candidates simply act like trump and refuse to admit defeat? the warning lights are blinking red this could happen. it's been dubbed the precinct strategy, and guess who's the senegaly driving this hostile take over? >> we're taking action, and that action we're taking over school boards, we're taking over the republican party precinct, we're taking over all the elections. we're going to take over the election apparatus. american citizens that are volunteering, they are going to volunteer to become a precinct committeeman, volunteer to become an election official, take over the secretaries of state. we're going to take this back village by village, precinct by precinct. >> we're going to take over the election apparatus, take over all the elections. the battle cry from insurrection brave heart steve bannon. bannon who appears to have as many political lives as he does shirts he wears at the same time served at the trump white house until he was fired and then he was charged in federal court with trying to defraud trump supporters until he was pardoned by the former president. he's under indictment now for contempt of congress because he wouldn't honor a subpoena from the january 6th committee. amazingly he's still running a podcast chumming the waters in trump world that the election was stolen. it wasn't. it's a lie. propublica, an investigative journalism outlet broke down hoz bannon has -- as well as other critical county and state party positions, stuff they think you're not going to notice. as a measure of the bannon effect propublica interviewed gop leaders in 65 key counties and 41 reported an unusual increase in sign-ups. the green dots on the map show at least where 8,500 precinct officers joined those county parties since bannon went on the warpath. and look at this chart. propublica found the number of precinct committee members in the largest county, maricopa, surged after bannon issued the call for the far right take over of that area as a republican party. yes, maricopa is where that bonkers cyber ninja audit was held that ultimately wasted everybody's time because it concluded once again biden soundly defeated trump there. of course this big lie nuttiness is not playing out just in arizona. wait until you hear the twisted tale from nevada gop politics. you're about to hear first-hand from a witness what happened in his back ward yard, this latest episode of a trump tsunami, a former gaap chair of nevada's crucial clark county where he says party leaders have been inviting the proud boys, yes, the proud boys into the tent until he wasn't able to stop it. but first let's turn to one of the lead reporters on this massive propublica piece. isaac, thanks so much for joining us. this all sounds like a sneak preview of coming attractions, insurrection 2, the sequel. at its core what's the plan? >> the plan is exactly like you said, jim, take over the republican party from the bottom up at the local level. but the reason this is important is because that local level, we have locally run elections in this country. that's really where the rubber meet the road. and people usually don't realize this or don't think about this, but in every state it's a little different so it's a little hard to keep track of. but the people who run the polling precinct, the people who sit on the board that sets the rules for the election in the county and certify the results in the county, usually they get there through the county party. when something weird happens on election day, someone makes a complaint, it's the county party chair who shows up to try to resolve that. in some places the county party controls who actually even gets on the ballot. so what this movement is targeting, what they're doing by filling these county party positions with people who believe that the last election was stolen and they need to stop that from happening again is they're then putting themselves in position to use the powers of those county parties to directly influence how elections are actually run. >> and i mean how influential is this bannon podcast, this war room podcast that he's doing even while under indictment? i mean, are there that many trump gop officials who were watching this and following his every word, sore is that overstating things? >> well, i talked to a number of county chairs who all of a sudden started getting these calls about people wanting to become precinct chairs and really had no idea why all of a sudden this, you know, little known position was suddenly in such hot demand. but it was because of bannon's show that's where people got this idea. and the fact is that bannon's podcast even though he's been kicked off youtube, it remains one of the most popular podcasts on apple's platform in the country. and it has hundreds -- more than 100 million down loads on pod being one of the services that att atracks this. >> i was checking this out the other day because i was curious. can you still find bannon's podcast in your iphone and you can despite the fact bannon was i instigating an insurrection before january 6th. and what is the real world damage we're talking about. >> if people remember the images people demonstrating outside counting facilities right after the election in 2020, people threatening election workers and ultimately people marching to the capitol, a lot of those same people in the months that followed have gone into these republican party positions at the county level, and that means that next time around by virtue of those party positions they're actually going to be inside the room, inside the polling precinct, inside the counting facility in a position to influence the casting, counting and certification of ballots in ways that they just didn't have the infrastructure to do before. >> and isaac, democrats have not caught onto this? i mean, are they trying to stop this? are they trying to get in there and make sure that they have their own forces standing by? >> again, i think part of what's hard about this is everywhere is different, and people aren't familiar with these county boards are these -- sometimes it's called the election inspector and sometimes it's called the election judge, and it's hard at a national level. these aren't tracked anywhere centrally. that's why i was left to just calling around. well, what are the places that really matter, and how do we know if this is happening there? and so it's just hard to -- you know, hard to keep an eye on from a bird's-eye view. >> yeah. well, it's flying under the radar right now, but thanks to you and propublica not as much under the radar. isaac, standby. we're about to get another reminder that what happens in vegas can happen anywhere in america. we're talking about clark county, nevada, the state's largest county where advocates of this precinct strategy seized control of the republican party, a take over backed in part by the proud boys. yes, the same proud boys trump told to stand back and standby, a stance parodied now by the man in charge of the clark county republicans. >> i don't know who they are. when the president asked if he's disavow he said no. and if the president's okay with that i'm going to take the presidential stance, right? i don't know. >> we reached out to jesse law multiple times on that piece of sound there. he did not get back in touch with us. fears of violence forced officials there in clark county to cancel meetings and ultimately call in police protection because the situation was unraveling there. david, thanks so much for being with us. we appreciate it so much. so what happened? your successor was able to gain control of the local party there with the help of the proud boys? do we have that right? >> well, yes indirectly. they started their own organization and offshoot and called it the ccrp, the clark county republican party. they stormed our meeting -- i happened to be outside the tent listening to mr. law instruct his followers, and most of them didn't know who i was so standing on the side and heard him instruct people say, hey, just take this form, fill it out and you're automatically a member and that's not how the process works, and he said don't let them stop can you and just storm the doors. and that's what they did. they had about 300 people out there and they stormed the doors and stole our bracelets for voting and forced their way into the meeting and just created extreme chaos. so much so i think it was 13 s.w.a.t. officers had to be called in. >> yeah. it sounds like a little mini insurrection there in vegas. >> absolutely was. and it was bullying and intimidation at the best, and it was in the direction of the state chairman because mr. law is his personally appointed guy. and they were the ones orchestrating it. >> and these are volunteer positions. did you ever think you were going to need police protection to do your civic duty, to get involved in local politics? >> no, sir, i didn't. i came to make a difference and discuss policy and talk about how to govern better and work together better, not to have my family and my wife and myself threatened repeatedly, and my friends and supporters. >> what's that been like? >> they actually call my wife more often than me and tell her to go back to mexico and how she's not welcome here. and in some pretty vile language. they threatened one of my friends who's been pretty active and told her to get bulletproof underwear and threatened to kill her. they're not here to govern, not here to talk about policy, not here to help. we've got the republican secretary of state, the only statewide officer, barbara sigosky who stood up to them, and they sent the proud boys to the state meeting to censure her, because she's there to enforce the law, not to kowtow to one side or the other and, you know, make things up. >> and we notice that there's a republican candidate for secretary of state in nevada, jim marchon, i hope i'm saying that correctly he went on steve bannon's show recently and made some nutty statements about george soros. let's watch. >> you can't believe nevada. nevada it's not amateurs. it's like the gambit. very roefl. >> very professional. and george soros started this in 2004 with a machine and a plan, and they accomplished it. >> yeah, david, what is going on with your party right now? you have people floating george soros conspiracy theories. i guess it does go to show you the party is heavily influenced by the likes of steve bannon, and there's just no two ways about it right now. >> well, there's a number of normal moderate republicans that are dead set against this. but, you know, when you bring thugs and bullies into it, it makes it very difficult to govern for either side. mr. merchant is clearly supported by the state chairman and was right next to them when they did the false electoral certification that they sent up to the federal government saying that president trump won the state. and make no mistake i supported president trump. i think his policies were fantastic. he did help the economy dramatically, but this is not the way to govern. and, you know, some people are being very poorly served. and i don't think he understands the magnitude of what's happening in the field. and this is just not a way to win. you do voter registration drives, you get out there, you work, you tell your side of the story, and you engage folks. and both sides got to knock it off, too. jim, i'm sorry, but it's as much on their side as there is on our side, it needs to go back to some semblance of normal. we need to govern. we need to help the country. we need to help folks that need help and move on. >> i have to respectfully disagree with you. it was trump supporters who stormed the capitol on january 6th. we'll get into a debate on that, but, if we keep seeing episodes like you experienced in clark county happening in other places around the country, what are the national implications of that? >> i think they're poor for everyone. you can't govern by this method and you don't win by this method. you're not going to get especially in a state like nevada which is trending democrat i think it's plus four dem, plus five dem you have to have moderates. you have to have people on the other side to win the state. you're not going to thug your way through a victory. and the current state chairman hasn't won it ten years. if you were a football coach, you know, i don't know if you watch any of the football games, james, but a whole bunch of football coaches just got fired. i'm from buffalo, by the way, so please send your condolences. they played a great game. >> they did. they did. it doesn't always work out your way. and isaac, quickly back to you, this sounds like what you're hearing all across the country? >> exactly. and what really strikes me about david's story is they couldn't hold a vote. he had to shutdown the meeting. the threat of violence actually prevented the democratic process from working. and in that case it was the proud boys and it was david, but in other places it's qanon followers or oath keepers or people who marched on january 6th. and it's people like david who are being forced out of party leadership. >> all right, isaac and david, thanks very much for what both of you have been doing to call attention to all of this. it's very important. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. it is hard to believe so many still believe trump's big lie, but we're about to dig into why they do and what the lack of trust in the 2020 race could mean for the mid-terms and 2024. the great donee o'sullivan, he's on the case. there he is. he's coming up next. so you onlr what you need, and we gotta do it fast. 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anybody that when i listen to them talk they don't turn my stomach with the disingenuousness. >> do you have trust and faith now in american democracy, in american elections? >> no. i mean i think whoever wins wins. he will win if he runs again. but the people that know we were cheated are almost at the point of saying i don't want to vote because it'll happen again. because it'll happen again. >> what is your reaction to hearing from an american like that? >> well, ten years ago shock and disbelief and i would have thought, well, she's an outlier and she's not representative of anything larger than a fringe monument, maybe. but of course that's not the case anymore. >> barbara walter is a professor at the university of california in san diego. she has studied civil conflict for years from yugoslavia to northernire lnld. >> experts who study civil wars and know the warning signs, we've been talking about them, but nobody wanted to believe it. and january 6th made it impossible to deny and ignore that there really was this cancer growing in our own country. there was a threat that was mobilizing. >> she warns the constant barrage of lies undermining american elections, right-wing media on social media and from trump himself has put the united states on a perilous path. >> citizens do believe what they are hearing. and if they hear it long enough and consistently enough, and if that's all they hear they absolutely don't think it's a lie. they think it's the truth. >> will you trust the next election? >> probably not. >> but that's a terrible thing, right? >> yeah, it's a terrible thing. >> i don't think you can trust our government anymore. it's sad, but i really don't think you can. >> that's what trump is all about and making the elections in the future fairer so we can believe when you vote for somebody, that person's going to get your vote. >> they're good people. they're trying to do what they think is right. it's the leadership that's cynical. it's leadership that knows better who's feeding them lies consistently. >> they're always talking about the big lie. they're the big lie. >> while just 30% of americans think there is solid evidence that there was widespread fraud in the 2020 election, 62% of republicans say so. looking ahead to the 2022 mid-term elections, only 42% of republicans say they're very positive the results will be counted accurately. >> they're priming their supporters to believe that democracy isn't worth defending because they don't want democracy anymore. >> and donee o'sullivan joins me now. great piece as always. i'm kind of curious when you talk to these trump supporters do they have any ideas for an alternative to democracy? i guess maybe it's dictatorship, the trump dictatorship. >> we've spoken to i guess hundreds of trump supporters all across the country over the past year and since the election. and, you know, we have heard from people along the way when there was a coup happening in myanmar last year. americans, trump supporters are looking to that saying, oh, that would be great if that happens here and trump would be put back in power. i did notice at trump's repeat rally in arizona a few weeks ago is we spent so much of the past year hearing fantastical claims about venezuelan voting machines and bamboo paper and everything else, and that's how the election was supposedly stolen. the messaging seems to be a little bit more disciplined now, and we're hearing less and less of that from people and more support, more just straight support for those restrictive voting measures that republicans are putting in place at the state level. so what we're seeing now is the base has been laid where there's all these conspiracy theories. people truly believe some of them. some of them really truly believe the election was stolen. some people i think as you saw in that piece, people literally draped in the american flag believe in this kind of stuff, and that is now they're giving their support to these kind of restrictive measures we're seeing across the country. >> well, thank you for what you do, donee. it's i hope deprogramming some people one person at a time, but great work as always, donee. good to see you. and mitch mcconnell is making some headlines today for his a warning to gop candidates running on trump's big lie. and though that sounds good i would argue in just a few moments it's kind of too little, too late. hold on for that next. ben isn't worried about retirement his personalized plan is backed by the team at fidelity. his ira is professionally managed, and he gets one-on-one coaching when he needs it. so ben is feeling pretty zen. that's the planning effect from fidelity we're carvana, the company who invented car vending machines and buying a car 100% online. now we've created a brand-new way for you to sell your car. whether it's a year old or a few years old. we wanna buy your car. so go to carvana and enter your license plate answer a few questions. and 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republican leader mitch mcconnell told cnn's manu raju he's encouraging gop candidates for congress to honor the election results in this country saying, quote, it's important for candidates to remember we need to respect the results of our democratic process unless the court system demonstrates that some significant fraud occurred that would change the outcome. i guess it's nice for mcconnell to say that, and it echoes some of the cautions to the party that we've heard from him in the past like when he blamed trump for the insurrection but voted to acquit the former president during the impeachment trial. now i can hear all of you guys saying right now mitch, please. mcconnell husband had a year to cleanup this party, and frankly, he's blown it. >> we need to get rid of this january 6th commission and replace it with a november 3rd commission. this january 6th commission is a total sham and waste of time. if they want to focus on something how about focus on the election cheating by the democrats? >> that's josh mandel, republican running for an open senate seat in ohio. his primary opponent is j.d. vance who tweeted out he's picked up the coveted endorsement of marjorie taylor greene. >> just finished with our meetings here at the white house this afternoon. we had a great planning session for our january 6th objection. we aren't going to let this election be stolen by joe biden and the democrats. president trump won by a landslide. call your house reps. call your senators from your states. we've got to make sure they're onboard and we already have a lot of people engaged. okay, stay tuned. >> stay tuned. unfortunately for mitch mcconnell the trump genie is already out of the bottle. apologies for the mental image, trump dressed up like barbara eden either that or the trump toothpaste was out of the tube. who would by trump toothpaste? wait, there's more. republican candidates for congress are running on the big lie big time. >> if you mess with a rattlesnake you'll regret it, but politicians never learn. they want total control, so they lie, waste our money, rig our elections, open our borders. >> i was one of the first to support donald trump for president. he made america great, but the democrats rigged the election. >> a higher system rigged against the people. president trump says the election was stolen, and he's right. >> it seems like the gop talking points for the upcoming mid-terms are already rigged against our democracy. you'll forgive me for being a bit skeptical of mcconnell's appeals for campaign kumbaya. he's backing senator ron johnson of wisconsin before admitting privately to a democratic activist trump lost. >> obviously skewed about the results. >> and mcconnell declined to call out alabama republican congressman mo brooks who was running for the senate in that state after infamously appearing at the january 6th stop the steal rally. >> today is the day american patriots start taking down names and kicking ass. >> now, i tried catching up with mo brooks last year in case you missed it but he took no names and kicked no ass. >> it's on video if you can just talk to us for a moment. >> you guys will lie through your teeth any chance you get. >> well, give me the chance to come on if you don't mind. >> there he goes. bye-bye. so, no, this is not a profile in courage from mitch mcconnell, more like a profile in calculation. still more chur chilean from what we've seen from texas senator ted cruz. >> you called this a terror attack when by no definition was a terror attack. that's a lie. you told that lie on purpose. >> the way i phrased things yesterday it was sloppily, and it was frankly dumb. >> i don't buy that. i've known you for a long time since before you went to the senate. you were a supreme court contender. and every word -- you repeated that phrase, i do not believe that you used that accidently. >> it still hurts to watch that. since then senator tail between his legs has been spreading this tucker carlson branded manure there was some kind of fbi plot to instigate the attack on the capitol and blame trump supporters. they pointed to a man named ray eps. there's no proof of any of it, but cruz has become tucker's tal tal tal talking parrot. check out this invite obtained by "the washington post" josh dossy of an upcoming gop fund-raising event. yes, it's for the party's srin retreat. yes they seem to have misspelled the word spring. the problem for mcconnell and the gop is that it's sring time for trumpism and our republican party while our democracy stuck in a winter of discontent. sure, we're ready to respect the results of the democratic process, but you guys go first. and when we return how the culture wars are also contributing to the erosion of democracy by pitting neighbor against neighbor. we'll shine a light on that next. virginia's new governor is asking neighbors to tune in -- excuse me -- to turn in other neighbors not for criminal activity. no, it all stems from the gop's latest culture war obsession. in office less than two weeks and governor glenn yuoungkin ha already setup a tip line for parents for teachers teaching children divisive subjects. in this tactic of pitting citizen against citizen is not just happening in virginia. recall the anti-abortion law in texas. and it allows anyone to sue another person for helping someone seek an abortion in the state. in fact, it seems republican leaders have gone all in on dividing the country in many ways. just listen to them. >> america is not a racist country. it's pastime for america to discard the left-wing myth of systemic racism. >> president biden wants to literally make millionaires out of people who value federal law. >> watch out, mr. potato head, you're next. i'm sorry, i think he's going by mr. potato ex. mr. potato head was america's first transgender doll and even he got canceled. >> maybe he should be making comments about mr. potato head some experts fear they could be weakening our democracy just as big as the big lie. author of the newsletter wait what. molly, you know, i seem to remember glenn youngkin campaigning in a fleece vest in virginia. i was told there was going to be a vest, not a soviet-style police state across the potomac from washington. >> yeah, it's really weird. he was elected. he wouldn't let trump come and campaign with him. he sort of pretended to be this kind of non-trumpy trump. and as soon as he got in there he started taking away masking in virginia public schools. he started with these teacher hot lines where you can rat out your teacher. i mean he's really gone full ron desantis right away. >> and it's not just youngkin. a recent report shows there are dozens of new proposals opening pathways to punish teachers teaching things parents don't like. why doesn't this upset the traditional conservative tenants of liberty, anti-censorship and freedom? i guess if you want to cancel your teacher you just have to e-mail the governor in virginia and wrap them out in other ways in other states. >> republicans have always been really sort of into canceling teachers. remembers in the '60s and '70s you had a lot of banned books in libraries. this is sort of one of those tropes we're going back to in this new republican party. banning books is never good. you never want to be on the side banning books. the good news, though, it is getting some kids who might not otherwise be into library. there is a bit of excitement of the idea there are books so dangerous if your kid reads them they will somehow become a democrat. >> that's right. rebelling against your parents by going to the library. i never did that when i was a kid, but, you know, we could start a trend. and youngkin's efforts as we said very reminiscent of the texas abortion law where residents are turning each other in. how concerned should we be about these laws that seem to be catching on of, you know, citizens ratting each other out? it's like canceling your neighbor across the street or next door. >> what happens with that texas sb8 law was that the supreme court made a decision by not making the decision, and they said, you know, it doesn't matter if we agree with the principle of the law we don't care how crazy it is. so instead of overturning it which a lot of court watchers even on the conservative side thought would happen now they let it stand. so the message was if you're a conservative governor and you want to pass a crazy law, remember trump has installed a third of the supreme court so you have a kind of blank check to do whatever you want. and i think we're going to see more laws like this. and i think we're going to see these blue states and red states are going to be very, very different because these red states have no inceptive to stop being trumpy. they're just going to race and become trump ier and trumpier. >> thank you so much for being with us tonight. we appreciate it. great to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> and we told you last night about the rigging of electoral maps, the gaming of the system for partisan advantage. it's only been getting worse and further dividing america, but there are some possible breakthroughs to combat new gerrymandering attempts. reality check with john avalon. there it is right there. he's on the case next. sorry, one sec. doug blows a whistle. 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yes! you'll know exactly how well you slept, night after night. we take care of the science. all you have to do is sleep. and now, save $1,000 on the sleep number 360 special edition smart bed, queen now $1,999. plus, 0% interest for 24 months on all smart beds. only for a limited time. it will still be a few more months before all state houses settle on their new congressional maps, but the brennan center for justice is already calling this redistricting cycle one of the most abuse-laden in u.s. history based on the way some states are entrenching racial discrimination and partisan gerrymandering into their maps. still there are some notable instances where recent reforms and federal courts are keeping partisans in check. john avlon has tonight's reality check. john, it sounds like maybe a silver lining or some good news mixed in here? >> there must be a pony in here somewhere. let's see if we can find it, jim. all right, look, the rigged system of redistricting is one of the prime drivers of of our democracy's dysfunction. and it's going on right now. it's only once a decade after the census do congressional maps get redrawn. and we're once again seeing how cynical these professional partisans can be. but we are also seeing unexpected signs of hope in places where dogged citizen-driven reform efforts seem to be working. we're seeing the good, the bad, and the ugly in american politics on full display. and the jury's still out as to which one will carry the day. just yesterday a federal court threw out proposed congressional maps in alabama drawn by the republican state legislature to have only one democratic district out of six seats. the court held this likely violated the voting rights act in a state that's 1/4 black. and that's not the only pushback. this month the ohio supreme court threw out an even more absurd partisan gerrymander where republicans tried to push through a congressional map where all but two or three seats out of 15 would be republican. despite democrats actually having a registration advantage in the state and voters adding non-partisan redistricting reform to the state constitution in 2018. luckily, republican chief justice maureen o'connor joined with democrats on the bench to stop this blatant attempt to override the will of the voters. so yeah, these reforms can work. if they're given half a chance. take michigan where one of the country's most gerrymandered political maps has suddenly been replaced by one of the fairest, to quote "the new york times." a ballot initiative pushed was passed over partisan obstruction. and while the results don't benefit any one party, that's kind of the point, people. they set up a fair fight. competitive general elections. what a concept. it means that the politicians running in those seats won't simply be able to get away with playing to the base. they'll actually have to reach across the aisle and win over the reasonable edge of the opposition. which is how democracy's supposed to work. but that's exactly what's been under systematic attack. the incentive system in our politics is all screwed up. by design. and that's why the parties are preoccupied with these purity tests and don't seem to give a damn about working together to solve common problems. you don't believe me? let's dig into the data. according to the cook political report, there were 164 congressional swing seats in 1997. that's a plurality with competitive general elections. fast forward 20 years later. you see that number is down to 72. with republican-safe seats skyrocketing to 195 and democrats to 168. and if we don't do something, it's going to get much worse. exhibit a is the cracking republicans are trying to pull off in tennessee right now. it's important to remember the real divides in american politics are not actually red state versus blue state. as much as they are urban versus rural. for example, it might surprise you to learn that the vast majority of southern cities voted for joe biden. take nashville. it voted almost 2 to 1 for biden over trump. it's a fast-growing city. and so state house republicans are trying to push through a map that would effectively divide nashville's davidson county into three districts to dilute the county's minority vote. that's the purpose. that's the point. and yes, democrats play the partisan power grab game as well. take a look at two of the ten house republicans who had the courage to impeach donald trump. adam kinzinger and john katko. they put country over party. but democrats in illinois and new york rewarded their courage by threatening to redraw their districts. and both men decided not to run for re-election as a result. that's a real loss for our democracy. as these battles play out in state after state we should see how many of our partisan divides are being exacerbated by design. it's no wonder we've learned in recent weeks about how the trump administration tried to politically influence the census count to benefit republicans in redistricting. according to workers at the census bureau. they were literally trying to rig the count in their favor. that's as ugly as it gets. the rigged system of redistricting is at the root of so much of our division and dysfunction. but we've seen that non-partisan reforms can work and restore more competitive seats in congress, which will incentivize our representatives to work across the aisle. so no, election reform isn't some wonky distant thing. it gets to the heart of our democracy. if we have rules that reinforce our patriotic obligation to put country over party. and that's your reality check. >> sounds good to me, john avlon. let's do it now. >> let's do it. >> let's do it. appreciate it so much. thanks, john. we'll be right back. so you oy for what you need, and we gotta do it fast. 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"don lemon tonight" starts right now. how are you, don? >> you have 2022, which is coming up. and so we're going to see what happens with all of these laws that are taking place across america. that is a precursor to what happens in 2024. our democracy is in peril. the question is can it withstand the two upcoming elections? especially, jim, the one coming up in 2024 where we might have the former guy back in the mix. >> yeah, i mean, one of the things, don, that people are -- they're sort of having a guessing game about is whether or not trump is going to run for president. he's essentially -- he's pretending to run for president right now. so it doesn't make any difference. and you know, one of the things that we hear, don, and maybe you hear too, is oh you guys, you're so obsessed with trump, you talk about trump all the time. well, if he is the leader of the party -- >> trust us, we don't want to. but go on. >> we don't want to. but i call it the trump-owned party, the t.o.p. if that is how it's going to be, and he is for all intents and purposes the front-runner and the leader of the party how can we not have this conversation about him? and he is at the very heart of all of these dangers facing our democracy right now. >> well, i mean, look, there's example after example that comes every single night if you look at what's happening with the supreme court, what's happening with affirmative action, what's happening with a woman's right to choose. what's happening with election laws around the country. that is a direct, right, example of elections have consequences. >> absolutely. >> there's an election coming up in 2022. but you look at what's happened since the last election. look at the big lie. look at the people who are lying about the ne