hello and welcome to the programme bringing together bbc specialists with correspondents who write, blog and broadcast for audiences in their own countries, on dateline london. this week, borisjohnson�*s finance minister opens the taxpayers�* purse as the prime minister tries to persuade world leaders to open theirs to alleviate climate change. plus, is famine stocking afghanistan? joining us is henry chu of the la times, who keeps the show on the road whilst the us west coast sleeps. latika bourke, columnist for the age and the sydney morning herald in australia. and here in the studio, the bbc�*s business editor simonjack. cop26 begins in glasgow this weekend. it is supposed to be the moment when the world's nations present pledges to mitigate climate change, agreed rules to prevent double counting and honour previously agreed plans in which the poorer countries can adapt to survive. the summit host, perennial optimist borisjohnson, says its success or failure is optimist borisjohnson, says its success orfailure is in the balance. the queen, usually a valuable asset in the last—minute lobbying and arm—twisting that characterises so much, won't be there. on medical advice, say courtiers. still, her majesty's said recently cop26 is very irritating when they talk about don't do. henry, why might we now be in the realm of expectation management for this summit?— this summit? well, certainly boris johnson this summit? well, certainly boris johnson has _ this summit? well, certainly boris johnson has been _ this summit? well, certainly boris johnson has been criticised - this summit? well, certainly boris johnson has been criticised by - johnson has been criticised by people as intending to overpromise and underachieve, but i think he has gone on the opposite direction in under promising and he hopes that he might overachieve. he said it was touch and go in terms of what might come out of this summit. we will have a bit of a barometer of that in the 620 have a bit of a barometer of that in the g20 global summit that will happen before cop26. if you can't get 20 countries to play nice and come up with commitments that are binding and impressive enough for the rest of the world to follow, you are not going to get 200 countries nearly to agree on that. the challenges are pretty daunting, some of them he doesn't have much leverage over. i think one of the foremost, in my mind, is the fact that right now the relationship between china and the us, the two biggest emitters of carbon gases and other greenhouse gases, is in pretty dire shape. if you remember six years ago, 2015, before the paris agreement was struck, the two countries issuing a joint statement was critical for the rest of the world to come on board and you have the visual of president obama is standing side—by—side with the chinese president. you are not going to have that at this conference. chinese president is not attending in person. he is only going appear virtually. washington and beijing right now are at a low point in their relations and neither one wants to be seen bowing or kowtowing to the other. there was some hope this could maybe be a stand—alone issue where they would recognise the good of the planet and not of their own national interest, but i think thatis own national interest, but i think that is going to be kind of difficult. and one other thing you mentioned too, about rich countries coughing up the money they had pledged which was $100 billion a year, to help the poorer nations adjust to the ravages of climate change, well, they haven't been doing that either. it has only been about mustering maybe 80% of that 100 million —— about mustering maybe 80% of that 100 million -- $100 billion. they say they probably won't get to that mark for another few years. that is going to be discouraging for poorer countries to hear, who already this year have seen rich countries not making good on their vaccination pledges through covax.— making good on their vaccination pledges through covax. latika, scott morrison, pledges through covax. latika, scott morrison. the _ pledges through covax. latika, scott morrison, the australian _ pledges through covax. latika, scott morrison, the australian prime - morrison, the australian prime minister, said in the last few days that he has come up with a uniquely australian solution, having been one of the lag guards in this international debate on climate change. international debate on climate chan . e. , international debate on climate chance. , ., ~ change. tell us more? well, the australian _ change. tell us more? well, the australian way, _ change. tell us more? well, the australian way, as _ change. tell us more? well, the australian way, as the _ change. tell us more? well, the australian way, as the prime - australian way, as the prime minisier— australian way, as the prime minister likes to refer to it, is deeply— minister likes to refer to it, is deeply unambitious in the short—term. we shouldn't understate 'ust short—term. we shouldn't understate just how— short—term. we shouldn't understate just how significant it is for a prime — just how significant it is for a prime minister of australia to stand up prime minister of australia to stand up and _ prime minister of australia to stand up and say— prime minister of australia to stand up and say we are going to commit to netzero— up and say we are going to commit to net zero x _ up and say we are going to commit to net zero x 2050, which is what he said this — net zero x 2050, which is what he said this week. and for him to still remain_ said this week. and for him to still remain in— said this week. and for him to still remain in thejob said this week. and for him to still remain in the job the next day is extraordinary. this has not happened in australian politics for at least a decade — in australian politics for at least a decade. in fact, we have played musicai— a decade. in fact, we have played musical chairs with our prime ministers— musical chairs with our prime ministers over this issue of climate change _ ministers over this issue of climate change politics in australia. so it is remarkable and it is a huge step forward _ is remarkable and it is a huge step forward for— is remarkable and it is a huge step forward for australia that the community and the politics have come to some _ community and the politics have come to some sort _ community and the politics have come to some sort of consensus. but when you dig _ to some sort of consensus. but when you dig a _ to some sort of consensus. but when you dig a little deeper you begin to understand why. that is because the prime _ understand why. that is because the prime minister has said that oil, -as prime minister has said that oil, gas will— prime minister has said that oil, gas will remain in the next foreseeable future. he has made a virtue _ foreseeable future. he has made a virtue of— foreseeable future. he has made a virtue of the fact that we are going to continue — virtue of the fact that we are going to continue mining in australia. we are going _ to continue mining in australia. we are going to— to continue mining in australia. we are going to continue exploring in australia — are going to continue exploring in australia. and you will see the prime — australia. and you will see the prime minister of australia join with china and india this weekend at the 620. _ with china and india this weekend at the 620. in— with china and india this weekend at the 620, in trying to fight off a move — the 620, in trying to fight off a move to — the 620, in trying to fight off a move to set a phase out date for cait _ move to set a phase out date for cait it _ move to set a phase out date for cait it is — move to set a phase out date for call. it is not the best company that those _ call. it is not the best company that those in australia who have been _ that those in australia who have been pushing for better climate change — been pushing for better climate change targets would have liked to have seen — change targets would have liked to have seen. ., ., , , ., ., have seen. how do they square that flow with the _ have seen. how do they square that flow with the problem _ have seen. how do they square that flow with the problem for _ have seen. how do they square that flow with the problem for the - flow with the problem for the asia—pacific region in particular, 1.5 billion people living on coasts? you can carry on with carbon, you can carry on building your economy on that but it becomes harder to find the carbon to burn to create the fossil fuels, and you are having to spend all that money mitigating the damaging environmental effects. ac going to be making that case in asia—pacific leadership or is it too politically compatible? asia-pacific leadership or is it too politically compatible?— politically compatible? there is some optimism. _ politically compatible? there is some optimism. one _ politically compatible? there is some optimism. one of - politically compatible? there is some optimism. one of the - politically compatible? there is some optimism. one of the big politically compatible? there is - some optimism. one of the big shift that has— some optimism. one of the big shift that has happened in australia is centred — that has happened in australia is centred around technology. you hear the australia prime minister say this all— the australia prime minister say this all the time, technology not taxes _ this all the time, technology not taxes. what you have in australia is the business community now picking up the business community now picking uu this— the business community now picking up this mantle for itself, taking on what _ up this mantle for itself, taking on what it— up this mantle for itself, taking on what it now— up this mantle for itself, taking on what it now is the future and looking — what it now is the future and looking around and saying, 0k, what it now is the future and looking around and saying, ok, now we have _ looking around and saying, ok, now we have some settled agreement politically about where this regulatory environment is going to take us, _ regulatory environment is going to take us, we can start to really plan for the _ take us, we can start to really plan for the future. sojust take us, we can start to really plan for the future. so just this week, for the future. so just this week, for instance, there are two really interesting of many australian companies here in the uk and heading to cou— companies here in the uk and heading to cop and _ companies here in the uk and heading to cop and going to be addressing cop, to cop and going to be addressing cop. one — to cop and going to be addressing cop, one of which is this fascinating company called sun cable, — fascinating company called sun cable, it— fascinating company called sun cable, it is going to build an enormous _ cable, it is going to build an enormous solar farm in the northern territory. _ enormous solar farm in the northern territory, where it is desert. and then— territory, where it is desert. and then send — territory, where it is desert. and then send that electricity via indonesian waters to singapore because — indonesian waters to singapore because singapore, constrained by its geography, can't create solar farms _ its geography, can't create solar farms like — its geography, can't create solar farms like astray. that project is being _ farms like astray. that project is being backed by an australian billionaire, who is here because he made _ billionaire, who is here because he made his— billionaire, who is here because he made his billions in i know. but he now wants — made his billions in i know. but he now wants to turn his company into a green _ now wants to turn his company into a green hydrogen energy exporter. so there _ green hydrogen energy exporter. so there are _ green hydrogen energy exporter. so there are a — green hydrogen energy exporter. so there are a lot of people in australia _ there are a lot of people in australia who are seeing the opportunities, knowing they can not make _ opportunities, knowing they can not make australia poorer along the way. that question of opportunities, but also who pays for the transition, is also who pays for the transition, is a huge one for the business community, isn't it?- a huge one for the business community, isn't it? yeah, i mean, one where — community, isn't it? yeah, i mean, one where the _ community, isn't it? yeah, i mean, one where the other _ community, isn't it? yeah, i mean, one where the other every - community, isn't it? yeah, i mean, one where the other every citizen i community, isn't it? yeah, i mean, | one where the other every citizen in the world _ one where the other every citizen in the world will— one where the other every citizen in the world will pay— one where the other every citizen in the world will pay for— one where the other every citizen in the world will pay for this. - one where the other every citizen in the world will pay for this. either. the world will pay for this. either pay through— the world will pay for this. either pay through our— the world will pay for this. either pay through our taxes _ the world will pay for this. either pay through our taxes or - the world will pay for this. either pay through our taxes or we - the world will pay for this. either pay through our taxes or we payl the world will pay for this. either. pay through our taxes or we pay for it the _ pay through our taxes or we pay for it the amount — pay through our taxes or we pay for it the amount we _ pay through our taxes or we pay for it the amount we pay _ pay through our taxes or we pay for it the amount we pay for _ pay through our taxes or we pay for it the amount we pay for the - it the amount we pay for the products— it the amount we pay for the products and _ it the amount we pay for the products and services - it the amount we pay for the products and services that l it the amount we pay for the i products and services that we consume _ products and services that we consume the _ products and services that we consume. the cost _ products and services that we consume. the cost of - products and services that we consume. the cost of this - products and services that we consume. the cost of this is. products and services that we - consume. the cost of this is going to he _ consume. the cost of this is going to be astronomical. _ consume. the cost of this is going to be astronomical. that- consume. the cost of this is going to be astronomical.— to be astronomical. that is the roblem to be astronomical. that is the problem with _ to be astronomical. that is the problem with the _ to be astronomical. that is the problem with the fossil - to be astronomical. that is the problem with the fossil fuel. to be astronomical. that is the i problem with the fossil fuel stop, it becomes more expensive to sustain where we are?— where we are? there are some parts which are an — where we are? there are some parts which are an easy — where we are? there are some parts which are an easy win. _ where we are? there are some parts which are an easy win. the _ where we are? there are some parts which are an easy win. the uk - where we are? there are some parts which are an easy win. the uk we . which are an easy win. the uk we have _ which are an easy win. the uk we have had — which are an easy win. the uk we have had a — which are an easy win. the uk we have had a huge _ which are an easy win. the uk we have had a huge success - which are an easy win. the uk we have had a huge success with- have had a huge success with offshore _ have had a huge success with offshore wind, _ have had a huge success with offshore wind, a _ have had a huge success with offshore wind, a big - have had a huge success with offshore wind, a big part- have had a huge success with offshore wind, a big part of. have had a huge success with. offshore wind, a big part of the energv— offshore wind, a big part of the energy mix _ offshore wind, a big part of the energy mix now _ offshore wind, a big part of the energy mix now.— offshore wind, a big part of the energy mix now. even the prime minister used _ energy mix now. even the prime minister used to _ energy mix now. even the prime minister used to joke _ energy mix now. even the prime minister used to joke about - energy mix now. even the prime minister used to joke about wind power as a journalist, now he's a big champion. ads, power as a journalist, now he's a big champion-— big champion. a lot of people thou . ht big champion. a lot of people thought it _ big champion. a lot of people thought it was _ big champion. a lot of people thought it was impossible - big champion. a lot of people thought it was impossible to l big champion. a lot of people i thought it was impossible to get betow— thought it was impossible to get below £100 _ thought it was impossible to get below £100 per— thought it was impossible to get below £100 per megawatt - thought it was impossible to get below £100 per megawatt hourl thought it was impossible to get i below £100 per megawatt hour but thought it was impossible to get - below £100 per megawatt hour but now it is 540 _ below £100 per megawatt hour but now it is 540 that— below £100 per megawatt hour but now it is 540 that is— below £100 per megawatt hour but now it is £40. that is the _ below £100 per megawatt hour but now it is £40. that is the easy— below £100 per megawatt hour but now it is £40. that is the easy bit. _ below £100 per megawatt hour but now it is £40. that is the easy bit. you i it is £40. that is the easy bit. you can do— it is £40. that is the easy bit. you can do that — it is £40. that is the easy bit. you can do that through _ it is £40. that is the easy bit. you can do that through offshore i it is £40. that is the easy bit. you| can do that through offshore wind, you can _ can do that through offshore wind, you can do — can do that through offshore wind, you can do it— can do that through offshore wind, you can do it through _ can do that through offshore wind, you can do it through renewables,| you can do it through renewables, nuclear— you can do it through renewables, nuclear has— you can do it through renewables, nuclear has a _ you can do it through renewables, nuclear has a role. _ you can do it through renewables, nuclear has a role. we _ you can do it through renewables, nuclear has a role. we know- you can do it through renewables, nuclear has a role. we know the l nuclear has a role. we know the government— nuclear has a role. we know the government is— nuclear has a role. we know the government is moving - nuclear has a role. we know the government is moving towardsl government is moving towards approving _ government is moving towards approving a _ government is moving towards approving a nuclear— government is moving towards approving a nuclear power i government is moving towardsl approving a nuclear power plant here _ approving a nuclear power plant here the — approving a nuclear power plant here. the tough _ approving a nuclear power plant here. the tough stuff _ approving a nuclear power plant here. the tough stuff is - approving a nuclear power plant here. the tough stuff is making| here. the tough stuff is making stuff _ here. the tough stuff is making stuff like — here. the tough stuff is making stuff like steel, _ here. the tough stuff is making stuff like steel, cement. - here. the tough stuff is making stuff like steel, cement. and i here. the tough stuff is making| stuff like steel, cement. and on that he — stuff like steel, cement. and on that he really— stuff like steel, cement. and on that he really do _ stuff like steel, cement. and on that he really do need _ stuff like steel, cement. and on that he really do need new- that he really do need new technology _ that he really do need new technology. you _ that he really do need new technology. you need i that he really do need new. technology. you need carbon that he really do need new— technology. you need carbon capture. as a point _ technology. you need carbon capture. as a point where _ technology. you need carbon capture. as a point where you _ technology. you need carbon capture. as a point where you are _ technology. you need carbon capture. as a point where you are burning i technology. you need carbon capture. as a point where you are burning the i as a point where you are burning the energy— as a point where you are burning the energy you _ as a point where you are burning the energy you can— as a point where you are burning the energy you can soak— as a point where you are burning the energy you can soak it _ as a point where you are burning the energy you can soak it back- as a point where you are burning the energy you can soak it back out i as a point where you are burning the energy you can soak it back out of. energy you can soak it back out of the atmosphere _ energy you can soak it back out of the atmosphere and _ energy you can soak it back out of the atmosphere and period - energy you can soak it back out of the atmosphere and period downl the atmosphere and period down underneath— the atmosphere and period down underneath the _ the atmosphere and period down underneath the ground. - the atmosphere and period down underneath the ground. for- the atmosphere and period down- underneath the ground. for example, the uk _ underneath the ground. for example, the uk has _ underneath the ground. for example, the uk has got — underneath the ground. for example, the uk has got a _ underneath the ground. for example, the uk has got a fantastic— underneath the ground. for example, the uk has got a fantastic resource i the uk has got a fantastic resource for that, _ the uk has got a fantastic resource for that, declining _ the uk has got a fantastic resource for that, declining depleted - the uk has got a fantastic resource for that, declining depleted oil- for that, declining depleted oil fields— for that, declining depleted oil fields in— for that, declining depleted oil fields in the _ for that, declining depleted oil fields in the north _ for that, declining depleted oil fields in the north coast. - for that, declining depleted oil fields in the north coast. thatl fields in the north coast. that technology— fields in the north coast. that technology is _ fields in the north coast. that technology is in _ fields in the north coast. that technology is in its _ fields in the north coast. that technology is in its infancy. i fields in the north coast. that. technology is in its infancy. we fields in the north coast. that i technology is in its infancy. we are nowhere _ technology is in its infancy. we are nowhere near— technology is in its infancy. we are nowhere near that _ technology is in its infancy. we are nowhere near that yet. _ technology is in its infancy. we are nowhere near that yet. the - technology is in its infancy. we are nowhere near that yet. the primel nowhere near that yet. the prime minister— nowhere near that yet. the prime minister of— nowhere near that yet. the prime minister of the _ nowhere near that yet. the prime minister of the uk's _ nowhere near that yet. the prime minister of the uk's favourite i nowhere near that yet. the primel minister of the uk's favourite word at the _ minister of the uk's favourite word at the moment— minister of the uk's favourite word at the moment right _ minister of the uk's favourite word at the moment right now- minister of the uk's favourite word at the moment right now is- minister of the uk's favourite word i at the moment right now is hydrogen. if at the moment right now is hydrogen. if you _ at the moment right now is hydrogen. if you said _ at the moment right now is hydrogen. if you said hydrogen _ at the moment right now is hydrogen. if you said hydrogen 100 _ at the moment right now is hydrogen. if you said hydrogen 100 times - at the moment right now is hydrogen. if you said hydrogen 100 times in i at the moment right now is hydrogen. if you said hydrogen 100 times in a i if you said hydrogen 100 times in a row, _ if you said hydrogen 100 times in a row, you _ if you said hydrogen 100 times in a row, you would _ if you said hydrogen 100 times in a row, you would get _ if you said hydrogen 100 times in a row, you would get any— if you said hydrogen 100 times in a row, you would get anyjob - if you said hydrogen 100 times in a row, you would get anyjob you i if you said hydrogen 100 times in a i row, you would get anyjob you want it in the _ row, you would get anyjob you want it in the cabinet. _ row, you would get anyjob you want it in the cabinet. a— row, you would get anyjob you want it in the cabinet. a lot _ row, you would get anyjob you want it in the cabinet. a lot of— row, you would get anyjob you want it in the cabinet. a lot of people i it in the cabinet. a lot of people have _ it in the cabinet. a lot of people have tweaked _ it in the cabinet. a lot of people have tweaked onto _ it in the cabinet. a lot of people have tweaked onto that. - it in the cabinet. a lot of people have tweaked onto that. the i it in the cabinet. a lot of people i have tweaked onto that. the nuclear power _ have tweaked onto that. the nuclear power industry — have tweaked onto that. the nuclear power industry are _ have tweaked onto that. the nuclear power industry are saying _ have tweaked onto that. the nuclear power industry are saying any - have tweaked onto that. the nuclear| power industry are saying any excess heat will _ power industry are saying any excess heat will he — power industry are saying any excess heat will be used _ power industry are saying any excess heat will be used to _ power industry are saying any excess heat will be used to generate - power industry are saying any excess heat will be used to generate extra l heat will be used to generate extra hydrogen, — heat will be used to generate extra hydrogen, which— heat will be used to generate extra hydrogen, which can _ heat will be used to generate extra hydrogen, which can be _ heat will be used to generate extra hydrogen, which can be used - heat will be used to generate extra hydrogen, which can be used in i heat will be used to generate extra i hydrogen, which can be used in heavy industry— hydrogen, which can be used in heavy industry and _ hydrogen, which can be used in heavy industry and long _ hydrogen, which can be used in heavy industry and long haul— hydrogen, which can be used in heavy industry and long haul transport. i industry and long haul transport. and indeed — industry and long haul transport. and indeed there _ industry and long haul transport. and indeed there is _ industry and long haul transport. and indeed there is a _ industry and long haul transport. and indeed there is a lot- industry and long haul transport. and indeed there is a lot of- industry and long haul transport. and indeed there is a lot of talk. and indeed there is a lot of talk about— and indeed there is a lot of talk about getting _ and indeed there is a lot of talk about getting renewables - and indeed there is a lot of talk about getting renewables to i and indeed there is a lot of talk. about getting renewables to make hydrogen — about getting renewables to make hydrogen as — about getting renewables to make hydrogen as well. _ about getting renewables to make hydrogen as well. the _ about getting renewables to make hydrogen as well. the point - about getting renewables to make hydrogen as well. the point is i about getting renewables to make hydrogen as well. the point is the| hydrogen as well. the point is the uk represents— hydrogen as well. the point is the uk represents 1%_ hydrogen as well. the point is the uk represents 1% of— hydrogen as well. the point is the uk represents 1% of global - uk represents 1% of global emissions _ uk represents 1% of global emissions. the _ uk represents 1% of global emissions. the bill- uk represents 1% of global emissions. the bill for- uk represents 1% of global i emissions. the bill for doing uk represents 1% of global - emissions. the bill for doing this by 2050 — emissions. the bill for doing this by 2050 is— emissions. the bill for doing this by 2050 is £1_ emissions. the bill for doing this by 2050 is £1 trillion. _ emissions. the bill for doing this by 2050 is £1 trillion. so - emissions. the bill for doing this by 2050 is £1 trillion. so if- emissions. the bill for doing this by 2050 is £1 trillion. so if you i by 2050 is £1 trillion. so if you times— by 2050 is £1 trillion. so if you times that _ by 2050 is £1 trillion. so if you times that by— by 2050 is £1 trillion. so if you times that by 100, _ by 2050 is £1 trillion. so if you times that by 100, the - by 2050 is £1 trillion. so if you times that by 100, the costs . by 2050 is £1 trillion. so if you i times that by 100, the costs are absolutely— times that by 100, the costs are absolutely astronomical. - times that by 100, the costs are i absolutely astronomical. obviously climate _ absolutely astronomical. obviously climate activists _ absolutely astronomical. obviously climate activists would _ absolutely astronomical. obviously climate activists would rightly- absolutely astronomical. obviously climate activists would rightly say. climate activists would rightly say the cost _ climate activists would rightly say the cost of — climate activists would rightly say the cost of not _ climate activists would rightly say the cost of not doing _ climate activists would rightly say the cost of not doing this - climate activists would rightly say the cost of not doing this are i climate activists would rightly sayl the cost of not doing this are even worse _ the cost of not doing this are even worse but— the cost of not doing this are even worse. but nevertheless, - the cost of not doing this are even worse. but nevertheless, when i the cost of not doing this are evenl worse. but nevertheless, when you put that— worse. but nevertheless, when you put that kind — worse. but nevertheless, when you put that kind of _ worse. but nevertheless, when you put that kind of money _ worse. but nevertheless, when you put that kind of money in... - worse. but nevertheless, when you put that kind of money in... by- worse. but nevertheless, when you put that kind of money in... by the| put that kind of money in... by the way, _ put that kind of money in... by the way, it— put that kind of money in... by the way, it is— put that kind of money in... by the way, it is not— put that kind of money in... by the way. it is noti'ust _ put that kind of money in... by the way, it is notjust some _ put that kind of money in... by the way, it is notjust some cost. i put that kind of money in... by the| way, it is notjust some cost. there is the _ way, it is notjust some cost. there is the multiplier— way, it is notjust some cost. there is the multiplier effect, _ way, it is notjust some cost. there is the multiplier effect, creating i is the multiplier effect, creating jobs. _ is the multiplier effect, creating jobs. creating _ is the multiplier effect, creating jobs, creating taxes, _ is the multiplier effect, creating jobs, creating taxes, creating. is the multiplier effect, creating . jobs, creating taxes, creating new industries— jobs, creating taxes, creating new industries which _ jobs, creating taxes, creating new industries which could _ jobs, creating taxes, creating new industries which could offset - jobs, creating taxes, creating new| industries which could offset some of that_ industries which could offset some of that investment. _ industries which could offset some of that investment. would - industries which could offset some of that investment. would be - industries which could offset somei of that investment. would be under no illusion. — of that investment. would be under no illusion, the _ of that investment. would be under no illusion, the costs— of that investment. would be under no illusion, the costs are _ no illusion, the costs are absolutely _ no illusion, the costs are absolutely phenomenal. | no illusion, the costs are absolutely phenomenal. henry, joe biden will travel _ absolutely phenomenal. henry, joe biden will travel from _ absolutely phenomenal. henry, joe biden will travel from rome - absolutely phenomenal. henry, joe biden will travel from rome to - biden will travel from rome to glasgow, going first to the g20 and then onto glasgow for cop26. but he is arriving without congressional agreement and his big infrastructure bill, which was supposed to be, in about climate change and tackling it. is there any sign of coherent leadership in america yet on this question, whether it is a city, state or federal?— question, whether it is a city, state or federal? certainly on the federal level _ state or federal? certainly on the federal level there _ state or federal? certainly on the federal level there is _ state or federal? certainly on the federal level there is a _ state or federal? certainly on the federal level there is a possibility the democrats can end their squabbling and come up with a funding plan that biden can present a cup 26 mac. it is a fairly remarkable package still, even in its name down state. we are talking about half $1 trillion in incentives and other measures to try to encourage climate change fighting technologies and behavioural changes. if he could actually arrive in glasgow with that in hand i think that would increase the us's credible is the stage with this. but then you go down to lower levels of state and city levels, and unfortunately it is the same political divide that we see on the national level happening at the micro level as well. so you've got liberal cities like my own in los angeles or new york signing up to this worldwide pledge, with other big cities, to divest their public funds from fossil fuel companies. then you have other cities not doing so much. you have my state california, where the governor recently unveiled a $15 billion package to fight climate change. then you have the governor of texas, were to be fair it's actually a fairly big producer wind energy, but when antonio guterres, the secretary general of the united nations warned texasit general of the united nations warned texas it needed to stop being so overreliant on oil and gas, the governor actually tweeted two words, which were pound signs. it is unfortunate we are going to be seeing the same sort of polarisation at local level as on federal level. on this question about whether pension— on this question about whether pension funds _ on this question about whether pension funds should _ on this question about whether pension funds should divest - on this question about whether i pension funds should divest from on this question about whether - pension funds should divest from oil and gas _ pension funds should divest from oil and gas and — pension funds should divest from oil and gas and other— pension funds should divest from oil and gas and other carbon _ pension funds should divest from oil and gas and other carbon intensive i and gas and other carbon intensive stuff, _ and gas and other carbon intensive stuff, that— and gas and other carbon intensive stuff, that wru— and gas and other carbon intensive stuff, that will be _ and gas and other carbon intensive stuff, that will be a _ and gas and other carbon intensive stuff, that will be a big _ and gas and other carbon intensive stuff, that will be a big debate - and gas and other carbon intensive stuff, that will be a big debate at l stuff, that will be a big debate at cop26~ _ stuff, that will be a big debate at cop26~ there _ stuff, that will be a big debate at cop26. there is _ stuff, that will be a big debate at cop26. there is a _ stuff, that will be a big debate at cop26. there is a big _ stuff, that will be a big debate at cop26. there is a big argument, i stuff, that will be a big debate at. cop26. there is a big argument, is it better_ cop26. there is a big argument, is it better to— cop26. there is a big argument, is it better to say— cop26. there is a big argument, is it better to say we're _ cop26. there is a big argument, is it better to say we're going - cop26. there is a big argument, is it better to say we're going to - cop26. there is a big argument, is it better to say we're going to sell| it better to say we're going to sell our shares — it better to say we're going to sell our shares in _ it better to say we're going to sell our shares in exxon, _ it better to say we're going to sell our shares in exxon, shell, - it better to say we're going to sell our shares in exxon, shell, bp, . our shares in exxon, shell, bp, or do you— our shares in exxon, shell, bp, or do you try— our shares in exxon, shell, bp, or do you tryto— our shares in exxon, shell, bp, or do you try to engage _ our shares in exxon, shell, bp, or do you try to engage with those i do you try to engage with those businesses? _ do you try to engage with those businesses? a— do you try to engage with those businesses? a lot _ do you try to engage with those businesses? a lot of _ do you try to engage with those businesses? a lot of the - do you try to engage with those businesses? a lot of the oil- do you try to engage with those i businesses? a lot of the oil majors will tell— businesses? a lot of the oil majors will tell you — businesses? a lot of the oil majors will tell you if _ businesses? a lot of the oil majors will tell you if you _ businesses? a lot of the oil majors will tell you if you divest _ businesses? a lot of the oil majors will tell you if you divest yourself l will tell you if you divest yourself and just — will tell you if you divest yourself and just sett— will tell you if you divest yourself and just sell them, _ will tell you if you divest yourself and just sell them, it _ will tell you if you divest yourself and just sell them, it doesn't - will tell you if you divest yourself . and just sell them, it doesn't mean the stuff— and just sell them, it doesn't mean the stuff is — and just sell them, it doesn't mean the stuff is not _ and just sell them, it doesn't mean the stuff is not going _ and just sell them, it doesn't mean the stuff is not going to _ and just sell them, it doesn't mean the stuff is not going to happen. i the stuff is not going to happen. those _ the stuff is not going to happen. those assets _ the stuff is not going to happen. those assets will _ the stuff is not going to happen. those assets will be _ the stuff is not going to happen. those assets will be hoovered . the stuff is not going to happen. | those assets will be hoovered up the stuff is not going to happen. - those assets will be hoovered up by people _ those assets will be hoovered up by peopte perhaps _ those assets will be hoovered up by peopte perhaps less— those assets will be hoovered up by people perhaps less transparent - those assets will be hoovered up byl people perhaps less transparent with less commitment— people perhaps less transparent with less commitment to _ people perhaps less transparent with less commitment to try— people perhaps less transparent with less commitment to try to _ people perhaps less transparent with less commitment to try to do - people perhaps less transparent with less commitment to try to do this, i less commitment to try to do this, so the _ less commitment to try to do this, so the question— less commitment to try to do this, so the question about _ less commitment to try to do this, so the question about divesting. less commitment to try to do this, so the question about divesting or| so the question about divesting or engaging — so the question about divesting or engaging wiii— so the question about divesting or engaging will be _ so the question about divesting or engaging will be a _ so the question about divesting or engaging will be a key— so the question about divesting or engaging will be a key one - so the question about divesting or engaging will be a key one that i engaging will be a key one that people — engaging will be a key one that people like _ engaging will be a key one that people like blackrock, - engaging will be a key one that people like blackrock, the - engaging will be a key one that - people like blackrock, the masters of the _ people like blackrock, the masters of the universe _ people like blackrock, the masters of the universe in _ people like blackrock, the masters of the universe in some _ people like blackrock, the masters of the universe in some ways, - people like blackrock, the masters of the universe in some ways, they| of the universe in some ways, they will have _ of the universe in some ways, they will have a — of the universe in some ways, they will have a big _ of the universe in some ways, they will have a big say _ of the universe in some ways, they will have a big say on _ of the universe in some ways, they will have a big say on how- of the universe in some ways, they will have a big say on how this - will have a big say on how this goes — will have a big say on how this noes. . ~' will have a big say on how this noes. . ~ ,, y will have a big say on how this uoes. ., ~' , . will have a big say on how this ioes. ., ~' , . goes. thank you very much. the uk finance minister, _ goes. thank you very much. the uk finance minister, the _ goes. thank you very much. the uk finance minister, the chancellor - goes. thank you very much. the uk finance minister, the chancellor of. finance minister, the chancellor of the exchequer, was certainly managing expectations this week. its budget and spending plans for the next three years including the largest increase in taxes and almost 30 years. not that you would non—? but not that you would have none. rishi sunak says the budget was creating a new age of optimism, which includes the highest tax burden since the 19505. that is hot spa. slightly tongue in cheek, simon, but there are a series of questions about it. is it possible to square the rhetoric with the reality of the measures he is introducing?— reality of the measures he is introducing? reality of the measures he is introducin? ., . ., w , introducing? you have to take this last budget _ introducing? you have to take this last budget ? _ introducing? you have to take this last budget ? but _ introducing? you have to take this last budget ? but you _ introducing? you have to take this last budget ? but you have - introducing? you have to take this last budget ? but you have to - introducing? you have to take thisj last budget ? but you have to take this budget — last budget ? but you have to take this budget with _ last budget ? but you have to take this budget with the _ last budget ? but you have to take this budget with the last _ last budget ? but you have to take this budget with the last one. - last budget ? but you have to take this budget with the last one. we i this budget with the last one. we have _ this budget with the last one. we have seen— this budget with the last one. we have seen some _ this budget with the last one. we have seen some of— this budget with the last one. we have seen some of the _ this budget with the last one. we have seen some of the biggest i this budget with the last one. we i have seen some of the biggest tax rises _ have seen some of the biggest tax rises we _ have seen some of the biggest tax rises we have _ have seen some of the biggest tax rises we have seen _ have seen some of the biggest tax rises we have seen in— have seen some of the biggest tax rises we have seen in a _ have seen some of the biggest taxl rises we have seen in a generation, 40, rises we have seen in a generation, 40. 50 _ rises we have seen in a generation, 40. 50 billion, _ rises we have seen in a generation, 40, 50 billion, the _ rises we have seen in a generation, 40, 50 billion, the highest - rises we have seen in a generation, 40, 50 billion, the highest tax - 40, 50 billion, the highest tax burden— 40,50 billion, the highest tax burden since _ 40,50 billion, the highest tax burden since the _ 40,50 billion, the highest tax burden since the 19505. - 40,50 billion, the highest tax burden since the 19505. back. 40,50 billion, the highest taxl burden since the 19505. back in march _ burden since the 19505. back in march he — burden since the 19505. back in march he said _ burden since the 19505. back in march he said we _ burden since the 19505. back in march he said we have - burden since the 19505. back in march he said we have had - burden since the 19505. back in march he said we have had a i burden since the 19505. back in. march he said we have had a one burden since the 19505. back in - march he said we have had a one in 300 year— march he said we have had a one in 300 year event, _ march he said we have had a one in 300 yearevent. i— march he said we have had a one in 300 year event, i have _ march he said we have had a one in 300 year event, i have paid - march he said we have had a one in 300 year event, i have paid the - 300 year event, i have paid the wages — 300 year event, i have paid the wages of— 300 year event, i have paid the wages of ii _ 300 year event, i have paid the wages of 11 million _ 300 year event, i have paid the wages of 11 million workers. - 300 year event, i have paid the - wages of 11 million workers. payback was inevitable. _ wages of 11 million workers. payback was inevitable. people _ wages of 11 million workers. payback was inevitable. people sucked - wages of11 million workers. payback was inevitable. people sucked it- wages of 11 million workers. payback was inevitable. people sucked it up. was inevitable. people sucked it up and said. _ was inevitable. people sucked it up and said. ok. — was inevitable. people sucked it up and said, ok, that— was inevitable. people sucked it up and said, ok, that is— was inevitable. people sucked it up and said, ok, that is fun, - was inevitable. people sucked it up and said, ok, that is fun, we - and said, ok, that is fun, we realised _ and said, ok, that is fun, we realised there _ and said, ok, that is fun, we realised there was _ and said, ok, that is fun, we realised there was a - and said, ok, that is fun, we realised there was a bill. - and said, ok, that is fun, we realised there was a bill. a l and said, ok, that is fun, we i realised there was a bill. a new economic— realised there was a bill. a new economic numbers _ realised there was a bill. a new economic numbers came - realised there was a bill. a new economic numbers came out. realised there was a bill. a new. economic numbers came out and realised there was a bill. a new- economic numbers came out and set actually— economic numbers came out and set actually it's — economic numbers came out and set actually it's not— economic numbers came out and set actually it's not quite _ economic numbers came out and set actually it's not quite as _ actually it's not quite as catastrophic— actually it's not quite as catastrophic as - actually it's not quite as catastrophic as we - actually it's not quite as - catastrophic as we thought, in actually it's not quite as _ catastrophic as we thought, in fact, you've _ catastrophic as we thought, in fact, you've got — catastrophic as we thought, in fact, you've got plenty _ catastrophic as we thought, in fact, you've got plenty more _ catastrophic as we thought, in fact, you've got plenty more money- catastrophic as we thought, in fact, you've got plenty more money than you've got plenty more money than you thought — you've got plenty more money than you thought you _ you've got plenty more money than you thought you would _ you've got plenty more money than you thought you would have, - you've got plenty more money than you thought you would have, but i you've got plenty more money than. you thought you would have, but the question— you thought you would have, but the question was, — you thought you would have, but the question was, would _ you thought you would have, but the question was, would he _ you thought you would have, but the question was, would he give - you thought you would have, but the question was, would he give that - question was, would he give that back or— question was, would he give that back or spend _ question was, would he give that back or spend it? _ question was, would he give that back or spend it? a— question was, would he give that back or spend it? a little - question was, would he give that back or spend it? a little bit- question was, would he give that back or spend it? a little bit and| back or spend it? a little bit and spent _ back or spend it? a little bit and spent a — back or spend it? a little bit and spent a lot _ back or spend it? a little bit and spent a lot. mainly _ back or spend it? a little bit and spent a lot. mainly on _ back or spend it? a little bit and spent a lot. mainly on health. i back or spend it? a little bit and| spent a lot. mainly on health. so the size — spent a lot. mainly on health. so the size of— spent a lot. mainly on health. so the size of the _ spent a lot. mainly on health. so the size of the state _ spent a lot. mainly on health. so the size of the state now- spent a lot. mainly on health. so the size of the state now is - spent a lot. mainly on health. so the size of the state now is at. the size of the state now is at levels — the size of the state now is at levels we _ the size of the state now is at levels we have _ the size of the state now is at levels we have not _ the size of the state now is at levels we have not seen - the size of the state now is at levels we have not seen since the size of the state now is at - levels we have not seen since the i970s~ _ levels we have not seen since the i970s~ some _ levels we have not seen since the i970s~ some say— levels we have not seen since the 19705. some say this _ levels we have not seen since the 19705. some say this is _ levels we have not seen since the 19705. some say this isjust- 19705. some say this isjust accepting _ 19705. some say this isjust accepting the _ 19705. some say this isjust accepting the reality. - 19705. some say this isjust accepting the reality. we i 19705. some say this isjust. accepting the reality. we have 19705. some say this isjust- accepting the reality. we have an ageing _ accepting the reality. we have an ageing population. _ accepting the reality. we have an ageing population, the _ accepting the reality. we have an ageing population, the health- accepting the reality. we have an . ageing population, the health costs are not— ageing population, the health costs are not really— ageing population, the health costs are not really high. _ ageing population, the health costs are not really high. right _ ageing population, the health costs are not really high. right at - ageing population, the health costs are not really high. right at the - are not really high. right at the end of— are not really high. right at the end of his — are not really high. right at the end of his budget— are not really high. right at the end of his budget he _ are not really high. right at the end of his budget he kind - are not really high. right at the end of his budget he kind of- are not really high. right at the i end of his budget he kind of gave this weird — end of his budget he kind of gave this weird little _ end of his budget he kind of gave this weird little moment - end of his budget he kind of gave this weird little moment when i end of his budget he kind of gave this weird little moment when he said. _ this weird little moment when he said. i_ this weird little moment when he said. ididn't— this weird little moment when he said, ididn't really— this weird little moment when he said, i didn't really want - this weird little moment when he said, i didn't really want to - this weird little moment when he said, i didn't really want to do. said, i didn't really want to do this. — said, i didn't really want to do this. this _ said, i didn't really want to do this. this is _ said, i didn't really want to do this, this is not _ said, ididn't really want to do this, this is not who— said, i didn't really want to do this, this is not who i- said, i didn't really want to do this, this is not who i am. - said, i didn't really want to do this, this is not who i am. i. said, i didn't really want to do. this, this is not who i am. i want to be _ this, this is not who i am. i want to be a— this, this is not who i am. i want to be a tax—cutting, _ this, this is not who i am. i want to be a tax—cutting, fiscally - to be a tax—cutting, fiscally traditional— to be a tax—cutting, fiscally traditional chancellor. - to be a tax—cutting, fiscally traditional chancellor. he l to be a tax—cutting, fiscally i traditional chancellor. he said to be a tax—cutting, fiscally - traditional chancellor. he said in an interview— traditional chancellor. he said in an interview with _ traditional chancellor. he said in an interview with the _ traditional chancellor. he said in an interview with the bbc- traditional chancellor. he said in an interview with the bbc he - traditional chancellor. he said in i an interview with the bbc he hopes to cut _ an interview with the bbc he hopes to cut those — an interview with the bbc he hopes to cut those taxes _ an interview with the bbc he hopes to cut those taxes towards - an interview with the bbc he hopes to cut those taxes towards the - an interview with the bbc he hopes to cut those taxes towards the end| to cut those taxes towards the end of this— to cut those taxes towards the end of this parliament. _ to cut those taxes towards the end of this parliament. but _ to cut those taxes towards the end of this parliament. but certainly. of this parliament. but certainly the conservative _ of this parliament. but certainly the conservative party- of this parliament. but certainly the conservative party is - of this parliament. but certainly the conservative party is a - of this parliament. but certainlyi the conservative party is a rather -- is _ the conservative party is a rather -- is in _ the conservative party is a rather -- is in a — the conservative party is a rather -- is in a rather— the conservative party is a rather —— is in a rather peculiar- the conservative party is a rather| —— is in a rather peculiar position, despite _ —— is in a rather peculiar position, despite the — —— is in a rather peculiar position, despite the opposition _ —— is in a rather peculiar position, despite the opposition labour- —— is in a rather peculiar position, i despite the opposition labour party in a fix _ despite the opposition labour party in a fix why— despite the opposition labour party in a fix why do— despite the opposition labour party in a fix. why do they— despite the opposition labour party in a fix. why do they go _ despite the opposition labour party in a fix. why do they go when - despite the opposition labour party in a fix. why do they go when you l in a fix. why do they go when you have _ in a fix. why do they go when you have got— in a fix. why do they go when you have got the _ in a fix. why do they go when you have got the state _ in a fix. why do they go when you have got the state of— in a fix. why do they go when you have got the state of this - in a fix. why do they go when you have got the state of this size - in a fix. why do they go when you i have got the state of this size when i have got the state of this size when i have _ have got the state of this size when i have spent— have got the state of this size when i have spent so— have got the state of this size when i have spent so much— have got the state of this size when i have spent so much money? - have got the state of this size when i have spent so much money? you| i have spent so much money? you would _ i have spent so much money? you would like — i have spent so much money? you would like to — i have spent so much money? you would like to cut _ i have spent so much money? you would like to cut taxes _ i have spent so much money? you would like to cut taxes but - i have spent so much money? you would like to cut taxes but it - would like to cut taxes but it doesn't _ would like to cut taxes but it doesn't look _ would like to cut taxes but it doesn't look like _ would like to cut taxes but it doesn't look like it _ would like to cut taxes but it doesn't look like it will- would like to cut taxes but it doesn't look like it will be i would like to cut taxes but it . doesn't look like it will be able would like to cut taxes but it - doesn't look like it will be able to doesn't look like it will be able to do it— doesn't look like it will be able to do it soon — doesn't look like it will be able to do it soon a_ doesn't look like it will be able to do it soon. a lot _ doesn't look like it will be able to do it soon. a lot of— doesn't look like it will be able to do it soon. a lot of people - doesn't look like it will be able to. do it soon. a lot of people thinking this new— do it soon. a lot of people thinking this new timetable _ do it soon. a lot of people thinking this new timetable needs - do it soon. a lot of people thinking this new timetable needs an - do it soon. a lot of people thinking l this new timetable needs an election will be _ this new timetable needs an election will be a _ this new timetable needs an election will be a bit — this new timetable needs an election will be a bit later. _ this new timetable needs an election will be a bit later. a _ this new timetable needs an election will be a bit later. a lot _ this new timetable needs an election will be a bit later. a lot of _ this new timetable needs an election will be a bit later. a lot of people - will be a bit later. a lot of people thinking — will be a bit later. a lot of people thinking they— will be a bit later. a lot of people thinking they were _ will be a bit later. a lot of people thinking they were gearing - will be a bit later. a lot of people thinking they were gearing up- will be a bit later. a lot of people thinking they were gearing up forj will be a bit later. a lot of people i thinking they were gearing up for a bil thinking they were gearing up for a big tax— thinking they were gearing up for a big tax cut — thinking they were gearing up for a big tax cut in — thinking they were gearing up for a big tax cut in 2023 _ thinking they were gearing up for a big tax cut in 2023 out _ thinking they were gearing up for a big tax cut in 2023 out of - thinking they were gearing up for a big tax cut in 2023 out of an - big tax cut in 2023 out of an election _ big tax cut in 2023 out of an election. maybe _ big tax cut in 2023 out of an election. maybe it— big tax cut in 2023 out of an election. maybe it will- big tax cut in 2023 out of an election. maybe it will be i big tax cut in 2023 out of an - election. maybe it will be further away— election. maybe it will be further away than — election. maybe it will be further away than that _ election. maybe it will be further away than that.— away than that. latika, is it possible — away than that. latika, is it possible to _ away than that. latika, is it possible to look _ away than that. latika, is it possible to look at - away than that. latika, is it possible to look at this - away than that. latika, is it possible to look at this and | away than that. latika, is it - possible to look at this and say this is a government which has got the balance right between, notjust the balance right between, notjust the haves and the have nots but the generations? simon was talking about big increased spending on health. at the same time he was announcing the good news that schools will now get as much money per pupil as they got ten years ago. i mean, the balance of this is questionable, isn't it? yes. and on international aid, which ithink— yes. and on international aid, which i think is— yes. and on international aid, which i think is really overlooked in this whole _ i think is really overlooked in this whole debate. that was one of the first things — whole debate. that was one of the first things that rishi sunak caught in the _ first things that rishi sunak caught in the name of the pandemic, saying, -ee, in the name of the pandemic, saying, gee. the _ in the name of the pandemic, saying, gee, the finances are so terrible we can't _ gee, the finances are so terrible we can't possibly afford to help the poor— can't possibly afford to help the poor as — can't possibly afford to help the poor as we had committed to. both sides— poor as we had committed to. both sides of— poor as we had committed to. both sides of parliament, in legislation... that is not going up any time — legislation... that is not going up any time soon, yet suddenly they have _ any time soon, yet suddenly they have found this money for all the other— have found this money for all the other things like the overhaul of alcohol— other things like the overhaul of alcohol taxes. they can make it cheaper— alcohol taxes. they can make it cheaper to— alcohol taxes. they can make it cheaper to fly domestically in the uk but _ cheaper to fly domestically in the uk but i — cheaper to fly domestically in the uk but i can't find the money to restore — uk but i can't find the money to restore that original promise, which is actually— restore that original promise, which is actually tied to gross national income — is actually tied to gross national income in — is actually tied to gross national income in any way. it is not a lump sum— income in any way. it is not a lump sum that— income in any way. it is not a lump sum that they then have to tweak back~ _ sum that they then have to tweak back it _ sum that they then have to tweak back. it naturally tapers down, as the economy expands or contracts. rishi _ the economy expands or contracts. rishi sunak— the economy expands or contracts. rishi sunak saying this at the —— at the end _ rishi sunak saying this at the —— at the end of— rishi sunak saying this at the —— at the end of his budget reminds me of this great— the end of his budget reminds me of this great land at kevin rudd, the labour— this great land at kevin rudd, the labour prime minister in 2007 when he was _ labour prime minister in 2007 when he was on _ labour prime minister in 2007 when he was on track to win his landslide victory— he was on track to win his landslide victory over — he was on track to win his landslide victory over a conservative prime minister. — victory over a conservative prime minister, he came out and said, people — minister, he came out and said, people called me a fiscal conservative. an enterprising iournalist _ conservative. an enterprising journalist went back and look to history— journalist went back and look to history and nobody had ever called him a _ history and nobody had ever called him a fiscal— history and nobody had ever called him a fiscal conservative. i think rishi _ him a fiscal conservative. i think rishi sunak— him a fiscal conservative. i think rishi sunak may be wanting a little self describing mojo for himself too. self describing mo'o for himself too. a , ~ self describing mo'o for himself too. ~ ., , ~' ., , self describing mo'o for himself too. , ~' ., , ., too. many think the lady doth rotest too. many think the lady doth protest too — too. many think the lady doth protest too much, _ too. many think the lady doth protest too much, to - too. many think the lady doth protest too much, to quote i protest too much, to quote shakespeare. henry, a balance to be admired or doubted, do you think? oh, i certainly think to be questioned, as we would have any power ? for party in power. to go back to simon's point comparing this to what happened a year ago, let's also think about what happened over ten years. the conservatives in power, notjust on the borisjohnson were back under david cameron, instituted fairly crippling austerity cuts that we had not seen also since world war ii. we keep talking about this huge generational shift. the fact that health is going to be back to that 2010 level, sorry, education, health has been ok and so is the home office but plenty of other departments are not necessarily going to find they are black flush as they were even a decade ago. —— back inflows. we still have the bout of inflation. they are pegging it at between 4% and 5% next year. that will cut into people's spending power and that includes the government's on spending power. each percentage or half a percentage point is going to make all this a little bit tougher on rishi sunak and borisjohnson as the year goes by. i on rishi sunak and boris johnson as the year goes by— the year goes by. i think that's an im ortant the year goes by. i think that's an important point. _ the year goes by. i think that's an important point. inflation - the year goes by. i think that's an important point. inflation was - the year goes by. i think that's an important point. inflation was the thing _ important point. inflation was the thing that— important point. inflation was the thing that stalked _ important point. inflation was the thing that stalked this _ important point. inflation was the thing that stalked this budget. . important point. inflation was the thing that stalked this budget. iti thing that stalked this budget. it stalked — thing that stalked this budget. it stalked the — thing that stalked this budget. it stalked the economy. _ thing that stalked this budget. it stalked the economy. in - thing that stalked this budget. it stalked the economy. in the - thing that stalked this budget. it stalked the economy. in the uki thing that stalked this budget. it. stalked the economy. in the uk is around _ stalked the economy. in the uk is around the — stalked the economy. in the uk is around the world. _ stalked the economy. in the uk is around the world. even _ stalked the economy. in the uk is around the world. even though i stalked the economy. in the uk is around the world. even though all stalked the economy. in the uk is . around the world. even though all of this spending. — around the world. even though all of this spending. hey— around the world. even though all of this spending, hey big _ around the world. even though all of this spending, hey big spender- around the world. even though all ofi this spending, hey big spender where the headlines— this spending, hey big spender where the headlines in— this spending, hey big spender where the headlines in the _ this spending, hey big spender where the headlines in the uk, _ this spending, hey big spender where the headlines in the uk, a _ this spending, hey big spender where the headlines in the uk, a lot - this spending, hey big spender where the headlines in the uk, a lot of- the headlines in the uk, a lot of people — the headlines in the uk, a lot of people will— the headlines in the uk, a lot of people will not _ the headlines in the uk, a lot of people will not feel _ the headlines in the uk, a lot of people will not feel that - the headlines in the uk, a lot of people will not feel that things. the headlines in the uk, a lot of. people will not feel that things are actually— people will not feel that things are actually getting _ people will not feel that things are actually getting better. _ people will not feel that things are actually getting better. they - people will not feel that things are actually getting better. they want| actually getting better. they want for the _ actually getting better. they want for the benefit _ actually getting better. they want for the benefit of _ actually getting better. they want for the benefit of that _ actually getting better. they want for the benefit of that because - actually getting better. they want for the benefit of that because of| for the benefit of that because of inflation — for the benefit of that because of inflation and _ for the benefit of that because of inflation and indeed _ for the benefit of that because of inflation and indeed a _ for the benefit of that because of inflation and indeed a rise - for the benefit of that because of inflation and indeed a rise in- inflation and indeed a rise in employee _ inflation and indeed a rise in employee tax _ inflation and indeed a rise in employee tax contributions. j inflation and indeed a rise in- employee tax contributions. you are only going _ employee tax contributions. you are only going to — employee tax contributions. you are only going to see _ employee tax contributions. you are only going to see wage _ employee tax contributions. you are only going to see wage increases - employee tax contributions. you are only going to see wage increases of| only going to see wage increases of 5% to— only going to see wage increases of 5% to stand — only going to see wage increases of 5% to stand still _ only going to see wage increases of 5% to stand still in _ only going to see wage increases of 5% to stand still in that _ 5% to stand still in that environment. - 5% to stand still in that environment. lots - 5% to stand still in that environment. lots of l 5% to stand still in that - environment. lots of spending. 5% to stand still in that _ environment. lots of spending. when you feel— environment. lots of spending. when you feel the _ environment. lots of spending. when you feel the benefit? _ environment. lots of spending. when you feel the benefit?— you feel the benefit? probably not. ma be not you feel the benefit? probably not. maybe not the _ you feel the benefit? probably not. maybe not the new— you feel the benefit? probably not. maybe not the new age _ you feel the benefit? probably not. maybe not the new age of - you feel the benefit? probably not. | maybe not the new age of optimism just yet. thank you. the chancellor was able to delete one line of expenditure this week. 20 years of funding a military presence in afghanistan has ended. a different sort of funding may already be needed, aid to avert famine. afghanistan is bankrupt and the taliban is floundering. challenged in the house of commons to help, borisjohnson said the uk could not write a completely blank check for a country that risked becoming again a haven for growing opium and cultivating terrorism. latika, regional foreign cultivating terrorism. latika, regionalforeign ministers cultivating terrorism. latika, regional foreign ministers were meeting in tehran on friday and ended by issuing a statement calling for international assistance. australia is one country that had a military presence and has done things like, for example, take afghan refugees who wanted to flee the taliban. is there a sense in the region that realistically people are going to have to get involved again one way or another?— one way or another? well, it was interesting _ one way or another? well, it was interesting to _ one way or another? well, it was interesting to see _ one way or another? well, it was interesting to see this _ one way or another? well, it was interesting to see this week - one way or another? well, it was interesting to see this week that| interesting to see this week that the australian government committed another— the australian government committed another $100 million to foreign aid, humanitarian assistance, to afghanistan. it is very well for me to criticise — afghanistan. it is very well for me to criticise the british, but australia's foreign aid contributions are absolutely paltry. ithink— contributions are absolutely paltry. i think it _ contributions are absolutely paltry. i think it is — contributions are absolutely paltry. i think it is 0.21% of gni. we are nota— i think it is 0.21% of gni. we are nota big— i think it is 0.21% of gni. we are not a big downer, we are not a big giver— not a big downer, we are not a big giver and — not a big downer, we are not a big giver and we — not a big downer, we are not a big giverand we are not a big downer, we are not a big giver and we are not very generous when _ giver and we are not very generous when it— giver and we are not very generous when it comes to foreign aid. this is a substantial donation from a struggle — is a substantial donation from a struggle that the government said this week. clearly that is the only lever— this week. clearly that is the only lever really that australia sees itself _ lever really that australia sees itself having over the taliban. australia _ itself having over the taliban. australia has spent over two decades $1.5 australia has spent over two decades $15 billion _ australia has spent over two decades $1.5 billion in trying to develop afghanistan. and the question that the australian government has to ask his voters— the australian government has to ask his voters was, is that worth it? look— his voters was, is that worth it? look what— his voters was, is that worth it? look what happened at the end of those _ look what happened at the end of those two — look what happened at the end of those two decades. we have handed afghanistan back with a bow on top to the _ afghanistan back with a bow on top to the taliban.— to the taliban. henry, what about the impact _ to the taliban. henry, what about the impact in _ to the taliban. henry, what about the impact in washington? - to the taliban. henry, what about the impact in washington? we i to the taliban. henry, what about l the impact in washington? we have only had the debate about the withdrawal from afghanistan. only had the debate about the withdrawalfrom afghanistan. i only had the debate about the withdrawal from afghanistan. i think there was a cold this week for a committee of enquiry to be set up to consider this question and being critical of president biden's policy. how much criticism is there in washington about how you engage with the taliban and how you ensure this does not turn into notjust a humanitarian crisis with famine, but further deterioration and yet again the breeding ground for international terrorism? i the breeding ground for international terrorism? i think something _ international terrorism? i think something that _ international terrorism? i think something that might - international terrorism? i think something that might be - international terrorism? i think something that might be evenl international terrorism? i think - something that might be even more fearful to americans than the taliban in charge in afghanistan is a failed state in afghanistan. just as you say. that becomes a geopolitical nightmare. the region and the rest of the world will have to suffer. i think the us is recognised, just like australia, having just announced more aid yesterday, the us said it was going to pledge another $144 million. that will raise its overall amount this year to 600 million plus. of course, a lot of that was placed before the taliban took over in august. now the fear is that that money will not be directed in the right way and they don't want to fund the taliban. they are still going to funnel it through ng oprah and other to try to make sure that the talilban itself is not benefiting from this. we are talking about a humanitarian disaster in the making for a country whose budget in the past was 75% of foreign aid. so you really do need these donors to standby. the fact the taliban itself isn't equipped to be able to distribute any of these aid, you know, 120,000 people or more were evacuated from afghanistan after the fall of kabul mac. many of those people are professionals, well—trained engineers, economists, many of them women, whom the taliban is not allowing to work, and they have lost a real serious human resource right there. this is really staring them in the face right now is the winter comes on. it is staring them in the face right now is the winter comes on.— staring them in the face right now is the winter comes on. it is a huge challenge. — is the winter comes on. it is a huge challenge, simon. _ is the winter comes on. it is a huge challenge, simon. business - is the winter comes on. it is a huge challenge, simon. business too - challenge, simon. business too played a big part in the development of afghanistan. they built a stop in the world bank wouldn't pay them the money because they wouldn't allow money because they wouldn't allow money to go back into afghanistan. ngos playing a big role in the strip it in the aid. it is a messy picture?— it in the aid. it is a messy icture? ., , ., . picture? the world food programme sa s it is picture? the world food programme says it is the — picture? the world food programme says it is the biggest _ picture? the world food programme says it is the biggest humanitarian i says it is the biggest humanitarian crisis _ says it is the biggest humanitarian crisis in _ says it is the biggest humanitarian crisis in the — says it is the biggest humanitarian crisis in the world _ says it is the biggest humanitarian crisis in the world developing - crisis in the world developing there~ — crisis in the world developing there. there _ crisis in the world developing there. there is— crisis in the world developing there. there is a _ crisis in the world developing there. there is a state - crisis in the world developing there. there is a state of- crisis in the world developingj there. there is a state of one crisis in the world developing i there. there is a state of one to five emergency— there. there is a state of one to five emergency food _ there. there is a state of one to five emergency food situation. i there. there is a state of one to. five emergency food situation. 47% of the _ five emergency food situation. 47% of the country. _ five emergency food situation. 47% of the country, three _ five emergency food situation. 47% of the country, three or— five emergency food situation. 47% of the country, three or four, - five emergency food situation. 47%j of the country, three or four, which is either— of the country, three or four, which is either critical— of the country, three or four, which is either critical or— of the country, three or four, which is either critical or emergency. - of the country, three or four, which is either critical or emergency. we i is either critical or emergency. we are going — is either critical or emergency. we are going into— is either critical or emergency. we are going into the _ is either critical or emergency. we are going into the winter- is either critical or emergency. we are going into the winter months. | is either critical or emergency. we l are going into the winter months. i think— are going into the winter months. i think one _ are going into the winter months. i think one of— are going into the winter months. i think one of the _ are going into the winter months. i think one of the other— are going into the winter months. i think one of the other thing - are going into the winter months. i think one of the other thing is - are going into the winter months. i think one of the other thing is the. think one of the other thing is the international— think one of the other thing is the international community - think one of the other thing is the international community has - think one of the other thing is the international community has to i international community has to figure — international community has to figure out— international community has to figure out is— international community has to figure out is are _ international community has to figure out is are they— international community has to figure out is are they going - international community has to figure out is are they going to i figure out is are they going to recognise _ figure out is are they going to recognise and _ figure out is are they going to recognise and deal— figure out is are they going to recognise and deal with - figure out is are they going to recognise and deal with the l figure out is are they going to - recognise and deal with the taliban, yes or— recognise and deal with the taliban, yes or no? _ recognise and deal with the taliban, yes or no? there _ recognise and deal with the taliban, yes or no? there is— recognise and deal with the taliban, yes or no? there is the _ recognise and deal with the taliban, yes or no? there is the $9- recognise and deal with the taliban, yes or no? there is the $9 billion i yes or no? there is the $9 billion of foreign — yes or no? there is the $9 billion of foreign assets _ yes or no? there is the $9 billion of foreign assets frozen - yes or no? there is the $9 billion of foreign assets frozen outside i of foreign assets frozen outside afghanistan _ of foreign assets frozen outside afghanistan l— of foreign assets frozen outside afghanistan-— afghanistan. i think the afghan forein afghanistan. i think the afghan foreign minister— afghanistan. i think the afghan foreign minister has _ afghanistan. i think the afghan foreign minister has been - afghanistan. i think the afghan - foreign minister has been lobbying in doha this week saying, let us have that money at least. the iuestion have that money at least. the question is. — have that money at least. the question is, are _ have that money at least. the question is, are we _ have that money at least. the question is, are we going to deal with the — question is, are we going to deal with the taliban, _ question is, are we going to deal with the taliban, yes _ question is, are we going to deal with the taliban, yes or- question is, are we going to deal with the taliban, yes or no? - question is, are we going to deal with the taliban, yes or no? do i question is, are we going to deal. with the taliban, yes or no? do we hold our— with the taliban, yes or no? do we hold our nose _ with the taliban, yes or no? do we hold our nose and _ with the taliban, yes or no? do we hold our nose and deal— with the taliban, yes or no? do we hold our nose and deal with - with the taliban, yes or no? do we hold our nose and deal with them i with the taliban, yes or no? do we i hold our nose and deal with them and free this _ hold our nose and deal with them and free this money— hold our nose and deal with them and free this money on _ hold our nose and deal with them and free this money on the _ hold our nose and deal with them and free this money on the basis - hold our nose and deal with them and free this money on the basis that - hold our nose and deal with them and free this money on the basis that if. free this money on the basis that if we don't _ free this money on the basis that if we don't we — free this money on the basis that if we don't we will _ free this money on the basis that if we don't we will see _ free this money on the basis that if we don't we will see the _ free this money on the basis that if we don't we will see the economy, | we don't we will see the economy, which _ we don't we will see the economy, which is _ we don't we will see the economy, which is already— we don't we will see the economy, which is already collapsed, - we don't we will see the economy, which is already collapsed, there l we don't we will see the economy, j which is already collapsed, there is absolutely — which is already collapsed, there is absolutely no — which is already collapsed, there is absolutely no way _ which is already collapsed, there is absolutely no way of _ which is already collapsed, there is absolutely no way of getting - which is already collapsed, there is absolutely no way of getting a - absolutely no way of getting a packed — absolutely no way of getting a packed out? _ absolutely no way of getting a packed out? i— absolutely no way of getting a packed out? i think— absolutely no way of getting a packed out? i think a - absolutely no way of getting a packed out? i think a lot- absolutely no way of getting a packed out? i think a lot of. absolutely no way of getting a - packed out? i think a lot of people around _ packed out? i think a lot of people around the — packed out? i think a lot of people around the world _ packed out? i think a lot of people around the world feel _ packed out? i think a lot of people around the world feel slightly- around the world feel slightly embarrassed, _ around the world feel slightly embarrassed, ashamed - around the world feel slightly embarrassed, ashamed even| around the world feel slightly- embarrassed, ashamed even about the way afghanistan — embarrassed, ashamed even about the way afghanistan was _ embarrassed, ashamed even about the way afghanistan was left. _ embarrassed, ashamed even about the way afghanistan was left. very - way afghanistan was left. very vulnerable _ way afghanistan was left. very vulnerable to _ way afghanistan was left. very vulnerable to the _ way afghanistan was left. very vulnerable to the kind - way afghanistan was left. very vulnerable to the kind of - way afghanistan was left. very - vulnerable to the kind of economic and famine — vulnerable to the kind of economic and famine are _ vulnerable to the kind of economic and famine are shocks— vulnerable to the kind of economic and famine are shocks that - vulnerable to the kind of economic and famine are shocks that we - vulnerable to the kind of economic and famine are shocks that we are| and famine are shocks that we are seeing _ and famine are shocks that we are seeing aid — and famine are shocks that we are seeing aid is— and famine are shocks that we are seeing. aid is getting _ and famine are shocks that we are seeing. aid is getting in. - and famine are shocks that we are seeing. aid is getting in. the - seeing. aid is getting in. the taliban— seeing. aid is getting in. the taliban are _ seeing. aid is getting in. the taliban are not _ seeing. aid is getting in. the taliban are not preventing i seeing. aid is getting in. the taliban are not preventing it| taliban are not preventing it getting _ taliban are not preventing it getting in_ taliban are not preventing it getting in because - taliban are not preventing it getting in because they- taliban are not preventing it getting in because they do l taliban are not preventing it. getting in because they do not taliban are not preventing it- getting in because they do not want a failed _ getting in because they do not want a failed state — getting in because they do not want a failed state on _ getting in because they do not want a failed state on their— getting in because they do not want a failed state on their hands. - getting in because they do not want a failed state on their hands. they. a failed state on their hands. they don't _ a failed state on their hands. they don't want — a failed state on their hands. they don't want the _ a failed state on their hands. they don't want the men _ a failed state on their hands. they don't want the men if _ a failed state on their hands. they don't want the men if they- a failed state on their hands. they don't want the men if they take i a failed state on their hands. they. don't want the men if they take over the entire _ don't want the men if they take over the entire country— don't want the men if they take over the entire country for— don't want the men if they take over the entire country for it _ don't want the men if they take over the entire country for it to _ the entire country for it to collapse _ the entire country for it to collapse. that _ the entire country for it to collapse. that is - the entire country for it to collapse. that is not - the entire country for it to collapse. that is not at. the entire country for it to . collapse. that is not at their the entire country for it to - collapse. that is not at their best interest _ collapse. that is not at their best interest either. _ collapse. that is not at their best interest either. just _ collapse. that is not at their best interest either. just how- collapse. that is not at their best interest either. just how those i interest either. just how those channets— interest either. just how those channels will— interest either. just how those channels will work— interest either. just how those channels will work and - interest either. just how those channels will work and to - interest either. just how thosei channels will work and to what extent — channels will work and to what extent you _ channels will work and to what extent you begin _ channels will work and to what extent you begin to _ channels will work and to what extent you begin to recognisei channels will work and to what i extent you begin to recognise the tatiban— extent you begin to recognise the taliban as — extent you begin to recognise the taliban as a — extent you begin to recognise the taliban as a legitimate _ extent you begin to recognise the i taliban as a legitimate government is a tiig _ taliban as a legitimate government is a tiig political— taliban as a legitimate government is a big political question. - taliban as a legitimate government is a big political question. while - taliban as a legitimate government is a big political question. while i. is a big political question. while i don't _ is a big political question. while i don't think— is a big political question. while i don't think there _ is a big political question. while i don't think there is _ is a big political question. while i don't think there is any _ don't think there is any international— don't think there is any| international consensus don't think there is any - international consensus right don't think there is any _ international consensus right now, and whilst — international consensus right now, and whilst we _ international consensus right now, and whilst we wait _ international consensus right now, and whilst we wait for _ international consensus right now, and whilst we wait for that - and whilst we wait for that consensus, _ and whilst we wait for that consensus, the _ and whilst we wait for that consensus, the situation l and whilst we wait for that| consensus, the situation is deteriorating _ consensus, the situation is deteriorating in _ consensus, the situation is deteriorating in a - consensus, the situation is deteriorating in a really - consensus, the situation is i deteriorating in a really tragic way~ — deteriorating in a really tragic way. terry— deteriorating in a really tragic way. terry was _ deteriorating in a really tragic way. terry was an _ deteriorating in a really tragic way. terry was an interesting | way. terry was an interesting report, — way. terry was an interesting report, recommend - way. terry was an interesting i report, recommend everybody way. terry was an interesting - report, recommend everybody watch it, report, recommend everybody watch it. the _ report, recommend everybody watch it. the bbc_ report, recommend everybody watch it, the bbc correspondent _ report, recommend everybody watch it, the bbc correspondent saying - it, the bbc correspondent saying that tragicatty _ it, the bbc correspondent saying that tragically some _ it, the bbc correspondent saying that tragically some people - it, the bbc correspondent saying that tragically some people are i that tragically some people are treing _ that tragically some people are treing forced _ that tragically some people are being forced to _ that tragically some people are being forced to sell _ that tragically some people are being forced to sell their- that tragically some people are . being forced to sell their children in order— being forced to sell their children in order to — being forced to sell their children in order to get _ being forced to sell their children in order to get enough _ being forced to sell their children in order to get enough food. - being forced to sell their children in order to get enough food. it. being forced to sell their children in order to get enough food. it is| being forced to sell their children. in order to get enough food. it is a very hard — in order to get enough food. it is a very hard watch _ in order to get enough food. it is a very hard watch but _ in order to get enough food. it is a very hard watch but i— in order to get enough food. it is a very hard watch but i think- in order to get enough food. it is a very hard watch but i think if - in order to get enough food. it is a very hard watch but i think if you l very hard watch but i think if you want _ very hard watch but i think if you want a _ very hard watch but i think if you want a ported _ very hard watch but i think if you want a ported of _ very hard watch but i think if you want a ported of what _ very hard watch but i think if you want a ported of what is - very hard watch but i think if you want a ported of what is going i very hard watch but i think if you| want a ported of what is going on there. _ want a ported of what is going on there. i_ want a ported of what is going on there. iwoutd _ want a ported of what is going on there, i would give _ want a ported of what is going on there, i would give it _ want a ported of what is going on there, i would give it a _ want a ported of what is going on there, i would give it a look. - want a ported of what is going on there, i would give it a look. ti. there, i would give it a look. sombre note to end on board there, i would give it a look.- sombre note to end on board an important one. that can be found on baby —— various bbc resources. latika bourke, henry chu and simon jack, thank you very much. thank you for watching. two challenges still facing the taliban. one is the opium trade, which has been a huge problem in the times even of the western occupation. heroin was still getting from the opium fields of afghanistan to the streets of the west. that is a good financial resource if the taliban want to use it. and the threat of terrorist activity from groups allied to the islamic state. from all of us on dateline london, goodbye. hello, we have seen some heavy bursts of rain earlier on this morning, but the rain will be easing its way gradually eastward, so it's going to be an improving picture through the course of today. a return to some sunshine around, but certainly still rain at times on and off through the course of the weekend. and it's going to be quite breezy as well. feeling cooler, in fact, than we've seen over recent days. here's today's weather front with us, pushing its way eastwards then a smaller ridge of high pressure for a time, so some sunshine returning to northern ireland, wales, south—west england, for instance. the cloud and the rain lingering for longest for eastern england and eastern scotland. quite breezy with that rain as well, but an improving picture this afternoon. it won't be as warm as recent days. temperatures around about ten to 15 degrees and there will be one or two scattered showers still moving in from the west as well, but predominantly dry later on as we head on into the evening hours. overnight, though, we're going to see the arrival of the next area of low pressure moving its way in, bringing some heavy rain and some strong winds to the south—west of england, wales and northern ireland through the early hours of sunday morning. further north and east, we've got clearer skies, so actually quite a chilly start across the north—east of scotland. don't forget that the clocks are going to be changing tonight, the early hours of sunday morning. they're going to go back one hour, so you may be lucky to get an extra hour in bed sunday morning — unless you've got small children, of course! this area of low pressure, though, still with us to dominate sunday's weather, so it's going to bring more wet and windy weather, gales possible at times, particularly through wales, south—west england, through the english channel as well. that heavy rain moving northwards and eastwards, followed by some clearer skies and heavy, potentially thundery showers as well, so a really mixed picture through the day tomorrow. temperatures only about ten to ia degrees, so just starting to come down a notch compared to recent days. it is, of course, halloween, october sist. if you've got plans to go trick or treating, quite a bit of dry weather in the south and the east, but more showers rattling in to northern and western parts. moving through into monday, then, and we've still got low pressure sitting to the north of the uk, so another fairly windy day to come and there'll be some more heavy rain in areas that could really do without it, particularly south and west scotland into north—west england as well, so the potential for furtherflooding problems as we head on into monday. a little bit drier further south with some sunshine, but temperatures about nine to 13 degrees. so really, the next few days are looking reasonably mild, but still very unsettled. something a bit drier and cooler into next week, bye—bye. this is bbc news. these are the latest headlines in the uk and around the world. world leaders are in rome for the 620 summit where climate change and covid—i9 are expected to dominate talks. the italian prime minister, mario draghi, opens the summit with a call for multilateral action as the only way to solve the problems the world is facing. the more we go with all our challenges, the more it is clear that multilateralism is the best answer to the problems we face today. but a row over post—brexit fishing rights between britain and france threatens to sour discussions. borisjohnson insists he doesn't want that to distract from the 620 or the key climate change summit in glasgow.