>> we were stuck on this yesterday. i did a podcast. i had a nobel prize winner on and barnacle jumped in and lemire and i talked about the red sox for 30 minutes. >> it's not right. >> it's what we do. i had little jack. i convinced myself the yankees are ahead of the red sox just like i said this is going to happen. i had little jack. he gets so happy. he's 6'2". every sunday morning he comes up to me, he'll be sitting there in the summer in his soccer jacket with white boxer in the winter. and i said yes, yes, it made him happy on sunday but then that night you guys beat us again and broke our hearts again. afterward little jack says, papa, will we ever be happy again? i said, yes, jack but we'll never be young again. it was a bad weekend. >> i confessed i have not seen jack for a while but i don't know when he talks about a world war ii boy. >> jack is 6'2" by the way. >> and in that voice. the yankees had a good weekend. it was the good weekend john carlo became a yankees. but, we only have one game both you and jonathan will agree, the best of the three remaining, the blue jays host the yankees for a decisive three-game. >> we got three with the orioles and three with the nats. >> we are certainly capable of not finishing the season where we want. they right lane our best friends right now. blue jays do look great and best lineup in the division. take us some injuries of the pitching staff, they're still playing well. the red sox needs to take care of business. if they win five, they're in. if they win four, probably? and maybe less than that. >> thanks guys. let's get to the news now, nancy pelosi changed course telling democrats they'll vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill before reconciliation is done. pelosi promised to link the two bills together refusing to schedule a vote on the senate pass infrastructure bill until reconciliation is ready as well. speaker pelosi blamed the rehearsal on the senate. we were right on schedule to do all of that until ten daps ago or a week ago when i heard the news this number had to come down. it all changed. our approach to change, it all changed so our approach had to change. the chair of the congressional progressive caucus jayapal told msnbc, progressives need to see a reconciliation bill written with agreed upon numbers before the group votes for the infrastructure bill. that vote is expected this thursday. still a little friction inside the party. >> there is always is, mika. this is the way things work out and when people had been saying the past several months they either get ther easy or never get there and nancy pelosi was not able to do it. you always had a sense that this is really one of the most effective speakers of our lifetime or if not the most. this is something that happens and it happens over and over again in congress and it happens with us and with republicans. there were always back and forth. what we are going to do and would do and at the end of the day, we all knew we had to get on the same page and figure out a compromise. that's part of this process and it's not that shocking of a process. >> so you are saying there is a chance. >> that's right jim carey. there is a chance. >> let's bring in jake sherman. i would be shock with nancy pelosi working through this for as long as she works through it and then put a bill on the floor and get defeated. that's not what nancy pelosi does. it looks like she's moving towards a position that a lot of people thought she's going to move towards, get the infrastructure bill passed and move on and get reconciliation done. >> there is no question about it. reconciliation is weeks away but certainly not ready by thursday. is it possible she has some sort of framework by thursday that puts progressives minds at ease. yes, it's possible that happens. joe biden needs to get involved in that. she can't do that on her own. it involves with a bunch of people in the house. unless she either has the votes or believes she will have the votes. i am -- this is the highest wire of legislative act in nancy pelosi's speaker-ship. i have been covering her pretty much since 2009. i do believe that this is difficult and for a few reasons. progressives are looking at manchin and sinema thinking why are we giving up the only legislative insurance we have when at some point it's going to pass. there are a lot of moving pieces and a lot of uncertainty of how this is going to play out. >> given reality of how congress right now and how slim the margins are with democrats, was it unevidentable. and now what does nancy pelosi tell all those progressives who wanted that to be the order of things. what does she give them to say okay we'll go along with this and vote on the infrastructure bill first but we need to come back to reconciliation. what does she tell them? >> too bad. that's something we keep oncoming back to. unfortunately, they don't have the majority anymore like they did in 2006 and 2008. that's not the government they have. what they say it, she did not say it directly but i will say it. joe biden's approval rating is sinking and he's at a tough point at this presidency and he needs to win. democrats said that in a meeting last night. we need to deliver joe biden a victory. we have time to deliver the victory and it does not have to deliver right now. those are complicated dynamics that's coming out. >> meanwhile in the senate, senate republicans are making good on congress not to vote the debt ceiling. republicans argued democrats should pass it themselves through reconciliation because the gop does not support future spending bills. >> let me make it abundantly clear one more time. we'll support a claim continued resolution, we'll not provide republicans votes to raise the debt limit. there is no chance republicans will help risk the credit limit so they can steam roll through a socialist that'll hurt families. >> the republican party is the party of defall. default. keeping the government open and preventing a default is vital to our country's future and we'll be taking further action to prevent this from happening this week. >> we certainly know republicans are raging hypocrites in the era of trump. we are still in the era of trump. here is a party that spent like drunken socialists, you talk about socialists, this republican party sent like drunk and socialists over the past five years. they racked up record levels deficits and record levels of debts. the bills that donald trump and mitch mcconnell approved, the largest budget in the history of the republic. the republicans budget were the largest in history of republic and ran up record deficits and debt. that's the bill actually that has come to now. we are not talking about what happens in the future. we don't know what's going to happen in the future. you don't default at your bank for debts. you may accrue in the future. you default because of what you already done. this is trump's debt, this is mcconnell's debt, this is republicans' debt. by the way, if they're calling people socialists, right? trump is calling people socialists, hey, socialists are big spenders, right? republicans spent more. >> i know this is hard for people to figure out. republicans spend more money on budgets over four trump's years than any president before, lbj, fdr, you name it, jimmy carter, bill clinton. you pick the democrat and the person that was lied about and being called socialists, republicans spend more money. now they don't want to pay their own bills the they said we are not going to pay their own bill. let me ask you, lemire, when we go to fenway, can we try that and order a whole bunch of food and keep piling the food up. i want that whiskey, bring it. hey, bring the signed jersey, we get the $50,000 bill and it's stacked up high and they come and go, there lemire, here is your bill. we are not paying this because barnacle is a socialist. >> that's what mitch mcconnell is doing right noi. that's why the republican party telling americans they're going to let the country default on its debt which will be economically devastating because they're not going to pay their own bills. >> first of all, we would need barnacle to get in that club. you and i can't get in. >> true that. >> this is wrapped up under president trump. there is a decade for both party and the republicans voted to raise the debt ceiling repeatedly. there is the extraordinary and accurate claim of hypocrisy here. the nation could default for the first time. we have heard the warnings and we heard janet yellen says the other day how devastating it would be for the u.s. and its global reputation and its economy at home were this to happen. it's simply, it's the republicans, we all do this in washington and new york and watch this, sometimes we fall in the game like admiring or sub noting mitch mcconnell tactics. oh, he knows how to play the game. that may be the case. but also hypocrisy. it should be called out such that he won't do not just on this but so many issues. he won't put ahead the country first. it's always politics and tactics. it's a time of crisis and it adds to what's on the plate for those in congress and complicates matter here with the reconciliation bill with the infrastructure bill and the threat of the government potentially shutting down early morning friday. i know there are some believe that people i talk to there will be a temporary solution to avoid that. there is a lot here and a lot of things could go really wrong. there is a lack of trust among the parties involved. when you play it this close to deadline, you are watching this thin of a tight rope and there is a chance something could go wrong. white house officials i talked to are nervous about that when we expect president biden to forcely interject himself to all of this coming in the coming days. >> jake, he'll our viewers to separate it out. it's a different question in terms of infrastructure bill and separating those piece of legislation from the $3.5 trillion spending package. we are talking about the debt ceiling and avoid the shutdown which would come on thursday and friday morning. what republicans have said is give us a clean bill, we'll help you fund it. how does it play out the next couple of days. >> a republican alternative would funded the government. it will be easy to fund government. we should avoid a shutdown. if we don't, it is procedural level. i don't know how that would happen. plenty of ways to avoid the government shutdown. the real test is the next month because we expect it's going to be reached by the middle or end of october. sometimes between the 17th or the 25th is what most people assumed. that had to be carried by democrats and democrats under regular order. 60 votes in the senate. mitch mcconnell have been saying two or three months he's not going to do it. there are alternative scenarios where they can amend the reconciliation bill to lift the debt ceiling. that would take two weeks and then they can unlock the fast track of the future which lifts the debt ceiling of 50 votes. that does seem to be the only option and mitch mcconnell is being hypocrite cal. there is no doubt republicans are being hypocrites here. they said it for months, democrats have the tools to do it. democrats can do it. we'll probably have to in the next coming days. does not make it less hypocrite cal or ridiculous. that's the only way out. one more note here. nancy pelosi says last week for the first time, she cast out and other people have said in recent years that violate the 14 amendment. i think we'll see that argument played out >> okay, jake, thank you very much. now to new york city's vaccine mandate for adults working in its public schools. it can proceed as scheduled. a federal appeal panels decided yesterday, the second u.s. circuit court of appeals in manhattan lifted a block of the city's schools mandate put in place last friday by an appeals judge, independence school district now have until friday to get their first dose of covid-19 after mayor bill deblasio extended the deadline. 97% of principals and 95% of teachers have been vaccinated. the mandate affects 150,000 schools and employees. that's big news. as of midnight this morning, new york states vaccine mandates for hospital workers kicked in. the mandates requiring 600,000 public and private hospitals and nursing homes to have receive their first dose of the covid-19 vaccine. >> healthcare officials are bracing for staff shortages due to workers refusing to comply with the vaccine mandate. if those shortages happen, new york governor, kathy hochul says she will dispatch the national guard to effective facilities and would sign executive orders for licenses outside of new york to practice in the state. >> good. >> that's putting down the gauntly. >> it's great. >> healthcare facilfacilities. >> who wants to share their loved ones or parents to a cold hospital when you don't have covid. >> come on. >> i heard a lot of people freaking out of what andrew cuomo did of nursing home. i certainly understand that. some of those people are strangely mute of safety and concerns and now it has to do with vaccines. who would want to send their loved ones to a nursing home or hospital, if the facility of the people who were taking care of them were not vaccinated from a plague. >> the number was 84%. this is good news. healthcare workers have the vaccine. you are looking at a 16% population that's holding out and not getting it. either get the vaccine or look for another job. this is too important and you are putting the health of seniors and people inside the hospital vulnerable and that's what new york city is doing. that'll kick in today. but, you know you talk to the nurses in there. and they want the vaccinations. they want their hospitals to be saved. they're taking about once you walk down the hallway, you have this stretcher and line. every single one of these was full in the hallway because we did not have room. we don't want to go back to that. the mandate is 84% of them as of yesterday made sense. >> still ahead on "morning joe." president biden and senator mcconnell both got their covid booster shots and calling on eligible americans to do the same. we'll talk to dr. anthony fauci about the push to get more people vaccinated. senator hirono joins us on the discussion of congress avoid a shutdown a few days. plus, david letterman shows up for the brooklyn nets. >> we like it. >> joe's podcast is available right now and the new episode is all about "fear and loathing" he loses it in this podcast. joe's conversation with barnacle, lemire is available now. >> it's on spotify or apple music or where ever you get your podcast. "morning joe" is pack in a moment. "morning joe" is pack ina moment as someone who resembles someone else... i appreciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ray loves vacations. but his diabetes never seemed to take one. everything felt like a 'no.' everything. but then ray went from no to know. with freestyle libre 14 day, now he knows his glucose levels when he needs to... and...when he wants to. so ray...can be ray. take the mystery out of your glucose levels, and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free. visit freestylelibre.us this is the new world of work. no each day looks differentee. than the last. but whatever work becomes... the servicenow platform will make it just, flow. whether it's finding ways to help you serve your customers, orchestrating a safe return to the office... wait. an office? what's an office? or solving a workplace challenge that's yet to come. whatever the new world of work takes your business, the world works with servicenow. a federal judge agreed to lift all if remaining restrictions on john hinckley jr. as long as he remains stable. hinckley who's 66 years old. officials at the ronald reagan presidential foundation and institutes do not support the judge's decision. the reagan foundation and institute is saddened to hear of the decision to unconditionally release john hinckley jr., we believe he's still a threat to others. patty davis expressed this. she writes in part, people's memories have faded. i have friends who were not born then. for me and jodi foster, the memory of that day will never fade. i will always picture my dad shoved and a shot grazed his lungs. you have to live the fear and darkness that people keep bringing. >> i do not understand what's going on. 2021 sir hand, sir hand is let out? the guy that assassinated b.b. buy kennedy and changed the arc of american history, he's let out of jail, why? why was he paroled? >> why? family was against it and americans should be it. it's political violence. it kills a man but it shakes american democracy to its core and shape our history in a negative way. all the damage and harm was done to this country. you would say the same thing to john hinckley, we are letting him out? unsupervised? i don't ever understand it. it is, it is one more and just one more bizarre ruling. >> i spent time with john hinckley when i was working in the mental institutions. moving on a new possible tool in the fight against covid. drug maker pfizer started mid to late trial to test an oral drug, the drugs can pe administered at the first sign of infection or first awareness of exposure without requiring patients to be hospitalized. pfizer believers the new therapy can help stop the virus early before it has a chance to replicate and spread. >> pfizer will enroll 26 healthy adults who lives in the same household. >> willie, then there is this. brooklyn net star kevin durante, there is a reporter introduced himself as david from basketball digest. kevin, why do people call you k.d.? >> can i call you k.d.? >> yeah. >> okay. my first name is kevin and my last name is durante with a d. >> k.d.? >> this year, what percentage are you planning to give on the court? 95 or 110, what are we looking at? i got off the phone with dollan now. they're talking about a contractual deal that you will be able to play for the knicks. >> all right, comments? >> that was a last one. >> that's it. >> how about you? >> do you have a comment? >> wrap it up. i am being told my time is done. have a great year. >> what about the pelicans? does it kind of make you giggle? >> that's all i got. >> that's it everybody. >> that's david letterman. we don't know what he's up to and kevin durante let's give him credit for playing it. >> he still got the beard, too. looking good. >> by the way, willie, mika and i have been watching and speaking of comic and geniuses, we have been watching murder in the building. you talked about it before, the castings and we all love. just extraordinary, every time the guy walks off, he lights off. selena gomez, and to the two she calls them old man. >> and tina fey and sting. >> poor sting. >> don't stand so close -- leave sting alone. man, what a great tv show. >> it's a great conceit and great casts. the natural chemistry from steven martin and martin schwartz is still out. it's martin, he is just funny every time he opens his mouth. they compliment each other. the sort of unexpected casting of selena gomez of this -- it's a great show. >> wonderful, too. >> i want to turn to some charts. i got steve sitting here with me. eugene robinson, "stop focusing on the negatives." let's start with eugene, the president's approval ratings have taken a dive the last couple of months. why do you think we have to focus on the negatives? >> my point is this is an administration that swings for defenses and they try and often accomplishes big things. the huge rescue plan bill that they got through which was $1.9 trillion. the administration have talked for three administrations now going from afghanistan. the biden team did. they now, you know, it was ugly and messy but they got it done. the massive flood of covid-19 vaccines that they have managed to do. the shift in american foreign policies, again for several administrations, we talked about a tilt towards the endo-pacific on a way to focus in europe and middle east. it was talk until now and the biden administration had done it. this is a really significant shift. and the u.k. and austria with the quad arrangement and failure to fans in the u.s. all the counter china and this is what people have been talking about for a long time. this administration gets it done. >> they you know, you deduct some style points and they can frankly be clumsy in the way they get it. they're doing very big things than anybody thought that joe biden was just going to be the one that's calming all of us down after the insanity of the trump's years was wrong because this administration has androgen androgen -- agenda. >> they're trying to do more things. we were talking about the debt ceiling, mitch mcconnell is not going to participate on this. what are you looking at in your chart this morning? >> yeah, i heard your earlier segment and it's incredible that mitch mcconnell is saying these stuff. this is all about debt and deficits that we accumulated in the past. these debt ceiling crisis can have real consequences. let's take a look at what happens in 2011. you can see ton the left of the standard report index of the stock market drops 7% in one day and wipes a trillion dollars off the network of american families and pension funds and other investors. you can see on the right side, they have also been recovering from the financial crisis and dropping all the way back. both of them eventually did come back. they have permanent consequences. the united states lost its aaa rating. still have not gotten it back. this is not a place we want to be. let's turn to a broader subject. how do get all of this debt and why are we sitting here watching? this chart goes back to 1974. how much debt do we have relative to the size of the economy. the lowest point is since world war ii about 22%. you can see ten years of first black line to get to 32%. it took six years to get to 42%. we had a long, good period mostly under president clinton. look at the right side, we went from 62 to 72 in only three years and 82 in a short period of time. all the way on the right, you see what looks like black solid mark, that's three times percentage increases literally. in we had a pandemic but we went over 100% for the first time. our debt is pilling up. who put this deck here? what you can see here all the presidents since kennedy ranked how much debt they put on. what you can see on the left is trump did the most. yes, the pandemic had a lot to do with it but so were tax cuts that were not funded. obama had the physical crisis but then you have all republican members and on the right side you have the exception of nixon. if you look at that box on the right, you will see something extraordinary. >> all but 5% were under as public republicans. over the last 50 or 60 years have been under republican presidents. >> this underscores the hypocrisy of republicans who say look at the spending there for trump as it lays out. what are we seeing so far with the bidens. there is some optimism. let's say it does shutdown. what kind of economic impact does that have? >> i don't want to be cavalier of government shutdown. take a small example that we close it at furlough but never be when they come back to work. you end up incurring a lot of jobs people are not doing their jobs and checks are getting mailed out still. it's not the way to run a government, let's be sure. it's not how you run a government. it's like a third world republic. >> jean, the last chart if you can put up again about the president. >> pretty extraordinary. back in '94 and beyond when we looked at some of those numbers. >> donald trump and you have republicans al the way down. >> yeah, this image has been a lie. and not just recently. it has been a lie for my entire lifetime. it's simply not true. and yet they keep hammering this this home and make a lot of people believe it and it turns out to be the democrats who were supposedly the big spenders who come in and who have to rectify the situation and have to basically fix what the republicans broke. that has been the pattern, it seems like no matter how many times before. no matter how many times it does not seem to benefit and what is basically a lie. >> steve, let's talk about where this all ends. i think we know where all this ends. republicans say they're not going to do anything to help, extend the debt ceiling. democrats are trying to pressure them to do that as hey, it's our debt. that's what they are going to do. >> look, we don't know. in the past and as you talked about it earlier always been done on a bipartisan base. mitch mcconnell decided to play a game of chickens here. democrats don't want to do that. secondly there is also process issues that i think you may have talked about earlier. you can't wait until the last minute of reconciliation. it takes two weeks of amending reconciliation. there is a whole process around that. you can't go up to the edge and say we are going to do it for reconciliation. there is a lot going on right now that's not out of a play book. we'll have to see how it ends. i am going to believe you with one fun fact. the debt ceiling was put in place 1917. the congress would have to vote on every issues and giving the executive branch a chance to fund the government. now, it's becoming a tool for congress. and so self-destructive. >> if republicans refused to do the right thing and appointing a bipartisan bicamera will. they're not fwoing to do the right thing paying their own debt. >> that's where we are. >> if they don't want to do the right thing as state legislatures and seize control of power from local election officials and basically are telling us all that years ahead of the presidential election that if they don't like how parts of their states voted, they're not going to count those votes. if republicans won't step into stop these out of control state legislatures. they're not going to do the right thing here. they're not going to pass the john-lewis voting rights act extension. update it so we can enforce it. if republicans are not going to do what they did, unanimously in 2005 or 2006, they're not going to do the right thing here. they're not going to pay their their own debt. basically cleaning up the republicans' mess. >> don't be shocked. >> all right, steve, thank you so much for being on this morning. great to see you. >> coming up, after weeks of graphic evidence and emotional testimonies. singer r. kelly has been found guilty on nine federal charges. we'll have the latest on that verdict. and what comes next in this high-profile case. "morning joe" is coming right back. "morning joe" is coming right back after decades of big pollution liars, climate change deniers, and out-of-control fires we're almost there. congress is close to passing a clean energy plan that tackles climate change head on by creating millions of good-paying jobs in the fastest growing industries. we can lower utility bills for families today while protecting the planet our children inherit tomorrow. congress, our window to act is closing and once it does, it may never open again. act on climate change, now. the sleep number 360 smart bed is on sale now. it helps keep you effortlessly comfortable by sensing your movements and automatically responding to both of you. and, it's temperature balancing to help you stay comfortable all night. it even tracks your circadian rhythm, so you know when you're at your best. in other words, it's the most energy-building, wellness-boosting, parent-powering, proven quality night's sleep we've ever made. don't miss our weekend special. save 50% on the new sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed. plus, 0% interest for 36 months. ends monday. . r. kelly is found guilty in all nine counts. stephanie gosk has the details. >> reporter: a verdict of nearly 30 year in the making. r. kelly guilty of sex trafficking and racketeering. the man who wrote the grammy's winning "i believe i can fly" now faced decades behind bars. >> today's guilty verdict forever brands r. kelly guilty. >> reporter: graphic testimonies and victims described being locked for days for not following kelly's rules like for not asking permission to go to the bathroom. >> she was just 16-year-old when she was abused by the pop star. >> the breaking point for me was when he slapped me and choked me. >> reporter: at the center of the case, pop star aliyah who died in a plane crash crash where they were engaged in a sex act when she was 13 or 14-year-old. >> these were decades worth of tears that these women have been in. at least now they are being heard and able to testify and be credibly believed. >> reporter: one and four black girls are sexually abused before age 18. few go to the authorities. the defense portrayed r. kelly as opportunist. >> witnesses after witnesses giving three or five different urgents. >> jury delivered nine hours total, guilty on all counts. >> to the victims in in case, your voices were heard and justice was served. >> nbc's stephanie gosk with that reporting and joining us now prosecutor kristin gibbons. now we want to hear more. can you explain to us what got this case to guilty? >> yeah, it was the explosive testimonies of those 11 young girls and boys who testified their horrific experience they experienced at the hands of r. kelly and the people assisted him, locking them in cages and sexually abusing them as well. >> we saw the other side trying to damage that testimony saying it was inconsistent and stories were changing. what stood out at this point where they can get to get gillty and really unequivocal verdict here? >> it was a thorough police investigation and these young courageous and men able to withstand that cross-examination. they're trying to paint these victims as money-hungry. when you are talking about choking and drugging and as well as restricting access of men and women and diminishing their able to consent. the jury were able to see right through them. that was not consent, that was sexual abuse and they heard him >> first of all, how young were some of these kids? and how does trafficking gets defined in this particular case? >> sex trafficking was he brought a young woman either a minor and some cases it was a minor,over state lines, sometimes in illinois and new york and etcetera in order to engage in some purpose. >> in this particular case, he gave them herpes or he drugged them or assaulted them or he strip their access in some way which is locking them in the rooms and not allowing them to use the bathroom. >> kristen, help us understand the use of rico here. >> how does this apply to this case when we are talking about sex trafficking? >> yes, you know this was really interesting because this seems as an all type of sex cases where you have someone like r. kelly and weinstein, someone in a big position of power utilizing their resources to sexually abuse women. the racketeering statue, the one that are coming. prosecutors were able to show there was enterprise and there was a circle around r. kelly allowing him to engage in this type of activity for decades. the prosecutors did not need to prove each of the enablers had the criminal intent, each of the enablers knew what r. kelly what he was doing. these enablers were recruiting these women and restricting them and not permitting them toll use bathrooms and bringing them to concerts and flying them all over the world but it was r. kelly committing the crimes. >> kristen gibbons, thank you so much. still ahead, dr. fauci will be our guest at the top of the hour. it has been almost a year since the 2020 election and texas is moving ahead with an audit of the results. it's a move that former president trump pushed for, even though he won the state. but, governor greg abbott is saying about that. >> after a year of push back, the obama presidential center will break ground today. >> we'll go live to chicago for that. "morning joe" is coming right back. "morning joe" is coming right back ray loves vacations. but his diabetes never seemed to take one. everything felt like a 'no.' everything. but then ray went from no to know. with freestyle libre 14 day, now he knows his glucose levels when he needs to... and...when he wants to. so ray...can be ray. take the mystery out of your glucose levels, and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free. visit freestylelibre.us finally yasso! a ridiculously creamy, crunchy, chocolatey dipped ice cream experience with 25% less calories because it's made with greek yogurt. so, thanks for everything ice cream, but we'll take it from here. yasso audaciously delicious they really know how to get. and when comcast took over from general electric where the christmas tree tradition continues. yes, we are all for that. >> it's the spirit of the season and if you want to glance the christmas tree, you have to go to the nbc store first and invite some friends. >> "morning joe" mug. >> yes. >> okay, the ap jonathan is here. >> "the washington post," eugene robinson is still with us. >> all right, i am just going to move on here. >> sounds like a record highs and he won't stop talking. >> i have been coming down all of covid. the biden administration -- >> room service, a beautiful view. the biden administration -- oh my god, is pushing ahead, its roll out of covid booster shots. nbc news gabe gutierrez has the latest. >> i am going to get my booster shot and right here. >> reporter: president biden rolling up his sleeve getting a covid vaccine booster, ag eight months after getting his first two doses. >> 20% of americans still have gotten a booster shot. >> reporter: critics say his booster roll-out are confusing. >> they're dancing around it with some language but they're opening the flood gates wholeheartedly and everything to say go get the booster shot. >> going black lash of vaccine mandates. the governor says she will call in the national guard if they don't show up for work. i am hopeful that i don't have to do this. >> with more schools back, children make up more than 26% of all covid cases. that's an 8% jump in two weeks before. new covid cases overall are down. in places of low vaccination rates like kentucky, hospitalizations are still high. >> reporter: staffs are making house calls to try to prevent people ending up here. >> we are not use to this. this is nothing like we ever witnessed before. >> they're getting four injections and that usually takes prep time and 15 minutes. >> reporter: kathy rosati has been vaccinated and now is a breakthrough case. >> it's bad, i don't want to end up there. i am going to take all the measures i can. >> joining us now, chief medical adviser to the president, dr. anthony fauci. >> dr. fauci, thank you so much for being with us. we are in an area, a county that's not using boosters the way they should. >> i got boosters and they're going to go bad. we actually went into get them. had a little kick to it. it knocks me down. it makes all the difference in the world getting to the other side of that and now especially you or your children that have underlying conditions, have that extra layer of protection. >> yeah, it's very important. the situation we know now have been accumulating over weeks or months or so that we want to stay ahead of this. we are seeing when you look at data from following people who have been vaccinated with the two doses of the mrna, overtime their protection against the infection and mild to moderate disease is coming down. and their protection of severe disease leading to hospitalizations showing a good indication showing among older individuals of diminishing to the point where protection is waning. boosters, get people maximum and optimum protection and to do it in an orderly fashion. i think this is an important part of protecting people. >> yeah, are we finding the vaccines, not only the vaccines but also the antibodies and the smart cells that people get when they actually get covid or they get the vaccines, maybe don't have as long as a shelf life as we thought originally. certainly, it did not appear to be what's going on with covid. so many people got the vaccine six or nine months ago and we are seeing some breakthrough cases there. is the shelf life a little shorter than what we expected? >> it's as complicated issue, joe. i don't think there is a yes or no answer there. antibodies, you can draw blood and you can look in the serum or the plasma. we do have in the body something a little more difficult and inconvenience to measure because there is more technology. memory b. cells that'll whine up making the antibodies. the antibody level links pretty well with the level of protection. regardless of what laboratory parameters you use, when you see people who have been vaccinated and you look over and see the level of protection starting to wane, that's the trigger for getting the booster. get it backup there and hopefully give it even more durability than you see. >> we hope that we don't have to keep coming back every eight months to a year or so to give people a boost. it's conceivable that may be the case. we are hoping we get the right regiment which is ultimately going to be the first two shots, followed several months later by a boost. i hope that gets us to the point where we want to be for durable periods of time. >> let me ask you where we are right now, doctor, it seems in the first wave, first nine or ten months or so, i didn't know many people personally who would have covid and have a real battle with covid and we sort of shelter in place for the most part protecting our kids and mica's mom and our loved ones. a lot of people did that. i saw a friend that i have not soon in about six months yesterday. i said how are you doing and did you get covid and i am finding more and more people are saying yes, i did and it's because of the delta variant. it's just crazy how many people i now know in the delta variant phase of this disease gotten so many friends and so many loved ones. a lot of serious cases. are we doing better with infections than we were a month or two ago. were we moving in the same direction? >> i think you gaifr the greatest endorsement of why it's so important for people toll get vaccinated. we are dealing with the delta variant, and it's ability to transmit from person to person. it's much more efficient than the variant we were dealing with six or seven or eight months ago. about 95% of the variants that we are delta variant. about 170 countries throughout the world have a dominant variant called delta. it's a bad actor and pushes all the other variant on the side. that's the reason why you are seeing a lot of people now who are trying to not get infected or getting infected underscores firmly and why it's so important to get your initial vaccinations and when your time comes up according to the guidelines of the cdc to get the booster vaccination. >> good morning, dr. fauci, it's willie geist. i am sure you are frustrated of the vaccination rates. like the report we saw icus and emergency room are completely over run. you have 70 million eligible americans who have not gotten a shot. people in alabama saying i love you. they heard from people like you and still not getting it. if that remains true. what does it mean for how we get through this and how we get out of this in this country? >> willie, it's going to make it that much difficult. as we know it's the people who are unvaccinated that are putting themselves as risk and danger and family. in directly the entire community by allowing the virus essentially free range for people to spread and opening the gateway to get more variants. that's the reason why you are seeing local mandates, for example, universities and colleges which is saying if you are not vaccinated, you will not be able to attend class in person. in realtime. >> and many, many organizations and businesses are doing the same thing. i know there is always this push back against mandates but sometimes really for the good of the community and the good of society. you really have to do that is be very difficult. we go into the late fall and early winter where you will see people indoors and complicating and inflating with influenza season and other respiratory illnesses. >> these are things that are preventable merely by getting v vaccinated. >> you got 70 million people who heard this message for months and months are rejecting it. i don't think covid is as bad as people are saying etc. it certainly when the virus and vaccine for kids to be available, you are not going to give it to your kids. that's one of the concerns, i did want to ask you something we reported on. pfizer reporting o f a study for a bill, oral medication that sometimes down the road could be taken if you think you have been exposed to covid, it could mitigate the effect and what more do you know about that? >> is it promising in your eyes. >> it's a direct, it blocks the replication components of the virus. >> it's not an anty body. >> it's similar to the thing that we developed very successfully over the years for hiv and hepatitis c. what you were referring to that was announced by pfizer is something that could be given, it's called preexposure. if i am in a family and someone got infected and i am there with the family, prevent me from getting the virus. you take a certain number of this bill. we want to prove it that it works. >> those are very important contribution. >> dr. fauci, if you have any idea how children are doing. with the delta variant being highly transmissible and children being back in school for a few weeks especially in the south, are the numbers up taking in terms of -- fans? >> look at just the fact that when you are dealing the delta variant which i mentioned a moment ago is highly transmissible. that means for everybod children and adults. you will see more children in the hospitals and more children in icu. you can go back to school safely if you surround children or people vaccinated of all the ones and teachers and people with personnel in schools and do the kind of mask wearing that the cdc recommends that we can get the kids back to school safely if those parameters are met. >> also, some news crossing on this, dr. fauci, the drug maker pfizer announced this morning they submitted initial data from the trial of covid-19 vaccinations for children, age 5 to 11 to the food and drug administration and they are seeking emergency use authorization, what do you make of this. vaccines obviously seem to be on road safe. >> the vccines shown to be effective, getting in the arms of children from 11 down to 5. the fda, you would never want to get ahead of their judgment. the next few weeks, they'll examine that data and hopefully they'll get the okay so we can start vaccinating children, hopefully before the end of october. >> wow. dr. anthony fauci, thank you once again very much for everything you do and for being on the show this morning. >> and there seems to be a widening partisan gap in the death toll from the delta variant. the new york times posted this chart showing average daily covid deaths in the united states. in counties where donald trump received at least 70% of the vote in 2020, the virus killed 47,000 people. in counties where trump won less than 32% of the votes, the number is about 10 out of every 100,000. >> jean, we have been saying for a year and a half that donald trump and first donald trump and his supporters and the virus does not care whether you are a republican or democrat, it's not about politics. it's about medicine. this is about your health, please take care of yourself and unfortunately, it's politicized. it has been politicized by people who decided since donald trump said it was nothing more than a flu or since donald trump was trying to undermine it from the very beginning saying there is only one person coming in from china that they were just going to ignore science, going to ignore medicine and going to ignore their doctors and there is a terrible tragic toll to the politicalization of a pandemic. >> yes, it's worst. and it's tragic. the whole thing is weird, joe, it was under the trump administration that you know the administration provided the funding and the commitments to speed the development and production of the vaccines and so this ought to be like hugely popular in trump's country but it's not. the former president has undermined one of the few good things he actually did in office and continues to undermine it by not convincing the people who supported him to get vaccinated. it's just tragic when you hear about deaths of people you know. people you knew who just didn't get the vaccine. it's a preventable death and people going into the hospitals and with covid and can i have the vaccine now? it's too late. it does not work that way. just get the vaccines and you won't die from covid. i don't know what to be simpler and i don't understand how red states are sort of caught up in -- you can almost call it a death toll. i don't know what else you want to call it, this denial of the obvious reality, you know, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people who have died. over 700,000 americans have died. >> if that's not enough to convince you to protect yourself, i don't know what would be. >> if you look at that graph again, that shows a gut-wrenching national tragedy. these people were lied to and told by the president that it was going to go away and by their media filters this is a hoax and don't get the vaccines and don't trust it or whether they are watching cable news or listening. >> those people being large part are victims who were lied to how serious this disease is. >> that's well-said, willie, antiviolence of strange existence before donald trump. he threw a match on the gasoline. >> he down played its seriousness and his word to amplify by the conservative media. he got his own vaccine and off camera. >> president biden did it in the white house, no one saw it. it's been interesting the last few days and talking to people around him that a few weeks ago, he started talking more about it. >> there was never a full defense but he keeps talking about it. >> in a rally in alabama, he got booed. he focused far more on that concept. well, it's personal freedom. you can take it or not take it. his rally the other night didn't mention it at all. it shows trump is so concerned of his base, the minority of his base, people who are saying we won't take the vaccines. he's modulaing his own comment. he can push some people out there who are refusing to get the vaccine. now he's not even saying that anymore because he does not want to disrupt his followers. >> he never heard boos in one of those rallies. we should point out mitch mcconnell said again and again you need to go get the vaccine. i got the vaccine and mitch mcconnell got the booster yesterday and among republicans been on the forefront of the push to get people vaccinated. let's turn to two presidents ago. president obama and michelle obama is expected to break ground. >> shaq, good morning, what are we expecting to see today? >> reporter: this is a ceremony is supposed to happen years ago. it was held up with legal challenges and political challenges and lawsuits that went all the way up to the supreme court. after several years of fights, they're finally celebrating their ceremonial ground-breaking today. we can expect to see a smaller ground breaking that you would normally have a president like this. there is not going to be that large crowd that you would normally expect. this will be live stream on obama.org. we'll expect to hear from the former president and michelle obama and also some local leaders here in chicago. and mayor lightfoot is expected to speak as well. we heard from the former president that he's not trying to be nostalgic about this. he wants to focus on the future and people who wants to engage in the direct examination. -- conversation. >> the thing i figure i can do best or most important for me to do would be to think about how to inspire recruit and train and mentor and motivate the next generation of leaders. you know, the same energy that we tapped into '08, that's still out there. >> reporter: we are learning more of what this presidential center will look like. right here on the south side of chicago is going to be about 19 acres. you hear them describing it as a campus, you will see sledding hills and bike trails and a real place they're trying to engage the community with people to come down to the south side and invest in the south side of this city. that's something you hear from the former president and his advisers talk about and highlighting a lot in the past couple of days. we got an idea of what the main building will look like. 235 foot tower that will have multiple floors. we'll start off on the ground floor that'll focus on the former president and the first lady. where are they coming. and even a little bit indonesia there and then they'll focus on the administration. the challenges of the administration faces what actions and successes, what successes administration saw? and we'll have a full scale replica of the oval office that president obama served in washington d.c. still ahead on "morning joe," dick durbin is criticized for blocking a bill. he's comparing it to going out of a restaurant without paying the bill. first, senator hirono is standing by. she joins us next on "morning joe." next on "morning joe. this is the new world of work. each day looks different than the last. but whatever work becomes... the servicenow platform will make it just, flow. whether it's finding ways to help you serve your customers, orchestrating a safe return to the office... wait. an office? what's an office? or solving a workplace challenge that's yet to come. whatever the new world of work takes your business, the world works with servicenow. vo: just getting by, it's an ongoing struggle. that's why president biden and democrats in congress have a plan to lower costs for america's working families. lower costs of healthcare premiums and the price of prescription drugs. pay less for electric bills by moving to clean energy. and do it all by making the ultra-wealthy pay their fair share of taxes. it'd be a win for the everyday american family. right when they could really use one. congress, let's get this done. (upbeat pop music throughout) my retirement plan with voya keeps me moving forward... even after paying for this. love you, sweetheart they guide me with achievable steps that give me confidence. this is my granddaughter...she's cute like her grandpa. voya doesn't just help me get to retirement... ...they're with me all the way through it. come on, grandpa! later. got grandpa things to do. aw, grandpas are the best! well planned. well invested. well protected. voya. be confident to and through retirement. the best things america makes are the things america makes out here. the history she writes in her clear blue skies. the legends she births on home town fields. and the future she promises. when we made grand wagoneer, proudly assembled in america, we knew no object would ever rank with the best things in this country. but we believed we could make something worthy of their spirit. baaam. internet that doesn't miss a beat. but we believed we could make that's cute, but my internet streams to my ride. adorable, but does yours block malware? nope. -it crushes it. pshh, mine's so fast, no one can catch me. big whoop! mine gives me a 4k streaming box. -for free! that's because you all have the same internet. xfinity xfi. so powerful, it keeps one-upping itself. can your internet do that? three top defense officials will testify before a senate committee today to discuss last month's u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan, joint chief mark milley and lloyd austin and kenneth mckenzie. ahead of today's hearing, we are learning be details that kenneth mckenzie gave the taliban leaders which they ignored. mckenzie told the taliban to keep their forces out of kabul until the u.s. finished its withdrawal of americans and hour allies. if not, he said the group would be met with u.s. air strikes. despite reportedly agreeing to those terms, the taliban ignored the warning. and rolled into kabul the next day, no military actions was taken despite the threat from mckenzie. joining us now, senator mazie hirono of hawaii. it's very good to have you oen the show, senator. i am curious of what questions you have on all the aspects of u.s. mission in afghanistan including the suicide bombing at the airport and the drone strikes that killed ten people including seven children. >> the three witnesses will be asked questions of all of those events that occurred. we know it was a chaotic situation. what i expect from the three witnesses will be frank, truth. and their reasoning behind remains. >> first the mess withdrawal from the airport and the suicide bombing and drone strikes. what questions that you would like to know more about? >> all of those. we saw a chaotic equation. keep in mind they still got 124 people in afghanistan and the mission continues and at the same time what i am interested in is this is the 20 years and i agree to find colleagues that there should be an independent commission to really assess the beginning, middle and of the 20 year endless war. there will be a lot of focus on the evacuation but let's keep them on. >> good morning, jonathan lemire, it's great to see you today. general milley has been in the news a lot lately obviously in the book written by woodward. if something were to want in the final days of president trump he'll try to give the chinese heads up. are you concerned this does not show into a show trial. >> anybody who sat on the committee as i have should know these military won't come milk the mill. communications are critical with our chinese counter parts and our russian counter parts because we need to avoid any miscalculation. they should know this kinds of communications are very important. >>. >> are you concerned of republicans trying to make this political gain and do you think that general milley conducted himself appropriately and the other part is allegations. and he has been working with journalists sort of help their stories and shape their narratives? >>. >> frankly i have found general milley to be the kind of person who will get to the constitution and is own responsibility of the joint chief. i am going to ask him various questions but i am not going to be in the kind of position of republicans who don't like to hold anybody particularly former president trump accountable for anything. their position are very much political and motivated. i am interested in getting the truth of what happened and the reason behind the decisions that were made in afghanistan, during the evacuations. >> senator hirono let's move to the senate's bill right now. you are talking about republicans who you have so disagree with on major issues over the past five years. some of them pertaining to the core of our democracy. >>. >> the republicans in the senate were given a chance to do the right thing last night to vote and lift the ceiling. they were given a chance to do the right thing but sure enough they did not. >> aspiring of downfall and that's not something that the democrats obviously want to see. >> it has to be a way forward. >> by the way, micah, we should not be having a debate about the debt ceiling because a huge part of the death was occurred during trump years. >> that added a lot for the debt that so meanwhile mitch mcconnell is saying it's not our problem. it's amazing how irresponsible they are being and not usual. >> senator mazie hirono. >> coming up, anita hill was leading the charge of sexual harassment. my conversation is next on "morning joe." is next on "morning joe." vo: taking on climate change. this is our moment to get it right and here's how we do it- by putting the american auto worker on the job. building the electric cars and trucks that take us where we need to go without the pollution that's warming the planet. the cars we love, the trucks we depend on, all made right here in america by union auto workers. more electric vehicles, that's how we build a clean energy future, that's how we take on climate change. helen knew exercise could help her diabetes... but she didn't know what was right for her. no. nope. no way. but then helen went from no to know with freestyle libre 14 day, now she knows what activity helps lower her glucose. and can see what works best for her. take the mystery out of your glucose levels, and lower your a1c. now you know. freestyle libre 14 day. now covered by medicare for those who qualify. bogeys on your six, limu. freestyle libre 14 day. they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ you're driving innovation. you're racing to the cloud. you need to do it securely. that's why palo alto networks developed prisma cloud - an integrated platform that secures your cloud environment end to end. used by the world's largest organizations, prisma cloud provides the cyber security you need from code to cloud. so you can get cloud security right, the first time around. we've got next. i was injured in a car crash. i had no idea how much my case was worth. i called the barnes firm. when a truck hit my son, i had so many questions about his case. i called the barnes firm. it was the best call i could've made. your case is often worth more than insuran call the barnes firm to find out i could've made. what your case could be worth. we will help get you the best result possible. ♪ the barnes firm, injury attorneys ♪ call one eight hundred,est resul eight million ♪ 42 past the hour, a live look at the white house, the sun is coming up over washington this morning. nearly three decades ago, much of the country was trans fixed by the testimony of a young african-american law professor concerning the condition fir confirmation of a nominee. anita hill experienced she was -- for many, it was the first time hearing a public account of harassment, something so many experienced themselves while thomas was ultimately confirmed to the supreme court, hills testimony left a lasting impact on this nation that is still evidence today. she's now back in the spotlight once again this time with a brand few book. joining us now, educator, legal scholar and advocate, she's the author of the new book believing to end gender violence. senator, i appreciate you joining us this morning. i would like to start by going very broad and pulling back 20,000 feet that you can first of all for our viewers to define gender violence and where are we for the joining? >> you know i am talking about violence and some form of assaults and sexual harassments and rape. it's a big category and i hesitate to list because i know that i am going to miss something. the main point is that what i am talking about is violence directed to individuals because of their gender. >> it includes sexual harassment in that. >> absolutely. >> that's where i started with this issue. i was hearing from people from all over and including men, i realized that sexual harassment was really only one component. gender violence is a range of behaviors and it has tremendous impact because of that alone. the range of behaviors it covers. >> tell me about the title, "believing," that's a powerful title and it's timely. can you talk about why you entitle the book "believing"? >> the book is about my journey as we look at gender violence and believing that we deserve to do better and believing that we can do better and solve this problem and we can change our ways and acknowledge that this is a crisis level problem that is impacting all of us, not just direct victims and survivors but it impacts our families and impacts our neighborhoods and impacts our nation. >> where do you think we stand in terms of addressing the issue of sexual harassments in the workplace and especially as it pertains to equality and equal pay? >> well, we know that 50% of women say that they have been harassed in the workplace. and we also know that 50% of those women who have been harassed will either leave their job or change job or change their entire career because of the problem. we have only begun to address this issue. one of the things occur to me as a lawyer and scholar and a lawyer associated with a law firm is that we can do a lot with the laws and court cases. unfortunately, we can't do everything to make the change. the problem is not only a legal problem. we know that many times the civil system as well as the criminal system really fails individuals who come forward. but, we also know that it's a cultural problem. >> where does due process stand in the concept of trying to make head way in the issue of sexual harassment because i feel like in the me too age, it almost becomes a dirty word. in law, there are limits to what the law can do, correct? >> well, absolutely. let me step back for a minute. when we have still even with the law that we have, we still have comments that are gender slurs that -- and we have touching going on in our workplaces. we have courts about this behavior determines these are stray remarks and that's nothing that the law can do about. we need to fix that problem. that's not an issue. it does not have anything to do with due process. our systems are set up to protect everyone's rights, whether it's our criminal justice system or criminal system. we are not doing enough frankly to protect individuals and we are not doing enough in terms of our processes and policies and procedures to bring people into the systems that could get them help. >> right. >> i think that's a really great point that we are protecting and being able to use your voice and protecting and being able to speak out, making women feel like they can without any type of retributions. >> and retaliation is a huge problem where 60% of the people who complain about sexual harassment will face retaliation. now, what we are talking about is people just wanting to do their jobs. we are talking about people wanting to do their jobs, trying to do their jobs but being kept from doing their jobs because of this behavior. again, that's only one aspect of what i deal with in "believing." what i want to do is help us understand how sexual harassment in my experience is really connected with the experiences of so many different people. different kinds of behaviors. one of the first calls i got that helps me recognize it was a call from a man who had been an incense victim. what he told me the way the senate responded to my complaint was the way his family responded when he had complaints about incense he was experiencing. that connection is there. if we don't address all the problems, i don't think we'll ever get to anyone one specific behavior. we got to go to its roots. >> it's a example moving forward, the cuomo investigation, how do you feel that went? >> i think that was a perfect example of what i'm talking about. what we had with letisha who ran what i believe, perceived on its face and on all paperwork, an independent investigation into the charges that were brought against then governor cuomo. she had witnesses come in from both sides, both parties, and she detailed her investigation, she detailed the standards. she articulated exactly what was said, why she reached the conclusions that she did, and she made a very public announcement about it. i think that did away with so many of these claims that you hear after public charges are made. like, you know, you hear people say, well, it's just a he said/she said. well, no, what you have, billy, is not only a full investigation in the cuomo case, but you have a full report, disclosure and transparency. and ultimately we have accountable, and that's what we are looking for. >> finally, can you tell us about lillian miles lewis, who in your preface, you really credit with being your inspiration. >> she was a dear friend of mine. many people may not know her by name, but she was the wife of john lewis, who died before he did. i met her in 1992 very shortly after the clarence thomas hearings. what she encouraged me to do is find my own voice. she also let me know, have a platform that i had as an african-american woman to be able to talk about these issues, and to shed some light on them as an african-american woman, as a lawyer, as a teacher, with something that i should not take for granted. and so i believe that this book is really a tribute to her because had i not had that conversation 30 years ago, i might have just decided to go back being a commercial law professor. >> the new book is "believing: our 30-year journey to end gender violence." anita hill, thank you so much for being on with us. >> thank you for having me. "morning joe" is back in a moment. subway® has so much new it didn't fit in our last ad. like the new artisan italian and hearty multigrain bread. it's the eat fresh refresh™ at subway®. it's so much new there's no time for serena! wait, what?! sorry, we don't even have time to say they were created by world class bakers! oh, guess we did! seriously?! my bad. bipolar depression. it made me feel like i was trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of people living with bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place... ...and be hard to manage. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. latuda is not for everyone. call your doctor about unusual mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. elderly dementia patients on latuda have an increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, as these may be life threatening... ...or uncontrollable muscle movements, as these may be permanent. these are not all the serious side effects. now i'm back where i belong. ask your doctor about latuda and pay as little as $0 for your first prescription. this is the new world of work. and pay as little as $0 each day looks different than the last. but whatever work becomes... the servicenow platform will make it just, flow. whether it's finding ways to help you serve your customers, orchestrating a safe return to the office... wait. an office? what's an office? or solving a workplace challenge that's yet to come. whatever the new world of work takes your business, the world works with servicenow. it's moving day. and while her friends are doing the heavy lifting, jess is busy moving her xfinity internet and tv services. it only takes about a minute. wait, a minute? but what have you been doing for the last two hours? ...delegating? oh, good one. move your xfinity services without breaking a sweat. xfinity makes moving easy. go online to transfer your services in about a minute. get started today. new york city. live picture looking downtown from our building here at 30 rock. the fbi reports violent crime in america rose in 2020 for the first time in four years, especially the number of murders. nbc news justice correspondent pete williams has more. >> reporter: the weekend brought philadelphia a grim new record, passing 400 murders so far this year, 60 more than in all of last year. >> the situation now is causing philadelphians to be frightened, to be scared. often scared for their own family members, scared for themselves. >> reporter: it's an alarming trend in american cities of all sizes. murder soaring in portland, oregon and jackson, mississippi. the fbi revealed murder jumped 29% in 2020 compared to the year before, the biggest increase since it began tracking the data six decades ago. overall violent crime was up almost 6%. but it isn't just street crime that drove the numbers. the fbi says a big share of the murder victims were killed at home. experts who study these trends say two factors have formed a deadly combination, more people forced to stay home because of covid lockdowns and the huge increase in gun sales, especially to first-time buyers. >> these guns that were purchased in 2020 were extensively just for the sake to protect the family against intruders. unfortunately, that may be the reason for the purchase, but ultimately too often they're used against a family member. >> reporter: roughly three-quarters of murders in 2020 were committed with a gun, a new high today. officers say fewer officers on the street and more offenders released on bail. one bright spot, property crimes were down for the 18th year in a row. one reason, with fewer people at home, more houses are burglarized. still ahead -- the vaccine mandate for hospital workers in new york state kicked in at midnight. how the governor plans to keep hospitals at full strength if some workers walk off the job. we're coming right back. ♪♪ vo: just getting by, it's an ongoing struggle. that's why president biden and democrats in congress have a plan to lower costs for america's working families. lower costs of healthcare premiums and the price of prescription drugs. pay less for electric bills by moving to clean energy. and do it all by making the ultra-wealthy pay their fair share of taxes. it'd be a win for the everyday american family. right when they could really use one. congress, let's get this done. who pays more for prescription drugs than anyone else in the world? americans do. and whose tax dollars does big pharma use to develop those same drugs? that's right. our tax dollars. it's a big pharma scam. they get rich and we get ripped off. and it's why pharma is spending millions on lies and scare tactics to stop a plan that lets medicare negotiate lower prices. congress, stop the big pharma scam. let medicare negotiate lower prices. i've spent centuries evolving with the world. congress, stop the big pharma scam. that's the nature of being the economy. observing investors choose assets to balance risk and reward. with one element securing portfolios, time after time. gold. agile and liquid. a proven protector. an ever-evolving enabler of bold decisions. an asset more relevant than ever before. gold. your strategic advantage. "the late show" is ready to project joe biden has would be arizona and, there, joseph robin biden is still president of the united states. we go live to election headquarters to our number cruncher, steve kornacki, still standing by since last november. steve, what do you have for us? [ laughter ] damn it! i told you! >> come on, man! >> he would just have a beard, but he would still be going. >> that's kind of rough. >> love our kornacki. >> my gosh, it was a rough weekend -- >> exactly. >> -- rough weekend for red sox fans, willie. my little jack was -- we were stuck on this all day yesterday. i did a podcast. i actually had a nobel prize winner on and instead barnacle jumps in and lupica and lemire and i talked about the red sox for 30 minutes. >> it's what we do. >> i had little jack. i convinced myself, there it is, yankees/red sox, like i said would happen all along. i had little jack -- >> little jack? >> he's 6'2" now. every sunday morning he comes up to me and says pa-pa, can we watch the show sunday before we go to church? and sitting there in the seersucker jacket with white box or crew sweater in the winter. and i said yes, yes. it made him a little bit happy for a little bit on sunday but that night you beat us again! you beat us again the third night, broke our hearts again. afterwards little jack said, pa-pa, will we ever be happy again? >> oh, my gosh. >> i said, yes, jack, but we'll never be young again. that's how intense it's gotten around our house, willie. it was a bad, bad weekend. >> i confess, i haven't seen jack in a while but i don't know when he started talking like a world war ii era italian boy, wanting to go to pa-pa to make sure it's going to be okay. >> jack is 6'2" -- >> really deep voice. so cute. >> he will be 6'5" in about two weeks. he will be 30 and grab me by the sweater and throw me against the wall. oh, man, stop using that voice! >> listen, yankees had a good weekend. it was the weekend giancarlo stanton became a yankee. launched on lansdowne street. but, but, but, we're only up one game. the best of the three remaining teams in the wild card, toronto blue jays host the yankees tonight for a decisive three-game set. we will learn a lot by thursday night. >> and we're also pretty lucky, lemire. luck is the only thing that's going to get us through this. our schedule is fairly easy. i'm sure we can blow that. but we have three with the orioles and then three with the nats. nothing like what the yankees have. >> easy schedules have not stopped us before, joe. we're certainly very capable of not finishing this season where we want. yes, they're our best friend right now, the encounter this last week. blue jays look great. take it with injuries to the pitching staff, but they're home. we'll all canadians the next three days. we're all canadians these days, o, canada, we stand on guard for thee. and they have two last-place teams. if they win five, they're in. four, probably. anything less than that, not gonna happen. >> okay, thanks, guys. let's get to the news now, house speaker nancy pelosi has changed course, telling democrats they will vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill before reconciliation is done. pelosi announced the change of plans in a democratic caucus meeting last night. she originally promised to link the two bills together, refusing to schedule a vote on the senate-passed infrastructure bill until reconciliation was ready as well. according to a senior democratic aide, speaker pelosi blamed the reversal on the senate. quote, i told all of you that we wouldn't go on to the bipartisan infrastructure bill until we have the bill passed for the senate. we were on schedule to do that ten days ago. a week ago when i heard the news that this number had to come down, it all changed. so our approach -- it all changed so our approach had to change. it isn't about diminishing the importance of reconciliation. the chair of the congressional progressive caucus told nbc last night, progressives need to see a reconciliation bill written with agreed-upon numbers before the group votes for the infrastructure bill. that vote is expected this thursday. still a little friction inside the party. >> i mean, there always is, mika. this is the way things work out and when people have been saying for the past several months that either they would get there easily or never get there easily, nancy pelosi wasn't going to be able to do it, you always had a sense this was one of the most effective speakers in our lifetime, if not the most effective speaker of our lifetime. this is just something that happens. it happens over and over again in congress. it happened with us, republicans. there was always back and forth. there were always sides saying what we weren't going to do, what we would do. and at the end of the day, we all knew we had to get on the same page and figure out a compromise. i just think that's part of this process and it's not that shocking of a process. >> so you're saying there's a chance? >> that is right, jim carrey, i'm saying there's a chance. let's bring in cofounder of punchbowl news jake sherman. jake, i would be shocked if nancy pelosi were working through this for as long as she worked through it and then put a bill on the floor and got defeated. that's just not what nancy pelosi does. it looks like she's moving towards position that a lot of people thought she would move towards, get the infrastructure bill passed and then move on and get reconciliation today. >> yeah, that's what she has to do, no question about it. at this point reconciliation is, i don't want to say weeks away, but certainly not ready by thursday. it's possible she had framework by thursday to put progressives' minds at ease, yes, it is possible that happens. joe biden needs to get involved in that. she can't do that on her own. that involves a lot of moving pieces with manchin and sinema and other pieces in the senate and house. i have to say, joe, pelosi doesn't schedule a vote like this, revise and extend, so to speak, unless she either has the votes or believes she will have the vote. i am -- this is probably the highest wire legislative act in nancy pelosi's leadership dating back to 1806. and i have been covering her pretty much since 2009. i do believe this is difficult. and for a few reasons. progressives are looking at manchin and sinema and saying why are we going to give up the only legislative insurance we have when at some point this is going to task? s there's just a lot of moving pieces and a lot of uncertainty how this will pay out. >> jake, given the realities of the congress right now and how slim the margins are for democrats, wasn't this inevitable? was there ever a world to pass $3.5 trillion spending or any number in the trillions of spending in the reconciliation package and tie it to the infrastructure bill that's just over a trillion dollars? and now what does nancy pelosi tell the progressives who wanted that to be the order of things? what does she give them to say okay, we'll go along with this, vote on the structure bill first, but we need to come back to it. what does she tell them during those conversations? >> too bad. >> there you go. she says we have to work with the reality that we have, not the reality that we want. that's something we keep coming back to in this governing coalition, where there's a three-seat majority in the house and even senate, is that unfortunately they don't have 20-seat majorities anymore like they did in 2006 and 2008. that's just not the government they have. what they say is -- she doesn't say this directly, and i will say this and a lot of democrats are telling me this, joe biden's approval ratings are sinking. he had problems in afghanistan. he's at a tough point in his presidency, and he needs a win. democrats said that in the meeting last night. i mean, they said we need to deliver joe biden. i think colin allred of texas said we need to deliver joe biden a victory. what progressives would say is we have time to deliver him a victory and it doesn't have to be right now. those are the very complicated dynamics coming out at this moment. >> jake, stay with us. we want to get your take on another huge issue weighing over capitol hill, the debt ceiling. the latest on that fight next on "morning joe." ♪♪ (vo) this is a place for ambition. a forge of progress. a unicorn in training. a corner to build a legacy. a vision for tomorrow. a fresh start. a blank canvas. a second act. a renewed company culture. a temple for ideas. and a place to make your mark. loopnet. the most popular place to find a space. ♪ i'm a reporter for the new york times. if you just hold it like this. yeah. ♪ i love finding out things that other people don't want me to know. mm-hmm. [beep] i just wanted to say... ♪ find yourself in these situations and see who you are. and that's just part of the bargain. ♪ in business, setbacks change everything. an so get comcastart business internet and add securityedge. it helps keep your network safe by scanning for threats every 10 minutes. and unlike some cybersecurity options, this helps protect every connected device. yours, your employees' and even your customers'. so you can stay ahead. get started with a great offer and ask how you can add comcast business securityedge. plus for a limited time, ask how to get a $500 prepaid card when you upgrade. call today. senate republicans are making good on their promise not to vote to raise the debt ceiling. every senate republican yesterday voted against the measure that would fund the government and make sure the country does not default on its debt. republicans argue democrats should pass it themselves threw reconciliation because the gop doesn't support future spending bills. >> so let me make it abundantly clear one more time. we will support a claim for resolution and will ploy provide republican votes for raising the debt limit. there's no chance republicans will help lift democrats' credit limit so they can immediately steamroll through a socialist binge that will hurt families and help china. >> the republican party has now become the party of default, the party that says america doesn't pay its debts. keeping the government open and preventing a default is vital to our country's future, and we'll be taking further action to prevent this from happening this week. >> we certainly know republicans are raging hypocrites, especially in the era of trump, and we're obviously still in the era of trump. here's a party that spent like drunken socialists -- talk about socialists -- this republican party spent like drunken socialists over the past five years. they racked up record levels of deficits, record level of debts. the bills were donald trump and mitch mcconnell approved, the budgets, the largest budgets in the history of the republic. let me say that again. the republican budgets were the largest budgets in the history of the republic and ran up record deficits and record debt. and that's the bill actually that has come due now. we're not talking about what happens in the future. we don't know what's going to happen in the future. you don't default at your bank for debts you may accrue in the future. you default because of what you have already done and right now, jonathan lemire, this is trump's death, mcconnell debt, republican party's debt again during their socialist spending spree. admit it, if you're calling people socialists, like trump calling people socialists, mcconnell calling people socialists, socialists are big spenders, right? the republicans spent more. i know this is hard for people to figure out, republicans spent more money on budgets over four trump years than any president before. l.b.j., f.d.r., you name it. jimmy carter, bill clinton. you pick the democrat. you pick the person that was lied about, would be called a socialist, republicans spent more money. so now they don't want to pay their own bill and they say we're not going to pay our own bill because democrats are socialists. let me ask you, lemire, when we go to fenway, can we try that? we can order a whole lot of food in the mc club, if they let us in, and just kind piling the food up. bring us your best wine! i don't want that whiskey! bring us an ortiz signed jersey! $50,000 bills stacked up high and then they come, mr. lemire, here's your bill. can they turn and say, we're not going to pay this because barnacle is a socialist? that's what mitch mcconnell is doing right now. that's what the republican party is doing right now. they're telling americans they're going to let the country default on its debt, which would be economically devastating because they're not going to pay their own bill. >> first of all, we would need barnacle's help even to get in that club. you and i can't get in on our own. >> true that. >> i think the argument democrats have been making correctly this was debt racked up under president trump, debt from both parties, and republicans voted to raise the debt ceiling repeatedly, when a republican was in office and democrats have done that when a republican was in office. so there's the extraordinary and accurate claim of hypocrisy here, the nation could default for the first time. we heard the warnings in the financial markets. we her treasury secretary yellen say how devastating this would be for the u.s. and its global reputation and economy at home were this to happen. simply, it's the republicans. we all who do this in washington and new york and watch this, we sometimes fall into the game of sort of admiring or noting mitch mcconnell's tactics. oh, he knows how to play the game. and that may be the case. but it's also hypocrisy and should be called out as such that he won't do, not just on this, but so many issues, he won't put the head of the country first. it's always politics and tactics. now this is a time of crisis. it just adds to what's on the plate for those in congress and complicates matters here with the reconciliation bill, with the structure bill, with the threat of the government potentially shutting down early morning friday. i know there's some belief, people i have talked to that there will be a temporary solution to avoid that, at least tough talk, but there's a lot here and a lot can go really wrong. there's a lack of trust with the parties involved. when you play it this close to the deadline, walking this thin of a tight roep, there's a chance something could go wrong. white house officials are nervous and we should expect president biden to more forcefully inject himself in the coming days. >> help our viewers separate this out. this is obviously a different question from the one we were talking about with the infrastructure bill and separating those pieces of legislation from the $3.5 trillion spending package. this now we're talking about the debt ceiling and avoiding the shutdown that would come midnight thursday into friday morning. what republicans have said is give us a clean bill, we will help you fund the government, we don't want to shut down either but we're not going along with the debt ceiling vote. how does this play out in the next couple of days? >> last night, willie, the senate rejected a democratic bill to raise the debt ceiling and fund the government and republican alternative that would have just funded the government. it will be easy to fund the government. we should avoid a shutdown. if we don't, it's because of some bizarre, unforeseen procedural hurdle that we can't really -- i don't know how that can happen. plenty of ways to avoid a government shutdown. but the real test, as you know, is within the next month. we expect the debt ceiling will be reached by the middle to the end of october, some time between let's call the 17th to the 25th is when most people assume. and that has to be carried by republicans and democrats under regular order, 60 votes in the senate. and mitch mcconnell has been saying for two, three months, he's not going to do it. there are alternative scenarios. they can amend the fast-track reconciliation bill to lift the debt ceiling. it might run into procedural hurdles. i don't believe it would. that would take two weeks so democrats will have to get going on that soon. then they can unlock the procedure which lifts the debt ceiling with 50 votes, party line democratic vote. schumer and pelosi and other democrats have said up until now they're not willing to do that. that seems to be the only option. yes, mitch mcconnell being hypocritical, no doubt republicans are being hypocritical here. but they've said it for months, democrats have the tools to do it and should do. they're right on that narrow point, democrats can do it and they probably will. doesn't make it any less hypocritical or ridiculous, but that's just the only way out at this point. and by the way, one more note here, nancy pelosi said last week for the first time she cast doubt on whether the debt ceiling should even exist, which other people have said in recent years, it violates the 14th amendment the united states will keep its debts honest and in control. so i think we'll see that argument play out in the future, although i imagine it will be very difficult to get rid of the debt limit. >> jake sherman, thank you so much. still ahead -- a vaccine mandate is coming to the largest school district in the nation. how new york city is poised to make sure its public educators are protected from the virus. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ♪♪ vo: the damage it's causing is undeniable... climate change. and with the build back better act, congress can tackle it head on. with tax credits for clean energy companies that create millions of new jobs... ...and ramp up new technology and clean energy manufacturing. it means families pay less for utilities... ...and america becomes the global leader in clean energy it's time to build back better. and that means taking on climate change. with clean energy jobs congress: let's get this done oh! are you using liberty mutual's coverage customizer tool? so you only pay for what you need. sorry? limu, you're an animal! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ this is the new world of work. each day looks different than the last. but whatever work becomes... the servicenow platform will make it just, flow. whether it's finding ways to help you serve your customers, orchestrating a safe return to the office... wait. an office? what's an office? or solving a workplace challenge that's yet to come. whatever the new world of work takes your business, the world works with servicenow. now to new york city's vaccine mandate for adults working in its public schools. it can proceed as scheduled. a federal appeals panel decided yesterday. the second u.s. circuit court of appeals in manhattan lifted a block of the city's schools mandate put in place last friday by an appeals judge. individuals working in the nation's largest school district now have until this friday to get at least their first dose of the covid vaccine after mayor bill de blasio extended the original deadline. according to the mayor, roughly 97% of principals and about 95% of teachers have been vaccinated. the mandate affects nearly 150,000 school employees. that's big news. meanwhile, as of midnight this morning, new york state's vaccine mandate for hospital workers kicked in. the mandate requires the more than 600,000 employees and public and private hospitals and nursing homes to have received their first dose of the covid vaccine. health care officials are now bracing for potential staff shortages due to workers refusing to comply with the vaccine mandate. if those shortages happen, new york governor kathy hochul said she will dispatch the national guard to affected facilities and would sign an executive order allowing health care professionals licensed outside of new york to practice in new york state. now that is putting down the gauntlet. >> yeah, it's great. it's great. >> health care facilities. >> who wants to send their loved ones or their parents to a hospital or a nursing home where you don't have covid shots! >> come on! >> by the way, i heard a lot of people freaking out what cuomo did regarding nursing homes. i understand that. but some of those same people are strangely mute about safety in nursing homes now that had has to do with getting a vaccine. they don't quite understand that. who would want to send their parents or loved ones to a nursing home or hospital or any facility if the people taking care of them weren't vaccinated from a plague. >> yeah, the first thing to say here is the number i think last check was 84%. this is good news, 84% of state health care workers have the vaccine. so you're looking at a 16% population holding out and not getting it. and some fields as you say, joe, whether you're working in a hospital or nursing home, the truth has to be, either get the vaccine or look for another job. maybe this isn't the line of work for you. this is too important and you're putting the health of seniors, you're putting the health of people inside the hospitals of people who may be vulnerable and at risk. and that's what they're doing in new york city and kicks in today. i had the occasion to be in the hospital with a family member, everything is fine, but you talk to the nurses in there and they want vaccinations. they want their hospitals to be safe. they're talking about as we walk down these hallways, they have the stretchers that line, back in march and april last year every single one was full in the hallway because we didn't have room. we don't want to go back to that. the mandate to most people, 84% as of yesterday, makes sense. coming up -- the second ranking senate democrat dick durbin is standing by from capitol hill. next on "morning joe." ♪♪ bipolar depression. it made me feel like i was trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of people living with bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place... ...and be hard to manage. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. latuda is not for everyone. call your doctor about unusual mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. elderly dementia patients on latuda have an increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, as these may be life threatening... ...or uncontrollable muscle movements, as these may be permanent. these are not all the serious side effects. now i'm back where i belong. ask your doctor about latuda and pay as little as $0 for your first prescription. do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy, even a term policy, for an immediate cash payment. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized that we needed a way to supplement our income. if you have one hundred thousand dollars or more of life insurance you may qualify to sell your policy. don't cancel or let your policy lapse without finding out what it's worth. visit conventrydirect.com to find out if you policy qualifies. or call the number on your screen. coventry direct, redefining insurance. >> tech: every customer has their own safelite story. this couple was on a camping trip... ...when their windshield got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service you can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ ♪♪ welcome back to "morning joe." 8:36 here on the east coast. a government shutdown looms at the end of the week midnight thursday, actually. but last night senate republicans blocked the short-term funding bill because it was connected to a raising of the debt ceiling. here's nbc news white house correspondent kelly o'donnell with more. >> reporter: president biden's political and policy legacy on the line. after his vaccine, his plans in need of a boost. >> what does it say for your agenda and presidency and vaccine on covid? >> victory was at stake. >> reporter: first facing a deadline to keep the federal government open by this friday, republicans blocking the bill to fund the government and extend the country's good credit until december. so democrats will try again. this week make-or-break decisions on the president's signature priority, a $1 trillion bipartisan infrastructure plan. and the massive climate and social program spending currently of $3.5 trillion. >> if we do that, the country is going to be in great shape. >> reporter: joe manchin is a pivotal moderate. >> i'm concerned about society moving towards a type of mentality versus rewarding mentality. >> reporter: saying it's costly. >> it's paid for by putting a debt on the next generation of americans, that's how it's paid for. >> says the guy that, along with donald trump, passed the largest budget in american history, passed the largest deficits in american history, racked up the largest federal debt in american history up until donald trump left office. let's bring in now democratic majority whip senator dick durbin of illinois. senator, of course, we know about the republicans' hypocrisy. we've been talking about it this morning and last week. that said, they will not give you a vote, they wouldn't even give you a vote to investigate an insurrection, so are democrats going to have to do this on their own? >> i hope not, because at this point the republicans are threatening a filibuster, joe, you know what that's all about, 60-vote requirement to move forward. it amazes me they would use this procedural weapon, if you will, to really jeopardize the economy of this country and its recovery period through this pandemic. remember last year, joe, when all of the bills under the trump administration before the pandemic were coming around, democrats joining republicans voting for those efforts, bill after bill after bill. bipartisan effort. the day after donald trump absconded himself from the capitol, key decision making, american rescue plan and this effort to pass the debt ceiling so we can continue to try to rebuild our economy. >> and using the filibuster, they said they will let the country default on its debt by using the filibuster for that. they used the filibuster to cover up the bipartisan bicameral investigation on the judicious acts made by people in this government on january 6th, inside and outside. they used it to stop the john lewis voting rights act. they're using the filibuster to stop any voting reform at all. at what point do democrats get real and figure out how to carve some exceptions into the filibuster just like mitch mcconnell did for supreme court justices? >> you're exactly right. and he decided to weigh the filibuster when it came to dose traditional appointments. we cannot due this as a holy sacred entity. it's being misused. no one in history saw this kind of application of it. it's become routine. 60 votes for everything. the fact you may be in a scant majority or minority really isn't going to work under the current plans to use the filibuster in this manner. >> whether are you -- when do you all have to decide whether to use reconciliation to raise the debt ceiling? >> i would like to clear that up, the notice of using reconciliation at just a casual suggestion, it's far from that. we went through the procedure and looked carefully. we're talking three to four weeks and establishing, sadly, that this is going to be the future. what a waste of time in the united states senate and house of representatives. frankly, it isn't really practical for us to consider that. it's a flip remark we hear from a lot of people on the hill. we'll go ahead and put reconciliation, not that easy. >> senator, won't you have to use reconciliation? if you already heard from republicans who say we're not going to participate in a raising of the debt ceiling to help democrats, how do you go about it without reconciliation? >> we're exploring all of our possibilities. >> what does that mean? >> there are other possibilities. >> like what? >> i'm not going to get into detail at this point. >> did you believe there's a way, a path to 60 votes to get this through? >> i believe there's a way to make certain that the filibuster is not used to cripple our economy and cost americans their jobs. and i'm going to be working to reach that goal. >> let me ask you about the other big legislative struggle, and that is $1.2 trillion infrastructure package that has been tied for many months now to the $3.5 trillion of new spending. speaker pelosi now telling the caucus we're told we have to divorce those two from each other and just vote and pass the infrastructure first. what's your view of how that's playing out? >> well, it's going to play out i think the next chapter as far as we're concerned is the president is going to be personally involved in meetings with several of our senators this week, maybe even today and we're going to get down to the bottom line here. we have to find out what we can do and pass in the senate with the support of the house of representatives and i'm hoping it's a package that helps families across america. and i want to say a word about what was mentioned earlier by kevin mccarthy. what rankles him is we're paying for the reconciliation bill by the richest and wealthiest taxes of americans. if your corporation has skated by and avoided liability or individuals found tricks and loopholes to avoid their responsibility, we're coming after them. >> senator, good morning, it's jonathan lemire. i want to go a little bit more about these two pieces of legislation. there are real divides in your party right now. a real lack of trust between some of the progressives and some of the more moderates and certainly anger we heard from those on the left about senator joe manchin for one saying he's not being reasonable. the margins are so slim here. tied in the senate, couple vote s in the house. speaker pelosi doesn't have all of the votes, though she hopes to by thursday. how do you bridge the divide by thursday? >> i've heard some of those comments but i will tell you i have been pleasantly surprised by civility among democrats even though we do disagree and continue to negotiate within our ranks to try to find a common ground. i think we can do it. i'm an optimist by nature and i think we can do it. in terms of i can't speak to the house, that's speaker pelosi's territory. but in the senate i think there's a way, and i think this week may be the pathway. >> it senator, robert kagan wrote a piece in "the washington post" this past weekend that got a lot of attention talking about the constitutional crisis that is already upon us. and whether everybody reading that, every democrat reading that, every independent-minded person reading that agreed with every one of his conclusions or not, the one thing that most agreed on is the fact state legislatures passing bills that would rip the power of certifying elections from local officials, from secretary of states, from governors, and that would allow republican state legislators to completely decertify votes they didn't like, seems to be the greatest constitutional challenge facing us moving into 2024. even some of the onus barriers they're setting up because they count the votes and decide to count the ones they like and throw up the ones they don't like. does the senate understand, do all democratic senators understand, do some republican senators understand just how dangerous this is, and that some action needs to be taken before 2022? >> i think they do. let me tell you, joe, that was a stunning article when i read it and showed it to my wife and read it again, i decided to send it to about 12, 13 of my colleagues and i wanted to make sure they didn't miss it. they came back with the same response, this is sobering and powerful. the fact we would let them gain their futures through state action is really going to undermine the fundamentals of our democracy. if we can't believe in the results of the election, then democracy is going to suffer. did you notice what happened in arizona, incidentally, on the preliminary account, the number of votes for joe biden went up in maricopa county and number of votes for donald trump went down. this ninja cyber turtles or whatever their name is didn't really do their job with bamboo ballots and the rest to prove actually trump won in arizona. he did not. and even their investigation could be sure that he didn't. >> he lost again. he just keeps losing out there. democratic majority whip and chairman of the judiciary committee senator dick durbin, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. jonathan lemire, i wonder how much the white house is focused on the most critical, again, the most critical part of the kagan article, the most critical part of the legislation passing right now, and that is the part of the legislation that is stripping the right to certify votes from secretaries of states. i think some of them are actually targeted at republican secretaries of state who were trying to do their constitutional duties, governors, even trumpy governors like brian kemp. local officials, democratic and republican alike, talking about fulton county, georgia or wayne county. michigan, where you have republicans and democrats telling donald trump's lawyers no and his henchmen no, we're not going to do your bidding. we're going to follow our constitutional duty and count every vote. i just wonder when are they going to focus on that? because one great point that kagan brought up was the fact when we talk about debt ceilings, when we talk about budgets, when we talk about reconciliation packages, those fights are within constitutional boundaries. you can be angry at the filibuster, which isn't a constitutional device, but that's within the boundaries. have that fight. have the fight over debt ceilings and other things but it's the extra constitutional battles that actually violate constitutional norms, that violate political norms in this country, that actually do cause us the greatest constitutional crisis and, again, i'll say at the top of that list, a republican legislature saying, we got angry at the republican secretary of state in georgia and the republican governor in georgia deciding who was going to win the election, so we had to just take it all upon the state legislature. the bills being proposed in arizona are absolutely frightening, to completely decertify election results if you don't like the outcome. and it's happening all across the country with trump-led republican legislatures. >> joe, i was with president biden when he was at the national constitutional center in philadelphia over the summer and gave his fiery speech denouncing the work of these republican state legislatures and pushing for voting rights to be a cause. he said the greatest test to our democracy since the civil war, and as part of that speech, did talk about this very issue, the idea of certifying who wins in the state legislatures. however, since that moment the white house has not really done anything on the issue. their focus since then obviously was the afghanistan withdrawal and now the sweeping legislative package, infrastructure and reconciliation. that's been front burner. and that's the frustration of some within the party. obviously, democrats want to get this legislation done. how, why and how big remains to be seen. we will find out in the coming days. but some believe the white house is not appropriately prioritizing voting rights, saying this is an existential threat for not only winning next year or 2024 but democracy itself, talking about disenfranchising so many americans, having their votes not count. having the will of the people be cast aside in favor of a state legislature doing its own bidding. aides i have talked to say they're aware of this frustration. this is something they want to revisit later this fall, but it's going to wait, wait until after this legislation gets through. so it's not front-burner yet and there are some within the party that wonder if it's even being used politically as a motivating tool to increase turnout in the midterms next year, as opposed to meeting it head on with sweeping legislation seemingly impossible without impossible without filibuster reform. >> on these recounts, they call them audits, they're not really as senator durbin called it the cyber ninja turtles i think he called them in arizona, that was initiated about state senate republicans. now in the state of texas you have governor greg abbott approving a recount in four counties in a state that donald trump won by about 625,000 votes. here is governor abbott on fox news with chris wallace on sunday. >> isn't it just a terrible waste of taxpayer money to have an audit in a state that everybody says went fine and that president trump won by 600,000 votes and aren't you contributing to this undermining confidence in our election process? >> i've got to make several points about this. one, the context here, and that is there are audits of every aspect of government, we have a state auditor, there is a federal auditor for the way the government operations work. businesses that are public companies are subject to an annual audit. why don't we audit everything in this world but people raise their hands in concern when we audit elections, which is fundamental to our democracy. second point, and that is that these audits that the state of texas is doing, they actually began months ago. we do have every single year including in the 2020 elections allegations of illegal voting in places in texas. >> okay. the point i would -- i would simply point out on thursday he asked for the audit and suddenly there were new audits announced in four counties by the secretary of state's office within hours of that on thursday. >> that's chris wallace with governor abbott. joe, you have governor abbott and others talking about the importance of audits and their routine. there were no audits until donald trump leaned on these governors or state senators to carry them out in places where donald trump won. these counties in texas, they're doing four counties, dallas, houston, big counties that president trump lost. even though he won handily in the state of texas he wants a recount in the places where he lost handily. >> and the reason why, people say, well, wait a second, he won the state, why would he go back? because as kagan points out, this routine, these exercises, they're not for 2020. >> right. >> they're for 2024. they're trying to figure out how to rig 2024. they're trying to dig deeper, trying to get greg abbott to use texas tax dollars to do donald trump's bidding to figure out how to steal the election in the counties that he lost, to figure out how to decertify votes in the future in the elections that he lost. jonathan lemire, again, you sit there and you go, well, wait a second, it just doesn't make sense to audit states that he won. well, it certainly does. again, if you understand that everything that every one of these governors are doing when they go back and audit, everybody that the trumpy cyber ninja turtles are trying to do, everything that's going on in these recounts, every state legislature that is trying to rip the power from republican secretaries of states or republican governors or republican local officials or democratic local officials, it is all to fix the 2024 election and rig it because they know he's not going to get the most votes so they've got to steal the election if he's going to win. >> that's it. that's the ball game. it's 2024. no one going go to overturn the election in 2020. we heard rumors, those conspiracy theories that donald trump was going to regain office in august. that didn't happen. it's not about 2020 anymore. it's about four years from now. it's about laying the groundwork for the big lie could become the big steal where they are going to, you know -- if indeed donald trump is the republican nominee and right now if he were to jump in the race he would certainly be the favorite, the overwhelming favorite, he is someone who lost the popular vote twice. he was elected once because he threaded the needle in a handful of the sort of great lakes trio of states and won it through the electoral college. the math just worked. it's going to take a similar act like that in a state like texas which he won last time we know has gone a little bluer over the years. this is about simply playing defense in states to make sure he hangs on to them, even ones that are traditionally considered republican. >> when we come back we are going to show you the best thing that happened on monday night television. it's sort of the future, i think, of sports broadcasting, a little bit of salsa, a little bit of burg flipping and a whole lot of eli and peyton. that's when we return. t loof eli and peyton. that's when we return. only payr what you need. how much money can liberty mutual save you? one! two! three! four! five! 72,807! 72,808... dollars. yep... everything hurts. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ brushing only reaches 25% of your mouth. listerine® cleans virtually 100%. helping to prevent gum disease and bad breath. never settle for 25%. always go for 100. bring out the bold™ vo: just getting by, it's an ongoing struggle. that's why president biden and democrats in congress have a plan to lower costs for america's working families. lower costs of healthcare premiums and the price of prescription drugs. pay less for electric bills by moving to clean energy. and do it all by making the ultra-wealthy pay their fair share of taxes. it'd be a win for the everyday american family. right when they could really use one. congress, let's get this done. you have to go over the top. willie, a simple country lawyer that just fell off the turn up truck. mika knows media and says those manning boys are on to something. >> peyton and eli manning, the famous quarterback brothers now retired, peyton eventually into the hall of fame. they're doing a show called "the manning cast" on monday nights in espn 2 airs in parallel to the traditional broadcast which is on espn. what the show is the game is in a big box and down the left side of the screen are the great peyton manning and the great eli manning and then often joined by friends like last night lebron james pops in, starts talking football, makes the revelation during the nba lock out ten years ago the cowboys and patriots offered him a deal to be a tight end, nick saban drops in, it's amazing watching great football minds talk through the game. they're so loose that sometimes they forget where they are, as i suspect eli did in this moment last night. >> you go to philly, i mean, you're getting the double bird right away from a nine-year-old kid. i would give the bird. can you do that? i'm sure you can blur that out, right? it's over now, double bird by a nine-year-old and they're saying things about my mom and peyton. i can't even tell you what they said about mom. >> all right. all right. sorry. earlier i did the double bird, i guess that's frowned upon so i apologize if i offended anybody. that's what a nine-year-old did to me, i thought i could do it back. >> so we should point out, joe, we actually blurred that out this morning for our viewers, but it aired the double bird on tv. you're sitting at home, watching a football game, you just talk the way you talk. >> you know, and that's a great thing. it's like when you're watching a football game at home and that's why i think it is the future, they've kind of figured out the whole social media component to it and, jonathan lemire, you see guys running up and down the field making great plays, that didn't stop the mannings from talking about the game, they were talking among themselves, they go, oh, pass underneath zone coverage, that was good. it really -- man, it feels -- it feels like watching a football game in a living room. >> yeah, as a patriots fan i was never that big on the mannings but this is good, a good innovation, it's clever broadcasting and i'm also glad to hear that we have the ability to blur out double birds the next time i see barnicle on set. >> joe, just to watch peyton manning, watch his mind work, to be frustrated with quarterbacks, he is not afraid to call guys out, call out coaches for bad decisions and just to watch his mind read a coverage and call the play, it's a blast. it's the way to watch a game. >> it really s you know, he's got such a good presence because he's a tennessee guy, tennessee beat us four years in a row when i was at alabama. i never liked peyton, then i saw him on "snl," i sort of started to soften up. he's really -- he plays his role so well. he actually, i think, he's moving into being a great presence, a great broadcaster and if eli can just keep his hands in his pocket i think those manning boys have a future. >> so we start as we begin this morning with me asking you all to shut up. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. ♪♪ >> hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle live from los angeles, california, it is tuesday, september 28th, and it is a massive day in our nation's capitol so let's get smarter. right now the clock is