i did nothing wrong. >> donald trump's fourth indictment gives supporters an opponents an image to rally behind. >> they will remember this as much as they remember his presidential portrait. plus, rebuking ramaswamy. >> i've had enough of a guy who sounds like chatgpt. >> you have no foreign policy experience and it shows. >> and you know what -- >> it shows. >> how the 38-year-old political newcomer ended up at the center of the first gop debate. and biden's re-election challenge. considering the left he's on their side. what is his plan to do it? good morning and welcome to "inside politics sunday," i'm manu raju. the nation is waking up to another horrific shooting. three black americans killed at a dollar general store in jacksonville, florida. authorities say the gunman who also is dead left behind a racist manifesto. we'll have more on this and the political reaction later in the program. but first donald trump has taken countless photos during his 40 plus years of celebrity real estate mogul and television personality and politician and last week he added to that total this time as a criminal defendant. here it is. an image you've likely already seen. one that we're sure to see plenty of as the 2024 campaign pushes ahead, especially probably most specifically from his own campaign. because within hours of trump '24 website it had mug shot. you could stick it on the back of a car and of course you could sip your morning coffee from a trump mug shot mug. now the trump campaign said it has raised more than $7 million since thursday night. as for trump himself, he spent 20 minutes at the fulton county jail on thursday being booked and processed and spend another 20 minutes recapping the experience on newsmax. >> i came in and i was treating very nicely. but it is what it is. i took a mug shot. which i never heard the words mug shot. that wasn't -- didn't teach me at the wharton school of finance. i went through an experience today that i never thought that i would go to through. but then i've gone through the same experience three other times. in my whole life, i didn't know anything about indictment and now i've been indicted like four times. >> all right, let's discuss this and monther with eva mckend, eli stokols and mario parker and margaret talev from axios. so a lot about -- this is a historic moment. we've been saying this a lot because there is a lot of history made this year including first mug shot for a former president here. this is how john bolton, trump's former national security adviser described that mug shot. >> he could have smiled. he could have looked benign and instead he looked like a thug. and i think it is in tended to be a sign of intimidation against the prosecutors and judges. >> clearly a trump campaign trying to capitalize on this. does it have an impact on the race. >> when your slogan for surrendering is never surrender, it encapsulated the theme of the last week has been all about. i mean, look, right now we know that donald trump has such a commanding lead in that gop field that none of the candidates could figure out quite how to handle a debate stage and no one has figured out how to break through or crack it. i don't think we will know how much impact this will have three months from now, six months from now as the case proceeds. at this moment, i think the mug shot sort of thought process on the trump campaign side was more about him not looking weak or afraid. i really see it -- yes, it is a fundraising move and it is successful fundraising move, but i saw it as sort of defensive also. >> and the polls also indicate what you were saying there, marg re -- margaret. and donald trump had a commanding lead and it's grown from february to august. 10 points he's up since then. you see ron desantis down 12 points. there has been an uptick among some of the other -- only vivek ramaswamy. and we'll talk about the race in the next segment. but what you i do, mario, about why the candidates are not making any headway in light of these indictments? >> well they're scared. they're scared that 30% of the republican base that donald trump wields, they see that base has been energized going back to the alvin bragg case and they're feared of taking a risk for their prospects. because in order to punch the bully or get past the bully, you have to confront the person in front of you before you could talk about pivoting to joe biden. >> and they are not doing that. and this came up in the debate last week when it was put to ron desantis about the -- all of the candidates about the trump indictments and desantis wanted to move on. >> is this what we're going to be focussing on going forward? the rehashing of it. the democrats would love that and they will win if we let them. >> governor desantis, we spend an hour talking about policy and former president trump is beating you by 30, 40 points in many polls so it is a factor in the gop primary. >> do you think the dooepesanti campaign is handling this correctly. >> it is clear what he was trying to do in the debate. and move past the question. but that is the fundamental question of the primary and they clearly don't wan to deal with it. so until someone comes up with a way to go at trump, they all attacked vivek ramaswamy as a proxy for trump because they're scared to go after trump. so the trump 2.0 candidate, they could go after him kind of sad and tells you where they are in the race if they all have to punch up at vivek ramaswamy and elevate this guy nobody has really ever heard of until the debate. but go back to the mug shot for just a second. that is a face that we've seen from trump before. it is not that different actually from his official portrait. the portrait that hung in government buildings and post offices was the same face. that same glouerring trump face that is his look and what he wants people to see. but it does just kind of make clear how completely -- how bipolar our politics are and we're living in two different worlds where he could raise $7 million off that photo from his base and yet be totally fine giving joe biden's campaign ultimately an image to put on ads to remind people with a single image, this is an opponent who has been indicted four times. >> and the legal problems, we'll get into later in the program about the calendar is just going to completely consume the presidential election season. but for voters, at what point did republican voters say these legal problems could be problematic for our nominee of our party? >> well the base of the party, if you speak to them, i was recently in iowa are just not there yet, manu. but i can't get out of my mind that republicans have long claimed ownership of law and order. sometimes in explicitly racialized ways. and now the standard bearer, the face of their party is facing four criminal indictments, and is fundraising off of a mug shot. so our politics are truly upside down in this country. the very same institutions that republicans have long held up as part of the example of why america is a great country, there are now castigating those very same institutions. so it is -- i mean, really, post trump we'll never be the same politically in this country. >> there is a long way to go as -- before voters begin to cast ballots in the iowa caucus, but it appears we could be facing a biden/trump rematch and there is some early polls, one from quinnipiac from august 10th, to the 14th, about where things stand. it is a close race according to the one poll. biden 47%, and 46% choice for president. and that is a national poll. trump's in that same poll, 38%. biden is at 40%. so this even despite all of this, the general election could be tight. >> anyone who lives through 2016 knows it will be ridiculous to rule anybody out right now. because everybody who did that was wrong in 2016. but i do think a poll is only as good as the questions are and only reflects the moment in time. you could not look at a poll now and say what it will mean in november of 2024. but we look at all of these polls consistently and they show the same picture now and i think that is why biden knows that he's got an economic message to work on, a working class voter message to work on, a message to young people to work on. he has a lot of work to do. >> we'll talk about biden too later in the program. because he has a lot of problems himself here. >> it is hard being an incumbent. in this urncountry that is so divided. and he has a lot of things that he's passed legislatively and people are feeling the effects of those things and when you're 40%, you are what you are. and it doesn't seem like the message is making a department so how they're going to convince people, the biggest thing is the contrast. it is not just biden and what he's done, it is the contrast of the biden versus a guy who has been indicted four times and a party that is sort of representative of chaos. >> and it is clear that a lot of democrats want that contrast. but a lot them wanted it in 2016 and you see what happened there. okay, next, the political fight in the 2024 race has the rest of the field sharpening their claws. ♪ if there's pain when you try to poo ♪ ♪ and going sometimes feels like you ♪ ♪ pushed through a pineapple or two ♪ ♪ colace is the brand you need ♪ ♪ to soften stools, we're all agreed ♪ ♪ #2 should be easy to do ♪ trust colace to soften stools with no stimulants for comfortable relief. okay everyone, our mission is complete balanced nutrition. together we provide nutrients to support immune, muscle, bone, and heart health. yaaay! woo hoo! ensure with 25 vitamins and minerals and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up ♪ ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements at 4 weeks. skyrizi is the first and only il-23 inhibitor for crohn's that can deliver both clinical remission and endoscopic improvement. the majority of people on skyrizi achieved long lasting remission at 1 year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. hi! need new glasses? buy one pair, get one free at visionworks! how can you see me squinting? i can't! i'm just telling everyone!...hey! buy one pair, get one free for back to school. visionworks. see the difference. ♪ chevy silverado has what it takes to do it all. with up to 13 camera views. and the z71 off-road package. ♪ you ok? yeah. any truck can help you make a living. this one helps you build a life. chevy silverado. each day is a unique blend of going, doing, and living. glucerna protein smart with 30 grams of protein to help keep you moving. uniquely designed with carbsteady to help manage blood sugar response. glucerna, bring on the day. governor ron desantis is back in florida this morning. we're waiting to see if you plans to travel to jacksonville, at site of a racest shooting yesterday that left three black americans dead. but it was vivek ramaswamy that talked about race in america this morning. he reacted to the shooting in the wake of this remark he made on friday. >> i'm sure the booking white supremacist exists somewhere in america, i've just never met him. never seen one or met one in my life. maybe i'll meet a unicorn sooner. >> now ramaswamy sparred with dana bash this morning on "state of the union" over that comment. >> what do you think goes through the minds of the families of the three victims in yesterday's shooting when they hear you say that white supremacy is basically a fantasy? >> i'm sure they're grieving for their loss and i don't want to politicize those victims, dana. i was responding to a question where someone asked me, what racism have i experienced in recent years. and i answered honestly. most of that racism has come from the modern left. >> do you acknowledge that this country does still exist in the united states? >> i acknowledge that all forms of racial animus exist in the united states. >> so, just to be clear, the homeland security department released its annual threat assessment and said that in 2020 that it will -- white supremacist extremist will be the most lethal threat in the homeland. and 2019 was the most deadly year for dead lie violent extremist attacks since t the '80s. and ramaswamy has been anti-affirmative action and reverse racism is racism and but clearly not changing his tune in the aftermath of this deadly massacre. >> he doesn't want engage with those facts. and this is part of the larger argument that republican -- the republican party and republican candidates often make. and it speaks powerfully to the white when you have a candidate of color as the messenger but democrats make too much of racism, that they talk too much about white supremacy and ramaswamy said he doesn't encounter every day racism. but listen, the facts are the facts. he also, i would argue, inartfully went after congresswoman presley, likening her to a member of the klan. dana in her interview this morning tried to press him on that and that would have been a perfect opportunity saying my rhetoric went a little too far. >> i'm glad that you brought that up. because this is what happened this morning. >> when i said the grand wizard of the kkk would be proud of what they heard her say because there is nothing more racist than saying that your skin color predicts something about the -- >> you didn't just say that they would be proud. >> it is the same spirit, dana, i think -- >> i'm not sure how provoking of a discussion -- >> picking on some fringe comment in the context of a broader context that i was offering it in a speech. >> all riekght you just said th your comment was -- >> and again he's comparing a black democratic kogcongresswom to the kkk. >> he also is arguing that affirmative action programs are to blame for the racist violence that we see in this country. and that is just not bourne out by the facts. >> and this will put different candidates that will handle the issues of race and about mass shootings differently. governor ron desantis is now back there if florida. he issued a statement last night. he said he's talking about the killer, he was targing people based on their race. that is totally unacceptable. that is the language from ron dpoo desantis. we condemn what happened in the strongest possible terms. what kind of position does this put desantis in? >> in a good position and the experience and moves that he's made over the course of the election cycle. recall just two months ago we were speaking about the controversy that he made about defending florida's change in curriculum, saying that the slavery essentially was something that may have had a unintended benefit for black americans, right. before that the fight that he's waged over critical race theory as well. so this is a moment and his campaign sure better know that people will be watching to see how he responds to that. another point that i would like to make to piggy back off of ava, is that what we've seen with the candidates of color on the republican side, a lot of the basis of their campaigns has been that race doesn't matter, right. we've seen tim scott kind of say that he launched his campaign and in that regard and nikki haley and ramaswamy is going to the extreme on that point. but this is something that they're doing to eva's point to try to message to a swath of the republican party and it is dangerous. and we see those consequences of erasing crt in history. >> and the other big moment from last week, of course, was the debate, and the fallout of the debate. an the reason we're talking about ramaswamy is because he caught fire at the debate because he's embracing that controversial rhetoric, trying to get trump supporters. even though he's a new comer and now rising in the polls. he caught a lot of fire from liz opponents. >> i've had enough already tonight of a guy who sounds like chatgpt standing up here. >> now is not the time for on-the-job training. we don't need to bring in a rookie or people without experience. >> under your watch, you will make america less safe. you have no foreign policy experience and it shows. >> and it you know -- >> and it shows. >> an a snapshot of gop voters, according to a poll saying that before the debate, 50% of voters had a favorable view of ramaswamy, 60% after. but look at this. unfavorable, 13% before the debate and 32% after the debate. >> but right now he's competing for the gop base. not the overall voting population. and it is sort of unclear like what is his end game. is he hoping to move into the number two spot in case trump implodes. he is trying to end up as a vp or a cabinet member or creating a platform for himself to bea thought leader and shaper. he's positioning himself for all of those things except he's certainly not courting a swing voting general election audience. i think there is a couple of really interesting race themes coming out of last week's debate. one is really you do have a number of candidates of color on the state. you have two indian american candidates who parents were immigrants and their both conservative but their foreign policy views are so different. i also think if ramaswamy were a democratic candidate, who was self-made and very wealthy and went to harvard and yale and talking about the meritocracy that they would respond differently to him. but it is this idea that you could be a person of color and wrap yourself in all of the policy positions of donald trump. that is the proposition that he's testing right now inside of the gop base. >> and one of those indian americans are nikki haley who actually did well according to the polls, that same poll. republicans who watched that debate, gop voters who watched the debate. 17% among those specific voters, the favorability improved and others improved a bit as well. as we mentioned ramaswamy and doug burgum and others and donald trump went down about five points here. but could this turn things around for nikki haley? >> it is hard to see this debate having that much impact when the front-runner who has half of the republican electorate sewn up isn't even on the stage. she had a good night. mike pence had a good night. they said what they wanted to say. and i would put nikki haley in that category. but, again, they're all punching up at a guy very few people have heard of before and this is the person who sees this his fight for relevance in this primary is to co-opt trumpism and the race and other things and to exalt trump and say i will do trump better just in a younger more diverse personification of that. that is a tractive to people. some people are criticizing him more like governor chris christie. it is hard to think who they think their audience is because they're running in a republican primary that, you know, now the republican base voter, ramaswamy, trump, that is seeming to be what they are looking for. nikki haley was great. but when you are hypocritical on attacks on spending and hedging on abortion compared to your other rivals on the stage and talking about defending u.s. aid for ukraine, these are all positions that may make sense in a general election audience, and maybe with some swing voting women. but i don't know how they're going to play -- >> also, what they believe, it is a conundrum. if the things that you believe are really far away from the core tenants of maga or trump politics and you're at 3% or 5% anyway, why not say what you think. i mean, like if you're goal in this race, chris christie for example, is to get republicans to rethink what they've signed up for, to rethink what the party stands for, to cleave the party and say it is better to lose a general election and re-set the party than to sign on for another four years of this. if that is your goal, it makes sense to do exactly what they're doing. >> will the republican -- the people that will decide that nominee, are they going to -- >> it is just so fascinating to see the old guard versus the new guard within the republican party. mike pence for instance pushing a lot of the issues. more support for ukraine. that is something that is supported among the base, just such a fundamental philosophical divide and so much to play out in the months ahead. ahead, trump's fourth disciple was in the books. but will any of the trials kick off before republicans decide on a nominee? 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>> he definitely has a case. some would say a very good case. it is an exceedingly low bar to get a -- if you're a federal official to have that matter moved to federal court. the interesting thing to me is proving that he has a colorable federal offense is one part of the standard to get it removed. but using that defense if federal court, that is where he might find bigger trouble to prove that he was acting under some federal law or interpretation of the koo constitution to achieve that objective rather than pursuing some corrupt self-benefit or benefit to his boss. >> and if he succeeds, trump will try to do the same. but will it be a slam dunk that trump's case will be moved to federal court if meadows succeeds? >> not at all. they are very different in terms of how the court wouldee valute ate the two. the former president is in a unique situation as being the executive and so there could be legal questions about whether him and his executive capacity qualified as an officer the way that any other federal employee, so i think those are two different issues. and then of the former federal employees, mark meadows does have the strongest case, that not to say that he will succeed on his claim but he has the strongest case as chief of staff to the former president, because the chief of staff is involved in everything that a president does. and, so, his arguments is not a frivolous claim and it is interesting to see how that hearing plays out. >> there are 19 people here that are charged. i mean, how -- how do you anticipate, kyle, you've covered so many of these criminal proceedings, and this -- they are nothing like this, the form he president and along with 18 others in this racketeering and broad conspiracy case. how will this play out with 19 defendants. >> where we're at right now is the separation phase. where their pushing different legal arguments and testifying different legal theories to put the d.a. and georgia under pressure to see if she's ready to go to trial. you have a couple of defendants t trying to go to trial innock. it is pretty achievable for them and what we might see is some of the key players, key co-defendants go to trial in the next few months and weeks. >> and former fbi deputy director and involved in criminal prosecutions, charging 19 people at the same time, do you think it was a mistake to do that. >> it creates a number of challenges for the prosecution. it is a group of people that are different. from the president of the united states to coffee county election supervisors. so keeping them together as fani willis has indicated, will be a challenge. some want to go quickly, and the former president has indicated he wants to slow things down as much as possible and hovering over all of these decisions is the very real fact that some of those 19 might decide that spending a million plus dollars on their defense for something that they don't believe they played a major role in, they might be better off actually cooperating, pleading guilty to a minor offense and providing evidence. >> and some of the people could be the fake electors themselves, or three of them who were charged here. we have mug shots of those three individuals who were charged. these fake electors. and some of them said they were acing in the court filings, acting in trump's dissection. is that a concern that some could testify against him. >> well each of these individuals, as andy points out, have their own interests so they each have to launch whatever defense, number one, they're capable of launching, capable of affording, and whatever is -- when they do have counsel, whatever is in their individual interest. that may be contrary to what the former president or the other individuals at high levels, his former legal advisers and so forth, the giulianis and the ple meadows and the sidney powells. with respect to the d.a. trying to bring all of these cases at once, though, i think it will present a challenge for the d.a. office. they don't have the resources that the justice department has. all of the lawyers and all of the funds that a big institution like that has to put in it. and she's going to be, i think, really challenged by all of the motions practice that is going to take place and all of the legal counsel that is going to be filing with different objectives to protect their own clients. >> and you just saw it on your screen, the 19 mug shots. we could barely fit them on the screen. how are they going to deal with this in the courtroom? another question altogether, as you mentioned the complications and how quickly could these go to trial. we'll see this play out tomorrow in washington in the federal election sub version case. the prosecution wants to start that trump trial in january of 2024. trump said the spring of january 2026. let's look at what voters think about this question. should trump's 2020 election subversion happen before the election according to the poll. 19% say no, they don't know. what do you think the likelihood, kyle, is of this happening and playing out before the election. >> likely it is one thing. i do think the judge will try to schedule it before the election. i think she is not -- she's going to laugh out of the room this idea of april of 2026. that is just five years after the events in question. it just seems impossible to imagine. but i think the special counsel wanted january of next year. that seems very ambitious but she'll lean in that direction because there is a public interest, that is what the special counsel said to get it case tried as quickly as you can. it is about in some ways in the next election, it is not about the politics but it is a crime against the election process. so let's do this as quickly as we can in a responsible way. >> do you see that playing out this way. >> absolutely agree. i think the 2026 request was absurd. jack smith came in in january a little aggressive but i think they'll try to get it into before the election. >> thank you for breaking that down for us. and coming up, the biden plan to paint his opponents as extremists. plus his reaction to the mug shot seen around the world. >> did you see donald trump's mug shot yet? 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>> have you seen his mug shot yet? >> i did see it on television. >> what did you think? >> handsome guy. >> i mean, he was joking there. but he obviously does not want to discuss this. does it become a point where the biden campaign and the democrats say, you know, talk about this. or is it too risky because republicans have been accusing him of weaponizing the justice department. >> it is a risky strategy. and you saw biden. there is bad blood between biden and trump. the white house is looking his chops at prospect of a re-election. any question about biden's energy level changed and shifts the moment that donald trump is invoked and you saw some of that on camera when he answered that question. secondly, yeah, what they're doing is allowing the voters to make their own decisions. voters is hyperaware of the chaos on the other side of the legal jeopardy and all of the challenges he's embroiled in as well and so they're hoping that voters will make the informed decision, biden is a creature of the senate and he governs and keeps his head down and he hopes to get credit for those things and that is where the white house is falling short off. but allow the voters to make their own contrast decision. >> there is always a risk. you don't say anything and someone filled up the vacuum by contending these are political prosecutions and then there is no pushback on the other side that makes it a harder political argument in some ways. there was a tweet that biden put out last week in the aftermath of trump's arrest saying that nothing -- i think today is a great day to give to my campaign. what do you make of that? >> it is sort of -- it is one of the war shack tests, you could read into it what you want to. it is the day after debate or is he saying trump is about to get the perp walk. i think it is both good politics and good governance to stay away from politicizing and getting involved in what the justice department is doing. but on the other hand, joe biden is a candidate for re-election. he's not taking a month's oath never to invoke politics and this is the line that he's strad straddling right now. as trump becomes the nominee, there is going to come a time where it will be appropriate but necessary for biden to craft some kind of an argument saying this is the alternative, this person has been indicted or if there is any outcome to the criminal prosecutions and to make that case and that contrast but to do it right now, everybody could watch the news and see what is going on with trump, for biden to get his hands in it now makes it look like he's involved and he wanted to make clear that that process is playing out independently and has nothing to do with him. >> and he's also got his own problems. namely his support among younger voters and african american voters and hispanics and polls have shown a significant deterioration since the 2020 election. and his allies on the left know he has to make up ground. bernie sanders himself was in new hampshire yesterday, did a rally there and this morning he was asked about the fact that progressives and biden are not only on the same page and he had a message for the folks on the left. >> in this particular time, this particular moment in american history, when we are taking on somebody, the former president, who in fact does not believe in democracy, he's an authoritarian, and a very, very dangerous person. i think at this moment, there has got to be a unification of progressive people in general. >> is that going to work for left? >> it might. senator sanders i think felt a real urgency to deliver that message. because he doesn't feel as though that democrats are talking enough about the working class. and that the democrats are ceding those voters to republicans. so it makes a lot sense for him to be elevating this. we know that progressives feel underutilized and they're not elevated enough in the party and something that this president is going to have to confront. i know from my own conversations with young progressive voters that if trump isn't ultimately the nominee, it is going to be much harder to get young voters out and feel really motivated. who feel really dispirited by the reversal of roe and some other promises that they feel haven't been fulfilled. >> and speaking of which, some of the members who feel underutilized, one of them is jamal bowman. he's a new york -- he told this to the messenger, i know for a fact that members of congress like myself, cori bush and presley others who inspire an engage young people across the country. when you look at what we're trying to do in 2024, it is imperative to make sure the squad is in front and center in that conversation. now this is -- this squad referring to the members of far left to the house democratic caucus. folks who the republicans are very eager to tie to joe biden. biden though, has kept them at arm's length. >> and biden has done a masterful job at this as well. he's incorporated some of the platforms and some of his key legislative victories. the ira act and addressing climb change. he's been -- student loans but giving that a try as well. the white house and the democratic party are hyperaware also that he faces these challenges particularly among young and black voters. you saw that with the rollout of the $25 million ad campaign last week. you speak to some of the campaign operatives and they're talking about engagement with communities an how they don't want to spend the first five minutes saying we have bettered your life in some ways so they face a lot of challenges. >> and next for us, celebrating the 60th anniversary of a iconic civil rights moment. people may think their contracture has to be severe to be treated, but itit doesn't. visit findahandspecicialist.com today to get started. when nature and science get together... pretty sweet things can happen. like our senokot laxative gummies. to relieve occasional constipation, senokot starts with the natural senna plant that science transforms into a yummy gummy! swee senokot lative gummies. 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