will argue that his trial should be transferred from state to federal court. >> i just don't think if the goal is to try to get this tried before the election, i have a hard time seeing how we complete one. >> the big pieces that came out of the debate are this moment when none could be sure about if they raised their hand or not. >> this is a defining moment. >> i really do believe more after last night that donald trump is not going to be the republican nominee. >> good evening, everybody. i'm jim acosta in washington. this is cnn's special coverage election 2024, the campaign and the courtroom. what a consequential week it has been, both the one we witnessed and the one coming. the case in georgia against donald trump is about to face a big test. we're just hours away from a hearing over a key co-defendant's attempt to move his case to federal court and potentially dismiss the charges. the hearing could have major implications for trump, who is now facing four separate criminal trials and made history this week as the first former president with a mug shot and an inmate number. trump and his 18 co-dets all surrendered this past week at the fulton county jail, and tomorrow the legal fight over when and where a trial will happen gets under way. amid all of these legal issues, trump remains the fund-raiser for the republican party nomination, and we could get a better sense this week if his legal calendar will in fact clash with the campaign calendar. cnn's senior crime and justice reporter katelyn polantz joins us from atlanta. what can we expect tomorrow, and why is this hearing about so much more than mark meadows? >> reporter: well, jim, it is going to be about mark meadows first and foremost, but it is about more than that because there are other people that want to do what mark meadows is trying to do here in this case, move the case from state court to federal court. donald trump has the ability to make that ask too although he hasn't done yet. the reason meadows is doing this is because he's trying to claim he has some sort of protection because he was a federal officer at the time of the actions he was taking that he's charged with here in georgia. and so the question at this hearing tomorrow, it could go many hours as far as hearings go. it could be a long one, is that were the things that mark meadows was doing such as being on calls, setting up calls, talking on calls with trump, reaching out to people in state positions in georgia, was he doing something that was part of his job in good faith as the white house chief of staff, or was he doing something that was a little bit more political? meadows is going to have to make his own case, but we do know that the state of georgia has subpoenaed four people for this, people who were ivy to various calls that meadows was taking part in or setting up, including that call to secretary of state brad raffensperger, where donald trump asked him to find votes. listen to just a piece of that where meadows speaks on that. the first voice you hear is not meadows. it is a lawyer who works with the state of georgia. >> i'm happy to sit down or have our lawyer sit down with the lawyers on that side and explain to him, hey, based on whate've looked at so far, here's how we know this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong. >> so what you're saying, ryan -- hold on. let me make sure. what you're saying is you really don't want to give access to the data. you just want to make another case on why the lawsuit is wrong? >> i don't think we -- i don't think we can give access to data that's protected by law. but we can sit down with them and -- >> but you're allowed to have a phony election? you're allowed to have a phony election, right? >> no, sir. >> reporter: so that's the type of evidence that the judge, the federal judge hearing this argument section tomorrow, is going to be looking at, potentially as well hearing from the multiple witnesses, including brad raffensperger who has been subpoenaed to this hearing to testify. so maybe a mini trial in some ways. >> and we did recognize the voice at the end of that clip there. there's also a hearing coming up tomorrow in the special counsel's january 6th case. that could be important as well. what can you tell us? >> it's all about trial dates, jim. that is going to be the conversation in a lot of realms from here on out for donald trump. he has these four cases that his lawyers are juggling and that different prosecutor teams are going to judges and trying to get dates on the calendar. and so what happens tomorrow is judge tanya chutkan, in the federal district court in washington, d.c., she is going to have a hearing, and she's very likely going to be talking about scheduling, talking about a trial date. there are requests on the table. the justice department wants a trial date to start very soon there. and then donald trump, he doesn't want the trial to start soon at all. that judge, she's going to be able to look at this and determine tomorrow very likely when that trial would start. and she's already signaled she might want things to move fast. it's a cleaner case than the one in georgia on the same topic related to the 2020 election in that trump is the only defendant in it. >> kate llyn polantz, we appreciate it. joining me now, former trump white house lawyer jim schultz. first i want to get your reaction to that historic mug shot of your old boss. his campaign says it raised more than $7 million since his arrest. i guess they're selling mugs and everything with the mug shot on it. it's bad, though, right, to have a mug shot taken, is it not? >> look, i don't think long term this is going to be beneficial for the former president, right? i think the initial hint among republicans who were making this argument that there are two tiers of the justice system, that narrative is going to continue. and as that happens, i think you're going to see as time goes by, i think you see that start to wane as we get to hearings, as we get to trials, and as we get to other legal proceedings associated with all of these cases. >> yeah, and i have to think, and we have a member of the biden team who's going to join us on the show shortly. you know, they're going to be showing this mug shot from here until kingdom come. you're going to see this mug shot on tv, in ads, over and over again, digital ads, you name it, from now until november of 2024. would you, if you were still his lawyer right now, advise him, you know, listen, you might be able to get out of this republican primary process and win that, but you're a goner in the general election? >> i don't know that the mug shot itself is going to be the turning factor on any of this. i think the conduct is going to be something that is the turning factor on this and the allegations as part of the legal proceedings and what's going to come out of the legal proceedings. i'm not sure that the mug shot is going to be the thing that drives this thing home in terms of a general election. and i do think as hearings start going, as hearings start happening and you see trials start beginning, that, you know, those things have some impact on him politically. >> and mark meadows is hoping to move his case to federal court, claiming he was acting under his federal role as the white house chief of staff. trump, i suppose he'll do the same, but he hasn't done that yet. what do you make of meadows trying to make this case? clearly we just played a clip of him on that phone call with the georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger. i suppose the only thing you can say about what he was doing as the white house chief of staff is that he was trying to keep that job because other than that, i don't see how he was acting as the white house chief of staff. >> look, it is a very -- the job of the white house chief of staff is a very broad one, right? you serve the president. you serve the country. there's a number of different places, and the white house chief of staff is even permitted to be political in some ways under the regulations and guidelines. that being said, and the other thing is the threshold to get it removed is not all that high. all it has to be is some causal connection between some of his duties that he does as white house chief of staff and then some colorable claim under federal law in terms of a defense. >> but he was trying to get the election overturned. he was just trying to get election results thrown out. that's clearly a political thing he was doing, right? what was he doing as the white house chief of staff there? >> there is -- so serving the interests of the president and serving the -- in that role, serving the interests of the president of the united states. i'm not defending that this is something that is something that -- >> he was serving his political interests. >> he was serving his political interests. i just believe that a judge is going to take a close look, and it's going to be examined closely by a judge in terms of what role mark meadows was playing there. was there any touch to his governmental -- to governmental interests in that discussion in terms of the service that he was providing to the president? i think it's a tough case, but the standard is so low that i think we can't be assured that a judge isn't going to go the other way on this thing. >> and let me ask you this. you worked for donald trump. you worked in his white house. do you think that there's any chance whatsoever that he would accept a plea agreement if it means keeping him out of jail? i mean as much as he is trying to make a mint off of his mug shot, i can't imagine he wants to spend any time in the slammer. >> look, this state case is probably going to get heard two years down the road. i know what the trial date is, but state cases tend to drag on. there's going to be a lot of motion practice in the state case. i do believe that the federal cases are going to go fairly early. i think you could see a trial in the spring in the january 6th matter, and then shortly thereafter, see something in the documents case. only in the documents case a little longer because you have to go through all the -- you know, the confidential, the classified information procedures act. you know, those are the issues that have to be heard by appellate courts as both sides appeal them. >> but do you think he would take a -- >> which is probably three to four months. >> but, jim, do you think he would take a plea deal because he was putting out this mug shot. that would be surrendering if you were to accept a plea agreement. >> so i don't see a plea agreement in any way, shape, or form perhaps until after -- and the lawyers will have to consider this with their client -- until after he's potentially convicted in one of those cases, where then he says, okay, i'm facing jail time now. i'm staring down jail time, federal jail time. i have another federal case coming. what am i going to do now? i think that's when folks are going to start talking about agreements. but until he's convicted in one of those cases, i don't see him taking a plea deal. i just don't. >> all right. jim schultz, thanks very much for your time. we appreciate it >> thank you. as we were say mark meadows wants his case move to l court. at least two co-defendants wants a speedy trial. a breakdown of all the legal maneuvering when our special coverage continues next. from big cities, to small towns, and on main streets across the us, you'll find pnc bank. helping businesses both large and small, communities and the people who live and work there grow and thrive. we're proud to call these places home too. they're where we put down roots, and where together, we work to help move everyone's financial goals forward. pnc bank. i'm patriotic kenny. and, hi, i'm amanda on tiktok. my scooter broke down. i went into a depression. how do you feel about that? pretty sad. and i posted it to show that kenny's not always happy. within 24 hours people had donated over $5,000. no, you're kidding. we set up the patriotic kenny foundation to give mobility scooters to veterans. it has changed my life tremendously. none of this would've happened without tiktok. businesses need 5g solutions today. that's why they choose t-mobile for business. mlb partners with t-mobile to not only enhance the fan experience, but to advance how the game is played. aaa relies on t-mobile's network to stay connected nationwide, so they can help get their members back on the road. and we're helping pano ai innovate, to stop the spread of wildfires. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. your brain is an amazing thing. but as you get older, it naturally begins to change, causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. 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(farmers mnemonic) just hours from now, we'll get our first peek at how fulton county district attorney fani willis plans to prosecute her anti-racketeering case against former president donald trump. the georgia interference probe will take center stage in a court hearing tomorrow morning where mark meadows will ask a federal judge to move his case to federal court or dismiss it altogether. let's turn now to some legal experts. cnn legal analyst elie honig and carrie cordero. elie, let me start with you. what do you think we're going to learn from this hearing tomorrow? i was kind of curious about this. might there be some nuggets or easter eggs lurking in tomorrow's hearing that may be some new information we haven't heard before as fani willis is trying to justify keeping this case in fulton county? >> for sure, jim. i think really what we're going to see tomorrow could be sort of a micros could of the issues that are going to be presents at the trial. essentially what mark meadows is going to be arguing is i was doing my job as chief of staff. fani willis is going to be arguing, no, you were committing the crimes i charged you with. brad raffensperger is on the receiving end of the infamous phone call where trump asks him to find votes. mark meadows is on that call. this georgia state investigator, frances watson, who is another person who mark meadows directly sort of dealt with, interacted with, texted with about trying to look for new votes and to take another look at the election in georgia. so it's really going to be sort of a preview of, i think, the determinative issue at trial tomorrow. >> carrie, meadows is not the only defendant to ask for their case to be moved to federal court. david schaefer and kathy latham, who served as a fake elector, both filed similar notices. they claim they were just acting at trump's direction. do any of these defendants have a chance, and what do we make of what's going to happen with this case with all of these defendants ping-ponging in different directions, wanting different things. it sounds like it could be chaotic. >> there certainly are a lot of different moving parts because so many different defendants and defendants who are coming at this from very different perspectives from the former president down to the state-level individuals. so the people who have a decent claim when it comes to removal to federal court are the individuals who are actually federal employees. mark meadows, i think, probably has the strongest among the claims. that doesn't mean i think he's necessarily going to be successful, but he's not bringing a frivolous action to try to get this removed. he was a federal officer. he was serving as chief of staff. i think his is the strongest case. another individual, something like jeffrey clark, who was a senior ranking justice official, also could make the argument. they're going to have to argue what they were doing was in their scope of responsibility or related to their government position. that's a hurdle they'll have to jump over. but individuals who were not employed by the federal government, who were not federal officers, really don't have a good argument to remove it to federal court. >> elie, i guess trump is expected to do the same thing. that could be part of his team's delay tactic, but also a way to undermine the rico charges brought against him and his co-defendants. and i suppose, you know, if mark meadows gets his way and he's plucked out of this case and all of a sudden you have fewer co-defendants, the case could still go forward to trial, i imagine. it would just be without him as a defendant. >> yeah, there's a lot of different people pulling in a lot of different directions here. if mark meadows or more than just mark meadows succeeded in getting this case moved to federal court, then we're going to be on two tracks. whether that serves donald trump's interests, i think it would. i absolutely expect him to bring this motion. he's not done so yet, but as carrie said, he was a federal officer. i agree with carrie, he does not have as strong an argument as mark meadows, but if donald trump can get this case into federal court or mark meadows, it's a game-changer. it gives them a more favorable jury pool. it probably sets them up to send this case up to a very conservative federal court of appeals and ultimately it enables them to ask the judge to dismiss the case if they can show they were acting within the scope of their federal duties and not outside that scope. so there's a lot of really important advantages here to whether any of these defendants makes the leap from state over to federal court. >> carrie, georgia secretary brad raffensperger is supposed to testify at this hearing tomorrow. meadows was on that now infamous call where trump asked the secretary to find more votes to help him win in georgia. we've all heard that. but let's play it one more time. meadows was on that call. welayed a little bit of this earlier. let's play a clip now. >> what i'm hopeful for is there's some way that we can -- we can find some kind of an agreement to look at this a little bit more fully. the president mentioned fulton county, but in some of these areas where there seemto be a difference of where the facts seem to lead. and so, mr. secretary, i was hopeful that, you know, in the spirit of cooperation and compromise, is there something that we can at least have a discussion to look at some of these allegations to find a path forward that's less litigious. >> i mean, carrie, it's remarkable to think that took place four days before january 6th. but the other thing, i guess, is that fulton county district attorney fani willis, she's going to be pointing to this call and what mark meadows was doing on that call, and essentially saying that's not very chief of staff-ish. >> right. so the argument she's going to make contemporary to what he's going to argue, which is that this was in the scope of his federal responsibilities as chief of staff, she's going to say, no, that phone call is an example of the type of activity that goes beyond the scope of the activities in his actual chief of staff role and was a violation of georgia law. and that's the whole basis for her case that this was a conspiracy and racketeering activity to violate georgia election laws and undermine the outcome of the election. so there really is, in the mark meadows case, there really is some fundamental issues that go just to the heart of her prosecution overall. >> all right. elie honig, carrie cordero, thanks to both of you very much. they say a picture is worth a thousand words. will the strategy to use his arrest for political advantage work? we'll discuss it further when our special coverage continues. that's coming up in just a few moments. stay with us. tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs. that can be analyzed by ai in real time. ♪ so researchers can identify which areas are 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>> one thing i can tell you from having worked for president biden closely for a very long time is he takes the separation of the justice department and the courts from the white house and the executive branch incredibly seriously. it's something he believes is foundational and critical to our government to be able to function. there's the question of the actual criminal proceedings, which the president will not touch and has not touched. and then there's the political strategy. and i think what you saw from president biden during the campaign in 2020 and as you see now is the campaign apparatus is going to continue to draw a really clear contrast. they are going to make clear these are the stakes. there's nothing less than our democracy at stake here. and he's never shied away from laying out those stakes, from calling out donald trump for behavior that he believes is fundamentally eroding the country. but you can do that in a way that respects the separation of the justice system and the executive branch, and president biden feels really strongly about doing that. >> but i was asking jim schultz about this earlier on the program. you guys are going to show that mug shot a gazillion times between now and november 2024. why wouldn't you? >> i think first of all, the media will do that for the campaign. i don't know that the campaign has to do that. but, look, the other thing i would say here is that the only person who is politicizing this process, the only entity that is politicizing this process is donald trump and the trump campaign. i mean he's out raising money off of his own mug shot. so the idea that there is, you know, pearl clutching from the republican side about a politicization of this moment, it doesn't quite pass the smell test. >> are they trying to have it both ways? the trump campaign has been saying $7.1 million raised since the mug shot. >> and we know that a significant amount of money that they are raising is being diverted to pay for these legal fees. but, listen, jim, they have successfully convinced a good majority of the republican base, or i would say the base there, their supporters, that this fight is their fight too. and so, you know, you do see a little bit. i just got back from iowa. you do see a little bit of trump fatigue, and it seems like people are saying things differently publicly and privately. for instance, in a private conversation i had with an iowa pastor, he told me he was frankly embarrassed by all of this. he voted for trump in 2016 and 2020. he's not going to vote for him again this time around. but they have successfully made this argument to the conservative base that this is their cause and that they should be financing, you know, this legal battle. >> audi, mike pence was on cbs today. here's what he said about the fellow republican candidates backing what he did on january 6th. >> it was heartening, but it wasn't anything new. i welcome the fact that almost everybody on that stage made it clear that i did my duty that day, and i think the american people deserve to hear where every single one of the candidates for the republican nomination stand. >> audie, your impression of mike pence, how he's handling this. is there a chance for him to move the needle in any way, or is he just going to be that guy? >> nothing will ever move the needle for mike pence. i can say that with confidence. >> there are going to be some republicans who are steamed at him, and they always will be. >> that's been consistent throughout. i think the thing i found most significant in the last few days is vivek ramaswamy saying what he would have done on january 6th. and what was interesting about if is he said, i would do x, y, and z, election reform, et cetera. and then on that condition, i would certify the vote. this is really important because the litmus test for being president trump's vice president would be to do what he asks on the next january 6th, right? and pence already said to the nation, to the people on that stage, to the courts, i don't have the power as vice president to noodle around with the certification of the process. but that's not the lesson that anyone has taken away from this in terms of the fallout, right? if you want to be at the front of the party, if you want to have the attention of the party, you have to look out and say, look, i'm going to do things differently from pence, and that means i'm going to do what it takes to stop them, whoever the them is at any given time. >> it's been said some of these candidates are running for vice president. mike pence is not running for vice president this time around. that job is not going to be able to him. >> and the comments in ramaswamy's book when he talks about the former president are far more biting than when he says now. >> and ramaswamy's answer just on the january -- he ducked it at the debate. >> exactly. >> he shrunk at the debate, and then afterwards and now today has given a completely nonsensical idea. well, i would have stood up there in my capacity as president of the senate and forced them to pass this law and that law, as though the president of the senate, the vice president can wave some magical wand. it was insane. >> your eyebrows are going like this as you're saying that, but the truth is we have witnessed now, after january 6th, people coming out of the woodwork with their legal theories saying that that's the case. it widens the aperture of what is acceptable and what is not. i think we're going to see more and more candidates like this on the trail going into 2024, maybe senate, people running for senate, et cetera, who are going to say, you know what else we could have done that time? you know who else you could have called? it's just free speech. i think we're watching that window open of what is acceptable and what is not. >> everyone else on the stage supported mike pence on the debate except for ramaswamy. i think he looked like a fool today frankly to stand out. he is depending on people being completely and totally without knowledge when it comes to the constitution and the way laws are made and the senate works. i don't think that shtick is going to work. i think pence got a fair amount of support on the stage and i think he deserves it. >> everybody stay with us. we'll be right back. and great savings. 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(psst psst) flonase. all good. here's why you should switch fro to duckduckgo on all your device duckduckgo comes with a built in engine like google, but it's pri and doesn't spy on your searches and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooki and creepy ads that follow you a from google and other companies. and there's no catch. it's free. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you around showing the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. the republican presidential field speaking out about the racially motivated attack at a dollar store in jacksonville, florida. ron desantis was in jacksonville earlier this evening and he said he condemns the shooting in the strongest possible terms. mike pence calling it an act of evil, adding he'll push for the death penalty in anyone engaged in a mass shooting. the panel is back. let me go to you, audie. the one thing i wanted to ask you about is ramaswamy the other day saying out on the campaign trail that white supremacy is like a unicorn. and then this happens in jacksonville. i mean unicorns don't exist. >> well, to be clear, i mean a few years back, mike pence says that systemic racism was a left-wing myth. i don't think this is an unusual concept within the party to talk about, to say that at best, this idea is somehow overstated, false, part of some sort of general hysteria. it kind of tumbles on from there. it's interesting to see them in this moment because the sad fact of being president of the u.s. is at some point, you will have to address the nation after a mass shooting. and how will you be able to do that? how will you address the factors at play in that moment? how will you be able to comfort the communities who may feel targeted? this is kind of their moment to give us a glimpse of what that might look like. >> scott, donald trump dealt with a situation like this in 2017. i was with him at that press conference when he said very fine people on both sides, and it just seems as though to audie's point, this has not been adequately addressed in the republican party to confront white supremacy and white supremacist violence head-on. and there seems to be a temptation to really downplay it and diminish it as much as possible. >> i didn't hear anybody downplaying it or diminishing it today. you just read the statements of ron desantis and mike pence and others. i do think ramaswamy's comments the other day calling it a unicorn were clearly wrong. it clearly exists. anti-semitism exists. white supremacy exists. you have to be ever vigilant about it. you can say i think it's overapplied as a political slur. but to say something flat-out doesn't exist when we have evidence of it, it makes you sound like you're just not ready. >> don't forget we have these republican candidates standing on a debate stage, essentially falling all over themselves to kowtow to donald trump, who himself stood on the debate stage and spoke directly to the proud boys and told them to stand back and stand by when he was president of the united states. so the idea that all of these candidates had the opportunity standing on the debate stage this week to say in unquestionable terms that they will not carry forward this ideology of dog whistling and overtly carrying forward white supremacy in their politics, and they didn't do it. and that is appalling, but also that's frightening, and it will continue to be, i think, a huge piece of this race as we move forward too. >> but your debating point is that if you have supported donald trump or a republican candidate for president, then that inherently makes you a supporter of white supremacy or racism, and there's not a -- >> don't misrepresent what i said. i said these candidates had the opportunity to stand onstage and call out the atrocious ways that donald trump uses race to engage his base, and we all saw him do it. he was president for four years. and they don't do that. i didn't say that every person who supports donald trump is a racist. >> this is what the internet sounds like in a nutshell, right? someone brings up this sort of point. someone else says, i think you're going a little bit far saying everyone's a racist just because of x, y, and z. it goes from there with no real resolution, right, and no real dialogue about the deaths of people involved or what could be done to prevent it. i think this is one of the things we're going to wrestle with going into 2024. one of the things ramaswamy talks about is being too woke. it's part of a longer dialogue that says, have we gone too far? and if we have, then you should come over to our side. they think that there is a sliver of voter, independent voter, who will be inclined to that argument. >> desantis has tried to make a lot of hay of this down in florida. today he was down in jacksonville giving a press conference, speaking to the people at that vigil in jacksonville, was being shouted at. there was a local councilwoman who essentially came to his rescue during that event. some of this is backfiring on him. >> maybe. also remember there's greater context there. he's got this kind of voter police commission. i don't know if anyone can help me out here, that is going around looking for fraud. of course it's happened to target several voters who are african american with false charges in the end. so there's other things going on between him and his voters that you see come out in these moments when you're arriving, trying to offer comfort, and instead people remind you that you've been hostile. >> but i think the reason why there's the reluctance to talk about this with any sort of nuance or fluency is because there's real pushback from conservative voters. so one of the things that you will often hear at a tim scott event, from conservative white voters, is we are tired of being called racist, and we like senator scott because he is moving beyond that, for instance. so you're not going to see these candidates really try to talk about systemic racism in a holistic way because there doesn't seem to be an appetite for that within the party and among their voters. >> yeah, but leadership also calls for talking about things the voters don't want to hear about sometimes. that's a big part of this too. stand by. while former president donald trump turned himself in for a fourth time this past week, president biden was wrapping up his summer vacation. but now a busy september awaits. we'll talk about that next when our special coverage continues. from big cities, to small towns, and on main streets across the us, you'll find pnc bank. helping businesses both large and small, communities and the people who live and work there grow and thrive. we're proud to call these places home too. they're where we put down roots, and where together, we work to help move everyone's financial goals forward. pnc bank. it's because of tiktok that i had to go out and get a website. i'm at a point now where i've outgrown my house. growing up, every time i'd get out of the shower, i would itch. my first experience with goat milk soap, it kinda was like a light bulb moment. tiktok is a fantastic platform for diy. if you'd have told me three years ago that i would own my own business and be expanding into a separate building, i would've told you you'd lost your mind. your wyndham is waiting. ♪ when bucket lists need checking... points need redeeming... work trips need crushing... or anniversaries need... celebrating? 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[it's the final game, folks. this one wins the series.] struck out with the cheap seats? important things aren't worth compromising. at farmers, we offer both quality insurance and great savings. (crowd cheers) here, take mine. (farmers mnemonic) we're heading into another critical week for former president trump with key hearings in two of his four criminal cases, and it's an important time to remind folks that president biden as well has some critical days ahead as he returns to washington from vacation. my panel is back. audie, what are you watching for this week? >> with biden specifically? >> yeah. >> it seems like he'd want to stay out of the way of general trump news and be in a do-no-harm situation. but maybe i'm guessing. i'm looking to you. >> here's the thing. i sort of agree with that. the way that i think about it and the way i think the white house thinks about it is, yes, national media is going to be consumed by donald trump this week. what president biden can do is continue to go out and make local news. he can get to get on the front page of local papers. i think for him, what he's got to do is continue to sell his economic agenda, sell the successes. we know that people are not feeling some of the impacts of the agenda yet. so being i think also continue to drive on these core contrasts of choice and we're talking about the shooting in the previous segment. gun violence and drawing these core contrasts with the republicans. >> is one of president biden's superpowers that he sucks up all the energy. >> there's a lot more sorrow than that. given what donald trump represents and what he's done to the fabric of this country. but i will say what president biden's super power i would argue is peaking to people about the things that matter in their life. he's very good at doing that. the challenge is getting heard. right. the challenge is going into these communities and making sure that you're getting coverage and landing in a way where people are seeing it. that's a challenge for the communication staff. that's what the president will continue to focus on this week while all of the national media is consumed by donald trump. >> i am surprised to hear that the most powerful person is having difficult being heard. he is tied to the man who has been arrested in the national league except for one. he is under a special counsel investigation and his son is under special counsel investigation and is at risk of going to jail at some point. he has a lot of legal problems. his saving grace is that he might beat donald trump. if we nominate someone south of 70 and not in jail he's going to have a very difficult time overcoming very difficult political circumstances he's having right mow. >> there's an upside to get out of the mud and beating trump. he's going to have to aggressively campaign. avoid embarrassing moments, fund raise. i think there's further to inflaming the situation with trump that is already pretty inflammatory. >> when you're out on the campaign trail talking to a lot of political voters, what do they say about joe biden, what are they saying out there. >> i think there's no love. >> that's the flattery picture. >> what's the chris criticism. sort of personal stuff, the stuff they hear on fox news or the economy, inflation. >> it's mostly the economy, and wanting a steady hand. even with the frustration with the former president they felt that they were in a better economic condition. so i wouldn't say that biden is as galvanizing for conservative voters as trump is for democratic voters. but there is no love there. >> audi, what do you think? >> i mean, you said numbers in pa very vague way. it would be good to hear a little more about what you're talking about. but the economy has been a very difficult thing for anyone to explain. why you have such great unemployment numbers but at the same time, you have people who and increases in wages and people who still feel like they are crunched. and i think this is the kind of thing that will become a problem over time for the current president. what's going on with rents, what's going on with prices and have people spent down their pandemic savings to the point that there's nowhere else to turn. that stuff could start to hit early next year. this week though, it's just like, netflix and chill. he should do nothing and say nothing and as you said, let the air in the room be sucked up by our own reporting, right. about one specific person. >> let me just ask your question to be more specific. numbers as in poll numbers. >> i thought you meant economic numbers. >> his numbers on the economy and every major national survey are in the 30s. it is terrible. it's inflation. it's people having economic anxiety, it's getting worse and worse. you say it's a problem of not being heard i think it's a problem of people feeling it in their every day life and telling them that they're misunderstanding their own feelings is not going make a difference. >> and that's not what he says. he talks about we need to do better and people are having that economic anxiety. inflation coming down, consumer confidence going up. this is an enormous challenge and it's also a reason why it is imperative for the biden campaign to make this a contrast. to talk the freedoms that republicans are trying to strip. to talk about unfeathered gun railroad crisis. it is incumbent on the campaign to remind people elections don't happen in a vacuum. as the president likes to say don't compare me to the all mighty, compare me to the competitor. >> thanks everyone for all of that. we'll be right back. to innovn m you really got the brows. ♪ shelves. shelves that know what taste buds want. shelves smart enough to see, sense, react, restock. ♪ so caramel swirl is always there for the taking. 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(farmers mnemonic) wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. it's to die for. and it's all right here. streaming was never this easy, you know. this is the way. you really went all out didn't you? um, it's called commitment. could you turn down the volume? here, you can try. get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. i may be known for my legendary football career, but truth is, i love a bunch of sports. the only trouble is knowing where to find them. that's why i got xfinity. so, i can easily find and watch whatever sport i'm into all in one place without missing a thing. even if it's football, australian football, or football football. in a word—it's fitz-credible. i got to trademark that one. this season, eligible xfinity rewards members can get up to $100 off nfl sunday ticket from youtube. sign up for xfinity rewards now. c1 a busy summer for donald trump's lawyers and the investigation of the former president is not slowing down this week. mark meadows motion to move his case to federal court and possibly have it thrown out. there's also a hearing in jack smith's federal election hearing case where a trial date may be set. we'll be following both important hearings so stay with cnn for the latest throughout the day tomorrow. and thank you very much for skwroeupbg us this evening. it's been a long afternoon and evening. glad you're spending it with us. i'll see you next weekend of course. and the cnn original series what happened to rudy giuliani is next. coming up. hello and welcome to our viewers joining us here in the united states and all around

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