what we can afford to do. >> so you've just described the reality surrounding exactly why these bills need to get through. i have a check list here, i'll write it down. what is it going to take to get to yes? >> well, to get to yes is first to find out what the real cost is, what we're talking about. we're using ten years of revenue to basically supply one or two or five or six years of services. and that's not the true cost. the true cost is ten years to ten years. if you have ten years of revenue, then you would think that we could put a program in place that would last ten years, too. this all needs to come forward and we need a cbo score, the congressional budget office, put a score to this. the rush to this, and i've said this long before, i truly believe we need to slow down. i truly believe we need to wait and see if inflation is transitory. see how much worse it may get. hopefully it doesn't. people are saying both. i'm willing to work through it. my colleagues all know where i stand. i've tried to be transparent and when we have such a divided congress in the house and the senate and i think the votes in virginia show how divided we are, mika. >> you talk about cost and i know there are different sets of time that could be debated, but you agreed to $1.75 trillion, yes? >> yes. the president and i came to an agreement on $1.75. i was working on it and the president was working hard and we had good conversations, good dialogue and good negotiations. that's what it's all about. >> okay, so what needs to be in there or what needs to be out of there? >> let me tell you the things we can agree on that we have agreed on. child care. we agreed on child care. we agreed on pre-k 3 and 4. we agree on climate bill that basically uses technology not just eliminating certain fuels but technology because the world is using more fossils than before. if we don't find a breakthrough in technology the world will get worse because the pollution is coming from asia and china. china has 3,000 coal fired plants and we have 500. many will make you believe the 500 are polluting the whole world. they're not being accurate. >> there are reports the house is putting back in paid family leave. is that a deal breaker for you. >> there are so many things they're throwing in because of their constituents. they have a caucus over there and should work the bill as they see fit. i don't begrudge anybody for doing that but they shouldn't begrudge me. i believe in family leave. i believe people should have that opportunity. i've seen states that have done it in america. i've seen countries around the world that have done it. can't we find a better position for this and do this in a bipartisan way that works? we're talking about unpaid family leave now that will add to the debt we already have at $29 tril dwron. trillion. i would love to expand medicare if we had our financial house in order. but when you have a report from the cbo that you're going to be insolvent in medicare by 2026 and you want me to add more on to it that will make it insolvent quicker, i have people in west virginia, mika, that's their life line. their life line is social security and medicare. i'm doing everything i can to protect it and get those on solid financial ground and then we can expand. >> willie? >> it's willie geist. >> how are you doing? >> i'm doing well, thank you. speaker pelosi yesterday again said this is going to be in the bill, paid family leave will had be in the bill. the proposal we're hearing is for four weeks. president biden in 2020 made this a central promise of his campaign, we're going to get paid family and medical leave. so can you explain what you mean when you talk about this? are you saying it's important but it should be its own piece of legislation or are you saying that you object to it altogether? >> no, i do not object to it at all as far as the concept of family leave. people should be able to have family need as they need it but we should be paying into it as we do for social security, employer/employee participation. we can work a bill out in the regular process that doesn't put a burden on taxpayers and also more debt. because when you start the programs, you never stop them, you just don't. anytime we do something through reconciliation it's done only by one party. the senate was not designed to work off partisan politics but bipartisan politics. to me that's the most stable country in the world. we don't flip back and forth every time somebody changes power. whams now when you do reconciliation, the next time there's a power switch, the republicans would have control, they're going to switch back the same as we're switching the tax coat. there wasn't a democrat that voted in favor of the 2017 tax cuts we thought were weighted to the high-end earners. let's fix that. we're talking about everything but how we fix, truly, the tax corrode that gives and puts our country back on the trajectory we can be responsible with our debt and manage our debt. that's all i've been saying. >> as you know many of your colleagues have said joe manchin holds all the cards here. whatever he determines to do determines the fate of this package that could be defining for president biden. do you see a possibility this $1.75 trillion proposed package, the build back better package, does not pass, that it goes away altogether? >> i don't know. you don't want to look at anything. i've always tried to sit down and work out a compromise. i've always -- that's my modus operation. i wanted people to come together, find a common solution and move forward so we could all go out and speak about it. the best politics is good government. you do something people need and really want and do it together, it will last. when you do what we're trying to do where there's so much disconcern, it makes it more difficult to have anything lasting to it. it's about the united states not the divided states and we seem to be pushing ourselves further and further apart. all the things we're talking about in the reconciliation bill have pretty much been covered in the american rescue plan and that will go on for 2022. the urgency today to do something quickly before we know what it will cost and the ramifications. there's only 50 of us, these things done in congress before us were done with major majorities and whoever was in control. in my state i represent the constituents the best i can. and right now i'm doing the best i can by representing them and also looking at what's best for our country and what we can afford. >> the american people watching say this negotiation has been going on for months and months and months with not much movement. >> it's been moving, willie. >> -- it may not happen and they're not going to get your vote and this package may not pass? >> if we're going to be aspirational and throw something up there i can't explain, maybe we should work a little bit harder. we are the most deliberative body. we're not even communicating. we're stating things on the news as we're doing right now and all this and that. it's the house's bill right now. we'll see what the house does. hopefully they're close to it but i can tell you the one bill that would make a difference or two bills showing we could work and function the way congress is supposed to is the infrastructure bill and the china compete bill. we're not talking about what china is doing as we continue to communicate or lack of communications and going back and forth what they're doing. they have their heads down and are going right ahead with building up military might is unbelievable. their economic engine. they have 3,000 coal fire plants belching out all the power. just beat the living crap out of the united states. >> senator manchin, mika again, i'm hearing you say the communicating isn't happening. what is this dialogue that should be happening? who should it be happening with? >> well, right now since we're in reconciliation, just the democrats should be talking, and we are talking with each other. the bottom line is we're wait to go see what the house does. the house has been holding this. the house has it in their purview right now and they wouldn't let the vote on the infrastructure bill -- and, mika, the president went there twice this is unprecedented. the president goes before the democratic caucus in the house and basically explains how important. but i've never seen absolutely two bills tied together. they either go up or go down. i've seen bills held hostage. all we're asking for is give us a vote on the infrastructure bill and then work the reconciliation bill, make sure you get a score on it, a cbo score, and people can vote. i'm sure my colleagues would love to have that. >> senator manchin, good morning. it's jonathan lemire. two questions for you. one is a quick one. there had been reports that you might be switching parties, i want to get your answer on that. secondly, you're looking for the house to pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill. if they were to do so and then send the better act through as well, the reconciliation package, is there a scenario where if something is in it you do not like that you would be willing and comfortable to be the one democratic vote that stands in opposition to it? >> i do not intend to change on becoming republican. i am a conservative democrat from west virginia and i love my democrats and republicans both in west virginia because i've worked very closely with them. i am not a washington democrat. i'm liberal. i'm socially compassionate, jonathan. the bottom line is i feel comfortable where i am. if party changing identification changes a person, then they're in it for the rong reason. if they think they can just change a party and identification from a d to an r or an r to a d and that makes them a new person, they're in it for the wrong reason. i will work with my republican friends and colleagues because they all are my friends, and i will work with my colleagues and democratic caucus because i consider them my friends. if you really want to see a little bit of west virginia, look at southwest virginia and look at the returns in the virginia governor's race. youngkin won by 84%. that's my entire state. southwest west virginia is the same as all of west virginia. no different than president biden who understand this is process better than anybody who has ever sat in the presidential seat in my lifetime i can reflect back on except i guess lbj. the bottom line is president biden representing delaware, a small state like my beautiful little state of west virginia, we know our people. and we have an obligation to go back and explanation to explain what we're doing and how we're doing it. on that, that's where we are. >> gene robinson? >> senator, you've talked about legislation being held hostage in the house. i'm not sure that really endears you to the house members. >> eugene, it's honest. >> will you commit then, because you've been clear about your parameters, will you commit to voting for legislation that's within your parameters? >> eugene, it won't end because they want me to write in blood i'll be for this, this, and this and i'm not and they know it. they know it. i've been very clear. the only thing i can be is who i am. i'm not going to lie. your word is the only thing you have left in congress that hopefully should mean something but the character that you are as a person. i told you -- i went through some things and i think we can work on other things. reconciliation was designed to work about the finances of our country. and bob bird knew this would happen. knew that they would try to do everything humanly possible without the other side participation. the house was designed to work that way. we don't expect to get anything that's cooled off and tempered, if you will. that's our job. i respect nancy pelosi. i like her very much and we have very good dialogue. we just have to keep talking. i've talked to congresswoman jayapal and we've had great conversations. they represent different parts of the country so we have different philosophical beliefs. if all this stuff that you want that we might not get in the bill, then use that as your campaign strategy next year when everybody runs for 2022 and you'll have more people that are progressive. you won't need people who are not as progressive as you. go use that and use it to your best ability to get more people and do all the things coming in 2023. i'm fine. i'm hoping my vote will not make a difference after 2022. if it does right now, i've got to do the thing that i was sent here to do, represent the people of west virginia and look out for the united states of america which i think we could do and find common ground. >> mike barnicle? >> senator manchin, i've been listening to you quite carefully and you've listed a lot of things you're in favor of like extended medicaid benefits, like more pre-k, more child care. so my question -- >> pretty good, isn't it, mike? >> i followed your career, you rebbe a state filled with some of the hardest working people in america. a lot of old people. >> absolutely. >> a lot of poor people. a lot of veterans. a lot of people who live on the edge and know the meaning of the urgency of now. so my question to you is these extended delays over this program that we're talking about that is filled with so many items that could help people from cabin creek or farmington or wherever, could help them tomorrow, what do you say to them in terms of a country that spends so much money on aircraft carriers and fighter jets and that we won't spend immediately to help you now? >> mike, first of all, you left out a couple things because the people in west virginia, the people i know and represent and i love so dearly, have common sense. they understand the value of the dollar. they've worked hard all their life. they live within their means. they don't spend beyond their means. these are the people i represent, i know them well. they would love to have a bigger house or nicer car, be able to go on vacations. but they live within their means. i was governor and the main thing i said we will get our financial house in order, and we did through the most difficult times when the whole wall street crashed, we were still in very good shape and we didn't lose services to people. as a matter of fact, we expanded services. people don't understand that in washington because they basically have a printing press. we're still buying $120 billion of our debt every month. jerome powell said we're going to start reducing that, down to 15, down to this. if we basically, and inflation continues as it is right now and basically the feds have to raise their rates to curtail this inflation and interest rates up 2% or 3% and you're right at $30 trillion of debt, that's $600 billion of new expenses we have that will destroy everything that we're doing. that's what i'm concerned about, mike. >> joe, before we go, is there anything progressives, especially in congress, could offer that would help speed up this process to get something to the american people? >> mika, we have things going. let me just explain, there's been over $5.5 trillion gone out the door since last march. >> i understand that. >> do you understand world war ii and the marshall plan rebuilding europe was only $4.7 trillion to give you a picture -- we saved the world, rebuilt europe. we're way over five. i have no idea. no idea what as it to be done right now. >> why can't it be done right now? >> don't you want to nope what the finances is, what the cost is going to be? >> so you want a clearer sense of costs and the finances just not $1.75 trillion but more details behind all of that? what you're looking for is accounting? >> the good things we're doing we want to sustain it. if people like it, we'll push it forward. we have three years or five years of a program. that's half. it means it will be $3.5 trillion or $3.9 trillion. how are we going to pay for that without adding to more debt. don't you think that should be evaluated? and we're not doing it. >> okay. we have heard from senator joe manchin. thank you, joe. very good to see you. thank you for coming on. >> good to see you. and just ahead, the congresswoman the senator just mentioned, progressive caucus chair, congresswoman pramila jayapal will be our guest. willie? >> we'll let the congresswoman pull up a chair next to you, mika. joining us now the surgeon general of the united states, dr. vivek murthy. it's great to have you with us this morning. i want to ask you about the fda and the cdc giving its clearance on this vaccine for children aged 5 to 11. a chorus of cheers for parents and children across the country. there are, though, many who are a little hesitant. not people who are anti-vaccine, people who have had it themselves, but worried about giving it to their children. what can you tell them? what do we know about this dose of the vaccine? >> willie, this is a very exciting moment for parents like me with kids under 12 who have been waiting for a vaccine to protect them and now 28 million children in this age group now have an tune to be protected. so this is a landmark moment. what i say to parns out there is, number one, look, if you have questions, it's absolutely your right to get those questions answered. what i want people to know, though, this recent decision by the fda and the cdc was really based on a rigorous pursuit of two key questions. one, is this vaccine effective for our kids and, number two, is it safe for our kids? and on both counts, what the cdc and fda found it is both safe and effective and why they ultimately recommended it. the second thing i would ask parents to keep in mind is that covid has not been a harmless virus to our children. sure, our kids do better than older adults do. we've had hundreds of kids who have lost their lives to covid, thousands hospitalized who have gotten multisystem inflammatory syndrome, that affects multiple organ systems including the heart and many are now struggling with long covid systems. i'm planning to take my 5-year-old to get vaccinated as soon as possible. >> so all of us who have had the vaccine are familiar with some of the side ex, a couple days of feeling sluggish or flu like but this dose is one-third of the dose given to people 12 years old and up. so what can you tell us about the side effects of this vaccine? >> willie, this vaccine was tailored for kids. the dose is lowered, about a third of the adult vaccine, and the trials in which the vaccine was tested were specifically designed for kids. the side effects that they saw in the trial were similar to what adults experienced, soreness in the arm, pain and swelling in the arm, fatigue, headache. occasionally a fever. these lasted for a day or two and then they disappeared. and what their children were left with was protection against covid-19 and good protection, 90% efficacy rate we've seen in clinical trials. that's pretty good as far as vaccines go. and most importantly there were no serious side effects that we're seeing in several thousand children involved in the trial. all of this is reassuring. it's good news. starting tomorrow parents can go to vaccines.gov, find a place to make an appointment, get their child vaccinated. parents have been waiting for this moment for a long time. >> it is truly great news. and dr. murthy, i'm curious what you think the impact of this may be now if the country can get enough of children aged 5 to 11 in addition to 12 and up. what does it mean for schools, for the year 2022 where the country in total, not just kids, may be in terms of this pandemic? >> willie this is a big step forward for us. we know more people who are vaccinated against covid-19, the quicker we get to the end of this pandemic, now that 28 million more people have been brought in under the umbrella, if you will, who are now eligible to be vaccinated, that means we can get there even faster. this is about our health, the health of our children, but it's about getting our kids' lives back. in addition to the terrible results we've seen in terms of death and hospitalization among kids we've seen many children who have had school disrupted, haven't been able to participate in youth sports as much, who have not been able to see their families, friends, go to sleepovers and birthday parties. getting vaccinated gives us a chance. we hit a sobering and tragic landmark, 750,000 americans whose lives have been lost to this pandemic, it's not just a number. there are people's stories and lives behind those numbers. one of them was my uncle who spent decades in ohio as a teacher investing in young people, making sure the next generation was strong and knowledgeable and healthy and well and he, sadly, lost his life to covid-19. each of these individuals we lost represents somebody we can't get back, somebody who gave so much to their community and their family in various ways. we have to use that as motivation and inspiration to ensure not a day goes by when we don't make every effort possible to get people vaccinated because that is our pathway out that have pandemic. it's how we're going to save more lives going forward. >> i'm so sorry about your uncle and sadly, as you say, it's a story all too familiar to many families across this country. some good news with this vaccine available for kids. you can go online, find appointments are open. thank you for being with us again this morning. we appreciate it. and we will be right back on "morning joe" with the chair of the progressive caucus, congresswoman pramila jayapal and her response from what we've heard from joe manchin. you're watching "morning joe." 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(jackie) talk to your doctor about austedo...it's time to treat td. td is not ok. visit askforaustedo.com. vo: it's always been true, that each generation has a moment to make sure it's leaving the world a better place for future generations. and right now is our moment. climate change has reached a crisis point. our very way of life is at risk. members of congress you have a chance, right now, to pass a plan that finally takes it on. this isn't just another vote, it's your moment to get it right for them. congress, pass the build back better act. as someone who resembles someone else, i appreciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ every day in business brings something new. so get the flexibility of the new mobile service designed for your small business. introducing comcast business mobile. you get the most reliable network with nationwide 5g included. and you can get unlimited data for just $30 per line per month when you get four lines or mix and match data options. available now for comcast business internet customers with no line-activation fees or term contract required. see if you can save by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. you've talked about legislation being held hostage in the house. i'm not sure that really endears you to the house members. >> it's -- eugene, it's honest. >> well, will you commit, then, because you have been pretty clear about your parameters for the build back better legislation, will you commit to vote are for legislation that's within your parameters if that would end whatever you call the hostage staging in the house? >> eugene, it won't end because they want me to write in blood i'll be for this, this, this and this and i'm not and they know it. they know it. i've been very clear. >> okay. that was joe manchin on our show just a few moment ago with eugene joining us now, chair of the progressive caucus and senior whip of the democratic caucus, congresswoman pramila jayapal of washington state. first of all, he wants to understand a full accounting of everything, the size, the scope, the cost and wants to take the time to do that. what's wrong with that? what's your response to what the senator said? >> mika, it's great to see you and be in person. look, he actually negotiated this deal with the white house. it was to his parameters. he will get a full congressional budget office score before the legislation goes to the parliamentarian. that will happen. and we know that there's more than enough money because there are revenue raisers that have already been scored. >> you're giving him a framework of what he expects? is there any possibility you're moving the goal post, adding in things, adding things back in? >> i think the speaker announced she was adding in paid leave, something senator manchin has not agreed to, look, i think that when this goes to -- when we pass it in the house it will go to a parliamentarian scrub and things will be taken out if they don't meet the parliamentary procedures and rules. >> okay, but you know he won't accept that. >> that was the speaker's decision because i think millions of women across the country are outraged that one man would say we're not going to do paid leave. i understand that piece is there but it's been negotiated with the senator and i've been trying -- look, he's a good man. we've had many meetings. i've been trying not to point fingers. we're going to trust the president that he will get 51 votes. >> hold the phone, gene robinson. here is what former adviser to president obama, david axelrod, said yesterday about lessons from tuesday's virginia election. >> independents broke nine points in favor of youngkin and that proved to be devastating. remember that joe biden, i think, won independents by 18 points ten years ago. so that is a real concern for democrats. one of the questions i have is if you're a democrat sitting on capitol hill and you're from one of these swing districts in suburban areas, are you rethinking your vote on the reconciliation package? are you thinking maybe it's best if we weren't doing it? if i was sitting in the white house, in the leadership, i would be worried about that, trying to firm these people up. >> what do you say? >> i say to firm them up is give paid leave so women pushed out can get back to work. give them universal child care and pre-k. >> some of that is in there and some of what you're saying, while i agree with it as a woman in america wholeheartedly, you're saying things that aren't going to get us to go. >> paid leave i will set aside because we endorse the framework as the white house announced it, as the president announced it, and we said we will go with this framework and the speaker decided to put paid leave in. we fully support it but that's a weiss we have to work through. everything else has been negotiated. >> okay. >> everybody is talking about the politics of this. and i'm curious your reaction to the realities of it, the aspiration of it. isn't there an argument that representatives of congress, should do what is best for the american people and then worry about the politics later? why shouldn't they just do what they think is best? >> you're preaching to the choir here. i think people are frustrated because we passed minimum wage in february in the house. it still hasn't passed in the senate. we passed the for the people act for voting rights, that was with a bill redrawn and redrafted by senator joe manchin and still didn't get the votes. there is still the filibuster. i don't think a 12-point swing in a state in this election is about one bill. i think if we have delivered majorities to the democratic party and the house, the senate and the white house, they have to get together and figure out how to get this done. that's why they have been compromising over and over again because we want to get transformational programs. we trust the president but we want both bills to pass to deliver these results to the american people. >> willie? >> congresswoman jayapal, good morning. it's willie geist. congresswoman spam berger watched what happened and she said yesterday we did not elect joe biden to be fdr. we elected him to get rid of donald trump and stop the chaos and the focus should be on inflation, supply chain problems, gas prices, things that are affecting people right now. there is a criticism even within your own party from some moderates this bill is just too big, that it's a catch-all that it tries to solve all the world's problems in one piece of legislation. so what do you say to people like congresswoman spanberger? >> i would say this is the agenda the president ran on and we all ran on that delivered us the house, the senate and the white house. there's nothing new that's being brought in from the outside this is what we ran on. the reality is i think people are worried about costs. the way to address that, because of the supply chain problems, because there are cost increases and it's going to take some time to come out of the worst pandemic we've ever had in this country we should lower costs, and we can do that with the built back better agenda. we are going to provide universal child care and pre-k. that is a massive cost. prescription drug costs. that is a huge cost for families across this countries. we will lower the cost of prescription drugs. this is the way to address the cost concerns that average families, poor families and working families across this country have, that we need to listen to and need to respond to. >> what's the dialogue that needs to be happening between you and other democrats? whether it be the house or the senate what is missing? we do have joe manchin saying what's the rush? let's get it right. we just spent so much money post-pandemic and want to be careful. he has a number. he's agreed upon a number. so it is -- isn't it a matter of dialogue to getting this done and who is it with? >> we're going to pass it in the house, we'll pass both bills in the house. it was 96% agreed and there were 4% we needed to get onboard. now i believe we have the votes to get these two bills through the house and then push it over to the senate. it's 99% now and one person and hope flip the senator will come onboard. i do trust the president, that he's had these discussions. president biden has been leading us through the most difficult time in our country's history including a near coup attempt on january 6 and people who still believe president biden is not the legitimately elected president. let's just do what we can to emerge. i have faith in democracy, faith in the president, and faith in our ability to deliver both bills out of the house and that the senate will get 51 votes there. >> chair of the progressive caucus, congresswoman jayapal, thank you for being on the show this morning. and nice, in person. up next from actor to white house aide to author, kal penn joins us with his latest project. keep it right here on "morning joe." you get more with aarp medicare advantage plans from unitedhealthcare. like $0 copays on tier 1 and tier 2 prescription drugs. ♪ wow! ♪ ♪ uh-huh. ♪ $0 copays on primary care visits. ♪ wow! ♪ ♪ uh-huh. ♪ and with unitedhealthcare, you get access to medicare advantage's largest provider network. ♪ wow! ♪ ♪ uh-huh. ♪ most plans even have a $0 premium. so go ahead. take advantage now. ♪ wow! ♪ bogeys on your six, limu. so go ahead. take advantage now. they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ knowing where you came from, it gives you a sense of “this is who i am”. oh my goodness... wow, look at all those! you get hungry for more and then you're just like, “wow, i'm learning about my family.” yeah, yep. which one, what'd you find? 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>> well, thank you for having me. look, you're absolutely right. i am the son of immigrants like so many people who we know and love, and my parents, i write about this in the book. my dad moved here with $12 in his pocket and the opportunity to pursue a graduate degree in engineering. obviously their version of the american dream was not for me to smoke fake weed with a fake president, but i'm so glad i had those opportunities. and so in putting the book together i wanted the reader to feel like we were having a beer together and i was taking them through that crazy journey of, of course, my parents' and grandparents' experiences. they marched with ghandi to me working at the white house. >> what was that leap for you? you grew up in new jersey, like i did. what was that leap into acting from parents who probably didn't see that, as you say, as part of the plan when they came to this country? how did you get into acting? >> you know, i loved performing from the time i was a kid, and this one story in particular that i think is in chapter two, i was the tin man in my eighth grade production 8th grade production of "the wiz," you're welcome, and as the tin man, i don't know where you went to middle school, but where i went, being a drama kid was not cool. and so the soccer players would tell us that every day and by 2021 standards, it was bullying, there's no other word for it, but back in the day, that was just called middle school, and i was in the zone in this play, and there's a line after the wiz gives the tin man his heart where you're supposed to point to the audience and say, all you fine ladies,watch out. and for some reason, i did this big pelvic thrust and the girls go wild, the crowd loves it, the soccer plays said, that was really funny. why didn't you tell us that's what you were doing? and i thought, is this some sort of a magic of theater that comedy can bring people together when they might be otherwise opposed? that was the first start of the acting bug for me. >> kal, good morning. jonathan lemire, congrats on the book and an interview had some news for a lot of people. you come out as gay in the story and you also really are engaged to be married so congratulations on that as well. why now? why in this venue? how did you choose to make this decision known? >> sure. thank you for asking that. i'm excited for that chapter. that's chapter 18, i think, in the book, and when i was putting all the stories together, i thought, my partner, josh, we've been together for 11 years, i thought i kind of want to tell the story about how we met because it's so ridiculous. he came over to my apartment when i was working in d.c., comes over on sunday for what was supposed to be an hour of tv watching. he shows up with an 18 pack of coors light and puts on my tv and puts it on a nascar race. i naught, is this obviously isn't going to work out. he's going to leave in 20 minutes and next thing you know, i'm sucked into this world of auto racing and we're bonding off this because of the shared experience of camping, so as the son of immigrants, we never had a lot of money, a lot of our family vacations were to campgrounds in the northeast. josh grew up in mississippi and his family vacations oftentimes were to campgrounds to see nascar races so there was this unlikely bond. the thing that you should know about him, they are not fans of the limelight, so for as long as i can remember, i've had this balance of mom and dad and now the last 11 years, josh, they come to premiers, come and meet my friends but they've got this dance they do where they exit the car, go through side entrance, grab the popcorn and the drinks and they're like, you can do as many interviews as you want but we do not like cameras so i was so excited to share their stories too but i wanted to do it in a way that was respectful and i'm so glad i had the chance to. >> you write beautifully about that and by the way, the 18-pack of silver bullets, that's an aggressive opening move. >> dude, so aggressive. >> but it worked out. >> it did. >> mike is here with a question for you. >> kal, i'm so happy to hear about your relationship with josh and it's a validation of your insight and your common sense because i've seen pictures of josh and he's wearing a boston red sox hat. tell me about that. how has this happened? this is wonderful news. >> hey, this is where it got me looking the other way. i was a kid when the mets won the series in '86. then i came to california and just sort of was the -- a baseball nomad but he's got very strong feelings about the sox. i got to let him have that. >> great stuff. >> all right. the new book is "you can't be serious". kal penn, thank you so much for being on this morning. great book and so generous to share so much of yourself and your family with us. we really appreciate it. it is time now for final thoughts and i've got you in my sights here. i'm still spinning over the conversation between the one we had with joe manchin and then pramila jayapal, and i can sympathize with both but it seems to me there's a deal to be made. >> yeah. i think this deal has been there to be made and so i feel like, yeah, we've been spinning on this cycle for a while, haven't we? and so, we had joe manchin, who sounded reasonable. we had pramila jayapal, who certainly sounded reasonable, and so, what if they had actually said those things to each other and then, you know, passed the legislation? and so that's what i think is frustrating. >> he does seem like he does not want it to happen quickly. >> exactly. >> he used the words "slow down" a lot. >> he very clearly has slowed it down, has wanted to slow it down, but saying things like, you know, we have to have a score on it, well, there has to be a score on it, in fact, a congressional budget office score. >> they'll get that. >> before it goes to the parliamentarian in the senate who says whether or not it can go through reconciliation in the first place. so, there will be a score. we will know exactly how much it costs, and so a lot of his objections, i don't know how real they were, you know? the hurdles that we got to jump over. >> i don't envision a dinner cruise on joe manchin's boat with pramila jayapal any time soon but maybe. >> congresswoman jayapal, and she's been this way throughout this process, has been incredibly disciplined. a lot of people in her caucus have called joe manchin a lot of names. she'll never go that way because she's serious about making a deal. jonathan lemire, if you listen to joe manchin, he wants to play this out. there's a bunch in there, including paid family leave, which is core not only to speaker pelosi and progressives but to joe biden. it was one of his campaign promises. joe manchin doesn't appear to be interested in that as part of this deal anyway. what more can the white house do to move the meter here? >> yeah, they are trying to get this moving on the tracks, willie, but it is still -- we're not there yet. it's very clear from senator manchin. he is not going to vote for paid family leave and i think you're right about congresswoman jayapal being so disciplined but one thing that really struck me is she says that she, quote, trusts president biden to make a deal with joe manchin. she has never said she trusts senator joe manchin. so, i think that there is still a divide there that is not yet bridged. >> okay. we'll be watching, and that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage after a quick, final break. ♪♪ there's a different way to treat hiv. it's once-monthly injectable cabenuva. cabenuva is the only once-a-month, complete hiv treatment for adults who are undetectable. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by a healthcare provider once a month. hiv pills aren't on my mind. i love being able to pick up and go. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions post-injection reactions, liver problems,...and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver problems or mental health concerns, and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection site reactions, fever, and tiredness. if you switch to cabenuva, attend all treatment appointments. with once-a-month cabenuva, i'm good to go. ask your doctor about once-monthly cabenuva. with once-a-month cabenuva, i'm good to go. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ vo: it's always been true, that each generation has a moment to make sure it's leaving the world a better place for future generations. and right now is our moment. climate change has reached a crisis point. our very way of life is at risk. members of congress you have a chance, right now, to pass a plan that finally takes it on. this isn't just another vote, it's your moment to get it right for them. congress, pass the build back better act. as someone who resembles someone else, i appreciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ♪♪ hey there, i'm stephanie ruhle live at msnbc heat quarters here in new york city. it is thursday, november 4th. we have got a lot to get to. so, let's get to the news and let's get smarter. the governor's race in new jersey was a stunner, far closer than anyone expected. but the results are finally in. overnight, nbc news called the race for incumbent democratic governor phil murphy. the gap between murphy and republican jack ciattarelli, less than 1.5%. the win is good news for

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Transcripts For MSNBC Morning Joe 20240709 : Comparemela.com

Transcripts For MSNBC Morning Joe 20240709

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thursday morning "morning joe" starts right now. >> have we beaten the virus? >> to beat the virus, we have to beat donald trump. >> beaten we did. >> the winner of michigan is biden. >> we are winning wisconsin. >> biden is the winner in wisconsin. ? the state of georgia, joe biden is the apparent winner. we are winning pennsylvania by a tremendous amount. >> joe biden won pennsylvania. >> as long as he still has arizona, the presidency is in the bag. >> fox news decision is calling arizona for joe biden. what did the fox say? ♪♪ ♪ ♪ ding, do, ding, ding ♪ >> it's time to protest. it's time to get your maga on. >> somebody is covering it up. joe biden is covering up the election, he's stealing it. >> where were we? what was the last question >> now, let's head to the fall season. landscaping company. all the networks, wow. keep it down. keep it down rudy. they're trying - >> it's funny but that actually happened. >> good morning and welcome to "morning joe," it's thursday, november 4th, joe is off this morning along with willie and me. we have our editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson, peter baker and host of "way too early," jonathan lemire and i am just noticing with the guys here in d.c. that the christmas comes around, it's around christmas cups at starbucks, willie. >> a little past pumpkin spice and straight into the peppermint. >> it's way too early. >> it's way too early but you know what, we have a lot to get to this morning. democrats are trying to figure out whether or not to pass the infrastructure and social spending agenda hurt them in tuesday's virginia governor race. this morning we have the perfect two guests to talk about this. coming up we'll be talking about this with senator joe manchin. one of the key democrats pumping the brakes in the reconciliation bill. we'll speak with the chair of the house progressive caucus, jayapal, who says both bills need to be passed. we'll hear from the president and get his take on this question. it's interesting, i mean really weird actually. i don't get it. after hearing from republicans about whied spread voter fraud and this sort of crisis of rigged elections. do you remember all that? >> yeah. >> our country was braced for you know for horrible futures because of this election. >> who knows? >> but apparently they forgot how to play dirty into tuesday's elections. we'll look at real reasons why republicans were silent of the issues of election fraud. just nothing about it, willie. >> eerily silent for people concerned of election integrity. >> we'll speak to dr. vivek murthy as the cdc issued pfizer shots for children kids from 5 to 11. >> i can be back to normal in my classroom. >> reporter: with doses arriving by the hour, hospitals and clinics wise are full of vaccination. at children's national hospital, the eight-year-old with type one diabetes was among the first at risk kid to get the shot with therapy dog by his side. >> done! >> reporter: since day one, his parents limited his exposure to other kids. >> it has been 600 long days and things can start to come back to normal. >> reporter: in houston, texas children's hospital working through 36,000 appointments to vaccinate 5 to 11 years old. >> it kind of hurt. >> reporter: cameron emanuel. >> our whole family has been fully vaccinated. she was the last one had not been. >> reporter: a recent study found most parents won't get their kids vaccinated. many concerned of unknown side effects. >> i let them get vaccinated for all other things but this -- i just don't trust. >> reporter: the cdc director insisted this vaccine is among the most thoroughly reviewed ever. >> we have thoroughly reviewed all of the available safety and efficacy data before recommending this vaccine for your child. >> back in washington, how do you feel? >> half way vaccinated. >> reporter: eight-year-old carter already looking forward to his second dose. >> way to go, carter. that's nbc's tom costello reporting. this is the last year or so has been so politicizepoliticized, l families living in fear, the father said 600 days for their child and they're worried any time their kids go to school or to a dance or whatever, they could get sick and now the miracle, thanks to a couple of administrations, pharmaceuticals and doctors and scientists of shots going into the arms of young kids. >> it's amazing. this will become politicized, we'll take a look at some leaders who are not on the side of getting kids vaccinated if you can imagine. that could lead to problems because the vaccine is now available, that miracle is available. parents need to step up and bring their kids in just like they get vaccinated for other things to go to school. >> when we left the air yesterday morning, new jersey race for governor was still too close to call and it was not until yesterday evening when nbc news was able to project incumbent phil murphy as the winner with 88% of the vote in. nbc gives murphy a 50.3 to 48.9 lead. murphy spoke to supporters after the much closer than expected race. >> you know we just had the most new jersey experience. i was on my way some place and it took us longer to get there than we planned. if you want to know what the future looks like, come to new jersey. >> if you want to understand where america is heading, look to new jersey. >> he now becomes the second new jersey democrat to win the seventh term governor. it took a little longer to get there but it's painful. the process, virginia and new jersey, this should have been easier? >> well, you know, if history is a guide, for example, should have been that easy. traditionally what has happened the year after winning the white house and the party loses virginia and can have a rough time in new jersey as well. so murphy won. does it go well for democrats in the midterm? not particularly though, it does not. >> we'll be looking into whether or not the passing of anything could have helped. peter baker, what about trump's hora over the virginia election. >> this is really interesting. there are two lessons when i think of trump when it comes to virginia. one democrat who runs a campaign just about trump don't have a winning strategy, right? that was terry mcauliffe's strategy, youngkin is another trump and it didn't sell when trump was not on the ballot. having said that, trump would like to say, hey, this is good news for me. virginia is perfectly running for republicans, just fot for him. they voted ten points more for youngkin than trump. why? they rejected voting for trump and excited to come out a republican, a republican who's not as often the deep end as the trump's style. he tried to navigate this path where he was not too trumpian. >> he did a good job at that. >> we are talking about the political implications of this race. it will be interesting to see how youngkin is as a governor, and followed the science on covid pandemic with masks and vaccines and virginia did a very good job. youngkin is a rising republican star now field compel to emulate ron desantis in florida or greg abbott in texas that are skeptical of vaccine mandates would be a problem. >> northam was supportive of the whole racial reckoning movement and moing confederate monument. >> i think this kind of twisted reality, that longer covid exists, the better for republicans. even though their supporting policies that'll spread the virus and we'll look at what's happening in florida and we'll get for more on that in a little bit. as long as covid hangs over us and coursing through our society whether it's variants or delta or a new one, that makes biden looks back and the other issue has not been addressed enough by the administration or democrats. people are going to stores and they can't get christmas present and nothing comes into the mail anymore. their actual lives are getting clunkier or many of them are getting harder. this is something falls on the democrats because biden is president, whether or not it's an offshoot of everything that's happening the past two or three or four years. >> as for what the party learned the defeat up and down the ballots in virginia. congress' failure to pass infrastructure may have contributed to the losses. >> people want to see us get things done. people need a little breathing room. they're overwhelmed. we have to produce results for them to change their standard of living. i think we should have passed before election day. but, i am not sure i would be able to have change the number of very conservative folks who turned out and their red districts who are trump voters but maybe, maybe. >> so jonathan, the president went out yesterday and simply gotten this legislation through, we got to produce for the american people and give them reason to vote for us, privately as you talk to people around the white house, how concerned were they not just in virginia or new jersey. you look at ballots at these races within new jersey and long island and republicans taking over, you had republicans talking about 2022 yesterday already comparing it to 2010 which president obama called a shalaking democrats when they lost 63 seats in the house. >> republicans take back control in that body as he thinks they can pick up 60 seats in next year's election. the historic head winds this democrats are facing. that off year election and virginia as eugene just noted. that's going to be hard. this is also the last two months have not gone exactly to plan for this administration. they are looming real supply chain issues. we had a surge in covid cases late summer thank to the delta variant and they are declining and good news for the children's vaccine. the white house is eager for the president out. there is a real concern here. they do feel like they need to get this agenda passed. polling suggests that virginia election did not have much to do with president biden but certainly the messy process to get it done in washington when democrats control all of congress in the white house they certainly turns some voters off. aides i have talked to say they hopeful this is a wake up call to get something done and get it done soon because democrats did not have something to run on this time, we needed, they say for the midterms. they'll need to have this and they feel like they need to do a better job of what's selling the the bill. too much discussion of price tag and manchin and sinema and jayapal. they need to talk about this program benefiting, selling that can be how they try to hang on congress next fall. >> as you know if we get these two big pieces of legislations through, they would have gone through $1.9 trillion of covid-19 relief and build back for all these social programs and that's a heck of a first year for any president. how worried are they now based on what happened yesterday. boy, the margins could possiby be in congress for this white house who get anything done. >> the closer you get to the election, the harder it becomes to that narrow majority. they end up getting something threw alopg the line. they're talking about something of $1.2 trillion for home care and climate initiatives and things like that. it will be less than progressives and less than what biden wanted. it will be a huge congressman. i think you know this has sort of sour people on democratic governance at the moment. they need to turn the story around from being about how they get there to what they're going to do and that's a big challenge. >> jean, can we agree they can get something done and pass soon and get to the people? >> yeah. >> so as we prepare for joe manchin to come on the show, what are the key questions for manchin and jayapal. >> the key thing is to get the two of them together in a room. >> are they at the same time? >> those are the two major players. the key question manchin said, cost, scopes, he had problems on both scores. >> those seemed simple. >> we are talking arithmetic, right? >> right. >> we are talking congressional arithmetic. >> how long, and how dynamics scoring and this and that. >> there are still amazing things to brag on, you just have to agree on it. >> if you list things that joe manchin believes in or won. there is so much overlap there. there is enough overlap that -- >> trying to get paid leave back. i don't know what's going on. >> everybody has moved the gold post and this whole negotiation and nancy pelosi just moved it again and by the way, manchin says he won, he just won separately. >> okay. >> again, there is a lot of issues but they should not be that. >> okay, we'll ask the principles themselves. we'll have more ahead on the questions and whether an infrastructure deal could have helped democrats this week. senator joe manchin and congresswoman jayapal will be our guest this morning. several republicans who attended the protrump rally in washington on january 6th, the insurrection were elected to public office this week. what that says about the gop and the fight for democracy? also, ahead, green bay packer, aaron rogers will miss this sunday's game after testing positive for coronavirus. now there are questions about whether or not he was vaccinated. you are watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. joe," we'll be right back. the best things america makes are the things america makes out here. the history she writes in her clear blue skies. the legends she births on hometown fields. and the future she promises. when we made grand wagoneer, proudly assembled in america, we knew no object would ever rank with the best things in this country. but we believed we could make something worthy of their spirit. ♪♪ someday you'll be better than your grandpa. - you try it. - i don't know what to draw? it doesn't matter what. just... a line. throw yourself in. ♪♪ don't be frustrated! okay. ♪♪ show me what you got there. ♪♪ wow... absolutely beautiful. in 2016, i was working at the amazon warehouse when my brother passed 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(phone chimes) ♪ ♪ ♪ i jump up on the stage ♪ move your student loan debt to sofi. earn a $500 bonus when you refi... and feel what it's like to get your money right. ♪ i do my money dance ♪ hi sabrina! hi jen! hi. so you're the scientist here. i just have to ask. does my aveeno® daily moisturizer really make my dry skin healthier in one day? it's true jen. really?! this nourishing prebiotic oat formula moisturizes to help prevent dry skin. one day? for real! wow! aveeno® healthy. it's our nature.™ i gotta say i'm still impressed. very impressed. new daily moisture for face. everything you love for your body now for your face. it's time for our veteran's day sale on the sleep number 360 smart bed. what if i sleep hot? ...or cold? new daily moisture for face. no problem, the sleep number 360 smart bed is temperature balancing so you both sleep just right. and it senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both effortlessly comfortable. so, you can really promise better sleep? yes! you'll know exactly how well you slept, night after night. we take care of the science. all you have to do is sleep. and now, save $1,000 on the sleep number 360 special edition smart bed, now only $1,999. plus, 0% interest for 24 months. only for a limited time welcome back to "morning joe," a live look at philadelphia. time to wake up, get up, have that coffee. the supreme court justices appeared skeptical of a new york law requiring a special need to get a permit for carrying a concealed gun outside of the home. the court heard oral arguments yesterday. the conservative suggested that it may violate the second amendment. two-hour argument of the proliferation of guns in public spaces and it was unclear how broadly the court may go in clarifying the second amendment rights according to "the washington post." some worried about guns on new york subways and yankees stadium on new york university urban campus or busy times square. a ruling against new york would have consequences for at least half a dozen other states including maryland, california, and massachusetts which have similar laws and big cities except buy gun violence. jeff merkley's statement. the statement reads "black lives matter here in the halls of congress, it's important that we not just speak and believe these words but put them into action in the decisions we make." "i have carefully mayor emanuel's record and the input of civil rights leaders and criminal justice experts." manuel's nomination descends the floor yesterday. several republicans backed the former mayor and definitely wanted him in place. los angeles' mayor, eric garcetti is isolating after testing positive covid-19. a spokesperson from the mayor says garcetti has been taken rapid antigent test for the conference all came back negative but the test he took for coming back home was positive. the mayor says he has no symptoms. he's scheduled to come back on november 13th. more covid news. aaron rogers will miss sunday's game. he'll sit out the game after reports came out that the quarterback tested positive for covid-19. here what i say the quarterback had to say if august when he was asked specifically whether he was vaccinated for covid. >> are you vaccinated and what's your stance on vaccinations? >> yeah, immunized. i think it's a personal decision and i am not going to judge those guys. >> the three-time mvp received alternative treatment which he believes would inoculate him from the covid-19. it's clear he did not get vaccinated. reports came out that he received treatments from his doctor to raise his antibody levels but he did not get vaccinated. the question is was he following protocols or unvaccinated players or carry on as if he was vaccinated not that the league said he was but he says he was inoculated. >> the report around this story suggests that rogers were following procedures as if he were vaccinated. they have been strict on this. mayors who are not vaccinated have to be in different meetings and have to wear masks and much more social distancing and partial -- your team could get punish if there is an outbreak and so on. rogers is one of the top three or four biggest stars in the league, shows up to camp saying he was immunized and not vaccinated. the reporting was nasal spray that he thought would protect him from covid-19. and perceived to act as if he received the shots and not wearing a mask which endangered the safety of other people there, not just players but staefrs, team officials. people there who assumed he was vaccinated and yet he was not and he carried himself as he was not. he wants out. this may help his case to leave. he's going to miss this week's game and it does not seem like he handles this well and players are grumbling of the conduct of their team leader. >> you have to wonder did the packers know that aaron rogers was not vaccinated? that was august and how many months away and three months away of him moving in and out of unvaccinated and being in the quarterback room and if packers tested positive for covid. the backup did not have covid and they drafted him last year and thought to be the replacement for rogers in green may. there is a lot of questions not for aaron rogers but the packers who knew he was not vaccinated and let him carry on. >> right, what did they know and when did they know? there is no incentives for the packers to look the other way because they can be severely punish and they can lose a game or money. and i keep wondering what must his teammates think? he let them down. he made them vulnerable not only to a deadly disease but also potential outbreak that can penalize him and their season in a way that's not fair. >> it was not fair. this word game of i have been immunized as if that's -- it's just wrong. i think he let the packers down. he let his teammates down. >> the new york city, the vaccine mandates, the numbers work. vaccine mandates among city employees and all front line workers, the number goes down. i wish people can look at the science. coming up, a stunning new claim about the deadly shooting on the set of "rust," it was no accident. attorney involved in the case a live bullet was purposely planted. we'll dig into that ahead. y planted. we'll dig into that ahead. with relapsing forms of ms... there's a lot to deal with. not just unpredictable relapses. all these other things too. it can all add up. kesimpta is a once-monthly at-home injection... that may help you put these rms challenges in their place. kesimpta was proven superior at reducing the rate of relapses, active lesions, and slowing disability progression vs aubagio. don't take kesimpta if you have hepatitis b, and tell your doctor if you have had it, as it could come back. kesimpta can cause serious side effects, including infections. while no cases of pml were reported in rms clinical trials, it could happen. tell your doctor if you had or plan to have vaccines, or if you are or plan to become pregnant. kesimpta may cause a decrease in some types of antibodies. the most common side effects are upper respiratory tract infection, headache, and injection reactions. ready for an at-home treatment with dramatic results? 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>> thank you, i wish that's a great point. it's a way of extending the trajectory of our moral viewpoint and our ethical insights and our appreciation for what it means to be a black person in america and what it means to be an american in the world and to be a citizen among others. the quest for liberation and emancipation and that's jay-z and beyonce. the exceptional is one thing the everyday is another. what politicians do, what managers of music do and what people who go to corporate america do and what reporters do? >> eugene. >> michael, it's jean robinson, congratulations on the book. i have said it to you many times because you are a great and prolific author. talk about how it has changed overtime if indeed it has. has the tone intended of black performance changed in the way african-americans communicate through performance, has that changed? >> very subtle but powerful. when you think about the fact that i mentioned lewis armstrong or ellington, they're trying to make argument for the humanity of black people and the intelligence of black people and for the acceptance of black people. they were ambassadors for us, blowing their trumpets and playing their pianos and singing their songs to open up space to accept african-american people. jackie robinson or henry aaron and wilma rudolph. the contemporary artists may have occupied our space and have a different outlook. hip-ho marks a tremendous shift. we are going to speak the way we speak, we are not going to be respectable, we are going to use words our mothers and fathers find -- the point is hip-hop demands a hearing o f the dominant culture and you must cross over to us and speak our vocabulary and our language and learn our grammar and learn our way of being. that marks a significance shift over the black performances over the last few decades. >> what's the impact? white america did cross over into the black vernacular and you know in a major way to quote where it became dominant sort of musical genre in the country and the world. has that made a difference in terms of how the largest society seize african-americans as part of the natural fabric. >> i think so. when i teach hip-hop in college and university classrooms, most of my students don't happen to be african-american or black, they can be asians, latinos or white students who are coming to the classroom expecting some intense engagement with some of the most intelligent thinkers about issues of race and pop culture and sexuality and the struggles of what it means to be a human being. in that sense, yes. also when we think about you know barack obama feeding jay-z, that's coming full circle. obama was made president because of a guy like a jay-z opening up space for young white people to believe that a highly authoratative black man can speak intelligently and black man can be a leader and white fox can follow a person like that. that created a political space for obama to manage and escalate himself and to elevate the ladder of success. in both of that census opened performances for black people in this country. >> i want to ask you, you started talking about the power of music, i can speak from my own experience as a white kid in the suburbs listening to hip-hop, it started with a good beat and all of a sudden you are listening to the lyrics of nwa or public enemy and you are hearing the stories of what's happening in their lives and community and you are listening and paying attention and understanding. what was the power of that early hip-hop as it started top move from the inner cities and spill out into the suburbs and as you say open some space for other people to come into that door. >> it's a great point. >> this has been a past for many people in suburbs and urban areas to communicate with people they did not necessarily grow up with. you are trying to grapple with the everyday experiences of intelligent thinkers who are trying to talk about issues of importance and for young white kids to encounter that and hear it first of all, it's like a jungle and makes me wonder how i keep from going under and broken glass everywhere, people blank on the stairs and just don't care and you go from that from the police so police think they have the authority to kill a minority. wow, what's going on there? osama bin laden been happening in manhattan, you know and tupac says the other day i got lynched by some crooked cops. when i get my check, they're taking tax out so we are paying the cops to knock them out. the intense struggle between police department and african-american communities, they were introduced to that by some of the most powerful lyrics were law and naked in their honesty and speaking of issues of trauma and tragedy. the rap music pointed attention to. that with along of all fun. how can i move the crowd? first of all, ain't no mistakes allowed. if you can bump the behind, you can enlighten the brain. >> i am not going to try to do that. >> let me ask you this, your definition of performance is fairly broad and obviously different impacts for our music and politicians and dr. king. and you also mentioned george floyd's last performance. tell us what it means and what we have seen come from that. >> it's a great point. for know george floyd flying if the street dying is engaging of vulnerability of black death. these films is a director of a tragic scene of the last minute of a black man's life. george floyd is an actor, not desiring to be an actor, not seeking to be an actor but none the less an actor in a larger place of black survival and black struggle and in this case, black surrender and black death, the in ability to acknowledge a fellow black citizen and the way it played out. he was apart of this large drama and demise and performing to and the humanity of black people and even in the midst of a certain situation calling on his mother and saying that i can't breathe and maintaining the integrity of his belief until the end. it was an extraordinary performance but an performance none the less. >> michael, thank you so much for being with us. still ahead, sounding alarm after a series of unexpected losses or closer than anticipated race this is week. we have several top democratic lawmakers joining us ahead including senator chris murphy and our congresswoman jayapal and senator joe manchin. and senate republicans once again blocked a voting rights bill prompting fresh calls to end the filibuster. that's all ahead on "morning joe," we'll be right back. on "g joe," we'll be right back. there's a different way to treat hiv. it's once-monthly injectable cabenuva. cabenuva is the only once-a-month, complete hiv treatment for adults who are undetectable. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by a healthcare provider once a month. hiv pills aren't on my mind. i love being able to pick up and go. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions post-injection reactions, liver problems,...and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver problems or mental health concerns, and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection site reactions, fever, and tiredness. if you switch to cabenuva, attend all treatment appointments. with once-a-month cabenuva, i'm good to go. ask your doctor about once-monthly cabenuva. as someone who resembles someone else, with once-a-month cabenuva, i'm good to go. i appreciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ welcome back to "morning joe," we continue with what exactly happened on the set of "rust." the attorney is now suggesting the bullet was planted? >> reporter: it was no accident on the set of "rust," that's the stunning and the explosive claim from the attorney representing hanna glee. >> are you suggesting that is case of about sabotage. >> reporter: the 24-year-old did check the revolver before dave hall gave the gun to alec baldwin. she could not tell the difference between blanks or the real bullet in the chamber. >> a dummy round looks similar to a round. euless, texas got a primer. >> reporter: the gun sat on the cart for 2.5 hours when someone tampered with the ammo. >> she tried to do her best, she could not be around the cart 24/7. there were other assistants watching the ammo before she could be. >> reporter: the sheriff says gutierrez reeds and hall remaining the investigation. >> reporter: lane looper resigns hours before the fatal shooting. >> everybody is trying to reach for answer. allegations like that thatshort and lame and quite frankly offensive. >> reporter: the production company has not responded to the new allegation. >> we'll be following that story and as we round out the hour, let's take a look ahead at politics of the week. peter baker, i am not going to make you nervous but your boss is watching you right now. what's the key question for the top democrats in the senate and the house in terms of getting a deal done. >> the big question is terry mcauliffe asked them to do it. you have to show you can get something done. joe biden asked him to do it before he left europe. you have to show something i can get something accomplished and he didn't. is this going to change it or are they going to bicker the details. >> coming up, should swing states reconsider their votes on reconciliation, given the outcome of the governor's race in virginia. there maybe some second thoughts on capitol hill in the wake of that election. plus, with thanksgiving just weeks away, poitics is sure to be a topic at many dinner table. we'll be together this year so this can be awkward. we'll speak with an author who'll help us learn how to coexist with people who'll drive you nuts. 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world a better place for future generations. and right now is our moment. climate change has reached a crisis point. our very way of life is at risk. members of congress you have a chance, right now, to pass a plan that finally takes it on. this isn't just another vote, it's your moment to get it right for them. congress, pass the build back better act. there's a different way to treat hiv. it's once-monthly injectable cabenuva. cabenuva is the only once-a-month, complete hiv treatment for adults who are undetectable. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by a healthcare provider once a month. hiv pills aren't on my mind. i love being able to pick up and go. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions post-injection reactions, liver problems,...and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver problems or mental health concerns, and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection site reactions, fever, and tiredness. if you switch to cabenuva, attend all treatment appointments. with once-a-month cabenuva, i'm good to go. ask your doctor about once-monthly cabenuva. biden saw last night's election results and he went back to europe. >> most of virginia and new jersey have a historical pattern of electing governors of off year elections who are from the opposite party of the sitting president. in virginia, it happened in 10 of the last 11 elections. people tend to vote more when they are upset of the person in power and right now that person is joe biden. voting is like democracy's yelp review. you never leave a comment when the soup is tasty. if you bring me stilled water when i ask for sparkling -- >> it's thursday, november 4th, eugene robinson and jonathan lemire is still with us. >> kirsten powpowers, her new b is "saving grace," learn to coexist with the people who drives you nuts. we'll get some great advice here, we needed now than ever. you thought maybe the timing was wrong. >> new york city i have a lack of imagination. >> the timing is just right for this book and so many ways. we'll talk about that in just a moment. it's now one year and one day since the last presidential election and the election donald trump lost and used to insight his reporters to storm the capitol in january. at least seven people attended the protrump rally in washington proceeded the insurrection were elected to public office. this is what i am talking about. one was elected to a local school committee in massachusetts. one was reelected to the board of directors in new jersey. as for the washington post reports, none were charged with crimes and all denied being part of the mob that ransacked capitol hill. still, it suggests that trumpism is alive and well in part of the country as extremism takes roots in american politics. jean robinson, if you can take it a step further, i think in some ways, the meter had not moved at all since trump left office and while this administration is grappling with the problems that it adopted from the last administration, these problems are in some ways either still existing or the after effects of these problems, supply chain shortages or economic issues are still hitting us. it's actually hurting the current administration. >> yeah, if it rains, you get the blame or the credit. we need the rain, right? so whatever happens, still biden is going to get the credit or blame. >> the needle has not moved that much. i think you know from the vantage point, we see covid cases are moving down. we don't see the impact yet because we are not back to normal. we feel like we are still in the middle of january 6th in a lot of ways because those cases are unresolved and we have not come to any closure on that. we feel that donald trump is still part of our lives although not quite in the way he was before. >> let's get some perspectives and maybe we'll look back. >> he does not have a megaphone that he used to have but conspiracy theories still kind of coarsed through the veins of americans. we have a lot of people who are really, really hell-bent on vaccines and masks that even though donald trump vaccinated, does go back to him. i just worry that biden, everybody expected or thought at best he would be a transitional figure and that would help america move beyond these sorts of phase and polarization. i feel like it's getting worse. >> i think we are in a transition periods. we know we have discussed this this morning already. glenn youngkin is a template of where trumpism is going. he embraced trump in some degrees in the primaries but you did not see him doing that in the general election and that seems to work. you saw people who did not vote for trump last time were turned off by his politics but did vote for youngkin. republicans are ecstatic about this. they see a path for the future in 2022 and 2024. i will also say and i will point out that 70% of adults are close to vaccinated. there is a shift from 2020/2019 and it's just that it has not been fast enough for a lot of people and there is a lot of frustration and we are still living with covid. you can't get your refrigerator or washer machine on time. >> mike barnicle , is that shift happening as elizabeth and jean are pointing out, the concept of cops and firefighters and members of the military even choosing not to push back against a vaccine that would save their lives and family lives and the community they protect. maybe those that are holding out stand out to us more. >> mika. this is a big restless, anxious country that we live in today. the results in virginia are just part of all of that. and, one of the i think if you look at the virginia results and look at your neighbors and if you look at the way people live each and everyday, you understand that the questioning is constant and it's uncomfortable. will covid be with us forever? do i put the mask on or off? what is going to happen to my children? my children and my public school children having lost 18 to 24 months of education. how is that going to impact our future? on and off again and remote learning and shut out of school and going back to school and school buses not running and we don't have enough drivers, i can't buy something in the store because it won't be in until february. a whole conglomerate question that affects us all. once you take the pump out and put it out in your car and as you stare at that meter, wow, gas is costing a lot more than six months or so ago. all of those issues, all of those daily problems that people live with, you put that in the political pot and i am talking about terry mcauliffe, he does not sound like he's talking about something that affects your life. he's talking about donald trump. i don't care about donald trump. i care about my son or daughter and sophomore in high school, what's going to happen to them? i care about the cost of milk and gasoline. tell me about that. not donald trump. donald trump is in my rear-view mirror, what's the direction? god love him he's trying to do the right thing and he's got a split senate, he's got stuff on the table that would help every american and they won't she get it done. >> one has been noticeably absent. this is so strange. we heard this everywhere. all of a sudden, crickets and voter fraud. what happened? everything is fixed. >> and the virginia election, that was run by democrats. >> clean as a whistle. >> down the line and it was just clean. >> i am so glad. gosh, for over a year now, former president donald trump and many of his allies have continued to aggressively promote their baseless claim that the 2020 election was rigged and stolen, all apart of the big lie. since tuesday, the anniversary of what trump called crime of the century, there has been silence. the former head of the government cyber security, chris krebs tweeted, good news everyone, apparently we secured all elections in the last year because i am not seeing a lot of claims of fraud or stolen elections since yesterday. congrats to all your heart work. eric erickson summed it up this way. shut up about stolen elections. and did you really have clung to the 2020 stolen election? it lets you sleep well at night in please unfriend me or unfollow me because your presence is needed in neverland and not here in reality. if you are upset, i said this to quote all of you when you talk about progressives and your feelings. i am quoting there. democrats appeared to forgotten how to manipulate voting machines and stuff ballot boxes and engage in the wee-hour ballot dumps and collect ballots from dead people and coordinate with chinese and venezuela and government to change the outcome of elections. two-thirds of americans believed that's what happened in 2020. and yet, one year later, democrats have lost a nack. kirsten, this is why you are here today. >> this is the crazy making. >> come on, what happened? >> the thing is, i guess i am optimistic than you guys are. i hope you are right and i am wrong. >> it's a very difficult thing to get past and so i think that we do have such a polarized world where we have democrats and republicans basically if you are looking at surveys they do that they think the other side is down right evil. i don't see this correcting in any major way any time soon unfortunately. we have large groups of people who are living in another reality. >> well, i am worried it could recreate and get worse again. it actually applies to your book. the fact that they were talking about the election, there are signs in a neighborhood in virginia that it was in yesterday saying you know, biden lost, trump won still today. two days along with the glenn youngkin sign. your book is about coexisting with these really big differences and some of those differences based on conspiracy theories or whatnot. you say chapter 7 and i really like this, it's really important. it's one practical idea that encapsulate grace. it's the belief that people are doing the best they can with what they have. that's a real core philosophy. people believe it's more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt and they don't know what's going in a person's life or what traumas or wounds. >> the security of this country, that's why this is hard. >> i think that you are doing your best. it does not work for me. how do we deal with that? >> yeah, a lot of times when people think about grace, they have a lot of misunderstanding about it. i think people think it means rolling over or being a dormant or not calling out things that are problematic. when i say that you should look at another person and say they are doing the best they can of what they have, that's going to keep you from going down the road of judgment and dehumanization and all the things that are more harmful to you than the others. >> i think for me what i discovered was using boundaries, i am not going to let the people live, i am going to name what's happening and i am going to look at them and say this is a problem but i am not going to marinate in it which is what i was doing. when i started writing this book or when i got to the point of meeting to write the book, i realized that i was taking on basically everything that was happening around me and basically talking about it all the time and obsessing about it all the time and laying in bed at night thinking about it and all the things i want to say to these people verses actually doing something productive. grace is not something that excuses people's bad behavior. hate is too great a burden to bare. why? who bares the burden? we do. that is survival mechanism. it's not about telling other people -- >> oh, you are not solving the problem, you are helping us survive it. >> exactly. >> jean. >> i can get to point a stewing and marinating. >> yes, you can do it. >> okay, stop stewing and marinating and get out of it. step three, do something about it. >> that's where i want to know where the recipe is. doing something about it when you have people who won't get vaccinated. >> you can write columns of that. >> thank you. >> that's exactly right. >> that's what we do as journalists. >> figure out what your yeses, the minute i go down the judging, i have entangled with this person. i am taking it all in and i am all entangled with them and verses no. i can write a column and talk about it on tv. another person can donate some money or they can volunteer or do a lot of things that's going to help with the situation and not feel miserable. i was miserable all the team. >> okay, i am going to impress you a little bit. this is a tough one. i agree with everything you are saying. i think this book is beautiful and everyone should read it and empathy need to drive your relationships with people especially at thanksgiving and people who may believe that the election is stolen if you don't. and trying to understand where they come from and meet them where they are. absolutely judgment has no place in relationships. what about when you are dealing with people who knows what they are doing. >> that's the hardest. >> i am talking about leaders at capitol hill and vice president mike pence saying january 6th was just any day and another day says something else. >> those are the hardest people and i think that i call grace is a practice and so it's something and not on day one, i would not start with donald trump. it would be like taking on running or running in the marathon. start with your cousin. most people who talked to me are talking about family members or co-workers and that's their day-to-day, those are the people where you can say they're more than this. why do they have this view and who told them this? they're doing the best they can and they are telling the people who tells them these things are not true. we know because we know them. >> we know what they are doing. >> we know that they know is not true. those are the much harder cases and those are the ones that took me a long time to get to a place and again, that's where i really do use boundaries where i just say i am not going to take the bait and go down to crazy town with you. i am going to use my position in society to address it and counteract of what you are doing >> kirsten, good to see you, congratulations on your book. i love this conversation. it's so important of what's going on now. my mom always told me that person who's yelling at you and latching out, there is something going on in his/her life and you need to understand that. it's always frustrating and i could not scream back to the person. what do you say and you began to answer my question here. some of these fundamental things, all of us haves someone or a lot of people maybe even in our lives right now, you talk to them, you love them and respect them and known them for a long time, they're smart people and they tell eh covid is not that big of a deal or january 6th was not that big of a deal. you guys need to relax. some of these core questions do drive a wedge between you, yes, they're about politics in some ways but also they tell you something that maybe you didn't want to know about that person you love. so where do you go with that besides ignoring it completely. how do you begin to understand that person and have that conversation? >> yes, i actually hope i didn't misspeak. i don't think we should ignore it. i think we have to stay engaged and that's the point. this is the how you stay engaged and because i hear from a lot of people, i can't take it anymore and i am not reading the newspaper or reading tv. >> i don't want people to walk away. >> we need to stay engaged and outraged. anger is a great emotion, it tells you something is wrong, the question is what do you do with the anger? do you do something that makes you more angry? how do you learn to have a conversation that actually could be productive and recognizing it's hard to change people's minds but there is social science on how to change people's minds and surprise, surprise, it's not name calling. it's not telling them they are stupid or that they are consuming the wrong media. facts are going to work against you. the minute you start using feedbacks with so somebody and they say where do you get that? they say so you, i got it from fox news and you are thinking are you kidding? they're doing a lot of political canvassing and they call it deep canvassing, basically you share your experience or somebody that you know or you point them to somebody that you know. say they are talking about undocumented immigrants, you know my friends, did you know my friends are undocumented immigrants? you use something that's real and deep canvassing is successful where they have transgender people going outdoor to door and rather than reading the list of why you should protect transgender people, they basically had a conversation and listen impactfully and they say can i share my story? i am actually transgender and here is what it's like for me. they had people changing their minds. they listen to this and what the social science says is people actually think they do trust thaw know what their own experience is. they do trust you know the experience of the people around you. but when you start bombarding people with facts, they will shut down. >> mike barnicle ? >> kristen, as usual i have a stupid question. >> i doubt that. >> you know several years ago, robert putnam at harvard wrote a book -- given of everything on social media and the average person is victimized. people think twitter is an actual country or a power out there. is there anything wrong with surendoring to exhaustion. >> shutdown. >> on social media, how you need to cut back on social media. >> shut it down. >> it's designed to be divisive. that was the first thing i did was gunpoint off of twitter. it's absolutely fine to be exhausted. and so i say for people who i say to go home, i don't have the energy to deal with family or feels unsafe to me or emotionally unsafe for me. is it unsafe or uncomfortable? if your grandma is saying something that's racist and you are like i don't want of that conversation, it's uncomfortable. guess who's going to suffer? it's all the people she's thinking and saying these racist things about. >> it hurts. >> and it hurts her too. we need to be peacemakers and not peace keepers. a peace keeper is like somebody who does not want to get in the middle of it. a peacemaker is somebody that enters into the conflict but they do it with the intention of creating peace and understanding. that's why the chapter on embracing healthy conflicts is important because it teaches you how to have these conversations where both sides can walk away and say that was worthwhile. i may not change my mind but it was worthwhile. there are some people who are called high-conflict who just want to fight with you, you don't have to talk to those people. you can actually just say this is not worth my time. go donate to somebody or volunteer for an organization or if you are a columnist, do something that's going to help. >> hoping to have civil discourse in a sea of insanity or shrill voice at least. as we close, would it be triggering to bring this book and be at the family vacation reading? >> i don't think so. >> you can gift it. >> the new book "saving grace," stay center and learn to coexist with people who drives you nuts. >> kirsten powers, thank you. still ahead, democrats and republicans made a big step on lowering costs of something. we'll talk to senator murphy of what may or may not be in the democrats' social spending plan. the most important voices in those negotiations, senator manchin and congresswoman jayapal will be 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and drugs that are through the roof. what we did was we reached a historic deal and we'll allow for medicare to use its bulk purchasing power to drive down the cost of costs. 20 of the drugs will be purchased through medicare and they'll cut the price of these drugs in half and get 30% or 50% discount. we'll stop price gouching. it will take a chunk of profits away from industry but get some stability to the marketplace. this is a big deal. i expect for it to include in the final bill and i think it will be one of the most popular things we can talk to the american public about. >> and monday morning quarterbacking about some of the stuff is done, the election may have turned out differently. what is it going to take? we have manchin and jayapal coming on later. what is it going to take to get an agreement within the party? >> just think of the new deal with fdr was operating with 2-1 majorities in the united states congress. we have the slimmest of majority and we are attempting to fundamentally change people's lives by lowering costs. there is no surprise this is taking a little wild to get and this is going to happen. it will happen the next couple of weeks. i think it's right had we pass this a couple of weeks ago and had we given the virginia governor candidate a chance to sell this. it's not going to be five points. had he been able to talk about child care cutting by $10,000. >> that would have been good. >> eugene. >> do you think the white house have sold this enough and the president been out there enough and we keep hearing that there is so much many this huge bill that people don't know about this. it's hard to follow because the process has been so messy and slow. it's hard to know what's in or out and they go in and out. do you think the white house has been leaning forward enough on it? >> i do. you have to understand the position that the white house is in, trying to manage a pandemic at the same time trying to sell a domestic agenda. a luxury to sell people and vaccines and making school people are safe and this president has been handed a mess. the tax cut and rejection of the affordable care act and the president is selling an agenda that people like. democrats sometimes get addicted to legislating. this time we got to pass this bill and go out and talk about it every single day. when we do, i think we'll find it's an agenda that people will flock to. >> is the time taking to negotiate the legislation, is it making it any better or making it worse? is the bill getting better? >> i think we all knew ultimately to get something through the senate, we are going to have to sell it for something smaller. the prescription drug piece of this bill is an example, something that gotten better overtime. there was an outcry and outrage. and so over the course of the week and a half, we are able to negotiate with sin sinema and os of this landmark agreement going into medicare and drug prices. there is two sides of the coin here. we could have pushed something through two weeks of the governor's race in virginia. it may not have included production and prescription drug cost. it sometimes taken a little bit of extra time feel better. >> jonathan lemire. >> i want to ask you about something that you care deeply about. ambassadors, only six, president biden's choice while there were 22 during the trump administration. you said your colleague, ted cruz, was acting like a quote, "terrorist," when it comes to this matter. tell us what you meant and why it's so important to get these ambassadors in place. >> what ted cruz is saying if the biden administration does not do what he wants, he's not going to allow any of these ambassadors to proceed and normally qualified ambassadors moving through the process by voice. ted cruz is saying every single one of these ambassadors and secretaries haves to be taken up by the full senate with all the time allowed. this comes a tremendous risk because only five ambassadors the united states are at risk. you know what's happening right now. there are 90,000 russian troops lined up on our border and we are watching to see. we don't have an ambassador trying to keep europe together on our strategy to protect ukraine. we'll continue to protect this. what senator cruz and others are doing are compromising america's security. >> senator murphy, thank you so much for being on with us this morning. we appreciate it. good luck. coming up, exit polling from virginia shows 33% of voters ranked the economy as the most important issue in their vote. it's a trend we are seeing nationwide. as concerns of inflation are dragging down optimism. we'll talk with someone who all knows about business when entrepreneur and co-host of the show "shark tank" when kevin o'leary joins us on the show. we'll be right back. on the show we'll be right back. as i observe investors balance risk and reward, i see one element securing portfolios, time after time. gold. your strategic advantage. first psoriasis, then psoriatic arthritis. it was really holding me back. standing up... ...even walking was tough. my joints hurt. i was afraid things were going to get worse. i was always hiding, and that's just not me. not being there for my family, that hurt. woooo! i had to do something. i started cosentyx®. i'm feeling good. watch me. cosentyx helps people with psoriatic arthritis move, look, and feel better. it targets more than just joint pain and treats the multiple symptoms like joint swelling and tenderness, back pain, helps clear skin and helps stop further joint damage. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections—some serious —and the lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. tell your doctor if your crohn's disease symptoms develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. it's good to be moving on. watch me. move, look, and feel better. ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. as someone who resembles someone else, move, look, and feel better. i appreciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ vo: it's always been true, that each generation has a moment to make sure it's leaving the world a better place for future generations. and right now is our moment. climate change has reached a crisis point. our very way of life is at risk. members of congress you have a chance, right now, to pass a plan that finally takes it on. this isn't just another vote, it's your moment to get it right for them. congress, pass the build back better act. 43 past the hour, a live look at times square in new york city. later this month it says to scale back bond buying. the plan is expected to end stimulus by next june. officials moved up the timeline in case they decide to raise interest rates next year to cool down the economy if inflationary pressure broadens. market reacted positively with stocks turning positive and government bond yields inching higher. inflation has been more rapid and enduring. powell says he expects inflation to keep rising as supply issue continues and start to pull back around the middle of next year. >> joining us now. author and entrepreneur and founder of o'leary financial group, the co-host of "shark tank." if you can put into english what i just explained in terms of what the fed chair did but explain what's going on in the economy as prices going up everywhere and you can't seem to order anything. things are not there. >> yes, we had destruction of supply chain not just domestically but globally. we have been pouring money from a helicopter into the economy since the beginning of the pandemic. all the stimulus programs and relief programs, we now know at least a trillion plus for infrastructure, don't yet know on the social bill. all of these are very, very liquid events, in other words, pouring money into the system gets into the hands of consumers and they start to buy goods and services. here is where it gets complicated. the goods they want are stuck on a ship outside of a port of los angeles, sometimes may whine up to six weeks. that problem had not been solved yet. companies make things like cars, used to rely on parts that were inexpensive in the asian markets can't get them anymore. that goes into the product, it raises the price in there, you have inflation. if you believe the supply chain is going to get repaired, those pressure should come off. my own opinion is half of the inflations coming from supply chain issues. the other half is coming from the fact that consumers are flushed with cash and wants goods and services like they did prepandemic. >> good morning, it's jonathan lemire, walk us through a little bit of a mix signaling o f the economy is showing right now, stock market is mostly good. we are a year and a half into the pandemic. the administration has an aggressive measure to spark growth. where do things stand right now? where do you think they are going? >> well, i am constructive and positive. i have investments in over 34 companies that are private, every sector in america and every geography. we have remarkable situations where the underlying economy is very strong. the fed is saying to itself and they're a tricky situation. their mandate is to watch inflation and they're starting to see it and they don't know how much of it is transitory. you heard that word many times, inflation forces go away and we can stop raising rates but they don't know that yet. they clear that option. the market assumes it's going to happen. i this i the more interesting situation that we don't talk about much. our economy is so productive because of new technologies that accelerated during the pandemic. think of every economy, nike have said they were able to achieve taken six years, they're selling directly to consumers now. they have huge margins on those products. at the end of the day this makes the company far more effective and constructive. what size and what color and what style. the whole american economy gone through the remarkable transformation, very, very efficient and our reliance on using older ways of distribution far less effective has been reduced. that's very proeconomy, that's why you are seeing the markets being so optimistic. new digital america 2.0 is here. >> kevin, despite what you just said, consumers buy director from retailers. there is still an enormous shortage of workers. you see it everywhere you go. there is one thing holding back economy in a number of businesses, do you see it easing in the next year or two or is this something we have to live with? >> it's a great question. there are two forces at play. we paid many people not to work. those programs are just coming off now. september was when some of the checks stopped. companies we are trying to hire workers particularly in restaurants and service industries were fighting against the government. it was a strange program. work for the program and do nothing or work for business. hopefully that's going to stop. that's number one. number two, you may find this statistic rather remarkable. most companies including mine tried to determine last year, last december what number of employees were not going to come back to the office. and we made the assumption along with many other companies in the s&p that would be about 15% of the employees. they used to sit in cubicles, wouldn't come back. now i have the data, at least from my companies, and there are a broad swath, probably 10,000 people included in the supply chains, 55% are not coming back to the office, more than half. not now, not ever. as a result of that, they've moved to places they can stay with their families, take care of elderly parents. they're never coming back to the office. as a result, they won't work inside the cities anymore in their little cubicles at the desk because they've proven they can do it remotely using the technology we already talked about. this has put a lot of pressure on the traditional job markets. the head of my own accounting in my operating company that oversees all of our investments said to me, i grew up on a farm. i'm going back to a farm. i'm going to live on a farm and i'm never coming in the office. if you don't like it, i'm going to work for somebody else. think about that. that's what's going on everywhere. >> i've spoken to some groups of women lately getting out again for know your value and all of them raise their hand when i say who is remote and do you like it. they love it, can get so much done. it frightens me. i feel like women are just going to take on more in the house. this is a huge reality and a conversation we need to talk about more. >> commercial real estate, kevin, is that something you should be short on at this point? >> well, you know, another great question. i actually sold half of our commercial real estate portfolio, not because of the pandemic, because it became too large in terms of our diversification mandates. then when the pandemic started we it continued to sell down commercial real estate because of cap rates, the value of the buildings going down particularly aaa. the law firm and financial services companies are cutting their need of real estate so commercial real estate is in a bit of a funk as we try to figure out -- the owners are optimistic everybody is coming back but that's not the only problem. they were built over 20 years ago where the hazmat systems, the airflow systems, the way they work within a pandemic environment, is not good enough for people to want to go back in the building. the air circulation isn't filtered, the wash rooms aren't configured for a pandemic or the flu. billions of dollars have to go back and change that and that puts a lot of pressure on it. i want to say one thing about women in our economy, you may find this interesting, over the last seven years the majority of my returns and my private companies have come from companies run by women. particularly during the pandemic. they were remarkable in mitigating risk. and that old adage, if you want something done, give it to a busy mother, applies perfectly to business in america. i invest in women-led companies because they return my money back faster. >> i can totally see how that happens. do you know what kevin's nickname is on "mr. shark tank"? >> i do not. >> mr. wonderful. and now i know why. kevin has a lifestyle platform called shop. mr. wonderful, tell us about it. >> during the pandemic, i'm in the wine business. people didn't want to go out and buy wine in stores. a case weighs 39 pounds. they were allowed to be shipped directly and as a result the demand for different kinds of wines went up and up and up. wine is a wonderful thing for people to enjoy and so shop mr. wonderful is a brand-new site that expands my wine offerings. people trust me and i choose it, almost like a wine club. you can order a case, a bottle, six months worth of wine, and it's doing very, very well, and i'm very proud of it. i just love wine. i love to grow and make. my wife and i do it together. it's a wonderful family business. has it ever grown. >> kevin o'leary, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. and still ahead, you may have heard his name pop up once or twice in the debate over infrastructure. senator joe manchin, mm-hmm. he joins our conversation live at the top of the hour. 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>> no, we should have gotten something done. we had a china compete bill we passed with about 90 democrats and republicans from the senate. it's been sitting in the house for quite some time. that's $250 billion, a tremendous amount of research and technology to compete with china. we have a $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill which for eight to ten years will rebuild america. we let that go on for 30 years and haven't done a thing, mika. we should have got those done. to have these bills held hostage, we need to work in good faith. i don't know why we couldn't pass or the house members couldn't pass the two bills they've been sitting on and let's get a cbo score. i think what the election showed us, mika, was basically people are concerned, concerned about inflation, concerned about the debt. we don't talk about it, but they are concerned, i can tell you back home in west virginia gas prices are enormous am people are having a hard time driving to work and paying $20 to $30 more to fill up. they're going to the grocery stores and getting 30% less. they're about to face a very bad winter. we are told much higher prices. yes, i think we should be up front, honest and transparent and do what we can afford to do. >> so you've just described the reality surrounding exactly why these bills need to get through. i have a check list here, i'll write it down. what is it going to take to get to yes? >> well, to get to yes is first to find out what the real cost is, what we're talking about. we're using ten years of revenue to basically supply one or two or five or six years of services. and that's not the true cost. the true cost is ten years to ten years. if you have ten years of revenue, then you would think that we could put a program in place that would last ten years, too. this all needs to come forward and we need a cbo score, the congressional budget office, put a score to this. the rush to this, and i've said this long before, i truly believe we need to slow down. i truly believe we need to wait and see if inflation is transitory. see how much worse it may get. hopefully it doesn't. people are saying both. i'm willing to work through it. my colleagues all know where i stand. i've tried to be transparent and when we have such a divided congress in the house and the senate and i think the votes in virginia show how divided we are, mika. >> you talk about cost and i know there are different sets of time that could be debated, but you agreed to $1.75 trillion, yes? >> yes. the president and i came to an agreement on $1.75. i was working on it and the president was working hard and we had good conversations, good dialogue and good negotiations. that's what it's all about. >> okay, so what needs to be in there or what needs to be out of there? >> let me tell you the things we can agree on that we have agreed on. child care. we agreed on child care. we agreed on pre-k 3 and 4. we agree on climate bill that basically uses technology not just eliminating certain fuels but technology because the world is using more fossils than before. if we don't find a breakthrough in technology the world will get worse because the pollution is coming from asia and china. china has 3,000 coal fired plants and we have 500. many will make you believe the 500 are polluting the whole world. they're not being accurate. >> there are reports the house is putting back in paid family leave. is that a deal breaker for you. >> there are so many things they're throwing in because of their constituents. they have a caucus over there and should work the bill as they see fit. i don't begrudge anybody for doing that but they shouldn't begrudge me. i believe in family leave. i believe people should have that opportunity. i've seen states that have done it in america. i've seen countries around the world that have done it. can't we find a better position for this and do this in a bipartisan way that works? we're talking about unpaid family leave now that will add to the debt we already have at $29 tril dwron. trillion. i would love to expand medicare if we had our financial house in order. but when you have a report from the cbo that you're going to be insolvent in medicare by 2026 and you want me to add more on to it that will make it insolvent quicker, i have people in west virginia, mika, that's their life line. their life line is social security and medicare. i'm doing everything i can to protect it and get those on solid financial ground and then we can expand. >> willie? >> it's willie geist. >> how are you doing? >> i'm doing well, thank you. speaker pelosi yesterday again said this is going to be in the bill, paid family leave will had be in the bill. the proposal we're hearing is for four weeks. president biden in 2020 made this a central promise of his campaign, we're going to get paid family and medical leave. so can you explain what you mean when you talk about this? are you saying it's important but it should be its own piece of legislation or are you saying that you object to it altogether? >> no, i do not object to it at all as far as the concept of family leave. people should be able to have family need as they need it but we should be paying into it as we do for social security, employer/employee participation. we can work a bill out in the regular process that doesn't put a burden on taxpayers and also more debt. because when you start the programs, you never stop them, you just don't. anytime we do something through reconciliation it's done only by one party. the senate was not designed to work off partisan politics but bipartisan politics. to me that's the most stable country in the world. we don't flip back and forth every time somebody changes power. whams now when you do reconciliation, the next time there's a power switch, the republicans would have control, they're going to switch back the same as we're switching the tax coat. there wasn't a democrat that voted in favor of the 2017 tax cuts we thought were weighted to the high-end earners. let's fix that. we're talking about everything but how we fix, truly, the tax corrode that gives and puts our country back on the trajectory we can be responsible with our debt and manage our debt. that's all i've been saying. >> as you know many of your colleagues have said joe manchin holds all the cards here. whatever he determines to do determines the fate of this package that could be defining for president biden. do you see a possibility this $1.75 trillion proposed package, the build back better package, does not pass, that it goes away altogether? >> i don't know. you don't want to look at anything. i've always tried to sit down and work out a compromise. i've always -- that's my modus operation. i wanted people to come together, find a common solution and move forward so we could all go out and speak about it. the best politics is good government. you do something people need and really want and do it together, it will last. when you do what we're trying to do where there's so much disconcern, it makes it more difficult to have anything lasting to it. it's about the united states not the divided states and we seem to be pushing ourselves further and further apart. all the things we're talking about in the reconciliation bill have pretty much been covered in the american rescue plan and that will go on for 2022. the urgency today to do something quickly before we know what it will cost and the ramifications. there's only 50 of us, these things done in congress before us were done with major majorities and whoever was in control. in my state i represent the constituents the best i can. and right now i'm doing the best i can by representing them and also looking at what's best for our country and what we can afford. >> the american people watching say this negotiation has been going on for months and months and months with not much movement. >> it's been moving, willie. >> -- it may not happen and they're not going to get your vote and this package may not pass? >> if we're going to be aspirational and throw something up there i can't explain, maybe we should work a little bit harder. we are the most deliberative body. we're not even communicating. we're stating things on the news as we're doing right now and all this and that. it's the house's bill right now. we'll see what the house does. hopefully they're close to it but i can tell you the one bill that would make a difference or two bills showing we could work and function the way congress is supposed to is the infrastructure bill and the china compete bill. we're not talking about what china is doing as we continue to communicate or lack of communications and going back and forth what they're doing. they have their heads down and are going right ahead with building up military might is unbelievable. their economic engine. they have 3,000 coal fire plants belching out all the power. just beat the living crap out of the united states. >> senator manchin, mika again, i'm hearing you say the communicating isn't happening. what is this dialogue that should be happening? who should it be happening with? >> well, right now since we're in reconciliation, just the democrats should be talking, and we are talking with each other. the bottom line is we're wait to go see what the house does. the house has been holding this. the house has it in their purview right now and they wouldn't let the vote on the infrastructure bill -- and, mika, the president went there twice this is unprecedented. the president goes before the democratic caucus in the house and basically explains how important. but i've never seen absolutely two bills tied together. they either go up or go down. i've seen bills held hostage. all we're asking for is give us a vote on the infrastructure bill and then work the reconciliation bill, make sure you get a score on it, a cbo score, and people can vote. i'm sure my colleagues would love to have that. >> senator manchin, good morning. it's jonathan lemire. two questions for you. one is a quick one. there had been reports that you might be switching parties, i want to get your answer on that. secondly, you're looking for the house to pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill. if they were to do so and then send the better act through as well, the reconciliation package, is there a scenario where if something is in it you do not like that you would be willing and comfortable to be the one democratic vote that stands in opposition to it? >> i do not intend to change on becoming republican. i am a conservative democrat from west virginia and i love my democrats and republicans both in west virginia because i've worked very closely with them. i am not a washington democrat. i'm liberal. i'm socially compassionate, jonathan. the bottom line is i feel comfortable where i am. if party changing identification changes a person, then they're in it for the rong reason. if they think they can just change a party and identification from a d to an r or an r to a d and that makes them a new person, they're in it for the wrong reason. i will work with my republican friends and colleagues because they all are my friends, and i will work with my colleagues and democratic caucus because i consider them my friends. if you really want to see a little bit of west virginia, look at southwest virginia and look at the returns in the virginia governor's race. youngkin won by 84%. that's my entire state. southwest west virginia is the same as all of west virginia. no different than president biden who understand this is process better than anybody who has ever sat in the presidential seat in my lifetime i can reflect back on except i guess lbj. the bottom line is president biden representing delaware, a small state like my beautiful little state of west virginia, we know our people. and we have an obligation to go back and explanation to explain what we're doing and how we're doing it. on that, that's where we are. >> gene robinson? >> senator, you've talked about legislation being held hostage in the house. i'm not sure that really endears you to the house members. >> eugene, it's honest. >> will you commit then, because you've been clear about your parameters, will you commit to voting for legislation that's within your parameters? >> eugene, it won't end because they want me to write in blood i'll be for this, this, and this and i'm not and they know it. they know it. i've been very clear. the only thing i can be is who i am. i'm not going to lie. your word is the only thing you have left in congress that hopefully should mean something but the character that you are as a person. i told you -- i went through some things and i think we can work on other things. reconciliation was designed to work about the finances of our country. and bob bird knew this would happen. knew that they would try to do everything humanly possible without the other side participation. the house was designed to work that way. we don't expect to get anything that's cooled off and tempered, if you will. that's our job. i respect nancy pelosi. i like her very much and we have very good dialogue. we just have to keep talking. i've talked to congresswoman jayapal and we've had great conversations. they represent different parts of the country so we have different philosophical beliefs. if all this stuff that you want that we might not get in the bill, then use that as your campaign strategy next year when everybody runs for 2022 and you'll have more people that are progressive. you won't need people who are not as progressive as you. go use that and use it to your best ability to get more people and do all the things coming in 2023. i'm fine. i'm hoping my vote will not make a difference after 2022. if it does right now, i've got to do the thing that i was sent here to do, represent the people of west virginia and look out for the united states of america which i think we could do and find common ground. >> mike barnicle? >> senator manchin, i've been listening to you quite carefully and you've listed a lot of things you're in favor of like extended medicaid benefits, like more pre-k, more child care. so my question -- >> pretty good, isn't it, mike? >> i followed your career, you rebbe a state filled with some of the hardest working people in america. a lot of old people. >> absolutely. >> a lot of poor people. a lot of veterans. a lot of people who live on the edge and know the meaning of the urgency of now. so my question to you is these extended delays over this program that we're talking about that is filled with so many items that could help people from cabin creek or farmington or wherever, could help them tomorrow, what do you say to them in terms of a country that spends so much money on aircraft carriers and fighter jets and that we won't spend immediately to help you now? >> mike, first of all, you left out a couple things because the people in west virginia, the people i know and represent and i love so dearly, have common sense. they understand the value of the dollar. they've worked hard all their life. they live within their means. they don't spend beyond their means. these are the people i represent, i know them well. they would love to have a bigger house or nicer car, be able to go on vacations. but they live within their means. i was governor and the main thing i said we will get our financial house in order, and we did through the most difficult times when the whole wall street crashed, we were still in very good shape and we didn't lose services to people. as a matter of fact, we expanded services. people don't understand that in washington because they basically have a printing press. we're still buying $120 billion of our debt every month. jerome powell said we're going to start reducing that, down to 15, down to this. if we basically, and inflation continues as it is right now and basically the feds have to raise their rates to curtail this inflation and interest rates up 2% or 3% and you're right at $30 trillion of debt, that's $600 billion of new expenses we have that will destroy everything that we're doing. that's what i'm concerned about, mike. >> joe, before we go, is there anything progressives, especially in congress, could offer that would help speed up this process to get something to the american people? >> mika, we have things going. let me just explain, there's been over $5.5 trillion gone out the door since last march. >> i understand that. >> do you understand world war ii and the marshall plan rebuilding europe was only $4.7 trillion to give you a picture -- we saved the world, rebuilt europe. we're way over five. i have no idea. no idea what as it to be done right now. >> why can't it be done right now? >> don't you want to nope what the finances is, what the cost is going to be? >> so you want a clearer sense of costs and the finances just not $1.75 trillion but more details behind all of that? what you're looking for is accounting? >> the good things we're doing we want to sustain it. if people like it, we'll push it forward. we have three years or five years of a program. that's half. it means it will be $3.5 trillion or $3.9 trillion. how are we going to pay for that without adding to more debt. don't you think that should be evaluated? and we're not doing it. >> okay. we have heard from senator joe manchin. thank you, joe. very good to see you. thank you for coming on. >> good to see you. and just ahead, the congresswoman the senator just mentioned, progressive caucus chair, congresswoman pramila jayapal will be our guest. willie? >> we'll let the congresswoman pull up a chair next to you, mika. joining us now the surgeon general of the united states, dr. vivek murthy. it's great to have you with us this morning. i want to ask you about the fda and the cdc giving its clearance on this vaccine for children aged 5 to 11. a chorus of cheers for parents and children across the country. there are, though, many who are a little hesitant. not people who are anti-vaccine, people who have had it themselves, but worried about giving it to their children. what can you tell them? what do we know about this dose of the vaccine? >> willie, this is a very exciting moment for parents like me with kids under 12 who have been waiting for a vaccine to protect them and now 28 million children in this age group now have an tune to be protected. so this is a landmark moment. what i say to parns out there is, number one, look, if you have questions, it's absolutely your right to get those questions answered. what i want people to know, though, this recent decision by the fda and the cdc was really based on a rigorous pursuit of two key questions. one, is this vaccine effective for our kids and, number two, is it safe for our kids? and on both counts, what the cdc and fda found it is both safe and effective and why they ultimately recommended it. the second thing i would ask parents to keep in mind is that covid has not been a harmless virus to our children. sure, our kids do better than older adults do. we've had hundreds of kids who have lost their lives to covid, thousands hospitalized who have gotten multisystem inflammatory syndrome, that affects multiple organ systems including the heart and many are now struggling with long covid systems. i'm planning to take my 5-year-old to get vaccinated as soon as possible. >> so all of us who have had the vaccine are familiar with some of the side ex, a couple days of feeling sluggish or flu like but this dose is one-third of the dose given to people 12 years old and up. so what can you tell us about the side effects of this vaccine? >> willie, this vaccine was tailored for kids. the dose is lowered, about a third of the adult vaccine, and the trials in which the vaccine was tested were specifically designed for kids. the side effects that they saw in the trial were similar to what adults experienced, soreness in the arm, pain and swelling in the arm, fatigue, headache. occasionally a fever. these lasted for a day or two and then they disappeared. and what their children were left with was protection against covid-19 and good protection, 90% efficacy rate we've seen in clinical trials. that's pretty good as far as vaccines go. and most importantly there were no serious side effects that we're seeing in several thousand children involved in the trial. all of this is reassuring. it's good news. starting tomorrow parents can go to vaccines.gov, find a place to make an appointment, get their child vaccinated. parents have been waiting for this moment for a long time. >> it is truly great news. and dr. murthy, i'm curious what you think the impact of this may be now if the country can get enough of children aged 5 to 11 in addition to 12 and up. what does it mean for schools, for the year 2022 where the country in total, not just kids, may be in terms of this pandemic? >> willie this is a big step forward for us. we know more people who are vaccinated against covid-19, the quicker we get to the end of this pandemic, now that 28 million more people have been brought in under the umbrella, if you will, who are now eligible to be vaccinated, that means we can get there even faster. this is about our health, the health of our children, but it's about getting our kids' lives back. in addition to the terrible results we've seen in terms of death and hospitalization among kids we've seen many children who have had school disrupted, haven't been able to participate in youth sports as much, who have not been able to see their families, friends, go to sleepovers and birthday parties. getting vaccinated gives us a chance. we hit a sobering and tragic landmark, 750,000 americans whose lives have been lost to this pandemic, it's not just a number. there are people's stories and lives behind those numbers. one of them was my uncle who spent decades in ohio as a teacher investing in young people, making sure the next generation was strong and knowledgeable and healthy and well and he, sadly, lost his life to covid-19. each of these individuals we lost represents somebody we can't get back, somebody who gave so much to their community and their family in various ways. we have to use that as motivation and inspiration to ensure not a day goes by when we don't make every effort possible to get people vaccinated because that is our pathway out that have pandemic. it's how we're going to save more lives going forward. >> i'm so sorry about your uncle and sadly, as you say, it's a story all too familiar to many families across this country. some good news with this vaccine available for kids. you can go online, find appointments are open. thank you for being with us again this morning. we appreciate it. and we will be right back on "morning joe" with the chair of the progressive caucus, congresswoman pramila jayapal and her response from what we've heard from joe manchin. you're watching "morning joe." 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>> eugene, it won't end because they want me to write in blood i'll be for this, this, this and this and i'm not and they know it. they know it. i've been very clear. >> okay. that was joe manchin on our show just a few moment ago with eugene joining us now, chair of the progressive caucus and senior whip of the democratic caucus, congresswoman pramila jayapal of washington state. first of all, he wants to understand a full accounting of everything, the size, the scope, the cost and wants to take the time to do that. what's wrong with that? what's your response to what the senator said? >> mika, it's great to see you and be in person. look, he actually negotiated this deal with the white house. it was to his parameters. he will get a full congressional budget office score before the legislation goes to the parliamentarian. that will happen. and we know that there's more than enough money because there are revenue raisers that have already been scored. >> you're giving him a framework of what he expects? is there any possibility you're moving the goal post, adding in things, adding things back in? >> i think the speaker announced she was adding in paid leave, something senator manchin has not agreed to, look, i think that when this goes to -- when we pass it in the house it will go to a parliamentarian scrub and things will be taken out if they don't meet the parliamentary procedures and rules. >> okay, but you know he won't accept that. >> that was the speaker's decision because i think millions of women across the country are outraged that one man would say we're not going to do paid leave. i understand that piece is there but it's been negotiated with the senator and i've been trying -- look, he's a good man. we've had many meetings. i've been trying not to point fingers. we're going to trust the president that he will get 51 votes. >> hold the phone, gene robinson. here is what former adviser to president obama, david axelrod, said yesterday about lessons from tuesday's virginia election. >> independents broke nine points in favor of youngkin and that proved to be devastating. remember that joe biden, i think, won independents by 18 points ten years ago. so that is a real concern for democrats. one of the questions i have is if you're a democrat sitting on capitol hill and you're from one of these swing districts in suburban areas, are you rethinking your vote on the reconciliation package? are you thinking maybe it's best if we weren't doing it? if i was sitting in the white house, in the leadership, i would be worried about that, trying to firm these people up. >> what do you say? >> i say to firm them up is give paid leave so women pushed out can get back to work. give them universal child care and pre-k. >> some of that is in there and some of what you're saying, while i agree with it as a woman in america wholeheartedly, you're saying things that aren't going to get us to go. >> paid leave i will set aside because we endorse the framework as the white house announced it, as the president announced it, and we said we will go with this framework and the speaker decided to put paid leave in. we fully support it but that's a weiss we have to work through. everything else has been negotiated. >> okay. >> everybody is talking about the politics of this. and i'm curious your reaction to the realities of it, the aspiration of it. isn't there an argument that representatives of congress, should do what is best for the american people and then worry about the politics later? why shouldn't they just do what they think is best? >> you're preaching to the choir here. i think people are frustrated because we passed minimum wage in february in the house. it still hasn't passed in the senate. we passed the for the people act for voting rights, that was with a bill redrawn and redrafted by senator joe manchin and still didn't get the votes. there is still the filibuster. i don't think a 12-point swing in a state in this election is about one bill. i think if we have delivered majorities to the democratic party and the house, the senate and the white house, they have to get together and figure out how to get this done. that's why they have been compromising over and over again because we want to get transformational programs. we trust the president but we want both bills to pass to deliver these results to the american people. >> willie? >> congresswoman jayapal, good morning. it's willie geist. congresswoman spam berger watched what happened and she said yesterday we did not elect joe biden to be fdr. we elected him to get rid of donald trump and stop the chaos and the focus should be on inflation, supply chain problems, gas prices, things that are affecting people right now. there is a criticism even within your own party from some moderates this bill is just too big, that it's a catch-all that it tries to solve all the world's problems in one piece of legislation. so what do you say to people like congresswoman spanberger? >> i would say this is the agenda the president ran on and we all ran on that delivered us the house, the senate and the white house. there's nothing new that's being brought in from the outside this is what we ran on. the reality is i think people are worried about costs. the way to address that, because of the supply chain problems, because there are cost increases and it's going to take some time to come out of the worst pandemic we've ever had in this country we should lower costs, and we can do that with the built back better agenda. we are going to provide universal child care and pre-k. that is a massive cost. prescription drug costs. that is a huge cost for families across this countries. we will lower the cost of prescription drugs. this is the way to address the cost concerns that average families, poor families and working families across this country have, that we need to listen to and need to respond to. >> what's the dialogue that needs to be happening between you and other democrats? whether it be the house or the senate what is missing? we do have joe manchin saying what's the rush? let's get it right. we just spent so much money post-pandemic and want to be careful. he has a number. he's agreed upon a number. so it is -- isn't it a matter of dialogue to getting this done and who is it with? >> we're going to pass it in the house, we'll pass both bills in the house. it was 96% agreed and there were 4% we needed to get onboard. now i believe we have the votes to get these two bills through the house and then push it over to the senate. it's 99% now and one person and hope flip the senator will come onboard. i do trust the president, that he's had these discussions. president biden has been leading us through the most difficult time in our country's history including a near coup attempt on january 6 and people who still believe president biden is not the legitimately elected president. let's just do what we can to emerge. i have faith in democracy, faith in the president, and faith in our ability to deliver both bills out of the house and that the senate will get 51 votes there. >> chair of the progressive caucus, congresswoman jayapal, thank you for being on the show this morning. and nice, in person. up next from actor to white house aide to author, kal penn joins us with his latest project. keep it right here on "morning joe." you get more with aarp medicare advantage plans from unitedhealthcare. like $0 copays on tier 1 and tier 2 prescription drugs. ♪ wow! ♪ ♪ uh-huh. ♪ $0 copays on primary care visits. ♪ wow! ♪ ♪ uh-huh. ♪ and with unitedhealthcare, you get access to medicare advantage's largest provider network. ♪ wow! ♪ ♪ uh-huh. ♪ most plans even have a $0 premium. so go ahead. take advantage now. ♪ wow! ♪ bogeys on your six, limu. so go ahead. take advantage now. they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ knowing where you came from, it gives you a sense of “this is who i am”. oh my goodness... wow, look at all those! you get hungry for more and then you're just like, “wow, i'm learning about my family.” yeah, yep. which one, what'd you find? 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>> well, thank you for having me. look, you're absolutely right. i am the son of immigrants like so many people who we know and love, and my parents, i write about this in the book. my dad moved here with $12 in his pocket and the opportunity to pursue a graduate degree in engineering. obviously their version of the american dream was not for me to smoke fake weed with a fake president, but i'm so glad i had those opportunities. and so in putting the book together i wanted the reader to feel like we were having a beer together and i was taking them through that crazy journey of, of course, my parents' and grandparents' experiences. they marched with ghandi to me working at the white house. >> what was that leap for you? you grew up in new jersey, like i did. what was that leap into acting from parents who probably didn't see that, as you say, as part of the plan when they came to this country? how did you get into acting? >> you know, i loved performing from the time i was a kid, and this one story in particular that i think is in chapter two, i was the tin man in my eighth grade production 8th grade production of "the wiz," you're welcome, and as the tin man, i don't know where you went to middle school, but where i went, being a drama kid was not cool. and so the soccer players would tell us that every day and by 2021 standards, it was bullying, there's no other word for it, but back in the day, that was just called middle school, and i was in the zone in this play, and there's a line after the wiz gives the tin man his heart where you're supposed to point to the audience and say, all you fine ladies,watch out. and for some reason, i did this big pelvic thrust and the girls go wild, the crowd loves it, the soccer plays said, that was really funny. why didn't you tell us that's what you were doing? and i thought, is this some sort of a magic of theater that comedy can bring people together when they might be otherwise opposed? that was the first start of the acting bug for me. >> kal, good morning. jonathan lemire, congrats on the book and an interview had some news for a lot of people. you come out as gay in the story and you also really are engaged to be married so congratulations on that as well. why now? why in this venue? how did you choose to make this decision known? >> sure. thank you for asking that. i'm excited for that chapter. that's chapter 18, i think, in the book, and when i was putting all the stories together, i thought, my partner, josh, we've been together for 11 years, i thought i kind of want to tell the story about how we met because it's so ridiculous. he came over to my apartment when i was working in d.c., comes over on sunday for what was supposed to be an hour of tv watching. he shows up with an 18 pack of coors light and puts on my tv and puts it on a nascar race. i naught, is this obviously isn't going to work out. he's going to leave in 20 minutes and next thing you know, i'm sucked into this world of auto racing and we're bonding off this because of the shared experience of camping, so as the son of immigrants, we never had a lot of money, a lot of our family vacations were to campgrounds in the northeast. josh grew up in mississippi and his family vacations oftentimes were to campgrounds to see nascar races so there was this unlikely bond. the thing that you should know about him, they are not fans of the limelight, so for as long as i can remember, i've had this balance of mom and dad and now the last 11 years, josh, they come to premiers, come and meet my friends but they've got this dance they do where they exit the car, go through side entrance, grab the popcorn and the drinks and they're like, you can do as many interviews as you want but we do not like cameras so i was so excited to share their stories too but i wanted to do it in a way that was respectful and i'm so glad i had the chance to. >> you write beautifully about that and by the way, the 18-pack of silver bullets, that's an aggressive opening move. >> dude, so aggressive. >> but it worked out. >> it did. >> mike is here with a question for you. >> kal, i'm so happy to hear about your relationship with josh and it's a validation of your insight and your common sense because i've seen pictures of josh and he's wearing a boston red sox hat. tell me about that. how has this happened? this is wonderful news. >> hey, this is where it got me looking the other way. i was a kid when the mets won the series in '86. then i came to california and just sort of was the -- a baseball nomad but he's got very strong feelings about the sox. i got to let him have that. >> great stuff. >> all right. the new book is "you can't be serious". kal penn, thank you so much for being on this morning. great book and so generous to share so much of yourself and your family with us. we really appreciate it. it is time now for final thoughts and i've got you in my sights here. i'm still spinning over the conversation between the one we had with joe manchin and then pramila jayapal, and i can sympathize with both but it seems to me there's a deal to be made. >> yeah. i think this deal has been there to be made and so i feel like, yeah, we've been spinning on this cycle for a while, haven't we? and so, we had joe manchin, who sounded reasonable. we had pramila jayapal, who certainly sounded reasonable, and so, what if they had actually said those things to each other and then, you know, passed the legislation? and so that's what i think is frustrating. >> he does seem like he does not want it to happen quickly. >> exactly. >> he used the words "slow down" a lot. >> he very clearly has slowed it down, has wanted to slow it down, but saying things like, you know, we have to have a score on it, well, there has to be a score on it, in fact, a congressional budget office score. >> they'll get that. >> before it goes to the parliamentarian in the senate who says whether or not it can go through reconciliation in the first place. so, there will be a score. we will know exactly how much it costs, and so a lot of his objections, i don't know how real they were, you know? the hurdles that we got to jump over. >> i don't envision a dinner cruise on joe manchin's boat with pramila jayapal any time soon but maybe. >> congresswoman jayapal, and she's been this way throughout this process, has been incredibly disciplined. a lot of people in her caucus have called joe manchin a lot of names. she'll never go that way because she's serious about making a deal. jonathan lemire, if you listen to joe manchin, he wants to play this out. there's a bunch in there, including paid family leave, which is core not only to speaker pelosi and progressives but to joe biden. it was one of his campaign promises. joe manchin doesn't appear to be interested in that as part of this deal anyway. what more can the white house do to move the meter here? >> yeah, they are trying to get this moving on the tracks, willie, but it is still -- we're not there yet. it's very clear from senator manchin. he is not going to vote for paid family leave and i think you're right about congresswoman jayapal being so disciplined but one thing that really struck me is she says that she, quote, trusts president biden to make a deal with joe manchin. she has never said she trusts senator joe manchin. so, i think that there is still a divide there that is not yet bridged. >> okay. we'll be watching, and that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage after a quick, final break. ♪♪ there's a different way to treat hiv. it's once-monthly injectable cabenuva. cabenuva is the only once-a-month, complete hiv treatment for adults who are undetectable. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by a healthcare provider once a month. hiv pills aren't on my mind. i love being able to pick up and go. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions post-injection reactions, liver problems,...and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver problems or mental health concerns, and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection site reactions, fever, and tiredness. if you switch to cabenuva, attend all treatment appointments. with once-a-month cabenuva, i'm good to go. ask your doctor about once-monthly cabenuva. with once-a-month cabenuva, i'm good to go. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ vo: it's always been true, that each generation has a moment to make sure it's leaving the world a better place for future generations. and right now is our moment. climate change has reached a crisis point. our very way of life is at risk. members of congress you have a chance, right now, to pass a plan that finally takes it on. this isn't just another vote, it's your moment to get it right for them. congress, pass the build back better act. as someone who resembles someone else, i appreciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ♪♪ hey there, i'm stephanie ruhle live at msnbc heat quarters here in new york city. it is thursday, november 4th. we have got a lot to get to. so, let's get to the news and let's get smarter. the governor's race in new jersey was a stunner, far closer than anyone expected. but the results are finally in. overnight, nbc news called the race for incumbent democratic governor phil murphy. the gap between murphy and republican jack ciattarelli, less than 1.5%. the win is good news for

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