to -- [inaudible] count 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 assault with intent to murder and for each of those felony charges, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23 and 24 firearm of felony. do you want to come forward and sign the complaint and warrant? is there anything further regarding your client? >> no, your honor. >> may i approach? >> of course. [inaudible] okay. it's my understanding that we will be able to a rain mr. crumbley today. we will have him brought in. >> because the prosecuting attorney must be know filed, we believe he was an initial client he hasn't made contact with the juvenile parents. this is an insurance case that the parents -- >> i'm not sure, but they are identified as mr. and mrs. crumbley. so i assume that they are in the courtroom, their video is not on. i don't know if their audio is on. i assume that it is. so yes. thank you for bringing that to the court's attention and making a record of that. i can indicate that -- you are the parents of stephen crumbley, is that correct? >> yes, that's correct. >> that's correct. >> thank you. if you can state your full names, that would be great. >> i'm jennifer crumbley. >> james crumbley. >> thank you very much. anything else from the people before we bring stephen crumbley in and -- >> no, judge. i would like to speak to the bond at the appropriate time. >> all right. so for arraignment purposes, the people versus ethan crumbley, case 216611, again -- [inaudible] >> [inaudible]. >> judge, before we continue, full disclosure -- [inaudible]. >> absolutely. we'll continue in a breakout room with mr. crumbley and let us know when you're ready. >> thanks, your honor.that is correct information that you have been provided and i apologize. i was the attorney assigned to ethan crumbley on a juvenile matter. if he doesn't mean, i would like to join the breakout room with him. i've had an opportunity to advise ethan of his trial rights. i spent an hour talking with ethan and i want to make sure that he's comfortable. so if the court would allow me to go in the breakout room if mr. kovac, i wouldn't have no objection. >> no objection. >> let us know when you're ready. >> thank you, your honor. >> once she goes in the breakout room, we'll take a brief break when she's in there. want to take her out and put her back in? okay. all right. we're going to take a few minutes and then come back. we'll try to handle the cases as quickly as possible. >> neil: you're watching the formal arraignment of ethan crumbley, the 15-year-old being charged as an adult in the murders at the michigan high school yesterday that claimed a fourth life today. a 17-year-old student. the fourth victim succumbing to critical injuries that occurred yesterday. the assaults are many and the counts are many. four counts of first degree murder, seven counts of intent to murder, 12 counts of possession of a firearm. crumbley you might recall was arrested in the immediate aftermath of the shooting, taken in to custody. we also had a chance to see his parents were part of this arraignment process. we learned of it through police, the chief of police in the area that they had been with their son that morning on a school discipline issue that had come up over two days. first on monday and then separately meeting with some other teachers we're told the very next day. whether they were with him both days, it appears that they were. they were with him at the arraignment. we're keeping you posted on this. all of this comes at a time that we're learning that there's now apparently a massive amount of digital evidence, videotape, social media, that absolutely confirms that we can show this was a premeditated act. this is coming from the oakland county prosecutor, karen mcdonald, that said that this was not just an impulsive act. with us planned. it was very well-planned. let's go to steve harrigan following the developments in oxford, michigan. steve? >> neil, a lot of news coming out about this case and remarkable images from the courtroom where you saw the 15-year-old sophomore in a bulletproof vest slumped over. his parents in baseball caps on a different screen at the same time. we learned the 15-year-old will be charged as an adult. he will face four charges of first degree murder that show premeditation. he will face the charge of terrorism that causes death. an unusual charge the prosecutor explained that saying this entire community has been terrorized with the 15-year-old's actions. the prosecutor said there was a mountain of digital evidence to show that these shootings were premeditated. certainly raises the question if there was so much evidence out there online, why no red flags were raised. that's where the shooter himself, we're learning new details what went on yesterday. the 15-year-old walked up and down the hallways, firing a sig saur pistol hitting students in the head, in the body and shooting through barricaded doors to kill more. at this point, four dead, ages 17, 17, 16 and 14. seven people still wounded. certainly a lot of questions raised about what the school new and when. they had meetings with the 15-year-old the day before the shooting. the day of the shooting, two hours before the rampage, both parents, the shooter and administration officials met in that school. two hours later, he came out of the bathroom firing. neil? >> neil: steve, do we know whether he targeted his victims? the fourth that died and seven others that were injured. two critically. do we know whether they were his intended targets, that he was searching for them? >> officials right now are not saying either way, whether they were targeted or not. from the description of the firing, walking up and down halls, firing at people a at close range, it does not seem that he targeted the people hit. again, four killed, seven wounded. one teacher wounded an one 14-year-old. the numbers could change more, neil. >> neil: thanks, steve. i want to go to ted williams on what he makes of this, the former d.c. detective. we don't know what happened the two days that the young man now being -- ethan crumbley, 15, being arraigned as an adult. what transpired on the back-to-back monday and tuesday meetings including final one yesterday, two hours before the shootings. what do you make of this? >> well, you know, it appears that at this stage we're dealing with a disturbed young man, neil. what you just said, there was a meeting with this young man the day before and one yesterday with his parents. from what i've been able to glean and what is out there is that the gun that was used is a gun that his father had just recently purchased. while he was in this school and while he was doing this shooting, at one time while the students were barricaded in a classroom, it is alleged that he egged them come out, come out you're safe with the sheriff's department when in fact he was not actually with the sheriff's department. this is a horrific situation. it is sad. but law enforcement now, the investigation begins. there's a crime scene. and i can tell you, neil, there's a part of this investigation, they're going to do a social media scrub. they're going to have to talk to his friends. people who were teachers that knew him. folk in the community that may have known him. because from what i've been told also is that he's not talking, he's lawyered up and his parents and him have been told that they're not to speak to anyone concerning this case. so the investigation is going to continue, neil, unfortunately. >> neil: real quickly on that oddity where he's not speaking to authorities, he's treated as a minor in michigan a juvenile without getting parents and yet being arraigned an adult. >> they decided that they wanted to go forward with charges as an adult in light of the many individuals that have been killed here. but even if he's been treated as an adult, the moment he lawyers up as he has done, he does not have to say anything to anybody. so they're trying to determine what was the motive in this. that's the reason that they have to backtrack and speak to a lot of people in this investigation and check social media sites. >> neil: all right, ted. thanks very much for that. we'll be pursuing this story and getting more information on it. but the formal arraignment of this 15-year-old being arraigned as an adult on these charges, four charges of murder that go on and on and still questions as to why he did what he did. we'll have much more in that as it's available. i want to bring your attention to the corner of wall and broad. we had a huge sell-off. all of that having to do with omicron arriving in the united states. the first case reported in california. the administration was the first to sort of put out dr. anthony fauci on this first case that he suspected that could trigger news of other cases. peter doocy now at the white house with more on that. peter? >> the first reaction to this news, neil, from officials around here in trying to help people process that there's a new variant is to push existing vaccines and boosters. we're told that this infected person is doing better. their symptoms are doing better. they're considered if you recally vaccinated with two shots and quarantining in san francisco after a trip to south africa. >> this is what we call in medicine an n equals 1, which means that you really can't take anything away from a single patient. it is -- we feel good this patient not only had mild symptoms, but actually the symptoms appear to be improving. >> white house officials tell us the president will have more the say about the strategy for fighting covid this winter. for now, it's cause for vigilance, not panic. we know what it takes to limit the spread of covid. get vaccinated, good boosted and masking and distancing. some of the changes will require testing requirements for vaccinated americans. >> have you advised the president about the possibility of new testing requirements for people coming into this country? does that include everybody? >> the answer is yes. >> what about people that don't take a plane and the border crossers coming in in huge numbers? >> that's a different issue. we still have title 42 with regard to protection at the border. there's protections at the border that you don't have the capability. >> all of this is happening as the president admits that he's dealing with a could i individual crimped supply chain ahead of christmas. he said during his brief set of remarks that he cannot guarantee everyone's christmas gifts will arrive on time. he says, the president session, that the only person that can guarantee that is santa, neil. >> neil: i talked to santa. he's worried just so you know. thank you very much. wild day there at the white house. let's go to jonathan serrie. a lot of people are stunned by these developments, but the fact of the matter, jonathan, we had reports that this is already in 23 countries. the best tip off is earning early yesterday that canada was among them. now the issue is who is next, who is next, how big a deal this is, whether the existing treatments we have can address this or not. delays and possible responses going in to nextear what are you learning? >> we have more tools to deal with it, the treatments being developed and certainly powerful vaccines that they're still testing the efficacy of them against this particular variant. right now health officials believe with a reasonable level of confidence that full vaccination plus a booster shot will give you at least some protection, certainly protection against the most serious forms of disease. as we speak, san francisco health officials are conducting contact tracing on this case trying to see if anyone else was exposed to this traveler. the city does not plan to impose any new restrictions or mandates based on this case. moments ago, city officials wrapped up a news conference on this first confirmed u.s. case of the omicron variant. take a listen. >> this is not a surprise. for those of you following this, we knew omicron was going to be here, we thought it was already here. we just haven't detected it yet. so this is cause for concern. it is also certainly not a use to panic. >> white house covid response coordinator jeff zion issued this statement. >> some more details on this first u.s. case. it involves a person that recently traveled to san francisco from south africa, developed symptoms upon return and immediately reported it to physicians and went and got tested with the positive test, went into isolation. the patient had been fully vaccinated with two doses of the moderna vaccine, but had not received a booster shot. thankfully this case was very mild. the person in fact has already recovered. again, contact tracing is going on. one thing going on in san francisco's favor is that there's very high vaccination rates in that city and public health officials believe that that will slow the spread of this variant in that town even if it can't prevent it all together, neil. >> neil: thanks, jonathan. to dr. francis collins right now, director of the national institutes of health. we talked about the panic reaction, wall street gave this, the unknown, another step backward and see a variant that will take awhile to come up with a vaccine to treat. so of course, wall street, you know, sell first, ask questions later. did they overreact? you think this is worthy of the crisis reaction that investors had? >> well, i'm kind of surprised that the first case turning up in california is really seen as a big event. we've all been saying it's a matter of time. any time this week it was likely to happen considering as you've just said. more than 20 countries have had cases of omicron. there was a california resident coming back from a trip from south africa. was positive and is doing well. it's an indication. investors hate uncertainty. that's long been -- we have some uncertainty right now about how serious is this variant. is it highly transmissable? how severe is the disease it can cause and will the vaccines and the boosters fully protect us or do we have to think ant redesigning them. we don't have answers to them as clearly as we would like and it's going to be a couple weeks before. wall street will have to deal with uncertainty. i wish we could do this faster. >> neil: you're right not to be focusing on that. i do that for a living and compensate. let me ask you when the south african health minister was commenting on the cases in her country, that she was renering to the fact that they were mild. she and others in the region might be talking book because they don't want to be isolated from the world, travel restrictions imposed. that is already happening. do you think that some of the restrictions that had been put in place already and contemplation is still more warranted? >> it's smart to try to limit the number of infected individuals coming to the u.s. i'm totally supportive of what the president needed to do there in terms of blocking flights from south africa and countries close by. it's a really good idea now to get everybody having a test one day before they get on the plane to make sure people are not coming or already infected and also to require everybody to be vaccinated. but nobody should imagine that that is a perfect situation that will block other cases. i'll be surprised if we don't have additional cases of omicron in the united states in the coming week or two. mob should be surprised if that's the case. i think the big question is, really, how much should we be concerned whether that will change our plan. keep in mind, neil, right now all the buzz is about omicron. the disease that is killing people in the united states right now is delta. delta is still taking about 1,000 lives a day. we're not necessarily handling that one very well because of the limit in the number of people that have taken advantage of vaccinations and boosters. if omicron is waking people up a little bit to taking advantage of those things, then that, i guess, might be a silver lining. we do believe the vaccines are going to be our best protection and are the best protection now. >> neil: you know, you might think that would be the reaction. my thought, too, doctor. we heard from a number of people that say this is proof why i shouldn't get vaccinated because people keep having problems even those that have been fully vaccinated. so why the heck should i? what do you tell them? >> well, let's try to -- yeah, answer that question carefully. it's true that people that are fully vaccinated can still have break-through infections. but their likelihood of getting an infection is about ten fold less. their likelihood of getting really sick or dying is even greater in reduction. because a vaccine is not perfect doesn't mean you don't want to take advantage of it. i think the statistic that i'm surprised people haven't focused on is let's look at 1,000 people every day that are dieing in the united states of delta, are they vaccinated? no. they're almost all unvaccinated. if you wanted proof that the vaccines are saving lives, it's there in fronts of us every day. the boosters will do more than that. we know the vaccines tend to wane in their effectiveness after six months. if you're listening to, if you haven't gotten vaccinated, omicron is another run to do this for yourself and your family. if you have gotten vaccinated but not gotten around to the booster, it's recommended. everybody 18 and over. it's easy to find a place. vaccines.gov will tell you what is close to you. get the booster and you'll be better prepared for the holidays and more confident what is going on with this covid-19 is not such a threat to you. it's not that hard. it's pretty straightforward. look at the data, america. >> neil: i know. i had a break through case myself and it would have been worse had i not been vaccinated. when i tell that to people, they say you're mr. vaccine. in that case i guess i am. thanks, doctor. good seeing you again. i'll have you back to talk about the stock market another time. how is that? 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>> yeah, it's going to take a christmas miracle to get a loed of this done, especially the build plan to get it done by christmas. the man of the hour is, of course, senator joe manchin. self talking about him. his biggest gripe with this spending plan right now is paid family leave. he's not against the idea. he wants to see it in a separate bill. but these wants and wishes have democrats really losing patience with him. watch. >> some programs have been eliminated, ones that i dearly love have been eliminated at his request. now it's time for joe manchin and kirsten sinema to close the deal. for goodness sakes. enough is enough. >> enough is enough, he says. not certain that that will deter the moderate democrat from west virginia who, by the way, got an earful from constituents when he was home for the holidays. that's why he says he wants to look at this house bill through the lens of the ongoing inflation crisis. he doesn't like how this ten-year long bell is being paid for. there's social programs in this like universal pre-k that are written to last 1 to 6 years. that helps trim the price tag but the program will probably be extended in the future and somebody has to may for that. mitch mcconnell calls it total a counting fiction. manchin doesn't like it either. >> you're going to do something, do it for the ten-year period. don't do it for one year, three years, four years, whatever. that's disingenuine for the american public to understand. >> neil, it's not just a joe manchin issue. take a look at all of the items democrats still need to work out in this bill. not to mention it has still not gone through the bird bath as they call it, through the senate parliamentarian to clear senate rules, a long way to go. 24 days till christmas. who is counting? >> i have a feeling you'll be working christmas as the rate this is going. >> we'll see. >> neil: where do we stand on the build back better thing in particular? especially with some of the things that joe manchin has been saying. let's go to jim clyburn of south carolina, the mouse majority whip. great to see you, congressman. when i heard senator durbin, he sounded frustrated with joe manchin. that democrats have tried to get him everything he wanted, kyrsten sinema as well. are you frustrated with joe manchin? >> first of all, thanks for having me. >> neil: thank you. >> i think i am. durbin is correct. this whole notion that you're going to do something, do it for ten years or not at all, that is a fallacy. we ought to stop that foolishness. we don't know what conditions will be in two or three years, even if you were to fund it now for ten years and this dramatic change in our circumstances, there may not be for one or two years. so doing something for two or three years rather than ten is just -- is crazy to think that it must be ten or nothing. so he ought to be ashamed of himself for saying something like that. that is not the way the world works. >> neil: sounds like you're frustrated with this process and maybe there's a sense in the senate that this is falling apart. do you think that it's falling apart? >> no, i don't think it's falling apart at all. you have someone that seems to want to have his way or the highway. that's what this seems like to me. all of us have been getting outside of our comfort zones. durbin is right. he's given up a lot of things that he's comfortable with. we over here on the house side gave up a lot of things that we were comfortable with. you may recall when we did this bill, even in our own caucus, i asked the congressional black caucus, the hispanic caucus, the asian pacific islanders to get beyond their conference, get outside of your comfort zones. we did the same thing with the moderates to find common ground. this whole notion is that you are the only ones that must be comfortable with the process? that's not the way the world works. in government or family affairs by having it your way all of the time or no way. >> neil: isn't the fear, congressman, that it's the progressives having it all the way, they're ruling the roost and they're forcing this spending, it's not paid for from the cbo score as the president is stating and when people go back to various districts like senator manchin did, people gave him an earful about all of that. what do you think? >> i said that's not quite right, neil. did say that some things were not paid for under the calculations that they were using. they also said that if certain other things were to happen, it would be paid for. we just saw this analysis from moody's. that analysis indicates that not only will it be paid for, that we will contribute to a big reduction in the deficit. also said it would have a positive impact on this whole notion of inflation. so who are we supposed to believe? the people that are trying to score political points or independent house that moody's is? they don't have any political considerations here. so i believe moody's analysis to be closer to what is the fact. >> neil: they're about the only one. moodies might have a calculated interest in this. they underwrite bonds and the rest. if there's activity on building and municipal bonds, they're the guys behind it in the rating agency. you're right to say they're saying that. not many other financial types are. so i guess what i'm going to ask you here, americans are very concerned with run-away inflation and prices getting out of hand. the president says this is going to fix that. but almost every time the government has spent a lot of money, you do get inflation. there might be some benefits in the near term, but you do get inflation and it's only going to get worse. does that worry you for your party and a possible, you know, reversal of fortunes for democrats where you'll be the minority party after next year? >> we're for the country. party is secondary to me and it should be secondary to everybody. what we have now, everybody is thinking about the party of this, the party in that. who will win next year. who will be in the minority. let's get things going for the american people and let's worry about the politics after this gets done. >> neil: what if the american people, sir, aren't keen on this? >> how do you determine whether or not they're keen on it? if you look at the polling and i've looked at it, you have 65% of the american people saying this is what they want, so what does that tell us? more than 50% -- >> neil: are you saying there's a poll that says 66% of the american people like the build back better plan? >> i said 50 or 60. >> okay. >> yes. the build back better plan, the last number i saw was somewhere like 57, 58%. that's a fact. if you get 58%, you're in good shape. we call that a landslide in elections. >> neil: i'll have to watch it. i was not aware of that. congressman, always good having you. thank you for taking the time. >> thanks for having me. >> neil: jim clyburn. fair and balanced. i want to go to john barrasso, the senate republican conference chairman. chairman, very good to have you. let me get your sense on what the congressman was just saying, that, you know, this is going to get done. that manchin and by extension kristen sinema will settle their differences and this gets done. you talked to your republican colleagues, a man and woman that don't like this. do you think he's right about those two democratic senators? >> well, joe biden and chuck schumer say they want it done by christmas. that will make for a very long december because the democrats are going to run into a buzz saw of individuals in the senate that realize this will hurt the economy if they pass be sort of thing. it will break the back of the american people in terms of the taxes, in terms of the inflation, in terms of all of this additional government spending. i talked to joe manchin regularly. he and i have a committee meeting tomorrow, the energy committee. he has lots of concerns and so does senator sinema. my recommendation is they put the pause button on this to say let's take a look at this after the new year. inflation we know is getting worse. we know that the taxes are going to be a huge burden on the american people. i just heard the previous guest talk about how he says this is a popular bill. you start talking to people at home about components of this bill, they hate it. when they hear that there's five different new entitlements for illegal immigrants and including amnesty, when people know that there's all of this money for more irs agents, people to do additional audits, to spy on our checking accounts and banking accounts? they hate -- >> neil: you don't think this is going to come to pass. if i could get your sense of where democrats and republicans might meet on common ground to avoid a government shut down on friday. we're told mitch mcconnell and chuck schumer have had what is said to be productive discussions. do you think that that can be avoided? that they push this back, how will they do it, how will friday night look, senator? >> the goal is to keep government open. i'm something that is against government shut downs. what you're seeing here also is that chuck schumer has been the majority leader for a year. he's not brought a single appropriates bill to the senate all year. he can't get the nuts and bolts of -- >> neil: but the shut down thing, senator, do you think that there's enough republican support to avoid that and work on an agreement to push it back, set up the stage where they deal with the debt ceiling in two weeks? you said they should be doing that by reconciliation. leave it up to themselves. republicans won't help with that. where are you? >> yes, i believe it's all going to get done -- i'm a guy that introduced legislation that is called end government shut downs. i don't think we accomplish anything by shutting down if government. >> neil: so you don't think that will happen? >> i do not. >> neil: you will not be part of the push to raise the debt ceiling. democrats should make that happen or not? >> yes. i'm clearly not going to vote to raise the debt ceiling. i don't know a single republican that will vote for that. because it's so tied to this reckless tax and spending bill. if we're not going to default on our death. every time we had a debt ceiling vote, is idea is to have a discussion about getting the deficit under control. that's the opposite of what is happening here. the democrats want to raise the debt ceiling to do this massive socialist pending -- >> neil: you're both guilty of it, right? different ways of going about it. it happens all the time, right? >> every time it's done, it generates a discussion about a -- a serious discussion how we're going to get under y'all. that's not being done this time. this time they want to do it for reckless spending. >> neil: thanks, senator. very busy time in washington today. the supreme court may be hinting today given the questioning we heard in that chamber about a me sur that could undercut roe v. wade. i'm not saying remove it but maybe, maybe take it apart. after this. hi, my name is sam davis and i'm going to tell you about exciting medicare advantage plans that can provide broad coverage, and still may save you money on monthly premiums and prescription drugs. with original medicare, you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits. but you have to meet a deductible for each, and then you're still responsible for 20% of the cost. next, let's look at a medicare supplement plan. as you can see, they cover the same things as original medicare, and they also cover your medicare deductibles and co-insurance. but, they often have higher monthly premiums and no prescription drug coverage. now, let's take a look at humana's medicare advantage plans. with a humana medicare advantage plan, hospital stays, doctor office visits and your original medicare deductibles are covered. and of course, most humana medicare advantage plans include prescription drug coverage. in fact, in 2020 humana medicare advantage prescription drug plan members saved an estimated $8,400 on average on their prescription costs. most humana medicare advantage plans include a silversneakers fitness program at no extra cost. dental, vision and hearing coverage is included with most humana medicare advantage plans and, you get telehealth coverage with a $0 copay. you get all this for as low as a $0 monthly plan premium in many areas. and your doctor and hospital may already be a part of humana's large network. if you want the facts, call right now for the free decision guide from humana. there is no obligation, so call the number on your screen right now to see if your doctor is in our network, to find out if you can save on your prescriptions, and to get our free decision guide. humana, a more human way to healthcare. i booked our hotel on kayak. it's flexible if we need to cancel. cancel. i haven't left the house in a year. nothing will stop me from vacation. no canceling. flexible cancellation. kayak. search one and done. >> we are here today to empower women and promote life. >> any decision that allows courts to overright our basic rights is unacceptable. >> what most of us knew in 1973 is wrong. now the rest of the country has caught up. it's time for it to go. >> neil: no middle ground on the abortion issue. almost 50 years after roe v. wade, there's sign that's the supreme court is looking at unraveling that. easier said than done. shannon bream following it all in washington. shannon? >> yes, today what was at issue is this mississippi law that bans most abortions after 15 weeks. mississippi made clear and the lawmakers that backed and crafted this law said they wanted a direct run at roe v. wade. there's no pretense about that. today there was a lot of discussion about stare decisis or that you leave precedence alone unless there's an egregious error or construction that needs to be made by the court. justice brier was among the three liberal justices that said they were worried about overturning a precedent would think it's a political decision. here's what he said. >> feelings run high. it is particularly important to show what we do in overturning a case is grounded in principle and not social pressure. not political pressure. >> but justice kavanaugh was among those that said hey, listen, we've done this before when the court thought we got something wrong, something wrong in our past. it was a despicable decision and now we have progressed and we need to correct it. a list of decisions that will prove the cord will do it. here's more what justice kavanaugh said. >> if we think that the prior precedents are seriously wrong, if that, why then doesn't the history of this court's practice with respect to those cases tell us the right answer is the return to the position of neutrality and not stick with those precedents in the same way that the other cases didn't? >> we'll have to see if there's a majority of justices willing to go further. not only withholding the mississippi ban, which sounds like you can't predict, that they're willing to go the majority down that path but whether they're willing to go the next step, overturning roe or the progeny, casey. i don't know if the votes are there. we'll have to wait and see. the court will have their first secret closed door vote friday. from there, months of drafting opinions of trying to persuade and move votes. it's probably going to be neil not until the end of june or july till we know. that comes in the middle of the mid-terms. >> i was thinking of the same thing. thanks, shannon. meantime, this whole issue of the 15 weeks here, a lot about in this mississippi law that says abortions are not allowed after that stage, i brought that up with the mississippi governor, tate reeves who was telling me there's a reason for that. take a look. >> there's no guarantee to an abortion in our u.s. constitution. i'd go a step further and tell you not only is there not a guaranteed right, there's nothing in our u.s. constitution that would prevent a state, a state like mississippi from implementing and placing reasonable restrictions on abortions. >> neil: that restriction in your state's case is after 15 weeks. right? >> under the statute that is being tested at the supreme court, it is a 15-week ban. >> neil: you think it will -- the high court will affirm this and for the first time a time period by which you cut off all abortions, putting an actual time to it after 15 weeks? >> i believe that if the court were to read the united states constitution, the individual justices would read the constitution, i think they would recognize was roe incorrectly decided but i believe casey was incorrectly decided in 1992. >> neil: all right. the governor of mississippi, tate reeves. let's get the read on this from geraldo rivera. i know he doesn't seem that old but he was back there in 1973 following that case. he's kind enough to join us. john yu, the attorney general, law professor of the university of california at berkeley. thanks to you both. geraldo on what you think is shaping up to be not only turning it off but changing of roe v. wade? where do you think this is going? >> i would say that the odds are in favor of that, that conclusion. i believe that with the super conservative majority on this court now, with gorsuch, barrett and kavanaugh, the justices added by donald trump, it's now a 6-3 conservative super majority. i think they're very keen on overturning or modifying wade. you also have the technological aspect of it, neil. roe is based on viability. the fetus able to leave outside the woman independently. in 1973, 21 to 24 weeks maybe. this 15 week mississippi law is getting pretty close as the technology improved for taking care of, you know, fetal health. so i believe that you have a very strong circumstance here with the conservatives are in a position to modify profoundly roe v. wade. i believe that that is the odds on destination where the court is headed right now, neil. >> neil: if they do line up action geraldo said to their philosophical bend, a 6-3 conservative court, it certainly was mirrored in a lot of the questioning from the justices. what did you learn from that? >> i was around for roe but i don't remember it. i agree with geraldo's read. chief roberts vote may not matter here. you have the five conservatives throwing out a compromise. he might say okay, roe v. wade requires us to strike down laws that interfere with abortion before viability, which is around 23, 24 weeks of pregnancy. roberts says what is so bad about 15 weeks? wes to out the roe-casey frame work but still allow abortion up to 15 weeks? interesting things is, you didn't hear any other justices taking the bait for that compromise? the most startling thing to me listening to arguments is that justice kavanaugh, who is a big question mark, could be the fifth vote here to strike down or overturn roe. he seemed pretty clear that he wasn't going to pay much deference to past decisions and thought the court should be neutral. he repeated that several times. that will be a surprise for a lot of court watchers to see kavanaugh cop out so openly against precedent and possibly against roe. >> neil: interesting. geraldo in listening to justice sotomayor on the viability of a fetus or lack of explanation, i'm curious, geraldo, she was asking about the viability of the fetus and what is so special at that time, at that moment referring to the fact that with dead people, you can poke them on the foot or the hand and they would have a response but that didn't mean that they were alive. i don't quite know what she was getting at. the point being that there was nothing magical to that time or reading in to life at that time. what did you make of that? >> i think the court, neil, has struggled over the decades to find a line where the rights of the woman are now subordinate to the rights of the fetus. at what point does that happen? they're trying to draw the line. they're struggling with it. it's clear that viability as defined in 2021 will be what they hang their hats on and what the justification that they use to overturn this stare decisis, this concept that because the law -- the decision has been in place for decades and stood so many legal challenges it should be given a profound deference. i do believe -- you know, i think that what president biden has to do right now is to remind america of the movement that took place when i was a law school graduate in 1969 and 1970, the movement whereby they wanted to get abortions out of the back alley and they were talking about the women that died with coat hangers stuck into their wombs trying to abort the fetus themselves and provide a safe legal -- that's what roe was about, a single, pregnant poor woman in texas that wanted a safe abortion and couldn't afford to go to new york or someplace else to get one, this is very emotional. it's fraught with all of these competing equities. religion is deeply involved in this. but i believe that what they'll do is they'll use viability and move that line back from 24 weeks that john suggested and get it lower and lower and closer to mississippi. as chief justice roberts said, why not 15 weeks? i'm not stating my preference. i'm stating this is i believe what will happen with this court as it struggles with this epic problem here. >> neil: john, not a great deal of time left. if it reverts to something like geraldo said like the 24 weeks is moved back to 15 weeks, the analogy that some were using to say all right, difference people have to go to different states where there are other laws, would 15 weeks be the law of the land? i didn't understand that. >> no, 15 weeks is just mississippi's choice. if roe gets overturned, that doesn't mean abortion is banned throughout the country. it returns it to the states to make their own decisions. >> neil: so the 24 is not affected by this decision? >> right. this just means the supreme court will stop drawing those lines. in part the court said it's too hard. let states do it. >> neil: that means people are running back and forth to different states depending on what has the fewest restrictions. >> ohio, my state, neil, has fetal heartbeat law. if you can detect a heartbeat in the fetus, that's where abortion is illegal. that could be as early as six weeks. i think those laws in ohio and similar states, those laws will be ruled unconstitutional. i think there's going to be movement here and it won't please everybody. >> neil: it's a divisive issue whether you remember it or not 50 years ago. some changes, maybe big ones afoot. i want to thank them and you. here's "the five." day day hello, everyone i'm dana perino and jessica and jesse watters and greg gutfeld. this is new york city and this is the "the five." ♪ ♪ president biden and his administration being accused of ramping up hysteria around the new covid variant. the white house announcing today the first case of omicron was detected in california while the president is urging americans not to panic the white house is set tos impose 60 mandates and se