>> funding climate chaos. fuels. is funding fossil amy: we will talk about the banks of also fuel companies pushing the agenda behind the scenes here in nnimmo bassey. researchers are warning pacific islanders may be among the first people in the world who are forced to migrate a secure result of climate change. we will speak with dina ionesco, international organization for migration. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in zimbabwe, long-time leader robert mugabe remains under house arrest and is reportedly refusing to resign as president after zimbabwe's military seized the parliant, courts, government offes, and the main airport in the capital harari. robe mugabe has held power since zimbabwe declared independence from the united kingdo37 years ago. the 93-year-old leader was working to hand over power to his wife, 52-year-old grace mugabe. on wednesday african union commission chair moussa faki mahamat called for a democratic resolution to the political crisis in zimbabwe. >> the military has reassured us this is not a coup d'etat. as you know, the african union is against any unconstitutional change of government. this is a very fundamental principle of the african union and we systematically condemn any regime change by arms, whether it be military or rebellion. amy: back in the united states, two more women have come forward to accuse alabama republican senate candidate roy moore of sexual misconduct or making sexual advances toward them when they were teenagers. this brings the total number of women to nine. one woman said -- "i've known for over 20 years that he was a predator, that he preyed upon girls in the mall. it's comm knowledge." as his approval rating continues to fall, republican party leaders met wednesday to discuss how to deal with the crisis and how to keep republicans in control of the seat once held by now attorney general jeff sessions. politico reports senate majority leader mitch mcconnell has even discussed asking appointed senator luther strange of alabama to resign from his seat in order to trigger a new special election. in california, the death toll from tuesday's mass shooting has risen to five after authorities found the wife of the gunman dead in her home. authorities now believe the gunman kevin neal killed his wife before he went on a shooting rampage through the town of rancho tehama. in news from the middle east, former lebanese prime minister saad hariri has reportedly accepted an invitation from french president emmanuel macron to leave saudi arabia and come to france. last week, hariri unexpectedly resigned as lebanese prime minister while on a trip to saudi arabia. on wednesday, lebanon's president michel aoun accused riyadh of holding hariri captive. saudi arabia is continuing to block food and medicine from being delivered to yemen, which is facing the world's worst humanitarian crisis after years of war. 7 million yemenis face famine. the u.n. says some 900,000 people have been infected with cholera. on tuesday, democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut took to the floor of the senate to criticize the u.s. for its support of the saudi-led war in yemen. refueling planes flying in the sky around yemen that restock the saudi fighter jets with fuel, allowing them to drop more ordinance. it is u.s. made and transferred ordinance that have carried on these planes and are dropped on civilian and infrastructure targets inside yemen. of united states is part this coalition. the bombing campaign that has caused the cholera outbreak could not happen without us. amy: in other news from capitol hill, the house has passed a $700 billion military budget, by far the largest military budget in the world. according to the national priorities project, u.s. military expenditures are roughly the size of the world's next seven largest military budgets combined. meanwhile, a new study has found the amount spent by the u.s. on wars since the september 11 , 2001, will top more than $5.6 trillion by the end of the fiscal year. according to the brown university-based costs of wars project, the average u.s. taxpayer has spent over $23,000 to pay for the u.s. wars in iraq, afghanistan, syria, pakistan, and other countries. in news from capitol hill, five democratic lawmakers have introduced new articles of impeachment against president trump. congress member steve cohen of tennessee is spearheading the effort. presidenteve the trump has violated the constitution and we've introduced five articles of impeachment. the first is obstruction of justice, which deals with nestor comey's firing. the second is a violation of the constitutions foreign emolument clause which deals with moneys he is taken from foreign powers without the consent of congress. the third is a violation of the domestic emoluments clause that deals with money he is made from the united states in his personal businesses beyond that of his salary, which is also for bidden by our constitution. -- fourth is our federal undermining our federal judiciary and the fit is undermining freedom of the press. amy: in washington, d.c., jury selection has begun in the first trial of the nearly 200 people arrested during president trump's inauguration. some of the protesters are facing up to 75 years in prison. the first trial involves six people including one journalist, alexei wood, a freelance photojournalist and videographer based in san antonio. the american civil liberties union has warned the trials will have a chilling effect on future protesters who will be scared to use their first amendment rights. the senate has confirmed a former top coal executive to head the mine health and safety administration. david zatezalo faced criticism from democrats because his former company, rhino resources, had a record of repeatedly violated mine safety laws. in 2011, the company was fine $44,000 after one of its miners was killed in west virginia. in media news, the billionaire right-wing koch brothers may soon become major stakeholders in "time" and "people" magazines. the kochs have reportedly offered to invest $500 million in meredith corporation, which is trying buy the magazines. meredith is publisher of "family circle" and "better homes and gardens." in other media news the lower chamber of russia's parliament has approved legislation to require foreign journalists to register as foreign agents and declare details about their funding and finances. amnesty international described the vote as a serious blow to press freedom in russia. the vote comes shortly after the united states forced the international russian broadcaster rt to register as foreign agents. the state of ohio has postponed the execution of a severely ill 69-year-old man after his executioners could not find a suitable vein to use for lethal injection. theyried to find one for 30 minutes. the prisoner alva campbell relies on a walker and wears a colostomy bag. his lawyers say he requires frequent breathing treatments and may have lung cancer. the state of ohio attempted to carry out the execution, even though doctors had failed to find veins in either of campbell's arms suitable for inserting an iv during a recent exam. an undocumented human rights activist has taken sanctuary inside a new orleans church in an attempt to avoid deportation back to el salvador. jose torres is the father of two u.s.-born daughters, both of whom are critically, chronically ill. torres came to new orleans shortly after hurricane katrina and helped rebuild the city. according to the congress of day laborers, torres is the first immigrant to seek sanctuary in a church in the deep south since the election of president trump. the trump administration will allow american trophy hunters to import the bodies of elephants they kill in zimbabwe and zambia, reversing a ban put in place by president obama. the interior department's rule change comes even though african elephants are listed as threatened under the endangered species act. the policy could affect president trump's two adult sons, eric and donald, jr., who are long-time trophy hunters who've repeatedly posed for photos with dead animals they killed in africa. a 2012 picture of donald trump, jr., in zimbabwe shows him standing in front of the corpse of an african elephant, holding a knife in one hand and a severed tail in the other. and the longtime philadelphia-based civil rights activist and professor john raines has died at the age of 84. in 1971, he and a group of other activists broke into an fbi office in media, pennsylvania. they stole every document they found and then leaked many to the press, including details about fbi abuses and the then-secret counter-intelligence program known as co-intel pro to infiltrate, monitor and disrupt social and political movements, the burglars' identities remained a secret until 2014 when raines, his wife bonnie and others, came forward to take credit for the action. he spoke to democracy now! in 2014. >> the problem was, j edgar hoover was untouable. he was a national icon. he had presidents who were afraid of him. the people that we elected to oversee j edgar hoover fbi are either enamored of him or terrified of him. nobody was holding him accountable. that meant that somebody had to get objective evidence of what his fbi was doing. and that led us to the idea that bill suggested to us, let's break into an fbi office, get their files, and get what they're doing in their own handwriting. amy: john raines died on sunday at the age of 84. you can visit our website democracynow.org to see the full interview. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report, i'm amy goodman. nermeen: welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. we're broadcasting live from the u.n. climate summit here in bonn, germany. we begin today's show with zimbabwe, where long-time leader robert mugabe remains under house arrest and is reportedly refusing to resign as president after zimbabwe's military seized parliament, courts, government offices, and the main airport in the capital harari. the apparent through came a week after president mugabe said his vice president emmerson mnangagwa, who fled the country only to return wednesday. the military says it has appointed him as interim president. residents reported an uneasy calm today after tuesday night's coup, which saw armored vehicles rumble through the streets, with explosions and heavy gunfire reported in harare's northern suburbs, where a number of government officials live. this is major general s.b. moyo speaking wednesday morning on zimbabwean state tv after mugabe's arrest. >> security is guaranteed. we are only targeting criminals who are committing crimes that are causing social and economic suffering in the country in order to bring them to justice. amy: robert mugabe has held power since zimbabwe declared independence from the united kingdom 37 years ago. the 93-year-old leader was working to hand over power to his wife, 52-year-old grace mugabe. there are conflicting accounts about her location, with some reports suggesting she fled to namibia, while others report she's under house arrest in zimbabwe. for more, we're joined by two guests. you're in bonn, germany, we're joined by nnimmo bassey nigerian , environmental activist and the director of the health of mother earth foundation. in oxford, in britain, we're joined by joslin alexander. she is professor at oxford university, author of "the unsettled land." professor, we're going to take us right through today, 2017. can you explain what you understand is taking place in zimbabwe right now? >> i can try. there is a great deal of confusion still about what is happening. it,ar as we understand there's a process of negotiation going on amongst the main players, including emissaries from the regional group and from south africa. all sides are trying to reach some kind of agreement. they have been negotiating, understand, since yesterday until late last night and are resuming again today to try to come to some kind of agreement. of course, the positions are, to some extent, irreconcilable and there is some question about whether the godly will be willing to step down and under what --mugabe will be willing to step down and what kind of regime will take over in his place. that is really much an ongoing set of negotiations and i think it is not yet clear. nermeen: professor, can you tell us what you think mugabe took this step now of sacking his vice president nine days ago? emmerson mnangagwa is a formidable political actor and i think mugabe felt he was impatient to take power and he wasn't willing to tolerate the kind of maneuverings that emmerson mnangagwa and more so, maybe some of his allies, were undertaking. so he moved against him as much as he moved against his predecessor who was kicked out of office a few years earlier under similar circumstances. mugabe has acted to prevent anyone from assuming any path to power while he is still an office. amy: can you give us the history of all of these power centers in zimbabwe? grace mugabe, the wife, the new president, and what their relationship is, as well as the person you just talked about. >> i think are great many centers of power in zimbabwe. system very complicated to fully understand. a lot of the betrayal has in this as a question of the military versus mugabe. but the military itself is not united. part of the military remains loyal to mugabe. i think there was quite a difference in the tone and the man's in context provided -- the man's and context provided in a statement on monday and early wednesday morning, first from the chief of the defense forces a major general in the military. different types of complaints and justify their intervention in different ways, which may or may not indicate that there is a division even among those who would like to remove mugabe. one is closely allied to emmerson mnangagwa, who is a very powerful position within the political party. to some extent, you can see his actions as trying to aid the hisnt of a friendly part of group from his point of view. he may harbor political ambitions as well. i think there is a different view from within the military that can be as a kind of professional objection to what they're saying as abuses of the zimbabwe and state and abuses of patronage.ean there are different agendas even within the military that hasn't really come out into the light of day yet and i think we may see that play out in the next few days. the intensity of the negotiations at the moment are about how mugabe might leave. there are a number of key players involved in that process . of course, they are also consulting members of the opposition movement. there are many different parties and make up the opposition and the mussununga get is led by morgan, who in fact beat mugabe in an election in 2008 but was not allowed to assume power. he remains probably the leader , inhe most significant electoral terms, opposition party. but there are smaller parties that are also part of the negotiations and making demands. they are different kinds of links to south africa and other regional players. it is a very complex picture. i think it would be rash to jump to conclusions at this point about what the outcome is going to be. by ane are also joined associate fellow of the africa program at chatham house who is currently in south africa. just returned from zimbabwe as all of this was unfolding. can you describe what the atmosphere was like and your thoughts right now on what is happening in neighboring zimbabwe? >> thank you. for some days. look, it was surprisingly restrained. there was obviously public anxiety about what people are hearing. it has always been rumor central. people communicate by social media, so there was a lot of false news going on which raised public anxiety. on the ground, certainly in -- i wase did not see there to see family. we did not see a massive yetence of soldiers, certain roads had been cordoned off. you did not see hundreds and hundreds of soldiers milling around in the streets. you did nothing harassment of civilians. very surprisingly guidedned military transition. the other surprising thing is there has been attacks of public acceptance. the wordesitate to use endorsement. this is not a democratic transition in the normal sense of the word. when you talk to people, it has reached such a low point in the economy, the level of suffering and impoverishment and issues are so broad that people are -- ng "if it has to be done this way, so be it. let's get closure." people one closure. the ongoing chaos and so forth. people just want closure. they want closure in the sense that we're entering a period where the new government -- there's likely to be some new government coming in, can engage. home,rty for people at what people are saying, the economy. economy, economy. jobs. food. the sense of the movement of the economy. nermeen: dr.knox chitiyo, you in zimbabwe.e just you're in south africa now. as we speak, south african ministers are meeting with people in zimbabwe in an attempt to resolve this crisis. can you tell us historically what the role of south africa and zimbabwe has been? >> it has been a very close role. zimbabwe and-- south africa have been both competitors and collaborators in the region. [indiscernible] been kindt times has of the number two in the region. so it is a very close relationship. sometimes contested. the 2000w during strong role in terms of a dispute. south africa now is coming on board again because there is obvious anxiety within the region that this needs to be a negotiated -- what nobody wants is for this process to become very messy, violent. i think nobody once that, particularly the people in zimbabwe. that is what we're seeing south africa stepping in again. ofre's a certain level battle fatigue in the region. have its own issues. but what is happening now is too important, too critical for the south african region not to step in. it has a massive regional implication. amy: i want to bring nnimmo bassey into this conversation. you are an environmental activist, but you are here in bonn, germany. you hear that there has been a coup in zimbabwe, though the government is now trying to say it is not a coup, it is a correction. so your thoughts as a longtime african leader? >> it is absolutely a coup. there is no difference from zimbabwe and the coup. 30 years of military rule. you can see the same trademark, the same things happening. the president, the commander in chief of the armed forces, is in detention, house arrest. that is a coup. military and zimbabwe is being careful in handling the situation. the leading political party, walking hand-in-hand. they have to prop him up. 2008.ave him in 1980 and has been a to prop them up. it looks like now the military thought they may lose out in the end and take him out in this way. nermeen: mugabe wasn't always recognized as a dictator. he helped lead the fight against the british and colonial rhodesia. could you tell us a little bit about the transition that occurred over these decades? that was in 1980 and it is now 2017. >> mugabe stood out as a leader of the movement in rhodesia against the minority government in power. and of course, [indiscernible] he was always a civilian more or less. that is what made things different. from when he took over as prime and mr., became after being in power so long, people needed a change. the change through the ballot box. unfortunately the military is exploiting that. it is opportunistic. can change thele situation. it is a very difficult balancing game what is going on now. amy: professor jocelyn alexander , would you agree with nnimmo bassey that this is a correction or a coup? >> by any definition, it is a coup. it is interesting or china tell a story about in which it is something different. it is not unlike the so-called coups in west africa where you have people saying the politicians have gotten a bit out of control. they are overly abusive. we're just turn a fix the situation so we can get back on the right track. obviously, it is unconstitutional. obviously, it is illegal. obviously, it is not a democratic process. so i think by any other name, it is a coup. i think it is important that they're trying to portray it as something else. i think that is one of the things that is going to constrain them. knox hope my colleague chitiyo is correct and this will be resolved in negotiation will stop the pressure is, the government that comes in news to have some kind of legitimacy. the only way it can do that is if there is a negotiated agreement. there's some kind of terms on which mugabe will step down that will allow for a government that is more inclusive and is not run by the military. i don't think the military has the stomach for any kind of direct government. they very much want to head back over to politicians. the complication here is that some of the military, at any rate, is very much on the side of a particular faction, the ruling party, led of course by emmerson mnangagwa. emmerson mnangagwa is a divisive figure. he is not someone who is going to easily unite the party behind him. he is not going to easily unite all of the security forces behind him. this is a large military with various branches that have different kinds of loyalties. that is something which raises a real challenge. i would very much like to backup what knox chitiyo was saying. it has been entirely passive. there is been no one in the street. there has been a celebration. but there has been no objection. none of the parties youth leagues have come out. there's en no expressions of joy or anger over what is happening. there is a sense of everybody waiting. i have heard from many people that they are happy about the change. and i think there is an extraordinary sense of zimbabwe having been stuck in this place for a very long time and unable to get out of it, really since the 2008 election. that even earlier than that. change was necessary. it was being blocked by robert mcgaughey. the idea that that might be something that shifts now has caused a kind of euphoria, and optimism about what might be possible. to be overly negative, but i think there needs to be a lot of care in thinking about what direction zimbabwe is going in now, what kind of deals are being made, how this government really is going to be held accountable, who it actually represents. you know, what kind of stability we're talking about in the end of those things remain to be resolved or even -- i don't think we even know the shape of it yet. we will certainly continue to cover this. we want to thank us for professor jocelyn alexander speaking to us and knox chitiyo nnimmo bassey.nde , an issue that the trump administration has been dealing with around zimbabwe. the trump administration has reversed in obama era rule allowing american trophy hunters to import the bodies of elephants they kill in zimbabwe's in zambia. the interior department's role change comes even though african elephants are listen -- listed endangereded or the species act. eric and donald jr. were longtime trophy hunters who have repeatedly posed for photos with dead animals in africa. in 2012 picture of donald trump, jr. in zimbabwe shows him standing in front of the corpse of an african elephant, holding a knife in one hand and a and another. as an environmental activist on the continent, your thoughts? -- wouldimagine what horrify us than what we've seen already. with this is a very low point. yet the president of the united wildlife in africa -- [indiscernible] but to allow trophy hunters from the united states to kill come a and take the bodies tohe u.s. or to anywhere else, is reprehensible. it is horrible and should be condemned. amy: you said you do not think anything is good for a fight you about what the u.s. is doing right now. you have been at cop for many years. this is the first u.n. climate summit, welcomed the new president, donald trump, has said he is pulling the u.s. out of the u.n. climate summit. the significance to this and what it means for africa? >> when the announcement came, my first reaction was, well, the u.s. has been a positive force. they introduced market forces, and copenhagen driving the is what has-- which been negotiated now. when trump pulled out, my fear was that [indiscernible] within the time, the u.s. can do than if they had left immediately. this is a big problem for the world because it means the problems that nations in africa are vulnerable, small islands are facing from storms, hurricanes, typhoons, they're going to face more. .here is no hope amy: and nigeria, how climate change affects your nation, the most populist nation in africa? >> oh, yes, we have a real serious. we have been discussing this. not just depending on what others may help them to do, for example, [indiscernible] in the south, you sea level rise combined with heavy pollution from the oil industry. people displaced from the south and the north. when here about violence at boko haram, a lot of the conflict i climateng is caused impact. amy: why do you say that? people would be shocked, boko haram, the group that has captured hundreds of girls? >> they did that. it is horrible. but what gives them the army there working with? chad was once 25,000 square kilometers. beenr folks, farmers have displaced. we are free range cattle. there is a lot of bloodshed. conflict clearly traceable to global warming. amy: we want to thank you, nnimmo bassey, for joining us today, and being here probably longer than we have been here at all of the u.n. climate summit spec to copenhagen. i am used to seeing you arrested in some protest. nnimmo bassey is a nigerian environmental activist and the director of the health of mother earth foundation. he wrote the forward for the report by corporate accountability titled "polluting paris." we are going to talk about that report in just a minute. he is also author of the book "to cook a continent." stay with us. ♪ [music break] : this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman wtih nermeen shaikh. we are broadcasting live from the u.n. climate summit. amy: representatives from nearly 200 nations have gathered here in bonn, germany, but they're not the only ones flocking to the city for this year's summit. and number of fossil fuel companies and corporate sponsors have also dissented on bonn where they're pushing her own agenda behind the scenes. on tuesday, activists disrupted a presentation at an annual corporate conference held alongside the climate summit. were protesting the bank for funding the pipeline. funding climate chaos. the eid is funding fossil fuels. adriatic gass pipeline is slated to run from the greek-turkish border, through greece and albania, under the adriatic sea, into italy. a new report by corporate europe observatory reveals how the gas industry spent more than 100 million euros and deployed over 1000 lobbyists to push gas as an energy solution to lawmakers in brussels and across the european union in 2016. for more, we are joined now by two guests. pascoe sabido is a researcher and campaigner for the corporate europe observatory. jesse bragg is the media director for corporate accountability. we welcome you both to democracy now! pascoe sabido, what should people in the united states and around the world understand about what you feel is the most critical issues now to deal with at this climate summit? >> what we're seeing is a lot of focus happening on coal. coal is damaging to the climate, despite what the u.s. might say. unfortunately, a lot of talk about coal phaseout, everyone is moving into gas. gas has been seen as a clean solution. but if you look at the entire production cycle when you drill for gas and transported, it releases huge amounts of methane which is more than 100 times worse in the climate than co2. coal and gas are pretty equal when it comes to climate impact. yet coal committees, welcome news, gas copies are trying to move us into yet another fossil fuel. new pipelines, terminals, locking us in to another 40 to 50 years. we need to be aware will we talk about moving out of coal, we need to see that as off also fuels. we're bnp paribas, one of the big gas funders. --y have recently said there they are financing gas. in another fossil fuel governor also put money into gas. we're seeing something dangerous that is under the radar because of the gas industry telling us it is clean. nermeen: could you tell us about that usually negotiators here in the talks? he himself was involved in some gas companies before he took on this position? >> he was a member of the spanish parliament. he was the president of two oil companies in the canary islands. then he was made a minister for environment. since then, he approved fracking a spain, well drilling in unesco heritage site and the canary islands, and the first shipment of tar sands from canada to spain. this is a guy not particularly pro-climate him he would say, then made the climate emission are. we have a huge conference of interest. nermeen: who appointed the climate commission for the eu? >> the head of the eu delegation , appointed by the president of the european commission. byis actually proposed spain. he comes from the spain ruling party. then he is appointed by -- it has to go before in addition, a front of the parliament. despite all of his conflict of interest, he was still allowed to become a commissioner. amy: very quickly, the tap pipeline. thet is coming from turkish-greek order to italy. it is supposed to bring europe gas. it is well over budget. communities along the pipeline are being moved out most of the military has moved in to southern italy to lock down the villages and stop them trying to protest. they're not being allowed in or out. also construction can happen. this is all about locking europe into yet more gas. least, corrupt locking up political opponents finding themselves in prison. this is not something the eu that comes to be a climate leader needs to be supporting and definitely not the thing the european investment bank and other european banks should be funding. amy: i want to ask jesse bragg about what is happening now with ukraine. i have heard this question a lot at the u.n. climate summit, but what is the u.s. connection with ukraine and coal? >> if you must ago, rick perry went over to ukraine and struck a deal. i will was $80 million of u.s. coal to be imported into ukraine. there was also a deal around nuclear fuel, giving westinghouse a real windfall, shipping nuclear fuel to ukraine. generally speaking, that is the context under which ukraine is operating here at the talks. amy: explain what ukraine is proposing when it comes to the paris climate deal. >> details are sketchy, but it is called committee for future. the idea behind it, based on a report by climate homes, corporations would be seated at the table to make decisions and sort of oversee the of limitation of the paris agreement. we're talking not just general corporations -- energy corporations and fossil fuel corporations. it flips on its head the , loanuct that is the u.n. corporations to oversee governments in the implementation of the paris agreement. amy: did they propose this after the former texas governor now energy secretary rick perry went to ukraine? the u.s. is pulling out of the climate deal, so need someone else to do this. >> they don't have much political capital in this space. part ofto wonder if that deal that was struck, we will import coal to you and in return you can float this proposal that will get our proposals a concerted seat at the table. nermeen: could use a little bit about the report you have on gas, pascoe sabido? you made the point that the tap pipeline is keeping europe gas- dependent. the perception in the u.s. is that the eu and european countries more generally are much more synthetic to the fact that except the fact of climate change and are taking massive steps to do with it. but what you're saying is, given that this oil company executive is the eu's lead negotiator, the perception might not be entirely accurate. >> what we're seeing in brussels just one of the infrastructures being built. the eu is still managing to have this image of being pro-climate because gas is being spun as a clean fossil fuel, which is completely not true. what we're seeing is in brussels, the gas industry is involved in policymaking at every single level. from the very, very beginning, all the way through parliament, to the end when the fine details are worked out -- this is not industry power. this is also the open arms of the european commission and government. they are being welcomed in. in the eu, we're basing our, policy on projections for future gas use. who is giving us these projections? the gas industry. european commission is asking the gas industry to write out lists that will correspond to these needs. they're giving us huge lists. amy: rex tillerson, exxonmobil, , do youetary state d see his hand in this? he was with suu kyi. >> they u.s. fingerprints are all over this agreement and certainly all of her what the u.s. is doing here. we have seen the block really important negotiations on things and 32020 action or loss damage finance. the things that will help -- amy: loss and damage means? rebuilding after catastrophic climate events. these are all components that would help lead to liability. admitting the liability of the fossil fuel industry, for example. the u.s. positions, they are the to protect the fossil fuel industry assumes. amy: we just have another minute to go, but, pascoe sabido come on monday night there was quite a scene. delegation,u.s. whatever they constitute themselves as, the representative of trump, mike pence the four corporate executives from oil, gas, and nuclear in a room. people, oh, hundreds of inside and outside the room. they interrupted with song "proud to be an american" and change the lyrics and then walked out. showcasing, u.s. not even including renewables, but only oil, gas, and nuclear. your thoughts? >> this really underlines why it is so important to kick them out. we need to kick them out just not these u.n. talks, but we need to introduce a measure that can protect our policymakers from their vested interest. as long as these fossil fuel companies have a grip over policymaking, we're never going to reach the paris agreement or go further than it, which is what we need to do to keep temperature rises below 1.5 degrees. amy: next year is in poland. >> coal country. amy: it was just in poland. why do they get it twice? >> coal is going to behind on the agenda. proposals such as ukraine are going to come back more and more. it means the fight against coal, gas, and oil are going to have to be double down. we need to make sure these industries are kept away from our policymakers as much as possible. amy: we want to thank you for being with us, pascoe sabido, corporate europe observatory. jesse bragg, corporate accountability. we will link to their groups. when we come back, what are climate refugees, climate migrants? stay with us. ♪ [music break] amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman wtih nermeen shaikh. we are broadcasting live from bonn.n. climate summit in and go this year is known as the first islands cop with fiji presiding. it is being held here in bonn because of the logistical challenges of hosting thousands of people in fiji at the start of the south pacific cyclone season. researchers here are warning the pacific islanders may be among the first to be forced to migrate due to climate change and sea level rise is threatening to make whole islands uninhabitable. amy: on wednesday, we got a chance to speak with pacific islanders who rolled out a red carpet to greet german chancellor angela merkel here at the cop23. the massive banner that when along the floor to the plenary read "keep it in the ground." among those who rolled it out tongaacific warriors of delegate from the marshall islands. i asked them how climate change is affecting their island. >> with the sea level rising, a lot of the low-lying countries are being affected. the marshall islands is two meters above sea level. once the tide comes in companies likely the villages will be flooded with saltwater because of the rising sea levels. wheren samoa, places homes were on the shore, now moved further inland. it is affecting the way of life. it is affecting indigenous root crops because of saltwater intrusion as well as fresh strengthening. island nations and of the only places where climate change are straining to force people from their homes. last are around the world, at least 23 million people were displaced by extreme weather. for more, we're joined by dina ,onesco, the head of migration environment and climate change at the international organization for migration. what do these people face? what is a climate change migrant or refugee? >> climate change migration means the impacts of climate change affect so much the life of people that they cannot stay in their homes. and very often also, climate change connects to other issues -- poverty, for instance, demographic issues. it makes it even more difficult for people to remain. climate migration means that people have to move, but also sometimes choose to move because their environment is degrading. it can be, as you said, said in onset, floods. onset.lso this slow it is very complex. many different issues. at the bottom line is that we do not want these people to be forced to move because of climate change. this is why we are here. nermeen: of years ago, a man from the island sparked a global debate because he became the first person ever to seek asylum for him and his family as climate refugees. could you tell us about his case and what has happened with people seeking asylum for climate related issues? >> have to realize the majority of people who move because of climate change, they move internally. they move within borders. so that means there under the responsibility of their own state. they are not seeking climate refugee status because their own state has to take care of them and respect their human rights. then we have the case for the small islands or haiti after the earthquake where people moved across borders, maybe two or zero or to the u.s. or just across within the same island. then there is the question, what rights do they halved to move? there are also possibilities to temporary protection or if you military and visa that can allow them to stay. you cannot beat refugee for the refugee- you can get for the moment. it is difficult to create a status as a refugee for, change. amy: we're going to do part two and post it online, but what do you think it is most important for the world to know right now about what the world is doing about climate migrants? >> i think one key thing to realize is that if we act now in terms of climate change action, if we take care of the earth now, it means we support for people to stay in their homes, that they're not forced to be migrants. that is one key message. invest in, action gives people a choice whether to go. they have a right to move if they want to move, but let's not a last resort, a tragedy, when it is too late, when there is nothing else. amy: dina ionesco, thank you so much. we will post part two online as a web exclusive on democracynow.org. speaking in berlin on saturday night at 7:30. check our website. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!] are you tired of frozen meat-free burgers? take a big bite. don't look. wow. on today's show, we'll whip up a hearty plant-based burger that preps for the oven in less than 10 minutes. that is it. i'm gonna serve it with some sassy coleslaw on the side. that is beautiful. followed by a festive fruit pie dessert. apples, pears, cranberries, lemon juice, cinnamon, and dark brown sugar. so please join us for my ♪ vegan drive-in menu right here on "jazzy vegetarian." ♪ jazzy ♪ you're gonna be healthy ♪ ♪ with the jazzy vegetarian ♪ jazzy, so snazzy ♪ we're gonna cook something healthy and light ♪

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