speaking out. you have to see what happened in this interview with charlemagne thee god. but, first, another covid search and a new set of questions. the covid-19 pandemic has been one long, excruciating lesson about humility, and about being humble in the face of changing circumstances, and a wily virus. it's about being open to new information, new inputs, new approaches. it's about accepting experts sometimes get it wrong and that leaders sometimes fail to lead, and that journalists who strive for clarity sometimes stoke confusion. humility means recognizing different points of view. humility means being respectful of the trauma of the past two years. [ bell tolling ] the washington national cathedral tolled this funeral bell 800 times this week to honor the 800,000 lives lost to covid in the u.s. that's a humbling death toll. everyone has lost something or someone to this pandemic. humility realizes people mourn in different ways. it is still okay not to be okay. it is okay to be unnerved by the latest news. but humility also means understanding why others have moved on. different people evaluate risk differently. some folks who are vaccinated and boosted are fully back to normal. so are some unvaccinated. but others in both camps are still taking lots of extra precautions and many are confused about what to do, what the smartest choice is. the omicron variant, as this professor writes, is a case study in unknown risks. the more unknowns there are, the more humble we must be. the more careful journalists must be. omicron may be milder but it is still overloading hospitals because it's so damn transmissible, that's what experts are signaling. hopefully those experts and health experts and leaders are feeling humble too. so much of what we were told two years ago has not aged well. we were told two weeks to stop the spread. we were told to scrub the virus away. later it became very clear airborne transition is the key but i still psas and politicians talking about handwashing. are they really following the science? we were also told vaccines meant freedom, and yet 2021 has been this year of limbo as "the new york times" calls it, mask on, mask off, and then back on again. humility means being able to adapt, adjust, accept error but woutz succumbing to fatalism. there's a popular right wing thinking saying screw the experts, they've been wrong all along, ignore them and move on. there's a doom and gloom event to that coverage. here's misery on 34th street. i say bah humbug to that. getting covid in 2021 mean something different than december of 2020. the news coverage must convey the differences. i know there are flashbacks to march 2020 but the differences are the story. we need to convey that as the story changes, attitudes have to change too. you know the story we heard all along, living with covid. the key word of that phrase is covid, the key word is living. that brings me to some of the new questions that should be on the table now. the definition of cases is changing. with a highly transmissible variant, there are many, many, many cases, for example, here in new york city. more than 20 states are reporting rising cases right now. of course, that's the delta surge and then the new variant on top. so with this inevitability about more and more cases, what's the better metric to be using? how shall we be evaluating the fight against covid? does the nfl point the way forward? the nfl this weekend saying we're not going to be testing every player all the time for covid because a lot of them are positive and they don't even know it because they're asymptomatic. the nfl is only going to test if people show symptoms, if players show symptoms. is that the new way forward? it feels to me like in some media circles, this was the week where getting covid became an inevitability, that there's this acceptance everybody is going to get covid eventually, tens of millions of americans already have, and everybody else is going to at some point. is that the proper approach, just to accept that at some point you'll be infected, which doesn't mean you'll get sick, doesn't mean you'll suffer but at some point someone will be infected? is that the proper approach now? and if so, why is it still so hard to find that home test, especially in blue america. pro tip, if you want to find at-home tests, get somebody in red america, red state, to mail them to you since all of the stores at least here in new york as i have seen, are sold-out. and here's another question since we're hearing about schools closing again, we collectively took action to protect the elderly in 2020. now shouldn't we be doing more to protect children by letting them live normal lives? are we really going to let the kids suffer even more? and are the facts about covid getting through to the people who need to hear them? is the media setting the table in the proper way for this holiday season to help people through this confusing time? those are the questions, let's see if our guests have answers. david leonhardt is here, senior writer with "the new york times." he writes the morning newsletter and his cover covid extensively. he's also been ahead of the curve in explaining what's going on with these new variants. also with me katherine woou of the atlantic, staff writer at the atlantic, and lately that means covering covid. david and katherine, thank you both for coming on the program. >> thanks, brian. >> thank you for having us. >> how are you thinking about this weekend and these surges? you and i know what's happened the past few days. major metropolitan areas where a lot of journalists, there's been an incredible spike in covid cases, a lot of attention on it now and i think there's debates about how to be covering the story and how to be assessing cases differently. is the nfl the right pathway forward? is the nfl's changing protocol -- is that the right pathway forward now? >> i'm not sure it's the right pathway for everyone. i do think directionally it tends to treat this differently the way the nfl is doing it. here's basically how i think of it. i think, brian, your point about uncertainty is really the first point. there's an enormous amount about omicron we still do not know. based on the best available evidence, it almost certainly seems to be substantially more contagious than any prior variant. we don't exactly know why, how much of that is because of how it spreads between unvaccinated people or whether it's all because of the fact that vaccinated people are more likely to get mild cases than they were before. but it's more contagious. the early evidence suggests it's somewhat less severe. that is uncertain. and it is a little bit less reassuring than it may sound at first. let's imagine it's 30% less severe. that sounds like a big deal, but if it causes three, four, five times as many cases, it can still lead to overwhelmed hospitals. so i think uncertainty is number one. number two is it's more contagious. number three is as breaest as w can tell, it's not more severe than other cases. as katherine mentioned in her writing, if you're vaccinated and especially boosted, omicron probably does not change your health risk, individual health risk, in a huge way. but for the population, it's really scary. >> katherine, do you agree with david's assessment, is this really scary? >> yeah. i mean, i'm certainly in the camp where i'm deeply, deeply concerned. i never think it is time to panic but i think all of the warning signs are there. we have very little time to act, and honestly, our country was not prepared for a new variant that was moving this fast. to sort of grimace all the way back to the nfl strategy, i think there are some concerns there. we sort of have to strike a middle ground here. we know more post vaccination infections are going to happen. and we do i think have to find a middle ground towards catastrophizing all post vaccination exceptions and minimalizing cases because they do matter. i worry a little bit testing people only after they become symptomatic. we know with every version of this virus we've encountered so far, people become contagious well before showing symptoms. some never do. no, that does not impose a significant health risk to an individual but this is a problem. this is not just an infectious virus. this is not just eating healthier and avoiding folks. this is a dangerous stress. and there are others who may be more vulnerable than the person in question. >> if the average vaccinated and boosted american who gets covid is just going to have a few bad days in bed at most, then why should the country start to close schools and why should offices start to empty again, katherine? >> well, i think we do have to keep in mind that not everyone is vaccinated. certainly not everyone -- >> but they screwed up. what about for the vaccinated, boosted americans, why should they suffer now? >> i mean, hopefully, we can remind ourselves that again this is a collective issue. the decisions people make, regardless of vaccination status, are going to affect the people around them. not everyone vaccinated and boosted is entirely in the career. remember we have people who are elderly, people who our immunocompromised. while vaccinating is still the best move to protect themselves, not everyone reaches the same level of protection, even with the same number of vaccine doses and same vaccine brands. fully vaccinated and fully boosted or whatever language we're using, this has always been a heterogeneous population. i think we use the same terms for people but really the fully vaccinated are not a monolith and because we know they can still occasionally be infected, they may still be contagious. that means for every person not vaccinated around them, there is still going to be a risk or someone fully vaccinated and still at higher risk. we have to keep in mind that not everyone unvaccinated did make that choice willingly. we have young kids who haven't had the opportunity to get vaccinated. we have slightly older kids who may only be reaching the quote/unquote full vaccination now. and they haven't had that opportunity. we are always operating in a heterogeneous population and we do have to consider that globally the situation looks even worse. >> that's definitely true. when i say screwed up, i mean american adults who had chances and chances and chances and turned them down, partly due to disinformation pollution. i have two kids, 2 and 4, they can't get vaccinated. in my view the risk is low enough to them they should live normal lives and have wonderful childhoods and continue with life. david, isn't that what all this is about, it's all about risk assessment, and the risk assessment for someone older or immunocompromised will be different for someone with omicron than a healthy 30-year-old? >> that's right, and the tradeoffs are hard. closing school has been so damaging to children. not just closing it but the disruptions to it. children are at such little risk on an overall basis that closing schools in many every case would do more damage. not every case but almost every case, would do more damage. that to me is on one side of the spectrum. if we wanted to reduce flu deaths every year, we would close schools but obviously we decide school is more important. the flu is bad. it kills 30 million to 40 million americans every year. covid is much worse than the flu. so taking those operations for covid makes sense but it also doesn't make sense to go to some zero covid strategy. and what he said was important we can't create another pandemic in the course of trying to treat one and we have. we created a mental health pandemic and physical health pandemic. when you look at drug overdoses and rates among mental health problems with kids, when you look at the massive learning loss among kids, we have to weigh all of this when saying what sorts of things are we going to do in order to respond to covid. unfortunately, every single choice brings health costs to it. >> is there a part of you, david, that wonders if the media is overreacting right now, given we just don't know that much about omicron yet? >> the media is no monolith, as you know. could we find examples of the media overreacting? yes, we could. there have been times i would say clearly the dominant strain of media coverage has been overreaction. i don't think we're in that moment right now. again, we can find examples of overreaction. but omicron is serious and it requires a really nuanced response in which we try to acknowledge the fact that for most boosted people, the risks really remain quite low. for children, they remain minute sch minuscule. you're probably putting your kid in more risk by putting them in a car today than omicron presents. and yet it not only presents a risk to the unvaccinated, as katherine was saying, but it does to older people in their 70s and 80s. i'm not saying we should grind to a halt to get that number down to zero but to say cases are rising rapidly, we don't know what's going on, there's a good chance we'll have overwhelmed hospitals, i think that's the right message at this point for the media to convey. >> david and katherine, thank you both for the insight. after the break, what cnn and others are are doing in response to the surge. and fox's embarrassing rival situation. we have fresh details you won't hear anywhere else. are the only thing you'll be waiting on ♪ ♪ joy. fully. this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. this is what it's like to have a comprehensive wealth plan with tax-smart investing strategies designed to help you keep more of what you earn. and set aside more for things like healthcare, or whatever comes down the road. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity. 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"snl" as well dropping its live show instead of putting on a taped performance, having to mostly run taped practice rehearsals from earlier in the week and you will see there a few of the stars being able to celebrate at the end of the episode, but all masked up. so what happened to "snl"? a raft of positive cases. so many crew members, perhaps staff members, who tested positive made it impossible to put on a normal show. and all of this, of course, takes a psychological toll. even hearing about it has an impact. all of these daily, hourly, even minute-by-minute headline about covid makes us feel like we're heading back in time when in fact we're not and the situation is much better than it was nearly two years ago for the vaccinated. with me is derrick thompson, staff writer for "the atlantic" and author of the work in progress news letter. you write about the media consumption, how it affects people, what they read. i have a lot of sympathy for viewers right now who are getting -- not necessarily contradictory signals but a lot of information, confusing information about these new variants. >> yeah, i do too. i have a lot of sympathy for them as well. there's a new netflix satire by adam mckay out called "don't look up," which is a satire about global warming which a lot of think is about covid as well. it stars leo dicaprio, meryl streep. a asteroid is about to hit the earth and the media wants to ignore the story. the moral is the media is ignoring things in a telescope lensz b but the vast majority of stories are not like a clear picture of asteroid in a telescope lens. a lot of time that image is blurry. we don't know if it's an asteroid, a dove, raven or balloon. now a lot of people are trying to figure out, what exactly is the shape of this omicron threat? and it's not particularly clear. one quinn point, meteorologists -- not most journalists but meteorologists have a way of talking about predictions that involve percentage odds of certainty. they say 40% chance of rain, 90% chance of high wind. it might be nice for us to sort of steal that in epidemiology reporting and future reporting saying, we have 90% certainty this is more transmissible but only 6% certainty it's less severe. i think those percentage odds might help people. >> right. that's very interesting. try to get people the best data necessity can. we know there are different audiences the media is programming and producing for. when i'm on cnn, i feel like i'm speaking to a vaccinated and increasingly boosted audience. if i were speaking on fox news, it might be 50/50, half the office is vaxed, half is not. do you feel like the vaccinated media is doing an effective job and whether we're talking to? >> i think we're doing an okay job. the way i think about it is there are three circles of risk, con centrist circles. in the center circle there are people like me and you. people who are boosted in their 30s, 20s, 40s, and i think it's important to point out everything we know about the omicron chain suggests boosted individuals do not same the same risk they did from the og coronavirus in march 2020. it's a different kind of risk. it's much, much lower. then one ring out and katie hoop from the atlantic was just talking about this, there are seniors compromised in our networks. i just canceled train to see my 94-year-old grand moirjs because i couldn't get a rapid test. i did not want to mix households knowing she was older and not boosted. and david talked about how they face a much larger danger. and outside of this is the circle of people who could get vaccinated and haven't. as we've seen over the month there's a larger difference between share of people dyeing of covid vaccinated versus unvaccinated. the unvaccinated face a much higher risk of omicron of delta, which is very much sort of the reality here. those are the rings i think about, boosted ring, immunocompromised and healthy around the boosted ring and largely the vaxing of the unpopulation in the u.s. and world. i think it's important for the media and u.s. to address them individually, when are we writing for ring one and when are we writing for ring three? >> interesting. when we're doing that, what do you suggest about not causing undue fear and anxiety? there's a certain level of anxiety and stress you feel just about hearing about the subject at all and i get that. i want to make sure we're not drumming up undue fears at a moment like this. because it can take you back to march 2020 without intending to. >> i think it's important to point out, you know this, i know this, i think people that watch your show know this, the media does have a negativity bias. the media often does lean a bit more towards catastrophe. during a pandemic i think it's largely better to air on the side of negativity. but at the same time i think we don't report the same kind of positive evidence we see in the data. right now i think it's very important to be clear, when we look at the early outbreaks in south afc, you look at places like the netherlands and places like death madenmark, yes, we'r seeing with 90% confidence, this thing is more contagious than previous strains of covid. what we're also seeing in place after place is evidence of milder disease. whether that milder disease is coming if the fact there's a lot of immunity banked in these populations because they just got delta or recently vaccinated, that can be, but i think it's important to put an emphasis on both of these facts. we are seeing more contagiousness and more mild cases. they are both important to point out. >> for what it's worth, it's worth very little. i assume i will get it at some point and everybody i know but because we're vaccinated and boosted, we have better and better chances. derek, thank you for coming on the program. good to see you. up next, how much will the big lie cost fox news? 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[echoing] get a quote today. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ in a recent clinical study, patients using salonpas patch reported reductions in pain severity, using less or a lot less oral pain medicines. and improved quality of life. ask your doctor about salonpas. it's good medicine. xfinity rewards are our way of thanking you just for being with us. enjoy rewards like sing family fun nights! rent sing for $1, then belt out all your favorite tunes from the movie with sing karaoke. plus, see sing 2 in theaters with buy-one-get-one free fandango tickets. join over a million members by signing up for free on the xfinity app. our thanks. your rewards. fox news once branded itself as pro-police, pro-military, pro-law and order. but that's not believable anymore, if it ever was, because fox has done its part to make january 6th disappear. not only did we hardly ever cover the continuing daily fallout from the trump riots, they disparaged the people who do, they blast democrats and liz cheney and media outlets for caring. >> they're obsessed with january 6th. >> they're getting crushed by inflation. their vote elizabeth wagmiester are getting crushed by inflation but all they care about is january 6th. >> they want this distraction. they want to have this story out there. >> this january 6th fixation. >> the entire january 6th campaign has become one of revenge and defamation. >> those are just a few of the comments from this week after cheney read aloud the text messages that sean hannity and laura ingraham and brian killny sent to mark meadows during the 1/6 attack. now mark lavigne is furious with the committee. >> this committee is violating the bill of rights, it's violating due process. this committee is on a quote/unquote criminal hunt trying to get people humiliated and embarrassed. >> embarrassed you say, humiliated, is that how your colleagues feel? are they capable? with me now, former fox news julie roginsky, claire atkinson and cnn senior reporter claire darcy. you used to work at fox, liberal strategist, commentator. you have been on the air with some of these folks. do you feel like sean hannity, la laura ingraham, were they embarrassed this week when that was read aloud? >> you have to remember the two types of people at fox news, the sean hannitys and bret baiers and the ones that they understand fully what they're doing and fully understand they're not telling viewers the truth. i don't think sean hannity and laura ingraham are embarrassed because i think they truly believe what they're saying on air. they truly think this is a witch-hunt. they truly think the president is getting some kind of unfair tagging, even though laura ingraham herself said the president was destroying her legacy while he was doing what he was doing but i think she clearly forgot that on january 6th. the rest, however, are more complicit because they obviously know what they're saying on air is insane and yet they're saying it because the ratings demand this they do. >> oliver, how do the text messages link up to the other big fox story of the week, which is dominions lawsuit, defamation lawsuit against fox, is being able to move forward? the lawsuit survived a motion to dismiss, which means now it will enter the discovery phase. and this is all about the big lie on 1/6. how do you link these up? >> i think they show that it's incredibly difficult, brian, it's uncomfortable to build a business based on lies. this is what it's about, fox hosts and fox news' network lying to viewers. now they've been exposed and facing litigation which could cost them a lot of money because they were not honest with the viewers. they were dishonest. i think that's really the thorough line here. maybe the advice for fox would be just tell the truth once in a while. >> claire, will fox try to settle and do you think dominion will go along with this? >> that's a very good question. i'm sure there are concerns how much it will cost them, brian. but i think it's important to think about fox news as a business and context of what was going on around january 6th. the fox news had called the election early in arizona, but fox news viewers got very angry when trump lost. some went off to newsmax. it was imperative at the time fox news hung on to those viewers and if trump becomes there again, it will be very important to support him. fox news knows what viewers want. they know fox viewers are still behind donald trump for the most part. this is a $3 billion business when you look at advertising subscriptions. >> right. >> it's fox's 25th anniversary this year. they're celebrating being number one not just in news but all of cable. i think that's important to remember, that fox news is an incredibly powerful outlet when it comes to giving viewers what they want to hear, entertainment as well as what they produce in the daytime. and so this is -- what happened on january 6th created reputational damage not just for fox news hosts but for everybody associated with donald trump at that time. >> that's the thing though about the business, i was going to come and say, was this their worst week ever? i could easily make the argument this was fox's first week, losing chris wallace to cnn and having this defamation lawsuit moving forward and having to delete an anti-semitic cartoon from their instagram because they didn't catch it in time, it's been a string of embarrassments for fox but yet it's probably not their worst week, claire, because the machine keeps humming along. >> absolutely. >> i hate to be less cynical, oliver. is there a lesson to take here? >> i don't know, there probably is, but nothing can seem to get fox or motivate them to do the right thing and not lying to viewers and pump out conspiracies. i was just watching maria bartiromo's show interviewing trump and she's asking questions about whether or not someone is directing biden or in charge of the country. this is looney stuff. it seems there's no amount of litigation that can force them to being honest with viewers and toning back some of this coverage. i have hard time with a more on the myoptimistic take, brian. >> speaking of trump, he gets out there saying the bad stuff again, sorry, bs stuff again. let me put this headline on the screen. this is bs. "vanity fair" headline describing another trump interview. trump goes full anti-semite, unloads on american jews in a wildly big otted rant. this will barely get attention, julie, even though it's disgusting, because he does this stuff all the time. but i do think we need to pause and acknowledge what he said, he's attacking "the new york times," engaging in very deep anti-semitic commentary and, julie, it's never acceptable, never okay. >> well certainly, listen, i'm jewish and here go my twitter mentions but this is par for the course. >> sorry. >> as to what donald trump said, i remember i was on fox when the whole yellow sheriff star, you remember the yellow star of david was reported to be some yellow sheriff star, controversy in 2016. i criticized it at the time on megyn kelly's show, which obviously is no longer on fox. the amazing anti-semitic tweets i got just calling out the president -- he wasn't even president then but calling out the candidate at the time saying this is not okay, this is unacceptable. the default answer always is is daughter and son-in-law are jewish. so what? so what? he has a consistent bias when it comes to anybody that's not him. he's a white, straight waspy man and if you don't fall into that category, he disdains you. whether you're a woman, jewish, african-american, latino, he disdains you. the fact his own base won't call it out -- i'm not surprised they don't -- but the fact the media in his pocket won't call it out is more shameful to me. there are not many jewish people working at fox so i don't know if somebody brought that to the attention to the executives on the second floor but somebody should. this is not the behavior that should be condoned by the number one cable station around right now. this is unacceptable. >> these interviews all the time, he gives them to mike huckabee and now maria bartiromo. i'm glad you watched the interview this morning with maria bartiromo because this stuff gets missed. these comments about jews were in a publication that just came out a few days ago. but these keep coming, interviews keep coming. if interviewers ignore trump, i think they ignore them at their peril. thank you all. still to come, joe manchin torpedoed the build back better bill this morning. we have analysis from the one and only carl bernstein. he's next. ♪ exploring the heart of historic europe with viking, you'll get closer to iconic landmarks, to local life and legendary treasures as you sail onboard our patented, award-winning viking longships. you'll enjoy many extras, including wi-fi, cultural enrichment from ship to shore and engaging excursions. viking - voted number one river cruise line by condé nast readers. learn more at viking.com. trelegy for copd. 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[echoing] get a quote today. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ hi susan! honey? yeah? i respect that. but that cough looks pretty bad... try this robitussin honey. the real honey you love... plus the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? now get powerful relief with robitussin elderberry. was this a watergaty week? that's what the philadelphia i choirer's will bunch said on twitter. he wrote, any other boomers out here remember watergate? i was 12 to 15 but i was a washington nerd. this reminds me so much that the initial feeling of the break-in will be forgotten and suddenly the stories flow ten months later. of course, talking about the 1/6 committee and the investigation who the who knew what when, talking about the conspiracy surrounding january 6th. is there a conspiracy? let's ask carl bernstein. you know him, of course, very well. he's coming out with a memoir next year called "chasing history: a kid in the newsroom." it's out in january, right? i read an early copy and i was amazed by your book. >> thank you so much. it is about my first days in journalism from 1960 to 1965, starting as a 16-year-old kid when i became a reporter, still as a teenager. >> that's a little teenager. we'll talk about what whether it comes out. later in your career, of course, you wrote about the breakup and watergate. did this feel similar to you at all? >> no, because the really important thing to remember about watergate is that courageous republicans cast their vote for articles of impeachment in committee against richard nixon, republicans went to the white house and told richard nixon that he had to leave office, that he was a constitutional criminal, he had undermined our electoral system and he had to resign, led by barry goldwater, the great con sieve tift party. republicans are doing nothing of the sort in the trump era. they've become the party of voter suppression. they have embraced a seditious conspiracy led by the president of the united states, donald trump, by his chief of staff, mr. meadows and also by a gang of constitutional thugs such as jim jordan. so what we have now is ongoing a conspiracy. looking towards the next election in 2024, the president of the united states in which the republican party is committed to voter suppression, which is really a seditious enterprise. so it's becoming a party of sedition such as we have never seen since the civil war and even then no president of the united states ever committed the kind of seditious acts as trump did on january 6th and through the end of his presidency. >> if that's the case, what do you want the press and the public to do? >> i think that we need to start covering -- the most important story for us to cover, yes, we need to continue giving hume prominence to covid and whatever breaking stories there are, but pro probably as in world war ii and as in the civil war, the coverage has to be of the real war. that could be four or five years as it was in world war ii and the civil war, and that is the fight against americans who want to vote. a party committed to keeping americans from voting. i covered the voting rights act of 1965 when it was passed. this party of seditious undermining of american democracy and our electoral system is trying to undo that voting rights act, which guaranteed all americans the right to vote. so this is the big story that we cannot lose sight of. we need to cover it like the war that it is every day, every important battle. yes, we need to cover all stories, but this story is ongoing and must be the focus of our attention because it is about the undermining of american democracy at its most basic level and it's been embraced by one of our two political parties. >> karl, let me put in a quick break. we'll get to the breaking news about joe manchin and president biden in just a moment. our forward-looking views of the market. 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(burke) seventeen-car garage you got there? ♪we are farmers♪ ♪bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum♪ i strip on public transit. i strip with the guys. i strip all by myself. breathe right strips open your nose for relief you can feel right away, helping you take in air more easily, day or night. at intra-cellular therapies, we're inspired by our circle. a circle that includes our researchers, driven by our award-winning science, who uncover new medicines to treat mental illness. it includes the compassionate healthcare professionals, the dedicated social workers, and the supportive peer counselors we work with to help improve - and even change - people's lives. moving from mental illness to mental wellness starts in our circle. this is intra-cellular therapies. in a recent clinical study, patients using salonpas patch reported reductions in pain severity, using less or a lot less oral pain medicines. and improved quality of life. ask your doctor about salonpas. it's good medicine. snacking can mean that pieces get stuck under mike's denture. but super poligrip gives him a tight seal. to help block out food particles. so he can enjoy the game. super poligrip. today senator joe manchin chose fox news sunday to share his decision about the build back better act, specifically that he was not vote for the act, a devastating blow to president biden and his agenda. of course, the headlines have all been about what's going to happen with the act, what's going to happen with the legislation. now manchin torpedoing it, at least for the time being. carl bernstein back with me. never say never for d.c. news, but this is a setback for biden. >> it's a huge setback. it shows, again, the power for senator manchin. what we have here is the interests of the american people in the legislation that is going to go down defeated or not come to fruition, a real interest of people, children, adults, day care, et cetera, et cetera, being put secondary to the short-term economic situation. short-term meaning that there's plenty of time to address problems of debt. it is an ongoing problem, but this is the one opportunity that weave had to do extraordinary things for the american people with this narrow democratic majority in the senate, and it's now been undermined by senator manchin. this also goes to the question of voting rights. unless there is something that can be done about the filibuster rule which manchin has indicated again he will not change, stls not going to be an effective legislative means of doing what needs to be done to guarantee american democracy for the right to vote for all americans without being suppressed as we're seeing now. that's the ongoing big story. >> carl, thank you very much. finally today, the vice president defending her boss in an interview with charlamagne tha god. watch what happens when one of her aides tries to interrupt -- >> who is the superhero -- >> -- >> i want to know who the real president of this country is? is it joe biden or joe manchin? >> i'm sorry. i don't think she can hear you. >> can you hear me? >> can you hear me now, madam vice president. >> i'm sorry to interrupt. >> they're acting like they can't hear me. >> i can hear you. >> who is the real president of this country, is it joe manchin or joe biden? >> come on, charlemagne. it's joe biden, and don't start talking like a republican about asking whether or not he's president. >> quite a mic drop by the vice president. striking to hear symone sanders to interrupt. apparently the interview was running long so she tried to move it along. quite compelling piece of tape from charlamagne tha god. >> that's it for this week's reliable sources. we'll see you back here next week. joy. fully. ♪ it's the most joyous time of year. especially at t-mobile! let's go to dianne. i got the awesome new iphone 13 pro and airpods, and t-mobile is paying for them both! and this is for new and existing customers. upgrade to the iphone 13 pro and airpods both on us. only at t-mobile. ray loves vacations. but his diabetes never seemed to take one. everything felt like a 'no'. everything. but then ray went from no to know. with freestyle libre 2, now he knows his glucose levels when he needs to. and... when he wants to. so ray... can be ray. take the mystery out of your glucose levels, and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free. visit freestylelibre.us before discovering nexium 24hr to treat her frequent heartburn... claire could only imagine enjoying chocolate cake. now, she can have her cake and eat it too. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn? 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("jingle bells") ♪ (doors knocking and bells ringing to the music) ♪ - [announcer] this holiday season, give the gift of grubhub. mom, hurry! our show's gonna start soon! i promised i wouldn't miss the show and mommy always keeps her promises. oh, no! seriously? hmm! it's not the same if she's not here. oh. -what the. oh my goodness! i don't suppose you can sing, can you? ♪ the snow's comin' down ♪ -mommy? ♪ i'm watching it fall ♪ watch the full story at www.xfinity.com/sing2 viral blizzard. the winter surge is here as the delta and omicron variants drive u.s. cases to new highs. >> we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death if you're unvaccinated. >> reporter: dr. anthony fauci and new hampshire republican governor chris sununu are here. and build back later? congress heads home for the holidays with little to show on president biden's key priorities. >> a 50/50 senate sucks and we can't get things done. >> reporter: can democrats

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