going on for dis. question. are they in the right place? we know that authorities are there for two solid reasons. laundrie's parents told investigators he left their home on september 14th, tuesday, to go to the carlton reserve, and that he never came back. second, his car was found there. but what if he never entered the park? could this be a ruse? the parents are said to be concerned that their son may be missing because he hurt himself. now, they got a lawyer and to our knowledge have offered up nothing else than what's been reported after being advised by counsel to remain silent. luckily for authorities other witnesses are coming forward. and they lead to our new developments. not information about where brian may be, but about the all-important timing and circumstances surrounding gabby's death. for those unfamiliar with the case, gabby petito was found dead on sunday. she was 22. she was found near the grand teton national park in wyoming. that's a part of the journey she had been on with her fiance, this cross-country trip with brian laundrie that started in june. police stopped them at one point. you are watching video of it. because of reports they had been in an altercation with one another. and then they drove off. now comes what could be a critical witness. a woman named jessica shultz. she claims she saw brian laundrie last month and the van that he and gabby had been driving. she saw them close to where gabby's body was found this past sunday in wyoming. she gave her account to the "san francisco chronicle" saying she has been in touch with the fbi and then she put out a tiktok video. here's her take. >> so i saw brian laundrie parking his van august 26th at spry creek. i already reported to the fbi what i had seen. and i wasn't 100% sure. now that there is dashcam footage of the van where i saw it, i am 100% certain that i did see him parking his van, and he was very kind of awkward and confused and it was just him. there was no gabby. but that's only because as a van lifer i was checking out their van and checking out to see if it was a couple or solo dude. it was a solo dude as far as i could see, unless she was in the back somewhere. but when i pulled up he was driving still and hadn't yet pulled over. so i was, like, hey, what are you going to do? are you going it get over? are you going to willet me pass because it's only one car on the road. he pulled over halfway. it made me drive out of the road to go around him. i thought it was really weird of the van was there for several days and nights and did not get booted. the weirdest part about it was, was that there was no indication that there was anybody actually at the van. usually small van people have their doors open, they are outside, they have a hammock, something. but we didn't see any signs of actual life at the van. >> now you get to, well, what's the reliability of this? shultz didn't comment to cnn and the fbi tells us it won't comment on the report and the chroniclecal citing privacy. let's unpack what this could mean for the timeline. shultz was referring to this dashcam video that other witnesses provided of what appears to be petito's van marked near the spread creek camping area. that's where petito was later found dead. now, shultz claims she saw laundrie parking it there. she did not see gabby. now, if that is accurate in terms of gabby not having been there, that could be relevant. she continued to notice it there for days. so, what does that mean on the overall timeline. the last time the petito family had proof gabby was alive was on august 24. how? she facetimed with mom. august 24th is the earliest day gabby could have been killed. now, i say it in very qualified manner, one, because we don't know, but, two, there is a reason to disbebelieve that. i will get to in a second. over the period of the next three days, august 25, 26, 27, there were multiple texts between gabby's phone and her mom. so she is alive. maybe. i say her phone because there is some doubt on the part of the family as to whether thete text were from gabby. one in particular seemed suspicious on the 27th according to her family. now you fold in what this alleged witness jessica shultz claims she saw laundrie and the van on august 26th. no gabby. at least that she could tell. parked near where the body was found. shultz told the chronicle she also saw the van parked the next day possibly on the it 28, but gabby and no laundrie on those two days. just the van. however, the idea that gabby could have been killed in that timeframe is subject to dispute. why? another new account from a woman who claims she and her boyfriend saw petito and laundrie at a restaurant in jackson hole, wyoming, on august 27th. and witnessed some explosive behavior. here is that account. >> so matt woke up this morning and was freaking out. oh, my god, i know how he looks familiar. we saw them in wyoming. they were the couple fighting at the restaurant. we were at this restaurant, you guys. friday, august 27th, 1:00 p.m. sitting right next to them. they got kicked out of the restaurant and were fighting with the hostess. they were fighting with the hostess. she was hysterically crying and she walked out and she was crying and she was staying on the sidewalk and i was watching the whole thing unfold. and he walked back in the restaurant and he's fighting with the hostess and i didn't know what happened. i don't know if they got kicked up but they, like, left abruptly and she was standing on the sidewalk crying and he walked back in and was, like, screaming @hostess and walked out and then he walked back in four more times to talk to the manager and to, like, tell the hostess off. >> look, all the drama and the intrigue can be dismissed. gabby was crying because of the altercation. we saw her crying on video. that could be consistent with her behavior. of the most important aspect, the critical ago pegt, i aspect the day, august 27th. now, the witness you saw says she and the boyfriend didn't connect the dots that the couple they saw at the restaurant that night was gabby and brian until this week when they started following the case in the news. a manager at the restaurant did confirm to cnn tonight that there was indeed an incident august 27 and they have contacted the fbi. this raises a lot of new questions. questions that gabby's fiance, brian laundrie, could help answer, but he refused to participate in any efforts to find gabby after he returned home without her on september 1st. gabby's parents reported her missing ten days later. why ten days? we don't know. that's for them to explain. her body was found on the 19th. laundrie has allegedly not been seen since last tuesday. so what might these new witnesses accounts mean to investigators? and if petito's fiance is found alive, is he vulnerable to arrest? better minds, joey jackson, cnn legal analyst, criminal defense attorney, and criminologist casey jordan. let's start with the second first. casey, i start with you. if they were to find brian laundrie, is what they know so far about his behavior and the circumstances enough for an arrest? do they have probable cause? >> well, we don't know exactly what they have. they are going to need evidence, and we don't know what the cause of death was. so the first thing they are going to want to do is bring him in and talk to him. but if -- i know joey jackson will talk about that, if he refuses to speak and they don't have any physical evidence that can link him with probable cause to prove to a judge, to get an arrest warrant, that whatever cause of death took gabby's life could be linked to brian laundrie, i think they need to get some evidence from him. we don't know what they have. we always think we know everything we know. but believe me, there are hold backs they are hanging on to so if they can speak to him they will get the information they need to effect an arrest if in order. >> where they are searching right now, there is a possibility that he went there, left the car there, but is not there among all the other possibilities. how does the fbi assess where they are searching in the right place? >> they keep searching if that is the only option they have. i think the red herring theory would fit here. i personally don't think he is there. he is too much of a puppet master and he is controlling the situation and there is in mumbo jumbo about the mustang going to the park and getting ticketed and ending up back at the parents' house. it would help if the parents were talking. but yi think the police are thee not because they have any indication other than the parents could be there, but because they don't have any proof or leads that he could be anywhere else. if that's the best lead they have right now because of what the parents said and because of course the mustang being parked there, that's the one they are going to pursue. 50% chance it might go somewhere. 50 p 50% chance they are there because they don't have anything else. >> joey, the witness accounts, what do they mean to you? >> a number of things. it's important to put together a timeline to identify exactly what occurred when and how. so understand this though. to the point and the question of probable cause, i believe that there is beyond probable cause to make an arrest. i think we have to let everybody know who is listening and everyone could have a different opinion whether there is enough evidence. the distinct between proving something at trial and arresting someone prior to trial is huge. why? because when you go to arrest someone, what is probable cause mean? it means two things. number one there is reason to believe that a crime was committed and, two, that the accused committed it. >> let's do this. let's do this. that is the law. that is the analysis. let's apply it to what is known here and you can make the case for why you think the tlo threshold has been met. let's take a break. we will discuss why everybody is hanging on the results of the autopsy. why is it not enough to know it was a homicide, meaning somebody else did this. their answers to that as well. we have them. stay with cnn. i've got moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months, after just 2 doses. skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms such as fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or coughs or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. ♪nothing is everything♪ talk to your dermatologist about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ oh! are you using liberty mutual's coverage customizer tool? 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[inflammation] i prefer you didn't! xiidra. not today, dry eye. before we talk about tax-smart investing, what's new? -audrey's expecting... -twins! ♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan. all right. we're back with joey jackson and casey jordan. casey is a criminologist and behavioral analyst and an attorney and joey jackson, of course, defense counsel extraordinaire, cnn legal expert. now, we are discussing the latest implications of new witnesses and the analysis of the search in the gabby petito missing situation. now, the laundrie home, we are told, that he returned from his trip alone to the house. charlene guthrie, who lives across the street says, quote, he mowed the lawn. him and his mother went for a bicycle ride. everything was normal life. it seemed like nothing bothered him. that's a stretch for her to know how he felt, but at least it places him at the home. because even that's an open question. so, joey, you were saying you believe if the fiance reveals himself or is found, police can already arrest. why? >> i believe that not only do i believe that, but i believe the prosecutors may have charges under seal or they are certainly working on them. it's important when we have this conversation we are not talking about a trial. we are not talking about proving someone's guilt are i cbeyond a reasonable doubt. we are not talking about making a case to the jury. clearly, we are not there yet. we are talking about a low standard. that standard in law is called probable cause which is reasonable to believe that a crime was committed and that the suspect under review committed it. and so what do we have? we have aplenty. am i saying he is guilty? no. i am saying there is reason to believe you are responsible, sir, and as a result we are going to accuse you of murder and we will have you prove the case in court or disprove, as it were. you go on a cross-country trip. you are documenting specifically with regard to where you are, what you are doing, who you are doing it with, the fun time you are having. you have that digital imprint. the blueprint. it goes out to the public at large. then what happens? all of a sudden it goes cold. it stops. and then what else happened? what happens is you go home and the person you were traveling with is missing. subject to that we determine she is dead and then you run or hide or wherever you are and you have clean hands in that regard? in addition to that, chris, you have all of these witnesses, which are attributing to his comport. and demeanor and the fight between the two. does that mean he is a amurdere? no. does that give you enough to make the arrest and make the case? that's all i'm saying. it's significant evidence and in the event he reveals himself he is going to be cuffed, prosecuted, going to be brought before a judge. i think bail is going to be set. >> two things. one, right now we don't know of any charges as you said may be under seal. he hasn't been named a suspect by police. there is no rush for them on that. why him? there are damning circumstances as common sense would suggest. you only know what you show. this isn't about crowd sourcing a consequence as part of a cancel culture. you've got to know things for real. you've got to demonstrate them in a prosecution. so, casey, that tells us to what picture is emerging? let me play you an example of brian laundrie that fuels suspicious. >> i was looking for the keys. i didn't want to go anywhere. and i didn't have my phone. i don't have a phone. she goes off without me. i'm on my own. so, i was saying let's go for a walk. she was trying to get the keys from me. back up, back up. she hit me. i didn't get -- i didn't ghetto vertly physical. i was just trying to keep her away. >> what does this mean to you? >> i see so much control going on there. it's her van but he keeps the keys to the van away from her. he is really just convincing the cops and probably gaslighting gabby, convincing them that she is the one with the mental issues. she is the one who might abandon him and jump in the van and lock him out. he doesn't have a phone. she could leave him there on the side of the road and go home without him. he is the powerless one. yet you know that the 911 phone call that brought the cops to bring brian, pull him over, is because a witness saw him slapping her. now he is saying he doesn't have a phone. we know they are struggling over a phone all the time, even the diner incident, you know, the latest information that they were having a fight with a hostess. there is always a phone involved. he says the skraccratches on hi face are struggling over a phone. it's indicative of an abusive relationship. we call them cobras. they are cold and calculating. they know exactly -- we call them puppet masters. they know how to mess with the mind of their partner. so everything is their fault. you have course, we see gabby saying everything is her fault s she grabbed the wheel, she is the one slapping him, and you just have to wonder, she is saying that because she is afraid of what is going to happen to her as soon as the police depart the scene. >> that's why it's so important to get the second part. autopsy finding. the first part was that this was not natural causes. it wasn't suicide. it was homicide, mean somebody killed gabby petito. the question is, how? those methods that weigh, manner of death or killing her, will be indicative whether it was a crime of passion that leads you to somebody closer in proximity, knows somebody, or was it something else? we will have to wait on that information. when i get it, i'd love to have you back. joey, casey, thank you both. >> good to be here. president biden's agenda. it's at a crossroads because of his own party, and that is the tricky part to swallow. it all hinges on moderate and progressive democrats coming together, even though they know they have an existential threat from the other side. people who have demonstrated they will do anything to beat them. are they risking helping their opposition right now? congressman josh gottheimer was at a key meeting with biden and other democrats today. where do things stand next. you need an ecolab scientific clean here. and here. which is why the scientific expertise that helps operating rooms stay clean now helps the places you go too. look for the ecolab science certified seal. this is the planning effect. as carla thinks about retirement, she'll wonder, "what if i could retire sooner?" and so she'll get some advice from fidelity, and fidelity will help her explore some different scenarios, like saving more every month. ♪ and that has carla feeling so confident that she can enjoy her dream... right now. that's the planning effect, from fidelity. can you be free of hair breakage worries? 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(vo) discover more in the all-new subaru outback wilderness. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. or is this just kind of the workings of the big tent? it seems to be dysfunction in the detective party and it seems to be showing up in the numbers. latest polling has 69% saying things are going in the wrong direction. the president's own approval numbers underwater for the first time. remember, polls to the extent that they are helpful are snapshots of a moment in time. and that's where biden is right now. he spent the day meeting with key members of his party. that includes next guest, representative josh gottheimer. good to see you, congressman. >> thanks for having me. >> hope the family is well. thank you for joining us. >> you, too. >> so the meeting today, we've heard different takes on the tone and tenor, biden was good, he was saying he has to work on it. but what is the reality? are there problems among members in the house or is this really just about joe manchin? >> no, at the end of the day we will have a very productive day on monday coming up. that's where we are going to rote on the bipartisan infrastructure package we have been working on for months. it got 50 democratic senators and 19 republicans last month. now we have to get it across the finish line. this is a bill, as you know, is so important to areas of new jersey and the tri-state area and across the country. we have got roads and bridges that are crumbling. the gateway tunnel between new york and new jersey is so important. and we got hit hard with hurricane ida, it includes key resources for resiliency to fight climate change. it's a critical part of the president's agenda and, frankly, critical to the country. now we have to get it across the finish line. you know how it is. we are working on other pieces of important legislation like the president's reconciliation package. we made good progress today. we are going to get both across the finish line. but for now, monday, we have to vote on infrastructure, take a big win, big bipartisan win for the country and continue our very hard work on reconciliation. >> i know you, congressman gottheimer, and you are telling me what you really believe, but you are also spinning the politics of your party right now. so i hear you, and i know how important the bill is. no question about it. it's very popular. but again two questions. one is jaiya paul in your party says a majority of the progressives will not vote this bill that you say you have to get across the finish line on monday unless the reconciliation bill is attached, and to me that is a window into the obvious. you got problems among your members. and what happens if they say you need both of these bills on the same time? doesn't that at a minimum make monday moot? >> at the end of last month we all went to the house floor and voted to bring in infrastructure bill, the roads, the bridges, the tunnel, climate to the floor on september 27th on monday. every single democrat voted for that. i think we will have the votes. we have got this, as you probably know, a masterful legislator who is better at getting votes than anybody else, pe nancy pelosi. she committed publicly then and reinforced it this week she will help get the votes. i am confident that come monday, it's a long way away in politics. come monday we will get this done, get it across the finish line. and i think -- >> without the reconciliation bill? >> as you know, the infrastructure bill passed the senate. it's sitting in the house. it's written and down. the reconciliation bill isn't written yet. we are still working on it. the one in front of us is on monday. but we are still working hard on reconciliation and we will get it done. we have to get it -- >> i am not countering what you want to happen. but your own people are saying, no. i mean, let me play jaiya paul for the audience for context. >> we said at the time that that deadline was made that that's great, but if we don't have the reconciliation bill, we will not be able to vote for the infrastructure bill. >> what do you say? >> i say that we can't afford any democrat to block the president's agenda. we can't afford to have any democrat vote against infrastructure which is why i'm optimistic. i am telling you where i am. i am optimistic come monday the votes will be there. we will have to work together between then and now, now and then to get it done. but we will. and again i am very confident about that and, you know -- >> why are you so confident? help me understand. you have always been the smarter guy. that's why i bring you on. jaiya paul is not known for being a liar and not known for being a brinks man type player. she says if we don't have them both, we are not going to do it. the reconciliation bill you could argue is a bigger part of biden's agenda that even the infrastructure bill. and this had been dismissed along the way as manchin and sinema and now it's as much about the house as it is the senate. what am i missing in your confidence? >> because when we in august agreed on this and came together and knew we had a bill that came out of the senate with everywhere one from bernie sanders to elizabeth warning to joe manchin voting for it, and we said we have so many issues that are facing the country and, you know, better than anybody, the roads, bridges, tunnels, climate change resiliency, we have to get that done. we agreed, every single democrat voted to bring up it up in september. we also agreed to begin work on reconciliation, which we have been doing and everyone i got it give our chairs an incredible sense of gratitude for all they have done to bring this bill along and we are almost there but we are still borkingong it. we are going to get that bill passed, too. but first separately we got to consider these pieces of legislation as they are. they are two different pieces of legislation. consider them on their own merits and we are going to do that monday and keep working. i hear what you are saying. i get it. the bottom line is working to bring everyone together. speaker pelosi are all behind it. we will get there. the president stressed today how important the infrastructure bill is to the country and, obviously, to his agenda. so we have to get there. i don't think anybody is going to vote to block the president's vote on monday. >> that is the big bet. and monday, you know, sometimes it's hype in the media. we try to make events out of things. you guys do, too. but monday is the real deal. we will see where the party is right now and whether or not you are going to be a help or a hindrance as a collective for the president's chances in your own -- >> i'm ready to vote for it, man. >> i know you are. you are a moderate. and i don'tmean that as an insu label. we will see how many of you guys are. congress monday josh gottheimer, you are welcome back on monday, sir, if you would like. >> pleasure. >> take care. and again josh gottheimer is a moderate, okay? the progressives are saying something else. and just a note to all of you good people out there that are commenting on this situation and saying it's just manchin, it's just sinema, it isn't. there are problems on the house side of the party. can pelosi get people in line? can biden help her do that? we will see on monday. but to say the problem doesn't exist is as foolish as the problem itself. donald trump has one niece, they are not close. mary trump has been warning the world about him. now he is suing her and some "new york times" reporters for the disclosure of his tax information. this lawsuit is very interesting and very risky. what is it? what is not in it? what could it mean? we have answers to those questions with the prosecutor who has gone after trump in the form of trump university before. he is surprised by this move. why? next. tonight... i'll be eating a club sandwich with fries and a side of mayonnaise. wonderful! mayonnaise... on fries? a little judgy, don't you think? that's weird. so weird. trading isn't just a hobby. it's your future. so you don't lose sight of the big picture, even when you're focused on what's happening right now. and thinkorswim trading™ is right there with you. to help you become a smarter investor. with an innovative trading platform full of customizable tools. dedicated trade desk pros and a passionate trader community sharing strategies right on the platform. because we take trading as seriously as you do. thinkorswim trading™ from td ameritrade. it's an important time to save. with priceline, you can get up to 60% off amazing hotels. and when you get a big deal... you feel like a big deal. ♪ priceline. every trip is a big deal. ♪ we believe everyone deserves to live better. and just being sustainable isn't enough. our future depends on regeneration. that's why we're working to not only protect our planet, but restore, renew, and replenish it. so we can all live better tomorrow. ♪ ♪ donald trump is suing his niece mary trump and several reporters from "the new york times." why? well, he wants $100 million because mary trump provided tax documents to "the times" which he says violated a confidentiality agreement she signed. but the suit is so much more than that in terms of what it could mean, the implications. especially in terms of what isn't there. you know what isn't in the lawsuit? what isn't in his complaint? about what mary trump and "the new york times" said about him? there is no claim of libel, meaning defamation, meaning he doesn't say that what they said is false. there is risk here, and that's why he didn't say that. the president, every claim he makes, the former president, opens him up to discovery on the same. and possibly sitting for a deposition. he would have to prove, for instance, that what they said about his taxes was untrue. how would he do to that? he would have to disclose. we have seen him do this before. he loves to threaten litigation. he threatened to sue me and my parents saying he wanted to damn me back to the womb. he was once in a lawsuit involving restaurants in his developing of the d.c. old post office building. most of the time it goes like this from when he was being sued over trump university. >> you and i had breakfast together this morning, right? >> yeah. that's false. depends how ymeant it, how you said it. it's a statement of highyperbol >> a statement of hyperbole. let's bring in tristan nfl, fo former new york state attorney general who led the prosecution in a acseparate trump universit case. what do you make of this lawsuit? >> you know, it's a curious animal. it's part nothing burger, but it's also really, in my view, a publicity stunt, and then it's a very fragile thing. you can liken it to a bit of a janga building where you are late in the game and the entire he had nice is resting on one block at the bottom. if you pull that block away, namely this nondisclosure contract provision, the whole thing will crumble. but it's a very curious thing. >> a curious thing from the former president's perspective. very straightforward. what did the confidentially agreement say? wh whats would have allowed you to breach it. that would be their side tv to the extent that they have to answer and defend. from the president's side, what is the risk? >> well, the risk is he actually has to engage in discovery, be dedee posed, testify under oath in a deposition. i think the kicker though is that he's gaming the system. it's much like the facebook and twitter lawsuit from a couple of months ago that now everybody has forgotten about. i don't think these cases are ever going to get to that point. i think the entire point of this is for him to go on offense, look like he is suing people so that his supporters will support his legal defense fund, and put money in his pocket that he can spend on all of this criminal defense work that is the real issue here for him. i don't think he ever intends for these cases to make it to a point where he would actually have to give sworn testimony. they will be gone by them. >> what is the chance he actually sits for a deposition? you say none because he would never let the suit get to discovery? >> i say none. i don't think will let it get to that point. they are playing a game. they know that the litigation process takes so long, it will be a year and a half, two years longer. they will stretch it out. they will basically say, oh no, the scope of the deposition is too broad. no, mr. trump doesn't need to sit for the deposition. they will make the other side go to a motion to compel with the judge. they will stretch the whole thing out, even though he is the plaintiff and the one bringing the case. usually the person stonewalling is the defendant. in these cases, i think you will see trump stonewall because he doesn't want to engage in discovery. he doesn't want to hand over documents. he doesn't want to testify. >> tristan snell, the perspective valued as always. thank you. all right. i want to show you what happened today with one of trump's main bodyguards on the hill. senator ted cruz, he had some back and forth with a professor on the laws in his own state. remember, cruz is considered a legal genius and a constitutional scholar. did you see what happened in this back and forth about whether or not voter i.d. laws can be racist? i have it for you to see and then to discuss the implication with one of the truly better minds. michael eric dyson. so smart, he has three names. next. welcome to allstate. where you can pay a little less and enjoy the ride a little more. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ now, get new lower auto rates with allstate. because better protection costs a whole lot less. you're in good hands with allstate. click or call for a lower auto rate today. we're carvana, the company who invented car vending machines and buying a car 100% online. now we've created a brand-new way for you to sell your car. whether it's a year old or a few years old. we wanna buy your car. so go to carvana and enter your license plate answer a few questions. and our techno wizardry calculates your car's value and gives you a real offer in seconds. when you're ready, we'll come to you, pay you on the spot and pick up your car, that's it. so ditch the old way of selling your car, and say hello to the new way at carvana. what can i du with less asthma? 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[ sneeze ] are you ok? oh, it's just a cold. if you have high blood pressure, a cold is not just a cold. unlike other cold medicines, coricidin provides powerful cold relief without raising your blood pressure be there for life's best moments with coricidin. now in sugar free liquid. law grad ted cruz, constitutional expert, appeared to get the short end of a debate on voting rights during a judiciary hearing. he asked usc law professor tolson whether she thinks voter i.d. laws are racist. here's part of the exchange. >> so it depends. one thing we have to stop doing is veeting owl voter i.d. laws the same. >> your answer -- i want to move quickly. it depends is your answer? >> yes. >> so what voter i.d. laws are racist? >> apologies, mr. cruz. your state of texas, perhaps. >> okay. so you think the entire state of texas is racist. what about requiring an i.d. to vote is racist? >> i think it's reductive. not the entire state of texas -- >> you said my state of texas. you tell me -- >> absolutely. so the fact that the voter i.d. law was put into place to diminish the political power of latinos with race as -- >> you are inserting that. what is your evidence? >> the federal district court that first resolved the constitutionality of texas' voter i.d. law. >> your view is voter i.d. laws are racist. how about you, mr. yang? >> i agree. voter i.d. laws can be racist. >> there are some voter i.d. laws that are racially discriminatory in intent. >> now, let's move past the shame of cruz playing cruz playing such a silly game, oh, you called the whole state racist. no, the professor didn't, she said in response to his question about what laws, your state's law. it's a dirty trick because it's not about the law even for a legal expert because it's about something else. what? let's bring in michael eric dyson, author of "entertaining race." welcome back to prime time. >> thank you, my friend. it's great to be here. >> what is your diagnosis of the debate? >> well, it was a she nan began, it was a sleight of hand. senator cruz knows this is not about the whole state of texas being racist. it's about the fact that you can have a concealed license i.d. that will sufficiently qualify you to get a voting rights -- to have your voting rights and to exercise them, but you can't use your state -- your student i.d. so we know in north carolina, for instance, until recently when that law was struck down that you couldn't -- you couldn't use your public assistance i.d. or you couldn't use your state employee i.d., which are disproportionately held by black people. in wisconsin until recently -- well, now they accept military, you know, live enrolled active military i.d. but not the veterans' i.d. so the disproportionate impact on black people and brown people is sufficient. then when you add in the fact that it takes a lot of money to get the underlying documents. the reason a lot of black folk don't have state issued i.d.s, 25% of black voters don't have government i.d.s compared to only 8% of white people. why? because the underlying documents are hard to get. then trying to get them as a black or brown person living in rural areas, trying to go to document centers, paying the fees anywhere from 75 to $175. that doesn't sound a lot for people who are upper class, but people struggling every day trying to make ends meet, this is a deleterious impact on them. even if you exclude intent, the disproportionate consequence on black and brown voters and other abled, disabled voters added in, you've got a nasty affair on your hands. >> here's the problem, polls of popularity, if you look at whether or not people want voter i.d., let's say you take the monmouth poll which we respect as a source, from june, 80% support. there's another poll that shows that the number is similar even with non-white voters, 80, 84%. so if everybody wants it, why fight against it? >> well, look at what ted cruz did today. if you're trying to set it up with disingenuous intent and you're dishonest, people are going to go that's horrible. when you break it down for people and you begin to ask them other questions, do you think it's fair for people to have to go a certain distance when they have other valid forms of i.d. do you think it's important that people who have respect for the law and have certain issued i.d.s and not others that they should be somehow disqualified the answer is no. it depends on how the polls ask the questions. let's admit it, when martin luther king jr. was fighting for civil rights in this country, the polls began to catch up to where the conscience of the nation was. polls register our contemporary opinion that should be shaped and molded according to the principles and practices of democracy that we claim to embrace. >> how dangerous is it for the democrats if they do not pass the voting rights bill that is before them? >> it is awful darn dangerous. we got to stand up. don't be feckless or spineless. stand up and say this is wrong. we know this is wrong. we know that the people are doing this, you know, rhetorical ledger domain as ted cruz was doing today, the sleight of hand. you know darn well this stuff does not have good intentions. it was good enough to elect old man bush, it was good enough to elect young man bush, but all of a sudden there needs to be vast reform when democratic power began to assert itself. this is not about the law. this is not about legal procedure. this is not about even the ostensible mess-ups of the system, the hiccups and so on. this is about a naked power grab and the democrats have to find their voices and their consciences and say enough is enough. and we have to pass this bill. >> michael eric dyson, always intelligent, always a plus. thank you for joining us. >> thanks for having me, my friend. >> all right, we'll be right back with the handoff. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ oh! are you using liberty mutual's coverage customizer tool? sorry? well, since you asked. it finds discounts and policy recommendations, so you only pay for what you need. limu, you're an animal! who's got the bird legs now? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ age-related macular degeneration may lead to severe vision loss, so the national eye institute did 20 years of clinical studies on a formula found in preservision. if it were my vision, i'd ask my doctor about preservision. it's the most studied eye vitamin brand. if it were my vision, i'd look into preservision preservision areds 2 contains the exact nutrient formula recommended by the nei to help reduce the risk of moderate to advanced amd progression. i have amd, it is my vision, so my plan includes preservision. monday will be a very big day for the democrats. it will show you whether or not they understand what the true risk to their power is, which is not whether or not they get those two bills together or separate but about whether or not they can provide a united front that shows the people who voted for them that they can get things done when in power. monday will be a very big day. that's it for us tonight. "don lemon tonight" with its big star, starting right now. >> at the scene cruz, is he the biggest self-owner ever? that didn't go well for him. >> nope. but you know what, though? here's the deal, brother. he ain't looking to win the legal fight, even though it has the guise of legality. he even said to somebody else there forget about what the intent of the law is, what was the effect? you never forget about the intent of a law when analyzing whether it's discriminatory in nature. >> exactly. >> he knows these things. what bothers me about these guys, i'm never going to call him stupid, he's not stupid. that's the game of the -- >> not that line of questioning was stupid, doesn't mean that he is a stupid person. >> right, he's doing it. it's gratuitous. what he is playing on is the obvious -- the optic of it. what's wrong with showing an i.d., everybody has an i.d. what's wrong with that? >> he should know, he showed one to go to cancun, but go on. >> that's right. >> to get on that plane. >> wha

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