at ten o'clock, clive myrie will be here with a full round up of the days news. first, it's newscast. hello, it's adam in the studio. and it's chris in the studio. and it's just the two of us this week because laura isn't here. it's going to be very quiet. it is, it is. yeah, we've got acres of time to talk. so i've been making a panorama in doc land making a panorama for the last few days. you mean documentary land, not docklands? not sort of east london. anyway, word reaches me, even in the depths of making a documentary, that there's been a sprinkling of news about. yeah, monday — leaked e—mail from the 20th of may 2020 from the prime minister's private secretary, inviting about 100 people in downing street to a bring—your—own—booze event in the back garden. tuesday, chaos. wednesday, unprecedented extraordinary apology from a very contrite—looking borisjohnson in parliament. quite amazing. and then chaos. basically, what's happening is everyone is waiting for this civil servant, sue gray, tojust do her report into what actually happened — with all these parties around whitehall back in the various knockdowns. who's waiting for her? conservative mps who don't like borisjohnson and want to do him in, conservative mps who used to support borisjohnson and don't any more and are waiting to see if they're going to have to do him in, the entire cabinet, who have been flooding the airwaves, saying "let's wait for sue gray". and tonight, as we're recording this episode of newscast on tv and on bbc sounds as a podcast, the metropolitan police have said they will not be investigating any claims until sue gray has finished her investigation. so everyone is waiting for sue gray. everyone is carrying around a shield that says sue gray on it — in response to pretty much every question. and, of course, there is the prospect, i guess, that more stuff, notjust from sue gray butjournalistically, is found about stuff which might have happened? also, i think more conservative mps will come out of the woodwork and say this guy can't be prime minister any more when they talk to their constituents over the weekend. talking of talking to people, we are nowjoined by two people who do it for a living, because they host phenomenally successful phone—in shows and they've been talking about this all week. i'm so pleased to welcome them. shelagh, hello! shelagh fogarty from lbc. and we have kaye adams from radio scotland. hello, kaye. hi, there. can ijust say, first of all, if you're wondering what my right hand is doing, i've got the dog beside me. just so you know. brilliant. what's the dog called? bea, and she's very much enjoying getting her tummy tickled. 0k, well, keep that tummy tickled so she doesn't start barking. i think, between the two of you, how many calls have you hard about the downing street party in total this week? we've been talking about it pretty solidly since monday, _ and i left it today for the final hour of my programme. - so we did a different topic. we're talking three, six, seven, | eight hours worth of solid calls. i we're talking hundreds easily. many hundreds coming in on it. shelagh, i was listening to you yesterday, having some fun at the prime minister's expense around it being your birthday coming up and whether you'd turn up to work with beer and invite everybody and all the rest of it, and there is plenty of scope for that kind of mickey taking, but what's been the tenor and the tone of what people have been saying to you as they do the thing that we've all been doing, "what were we doing at that point in may 2020 versus downing street?" the reason i did... it was a bit sarcastic, wasn't it? i i was saying, "it's my birthdayl tomorrow, i'm thinking i'll come to work and i'll invite ten - of my friends and get them to sit next to ten of my colleagues, and we'll all drink and we'll. all eat and will decide later- whether it contravenes covid rose or is a work event or a party. but you're right, the very serious side of it was - majority of calls... there was some sarcasm coming through from callers, _ but the vast majority of calls were eitherangry... - the word the prime minister himself used in his statement was rage, - and there was rage coming through for sure. - but the thing that struck me most and struck other listeners most i was the grief and the pain that was coming through. | we had calls from a woman whose 14—year—old daughter died, - not of covid but died in may. and she could only have one of her parents with her- when she died, the little girl. we had an nhs consultant who called, whose mother had died, _ he stayed on the ward instead of seeing his mother — - and he's a leader, a team leader like borisjohnson is. _ he concluded that if he had sent. an e—mail around to his more junior colleagues in their tens, - hundred colleagues, and said, "let's party on the quad at the end of our shift,"j they would have been sacked. he would have beenl sacked for inciting it. there were calls from people who had lost parents, - they hadn't been able to see, be with them as they died. i a great deal of ongoing grief, actually, is - what came through to me. just to chime in with what shelagh says, we absolutely had those calls as well. and, yes, that story of the mum with the 14—year—old child, i think many people heard it and many people have been touched by that. so many stories of distress. the other thing i thought was interesting, in scotland, there's not many people that go around with "i'm a tory" badges on. obviously there is a conservative vote, but it tends to be quite quiet. so we had the pragmatists — "well, you know, of course we don't condone what he did but he's the best we've gotjust now". and the more idealistic people who said there's got to be principle here. but of the pragmatists, the line that started to come out was — "well, actually, all this demonstrates is that the laws that were in place at that time, may 2020, were overly draconian and were unnecessarily strict. so boris johnson and whoever else was there wasn't putting anybody else at risk because it wasjust too much anyway." and that was being put forward almost as a justification, which i found really difficult to reconcile because, if we are talking to the mother of the 14—year—old girl who wasn't able to say goodbye to her, and our rationale is that these laws were too strict anyway, in some ways that's even worse, you know? shelagh, did you feel a sense change in tone? yes. mainly disbelief. there were one or two| callers who i would put in the same bracket, one chap said, look, | in a sea of disapproval of that statement one guy called - in and said, you know, - the truth is he didn't know or he didn't cause the deaths. the 150,000 deaths that happened weren't caused by that party. - my response is that is irrelevant, it's about the equality between . themselves and what they expected people to do, and the people - in that building. some people told me - that they were moved along from a park bench they were sitting on on their own. _ a woman was told to get out of her front garden, - she was sat at a bistro table, - and she was told she can only do it in her back garden in case her presence in her front- garden attracted other people. she was moved on from around the front_ she was moved on from around the front garden — she was moved on from around the front garden to _ she was moved on from around the front garden to her— she was moved on from around the front garden to her own _ she was moved on from around the front garden to her own back - she was moved on from around the i front garden to her own back garden. all kinds_ front garden to her own back garden. all kinds of— front garden to her own back garden. all kinds of examples _ front garden to her own back garden. all kinds of examples like _ front garden to her own back garden. all kinds of examples like this - all kinds of examples like this where — all kinds of examples like this where heapte _ all kinds of examples like this where people were _ all kinds of examples like this where people were brought. all kinds of examples like this where people were brought to all kinds of examples like this - where people were brought to heel by the authorities. _ where people were brought to heel by the authorities. that _ where people were brought to heel by the authorities. that is— where people were brought to heel by the authorities. that is how— where people were brought to heel by the authorities. that is how you - the authorities. that is how you describe — the authorities. that is how you describe that— the authorities. that is how you describe that kind _ the authorities. that is how you describe that kind of— the authorities. that is how you describe that kind of incident ii describe that kind of incident i think — describe that kind of incident i think and _ describe that kind of incident i think. and when— describe that kind of incident i think. and when you - describe that kind of incident i think. and when you see - describe that kind of incident i i think. and when you see people describe that kind of incident i - think. and when you see people being invited _ think. and when you see people being invited ahead — think. and when you see people being invited ahead of— think. and when you see people being invited ahead of time, _ think. and when you see people being invited ahead of time, that _ think. and when you see people being invited ahead of time, that is - think. and when you see people being invited ahead of time, that is the - invited ahead of time, that is the thing _ invited ahead of time, that is the thing here — invited ahead of time, that is the thing here we _ invited ahead of time, that is the thing here. we can— invited ahead of time, that is the thing here. we can never- invited ahead of time, that is the thing here. we can never forget. thing here. we can never forget there _ thing here. we can never forget there was— thing here. we can never forget there was an _ thing here. we can never forget there was an invitation - thing here. we can never forget there was an invitation ahead i thing here. we can never forgetj there was an invitation ahead of time _ there was an invitation ahead of time to— there was an invitation ahead of time to 100 _ there was an invitation ahead of time to 100 people _ there was an invitation ahead of time to 100 people to _ there was an invitation ahead of time to 100 people to bring - there was an invitation ahead ofi time to 100 people to bring their own bottle _ time to 100 people to bring their own bottle i_ time to 100 people to bring their own bottle. i mean, _ time to 100 people to bring their own bottle. i mean, that - time to 100 people to bring their own bottle. i mean, that is - time to 100 people to bring their own bottle. i mean, that is not i own bottle. i mean, that is not sitting — own bottle. i mean, that is not sitting in— own bottle. i mean, that is not sitting in your— own bottle. i mean, that is not sitting in your front _ own bottle. i mean, that is not sitting in your front garden - own bottle. i mean, that is not - sitting in your front garden instead of your— sitting in your front garden instead of your back— sitting in your front garden instead of your back garden. _ sitting in your front garden instead of your back garden. that - sitting in your front garden instead of your back garden. that is - sitting in your front garden instead of your back garden. that is a - sitting in your front garden instead of your back garden. that is a bit i of your back garden. that is a bit more _ of your back garden. that is a bit more. , , ., ., ~ ., more. the best that we are kind of hoinr for more. the best that we are kind of honing for here. — more. the best that we are kind of hoping for here, or _ more. the best that we are kind of hoping for here, or i _ more. the best that we are kind of hoping for here, or i imagine - more. the best that we are kind of hoping for here, or i imagine borisj hoping for here, or i imagine boris johnson _ hoping for here, or i imagine boris johnson is — hoping for here, or i imagine boris johnson is hoping for, when sue gray manages _ johnson is hoping for, when sue gray manages to— johnson is hoping for, when sue gray manages to deliver her report, is that there — manages to deliver her report, is that there will be wriggle room, that there will be wriggle room, that there will be wriggle room, that there will be technicalities. and i_ that there will be technicalities. and i think a lot of people will be asking, _ and i think a lot of people will be asking, is — and i think a lot of people will be asking, is that what you want from a leader? _ asking, is that what you want from a leader? wiggle room and technicalities? 0r leader? wiggle room and technicalities? or do you want a role model, an exemplar, somebody you can _ role model, an exemplar, somebody you can look— role model, an exemplar, somebody you can look to and say that is the way to— you can look to and say that is the way to do— you can look to and say that is the way to do it — you can look to and say that is the way to do it. rather than that is the way— way to do it. rather than that is the way to— way to do it. rather than that is the way to get away with it. | way to do it. rather than that is the way to get away with it. ijust the way to get away with it. i 'ust wonder, the way to get away with it. i 'ust wonder. as fl the way to get away with it. i 'ust wonder. as a fi the way to get away with it. i 'ust wonder, as a thought i the way to get away with it. i 'ust wonder, as a thought to i the way to get away with it. limit wonder, as a thought to both of you, how much of this is priced in, behaviour that people might expect of borisjohnson, so those that have hated him will continue to do so and those that like him might still find reasons to like him, shelagh? you will be pleased _ reasons to like him, shelagh? you will be pleased to know i asked that question— will be pleased to know i asked that question on my radio show today. his appeal— question on my radio show today. his appeal has— question on my radio show today. his appeal has often been he gets us, he is a sinner~ _ appeal has often been he gets us, he is a sinner~ i— appeal has often been he gets us, he is a sinner. i put it like this, he put makes _ is a sinner. i put it like this, he put makes mistakes, he gets things wrong, _ put makes mistakes, he gets things wrong, he _ put makes mistakes, he gets things wrong, he is a sinner like the rest of us _ wrong, he is a sinner like the rest of us but— wrong, he is a sinner like the rest of us but is— wrong, he is a sinner like the rest of us. but is this a cynic too far? the _ of us. but is this a cynic too far? the answer— of us. but is this a cynic too far? the answer was a very firm yes. kaye, _ the answer was a very firm yes. kaye, do — the answer was a very firm yes. kaye, do you think there is room for people's mines to be changed by what sue finds out, horrors everyone seen enough and decided? so people are not like the politicians.— not like the politicians. certainly, from what i'm — not like the politicians. certainly, from what i'm getting, _ not like the politicians. certainly, from what i'm getting, people . not like the politicians. certainly, i from what i'm getting, people have made _ from what i'm getting, people have made up _ from what i'm getting, people have made up their— from what i'm getting, people have made up their mind. _ from what i'm getting, people have made up their mind. just— from what i'm getting, people have made up their mind. justjump - from what i'm getting, people have made up their mind. justjump in l made up their mind. justjump in there. _ made up their mind. justjump in there. i_ made up their mind. justjump in there. ithink— made up their mind. justjump in there, i think we _ made up their mind. justjump in there, ithink we have— made up their mind. justjump in there, i think we have to - there, i think we have to acknowledge _ there, i think we have to acknowledge a _ there, i think we have to acknowledge a real- there, i think we have to - acknowledge a real difference between _ acknowledge a real difference between scotland _ acknowledge a real difference between scotland and - acknowledge a real difference i between scotland and england, because — between scotland and england, because it's _ between scotland and england, because it's a _ between scotland and england, because it's a generalisation i between scotland and england, i because it's a generalisation but there _ because it's a generalisation but there is— because it's a generalisation but there is not— because it's a generalisation but there is not a _ because it's a generalisation but there is not a lot _ because it's a generalisation but there is not a lot of— because it's a generalisation but there is not a lot of love - because it's a generalisation but there is not a lot of love for- because it's a generalisation butl there is not a lot of love for boris johnson — there is not a lot of love for boris johnson in — there is not a lot of love for boris johnson in scotland. _ there is not a lot of love for boris johnson in scotland. even- there is not a lot of love for boris johnson in scotland. even among conservative _ johnson in scotland. even among conservative voters. _ johnson in scotland. even among conservative voters. i— johnson in scotland. even among conservative voters. i stand - johnson in scotland. even among conservative voters. i stand to i johnson in scotland. even among| conservative voters. i stand to be contradicted _ conservative voters. i stand to be contradicted on _ conservative voters. i stand to be contradicted on that. _ conservative voters. i stand to be contradicted on that.— contradicted on that. even conservative _ contradicted on that. even conservative leaders. - contradicted on that. even j conservative leaders. yes, contradicted on that. even - conservative leaders. yes, even conservative — conservative leaders. yes, even conservative leaders. _ conservative leaders. yes, evenl conservative leaders. absolutely. and jacoh — conservative leaders. absolutely. and jacob rees—mogg's - conservative leaders. absolutely. i and jacob rees—mogg's comments conservative leaders. absolutely. - and jacob rees—mogg's comments about dougias— and jacob rees—mogg's comments about douglas ross— and jacob rees—mogg's comments about douglas ross being — and jacob rees—mogg's comments about douglas ross being a _ and jacob rees—mogg's comments about douglas ross being a lightweight, - douglas ross being a lightweight, etc. regardless— douglas ross being a lightweight, etc. regardless of— douglas ross being a lightweight, etc. regardless of whether - douglas ross being a lightweight, etc. regardless of whether you i douglas ross being a lightweight, l etc. regardless of whether you are douglas ross being a lightweight, i etc. regardless of whether you are a conservative — etc. regardless of whether you are a conservative voter— etc. regardless of whether you are a conservative voter or _ etc. regardless of whether you are a conservative voter or not, _ etc. regardless of whether you are a conservative voter or not, it - etc. regardless of whether you are a conservative voter or not, it can - etc. regardless of whether you are a conservative voter or not, it can be i conservative voter or not, it can be seen _ conservative voter or not, it can be seen as— conservative voter or not, it can be seen as a _ conservative voter or not, it can be seen as a very— conservative voter or not, it can be seen as a very high—handed - conservative voter or not, it can be seen as a very high—handed tory . conservative voter or not, it can be i seen as a very high—handed tory toff 'ust seen as a very high—handed tory toff just dealing — seen as a very high—handed tory toff just dealing with _ seen as a very high—handed tory toff just dealing with the _ seen as a very high—handed tory toff just dealing with the scots _ seen as a very high—handed tory toff just dealing with the scots with - just dealing with the scots with that sort— just dealing with the scots with that sort of— just dealing with the scots with that sort of back _ just dealing with the scots with that sort of back of _ just dealing with the scots with that sort of back of the - just dealing with the scots with that sort of back of the hand, i just dealing with the scots with - that sort of back of the hand, which doesn't _ that sort of back of the hand, which doesn't go — that sort of back of the hand, which doesn't go down _ that sort of back of the hand, which doesn't go down well _ that sort of back of the hand, which doesn't go down well in _ that sort of back of the hand, which doesn't go down well in that - doesn't go down well in that regardless _ doesn't go down well in that regardless of— doesn't go down well in that regardless of your— doesn't go down well in that regardless of your political. regardless of your political persuasion _ regardless of your political persuasion. so— regardless of your political persuasion. so there - regardless of your political persuasion. so there are l regardless of your political persuasion. so there are aj regardless of your political. persuasion. so there are a lot regardless of your political- persuasion. so there are a lot of people _ persuasion. so there are a lot of people that _ persuasion. so there are a lot of people that think— persuasion. so there are a lot of people that think boris - persuasion. so there are a lot of people that think boris johnsonl persuasion. so there are a lot ofi people that think boris johnson is the greatest _ people that think boris johnson is the greatest asset _ people that think boris johnson is the greatest asset for— people that think boris johnson is the greatest asset for the - people that think boris johnson is the greatest asset for the yes - the greatest asset for the yes movement, _ the greatest asset for the yes movement, and— the greatest asset for the yes movement, and the - the greatest asset for the yes movement, and the longer. the greatest asset for the yes l movement, and the longer that the greatest asset for the yes - movement, and the longer that he stays— movement, and the longer that he stays in_ movement, and the longer that he stays in downing _ movement, and the longer that he stays in downing street, _ movement, and the longer that he stays in downing street, the - movement, and the longer that hel stays in downing street, the longer he will_ stays in downing street, the longer he will play — stays in downing street, the longer he will play that _ stays in downing street, the longer he will play that role. _ stays in downing street, the longer he will play that role.— he will play that role. shelagh and ka e, he will play that role. shelagh and kaye. thank _ he will play that role. shelagh and kaye. thank you — he will play that role. shelagh and kaye, thank you for _ he will play that role. shelagh and kaye, thank you for plugging - he will play that role. shelagh and kaye, thank you for plugging us i he will play that role. shelagh and i kaye, thank you for plugging us into what all your colours have been saying. chris, it is one of the classic tactics when the government is under threat, you just sent the cabinet and loyalists every where you can. and that is happening so much today. we have even got a cabinet minister on a newscast, that is how serious things have got. the cabinet minister of the education secretary, nadhim zahawi. i have been watching the news all day, i have been calling it the cabinet fightback. you have all been instructed to hit the airwaves and go on any gram you can find and defend the prime minister. is that how these things work? figs defend the prime minister. is that how these things work?— defend the prime minister. is that how these things work? as i'm sure ou how these things work? as i'm sure you know. — how these things work? as i'm sure you know. chris— how these things work? as i'm sure you know, chris knows, _ how these things work? as i'm sure you know, chris knows, i— how these things work? as i'm sure you know, chris knows, i regularly. you know, chris knows, i regularly do the immediate rounds, as many of my cabinet colleagues do as well. i have been doing them since the prime minister made me the vaccines minister on a very regular basis, and on all of the big calls, credit does go to the prime minister, on vaccines, therapeutics, 0micron before christmas, he has called it right. i have been very proud to go out and share that decision—making process. i out and share that decision-making rocess. ., , ., .., out and share that decision-making rocess. ., , ., .. ., out and share that decision-making rocess. ., , ., ., ., process. i get that you can go out and ou process. i get that you can go out and you can — process. i get that you can go out and you can proudly _ process. i get that you can go out and you can proudly make - process. i get that you can go out and you can proudly make that i and you can proudly make that argument _ and you can proudly make that argument about the other things that you can _ argument about the other things that you can point to that you say the government has achieved, but on this stuff that— government has achieved, but on this stuff that we have learnt about in the last _ stuff that we have learnt about in the last 24, 48 hours, before christmas, how do you actually defend — christmas, how do you actually defend that? because that isjust deeply— defend that? because that isjust deeply awkward, isn't it? | defend that? because that is 'ust deeply awkward, isn't not deeply awkward, isn't it? ithink the important — deeply awkward, isn't it? ithink the important thing _ deeply awkward, isn't it? ithink the important thing to _ deeply awkward, isn't it? i think| the important thing to remember deeply awkward, isn't it? i think. the important thing to remember is actually the prime minister came to parliament and talked about what happened, the events of may 20, 2020. we await the detail, and the detail will come through the investigation that sue gray is carrying out. i think it is only right that we wait for her investigation. he has also pledged, and i was there when he was at the dispatch box, that he will return to parliament to be scrutinised, deliver a statement to parliament, after sue gray's investigation is completed. after sue gray's investigation is completed-— after sue gray's investigation is comleted. ., ., completed. you are defending him in the round end _ completed. you are defending him in the round end you _ completed. you are defending him in the round end you are _ completed. you are defending him in the round end you are waiting - completed. you are defending him in the round end you are waiting for - the round end you are waiting for this report — the round end you are waiting for this report from sue gray, but i 'ust this report from sue gray, but i just wonder what from you is the bottom _ just wonder what from you is the bottom line in terms of acceptable behaviour— bottom line in terms of acceptable behaviour and conduct for a prime minister— behaviour and conduct for a prime minister in — behaviour and conduct for a prime minister in the context of a pandemic where so many people were studiously— pandemic where so many people were studiously sticking to the rules, which _ studiously sticking to the rules, which on — studiously sticking to the rules, which on the face of it, it looks like was — which on the face of it, it looks like was not happening in downing street? _ like was not happening in downing street? ~ ~ , street? well, i think acceptable behaviour. _ street? well, i think acceptable behaviour, for _ street? well, i think acceptable behaviour, for me, _ street? well, i think acceptable behaviour, for me, is _ street? well, i think acceptable behaviour, for me, is one - behaviour, for me, is one recognising people's pain, anguish. i lost an uncle to covid. we weren't quite sure if he was infected in hospital. he was eligible for vaccine but sadly he had not gone for his appointment in time before he caught the infection, and we lost him to covid. so it is not lost on my family, that pain, that anguish, how hard, the hardship around following the rules. so, for me, the prime minister recognising that and apologising for it unreservedly was important. 0n the big, big decisions, i think it is only right to recognise that the prime minister but there is right. but at the same time, also recognise that people are human and they make mistakes. and when you do make a mistake, it is right. my bottom line is you have to apologise and you have to have an investigation and get to the bottom of it. ., . ~' , investigation and get to the bottom of it. ., ., ,, , , of it. you talked very candidly about how — of it. you talked very candidly about how covid _ of it. you talked very candidly about how covid affected - of it. you talked very candidly j about how covid affected your family — about how covid affected your family. so many other watts apps at the moment are so full, what has happened — the moment are so full, what has happened and what has emerged out of downing _ happened and what has emerged out of downing street in the last 24—hour is. i downing street in the last 24—hour is~ iwonder— downing street in the last 24—hour is. i wonder what your phone looks like, _ is. i wonder what your phone looks like. what — is. i wonder what your phone looks like, what people beyond you in the front line _ like, what people beyond you in the front line of government are saying to you _ front line of government are saying to you about what has happened. are they sharing the anger, particularly considering what personally has happened within your family? absolutely, people are angry, dismayed. d0 absolutely, people are angry, dismayed-— absolutely, people are angry, disma ed. , , , . , absolutely, people are angry, disma ed. , , , ., dismayed. do they buy what they are heafina dismayed. do they buy what they are hearing from — dismayed. do they buy what they are hearing from the _ dismayed. do they buy what they are hearing from the prime _ dismayed. do they buy what they are hearing from the prime minister? - dismayed. do they buy what they are hearing from the prime minister? i i hearing from the prime minister? i think hearing from the prime minister? think it's hearing from the prime minister? i think it's interesting you ask that question. i watched a vox pop from his constituency... i question. i watched a vox pop from his constituency. . ._ his constituency... i wonder what ou are his constituency... i wonder what you are hearing _ his constituency... i wonder what you are hearing yourself. - his constituency... i wonder what you are hearing yourself. some i you are hearing yourself. some --eole you are hearing yourself. some people say. _ you are hearing yourself. some people say. likely _ you are hearing yourself. some people say, likely vox - you are hearing yourself. some people say, likely vox pop - you are hearing yourself. some| people say, likely vox pop date, they are divided. some people say they are divided. some people say they want to see this investigation, and it is only right because it is the very thing to do. others say this is just not good the very thing to do. others say this isjust not good enough. and others say, as they said in that vox p0p, others say, as they said in that vox pop, but on the big decisions he has got it right and they appreciate that and this is a human error. just before we go _ that and this is a human error. just before we go and that you get back to work, it is been interested looking at all of the cabinet tweets, some slightly differently worded. asjournalists, we are going to try to spot the gaps. this trust is that she stands behind country 100%. do you stand behind borisjohnson100%? country 100%. do you stand behind boris johnson 100%?_ country 10096. do you stand behind boris johnson 10096?— country 10096. do you stand behind boris johnson 10096? yes, i do. there are closely working _ boris johnson 10096? yes, i do. there are closely working with _ boris johnson 10096? yes, i do. there are closely working with him - boris johnson 10096? yes, i do. there are closely working with him because | are closely working with him because i was the vaccine deployment minister, and then of course is the education secretary, opening schools, colleges and universities over the past week and a half. 0n the big calls, this prime minister has actually got the decision is right, including on 0micron before christmas. right, including on omicron before christmas. ~ ,, , christmas. with the sue gray report ever change — christmas. with the sue gray report ever change that _ christmas. with the sue gray report ever change that from _ christmas. with the sue gray report ever change that from 10096, - christmas. with the sue gray report ever change that from 10096, or - christmas. with the sue gray report i ever change that from 10096, or would ever change that from 100%, or would you stay 100% irrespective of what she says? and that is not a theoretical, hypothetical question. that last sentence, you recognise that it that last sentence, you recognise thatitis that last sentence, you recognise that it is hypothetical. ikla i that last sentence, you recognise that it is hypothetical. no i phrase it an a that it is hypothetical. no i phrase it anyway so _ that it is hypothetical. no i phrase it anyway so that _ that it is hypothetical. no i phrase it anyway so that it _ that it is hypothetical. no i phrase it anyway so that it wasn't - it anyway so that it wasn't hypothetical. you are the education secretary, not my english teacher. my secretary, not my english teacher. my answer to you is, i think it is only fair and right to wait for the sue gray investigation to conclude and for me to come back on your programme and the prime ministers submit himself to parliament and allow parliament to scrutinise that enquiry findings, and of course his statement to parliament.- enquiry findings, and of course his statement to parliament. allow me to have another— statement to parliament. allow me to have another go _ statement to parliament. allow me to have another go at _ statement to parliament. allow me to have another go at a _ statement to parliament. allow me to have another go at a broadly - statement to parliament. allow me to have another go at a broadly similar i have another go at a broadly similar question _ have another go at a broadly similar question, but from a different angle — question, but from a different angle try— question, but from a different angle. try to tease away from this idea of— angle. try to tease away from this idea of hypotheticals. let's put aside _ idea of hypotheticals. let's put aside sue — idea of hypotheticals. let's put aside sue gray, this whole row about parties _ aside sue gray, this whole row about parties if— aside sue gray, this whole row about parties ifa — aside sue gray, this whole row about parties. ifa prime aside sue gray, this whole row about parties. if a prime minister is found — parties. if a prime minister is found to _ parties. if a prime minister is found to have either misled the commons — found to have either misled the commons or broken ministerial code, could _ commons or broken ministerial code, could they— commons or broken ministerial code, could they continue in your view? well, _ could they continue in your view? well, of— could they continue in your view? well, of course the ministerial code is clear on this. i think it is wrong to passjudgment is clear on this. i think it is wrong to pass judgment on a prime minister who, wrong to pass judgment on a prime ministerwho, he wrong to pass judgment on a prime minister who, he himself has come to parliament and talked about the events of the 20th of may 2020, explained that he should have taken different action and he apologised for that. so we have had the apology, we need the detail now, and i think it would be very wrong for us to speculate any further, other than to say... us to speculate any further, other than to say- - -_ than to say... you say that the ministerial _ than to say... you say that the ministerial code _ than to say... you say that the ministerial code is _ than to say... you say that the ministerial code is clear - than to say... you say that the ministerial code is clear and i than to say... you say that the i ministerial code is clear and that it would — ministerial code is clear and that it would mean he would have to go, if he breached it, that is what you are saying? — if he breached it, that is what you are saying? its if he breached it, that is what you are saying?— are saying? as i say, the ministerial _ are saying? as i say, the ministerial code - are saying? as i say, the ministerial code has - are saying? as i say, the ministerial code has not| are saying? as i say, the - ministerial code has not been breached or broken. the investigation is the right way to be able to make a decision by sue gray as to whether rules had been broken. sure, and if it was broken he would have _ sure, and if it was broken he would have to _ sure, and if it was broken he would have to go? — sure, and if it was broken he would have to go? find sure, and if it was broken he would have to go?— have to go? and he has pledged to come to parliament _ have to go? and he has pledged to come to parliament and _ have to go? and he has pledged to come to parliament and offer - have to go? and he has pledged to i come to parliament and offer himself for scrutiny, and parliament will have that opportunity. at the end of the day, the prime ministers held to the day, the prime ministers held to the account by the british people through parliament, and that is the correct way of handling this. well. correct way of handling this. well, thank ou correct way of handling this. well, thank you very _ correct way of handling this. well, thank you very much, _ correct way of handling this. well, thank you very much, education i thank you very much, education secretary. a fair few conservative mps have expressed concerns about this whole party business, and one of them is tobias ellwood, the chair of them is tobias ellwood, the chair of them is tobias ellwood, the chair of the defence select committee he was making its new cast debut. hello, tobias. thanks so much for inviting me. we hello, tobias. thanks so much for inviting me— hello, tobias. thanks so much for invitin: me. . . ., ., . , inviting me. we are heading towards the weekend. _ inviting me. we are heading towards the weekend, which _ inviting me. we are heading towards the weekend, which is _ inviting me. we are heading towards the weekend, which is normally - inviting me. we are heading towards the weekend, which is normally the l the weekend, which is normally the time mps get to see their constituency most. have you already started picking up concerns for members of the public about all this? , ., ,., , members of the public about all this? , ., , ., this? yes, the e-mail inboxes have been deluged _ this? yes, the e-mail inboxes have been deluged with _ this? yes, the e-mail inboxes have been deluged with concerns - this? yes, the e-mail inboxes have been deluged with concerns about. been deluged with concerns about what has happened, and i think yesterday in parliament was a seismic moment. it was one where you are going to remember where you were. i cannot recall the atmosphere or tone in prime minister's question is, in my experience. i very much welcomed the prime minister's apology in recognition of the stupidity of what has been going on. it has generated genuine anger from the british people, who have endured so much hardship. so i am pleased to see some form of clarity and an apology. but at the moment it is not enough. we need to see some real change as to how the number ten construct works. it's culture, it's construct works. it's culture, its direction of travel, its strategy, andindeed direction of travel, its strategy, and indeed the personalities. 0therwise and indeed the personalities. otherwise we will not regain that trust from the british people. and we all then know where this heads. i'm intrigued by the devilish as you describe _ i'm intrigued by the devilish as you describe it — i'm intrigued by the devilish as you describe it. iwonder i'm intrigued by the devilish as you describe it. i wonder how it compares _ describe it. i wonder how it compares both in town and in the amount— compares both in town and in the amount of— compares both in town and in the amount of it with for instance the dominic— amount of it with for instance the dominic cummings or nhat cassel incident, — dominic cummings or nhat cassel incident, or any of these big moments _ incident, or any of these big moments in the past few years, of really_ moments in the past few years, of really cutting through. it�*s moments in the past few years, of really cutting through.— really cutting through. it's a culmination, _ really cutting through. it's a culmination, a _ really cutting through. it's a culmination, a build-up- really cutting through. it's a culmination, a build-up to i really cutting through. it's a - culmination, a build-up to state culmination, a build—up to state thatis culmination, a build—up to state that is not how we should be doing business here. i'm chair of the defence select committee, i want to be focusing on these international issues. we have got russia about to invade ukraine, china infiltrating parliament with its spies, we have an energy crisis coming up, and of course the enduring challenge of covid. these are the things you need to be focusing on. yet here we are. i think that is the concern come out the frustration from the british people. many mps, including myself, went public after november, december. a very difficult end to the year. we said, we are willing you on, prime minister, but we have to see change. he has come to parliament, made it very clear, showed some humility, but it is not enough. we have got sue gray, the report coming out, many mps will be looking at that very carefully. we should not be waiting for that report to show some determination, to refresh, regroup and show a commitment to say, "yes, we are going to turn a corner here." there were reports _ going to turn a corner here." there were reports that _ going to turn a corner here." there were reports that after _ going to turn a corner here." there were reports that after that - were reports that after that apology, which was extraordinary to watch, that borisjohnson then went and spoke to conservative mps behind the scenes in the house of commons, and he seemed sort of a bit less contrite and a bit less genuine afterwards than he did at the time. is that something that you witnessed or you have heard about? i is that something that you witnessed or you have heard about?— or you have heard about? i didn't witness it- _ or you have heard about? i didn't witness it- i _ or you have heard about? i didn't witness it. i did _ or you have heard about? i didn't witness it. i did hear— or you have heard about? i didn't witness it. i did hear about - or you have heard about? i didn't witness it. i did hear about it. - or you have heard about? i didn't witness it. i did hear about it. i. witness it. i did hear about it. i have been asked about it by other journalists. this is exactly where we need to recognise the prime minister's from strengths, but also his weaknesses. it is thanks to is energy, his determination, that we won the last election, that we want to be difficult battles, not least brexit. but it is the next battle thatis brexit. but it is the next battle that is important. and his weakness is that he does do the bigger picture, there needs to be better reading of the room. and that is a great example. they need to be people around him that say, even if you think that, you don't say it. you need to understand that where we are going on this, we need to work as a team to get through this. is there a particular person in mind that should be drafted in? it is not for me to make _ that should be drafted in? it is not for me to make those _ that should be drafted in? it is not for me to make those judgments. | that should be drafted in? it is not| for me to make those judgments. i that should be drafted in? it is not - for me to make those judgments. i am for me to make thosejudgments. i am not going to start to make those remarks. i am actually here at sandhurst this evening, which is the epicentre if you like of military leadership, where officers start their careers. and this is what it needs to will be about, about understanding the aspects of leadership, the limitations on the strengths, and making sure that you complement area where there are shortfalls. we have other issues, bigger national, international issues to focus on, that is where we need to go. bill issues to focus on, that is where we need to go— need to go. all of you mps got an e-mail from _ need to go. all of you mps got an e-mail from m15 _ need to go. all of you mps got an e-mail from m15 saying _ need to go. all of you mps got an e-mail from m15 saying they - need to go. all of you mps got an | e-mail from m15 saying they were, e—mail from mis saying they were, there is a chinese spy in your midst. did you know that christine lee, who is a familiar figure to some people around westminster, was a chinese spy? i some people around westminster, was a chinese spy?— a chinese spy? i was aware, yes, because she _ a chinese spy? i was aware, yes, because she had _ a chinese spy? i was aware, yes, because she had been _ a chinese spy? i was aware, yes, because she had been reported i a chinese spy? i was aware, yes, - because she had been reported about in the british media two or three years ago. so i'm surprised it has taken so long for mis to then send this letter of concern to say that she is conducting these activities. and i have called for a statement. indeed, today. i expect we will have it on monday. clarifying what exactly is going on. we firstly need to upgrade our capabilities to weed out those people that may be trying to cause us harm in this way, trying to cause us harm in this way, trying to advance a story, to manipulate, to advance a story, to manipulate, to influence us in this way. just to advance a story, to manipulate, to influence us in this way.- to influence us in this way. just to run something — to influence us in this way. just to run something you _ to influence us in this way. just to run something you that _ to influence us in this way. just to run something you that is - to influence us in this way. just to run something you that isjust - run something you that isjust breaking — run something you that isjust breaking as record the podcast at 5:20pm — breaking as record the podcast at 5:20pm. we are just hearing that prince _ 5:20pm. we are just hearing that prince andrew is being stripped of his various — prince andrew is being stripped of his various military titles, and indeed — his various military titles, and indeed losing the hrh title as well. given— indeed losing the hrh title as well. given your— indeed losing the hrh title as well. given your role on the defence select — given your role on the defence select committee, your previous time in the _ select committee, your previous time in the armed forces, i wonder what you make _ in the armed forces, i wonder what you make of— in the armed forces, i wonder what you make of that?— you make of that? well, i think it was inevitable _ you make of that? well, i think it was inevitable given _ you make of that? well, i think it was inevitable given where - you make of that? well, i think it was inevitable given where this i you make of that? well, i think it was inevitable given where this is going. the queen, her majesty, can be very ruthless when it comes to these matters. we have seen this and other parts of the monarchy as well. prince andrew already had stepped back for many of his public duties. so i think this was anticipated. indeed, it was expected from this perspective. indeed, it was expected from this perspective-— perspective. some absolutely not surrised. perspective. some absolutely not surprised- do _ perspective. some absolutely not surprised. do you _ perspective. some absolutely not surprised. do you welcome - perspective. some absolutely not surprised. do you welcome it? i perspective. some absolutely not - surprised. do you welcome it? sadly, i do. it is necessary. _ surprised. do you welcome it? sadly, ido. it is necessary. i— surprised. do you welcome it? sadly, i do. it is necessary. i am _ surprised. do you welcome it? sadly, i do. it is necessary. i am at - i do. it is necessary. i am at sandhurst. arguably, this is the one institution in britain, one of the few, that we can be ultimately proud of. and the royalfamily few, that we can be ultimately proud of. and the royal family has an intimate relationship with the regiments, going back in history. many of them are on colonels and so forth. and it is important that the problems that prince andrew have occurred aren't bled over into the regiments that he is representing. tobias, thank you very much for joining us. have a lovely evening in sandhurst. i'm imagining it involves swords. ., sandhurst. i'm imagining it involves swords. ~ ., ~ ., , , , swords. who knows where they will be auoin to swords. who knows where they will be going to end — swords. who knows where they will be going to end the _ swords. who knows where they will be going to end the very _ swords. who knows where they will be going to end the very near _ swords. who knows where they will be going to end the very near future. - going to end the very near future. the world is getting very bumpy indeed. but i'm very delighted to be here, to see this next generation that are going to help defend and look after britain's interests. thank you for your time. we appreciate it. good evening. it's been another dry, settled day across much of the uk. we have had some lingering mist and fog as well, and that's going to be reforming through the course of tonight. in fact, we've already seen some of that fog forming across parts of the midlands, into the welsh marches, lincolnshire, east anglia as well. these are the areas seeing the most dense and widespread fog, but elsewhere the odd misty and murky patch as well. and temperatures for most of us a few degrees either side of freezing as we head on into saturday morning. so some pockets of frost around, a fairly chilly start to the day, some sunshine around and, increasingly, some of this low cloud will tend to break up through the course of the day. most places, again, looking dry. just a few splashes of rain for the western isles and perhaps the far north of mainland scotland as well. temperatures on saturday only around five degrees close to the east coast, but turning a bit milder in the southwest — 11 celsius the top temperature in plymouth on saturday. and then no great change into sunday, but we could see a few splashes of rain moving south on a weakening cold front. but most places once again dry, temperatures in double figures in the south. bye— bye. tonight at ten, downing street apologises to the queen after two parties were held at number ten the night before the funeral of the duke of edinburgh. it was a time of national mourning last april, and covid rules meant indoor mixing was banned. 0ne senior member of the cabinet acknowledges public fury at the revelation. when i heard about this i was, of course, very, very concerned, and i understand that people across the country are angry about what has happened. and the former head of the government's covid taskforce has apologised for holding leaving drinks in december 2020. also tonight... novak djokovic's legal team try to stop his deportation from australia, after his visa is cancelled, again.