from the outside and you say it's all inside, his supporters are saying, these people in the political establishment have been screwing us over for decades. political establishment have been screwing us overfor decades. and this is the one guy who is going after the media, the one guy establishment can't stand, the one guy that even people like mitt romney and the republican party go against, he is part of the deep state and if truly, you have a large part of the american electorate that is mobilised and motivated by the absence of grievance that is utterly court to donald trump's campaign, it should not suppression at all that is approval ratings are only going north among the gop base since all his indictments are being levied against them. these levees are proof of the power of the deep state to take out donald trump who they love. the question of course is always what happens to the independence the middle and which way they go in a general election, not in the primary. lots of people want to see donald trump in court today. probably those who were in the front line of defences onjanuary six. i'm being told that there are three capitol police officers who are in the court today to watch those proceedings. of course some of those capital police officers feel particularly grieved and they hold donald trump responsible for summoning them up on that day. you talk about grievance, it's important, it's notjust grievance directed at the way they perceive donald trump is being treated, it's also about the sense of grievance they feel when they go to the supermarket and they see how much their petrol is causing or how diesel is costing or their mortgage. it's about the economy, stupid. look at the polling today about how they feel about the us economy at the moment. 25% say the economy is in good shape. 75% say it is in poor shape, 51% still think the us is in a downturn. former president obama has warned joe biden not to undermine trump on the basis of the polling. but he looks at those figures, he is right, isn't he? the olls are figures, he is right, isn't he? tue: polls are problematic figures, he is right, isn't he? tte: polls are problematic and they are problematic on the economy. i know that janet yellin and jerome powell are now saying they are not expecting a recession, the us might just be able to avoid it. but the markets right now need to be priced at perfection in the united states was up all of the good news is price to an end none of the bad news seems to an end none of the bad news seems to be. we see that china is having a much harder time bouncing back after covid. that is a big driver of the global economy, that will affect us trade patterns. we see that there are big dangers from the fight with russia that is going on right now, we see massive indebtedness that's getting harder to service in terms of their interest on the parts of the poorer countries around the world. some of which may well collapse in the next 12 or 18 months. i do think that given where the consensus of the economists in the stock because are right now there is probably a little bit more downside to the us economy in the next 12 months spent upside. but evenif next 12 months spent upside. but even if the biden advisers are right and the united states can avoid a downturn and it feels fairly robust, so much of the feeling of the economy has to do with your political affiliation. it's like the way you think about the indictments, you break those numbers down and ask how democrats feel about the economy compared to republicans, you would think it was... that is notjust because the republicans are all poor under educated white rural men that are doing badly, some are middle—class, some are upper middle class but they are constantly digesting a stream of infective that everything biden does is a disaster for themselves and their future and they believe it. tn for themselves and their future and they believe it.— they believe it. in the new york times percentage _ they believe it. in the new york times percentage pole - they believe it. in the new york times percentage pole donald i they believe it. in the new york - times percentage pole donald trump wins against his colleagues across every state and at every other demographic. there is a sense of grievance in the front row of the courtroom in washington, dc this afternoon. i'm told that donald trump is sitting stonefaced with his arms crossed, not looking impressed at what is going on. you wouldn't expect anything else. i want to talk to you about a couple of things. donald trump at dinner on tuesday night with the fox news president and a chief executive who were trying to encourage him to appear at the first debate in milwaukee in a few weeks' time. do you think he's going to attend, does he need to attend? ., ., �* ~' going to attend, does he need to attend? ., ., �* ~ ., , attend? know. i don't think he does attend. i think— attend? know. i don't think he does attend. i think the _ attend? know. i don't think he does attend. i think the first _ attend? know. i don't think he does attend. i think the first one - attend? know. i don't think he does attend. i think the first one is - attend? know. i don't think he does attend. i think the first one is he - attend. i think the first one is he can take — attend. i think the first one is he can take the rest, he's known to be a risk_ can take the rest, he's known to be a risk taken — can take the rest, he's known to be a risk taker. in his mind he sees this big — a risk taker. in his mind he sees this big league of the wise got a get on _ this big league of the wise got a get on stage with the likes of chris christie _ get on stage with the likes of chris christie and others were just can have _ christie and others were just can have nothing but supreme criticism? he knows_ have nothing but supreme criticism? he knows himself that he can't stand there _ he knows himself that he can't stand there and _ he knows himself that he can't stand there and check that heat. he will respond _ there and check that heat. he will respond very negatively or his base may think— respond very negatively or his base may think positively. in his mind why give — may think positively. in his mind why give the other guys oxygen? let me say— why give the other guys oxygen? let me say away and see if i can survive. _ me say away and see if i can survive, let see how her polls look at her _ survive, let see how her polls look at her after — survive, let see how her polls look at her after that for them at the polls— at her after that for them at the polls reflect not much of a change i would he _ polls reflect not much of a change i would be surprised if it becomes a broader— would be surprised if it becomes a broader strategy the debates about 37 point— broader strategy the debates about 37 point lead he has over the other candidates — 37 point lead he has over the other candidates running. he 37 point lead he has over the other candidates running.— candidates running. he looks like the martyr— candidates running. he looks like the martyr today _ candidates running. he looks like the martyr today in _ candidates running. he looks like the martyr today in the _ candidates running. he looks like the martyr today in the eyes - candidates running. he looks like the martyr today in the eyes of l candidates running. he looks like i the martyr today in the eyes of the republican voters. is he now the confirmed candidate in your mind because of what is happening today in washington, dc? yes. because of what is happening today in washington, dc?— in washington, dc? yes. i think an bod in washington, dc? yes. i think anybody can _ in washington, dc? yes. i think anybody can make _ in washington, dc? yes. i think anybody can make that - in washington, dc? yes. i think anybody can make that case. i in washington, dc? yes. i think. anybody can make that case. ever since _ anybody can make that case. ever since this— anybody can make that case. ever since this first indictment he's gone — since this first indictment he's gone up — since this first indictment he's gone up nearly ten to 12 points. hes— gone up nearly ten to 12 points. he's consolidated the republican party, _ he's consolidated the republican party, there is nobody willing to directly — party, there is nobody willing to directly take him on that has any significant impact. chris christie, the noble — significant impact. chris christie, the noble effort he's trying make is a guy— the noble effort he's trying make is a guy who — the noble effort he's trying make is a guy whojust the noble effort he's trying make is a guy who just doesn't the noble effort he's trying make is a guy whojust doesn't have the same political— a guy whojust doesn't have the same political wit that he had eight years— political wit that he had eight years ago. i think donald trump is the presumptive nominee. i don't see anything _ the presumptive nominee. i don't see anything moving at this moment specifically with the iowa caucuses. in specifically with the iowa caucuses. in new— specifically with the iowa caucuses. in new hampshire in early february. also keep _ in new hampshire in early february. also keep in — in new hampshire in early february. also keep in mind you now have the polls you _ also keep in mind you now have the polls you talked about joe biden a 41% but _ polls you talked about joe biden a 41% but i — polls you talked about joe biden a 41% but i think it interesting pole had resident trump and joe biden tied at— had resident trump and joe biden tied at 43. — had resident trump and joe biden tied at 43, which asked ian who is a political— tied at 43, which asked ian who is a political scientist, biden and trump tied at— political scientist, biden and trump tied at 43— political scientist, biden and trump tied at 43 probably means president trump _ tied at 43 probably means president trump wins the electoral college today~ _ trump wins the electoral college today. that's absolutely crazy to think _ today. that's absolutely crazy to think about thinking of all the indictments that have come forward, all the _ indictments that have come forward, all the negative news coverage for the past _ all the negative news coverage for the past year and a half. i all the negative news coverage for the past year and a half.— all the negative news coverage for the past year and a half. i know you were on the — the past year and a half. i know you were on the transition _ the past year and a half. i know you were on the transition committee . the past year and a half. i know you l were on the transition committee and you are very expensive photo i've been burning to ask you this question over recent days. try and step outside of the trump world for me for one second and imagine that you are running the campaign tape for ron to see if this new strategy seems to play for time, talk —— rhonda santos. talk about deep state and then as he expects trump blows up and then as he expects trump blows up and ron desantis inherits the base. it is not the right strategy six months out when he is 37 points behind? ., ~' six months out when he is 37 points behind? ., ,, ., ., behind? know. i think him having to reset, he needs _ behind? know. i think him having to reset, he needs a _ behind? know. i think him having to reset, he needs a core _ behind? know. i think him having to reset, he needs a core of _ behind? know. i think him having to reset, he needs a core of why - behind? know. i think him having to reset, he needs a core of why he - reset, he needs a core of why he exist in— reset, he needs a core of why he exist in this _ reset, he needs a core of why he exist in this presidential race and the reason — exist in this presidential race and the reason why voters looked at him early on _ the reason why voters looked at him early on as— the reason why voters looked at him early on as they saw him as an alternative _ early on as they saw him as an alternative to president trump. instead — alternative to president trump. instead he see guy who's waiting in the wings— instead he see guy who's waiting in the wings hoping that trump collapses. if i'm wrong desantis i am probably the only one in the republican primaries that can do what _ republican primaries that can do what chris— republican primaries that can do what chris christie is trying to do and he _ what chris christie is trying to do and be effective. i think he scared to do— and be effective. i think he scared to do it _ and be effective. i think he scared to do it the — and be effective. i think he scared to do it. the reality is as the republican base is more unified behind donald trump and it's been in 20162015— behind donald trump and it's been in 20162015 at this particular point. or even— 20162015 at this particular point. or even in— 20162015 at this particular point. or even in 2020 election. it's hard for ron— or even in 2020 election. it's hard for ron desantis to find his footing because _ for ron desantis to find his footing because the only way for him to dislodge the winner is by beating the winner. he thinks time is on his side that— the winner. he thinks time is on his side that these prosecutions will ultimately be conflicted convention where _ ultimately be conflicted convention where he _ ultimately be conflicted convention where he can come in and swoop. the fact is— where he can come in and swoop. the fact is try— where he can come in and swoop. the fact is by convention it's going to be too late. fact is by convention it's going to be too late-— be too late. before i ask richard about the venue _ be too late. before i ask richard about the venue for _ be too late. before i ask richard about the venue for the - be too late. before i ask richard about the venue for the one - be too late. before i ask richard | about the venue for the one final thing, there may be ten, depends on the polling and what they're bringing them but they might be ten people on stage. if they all decide that donald trump cannot stand that he won't win at the election and as a group they are out there making a case, a republican case that the election wasn't stolen, that he was involved in a conspiracy theory, does not become damaging to donald trump? t does not become damaging to donald trum - ? ~ does not become damaging to donald trum - ? ,, ., , does not become damaging to donald trum? ,, ., , , trump? i think donald trump being the master marketer _ trump? i think donald trump being the master marketer that _ trump? i think donald trump being the master marketer that he - trump? i think donald trump being the master marketer that he is - trump? i think donald trump being the master marketer that he is he l the master marketer that he is he uses _ the master marketer that he is he uses that— the master marketer that he is he uses that opportunity to create himself— uses that opportunity to create himself as he turned her to the establishment at least that's what i would advise them to do. that actually — would advise them to do. that actually portrays him as an outsider _ actually portrays him as an outsider. that's a very powerful message — outsider. that's a very powerful message when everybody is frustrated at washington, dc. i don't think it will happen— at washington, dc. i don't think it will happen because a lot of trump supporters— will happen because a lot of trump supporters actually running for president and reinforcing his narrative _ president and reinforcing his narrative and set of facts. if that happens — narrative and set of facts. if that happens i — narrative and set of facts. if that happens i think it becomes more of an outsider. — happens i think it becomes more of an outsider, tim against washington which _ an outsider, tim against washington which is _ an outsider, tim against washington which is what him and his base walk. we are _ which is what him and his base walk. we are looking at the front doors of the district court in the district of columbia. one of the decisions that thejudge has of columbia. one of the decisions that the judge has to make first off is whether the trial is penciled in for that court house or whether it is moved. what are the arguments that donald trump and his allies have been making is that washington is in inherently unfair place to have a trial. trump points to the polling in 2020, 90 2% of them voted forjoe biden. how much sympathy will a federaljudge help with that argument? will a federal 'udge help with that an ument? ' , will a federal 'udge help with that aruument? ' , . , will a federal 'udge help with that aruument? ' , ., , ,, will a federal 'udge help with that aruument? ' , ., , ., ., argument? 9296. ordinarily you go to argument? 9296. ordinarily you go to a jurisdiction — argument? 9296. ordinarily you go to a jurisdiction you _ argument? 9296. ordinarily you go to a jurisdiction you commit _ argument? 9296. ordinarily you go to a jurisdiction you commit a _ argument? 9296. ordinarily you go to a jurisdiction you commit a crime - a jurisdiction you commit a crime and a your instruction and that's where you're going to be tried. if i'm speeding my car in chicago i'm not going to have a trial in downstate illinois. if you go to washington, dc to assume the presidency or any other office and you're inside the district of columbia and you engage in federal crimes you are going to be tried in the district of columbia. that is the district of columbia. that is the way it works for almost every defendant. so to argue well, there are more democrats and republicans in washington, dc and therefore i might�*ve attained a jury, i don't think that's going to go very far. on the other hand i believe that the lawyers should very aggressively push the jurors and the judge to facilitate this process to make sure the jurors are not sitting on this trial who regulate politics into the jury trial who regulate politics into the jury room. i believe the vast majority of jurors jury room. i believe the vast majority ofjurors understand the duty to separate political views from evaluating the question of whether the prosecution has proven a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. there does need to be care taken in the review of the jurors about their process to make sure that that is indeed the case. i would be surprised if the judge agrees to move the trial to a place of the defendants own choosing. no other defendants own choosing. no other defendant in the united states has that right. defendant in the united states has that riuht. �* . defendant in the united states has that riuht. �*, ., ~ defendant in the united states has that riuht. �*, ., ,, ., that right. let's talk about the eo - le that right. let's talk about the people not _ that right. let's talk about the people not in _ that right. let's talk about the people not in the _ that right. let's talk about the people not in the dock. - that right. let's talk about the | people not in the dock. there's that right. let's talk about the - people not in the dock. there's only one of the dock today and that is donald trump. there are six co—conspirators not named in the indictment. from the quotes we've already read we know with some certainty who these people are and how they are connected to donald trump. there is rudy giuliani, of course mr trump's lawyer for that we talked aboutjohn eastman, talked about john eastman, constitutional scholar, talked aboutjohn eastman, constitutional scholar, city powell conservative lawyer. jeffrey clark who was a justice department lawyer, ken chesebro another lawyer. the sixth has not been named, not suggested so far. there is reported in the political adviser. do you know boris?— in the political adviser. do you know boris? , , , ., ., know boris? yes. boris is an idiot. yes, i know _ know boris? yes. boris is an idiot. yes, i know boris _ know boris? yes. boris is an idiot. yes, i know boris very _ know boris? yes. boris is an idiot. yes, i know boris very well. - know boris? yes. boris is an idiot. j yes, i know boris very well. right, well ok. yes, i know boris very well. right, well 0k- that _ yes, i know boris very well. right, well ok. that might _ yes, i know boris very well. right, well ok. that might tally - yes, i know boris very well. right, well ok. that might tally with - yes, i know boris very well. right, | well ok. that might tally with what vice president pentz said was a that's really —— president pentz. there's also counsel with her white house and people were brought in at a much later date. because they in some way saw the election the way that donald trump saw it and they believed in the conspiracy that had been stolen. is that a defence? can you rely on what you describe as expert witness if the majority of people, people like brian think that they are not indeed experts? first. they are not indeed experts? first, none of them _ they are not indeed experts? first, none of them are _ they are not indeed experts? first, none of them are white _ they are not indeed experts? first, none of them are white house - none of them are white house lawyers. none of them arejustice department lawyers. these are all outside people brought in because donald trump had consulted the white house lawyers who were the most partisan lawyers he could find to work in the white house and in the justice department also, very strong trump supporters. and none of them would buy into these crazy theories. so he went and found these other lawyers who would come up with the theories. john eastman, yes he is a law professor and calls himself a scholar but as i said, you can find professors on the far left of the far right who will sayjust professors on the far left of the far right who will say just about anything, any crazy theory. i've been teaching for 30 years and i've seen all sorts of crazy theories from academics. that doesn't mean that the president of the united states acts on this crazy theory thatjohn eastman had that somehow the president can tell the vice president to declare the loser the winner when they are counting electoral votes. winner when they are counting electoralvotes. it winner when they are counting electoral votes. it simply makes absolutely no sense. you would have absolutely no sense. you would have a representative democracy, you may as well not even have an election if the vice president of the united states can go onjanuary six and say actually, i win the vice presidency and the president because i have the power to do that. that makes absolutely no sense. john eastman can go on and on with his crazy theory but it was unreasonable donald trump should have known it was unreasonable, he probably did know it was unreasonable. for him to engage in this conduct of pressuring the vice president in this way and pressuring the justice the vice president in this way and pressuring thejustice department, conceiving a plan to send in the military it went on and on for a period of two months from november to january, this is why he's in the defendants docket today.- to january, this is why he's in the defendants docket today. some detail from inside the _ defendants docket today. some detail from inside the court. _ defendants docket today. some detail from inside the court. if _ defendants docket today. some detail from inside the court. if you _ defendants docket today. some detail from inside the court. if you are - from inside the court. if you are justjoining us no cameras in court today but we do have a bbc correspondent inside the court who is relaying some of the events that are happening. we are told that donald trump was shaking his head as the magistrate who has just taken a seatin the magistrate who has just taken a seat in the court read out the indictment. he's been consulting, in fact quite considerable detail he is beenin fact quite considerable detail he is been in detail with his lawyers he sat between two of his lawyers and probably getting to know what the indictment is, trying to understand how the proceedings will unfold today. where told the magistrate is now going through the indictment, a 45 page indictment and at some point we expect donald trump will be asked to enter a plea. we expect donald trump will be asked to entera plea. on we expect donald trump will be asked to enter a plea. on this programme i'm always reminding viewers around the world just how important money is to campaigning in the united states, unlike many other countries, cash is king. what about donald trumps legal costs? he's already spent $40 million, not even gone into court with any of the cases, they've not been heard, he's already spent $40 million for that reportedly he pulling in 60 million that he allocated for a tv spent with another pack. does he have enough money? why is he using that money when we are told he's a billionaire? he money when we are told he's a billionaire?— money when we are told he's a billionaire? , ., ., , billionaire? he using that money because he _ billionaire? he using that money because he doesn't _ billionaire? he using that money because he doesn't want - billionaire? he using that money because he doesn't want to - billionaire? he using that money because he doesn't want to use | billionaire? he using that money i because he doesn't want to use his own money irrespective of how much he actually has that's always been true for donald trump, he believes in leverage, he believes in using other peoples money. he's very effective at that. we've already heard and we all believe here that it's very likely that donald trump will be there republican nominee irrespective of all of these challenges. irrespective of the level of emotional distraction, intellectual distraction, not that he has to pay for the legal proceedings he's also not campaigning while he's dealing with all of these cases for any other candidate that would be an x essential threat. candidate that would be an x essentialthreat. for candidate that would be an x essential threat. for trump it is an advantage. we can't be making an argument that all the rules apply equally to trump for that we found historically that's not been the case. i do think what we need to recognise is that if trump gets the nomination as we all would bet that he will, then the entire republican party with a couple of exceptions, very few will be behind him. he'll have a vp, probably one of the people running against him. that's why he said he didn't not to show up at the debate. it was vintage shop. he's like well it will be fun to watch the debate to see who i may choose as a vice president. a course is what the debate is about, it's about who will be number two. he will have a wealth available to him as the republican nominee because suddenly everybody wants... the republicans don't want biden to win. i don't think the monetary issue is going to be a fundamental constraint. there are others and as you mentioned before, where the independents decide to go, do they show up is enough for them for that we know the republicans are all with trump. there is damage being done to trumps standing among those who don't really like biden, not really aligned with them but they think this guy mightjust be a crazy lunatic that could destroy american democracy. i think they are the indictments actually do play. some details from _ indictments actually do play. some details from the _ indictments actually do play. some details from the court, _ indictments actually do play. some details from the court, trump - indictments actually do play. some details from the court, trump has been sworn in, she is giving instructions to donald trump in telling him the procedure. she will in turn read out the charges and the possible penalties followed by his right. she's been reminding people not to take pictures or any recordings in the court. we are told applies with equal force to those watching in the overflow rooms outside the courtroom where this is taking place. donald trump and sat there with his arms folded, he's looking directly at the judge as she speaks but no visible reaction thus far. she is going through the indictment right now. his tone fairly calm in court, measure, he seems a bit disinterested in what is happening. eyewitnesses in the courtrooms say he's been speaking softly to his lawyers. we don't have cameras on the gives you a little bit of detail about what is going on. ianjust said bit of detail about what is going on. ian just said that republicans are all with trump and yes they will endorse him i put on screen last night the talking points that the trump campaign has already issued to congressionalfigures trump campaign has already issued to congressional figures on the hill. they will scramble again to explain why the former president finds himself in such a calamitous position. why did they do that? it is a mystery to many of us outside the country when there is a field a very good candidates on the right but they choose donald trump? thea;r but they choose donald trump? they like his personality. they like the fact it's _ like his personality. they like the fact it's the messaging that steve bennett— fact it's the messaging that steve bennett would say promises made and promises _ bennett would say promises made and promises -- _ bennett would say promises made and promises. —— steve bannon that's different— promises. —— steve bannon that's different for— promises. —— steve bannon that's different for primary voters. for the last— different for primary voters. for the last 20 _ different for primary voters. for the last 20 years republican politicians made promises that never kept them _ politicians made promises that never kept them present and president trump _ kept them present and president trump comes as a disruptive force and he _ trump comes as a disruptive force and he keeps a good amount of his promises — and he keeps a good amount of his promises. they have that type of bonding — promises. they have that type of bonding loyalty to him and they feel that is— bonding loyalty to him and they feel that is part of the winning brand of president — that is part of the winning brand of president trump. but that is part of the winning brand of president trump.— president trump. but it's not a winnin: president trump. but it's not a winning brand. _ president trump. but it's not a winning brand. why _ president trump. but it's not a winning brand. why in - president trump. but it's not a winning brand. why in 2018, i president trump. but it's not a | winning brand. why in 2018, he president trump. but it's not a - winning brand. why in 2018, he lost the white house in 2020, he underperformed in 2022, the senate. he could easily lose in 2020 for, not a winner. t he could easily lose in 2020 for, not a winner-— he could easily lose in 2020 for, not a winner. i think you can point to a 43-43 — not a winner. i think you can point to a 43-43 times _ not a winner. i think you can point to a 43-43 times in _ not a winner. i think you can point to a 43-43 times in a position - not a winner. i think you can point to a 43-43 times in a position to l to a 43—43 times in a position to win _ to a 43-43 times in a position to win. ., ., , �* . win. that doesn't get in the white house. win. that doesn't get in the white house- you _ win. that doesn't get in the white house- you get— win. that doesn't get in the white house. you get pretty _ win. that doesn't get in the white house. you get pretty close - house. you get pretty close considering _ house. you get pretty close considering all— house. you get pretty close considering all the - house. you get pretty close - considering all the circumstances. he has— considering all the circumstances. he has to — considering all the circumstances. he has to make his case in this campaign — he has to make his case in this campaign has to make the case to the 70,000 _ campaign has to make the case to the 70,000 voters that help flip those six states — 70,000 voters that help flip those six states or those four states that needed _ six states or those four states that needed to— six states or those four states that needed to flip. when he is successful or not becomes a challenge. i think ian is right when he says— challenge. i think ian is right when he says they have the voters who dislike _ he says they have the voters who dislike biden and they also dislike trump _ dislike biden and they also dislike trump. joe biden is in that waiting loadings _ trump. joe biden is in that waiting loadings section. if that never starts — loadings section. if that never starts to— loadings section. if that never starts to diminish you are going to see former— starts to diminish you are going to see former president trump take the lead and _ see former president trump take the lead and a _ see former president trump take the lead and a lot of these pace to eight places. he's probably winning the electoral college today. you can say we _ the electoral college today. you can say we lost — the electoral college today. you can say we lost 18, 20, you can say without _ say we lost 18, 20, you can say without all— say we lost 18, 20, you can say without all these losses but if you look at _ without all these losses but if you look at the polling data today he certainly — look at the polling data today he certainly in a position to win and people _ certainly in a position to win and people like to back winners. among those five talking _ people like to back winners. among those five talking points, _ people like to back winners. among those five talking points, it - people like to back winners. among those five talking points, it would . those five talking points, it would seem that the gop strategy going forward will be to strap hunter biden and the president to a similar scandal. it is a significant chance thatis scandal. it is a significant chance that is being discussed at the moment that the house will vote for impeachment, whether they get the votes or not is another thing. the idea is to make it look likejoe biden did the same things as trump. what would it mean if there was in the impeachment ofjoe biden? anyway just to balance the record for what is going on today in washington, dc. at this point there just isn't evidence to justify an impeachment ofjoe biden. nowhere near the evidence we had to impeach bill clinton in 1998, 99 for lying under oath. and even then the american people thought that that impeachment was overreached because bill clinton had lied under oath about six in the white house. and reacted very negatively to that impeachment of bill clinton. an impeachment that is not grounded in fact is a very risky move that's why i don't think the house republicans are going to do that. they are measures short of an appeasement so they can continue the investigation in respect to what happened with whenjoe biden was vice president. there are some genuine concerns about the biden arrangement made with the university of pennsylvania and the ambassador to germany. she could be called for testimony on the chinese money that was raise. there is a low hanging fruit there. there is an every administration potential scandals to be investigated. ranting that it is “p be investigated. ranting that it is up to impeachment ofjoe biden would be a vast overreached by the house republicans. i think it would alienate voters even more. i should emphasise that both political parties have an opportunity to think through whether they really want to run their front runner for thejoe run their front runner for the joe biden run their front runner for thejoe biden going into the convention with a large number of democratic delegates if not all of them. he could decide whether to run or whether to give those delegates to someone else. whether to give those delegates to someone else-— someone else. that's really interesting _ someone else. that's really interesting given _ someone else. that's really interesting given his - someone else. that's really interesting given his age, i someone else. that's really| interesting given his age, of course. a lot of people have made reference to that. one thing i should tell you from the court, the plea, the least surprising news of the night incidentally the plea has just come in. trump's lawyer has just come in. trump's lawyer has just entered a not guilty plea to the indictment that has been read out to the former president and the last few minutes. if you stand back from this in light of what we were just discussing what you can have an impeachment in the house, you can update today hearings in that courtroom that we are looking at there, the former president on trial for conspiracy against the united states, all sorts of allegations flying around about hunter biden. this could be really, really ugly next year. the strategy might work. as brian says it is a very tight election. if you can get the independents to stay away, if you can encourage them that all the people in washington are of the same ilk then it's a plague on all your houses and they stay away from the ballot. that presumably benefits the republicans. you ballot. that presumably benefits the reublicans. ., , republicans. you remember the incident they — republicans. you remember the incident they used _ republicans. you remember the incident they used against - republicans. you remember the incident they used against john | incident they used againstjohn kerry, you take someone who is seen to be of great integrity and use that against him and have enough questions in the eyes of those that are not staunch supporters that they decide to move away and ultimately on his run. biden certainly has some challenges but not least around his son hunter and the way he's handled them. but there is no objective comparison between the integrity of joe biden and that of donald trump. if the republicans are able in the house to convince a fair number of people that aren't really high political information users that maybe biden really is corrupt, is about 10%, maybe biden really is corrupt, is about10%, it maybe biden really is corrupt, is about 10%, it there is some smoke behind all of this for the i saw a recent poll in the last 24 hours, about 36% of americans say they are not sure about how they feel about whether or not the hunter and the biden investigations reflect real crimes that the president has committed. if you can create a level of uncertainty and having an impeachment in the house will help with that. it hurts a lot of other things, not least the state of american democracy supports for that i agree it represents overreached on the part of the republicans but my god, if overreach is the thing that were to stop that we would not be where we are right now. if i had to bet... this is the first issue that i'm taking a little bit of disagreement with richard, i think they are going to go it forward with impeachment because i think that's the best way for them to beat biden. that is truly disturbing but i think it's kind of where we are. let’s that is truly disturbing but i think it's kind of where we are. let's go back to the _ it's kind of where we are. let's go back to the court. _ it's kind of where we are. let's go back to the court. a _ it's kind of where we are. let's go back to the court. a lot _ it's kind of where we are. let's go back to the court. a lot of- it's kind of where we are. let's go back to the court. a lot of news i it's kind of where we are. let's go back to the court. a lot of news in detail in the last few minutes. bring us up to speed with what you know about the way things are unfolding. just in the last few moments, present donald trump is introduced plea and dismissing those criminal charges and is pled not guilty to all four and entering that microphone and he stood up from the table at his and outside of the courtroom, reporters are inside the courthouse and they described this courtroom is very modest and there's a bit of wooden tables and trump is with his legal team and we know the special counsel is in attendance as well and staying at the front row of that court room and we know that this hearing got under way a little bit late and we thought it would begin at the top of the hour but it started 15 minutes into it, we don't know the reason for the delay and into the courtroom for the side entrance and getting more details now saying that donald trump is been sworn into compliance with his release and whether the magistrate judge was saying some silly condition and we have been told he is been told not to communicate the facts of the case and that mr trump must appear for court appearances and those of the only restrictions that we have heard of and he was told to stand up and he placed his hand up and he sat down and then sign some papers regarding those release conditions and that is the latest we're hearing from the courtroom itself in that arraignment is still taking place it is not expected to be a very long process and could take 30 minutes up to an hour or so and could take 30 minutes up to an hourorso and it and could take 30 minutes up to an hour or so and it is still ongoing but donald trump pleading not guilty to all charges being put before him by the magistrate judge to all charges being put before him by the magistratejudge here in washington, dc. by the magistrate 'udge here in washington, dc._ by the magistrate 'udge here in washington, dc. special prosecutor who has been _ washington, dc. special prosecutor who has been here _ washington, dc. special prosecutor who has been here since _ washington, dc. special prosecutor| who has been here since november, washington, dc. special prosecutor- who has been here since november, do we know anything about the timetable going forward with this case may be and if it's something within the magistrate was that something that will have to wait until the judge takes over? be will have to wait until the 'udge takes o_ will have to wait until the 'udge takes over? be expected to be a second hearing _ takes over? be expected to be a second hearing next _ takes over? be expected to be a second hearing next week- takes over? be expected to be a second hearing next week and i takes over? be expected to be a| second hearing next week and i'll takes over? be expected to be a - second hearing next week and i'll be presided over by the judge second hearing next week and i'll be presided over by thejudge in second hearing next week and i'll be presided over by the judge in this

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