a fierce debate between businesses and unions. david, we begin with you. >> jackie, good afternoon to you. there's been talk recently of testing problems. no question about that. people are waiting in line hours to get a test. today the administration mentioned national guard troops helping out with testing. that brings people back to the early days of 2020. people don't want to hear the terms together. however, the administration asserting that they have a strong plan to deal with testing after people are waiting in line. administration officials announced a plan, 13,000 national guard troops helping in covid related issues in 48 starts. testing is a serious problem with people waiting not just one or two hours or three or four, sometimes five or six hours to get a simple test. the president himself just two days ago admitted his team is behind the eight ball when it comes to testing. listen. >> it's not enough. it's clearly not enough. if i had -- if we had known, we would have gone harder, quicker if we could have. >> now, to combat the problem, the administration announced a plan to send out half a billion tests to people if they request them. contracts are being drawn up to take care of that. this is something top medical experts maintain should have been done a year ago on a continuous basis to stay ahead of the testing curve. you mentioned vaccine mandates when it comes to traveling. the president under increasing pressure to make a decision about whether he will mandate vaccinations for the millions of people that get on planes and trains to travel. last night here in row -- rohobith beach, the president was asked about travel mandates. >> he said he was going to get advice from his medical advisers. his chief medical advisers, dr. fauci, said earlier this afternoon at this point he does not see a need for a vaccine mandate to get on a plane for domestic travel. that's what the current situation dictates according to dr. fauci. he said and always said as a caveat, when the science changes, things could change. right now it doesn't appear that a domestic travel vaccine mandate is in the works. jackie? >> jackie: with respect to the tests, the contracts won't be inked until next week and then probably another two to three weeks to get them distributed, this spike might be over by then. thanks, david. the lower five-day quarantine period sparking debate saying it's needed and the unions saying putting workers at risk. steve harrigan is in atlanta with that start of the story. steve? >> that's right, jackie. daily testing at record levels across the u.s. more than 280,000 per day. hospitalizations and deaths not keeping pace. the average death toll in the u.s. somewhere around 1,500. about half the rate at its peak last winter. the decision by the cdc to recommend cutting isolation for asymptomatic covid patients. flight attendants unions pushing back about the fact that year not required to take a test after isolation. they're saying you can come back to work sick. the head of the cdc said a decision to reduce isolation time was based on more than just pure science. >> so it had a lot to do with what we thought people would be able to tolerate. we have seen relatively low rates of isolation for all of this pandemic. some science has demonstrated less than a third of people are isolating when they need to. >> one walmart in new jersey had to close its doors to the public after dozens of employees turned up with covid. what happened there is happening in store and businesses across the country. football bowl games as well. nobody is shutting them down but they don't have the bodies to perform. five college bowl games cancelled because they don't have the bodies on the field. the ucla bruins, no defensive line. the entire line had covid. impossible the play. back to you. >> jackie: thanks, steve. it's a lot to take in. here to help us sort through this, st. joseph health director dr. bob lahida. great to see you. people are curious about the latest cdc guidance. we've been saying the messages have been mixed, the rules changed and people don't know what to believe at this point. the issue of the shorter five-day quarantine period in your opinion, good idea or bad idea? >> it's a good idea. i think it was silly to keep people isolated without isolation. if you test positive, you stay home for five days. if you have symptoms, you stay home for at least five days. if you have no symptoms, after five days, but you are testing positive, you can leave the house but you have to continue to wear your mask. it's not not very complicated. if you're exposed, jackie and you have been boosted and you complete the vaccinations within six months, you wear a mask for ten days. use common sense. watch your hands and wear the mask. that's all you have to do. there's a shortage of doctors and hospitals now. >> jackie: yeah, absolutely. a huge issue as we go forward. we have to understand it's a part of our lives. but it's confusing to me. you look at the cdc director, rochelle walensky. she used to say we're following the science. now she says it's about people's tolerance, which people have said for a long time. she's talking about testing saying you don't need the tests to go back to work because you can potentially be positive for 12 weeks after you're infected with covid-19. what changed here? why don't we know that? we didn't we know it by now? >> it's a confluence of data. if you take the science, we shed the virus for a long period of time if we're not vaccinated. if you're vaccinated, you don't shed as much virus and you're most infectious two to three days after your symptoms begin. after that, its sort of a chronic deal where if you wear a mask, you will not infect anybody. your shedding is very low. >> jackie: doctor, another person sending mixed messages, dr. anthony fauci.now he's talking about attending new year's eve parties. here's what he has to say. >> if your plans are to go to a 40 or 50-person new year's eve party with all the bells and whistles and everybody hugging and kissing, i would recommend this year that we do not do that. >> jackie: dr. fauci saying smaller family vaccinated boosted parties are the way to do. the larger parties are not okay. doctor, this virus has sort of ripped throughout the country and we've seen cases spike to a certain degree. almost everybody that i know has it or has had it in the last few weeks. at this point, should we be limiting gatherings, sizes? >> i cancelled my new year's eve plans with about 300 other people. a lot of people, a lot of friends and a lot of colleagues have con selled their new year's plans this year. even though this omicron variant is not going to produce hospitalizations and deaths, it's still prudent since we don't know who is vaccinated and who is not, who is in heart failure, et cetera and you don't want to kill your friends on new year's eve by overdoing it. >> jackie: no. you make a good point. nobody wants to be responsible for that, dr. bob lahita, happy new year to you. >> happy new year, jackie. >> jackie: stay safe. big question, of course, will the shorter quarantine peered yos help restaurants stay open as well. we're dealing with a labor shortage out there. sean kennedy is with the national restaurant association. sean, i want to get your reaction to what we're seeing right now. shorter quarantine period means workers can go back to work if they choose to, by the way. they might not. that's one of the problems we've been seeing in the industry. >> jackie, the restaurant industry is still about 757,000 jobs fewer than we were before the pandemic. today's news that we can reduce the quarantine period for employees is a good one. it doesn't have a lot of bottom-line impact. restaurantses were using best practices for guests. that's why you've not seen an outbreak the last 20 months. >> jackie: you're right on that. of course, folks here in new york city, restaurants are the life blood of the economy. we want to get back up and running and want things back to normal as quickly as possible. restaurants are a huge part of that. there's a big headline in politco, this week, talking about omicron and saying that it's triggering businesses at an outcry for washington lifeline again. you many mentioned in that article. what would you like to see congress do when it returns next week to help restaurants, to help get back on track. >> the challenge for the restaurant industry, we were the first industry to be shut down by state and local governments, the last one to fully come back online. congress is generally responded to this pandemic in fits and starts as if this would be a short term problem. we were at months 20 right now. we need a long-term solution. one easy step would be to continue funding the restaurant revitalization fund. it takes care of one in three restaurants. unless congress steps in soon, 90,000 restaurants that are closed permanently or long-term, that number will only creep up. >> jackie: if we can rewind and go back six months, even a year to when president biden came in to office, had he managed this situation a little bit differently, do you think the restaurants would be asking for this kind of help right now? >> there's three things that restaurants need in order to keep their doors up. we need a customer demand, we need a work force that can meet that customer demand and we need rationale and steady wholesale food prices. we can crawl if we only have two of them. we can't get by without one. right now we have a perfect storm. customer demand is done because of omicron. we still don't have the work force we need. wholesale prices are at a 40-year high year over year. there's a lot of things that president biden as well as congress can be doing and should be focusing on when they come back for the holiday season. the members will stay very engaged on behalf of the entire industry. >> jackie: you bring up a lot of good points. it's the labor shortage, the supply chain. it's the inflation that we're seeing. of course, it was the covid response. great to see you, sir. i appreciate your insight. everything that you're doing to try to get things back on track. talk soon. >> thanks, jackie. >> jackie: coming up as the cdc loosens quarantine rules over here, there's many europeans protesting tighter covid restrictions over there. more turbulence at the nation's airports with flyers facing hundreds of cancellations. it's all coming up after this. ♪ limu emu... & doug ♪ ♪ superpowers from a spider bite? i could use some help showing the world how liberty mutual customizes their car insurance so they only pay for what they need. (gasps) ♪ did it work? only pay for what you need ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ spider-man no way home in theaters december 17th your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire priceline can help you make the most of your budget, saving up to 40% on your flight. ooh, we have a comment from the airport announcers. (muffled, distorted) ...gate 43. what? (muffled, distorted) ...43... not better. mom, hurry, our show's gonna start soon. (muffled, distorted) ...43... won't be too long. i'm leaving work now. ♪ people around ♪ ♪ christmas ♪ oh no. seriously? oh, don't worry. mommy'll be back soon. besides, we can record the show for her. it's not the same if she's not here. ♪ christmas ♪ ♪ the snow's coming down ♪ what the? oh my goodness. don't worry, i'm a nurse. we're on in 30 seconds. i don't suppose you can sing, can you? ♪ deck the halls ♪ ♪ but it's not like christmas at all ♪ mommy? that's mommy. whoa. ♪ and all the fun we had last year ♪ ♪ pretty lights on the tree ♪ ♪ i'm watching them shine ♪ watch the full story at xfinity.com/sing2 >> jackie: welcome back. with omicron driving covid cases, restrictions are ramping up across europe. many people are just fed up. alec hogan is in london with the latest. >> hi, jackie. cases are soaring across europe. we've seen new lockdowns that have overshadowed and cancelled holiday celebrations. as a result, a lot of protests as people were meant to be celebrating. take a look at this video in slovenia where people clashed with police. germany's protest turned into one of the most violent. the world health organization warned that omicron is only exacerbating the current problem. >> i'm highly concerned that omicron being more transmissible circulating the same time as delta is leading to a tsunami of cases. >> greece, italy and portugal broke their record number of cases. switzerland and the netherlands expect omicron to be the dominant variant within days. france reporting europe's highly ever with 208,000 cases in 24 hours. the country has mandated working from home three days a week, limited gatherings and banned eating in public settings like cinemas and sporting events. it's a slightly different tone across the channel in england. boris johnson says he won't tighten restrictions. health officials are attributing it all to a couple different reasons. they say we see slightly less significant symptoms when it comes to omicron and they're also touting the country's vaccine and booster efforts. so far the country has vaccinated 70% of its residents. jackie? >> jackie: alex reports violence in germany as well? >> that's right. monday the most violent protests that they had seen against -- since the pandemic began here. some of the footage that we saw, people throwing bottles at police. fireworks going off. again, we've seen a lot of these protests throughout the pandemic of people struggling, wanting the restrictions to lift, wanting to spend time with family, spend time with businesses. unfortunately we're only seeing the lock downs increase. germany says they're seeing and explosion of cases and within days they expect omicron to be that leading variant. >> yeah, it's difficult. people don't want to be locked down anymore. they're doing something about it as you can see there. thanks, alex. i appreciate it. meantime, the worries about the lockdowns over there, worries about a slow down here in this country, what can the president do right now to keep this economy from stalling out? former reagan economic adviser art laffer is here to weigh-in. art, always great to see you. i'm going to let you take it from here. one of the things that you're going to say is not spend another $2 trillion. >> that's for sure. by the way, jackie, just forgive my formal attire. i'm here at my farm in kentucky. forgive me. yeah, what he should do on the build back better, he should admit defeat and get rid of it. it's done. people don't want it. the senate won't pass it. it would be the gracious them for him to do. they went through all sort of fin nagling to get there. shouldn't be on reconciliation. it shouldn't be passed 51-50. that's not the right way to do it either. he should be gracious and say that's over. let's get on to the next business. what he also should do, i think, is do payroll tax waiver, partial probably, to really make it more attractive for more low income workers to come back to the labor force. that should happen as well. and lastly, the thing i think biden should do is what i think he's trying to do is really pass the decision making on to the states rather than mandating everything from washington d.c. let it go to the states. this is where states have an enormous advantage over the federal government of knowing what is good in this stay versus that state. federal mandates are one size fits all and doesn't make any sense at all. those make any sense to you, jackie? >> jackie: everything you said makes a lot of sense. the mandates, he held on to the federal control to say this is the purpose. this is why i should be in office. obviously he's seen the last year, it hasn't worked out. the governors have been vying to get power and control back and do it their way. it's interesting. you're talking about suggestions here how you keep the economy going. if he doesn't go forward with build back better, the progressives are saying use some executive orders to do things. they're not talking about what you're talking about. they're talking about forgiving student loans, regulating energy industry, about the build back better stuff through executive order and that won't help anybody. >> they should be talking about things that are gracious and working together. you know, when you look at the squad and these other people, this is a time for coming together. really, people don't want that bill. they really don't. they don't want forgiveness of students loans. this administration should be gracious. you have seen their falls in the polls dramatic which means change course and work with republicans and other people to get good policies, this is a time for them to come back together. biden used to be this way. i was pleased with biden being the democratic nominee. i have known him a lot of years. he's been very good, cooperator with republicans. not now. he should go back to the old biden and really be just a wonderful president. >> that was the biden that -- >> i'm not hopeful. >> jackie: that was the biden that people thought they would get. i want to mention the dow and the s&p 500 closed at new records. but this market is looking at omicron and saying yes, we're going to peak at some point and cases are go down again. somehow we'll find our way. we'll get back on track. do you agree with that? inflation is still out there. >> i agree with that totally. i'd like to call out three dear friends that have done amazing events recently. sir michael hinsley who funded three airplanes filled with women out of afghanistan. he funded that venture to bring them out in the last few weeks. marshall geller on the board of verify me, he started a young man called chris gardner in the business, brought him all the way up. if you get a chance to see his movie, pursuit of happiness, it's the life story of chris gardner. he's also on the board with me in this. lastly, i'd like to thank a good friend of mine, a guy named donald trump for operation warp speed and for all the convenience he did. not on the vaccines but he did the remedial processes as well, which nobody talks about. they're amazing. also for the testing. donald trump did all of that. i just want to thank him. >> jackie: he had no tools when he got started. this was sprung upon us. >> exactly. >> jackie: this administration had all the tools and didn't do anything to make sure that we would have the supplies we need. that's why people are just scratching their heads here and they're a little confused. great to see you. we're out of time. enjoy the farm. >> great to see you. congratulations. thank you. >> jackie: good to see you. okay. coming up, could build back better make a comeback? progressives are pushing for action on it. can congress reach common ground? we're going to ask a congressman coming up. ly. it was a easy decision -- clearchoice. 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[ chantell ] clearchoice dental implants changed everything. my digestive health is much better now. i feel more energetic. the person that i've always been has shown up to the party again. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list event. >> jackie: if you think inflation is going away any time soon, think again. the report that should have you worrying going into the new year. we're back in 60 seconds. >> there are many things that a lot of people want in the build back better bill like lowering the cost of prescription drugs and employers are desperate to get people in to jobs. the child care issue. it's always better when congress tries to come together, find that common ground and pass legislation. when we return, that's what i'm going to be focused on. >> jackie: that was michigan democratic congress woman debbie dingell hoping congress can find some consensus on the nearly $2 trillion spending bill. can they? let's ask one of her gop colleagues, jason smith. great to see you. she says biden will not move forward with executive action. they still have hoping to get this done. but right now manchin is a holdout. >> first off, it's not just manchin that is a holdout. it's the american people that are the holdout. they don't want this $5 trillion tax and reckless spending bill that bankrupts the economy, benefits the wealthiest of all miles per hours and builds the washington bureaucracy. it adds 150 new programs. the american people don't want it. joe manchin listened to the american people and 50 republican senators don't -- you know what? there's more than joe manchin that our democrat senators that are opposed to it. i bet several democratic u.s. senators sent joe manchin a gift because he's the one killing it. >> jackie: they probably did. when it comes to inflation, americans are feeling it. they are feeling it across the board. at the pump, in the grocery store. retail items when they were trying to give gifts this holiday season. they're being charged to return gifts this holiday season now that we're passed the christmas holiday. people feel the strain of that. they feel the strain of this pandemic as well. they don't want to see less disposable income. they want to see more. i think they're starting to understand and put those dots together as you're suggesting here. that spending more, more programs that go into perpetuity, that won't fix the problem. >> without a doubt. we're facing the highest inflation in 40 years since joe biden became president on january 20th. that means higher prices for all americans to put food on their table, clothes on their backs and medicine in their cabinets. what is joe biden, nancy pelosi and chuck schumer wanting to do to address it? they want to spend trillions more dollars of government funding? that is the wrong recipe. you cannot stop inflation by just spending your way out of inflation. that is the wrong recipe. the american people don't want it and they've had enough. >> we mentioned this before. some of the alternatives to the build back better bill would be the president signing a couple of executive orders. he could do that when it comes to regulating energy industry. he could do that and forgive student loans. a lot of people are saying why should you forgive student loans and not forgive my mortgage? she -- congresswoman dingell talked about prescription drug prices. it yanks the patents away from the companies that developed them and give them to blanket manufacturers to bring the costs down. some of these things are very un-american. >> jackie, every time joe biden touches pen and signs another executive order creates another crisis. remember the border crisis? remember the energy crisis? ref the afghanistan crisis? the vaccination crisis? everything that he's done by executive order has only led the a greater hardship on all americans. he needs to stay at home, stop signing the executive orders and allow congress to do its job. >> jackie: he could do that or he could also try to fix some of the things that he promised he would fix like the supply chain, that is leading to the inflation problem. no movement has been made there. so many are saying this is going to go well into next year. and inflation is not going to come down quickly. the fed told us this is not transitory, people. >> jackie, he spend $2 trillion in march in the first reconciliation package. they said it was for covid relief. less than 9% went towards covid spending. now he's trying to come up with another covid spending package? when that spending package, he reallocated $2 billion of money that should have went towards covid testing but instead sent it to house illegals at the border, his reckless behavior is wrong for america. it's not what we need right now. >> jackie: we'll be watching the mid-terms closely. you can see if americans vote and speak their mind and sort of make themselves heard, if you will. congressman, great to see you today. happy new year to you. >> great to see you. >> happy new year. >> jackie: coming up, fed up with rising prices? the warning that will have you worried. another day of airline delays. now storms can slow things down. what you need to know before you head to the airport coming up. ♪ ♪ at lowe's, with endless ways to organize what you need, you'll find some of the peace-of-mind you want. at prices you'll really want. start the year fresh at lowe's. shop lowe's store & save event now in-store and online. america is blessed with countless service men and women who have bravely fought on our behalf. they've paid the price in body and spirit so we can enjoy our freedom. - by joining the military during a very active period of war, i absolutely went into it with the idea that i could die. both of my legs were amputated due to an ied that i sustained while i was deployed to iraq. i mean, i'm still here. so, there must be something more. 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[echoing] get a quote today. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ >> jackie: welcome back. new year, same hot crisis. goldman sachs says the inflation will get worse before it gets better. so what is in store for 2022? with me now, brian brenberg. great to see you. we've been talking about inflation. people are talking about the pinch. there's no relief in sight. goldman sachs is saying it will be here awhile. >> yeah, the problem, jackie is nothing is changing. inflation will be around in 2022. there's nothing changes at the policy level. all year we've had this problem because businesses can't fill jobs. they've had mandates hanging over their head. they don't know who they can bring on, what the status of the workers has to be to come in to the office. changes week by week seems like. you have the fed continuing to pump money into this economy at an incredible rate. now we're talking about schools maybe going back to remote learning. how do we solve a supply chain crisis or inflation problem when businesses can't plan for the next week let alone the next month? this will keep going on as long as we have the policy conditions. >> jackie: look at how the administration and the democrats are spending their build back better bill. sort of makes sense, brian. you and i have had the conversations before. the long they are pandemic goes, the more mandates you have, the more lockdowns you have, the more fear you inject into society. the more build back better seems to make sense because the way they're spinning it is, that will fix everything. >> yeah, you know, if you paint the landscape just right, maybe it seems like build back better works. one of the best pieces of news we've gotten all year is that bill seems to have died. that will actually help us out potentially next year and in to 2023 because we won't spend an extra $5 trillion the next ten years. this administration keeps providing solutions to the problems we don't have and neglects addressing the problems that we do have. at this point what the president really needs to do is make a sharp break with the left. he has to start saying and doing things that are uncomfortable to his left wing base. he has to say we need to get workers back on the job. we're going to drop all of the mandates. we have to keep schools open. we're going to take that off of the table. he needs to set the stage for businesses to hire and people to work. it's as simple as that. if he does that, we can make progress on inflation faster. if he doesn't do that, jackie, we'll have this conversation for a long time. >> jackie: i have a feeling we'll have that conversation for a really long time. let's just put it that way. another problem, another issue having to do with inflation is what we're seeing in the housing market. we have housing prices continuing to go up. we have people that have less disposable income. a new survey find that 29% of people are delaying home-buying plans because of inflation. 10% cancelling plans altogether. home buying is part of the american dream. we know because of the housing bubble that you can't just give mortgages out to anybody and there has to be rules and regulations. still, you have people whose hands are tied right now because they're trying to put food on the table. you look at this and say this is not going to get better next year either. in fact, with inflation going up, i think you'll see interest rates rising, too. but you won't see the prices come down the way they normally would. >> yeah, i mean, it's so incredibly difficult to buy a home right now. number 1, good luck finding a supply out there. the minute a house comes up, it's gone. number 2, this is the big point about inflation. it's so hard to make plans when you don't know where prices are going. right now home buyers are sitting there thinking some of them are saying, i can't do this. prices are too high. there's a bunch right now that are saying, i don't know if i should be buying a home right now but i feel like i better because if i don't do it now, prices go up even more. there's some just throwing their hands up sitting on the sidelines. this is the problem with inflation. when inflation runs rampant, it's impossible for people to make plans, long-term investments. that's what kills in an economy. you have to put people back in the driver's seat. right now they feel like they're being taken for a ride. >> jackie: yeah, whatever you save for inflation, you're always priced out of the market. it's difficult. then you have some people saying on the business side, your money is sitting in the bank, your down payment or whatever it was that you were saving. it's going to get eroded by inflation. not only will you be priced out but less cash on hand. it's a serious problem. we hope to see some relief in 2022. we'll be watching closely. so good to see you. thank you. >> talk song. >> coming up, no end in sight for travel troubles. delays are piling up. how are flyers holding up? our own david lee miller gets a first hand look for us. david lee? >> today marks six straight days of cancellations because of covid related staff shortages by major airlines. is there any end in sight? coming up live from la guardia airport, we'll have the details. >> jackie: not a lot of good news when it comes to travel. delays are stretching in to a sixth straight day. how are things holding up? david lee miller is live from la guardia airport. looking like the lines there, looks like people are tired. >> they are very tired, frustrated and exhausted. things here at term that a at la guardia airport, relatively mellow. systemwide, there's a lot of problems. today alone, more than 900 flights cancelled to land or take off in the u.s. were cancelled because of covid-related staffing shortages. now, good news is that number is an improvement over the day before. new cdc guidance says workers testing positive and without symptoms only now have to be quarantined for five days instead of the previous ten. for thousands of airline customers there's plenty of disappointment to go around. alaska airlines cancelled 12% citing the weather. they proactively reduced departures for de-iing and passengers are running out of patience. >> people are inconvenienced. i've been here at the airport at 9:00 p.m. just ready to get home. >> i come here, find out that they're delayed. >> according to the tsa, yesterday that screened two million passengers. while the flight disruptions have dwindled, they're not over. the problems related to covid will likely plague the holiday travelers that will return home and consider this, jackie, thursday, tomorrow, already there are 450 flights that are now cancelled. that is a number that will only see increase. jackie? >> jackie: a rough time of year for this variant to hit us and impacting people's lives. thanks for that. coming up, now to the grid iron. football fans mourning the loss of an icon. legendary nfl coach, broadcaster and hall of famer, john madden has died at 85. former nfl star harry carson is here to weigh-in on the passing of his hall of fame classmate next. ♪ limu emu... & doug ♪ ♪ superpowers from a spider bite? i could use some help showing the world how liberty mutual customizes their car insurance so they only pay for what they need. 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(swords clashing) and now you can search for thos-had enough?g details -no... arthritis. here. aspercreme arthritis. full prescription-strength? reduces inflammation? thank the gods. don't thank them too soon. kick pain in the aspercreme. >> jackie: welcome back. some breaking news to kick it off here. the jury has reached a verdict in the trial of ghislaine maxwell hardison is way more details on that, we certainly will bring it to you. but right now, we are talking about the nfl and its fans and they are morning today following death of a ball icon and hall of famer john madden. my next guest was inducted into the pro football hall of fame alongside the former coach and broadcaster. former new york giants, harry carson is with us. great to see you, harry. when you think about john madden, he was a coach, he was a broadcaster, had that huge video game franchise. essentially centered around ten. he is going to have a huge legacy here. a lot of people say there is nobody that loved this board more than he did. what did he mean to you? >> for me he meant different things at different times. you know, when i played, it meant that we when he and pat sumrall came together, i knew was going to be special. the fact that these guys were going to be here in the game, that made a difference. once he left football and he went into business and so forth, it still meant something to me because i have been like 30, 32 years removed from playing football, and last year, i was part of the madden team. so i the opportunity to be -- my grandson, my sons, they have been able to play harry carson from way back in the day. >> jackie: it is so interesting you see the photographs. you see the evolution of him. and his energy was just palpable, especially when he was broadcasting. he just brought the love of. and when you think about coaches, yeah, they coach teams. but it's more than that. many times people look for and sort of mimic their lives based on so many people of principle, that he will have a wider footprint, if you will, then just with the nfl. >> well, so many people who watch football but weren't really into football, john madden really made watching football popular. the way that he diagrammed plays, the way that he described various things that were happening on the field, the way he talked about the weight of players. you know, he was an everyday kind of guy that everybody can relate to. and i'm not going to go so far as to say he was like that old uncle, he wasn't. he was a guy who is very knowledgeable, and he knew had to get his point across. but he also was a guy who players really would run through walls for because they respected him that much. going into the pro football hall of fame, i went in with reggie white and troy aikman and warren moon. and the one person that i was really excited about going in with was john madden. because he was just one of those guys that, he was kind of an icon as far as i was concerned. he was a guy who is a straight shooter and in essence, i was amazed that it took him so long to get into pro football hall of fame and he was coming in with me. that is the reason why i think the 2006 class of hall of fame was the best group of hall of famer's to be inducted to the pro football hall of fame. >> jackie: harry, great to hear your thoughts and certainly is 85 years of being celebrated right now. may he rest in peace. i know a lot of people are going to miss and very great to talk to you today about that. thank you. once again, the jury of course saying that it has reached a verdict in the trial of ghislaine maxwell. stay tuned for more on that. we've obviously been awaiting that and we are going to continue to follow it. very closely as soon as they are willing to release what that verdict is and share it with us. ♪ ♪ >> hello, everyone. i'm emily compagno along with jason chaffetz, joey, leslie marshall, and tyrus. it is 5:00 in new york city, and this is "the five." we have a fox news alert. a verdict has finally been reached in the ghislaine maxwell trial. while we wait to get more details on that, we are going to take it around and get our thoughts on this really incredible case.