united states indicted on state charges stemming from his and others' efforts to overturn joe biden's election win in the state of georgia. >> i make decisions based on the facts and the law. we look at the facts and look at the law and bring charges. >> having another indictment for him questioning the integrity of this country's elections is what we are doing to a president that served this country. >> the governor of georgia i guess can't pardon. i don't know how you get out of this. >> do i intend to try the 19 defendant in indictment together? >> yes. >> the calendar is getting crowded. all the possible trials that the former president is facing. >> this case has a couple of twists on advice of counsel. you see some of the lawyers on whod advice they relied indicted. >> an abuse of power by angry democrats who decide the rule of law doesn't matter to them anymore. >> it's bigger than watergate. it goes to the foundation of democracy. this is very different and much more serious and much more troubling. >> good morning. we are so glad you are with us on a truly significant morning. breaking news, overnight donald trump indicted again on felony charges, this time for trying to overturn his 2020 election loss in the state of georgia and he is not alone. the fulton county grand jury indicting 18 alleged co-conspirators, including rudy giuliani and also former white house chief of staff mark meadows. >> and they are all facing rico racketeering charges which have been used in the past to take down mob bosses. >> the indictment alleges that rather than abide by georgia's legal process for election challenges, the defendants engaged in a criminal racketeering enterprise to overturn georgia's presidential election result. >> paula reid is live outside the fulton county courthouse. we now have the 98 pages. we have the former president and 18 associates here. what happens next? this is now all at this point. >> reporter: well, phil, the next step is surrender and the district attorney, fani willis, gave them to next friday at noon to arrange their surrender. then there will be an initial appearance. a little bit different than what we have seen if federal court where they have initial appearance, arraignment in one fell swoop. it will take a while to go through the process with 19 different defendants. now, we fully expect the former president will cooperate here in terms of the surrender, going through the process. after that we expect many legal challenges. the first i am told is a challenge to jurisdiction and attempt to move this case from fulton county to the federal level. now, one of the biggest advantages that would potentially give the former president is dprrawing from a broader jury pool instead of just heavily democratic fulton county. >> can you lay out bruce willis' case here. >> it's a sweeping indictment. the fourth criminal dichlt the former president faced this year, by far the most detailed, the most broad, and here the district attorney has made a choice. to structure this was a r.i.c.o. case. r.i.c.o. laws were designed to help go after organized crime. so you can charge people as a unit, even if not every single person in that unit participated in every single alleged activity. now, some legal experts say that will also likely be challenged in court. but she alleges a conspiracy. she says this group of people engaged in a conspiracy and lays out eight specific things they did to support this accusation. starting with lying, to state officials and state legislatures, as part of an effort to try to install fake electors, undermine the electoral college. they also allege that some of these defendants were harassing witnesses. particularly election workers, trying to get them sort of caught up in this alleged scheme. they talk about the pressure the justice department was facing from former president trump and even at least one official inside the justice department at that time. we also know and we reported on the pressure the vice president was facing. that is also one of the eight pillars she laid out here. they also talk about attempts to breach voting systems in rural georgia in an attempt to find this alleged fraud. and then, finally, they allege that there was a cover-up. so she broadly lays out that case. and then she details throughout the rest of the 100 pages 161 different discrete agents these defendants allegedly committed. >> i have to ask, because in reporting on all of this, you have done a ton of reporting on this individual, mark meadows, former white house chief of staff. were you surprised, especially since he was not indicted or listed as an unindicted co-conspirator in the special counsel's case. surprised to see his name among the 18 trump associates indicted here? >> reporter: i was not surprised to see him here, right. it was more splicing not to see him in the expressway indictment. back to the january 6th investigation on the hill, one of the key conclusions was that all roads in this alleged conspiracy led to mark meadows. they framed him based on their investigation as the key enabler of former president trump and hits efforts to try to overturn the election. so, obviously, we have been trying to figure out what's going on with him in the expressway special counsel kroeb. he was apsent in the federal indictment. raising questions about whether he is cooperating. here he has has been charged supported by many allegations of him beinvolved in this alleged conspiracy. i think it was definitely more of a surprise that he watt not in the special counsel indictment and there are questions about whether -- how these cases will interact, which will go first. it's really interesting. mark meadows is probably the key player here in some ways even more so than former president trump. >> paula reid, thank you for all of that. rudy giuliani is in the middle of many of the episodes that form the basis of this indictment, including a georgia senate subcommittee hearing. you are looking at video of it. t this was december 2020 during which he and other trump associates pushed false claims of mass election fraud. the purpose of these false statements was to persuade rz georgia legislators to reject lawful votes cast by the presidential electors from georgia. here is what he told state lawmakers on that day in that meeting. >> it's injury responsibility if a false and fraudulent count is submitted to the united states government. and it's clear that the count you have right now is false. >> our next guest, former georgia state senator, jen jordan, was at that hearing and one of the witnesses who testified yesterday to the fulton county grand jury before this indictment. it's her first interview since testifying and she joins us now. good morning. thanks for joining us once again. talk to us about your interview before the grand jury. how would you explain it? what did you say? what were you asked? >> yeah, good morning. thank you for having me. so i was the first witness that went into the grand jury room. i'll tell you, it was a little overwhelming. i mean, there has been so much that has happened that we know and what we don't know. but i'll tell you, when i walked in there and sat down, it was clear that every man and woman in that room was taking, you know, their role and their job very seriously. they were interested in what was happening. they had questions. and, you know, 40 minutes later when i walked out, you know, i felt like it was in good hands, you said you were the first to go in yesterday. there were expecting to be ten total witnesses. it was expected to take two days or two take two days. it happened in a day. it all happened seemingly a little bit faster than everybody thought. did you have any sense when you were there that it was going to move that fast or why? >> no, i didn't. but i can tell you with respect to grand juries in georgia, they really lead the process. so while you have prosecutors that will go in and maybe have a plan in terms of how they are going to present, at the end of the day the ebb and flow is kind of guided by the grand jurors themselves. if they have more questions with respect to one witness, they may spend more time with that witness. or if they think they have heard enough, right. they can end it at any point in time and say, all right, we have heard enough, we have seen enough, we are ready to vote. i think that happened yesterday. maybe there were two days that were planned to be chockful of witnesses, but after two or three had gone, it was clear that the evidence, at least from my perspective, is fairly overwhelming. and really the bar in georgia with respect to an indictment isn't very high. it's just probable cause. so like i said, probably after two, three, four witnesses, you know, probably from the grand jurors' perspective they had heard what they needed to hear and really want today make sure that all of the witnesses that they needed to hear with respect to all of the charges included in the indictment, that they were able to get through it by the end of the day. >> what did the grand jurors home in on with you? and what do we not know? >> you know, i think it's one of those things where, think about it, you're called to a grand jury. you are doing your normal kind of civic duty. they had already looked at other presentments earlier on other cases in fulton county. all of a sudden the door opens and they are told that they are the trump grand jury. that's got to be a very, very serious moment for all of them. so, you know, when i walked in, i think that that -- that, you know, understanding what they were undertaking and how serious it was was just starting to hit each of them. so they asked questions. they asked followups. they pushed me. if they were, like, wondering, what does that mean exactly or how do you know that, they definitely weren't being spoon-fed and they, you know, it really seemed to me that they wanted to do a good job, the right thing, whatever the right thing was at that moment. >> can you be more specific? what were they most interested in? also, what did they want more specifics on? >> you know, i think -- >> and who? >> well, you know, with respect to what i know as a witness, because that's what you get called for as a witness. it's not your opinion or anything like that. so it really dealt with the senate committee hearing. they wanted to know more about giuliani. why was it odd? how was it different than other senate committee meetings. i had to be very clear this was something i had never seen before, the fact that giuliani and ray smith and the rest of trump's legal team, including jenna ellis, were allowed to take over the georgia senate and present in a way that was very one identified, that other witnesses that could offer a counter weren't allowed, and that with respect to minority party members we weren't really -- we had no clue what was happening. it was all kind of happening in real time, and so with respect to any pushback, any questioning, we are literally having -- i remembered i had to google who is john eastman? it was one of those things. and remember, this is december, right? december 3rd, after the election. we are still in the middle of covid-19. i'm thinking what's going on here? and it's one of those situations where when you have the then-president of the united states tweeting out for folks, all of his followers to tune in to oan for the live-streaming of this hearing, it became clear at that point that there was something more to this than people just trying to get to the truth of what happened in our state. >> jen, you told this story, recounted these events repeatedly over the course of this investigation, over the course of this process. was there anything that you were asked yesterday by the grand jury that surprised you or seemed off base or you weren't prepared forgiven your specific knowledge of what happened? >> you know, i don't think so. i think they had very specific factual questions. again, as the first witness, i think they were a little overwhelmed by kind of the role that they were about to play. but, look, i was there to really kind of set the scene and kind of begin the story, because really, from my perspective, what happened in georgia was just the implementation of the overall plan at the federal level. so if you look at georgia and then you look at the federal indictment, everything that they wanted to do or planned to do, they were actually doing on the ground in this state. and so i think that's why it's so incredibly important. i think the federal docindictme and prosecution is important. with georgia it's important that we hold folks accountable here for what they tried to do in trying to overturn the election, and really, you know, try to undermine our democracy. and it looks like the district attorney is willing to do that. >> you are also an attorney. let me ask you this, because you told us a few weeks ago you don't want to take a swing at the former president of the united states and then miss e. so put your attorney cap on for a moment. how long do do you think fani willis's case is here after reading the indictment? >> incredibly strong. look, if you go through and look at the overt acts, and if you remember, and folks have talked about in terms of r.i.c.o., conspiracy is when you have an agreement, right? and you can show that there is kind of this meeting of the minds. we sat down and said, this is what we're going to do. with r.i.c.o., you really use the overt acts of certain actors to show the agreement, the scheme, the plan. so if you go through and look at the predicate acts, the overt acts and the predicate acts are, you have to break certain laws, right. you have to do some overt, illegal things in order to kind of meet the very basics of r.i.c.o. and so with respect to that, if you go through that indictment, almost all of the predicate acts or overt acts, they have quotations, right. so what you know about that is that there is a piece of paper, there is a witness, there is a recording where, with respect to those quoted portions, that they have evidence with respect to that. so this isn't just them flying friend or making assumptions or even allegations with respect to everything in that indictment. they have some evidence to show that. and i tell you what. that's incredibly strong, especially, you know, right out of the box. >> just going back to something you said about the grand jury, you being the first witness. the magnitude of that moment and their kind of recognition of that that you observed, what signaled that to you? i think it's how anybody would feel in that moment, you but how did you kind of pick up on that during the questions and answers? >> i think it was how they were looking at me, they were trying -- i mean, they are trying to assess my credibility. who am i? what am i bringing to the table? exactly what am i trying to establish as a witness. also, there was the feeling in there. for me, it was incredibly overwhelming. i mean, this is -- you know, i have been a part of this since 2020, and, you know, going through death threats and the ups and downs of being questioned and told that what i saw really wasn't what i saw. you know, for me it was overwhelming, and i think they felt the same thing. and the prosecution team that wa was in there were incredibly respectful and really did respond to the grand jurors in terms of what they wanted to know or, you know, what their questioning was. so it was just one of those processes that i think we all knew, you know, that this was something different and it really did have that heavy feeling. >> we appreciate you being with us, especially for your first interview after having that experience. thank you. >> thank you. donald trump now has to turn himself in, face charges in georgia. what could his defense in the case look like? we will ask david schoen, trump's lawyer that defended him at the second impeachment trial. 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[whip sound] take the first step to see if your small business qualifies. ♪ hit it ♪ ♪ it takes two to make a thing go right ♪ ♪ it takes two to make it outta sight ♪ ♪ one, two, get loose now ♪ ♪ it takes two to make a... ♪ stay two nights and get a $ 50 best western gift card. book now at bestwestern.com. we are learning about the attorney representing former president trump in this georgia case. a high-profile atlanta attorney best known for representing rappers like cardi b on social media he dubs himself the hashtag billion dollars lawyer and he has been outspoken about his liberal political views and distaste for donald trump. in 2017, he tweeted that dump's position on the central park five is racist, cruel, sick, unforgiveable, un-american. in 2018, criticizing lebron, the founder of a free school for children, pathetic once again. roe v. wade was overturned last year he said that he was committed to fighting to restore a woman's right to choose which has been destroyed by the supreme court. >> asked about these differences, he told "the new york times", quote, i don't believe we choose our client or clients based on race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender, political belief or the substantive issues involved in the crime. we have our personal lives and personal politics. i don't apologize for my personal politics. that's his quote. he also told the insider that the investigation into trump is an erroneous and politically driven persecution. joining us is former president trump's defense lawyer david schoen, represented him in this impeachment trial. thanks for being with us. if you were trump's defense counsel, what would your first move be here? >> let me just back up a second. i think you did a great service to the viewers by having that last guest on. the idea of insight into the grand jury process is almost unprecedented. it's very important. i would add i think it was reckless to have a one-day grand jury in a case this complicated with this kind of indictment because while miss jordan is absolutely right, grand jurors get to ask questions, what they don't have any idea is the exculpatory evidence. it would be impossible to present it. the other said of the story in one day, that's important. also, the low bar for getting an indictment is important and the presumption of innocence is important. back to your question. i think that the first move has to be -- the first move has to be moving -- removing this case to federal court. if it's in the statute 28 usc 1442 a which permits a federal official to move the case to federal court, if the acts alleged -- >> i want to ask you, because you bring up the statute, 1442 and what that statute says, is that you basically have to be within the outer perimeter of the official duties of office. and we just saw in the new york case when they tried to move the bragg case to federal court, judge hellerstein said, no. those actions were not within that perimeter. are you so sure hthese are? >> i am sure they are. that's a very different case. a very different case. that case, what the judge went off on was that donald trump, according to the judge's findings, did those on his personal agenda. having to do with stormy daniels, covering up an embarrassing situation. in this case it -- remove any criminal case from state court if it's for or relating to any act performed by or for them under color of their office. the 11th circuit construes to broadly. it was amended to not require any causal connection. so there is an 11th circuit case, caver versus alabama electric co-op, if associated with the official position -- >> can i ask you another thing and i will let my brilliant coanchor fill in. last night norm calls you a fine criminal defense lawyer but brought up a case, malcolm versus martin, who says an officer who acts out of personal interest or criminal intent to do his duty does not get removal to federal court. >> right. but we get to that question later, what the intent was and all of that. the key question here is, you know, let me -- i'll tell you my starting point. my starting point article 2 section 1 and 3 of the constitution. these require the president to take care that the laws are faithfully executed. defense story of this case is diametrically opposed to the prosecution's story. the defense story would be u president trump and those around him believed that there was election fraud, irregularities, that what he was saying he believed in. and so we don't just focus on excerpt that tape. we play the whole tape. that talks about the irregularities they thought there were at the time. if that's the case, he had an obligation, wab the defense, to take care that the laws are faithfully executed. clearly acting as president, the only reason they not in forum was because he was the president at the time. the only reason the secretary of state what pick up the phone, the governor, because he was president. they are associated with the act in his official capacity and that's what the 11th circuit said is how the statute is viewed. >> could i ask, in terms of this being one of the first moves we think his defense team will make and that you think they that make, this may be a simplistic version of events given the tach utes you have been going back and forth on, is the only reason to try to move this to the federal side to take away the possibility of the president not being able to pardon himself if he were to win re-election? because that's kind of on its face what it appears to be. >> first of all, between poppy and me, i would go with poppy on the legal advice question. >> no. >> secondly, to your question, i would say, no, i think there are a number of reasons. i think you certainly expand the jury hpool. you know better than i how strongly democratic fulton county voted in the last election, generally. this would broaden the jury pool to outlying counties in the northern district of georgia. so that's a very important factor. also, accept rates president trump from other defendants in this case. i think it's unworkable to consider trying all these defendants together. we have the experience in atlanta with a case pending now, young thug case, with jury selection taking six months, trial nine months to two years. that's unworkable. >> to my initial question, those are all great points, wunt pieces of moving to the federal side would be to eliminate the possibility that a state, prosecution would occur, he would go to state prison and, therefore, could not pardon himself, right? whether or not that's the intent, that would be part of it? >> could be. and as i'm sure you know, georgia has a unique -- not unique burke one of three states in the country that doesn't permit the governor to grant a pardon. and there are many other requirements. you have to, in five years, pass any sentence in the case, so on, and it goes to a board. the legislature could change that. yes, maybe the pardon idea, just an idea. i think that the primary thing is the other -- the reasons underlaying the statute and this case the jury pool are primary reasons to remove it to federal court. >> all right. appreciate your time. we got you the first step the defense team would be making. we have 16 more to go through here. >> you want to come back? >> that was very helpful, so we will have to have you back. >> thank you. >> we always appreciate it. all right. trump now facing 91 charges in four jurisdictions. think about that. we heard from one of his former impeachment attorneys and one of the witnesses that testified to the georgia grand jury. we will have our experts to put it all in context for you. we'll be right back. with flolonase, allergies don't have to be scary spraying flonase daily gives you long-lasting, non-drowsy relief. 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[ cheers ] running up and down that field looks tough. it's a pitch. get way more into what you're into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. former president trump lashing out after the fulton county grand jury decided to indict him and 18 alleged co-conspirators. trump taking aim at district attorney fani willis throughout the investigation and last night after news of the indictment broke his campaign released a statement calling her a, quote, rabid partisan and a biased prosecutor. let's discuss these developments with our political commentator van jones, cnn chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst john miller, co-author of politico's new york playbook essential reading em emily know and elie honig. you haven't been with us this morning. after reading through the indictment, politically how it plays. we will get to the courtroom. but what does this mean for donald trump? >> by now the former president and his counsel, his supporters have a playbook in mind. this is their fourth indictment in as many months. they know they will attack the prosecutor, call it a witch hunt, go after president biden's so-called cronies, and that's their line of attack, to keep pushing back and not address the substance ever the charges. what strikes me unique in this indictment it's sweeping and narrow in scope at the same time. so many people who are up and down the totem pole in trump's world are now indicted as well. and they are a part of this whole mess he created for himself. how do you think the 18 people indicted -- this is the first time wet unindicted co-conspirators and the expre special counsel's last charges. these 18 individuals. you talk about r.i.c.o., you think mob, you think flipping, you think people -- i mean, trump's been financing dpsh which is totally legal, totally fine -- the defense for his friends, allies. 18 people here. >> they woke up in a different world. this is a dump prosecutor. this is literally the mirror image of what jack smith did. jack smith said a lot of bad people here. i am going after one person, donald trump. i will leave eveles alone. they will be unindicted co-conspirators. this one says uh-huh, all y'all in trouble. everybody gonna get it. so they wake up in a different world. this prosecutor unlike jack smith would said i will have hands-off on mark meadows, he says, no, you're in it, too. so these people -- if mark meadows thought he was home safe because he was cooperating, he is not home safe. if these unindicted co-conspirators -- they are all indicted. this is actually more normal. >> this is what we see every day at the neighborhood level. four kids know each other, one does something bad, that's normal. prosecutors usually throw a -- they don't throw the book at you. they throw the library at you. this woman, she threw the library at these people. that's what happens every day in these courts. to the extent people say donald trump was getting bad treatment, all the other prosecutions up to now, indictments up to now were unusual because so many people were able to get off scot-free. not this time. >> one really interesting point from that is that when you go after one person, it can be more expeditious, go about faster. what we are seeing in the other r.i.c.o. case that fani willis is overseeing in atlanta is it may turn out to be the longest criminal trial in the history of that county. that's how long a lot of these r.i.c.o. cases take. she is throwing the library at all of them and she told sara murray that she is going to try them all at once. you don't think that's going to happen? >> no way. >> the point is, d does it really slow things down. >> we will be living with this one forever. i think it will outlast all the others. it will be the last one -- >> i think it will outlast here. >> in terms of her term in office, yeah. >> if you look at history, the longest trial on the books in the history of the united states federal courts is 18 defendants in the pizza connection case in the southern district of new york. it started in 1985. it ended in 1987, with 18 convictions, two defendants were murdered, one was acquitted. but by scale, that's the only thing we have to compare. >> and the supreme court has gotten tougher on mega trials. but another important point here. this is the check writing portion. proceedings. fani willis, i charge you. the check cashing part is much tougher, right. it's easy to indict. let's be honest. . i did it. it's not hard to walk into a grand jury and walk out with an indictment. she has to prove every one of these kayss. every one of these is going to have to work out a plea deal or go trial. that will take a long time. >> don't minimize your efforts, okay? took no skill. trust me. >> we heard from the defense -- or paula reid made the point earlier, i think one of the first steps is try to move jurisdiction to the federal side of things. is plausible. other people say no chance. >> 100% trump will make that motion. strategically could. i'm 50/50. i can see this either way. schoen's argument, and it's a good one, the president has to handle the take care clause, as we call it, that the laws are faithfully enforced. the response from prosecutors that poppy articulated quoting norm was this the opposite of what a president is supposed to be doing from the white house as president. the stakes are huge. if he gets in federal court, he gets a way better jury pool. as you noted, could be pardonable and can ask for immunity. as a federal officer, next step, throw it out and i'm done. that's potentially dispositive here. >> there is overlap between this case and jack smith on the election interference. the question of whether he could pardon himself if elected back in the white house is a big one. now anything in state court, be that new york or georgia, there is nothing he can do about it per se. the federal jurisdiction, then that question becomes a big one and suggest we are talking about through the campaign season again. >> this is like law school hypothetical. what if he wins the election, gets rid of the federal cases, can he be tried in state court? probably no, not while president. it's all in play. >> love the hypotheticals. >> i want to ask you. you made an interesting point, intentional or unintentional. you said this is the opposite of what a president should have been doing, which was quite literally the point ruby freeman made when she was testifying to the january 6th committee about what it was like to have a president attacking her. she is central in this case. >> sure. and ruby freeman is -- i mean, the best american you could imagine. she is african american woman. decides to help her neighbors vote. that's what she is trying to do. puts out a card table, helps her neighbors vote, suddenly the president of the united states is attacking her as someone who destroyed democracy. she is doing more for democracy than i did. all i did was turn my vote in. she tried to help her neighbors vote. her life has been a living hell. the fact that the prosecutor is sticking up for her, saying she can't be treated this way, saying she is as important to the system as anybody else and nobody, let alone the president of the united states, should ruin someone's life with lies when they are doing a good job i think is really, really important and i think that's the human aspect here, that when you have a president like a donald trump who will do anything, destroy anybody to hold on to power, you know what? that could be you or me. i could beat donald trump -- no, he is not. he is not get indicted for you. miss freeman is more like you and she is being defended by the system, as she should be. >> and her -- what would be testimony in this trial will be actually seen by people. and i think that's -- i know that's what makes this so different. there will be cameras in this courtroom. it's not a federal proceedinget why. likely cameras in the state courtroom and she would likely be a key witness. that brings the humanity of these alleged crimes, i think, to the fore, john. >> i think having cameras in the courtroom, which is the federal courts have lagged behind this, you know, in some draconian way where they are open to the public, but not all the public p because not everybody can get down to the courthouse. whe when the trial is televised the jury of public opinion gets 30 form opinions about what really went on in court, not the snapshot. those moments have real power. >> all right. stay with us. we have a lot more to dig into here. first, back to this story. very important story of the governor of hawaii calling it a tragedy beyond tragedies. more bodies found assist after last week's deadly fires. a report from maui next. ♪ stay off the frereeways! only pay for what you neneed. ♪ libererty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ that's why the new titan turkey is proferred by this football pro. and proferred by this football o who actually uses her feet. and if we profer it, we know you'll prefer it too. i use my ft. have you seen me scramble? 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>> reporter: well, poppy, good morning. so carlos de oliveira is facing several charges, including one for conspiracy of trying to obstruct justice as well as lying to federal investigators. now, the 56-year-old has yet to enter a plea in his case because he did not have a florida-based attorney. but now that he does, we expect him to plead not guilty at his arraignment later this morning to charges that he skechemed wi former president donald trump to try to delete surveillance video from trump's mar-a-lago property. that's video sought by federal investigators in the trump classified documents case. now, according to prosecutors, de oliveira asked another trump staffer, someone who works in i.t., about purging the video after federal investigators showed up at mar-a-lago to retrieve several classified documents. the indictment alleges that the 56-year-old told this i.t. staffer, quote, the boss wants the server deleted. de oliveira is facing four counts, including lying to the fbi about helping walt nauta, the former president's personal aide. he is charged with helping astronaut to move these boxes with u classified documents. prosecutors say they were moving the boxes around the mar-a-lago property after the justice department had subpoenaed those documents. again, we expect de oliveira to be in court this morning with his florida-based attorney and we expect him to plead not guilty to his charges. guys. >> carlos, thank you. we'll be watching. we've got van, emily, john, elie back with us. i appreciated, poppy, desperately trying to explain this is a different case from another different case. >> i know. >> but, no, the scale of this and this moment, on april 1 there had never been a former president of the united states indicted. donald trump has now been indicted four times. 91 charges. a special counsel in new york, in fulton county as well, and what was so striking -- our colleague stephen, who brilliantly captures things every morning on cnn.com -- the most astonishing aspect of former president former president's fourth criminal indictment is not the scale of the multi-layered conspiracy. it is that trump, the accused kingpin of the scheme to overturn joe biden'sing victory, charged on monday with 18 others, could in 17 months be raising his right hand as the 47th president and swearing to preserve, protect, defend the constitution he was accused of plotting to shred. that's not hyperbole and it's not overstatement here. it's tough to get your head around it. >> absolutely. always important to take a step back and look at the historical context. how unprecedented these indictments are, the fact that he under scrutiny of criminal charges for basically wanting to push his own agenda on the american people, everyday people, poll workers, caught up in the whole mess of it, and to think if this case in particular remains in the state courts, is televised, i want to stress that television is donald trump's preferred medium. before he was a politician, he was host of "the apprentice." we could, as the campaign season unfolds, have a reality show that is again of his making, but the no on his terms. interesting to see that contrast play out. >> great point. if any of these are televised, he will be sitting there, but silent. you don't get to get up and make speeches or sit at the head of the boardroom when you are at the defendant's table. to emily's point, when donald trump first got arrested, indicted back in april in new york, it was surreal. and all of these feel -- i still can hardly believe state of georgia versus donald john trump. this is very real. it's not done. it's not like the indictments drop and what do we think and there is voting. over the next 17 months we are going to see legal arguments, we are going to see prevail motions, could see cases get dismissed, guilty pleas, trials. i think -- you guys -- van is the political expert, emily -- ity this will be the dominant story of the 2020 election. >> probably the only story because the democrats won't have a primary. so this is the campaign. what you're seeing is the campaign. 24-hour coverage of donald trump. by the way, i don't think he is mad about it. what do you want in a campaign? raise money? he is raising more money than his opponents. cut off the oxygen for your opponents in terms of attention. we are not talking about anybody but donald trump. by the way, you know, you want to be able to -- i mean, news cycle, which he can do. i will say this. they just showed 91 -- they had to work -- 91 charges. i would say one thing. if you are a republican voter and there was someone applying for a job with you facing 91 charges, would you hire him? that's the only question i ask you. would you hire him? you would not. you would not. yet you may vote for someone to be president of the >> he's innocent until proven guilty, but it is the campaign. donald trump, if you have been following him since the indictments and charges started rolling out one after another after another, has not been called on to speak about issues, the economy, employment, migrants, anything. his campaign is now based on a one-issue campaign. they are after me, they are trying to get me buzz they really want to get you. and the victimology, as he's framed it, seems to work only to the extent that every time he blasts out those ads, donald trump needs your help now, the donations of $2 and $5 and $10 start rolling in again. have we taken him off the hook as a candidate? >> emily started this conversation with a really good point about it's important to take a step back. can you just thread the line for us through all these cases. the real victims here, we talk about the real victims in the last federal indictment, there's a civil rights violation charge as well. >> if you are a sane person and are living in a country where you went to vote, your neighbors went to vote and there's somebody whos was in the white house who said, i don't care what your vote was. i don't care what your choice was. i don't care that you read all these articles or listened to all these podcasts or had to wait in line with your kid. i don't care about you at all. i'm going to throw your vote in the garbage can. i'm going to do whatever i can to stay in office because i don't want to leave. you would say there's something wrong with our system if it doesn't respond or stick for me. if nobody gets in trouble for that at all, that's if you're a sane person in a normal society, but instead what's happening is people are saying, no, if donald trump wants to do all those things, it's okay. if the system responds, there's something wrong with the system sticking up for me and my voice and my vote. there's something wrong with the system that would want a powerful person to respond to the law and the constitution in a good way. and that's what's going on. we have gone through the looking glass now where people are more interested one person getting their way than having their own vote count. >> thank you all. we're going to be talking about this for a very long time. it's the story that for sure. we appreciate it. paying close attention to hawaii. the devastation there, this morning blamed nor 99 deaths. officials warning that number could double. we have a live report from maui. ♪ please don't go ♪ ♪ please don't go ♪ ♪ plelease don't go ♪ ♪ please don't go ♪ ♪ don't goooooo! ♪ ( ♪ ♪ ) ♪ don't go away ♪ ( ♪ ♪ ) ♪ please don't go ♪ - [narrator]e just signed the lease on our third shop. my assistant wt to customink.com to get new uniforms with all the locations. he found great products, uploaded new art, and had boxes sent to all the shops. custom ink makes it so easy. get started today at customink.com. 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[coughing] ...from this highly... ...contagious virus. not all dangers come with warning labels. talk to your pharmacist or doctor... ...about getting vaccinated against rsv today. we're taking you to hawaii now where at least 99 people have died after those horrific wildfires. the governor says that number is likely to increase with only 25% of the fire ravaged area searched. and the search goes on another daunting task, finding shelter for thousands left without a home. cnn has more from maui. >> reporter: good morning. today will mark one week since this disaster began. before sunset yesterday, we heard comments from the governor, and he said over the next ten days, this staggering death toll of 99, it has the potential to double. the scale of the devastation unimaginable. >> nothing can prepare you for what i saw during my time here. sdplr the. >> reporter: the loss of life staggering. the road ahead is uncertain. >> patience, prayers, perseverance. that's what we need. >> crews with cadaver dogs are sifting through the ashes of incinerated homes and historic landmarks in the wake of the deadliest wildfires the u.s. has seen in a century. >> 25% of the area has been searched. we started with one dog. we're at 20. we can only move as fast as we can. >> reporter: those unaccounted for is still unknown. the death toll will continue rising. >> with call it search and rescue, but it's really searching to find those who we have lost. >> reporter: an official cause of the fires has to be determined, the state's primary electric provider facing a lawsuit claiming power lines blown over by high winds helped ignite the infer no. firefighters contended with sputtering hydrants for weak water pressure and low water supply. >> i'm just leaving a house pause we don't have enough water. >> reporter: in the face of loss and frustration, the community coming together in shared grief and hope. >> we will survive from the ashes. >> reporter: so we have the epicenter of the loss of life by the pacific ocean, but where we are this morning, these are the maui's highest area. and there are still hot spots. there's still a large wildfire burning. the ash backed up all throughout this neighborhood. this specific wildfire, 65% contained after 1 week of burning. poppy and phil, back to you. >> mike in hawaii, we'll keep a spotlight on hawaii and the devastation there. thank you for starting your morning with us our coverage of this historic fourth indictment of president trump continues. "cnn news central" starts now. this morning, donald trump now faces his most sweeping indictment to date. the former president, curren