serves. watchful. >> do you think the 2020 election was stolen from donald trump? >> chris, i've been very clear from the beginning. if you look at the number of states, they didn't follow the state past laws that govern the election. >> so you think it was stolen? >> what i said is there are states that didn't follow their legislatively set rules. >> last time, i promise. do you think the election was stolen or not? >> it's not just, states that didn't follow laws set which the constitution says they're supposed to follow. you see states like georgia cleaning up the mess and people calling that jim crow law. that's a flat-out lie. >> speaking of lies, congressman liz cheney, once the number three republican in the house until she was ousted by him and others in her own party for having the audacity to tell the truth about the results of the 2020 election responded to steve with a crystal clear fact check and a roaring condemnation of that. she tweeted this. millions of americans have been sold a fraud. that the election was stolen. republicans have a duty to tell the american people that this is not true. perpetuaing the big lie is an attack on the core of our constitutional republic. it was punctuated over the weekend when more republican leaders, guys like senator chuck grassley, playing to donald trump at a rally of thousands. standing right there, close by his side. embracing him and his message despite a renewed barrage of lies and dangerous disinformation peddled there including false claims that the 2020 election was rigged. trump also sowing doubt on the election results in arizona despite zero findings of fraud through three audits and even the fraudit done by the cyber ninjas. civil war trends on twitter. and it is against that back drop, that lifelong republican chris krebs, once the top cyber security in donald trump's own administration, calling ait a death spiral being perpetuated by his old boss. >> we're seeing this constant erosion of confidence in the electoral system. and it is ultimately anti-democratic and we're frankly in a death spiral, as i see it. and two years, four years at the ballot box isn't good enough. there have to be other accountability measures for those that will continue to proliferate these lies. >> the anti-democratic death spiral, that's where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. jonathan is here with the associated press. also ben rhodes, former adviser to president obama, and alexi is here. ben rhodes, what happens when a democracy stops being a democracy? what do they do? >> well, it happens in slow motion. that's what people have to recognize. it is not one day it is there and the next day it isn't. we've been going down this road of turning into something other than a democracy, something like an autocracy. i think what is eating away at a lot of people is, there are two parallel stories happening in american politics. one of those is somewhat recognizable. democratic administration is trying to pass a legislative agenda. they're dealing with a lot of problems in congress and debating things like how much money should be spent on certain programs. over here on the other side of american politics, you have a very methodical, very deliberate, very transparent effort to try to turn this country into a donald trumpian autocratic reality. you have republican state legislatures passing laws to allow them to overturn elections. you've got republican officials almost across the board embracing a conspiracy theory that justifies undemocratic outcomes because the big lie suggests that you shouldn't trust elections to deliberate results. you should only trust donald trump and his hand picked republican enablers and we could be facing a situation where a bunch of people are living in the reality where you're debating legislative agenda items, but then in 2022, in part because of years of redistricting, the republicans take the house of representatives, they pass these laws at the state legislature. they now have the tools to guarantee if it is a close election in 2024, that donald trump loses, they can just overturn the election and the house of representatives, people like steve scalise, will find in favor of that when it goes to the house and low and behold we could be looking in january of 2025 and looking at a country that is no longer a democracy because it will be won by someone who didn't win the election. this is all happening in slow motion right in front of us and people seem to not know how to stop it. >> it is all happening. here's how you know it is bs. here's how you know steve sclees knows. he could call on them to resign. because if those states were messed up, then they're not real congressmen, are they? why don't the republicans have the courage of their convictions to go all the way? >> it is such a terrifying time when donald trump continues to be the leader, not just the republican party but of plurality of folks across the country. polls show the folks who consider themselves to be republicans, who want to keep supporting not just the donald trumps of the world but the steve scalises and the chuck grassleys and the others who want to continue in that mold and the trumpian politics. to ben's point, it is infiltrating at the legislative level, something that republicans have been doing a long time. when trump still dictates how republicans are voting, you will see the continuation of the trend. >> it would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous, if it wasn't leading us where ben says it's leading us. jonathan, want it to show you something that was on gma this morning. >> when it became even greater, i was most angry at these suits and ties who knew it was a lie. a lot of people attacking that capitol believed the lie. the people i worked with, and i get asked about this all the time. did the republican members believe what they're saying? they know it is a lie. they know the election was not rigged. it wasn't stolen. they don't have the guts to speak the truth. to me that's unforgivable. >> it is important to caveat that with, for about 45 minutes, some of them found the guts to do it. this was chuck grassley's statement condemning donald trump's conduct. he said, trump continued to argue the election had been stolen even though courts didn't back up his claims. he belittled and had a hassed elected officials to get his way. he encouraged his own vice president mike pence to take extraordinary actions. my vote in this impeachment does nothing to excuse those actions. there is no doubt in my mind that president trump's language was extreme, aggressive and irresponsible. everyone must take responsibility for their actions. apparently that does not extend to swaying to the warm-up rally this weekend. >> yeah. and senator grassley, far from alone. he of course announced he will run for re-election. so therefore he believes he needs trump voters so he will make nice. if he's on stage to endorse trump. we've heard similar statements from mike pence who is now criticizing the media from its overfocus one day in january, as he put it. something that does not undermine the four years of the trump administration. nicki haley and lindsey graham who said he was done with trump. done. not so much. he's now a golf partner with the former president and said he's key to the future of the republican party. the list goes on and on and certainly, there are congressmen, rank and file congressmen who have voiced support, who know better. senators, senators holley and cruz in particular cast their votes to have the election be decertified. saying they believe it was not improperly done. and this just shows that the command, the complete grip that donald trump has on the gop with just very, very few exceptions. and there is no sense whatsoever as the mid-terms are around the corner and even as we think a little about 2024. that's going to change. this is still his party and a litmus test. you need to be for the big lie if you're going to be a republican. >> so disgusting. mike pence thinks it was just a day in january? i hope democrats are ready to remind mike pence every single day. >> what we were subjected to that day was by something from a medieval battle. i could feel myself losing oxygen and recall thinking to myself, this is how i'm going to die. >> i was dragged from the line of officers into the crowd. i heard someone scream. i got one! >> eventually it was my turn in the meat grinder. they had shields. i was defenseless and sustaining injury from the increasing pressure of the mob. >> this happened in our country nine months ago! they're celebrating ashley babbitt. what is the game plan? for making sure it is on their minds, that that is what it is, mutilating bodies with flag poles. that's what chuck grassley and mike pence seem to stand for. >> well, i think here's the thing. first you have to recognize that wasn't just one day. that was the culmination. the very natural end point of four years of attacking the media, attacking elected officials, attacking the concept of truth itself, spreading conspiracy theorys, stirring people up, sfwoopg the worst kind of white grievance in this country. it culminated january 6th. that couldn't have happened in a vacuum. it built up tom. now as soon as the clock resets, they started building up again. they're prom gaiting the big lie. they're getting on the ramp again. there will be further political violence. let's not forget what the intent was of january 6th, it was to overturn american democracy. this has to be front and center in our politics. people sense intuitively, like what adam schiff said, there are those voters in the middle swinging these elections back and forth. it's not like they can't tell this is wrong. it's not like they can't tell there is something extreme and undemocrat bik the direction republican politics is taking. but i think it is necessary to remind people. i would like to see the reforms that would make it less likely, that make it so they can't overturn elections, so people can vote without voter suppression, making it impossible for them and down the line. if two democratic senators will continue to block the action necessary to make those legislative changes, then there has to be an argument. every election until we do resolve the issues that our democracy itself is on the ballot. if everything else you care about will be chucked overboard, if we are governed by a kabul of people who have loyalty to nothing higher than donald trump. these are the stakes. so long as we haven't fixed the structures. >> i guess the only thing i would push back on, i think it was the culmination and i don't think you think that. i think it was the halftime show. i think the culmination will be something far more dangerous. the laws have changed. it has been rigged. in georgia, the voter suppression law was so offensive that major league baseball which is loathe to get involved in politics moved the game and we've stopped talking about it. it was so bad and it is the law of the land. the guy that made sure donald trump didn't find his 11,740 votes, brad raffensperger, no hero, is not there and he's been relaced by someone even scarier. what is sort of the state of alarm? what is the plan for making sure that that slide toward voter suppression, toward rigging the count, toward voter nullification that happen in georgia, doesn't happen every where? >> first, you're right. thank you for correcting me. the reality is that they hit a roadblock and then gave themselves the tools to do it again next time which is that states can overturn elections. and donald trump who could take office in 2025 will be much more authoritarian and surrounded by much more autocratic idiocy than even when he came in in 2017 and he wanted to rely on republicans and generals. we will be starting from a much more authoritarian place in 2025. if you look at the coordinated effort that republicans have to be introducing kind of mirror image voter suppression laws at this level, to be introducing mirror image capacity to overturn the election, to frankly be parroting these conspiracy theories, i think if you continue to have the obstruction to filibuster in a way that could allow it to be solved at the federal level, i think you will need a similar level of grassroots, state legislative across the country imperative of educating voters about the extremist threat, of registering people, activating people, putting the biggest possible tent over the coalition of people that oppose this kind of autocracy. what i've seen in other countries is it takes everybody getting together who believes in democracy, even if they might disagree about a lot of other things, working this as if the future of democracy itself depends on it because it does. >> absolutely. it doesn't matter what your tax rate is if you're in jail. i want to talk about something that may or may not be on the radar of our viewers. donald trump makes videos for lots of stuff. he goes to stuff. he goes to wrestling matches. he's like a wedding crasher from that movie. he made a video for someone this weekend. i won't play it but he made a happy birthday birthday to ashley babbitt who was shot during the insurrection. the sergeant has appeared on the show several times. he said oh my god. he doesn't realize she died because of him but he wants an investigation. how many layers upon layers she breached to get into the chamber. the problem is, the impact of disinformation and propaganda, and donald trump, is that up is down and down is up and i wonder if you heard from any republicans today who are uncomfortable with donald trump's elevation and celebration of the martyrdom of ashley babbitt. >> i personally have not. i think the larger point that you're getting at, that ben is getting at, that jonathan is getting at, we're all talking about. it might not be a culmination of the trump politics but we're seeing the clear evolution of the trumpian political mind set take hold, of folks in this country and other republicans. it is fitting that we have donald trump claiming the big lie and the election was stolen from him in iowa. and you all remember well, during the 2016 election, he started calling for voter fraud and election fraud when ted cruz won the iowa caucuses instead of him. he then went on to claim that the election was rigged in some capacity, even though he won it in 2016 because he was unhappy about the margin by which he lost to hillary clinton the popular vote. the difference even though trump has been claiming this big lie is we have a name for it now. but republicans up and down the ballot, around the country, are now getting in line because donald trump is the establishment of the republican party now. he went from being the anti-establishment party to now redefining the party based on his grievances and conspiracy theories. and trumpism is the establishment of the party. and the folks who disagree with him are becoming quieter and fewer in number because that persona as a republican persona is not being done politically. >> it makes me physically ill. i want to read you something with this reality. trump continues to hold a position of influence within the republican party and seems likely if not certain to run again for president in 2024. his embrace of political violence before the 2016 election was noted and noteworthy. but now it's metastasized. trump is publicly defending and refrailing the reputation of a woman who was part of an effort to engage in political violence on his behalf. by extension he's defending and reframing the violence itself. what happens next is what could go wrong? >> yeah. this was a dangerous moment. it didn't happen right away. the ashley babbitt story. we saw that footage within hours of the incident on january 6th. it took some weeks and even months that they embraced her image, that she was a patriot doing the right thing and unjustly killed. none of that was true. she was deeply involved and trying to break into the chamber where she was just steps away from members of congress. if she did that, how many others behind her? but trump in particular has seized upon this. he has put out statements about it and now put together this video. and despite this behavior, behavior that frankly has been largely ignored by the main stream media and therefore allowing republicans to skate past it without having to answer for it. we've seen trump's stock kind of rise. there was a poll that gained attention. he was the favorite. it also showed there were a lot of republicans who didn't want him to be the nominee in 2024. but that poll had another number, too, that leaped out at me. that between january of the insurrection and now, more than 10%, an additional 10% of republicans, from 50 to 60%, thought trump should play a role. whether he wins or not, he should be one of the faces of the gop. 10% increase since january? that shows the effectiveness of his and others' effectiveness. it is the moment they're trying to frame as opposed to one of the darkest days in american history. it is working and that's really dangerous going forward. >> it is not even clear the celebration of ashley babbitt is original material. vladimir putin made the sail points. how interwoven is this? >> what we've seen in the past is that these are completely overlapping narratives. sometimes they originate in russia. and they're kind of turbo charged here. sometime they originate here and the russians come in and juice the social media algorithm to get them to have more legs. the reality is they've constructed like an information feedback loop with their supporters, with that trump base, you slot in any number of antagonists. there is an evil other we're against. usually it is black or brown. and then you slide in a martyr figure. and all this is is to keep them engaged and exercised. the reality is what has been shifting is just how far they're willing to go, and now we're celebrating someone who is part of the effort to end american democracy and that concept just disappears. as long as you continue to stir people up and tugging on their emotions, it doesn't matter what the context is. it doesn't matter what she was a part of. it doesn't matter how divorced from truth it is. people are living inside this movement that has donald trump at the forefront of it. and the entire republican party with a couple of exceptions is just going along with that. and by the way, if they didn't go along with it, it couldn't happen. if people begin to call this out and say this is too dangerous, you wouldn't be able to see it cream back up in trump's numbers. when you have people with credibility. people have known chuck grassley. he's been in people's lives for decades. when they see him go along with it, it makes them think they can go along with it. it is not just on trump. it is on all these republicans who continue to make the choice to go along with it. >> one of the most important points. trump is the spark but the republicans are the oxygen. without them, there is no slide toward autocracy. thank you for starting us off. i know it was grim but it was important. when we come back, the january 6th select committee collecting criminal deferrals to those defying subpoenas to testify before them. another big week in the showdown between congress and donald trump's inner circle. could the gop be next is plus, executives at facebook took some time over the weekend to clean up some of the mess after what we learned if last week's whistleblower testimony. apparently it didn't go so well, that facebook helped spread pro insurrection voices. and later in the show, the gop battle for more election audits in states they won. signaling an all-out assault to undermine confidence in all election results moving forward. don't go anywhere. don't go anyw. michael myers is the essence of evil. the boogeyman... needs to die. if you track michael's victims, it's a straight line to michael's childhood home. [ screaming ] tonight my family will kill him. [ gasps ] [ screaming ] i think if it gets to a point where they're stonewalling, they're not serious, there are contempt things you can file. you can do it through congress, through the doj. this is so serious of a moment that we have to get the answers. if you're running away, if this was literally nothing on january 6th, if it was frankly antifa, which keep in mine they're still out there saying, they should want to come in and testify. if they're hiding something, i can understand why they want to stonewall. >> adam kinsinger saying the january 6th committee he serves on is prepared to ask the justice department to prosecute those who defy their subpoenas. a possible legal battle that could shape the future of the investigation and with it, one of the questions in american politics right now, would there be any accountability anywhere for those who incited a deadly insurrection. joining me now, member of the house oversight and the intelligence committee. congressman, thank you for being with us. so many of these stories coming to a head between judiciary committee report and the january 6th work. i wonder if i can just get your views on what congressman kinsinger is saying, that they're willing to consider contempt. >> anyone who refuses to comply with a valid subpoena is subject to jail time and fines under a criminal statute called 2 usc 192. it is very clear that this particular statute authorizes the doj to go after any witness such as steve bannon, for instance, who refuses to come before the committee. and unlike during the trump years, when we couldn't use that statute because the trump administration wouldn't enforce it, i think this time around the biden administration, i'm hopeful, would be willing to enforce it. >> when you hear steve scalise refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of president joe biden in an election that returned him to congress, and you don't hear steve scalise suggest that every house republican who has returned on the same ballots they now allege were fraudulent and phony or not valid, what do you make of the fact so many republicans buy what he is selling? >> it is deeply disturbing. i know the minority whip scalise knows what he's doing. he's trying to have his cake and eat it too. you're right. the republicans elected in a lot of states they contested are a vital part of his minority and he's obviously trying to create a majority with them. at the same time, he wants to question the election and that's part of the disturbing narrative that the gop is weaving and unfortunately, it is gaining traction within the party. >> what do we do? >> i think we have to do the right thing, first of all. that's why the select committee has to expose the truth. i will say that a recent poll did show that still there is a majority of americans who want to know what the truth is of january 6th. i think we're just racing against the clock. we have to make sure that we get the truth out on the table in the form of documents and testimony, certainly during this congress. i think secondly, we have to hold account those mubls would subscribe to the notion of the big lie that donald trump actually won the election and joe biden did not. and secondly, that donald trump had nothing to do with january 6th but rather, antifa did. that the people, the insurrectionists who appeared were mere tourists as some of my colleagues have said. those are kooky ideas and i think we have to make sure that we message on them properly, and hold those people who would believe in them to account in the upcoming elections. >> i want to show you something that senator raskin said. steve bannon and others don't think congress is serious when you look at what trump got away with. never got accountable for anything. it makes sense they would try with a they're trying. i want to show you what he said, that the january 6th will be a dividing line. >> there was an attack on the u.s. government, on the u.s. congress. more than 140 of our officers were wounded or injured in this violent insurrection which delayed the counting of presidential electoral votes for the first time in american history. so it could not be a graver issue. and none of these people have any arguments. steve bannon had been fired from the executive branch of government in 2017. he was not working for the executive branch. so even if you assume hypothetically that donald trump has some kind of executive privilege, which is extremely dubious in itself, how could that extend to steve bannon? so he's completely exposed. remember, susan mcdougal spent 18 months in jail because she refused to participate in the white water investigation. does it only apply against democrats? i don't think so. the law applies to everybody, including former presidents and including friends of former presidents who are facilitating the incitement. >> and steve bannon was also charged with crimes for which he was pardoned by donald trump. so i wonder if you're confident this will be where the rubber meets the road? if the subpoenas for steve bannon should be enforced, and if not, he will be charged with contempt. >> i think they must be. i think the referral to the doj and the u.s. attorney's office will help to move the process much more smoothly than any process in the trump administration years. i would like to piggy back off something he said. i think that in this particular case, i still believe the vast majority of american people want to know the truth of what happened that day. and to that end, i think the fact we do have republicans on the special committee will help us in bolstering the case for enforcing these subpoenas and getting at that truth and exposing it. it is that important. >> i agree. i think when people see congressman kinsinger and then someone named cheney on the committee, it has its bipartisan nature conveyed. thank you for spending time white house on a holiday. facebook is trying to clean up a very good week. our next guest says this is what facebook intended. s this is what facebook intended. this is... ♪♪ this is iowa. we just haven't been properly introduced. say hello to the place where rolling hills meets low bills. where our fields, inside and out, are always growing. and where the fun is just getting started. this is iowa. so, when are you coming to see us? 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[woof] i'm telling y'all there's no place like wayfair to make your home totally you. ooh! i want that. qunol is the number one cardiologist recommended form of coq10. qunol has 3 times better absorption than regular coq10. the brand i trust is qunol. did the algorithms in place amplify pro insurrection voices ahead of january 6th? yes or no. >> look, given the thousands of algorithms and millions of people using it, i can't give you a yes or no answer to what each people uses. of course the responsibility is for the people who broke the law, who inflicted the violence, who aided and abetted. >> three times. in interview with dana bash yesterday, facebook for global affairs, they clashed over the responsibility in allowing disinformation to spread online ahead of the capitol insurrection. this arrest the searing senate testimony landfall week. she testified that facebook knowingly fueled division for profit with algorithms that ranked content based on engagement. an extreme reaction from their users. the interview adds to the messy being of attempted damage control and complete deflection that included a clean-up attempt by an executive named monica bicert that left most people wanting more straight answers. she, monica, is skilled at making declarative assertions that sound credible, believable, responsible at first blush. her confidence and assertiveness quickly pulled the interview into a discussion about facebook process. the quagmire that results is purposeful. the answers are supposed to be boring, inaccessible and income pre house intelligencible -- income pre hencible. it was an incredible tweet thread. nick maybe missed it. he didn't do any better yesterday. >> no. look. there's only three types of questions that will ever be asked of a person. there are i know questions, i think questions, and i feel questions. you saw nick get a classic i know question. yes or no. as dana bash put it, a direct question. he knows what the answer is but he can't anxious it directly so he gets into a territory, well, i think, i don't know, we feel, and all of the facebook spokespeople who are on television, what struck me is the immediacy with which they tried to strike a connection with the audience. i was a former prosecutor. don't you understand? i prosecuted cases and protected children. nick talking about platitudes. we're all on this journey together. this journey of discovery. and of course, it's all nonsense. this is a trillion-dollar company that was conjured in the dorm room of an awkward teen trying to get hot girls that has metastasized into this monster that afflicts our children and their self-esteem. a great danger not just to american democracy but the democracy globally. it is the information super highway of misinformation, disinformation that has literally imprisoned people algorithmally, as it instructs impenetrable walls that have the effect in the end of forcing submission in these people over intellectual agency, their sovereignty, as they give themselves over to these conspiracy theories delivered by facebook. so we have this enormous issue about what to do with mr. zuckerberg's creation. it is a serious issue. what struck me was not, the cigarette companies have seen a galactic level of disingenuousness with the facebook executives on tv through the weekend. and i suppose now that they've stopped apologizing, that it is a good thing. because it is all out on the table. and i think it will be interesting to see how it plays out. >> and what seem to be so devastating. i read the new york time story about some of the internal strife. the work force now knew that the company knew what they were doing. they knew they were empowering the worst, the grossest, the most dangerous, the most vehement, the most bogus passion stirring disinformation. they knew. it is in line with tobacco. as a corporation that does great harm and knew, they don't often survive, do they? >> well, they're usually profoundly effective but we've never seen a trillion-dollar company before. facebook, i think you can think accurately is less of a company and more as a powerful nonstate actor. this is a company in all the history of the world, nothing quite like it has ever existed before. and at this moment, as a society, the american society as we think about this and try to get our arms around it at the advent of the age of artificial intelligence, where there will be more innovation over the next 20 years than there was over the last 20 years, in this age of rapid technological transition, facebook opens the door to a bevy of issues and questions that a society, as parents we have to reckon with, particularly one that values free speech. because this cannot be the instrument and the vehicle of our poisoning. monica bicker was asked a question. does facebook exist to make profit on this? she said no. it doesn't. that's not the point. the point is what the outcome is. the outcome is we have a company that has obliterated more than any other, that line that exists between truth and the lie. and that's the ultimate danger to democracy. because democracies require the ability to tell the difference between the lie and the truth. without the truth, there is no accountability. with the lie, there can be great abuses in the name of authority. so it is a dangerous company. it is not understood by policy makers, broadly speaking, and it is operating disingenuously in the public space, to say the least. >> thank you for spending some time with us. i just looked at the time. i have to update our viewers. the whistleblower has second the invitation to brief the oversight board. that's separate from mr. zuckerberg. facebook has lied to the public repeatedly and i am looking to share the truth with them. next, fake furs, missing gift bags. all part of the shadiness of a trump administration foreign trip. more reporting on just how much of a mess the last administration really was in this department, next. ration ren this department, next. this is... ♪♪ this is iowa. we just haven't been properly introduced. say hello to the place where rolling hills meets low bills. where our fields, inside and out, are always growing. and where the fun is just getting started. this is iowa. so, when are you coming to see us? ♪♪ ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ like you, my hands are everything to me. but i was diagnosed with dupuytren's contracture. and it got to the point where things i took for granted got tougher to do. thought surgery was my only option. turns out i was wrong. so when a hand specialist told me about nonsurgical treatments, it was a total game changer. like you, my hands have a lot more to do. learn more at factsonhand.com today. there is jaw dropping new reporting in the new york time detailing what appears to be a culture of corruption and incompetence surrounding what some trump officials did and did not do with expensive gifts from and for foreign leaders. it goes farther than that. quote, the state department's inspector general is investigating allegations that trump's political appointees walked off with gift bags worth thousands of dollars that were meant for foreign leaders at the group of seven summit planned for camp david in 2020, which was canceled because of the coronavirus pandemic. the bags contained dozens of items purchased with government funds, including leather portfolios, trays, and marble trinket boxes emblazoned with the presidential seal or the signatures of trump and melania. joining our conversation, the reporter on that new report, mike schmidt. ben rhodes is back. mike, tell us about the saudi furs. that seems to be some of the most salacious and juicy reporting in here. >> so, when donald trump went to saudi arabia in may of 2017, you remember there was that thing with the orb. they really lavished trump with gifts, at least they appeared to. when they got back, a white house lawyer determined that one or two or three of the gifts might violate the endangered species act because it said it was a -- came from a white tiger and it came from cheetah fur, and if you are in possession of items like that, you're violating the law. but the trump white house held on to these items for three and a half more years. they showed up at the general services administration on the last day of the trump administration. the -- in response to our questions, u.s. fish and wildlife took possession of them over the summer, because they're the folks that deal with endangered species, you know, products. and when fish and wildlife looked at these furs and examined them and tested them, they determined that they had been dyed to look like white tigers and cheetahs and they were fakes. >> ben, i know you write about your saudi trip in your book. i want to read you some more of mike's reporting about the saudi trip. state department disclosed a list o 82 gifts from the saudis to trump administration officials on the may 2017 trip in response to a freedom of information act request filed shortly after trump returned home. the gifts ranged from ordinary ones to expensive ones like these furs and daggers. nine of the most expensive presents, the three furs, three swords, and three daggers were sent to the white house gift unit to be assessed and appraised but never appeared on any of the trump state department's legally required annual filings for foreign gifts. according to review of government documents. as mike is saying, it wasn't until january 19, 2021, that they ended up in the right place. i worked in the white house. you worked in an administration. you worked in a white house. you cannot have a reporter like mike buy you a soda. you pay for everything. foreign gifts are a higher level experience. talk about yours. >> well, nicole, my first trip to saudi arabia in 2009, i was traveling with president obama, and we were staying in a compound that belonged to then king abdullah and when i got to my room there was a suitcase right inside the door and it was full of jewels, jewelry, precious stones, and i was new to government and i thought, oh my gosh, are these people trying to bribe me, gain advantage on me? then i find that every single member of our traveling party had gotten a similar suitcase full of jewels and the obamas' was the most lavish and you immediately learn, you don't even touch those. they just get taken by the state department protocol people traveling and that was the routine you get accustomed to in government, whether it's president obama on down, you get gifts where you go and you never keep those gifts for a moment. you just hand those to the protocol people and they just deal with it and it gets accounted and then there's -- yeah, there's an option for you to buy the gifts at the price that they cost but nobody ever takes that option. i think a lot of us were suspicious about whether the trump people were going to follow those rules, particularly when you have people like the saudis who like to lavish gifts on visitors, and sometimes those can be very public displays of gifts, but i don't know what happens when jared kushner goes over to see mohammed bin salman for a private meeting. i think there's probably a lot we don't know here. >> mike, speak to that. what do we still not know? and you know, to ben's point, were there suitcases of jewels given to the trumps that we don't know about? did they get different kinds of gifts? were they fur people and the saudis knew that? explain who gets what. >> well, the problem, as we write about in the story, is that the trump administration did not follow a lot of the rules, laws, and procedures around gifts, and these are things that are designed to ensure that there's not a perception of impropriety, that things look like they're done above board, and the problem that's sort of the heart of this is the fact that the trump administration never properly filed these gifts and disclosed who got them, how much they were worth, and what was done with them. so, because of that, i cannot answer your question about the depth and breadth of the gifts that they received, because they didn't follow the rules. they didn't follow the basics of government. and i understand that compared to a lot of other things, most people may think this is not a big deal and such, but these are sort of the basic, rudimentary parts of government, parts of government that we often do not pay a lot of attention to that under the trump administration, you know, things that were on autopilot in previous administrations went off the rails. >> i mean, i think missing gifts from foreign leaders is pretty essential to who is pulling the strings, ben rhodes. what is the bigger scandal for the saudis, that the furs may or may not have been real or that trump had them somewhere undisclosed for three years and then turned them over? >> i mean, for the saudis, it's probably that they may or may not be real. these are people that are sitting on a billion dollar sovereign wealth fund. to mike's point, i think the reason this is a big deal is yet another reminder that norms, in particular, are not self-executed and if you have people that just ignore the norms, then it opens the door wide open to all manner of corruption. you know, if they're not accounting for the fake tiger furs, do you think they're accounting for other ways in which foreign governments may have lavished resources on them? what happened on trips that weren't as high-profile as the presidential trip? because what's at stake, really, is the integrity of american government and american foreign policy and whether or not it's bought and paid for by people that have good gifts, whether they're tacky or not, whether they're illegal or not here. you know? >> it's crazy, crazy, crazy piece of reporting. mike schmidt and ben rhodes, thank you so much for spending time with us on it. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. we're just getting started. k. don't go anywhere. we're just getting started planning to retire... now's the time to learn more about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare and get help protecting yourself from the out-of-pocket costs medicare doesn't pay. because the time to prepare is before you go on medicare. don't wait. get started today. call unitedhealthcare for your free decision guide. alright. y'all know when they say your home is a reflection of you? 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[woof] i'm telling y'all there's no place like wayfair to make your home totally you. ooh! i want that. one of my favorite supplements is qunol turmeric. turmeric helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. unlike regular turmeric supplements qunol's superior absorption helps me get the full benefits of turmeric. the brand i trust is qunol. how did panera come up with the idea to combine their famous mac and cheese with their iconic grilled cheese? by saying yes. yes to new inventions! yes to clean and fresh ingredients! and yes to living life to the flavor-fullest. panera. live your yes. now $1 delivery. oh! are you using liberty mutual's coverage customizer tool? so you only pay for what you need. sorry? limu, you're an animal! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i think we not only came close to a full constitutional crisis, i think we're still in it. >> yeah. >> and that gives me absolutely no satisfaction in saying this, because i think we're at a very dangerous, continuing, high-level attack on the legitimacy of our government and the election of our president. and obviously, our former president is not only behind it. he incited it. he encouraged it. and he continues to do so. and you have leaders of the republican party who have willingly gone along as though they're members of a cult, not a political party, but a cult. and their continuing attacks on the election, their refusal to say, you know what? we've counted these votes, it's over, we're going to move on, has sown so much doubt and then you combine it with the disinformation network known as facebook and you've got a volatile mix. so, yeah, we are still in the midst of a concerted, well-funded effort to undermine american democracy. >> hi again, everyone. the woman who ran against donald trump with a bleak warning for all of us. our country, our democracy is in peri due to the ex-president and his party marching along, willfully. away from the free and fair elections america has always prided itself on and toward the road of authoritarianism, something totally different for most of us. we saw it in the halls of congress. republicans saying and doing everything all the time just to stay on trump's good side, no matter what the truth actually was while it's bigger now, right? the practice has extended. it's gone local. state and local gop officials, when given the choice now between trump, who lost bigly, and the american democracy, what do you think? they choose the twice-impeached ex-president, all out of fear of losing, i don't know what. positions of power in his orbit. take a look at what's going on in texas. keep in mind, it's a state donald trump won by six points. he's right now pressuring officials in texas to launch audits of that state's election result. axios reports this. former president trump threatened republican texas speaker of the house with political consequences if a bill allowing for more audits of the 2020 election doesn't come up for a vote soon. axios adds this. "when the election audit bill passed in the senate last week, one republican, amarillo senator, voted against it. president trump endorsed one of his primary challengers." he said he would look forward to seeing phelan in the texas primary. this test of loyalty to a loser, a former president and his big lies is metastasizing. insider reporting on a pressure campaign in florida, another state trump won. republican governor ron desantis of florida and top conservative lawmakers in tallahassee are being pushed by members of their own party to audit the 2020 election result. despite former president trump's relatively comfortable win in the state last year. in late september, lake county republicans based in a fast-growing gop-leaning jurisdiction near orlando unanimously drew five resolutions to send to every florida state lawmaker in calling for a full audit. the fact that republicans are now calling of reviews of election results where trump won, in places that they bragged about for being so good, places like florida, is a clear sign and we should all pay attention to it. this isn't about 2020 anymore. it's about 2022. it's about 2024. and everything that comes next, everything. it's all about undermining people's confidence in every election from this point forward. and as secretary clinton said, undermining american democracy. the republican-led slow motion coup happening before our very eyes is where we start this hour. aaron hanes is here, editor at large, charlie sykes, and frank figliuzzi is back, host of "the bureau" podcast, all three msnbc contributors. i'm going to start with bill maher, charlie. >> some presidents spend their post-presidency building homes for the poor or raising money for charity or painting their toes. trump has spent his figuring out how to pull off the coup he couldn't pull off last time. here's the easiest three predictions in the world. trump will run in 2024. he will get the republican nomination. and whatever happens on election night, the next day he will announce that he won. i've been saying it ever since he lost. he's like a shark that's not gone, just gone out to sea. but actually, he's been quietly eating people this whole time. and by eating people, i mean he's been methodically purging the republican party of anyone who voted for his impeachment or doesn't agree that he is the rightful leader of the seven kingdoms. yes, we're going to need a bigger boat. >> it's brilliant. it needed to be said. and i fear that, let's see, charlie, on all three, he's probably correct. >> yeah. he's not wrong, whatever you think about bill maher, that was scary is stuff but i agree with every one of his predictions. look, somebody asked me the other day, what would happen if you had a rerun of the presidential election, the biden-trump election in 2024 and biden wins wisconsin again by 20,000 votes, what would happen? do you think that the next time around a republican-dominated legislature in a republican governor might actually do the unthinkable and overturn the result and i am not confident whatsoever that they would not do that. so, i mean, when you say this is about 2024, you're exactly right. what is the point of the audits other than to discredit the election system, to plant doubt? and you're seeing this from the grassroots, but you're seeing it from the top. you have a leadership problem. you have a followership problem. donald trump goes to iowa and instead of talking about substantive issues that affect the american people, he is doubling down, tripling down, quadrupling down on the big lie, and nobody is pushing back against him. so, what's interesting is you have a lot of cynical republicans who have gone along with the audit because, why not? you don't want to get the tweets. but they're being pushed by the crazies all the time to push it further and further and further and here in wisconsin it's playing out that way where basically the fever swamps are pushing the -- even the republicans have gone along with this, go further, more extreme, threaten local officials with jail. you wonder where we're going to be in 2024, and i think it's going to be a very scary place. >> well, right. of course. and erin, it's not an analogy i use loosely or disrespectfully, but the addiction to trump can't be cured by enabling more heinous trump. so all the enablers have been proven wrong. they've all been humiliated from h.r. mcmaster and secretary mattis on foreign policy, from general milley is barely going to get out with his reputation intact to every politician that nodded and went along with this gambit. they have all been shamed out of their morals, i guess, intimidated out of their convictions, but now what they've green lit is the destruction of our democracy. people don't believe in election result, do we live in a democracy? >> and that is exactly the question, right? because we know that the big lie didn't succeed this time in getting president trump reelected. remember, in 2016, he was pushing the big lie, but he won that election, and so you know, you didn't get the metastasizing of the big lie and the way we see it in 2020. but the big lie is succeeding in undermining our democracy just as you outlined, nicole. the former president is continuing to wield the being lie in the gop because despite being out of office, he's very much in power. it's why you have steve scalise dodging the very simple question, do you think the election was stolen from donald trump? senator chuck grassley is willing to share a stage with the former president after denouncing the january 6th insurrection. this is not just about the last election. it's about the future of election, you know, questioning results in the places that he has won is meant to erode people's confidence in the election and you know, this is something that we have to reject as a country, because regardless of our politics, this threatens the very foundations of what our country claims to be about and the story that we tell the world about who we are, and so that's why this matters and why we have to continue to talk about this and confront this. >> well, i mean, and i guess if we're being honest, frank figliuzzi, this is who we are. we are auditing -- we're still auditing, thrice audited election results, regardless of whether trump won or lost in, what is it, october of 2021. that is who we are, and if you're a friend, we're mortified. we're sorry. if you're our enemy, we're scared too. but here's what we're doing. in boise, idaho, election officials reject fraud claims after more recounts. ajc, no fraud. georgia audit confirms the awe then authenticity of the absentee ballots. arizona mirror, arizona audit, unsubstantiated. the fraud audit results don't seem to matter either because even the fraudit found no fraud. bill barr found no fraud, lifelong republican chris krebs found no fraud. there is no fraud. what is happening? what are our adversaries watching us do to ourselves? >> sadly, there are national security repercussions to this. i know we're focused on things like the future of our democracy, but we also have to tie in and weave into this narrative the fact that we have enemies in the world who are watching this very, very closely, and they're looking at us almost, now, like a third world nation that needs observers to come in to watch the election process. they're going to find us very vulnerable. we're at a point now with states with less than half their population vaccinated, looking at a select committee who's trying but largely being ignored to subpoena people to testify and provide evidence about an insurrection, and now, we are questioning even the states and/or counties where the former president actually won. this is a strategy clearly, as charlie said, to try and get us to lose our faith in our own election system. where does this lead? vulnerability and violence. think about that. if the thought of trump having had the election stolen from him got people to actually stop the peaceful transition of power, try to stop it on january 6th with violence, imagine if now various states decide, you know what? we've got so many anomalies in our systems, we can't trust our own ballots this next election. that is a recipe for chaos and the kind of muscle memory that's required to keep our democracy going, where it's instinctive that we certify an election, we understand the results, and we move on, if that's destroyed, we are in chaos. >> let me show you some of chris krebs' interview, charlie sykes, about what i think frank is describing as this self-fulfilling, self-perpetuating cycle that we are already in. >> they're afraid to speak up, because they're afraid the former president is going to try to primary them and then the other piece is they've activated and lost control of their voting base, the people that are going to put them in power and they know if they go against the former president that not only will he speak out against them but they're going to start seeing people show up at their town halls. you've seen republican members of congress stop holding town halls because they've overactivated their base, and it's gotten out of control. so, again, this is a death spiral. they've lost control and they don't have the ability to rein it back in. >> charlie, this is how old i am and how long ago i worked on campaigns. it used to be political death to be weak. but now, weakness is their brand. the republicans are so weak that steve scalise couldn't go on tv and say, all my republican colleagues who were sent back on the same piece of paper, if it was a paper ballot, that trump was on, they're here justifiably, but the top line for president was fraudulent -- he couldn't even say that joe biden won in the same legitimate thrice-audited in many instances ballots that his house republican colleagues won on. it's an illogical argument. it suggests exactly what chris krebs suggests, they're hostages to their own voters, but they have created the extremism and the radicalization of their own base. >> yes. exactly. they have. and it is, look, these leaders are so weak that they're afraid to tell their own followers the truth. that is a sign of weakness. but chris krebs is absolutely right. what's happened is all of this has gotten totally out of control. it's like they thought we could have a controlled burn, a controlled camp fire, and instead, you have this raging conflagration and they don't know what to do except to go along with it. to frank's point, we have had surveys showing a majority of trump voters would support secession. there is irresponsible, reckless talk of civil war. this is a moment at which americans are increasingly looking at one another with distrust, with loathing, with fear. there's a possibility we will pull apart. and what does donald trump do? he figures that this is exactly the chaos that he needs to launch his revenge tour and he's pouring kerosene on it so it is a dangerous moment that's becoming more dangerous, especially because there are republicans who are looking on, saying, we could push back against this. we could resist this. we could tell the truth. but they're not going to do it. so, yes, we are in this very dangerous spiral, and chris krebs is a professional. he knows how dangerous it is, and i'm glad that he's sounding the alarm. >> i don't like ever putting the clean-up on one of the two parties. this is about the collapse of the republican party, about it descending into not just dysfunction but something that is actually hurting the country, the move away from our democratic norms. that stipulated, errin haines, one of the remedies is to protect the right to vote, the access to the polls, and to protect this accounting. a lot of these suppression laws have nullification measures in them. what is your understanding of the current state of a carveout for federal voting rights legislation? >> well, you know, chris krebs also talked about, in that interview, you know, accountability measures being needed to, you know, to counteract the big lie and, you know, it's unclear kind of who would hold these people accountable that continue to perpetuate this or what accountability would look like, but at least one form of accountability could be, just to your point, the voting rights legislation that is pending in congress, and that is getting kind of a renewed look right now in the midst of everything else that congress is trying to get done in a very divided political climate, but it is unclear whether or not that legislation is going to pass, but those -- that legislation includes the kind of stopgap measures that might counteract a lot of what we are continuing to see either already enacted in states or what you will see state legislatures continuing to try to enact, you know, through the rest of this year, at the beginning of next year, when these legislatures reconvene, so you know, this is something that a lot of the voters who will be impacted by that voter suppression, that's what they voted for. they voted for, you know, federal action to protect them at the ballot box because they -- what they tell me is they did their jobs in november, and they're looking for the people that they helped to get elected to do their jobs now in terms of protecting voting rights. i mean, you've got the supreme court potentially taking up voting rights soon as well, but no indication that they may not continue to erode the voting rights act of 1965 and so, really, you know, all eyes are increasingly turning to congress and what they will be able to do, what final versions of that legislation will look like and if it can even be passed this summer, obviously, both of those bills died, but the future of those bills is kind of being debated anew in this moment, in this climate. it is unclear, though, where we go from here on voting rights legislation, but has not quite yet died in congress but that remains to be seen. >> errin is being nice about it. they're on life support. there's no plans of a filibuster carveout. no plan for president joe biden to barn storm the country. yes, he's busy, but if they don't pass voting rights legislation, i mean, frank, i want to understand what you think foreign leaders, not just our adversaries but what is the line on the briefing paper for a foreign leader when they're coming to visit america. the state of american democracy is what? >> unstable. unstable. and i -- yeah. you're right. it's not just our adversaries, because when our leaders travel, the secretary of state, the president, the vice president, the cia director, when they travel abroad, what do they do? they sometimes admonish even our allies, hey, be careful with that human rights problem you're developing over here. boy, we're really worried about this voting problem you have. now that's happening with us, and foreign leaders are going to have to say, what's going on there? we're not that shining city on the hill that we've been, and you talk about make america great again. this strategy of undermining our faith and confidence in our three equal branches of government with saying no to congressional subpoenas, with undermining faith and confidence in our election, that's not making america great again, and this fuels the foreign adversaries we have. if i'm the head of a foreign intelligence service right now, china, north korea, russia, iran, i am now going to pump propaganda into the united states on social media more than we've ever seen, fueling this notion that you can't trust your elections. they're not right. even where trump won, there were anomalies. get the counties where democrats vote the most. get them undermined. that's what we're ready for. and i hope chris krebs' successor is ready for that kind of flood of propaganda to jump on the back of what trump's trying to do. >> and i think hillary clinton commented, even with facebook, it isn't even hard to do that. frank figliuzzi, errin haines, thank you so much for starting us off. charlie sykes is sticking around. when we come back, as the gop folds in the face of the disgraced ex-president's continued lies, our next guest, a lifelong republican, argues there's only one way to save american democracy. vote for the democrats. that's next. plus, texas's near total ban on abortion back in effect thanks to a decision by a federal appellate court. this was the worst case scenario. we'll look at the impact the gop's war on reproductive liberties is having on women and people there and how crazy have republicans become in texas? 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(crowd applauding) therabreath, it's a better mouthwash. at walmart, target and other fine stores. ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ - your mom's got to go! - she's family. she's using my old spice moisturize with shea butter to unveil them to the world. and she's wearing my robe. mom: ahem ahem ahem we're out. working at recology is more than a job for jesus. it's a family tradition. jesus took over his dad's roue when he retired after 47 year. now he's showing a new generation what recology is all about. as an employee-owned company, recology provides good-paying local jobs for san franciscans. we're proud to have built the city's recycling system from the ground up, helping to make san francisco the greenest big city in america. let's keep making a differene together. this is not about ideology or conservatism. this isn't about right versus left. this is about the kind of path of a personality cult. president trump hasn't left the scene. he's still in the wings all the time trying to orchestrate his return to power or at least his king maker possibility here. there isn't really a political party anymore around him. >> i love her. that was dr. fiona hill on this broadcast last week talking about the threat still posed today by the twice-impeached disgraced ex-president, donald trump, and the transformation of one of the country's two major political parties into what she describes as a cult of personality around the ex-president. it is a crisis that has a number of republicans, not enough, but they're growing louder, urging those opposed to trump to consider things they might have thought unthinkable years ago. in an op-ed titled "we are republicans," our next guest writes this. rational republicans are losing the gop civil war and the only near term way to battle pro-trump extremists is for us to team up on key races and overarching political goals with our long-time political opponents, the democratic party. joining us now, miles taylor, former chief of staff for the white house republican party. charlie is still here. miles, i love you, brother, but i'm going to give it to you straight. the moment to do this was 2016 when some of us voted for hillary clinton and didn't go serve in the administration and put a patina of all of your stature on him. what is the hope? what can you do now? >> yeah, well, look, i mean, i think what we showed in 2020, though, nicole, is that this idea of coalition campaigning works. there's enough disaffected republicans did, in 2020, finally see the light and rally to kick trump out of office, but it was only by very thin margins, and our worry here is if those disaffected republicans stay out of the game in this next cycle, then pro-trump extremists will win in these key races around the country, and that's what we're trying to avoid. so, really, what we're arguing here is to go after the folks, the radicals in the gop, who are basically writing the party's eulogy right now and to team up with democrats to stop them. now, for republicans, that may mean foregoing a gop candidate in certain races. for democrats, it may mean a willingness to support a center right independent against a republican that they can't beat in places like deep red states. and so what we're doing this week at renew america movement is releasing a slate of those candidates, a slate of democrats, independents, and a handful of courageous republicans that should be defended. on the democratic side, it's people like elissa slotkin and abbey spanberger and in other places we're going to suggest that progressives, patriotic progressives, support folks like evan mcmullen who's running as a center right candidate against mike lee in utah. so that sort of coalition campaigning is what we're trying to do and it did work to beat donald trump and we've got to stick to that model. >> i hope it works, miles. it's worked in other places. i wonder if you can tell me anything about the campaign strategy, how much money you have, political ads, tell me what it looks like. >> yeah, well, look, right now, we're trying to raise a war chest. we're trying to raise a $15 million to $20 million war chest to target towards key congressional races and these are races that i would call tip cases. it's not every race in the country. it's the races that we think can decide majorities in the house and in the senate. now, why is that important or significant for a group of republicans to do? because what we're saying is kevin mccarthy should not be the speaker of the house of representatives. if he is, it will become a haunted house, and that's one of the big things that we're trying to prevent. so, we're playing in races where we think we can make that difference, primarily by supporting unifying centrist democrats where it matters and, again, protecting that flank of republicans who hopefully in the long run can reform the party. and if they don't, hopefully they'll be the ones to lead the charge for a new center right party in this country. >> so, hopefully one such kind of republican is adam kinzinger. let me show you his blast against his own party, charlie, for refusing to just tell the truth. >> leaders have got to stand up and tell people the truth. so, if you don't trust the media and you don't trust anything and you're inundated with sources of information, you're going to look at somebody that stands in front of you and talks, and if you trust them at heart, you're going to believe them. and when you have steve scalise not answer whether or not, you know, joe biden was legitimately elected or you have, you know, kevin mccarthy make it clear that donald trump caused january 6th and then put the, you know, the paddles on him in mar-a-lago and resurrect him politically, it's no wonder 70% of the base believes the election was stolen. my biggest fear is that there are some people who don't care what the truth is and that this idea of a stolen election is really just a cover, because this is now gone from, let's go compete in the field of politics. we were convinced the election was stolen. to just simply, you know, power at all means. and if you're in the tribe, good. you're going to be in power and that's what matters. >> no matter how pathetic you are, kevin mccarthy's sort of trump lackeyness included picking out his favorite star burst flavors and i think to congressman kinzinger's point, base politics are heading -- are sort of taking the republican party down this path of being all the things miles says it is, threat to the country, extreme, radical, and i think he's right. it's not just believing the lie. it's indifference to the truth that really endangers all of us. >> no, and i think just on the comment on adam kinzinger, look, political courage is vanishingly rare in american politics, particularly among republicans, so you know, kudos to adam kinzinger who continues to forcefully speak out. and he's absolutely right. i think there's been a very, very cynical calculation on the part of people like kevin mccarthy that, you know, it's a midterm election, the biden administration is struggling, his polls are down, we're going to sweep back into power. let's keep our heads down. if that means accepting the big lie, well, then, that's the price to get back into power and i think that's what republicans are telling themselves. look, guys, we're going to win this election no matter what we do, no matter how reckless we are. so, let's not mess it up. however, you would think that at some point, you know, some part of their souls where they look at steve scalise being so weasely on television and compare him to adam kinzinger and say, would you rather with adam kinzinger or a toaddy like steve scalise? the vast majority of republicans are going the steve scalise model. >> so sad. miles, are you optimistic your effort will be successful? >> look, i'm optimistic in the long run that there are forces for change in this country to make this happen. you just look at the polls. in fact, 50% of americans now say that they are political independents, they're not democrats or republicans. so there's genuine consumer demand for something new in this country. in the short-term, though, it's an uphill battle. that's the reason me and governor whitman led off the piece by saying, rational republicans are losing the gop civil war so our last best hope at the moment is to team up with democrats to deliver defeat to the radicals. that's what we've got to do now to win this fight. but look, i'm worried that american democracy won't reach its 300th birthday if we don't do this. we're calling on concerned conservatives to join us. come back into the fight. it's not over yet. stay tune. >> miles taylor, thank you for spending time with us. charlie's sticking around. when we come back, how the on again near total ban on abortions is creating chaos and tragedy for women in texas. that's next. chaos and tragedy for women in texas that's next. i always had a connection to my grandfather... i always wanted to learn more about him. i discovered some very interesting documents on ancestry. this is the uh registration card for the draft for world war two. and this is his signature which blew me away. being able to... make my grandfather real... not just a memory... is priceless. his legacy...lives on. are you taking a statin drug to reduce cholesterol? 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i don't know. maybe we don't. and that's unacceptable, when we start to try to even wonder if we can blur any lines. of course, we don't. medicine tends to be especially when arcane laws like this make everything that we do kind of on the line, but this is where we're at, and it's ironic, it's indigenous peoples day, indigenous persons in texas, have always, decades, faced access problems. there was this whole woman's clinic, one of the clinics that resumed abortions and reproductive access activities when there was a temporary block, is one of the few clinics that's on the border in places where indigenous women have had access to it, and to strip that away, i mean, what are we doing to women, to history, to families and to the anguish in a time of a pandemic? i mean, it's just utterly nonsensical. >> and it's an important -- it's one woman's story. it's one woman's anguish, a college student who curled into a ball on the table and started sobbing and asked if she could hold my hand. but the reality, according to axios, fatima, is that large areas of the united states, particularly the central region of the country, already have no options within a 250-mile drive and some counties are at least 350 miles from the nearest abortion provider. west texas, oklahoma, kansas, nebraska, north dakota and south dakota all have large areas that are at least a four-hour drive from an abortion provider. this as dr. patel said is where we are and who we are. >> you know, it's devastating, and it's chaotic. we lost dozens of abortion providers in the south and in the midwest in particular over the last decade as there have been -- as there's been this acceleration of laws restricting access to abortion care. i think texas is just making it so visible because it is so chaotic and people woke up one day thinking they were going to be able to access abortion care, and then the next day found out they could not. >> dr. patel, i want to turn to the supreme court. there's been a lot of reporting, a lot of great reporting about how agitated some of the justices are. some of them have given speeches about being viewed as political. that seems to be, maybe, to be determined, i guess, by the outcome of some of these rulings. i want to read you some reporting in vox. the supreme court takes a lie detector test. cameron vs. the surgical center that tests the hypothesis that the justices are always going to right to their personal preference in abortion cases. it involves an effort by kentucky's republican attorney general, daniel cameron, to undo the pro-abortion work of his democratic predecessor. it is a classic partisan dispute over reproductive rights with high officials from both parties maneuvering to get the outcome they prefer. the collateral damage is cheer. it's women's lives. it's that college student's life. but the partisan nature of this shouldn't be overlooked either, because these are not policies. these are not abortion bans that poll well among republicans. and i wonder, dr. patel, how to make sure the conversation stays clear and to make clear, i mean, it seems like the other side has used this sort of extremist disinformation around reproductive rights effectively, and that's part of how they -- some of them get elected. but the extremists are in their own party. the extremists are the republicans backing near total bans on abortion. and i wonder where you think the conversation should go. dr. patel, first, and then i'd like to hear from you too. >> i think the conversation should go back to the facts on the ground, just as you said. there are women that are hundreds of miles away from access, not just to abortions, nicole, we've talked about how it's so important, these are women's health issues, and it's never just one thing. it's -- in those clinics, we're able to address depression, able to deal with the fact that that college student is likely not sleeping. no matter what the outcome of what happens to her. and so going back to the facts, how many women have been denied just basic health access because it's not about abortions, just basic health access, then to talk about maternal outcomes for women who are not able to access any sort of health services because of denial of their rights and just where they live, and then we have worse health outcomes. we actually have downstream health implications for everyone involved, even caregivers around that woman. so, going back to the facts actually helps ground us. actually, justice sotomayor kind of emphasized that in her remarks against kind of the shadow docket ruling and i couldn't agree with her more. it wasn't partisan. she just simply laid down, here's the law, and then here's really the medical repercussions, and that's where i fit in, because we have so many doctors and health providers who are actually trying to understand, where's our role in advocating for patients? i used to live in the state of texas, and i will tell you that we did that all day every day, and now, i kind of think about this, i'm going to have to do that again, nicole, because i think our whole country is going to have to be on the defensive around this, not just texas or the 11 states that are trying to copy texas. >> yeah, i mean, fatima, i guess my question to you is the same that i asked dr. patel, but how does the awareness campaign and the effort to protect women's reproductive rights get scaled to 11 states or worse? >> part of it is making sure people understand that it's not even just these 11 states that are trying to pass copycat laws to the texas law. it is the fact that other states will be next. there are more states that have what they call trigger laws, laws that basically say, if roe v. wade is overturned, then abortion will be immediately banned in their state. and even the few states that are left, they will be inundated. we've already seen that with the state of texas as other states are taking in additional patients that they cannot serve. it won't just be chaotic. it won't be sort of a state of lawlessness in and outside of the area of reproductive health. so we have to have this conversation again and again. >> we will do just that. fatima goss graves, thank you for spending time with us today. dr. patel sticks around. when we come back, a republican candidate running for governor of texas who is blasting the covid vaccine from his hospital bed where he is sick with covid. that story's next. bed where hes sick with covid. that story's next. thinkorswim trading equips you with customizable tools, dedicated trade desk pros, and a passionate trader community sharing strategies right on the platform. because we take trading as seriously as you do. thinkorswim trading™ from td ameritrade. people with moderate to severe psoriasis, are rethinking the choices they make like the splash they create the entrance they make, the surprises they initiate. otezla. it's a choice you can make. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines, and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you. at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner with access to financial advice, tools and a personalized plan that helps you build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner. if you have diabetes, vanguard. you should wear a dexcom. i'm on this one because it's the best. and because it works. it's easy to wear. you put it on, and the numbers are there. no fingersticks. i can't say that enough. the dexcom is a game changer. qunol is the number one cardiologist recommended form of coq10. qunol has 3 times better absorption than regular coq10. the brand i trust is qunol. ♪ well the sun is shining and the grass is green ♪ ♪ i'm way ahead of schedule with my trusty team ♪ ♪ there's heather on the hedges ♪ ♪ and kenny on the koi ♪ ♪ and your truck's been demolished by the peterson boy ♪ ♪ yes -- ♪ wait, what was that? 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[ sighs heavily ] when owning a small business gets real, progressive helps protect what you've built with affordable coverage. for months now, in this program, texas has become the "w" wth, what the heck site and while texas has its cast of characters, i guess we'll call them out there, greg abbott, dan patrick, ted cruz come to mind, one texas politician this weekend showed how crazy some fringe thinking in the lone star state has become. his name is allen west, the former congressman from florida who called for the impeachment of president barack obama and is challenging greg abbott for the gop nomination for governor. he was hospitalized with covid-19 this weekend after attending a crowded fund-raiser. it's his actions after being hospitalized that's been getting attention and coverage. west who is unvaccinated and has been a mjor opponent launched a tweet storm in which he condemned vaccine mandates and promoted controversial treatments including admitting he has taken hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin. we wish mr. west and his wife the best. we hope they get better from covid. this is from the washington post. west said he and his wife who is vaccinated have received treatment with antibodies a move a number of people argue with his remarks against vaccine. antibodies are created in the laboratory to mimic the human immune system. the biden administration announced it reached an agreement to buy another 1.4 million doses of the only authorizd antibodies. the most expensive coronavirus vaccines are $20 each. i'm not sure what, again, i'm glad mr. west is getting antibodies if they make him better. it's a window into how bogus the attacks of coronavirus public health measures really are. >> yes. we have to good wishes for his recovery but we have to comment on the stupid. he's bad at math and medicine here. his position is not only reckless, it's the invincible ignorance of the position. saying that i'm not going to take the vaccine, i'm going to take this other drug because i don't want to enrich big pharma when the cost of the other drug is greater than the vaccines. it's the recklessness of continuing to rail against the vaccines at a time when americans are dying. this is part of this death spiral of craziness where people like allen west who should not be anywhere near a position of responsibility was until recently the chairman of the texas republican party. former congressman and i have to say that of all the things that we have talked about, this is the single most frustrating. the demagogue ri, the misinformation, the dishonesty, the craziness about a public health measure that will save lives and if people pay attention to people like allen west, more people will get sick, more people will be in the hospital and more people will die. of all the things we talked about of the dumbing down of american politics in american culture, this is the most unnecessary. this is the most indefensible and the most frustrating. >> it's also the most danger. unvaccinated people are spreaders. it's still not legal for any child under 12 to be vaccinated. i wonder your thoughts about it but also he's taking ivermectin. is that a good thing? >> no. i would love to have a lot more options for taking care of covid. it's not one of them. combine with the hospitalization, state that's been literally beaten up with covid hospitalizations, he's racked up over $100,000 in costs. to talk about big pharma and railing on that and thinking about the cost of his irresponsibility alone is incredible. not to mention the same state where we had people waiting and dying, veteran, moms, dads waiting for hospital beds not for covid but other things. those two things and the third is finally sealed for me because it's out there, you can see how insidious the lies are on social media and it becomes a social network effect in all of its truth because there are people that think this is what you should be doing and conflated that to the vaccine mandate, a policy. science, lies and somehow that is all about joe biden. somehow it's joe biden's fault that he is ended up in big pharma's pocket. it's stunning to me. >> it's a great point. you're right. we're sort of -- we hope he recovers but his rhetoric is irresponsible and dangerous. the way the strain of republican operates it's joe biden's fault for trying to protect him from getting sick with covid but thank god for joe biden that he is take the drugs he's ordered up and joe biden trying to protect him from anything from happening with the dewormer. we wish you the best, mr. west. thank you so much for spending some time with us on the day's lunacy. quick break for us. we'll be right back. machine break for us we'll be right back. machin what matters most. that's how we've become the leader in 5g. #1 in customer satisfaction. and a partner who includes 5g in every plan, so you get it all. you get more with aarp medicare advantage plans from unitedhealthcare. like $0 copays on tier 1 and tier 2 prescription drugs. ♪ wow! ♪ ♪ uh-huh. ♪ $0 copays on primary care visits. ♪ wow! ♪ ♪ uh-huh. ♪ and with unitedhealthcare, you get access to medicare advantage's largest provider network. ♪ wow! ♪ ♪ uh-huh. ♪ most plans even have a $0 premium. so go ahead. take advantage now. ♪ wow! ♪ ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ so many people are overweight now and asking themselves, "why can't i lose weight?" to unveil them to the world. for most, the reason is insulin resistance, and they don't even know they have it. conventional starvation diets don't address insulin resistance. that's why they don't work. now there's golo. golo helps with insulin resistance, getting rid of sugar cravings, helps control stress and emotional eating and losing weight. go to golo.com and see how golo can change your life. that's golo.com. ♪ . of all the thousands of ways the pandemic changes all of our lives, one that didn't go unnoticed by parents and kids was the inabilities to do anything normal around halloween last year. dr. fauci said trick or treating was safe. now a year later, here is his halloween advice. >> you're out doors for the most part. when my children were out there doing trick or treating and enjoy it. it's a good time to reflect on why it's important to get vaccinated. enjoy halloween as well as the other holidays that will be coming up. >> hospitalizations and deaths are now on the decline. not to mention this time next year many of your younger trick or treaters will be vaccinated as well. thank you for letting us in your home. the beat starts right now. happy monday. >> happy monday. thank you so much. welcome to "the beat." we're tracking a lot. including a special guest on the 30th anniversary of her ground breaking testimony. anita hill is my special guest. we begin with the story in washington. joe biden continues these meetings and back room negotiations and phone calls and all the other ways that politicians keep in touch to see if they can get past the finish line on the spending deal. against that backdrop we have seen headlines where people in the press and the d.c. media are telling democrats they are in danger or this is a problem or things are going downhill. that may be true but it all depends on the future. i can tell you pundits in the media are not good at predicti

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