now on bbc news...it�*s time for the media show. hello, it's been another bad week for facebook. on monday, the world's biggest news brands published a coordinated series of stories all based on whistle—blower frances haugen and her trove of leaked documents. so, how did haugen, a product manager come to have such a strong media pr and support? and has anything new been revealed this week? and whilst facebook might be facing difficulties in the real world, that has not stopped them investing heavily in an alternative reality future. so what exactly is the metaverse? and how soon before we are all living in it? well, joining me to discuss all of that is my panel of guests. nicola millard is a presenter, writer and principal innovation partner at bt. nicola, what is a principal innovation partner and why does bt need one? good question, well, i used to be bt�*s futurologist and i got very tired of the crystal ball jokes. i do have one, it doesn't work. but my role is i am part of bt�*s innovation team. i am here to innovate with and for our customers. very good. lauren goode is a senior writer at wired. lauren, you host the get wired podcast. what sort of thing does that cover? the get wired podcast we highlight some of wired's most impactful stories, and we kind of explore the intersection of technology and humanity. that's the best way i would describe it. what we will hear a bit more from you and nicola slightly later on in the show. also with us today is madhumita murgia. european tech correspondent at the financial times. maddie you have been spending a lot of your time following silicon valley at the moment. yes, that's right. we have been part of quite a big - project looking at several- hundred documents that were leaked from facebook, i and so we have kind of, it's been a team effort. people have been looking at them and analysing - them together as a group. and last but definitely not least, is emily birnbaum, tech lobbying reporter at politico. so, emily, let's start with you because as maddie just said facebook has been doing a lot of lobbying and pr this past week. we have heard whistle—blower former facebook employee frances haugen has been in the news for several weeks now over her leach documents. she has had a series of media partnerships starting with the wall streetjournal. what did she do with them and who has she been working with since? yeah, so she says that she first met the wall street journal reporter who she would work with to disclose the original documents, she says she has been working with him since december. so it was originally jack horwitz at the wall streetjournal. he came out with a series called the facebook files which essentially, you know, showed that in various ways facebook is aware it has been contributing to social harms and has done little to stop it. and ever since then it hasjust kind of been a whirlwind. haugen and her team decided it was time to get these documents out there to a broader audience, and she wanted to raise more attention around them. so her pr firm in the us created this sort of ad hoc media consortium. 17 us publications, more in europe. there were all given a certain amount of time to pour over these thousands of documents. and this past week was when most of them published.— was when most of them ublished. ~ .. ,., ., ~' published. we invited facebook on the programme _ published. we invited facebook on the programme but - published. we invited facebook on the programme but they - published. we invited facebook. on the programme but they were not able to make it on. a murdoch owned paper and he has long been a critic of facebook. several publications workers the seem facebook this week and publishing stories. how did all come together?— publishing stories. how did all come together? there has been, ou come together? there has been, you know. _ come together? there has been, you know. kind — come together? there has been, you know, kind of— come together? there has been, you know, kind of an _ come together? there has been, you know, kind of an almost - you know, kind of an almost unprecedented _ you know, kind of an almostj unprecedented collaboration you know, kind of an almost - unprecedented collaboration and working — unprecedented collaboration and working together— unprecedented collaboration and working together of— unprecedented collaboration and working together of various - working together of various media _ working together of various media organisations. - working together of various media organisations. i- working together of various l media organisations. i wasn't involved _ media organisations. i wasn't involved from _ media organisations. i wasn't involved from the _ media organisations. i wasn't involved from the very - media organisations. i wasn't involved from the very start, | involved from the very start, but colleagues _ involved from the very start, but colleagues of _ involved from the very start, but colleagues of mine - involved from the very start, but colleagues of mine were | involved from the very start, - but colleagues of mine were and that i_ but colleagues of mine were and that i came _ but colleagues of mine were and that i came in— but colleagues of mine were and that i came in and _ but colleagues of mine were and that i came in and i— but colleagues of mine were and that i came in and i think- but colleagues of mine were and that i came in and i think that i that i came in and i think that is true — that i came in and i think that is true of— that i came in and i think that is true of other— that i came in and i think that is true of other publications . is true of other publications as welt _ is true of other publications as welt we _ is true of other publications as well. we have _ is true of other publications as well. we have had - is true of other publications i as well. we have had different reporters— as well. we have had different reporters coming _ as well. we have had different reporters coming in— as well. we have had different reporters coming in because . reporters coming in because there's— reporters coming in because there's been— reporters coming in because there's been so— reporters coming in because there's been so many- reporters coming in because . there's been so many different aspects — there's been so many different aspects to— there's been so many different aspects to the _ there's been so many different aspects to the stories - there's been so many different aspects to the stories that - aspects to the stories that have — aspects to the stories that have been— aspects to the stories that have been pouring - aspects to the stories that have been pouring out- aspects to the stories that have been pouring out of. aspects to the stories that - have been pouring out of these documents _ have been pouring out of these documents. we _ have been pouring out of these documents. we hear— have been pouring out of these documents. we hear at- have been pouring out of these documents. we hear at the - have been pouring out of these documents. we hear at the fti documents. we hear at the ft see ourselves _ documents. we hear at the ft see ourselves as _ documents. we hear at the ft see ourselves as a _ documents. we hear at the ft see ourselves as a global - see ourselves as a global publication— see ourselves as a global publication so— see ourselves as a global publication so we - see ourselves as a global publication so we had - see ourselves as a global - publication so we had reporters in the _ publication so we had reporters in the middle — publication so we had reporters in the middle east _ publication so we had reporters in the middle east and - publication so we had reporters in the middle east and south i in the middle east and south asia — in the middle east and south asia looking _ in the middle east and south asia looking at _ in the middle east and south asia looking at these - in the middle east and south - asia looking at these documents to give _ asia looking at these documents to give some _ asia looking at these documents to give some political— asia looking at these documents to give some political context. to give some political context as weti— to give some political context as well and _ to give some political context as well and he _ to give some political context as well and he obviously- to give some political context as well and he obviously hadl as well and he obviously had people — as well and he obviously had people in— as well and he obviously had people in the _ as well and he obviously had people in the us _ as well and he obviously had people in the us and - as well and he obviously had people in the us and we - as well and he obviously had people in the us and we had as well and he obviously had i people in the us and we had all of the _ people in the us and we had all of the other— people in the us and we had all of the other reporters - people in the us and we had all of the other reporters from - of the other reporters from other— of the other reporters from other places _ of the other reporters from other places as _ of the other reporters from other places as well. - of the other reporters from other places as well. so . of the other reporters from i other places as well. so kind of on — other places as well. so kind of on the _ other places as well. so kind of on the ground _ other places as well. so kind of on the ground there - other places as well. so kind of on the ground there has l other places as well. so kind - of on the ground there has been joint _ of on the ground there has been joint catts— of on the ground there has been joint calls and _ of on the ground there has been joint calls and we _ of on the ground there has been joint calls and we have - of on the ground there has been joint calls and we have all - joint calls and we have all been _ joint calls and we have all been trying _ joint calls and we have all been trying to _ joint calls and we have allj been trying to understand joint calls and we have all - been trying to understand what these _ been trying to understand what these documents _ been trying to understand what these documents are _ been trying to understand what these documents are saying. been trying to understand what these documents are saying as| been trying to understand what. these documents are saying as a group _ these documents are saying as a group and — these documents are saying as a group and then— these documents are saying as a group and then trying _ these documents are saying as a group and then trying to - these documents are saying as a group and then trying to go - these documents are saying as a group and then trying to go in i group and then trying to go in commit— group and then trying to go in commit figure _ group and then trying to go in commit figure out _ group and then trying to go in commit figure out what - group and then trying to go in commit figure out what her. group and then trying to go in . commit figure out what her own stories— commit figure out what her own stories are _ commit figure out what her own stories are and _ commit figure out what her own stories are and which _ commit figure out what her own stories are and which bits - commit figure out what her own stories are and which bits we i stories are and which bits we want — stories are and which bits we want to— stories are and which bits we want to highlight. _ stories are and which bits we want to highlight. so - stories are and which bits we want to highlight.— want to highlight. so a big, big global _ want to highlight. so a big, big global movement. - want to highlight. so a big, big global movement. butl want to highlight. so a big, - big global movement. but emily who was leading this, somebody had to be leading it surely? the ap actually took a lot of the sort of leadership from the journalists. and sort of corralling everyone into a group from slacks, and apparently we are a consortium now. a lot of stuff around the branding of the documents, the embargo time decided by the journalists but also obviously there has been a lot of coordination with her pr firm and working with her pr firm on, can we get that document, or herfirm arranged a on, can we get that document, or her firm arranged a series of briefings with her. it has been really notably sprawling and quite well manicured effort to you know undertake this pretty huge project. so to you know undertake this pretty huge project. pretty huge pro'ect. so that's the consortium]— pretty huge project. so that's the consortium and _ pretty huge project. so that's the consortium and how- pretty huge project. so that's the consortium and how it. the consortium and how it worked. as you said there's a pr firm behind it. but what were the big headlines that came out this week? we did learn some new stuff, didn't we? , , ~ learn some new stuff, didn't we? , , . learn some new stuff, didn't we? , , ~ ., learn some new stuff, didn't we? , , . ., we? oh yes. we look to as areas of thins we? oh yes. we look to as areas of things that — we? oh yes. we look to as areas of things that came _ we? oh yes. we look to as areas of things that came out - we? oh yes. we look to as areas of things that came out of- we? oh yes. we look to as areas of things that came out of one i of things that came out of one of the — of things that came out of one of the big _ of things that came out of one of the big things _ of things that came out of one of the big things was - of things that came out of one of the big things was what are| of the big things was what are major— of the big things was what are major like _ of the big things was what are major like rich _ of the big things was what are major like rich problems- of the big things was what are major like rich problems thatl major like rich problems that facebook— major like rich problems that facebook has _ major like rich problems that facebook has globally - major like rich problems that facebook has globally and i major like rich problems that. facebook has globally and this is an— facebook has globally and this is an interest _ facebook has globally and this is an interest of— facebook has globally and this is an interest of ours - facebook has globally and this is an interest of ours is- facebook has globally and this is an interest of ours is a - is an interest of ours is a global— is an interest of ours is a global news— is an interest of ours is al global news organisation. languages— global news organisation. languages spoken - global news organisation. languages spoken by - global news organisation. i languages spoken by huge swathes— languages spoken by huge swathes of— languages spoken by huge swathes of the _ languages spoken by huge swathes of the world, - languages spoken by huge . swathes of the world, arabic, hindi, — swathes of the world, arabic, hindi, urdu, _ swathes of the world, arabic, hindi, urdu, past— swathes of the world, arabic, hindi, urdu, pastjune- swathes of the world, arabic, hindi, urdu, pastjune in- hindi, urdu, pastjune in afghanistan, _ hindi, urdu, pastjune in afghanistan, these - hindi, urdu, pastjune in afghanistan, these are. hindi, urdu, pastjune in. afghanistan, these are huge numbers— afghanistan, these are huge numbers of— afghanistan, these are huge numbers of facebook- afghanistan, these are huge numbers of facebook usersl afghanistan, these are huge - numbers of facebook users they don't _ numbers of facebook users they don't have — numbers of facebook users they don't have enough— numbers of facebook users they don't have enough in— numbers of facebook users they don't have enough in country- don't have enough in country language _ don't have enough in country language support _ don't have enough in country. language support moderators. don't have enough in country- language support moderators. so much _ language support moderators. so much of— language support moderators. so much of the — language support moderators. so much of the misinformation, - much of the misinformation, hate — much of the misinformation, hate speech— much of the misinformation, hate speech and, _ much of the misinformation, hate speech and, you - much of the misinformation, hate speech and, you know, | hate speech and, you know, other— hate speech and, you know, other types— hate speech and, you know, other types of— hate speech and, you know, other types of harmful - hate speech and, you know, . other types of harmful content are just — other types of harmful content are just falling _ other types of harmful content are just falling through - other types of harmful content are just falling through the - are just falling through the cracks _ are just falling through the cracks ih— are just falling through the cracks. in most— are just falling through the cracks. in most of- are just falling through the cracks. in most of the - are just falling through the i cracks. in most of the world outside _ cracks. in most of the world outside of— cracks. in most of the world outside of the _ cracks. in most of the world outside of the us, - cracks. in most of the world outside of the us, and - cracks. in most of the world outside of the us, and in. cracks. in most of the world i outside of the us, and in fact there — outside of the us, and in fact there was— outside of the us, and in fact there was a _ outside of the us, and in fact there was a number- outside of the us, and in fact there was a number of- outside of the us, and in fact there was a number of one i outside of the us, and in factj there was a number of one of there was a number of one of the documents _ there was a number of one of the documents that _ there was a number of one of the documents that said - there was a number of one of the documents that said the i the documents that said the company— the documents that said the company allocated - the documents that said the company allocated 87% - the documents that said the company allocated 87% of. the documents that said the i company allocated 87% of its budget — company allocated 87% of its budget for— company allocated 87% of its budget for developing - company allocated 87% of its budget for developing its - budget for developing its misinformation— budget for developing its misinformation detection algorithms— misinformation detection algorithms to _ misinformation detection algorithms to the - misinformation detection algorithms to the us - misinformation detection algorithms to the us in l misinformation detection - algorithms to the us in 2020. 13% to— algorithms to the us in 2020. 13% to the _ algorithms to the us in 2020. 13% to the entire _ algorithms to the us in 2020. 13% to the entire rest - algorithms to the us in 2020. 13% to the entire rest of- algorithms to the us in 2020. 13% to the entire rest of the l 13% to the entire rest of the world — 13% to the entire rest of the world for— 13% to the entire rest of the world. for me _ 13% to the entire rest of the world. for me that - 13% to the entire rest of the world. for me that was - 13% to the entire rest of the i world. for me that was kind of one of— world. for me that was kind of one of the _ world. for me that was kind of one of the big _ world. for me that was kind of one of the big takeaways, - world. for me that was kind of one of the big takeaways, and| one of the big takeaways, and the fact— one of the big takeaways, and the fact that _ one of the big takeaways, and the fact that l _ one of the big takeaways, and the fact that i don't _ one of the big takeaways, and the fact that i don't really- the fact that i don't really understand _ the fact that i don't really understand how- the fact that i don't really understand how their- the fact that i don't really| understand how their own algorithms— understand how their own algorithms work. - understand how their own algorithms work. there i understand how their own i algorithms work. there were documents _ algorithms work. there were documents in there - algorithms work. there were documents in there that - algorithms work. there were . documents in there that showed that when— documents in there that showed that when they _ documents in there that showed that when they were _ documents in there that showed that when they were shown - documents in there that showed that when they were shown less| that when they were shown less political — that when they were shown less political content _ that when they were shown less political content compared - that when they were shown less political content compared to i political content compared to men — political content compared to men but _ political content compared to men but they— political content compared to men but they did _ political content compared to men but they did not - political content compared to men but they did not really l men but they did not really know — men but they did not really know why _ men but they did not really know why. also _ men but they did not really know why. also said - men but they did not really know why. also said that l men but they did not really - know why. also said that there was certainly _ know why. also said that there was certainly a _ know why. also said that there was certainly a major - know why. also said that there was certainly a major systemicj was certainly a major systemic biases— was certainly a major systemic biases based _ was certainly a major systemic biases based on— was certainly a major systemic biases based on the _ was certainly a major systemic biases based on the rates- was certainly a major systemic biases based on the rates of. biases based on the rates of different— biases based on the rates of different users— biases based on the rates of different users and - biases based on the rates of different users and that - biases based on the rates of. different users and that people who share _ different users and that people who share frequently— different users and that people who share frequently are - different users and that peoplel who share frequently are shown more _ who share frequently are shown more in — who share frequently are shown more in the _ who share frequently are shown more in the news _ who share frequently are shown more in the news feed - who share frequently are shown more in the news feed rankings| more in the news feed rankings and certain— more in the news feed rankings and certain races— more in the news feed rankings and certain races are _ and certain races are prioritised _ and certain races are prioritised over- and certain races are i prioritised over others and certain races are - prioritised over others in terms _ prioritised over others in terms of— prioritised over others in terms of their— prioritised over others in terms of their speech i prioritised over others in. terms of their speech being amplified _ terms of their speech being amplified. the _ terms of their speech being amplified. the did - terms of their speech being amplified. the did not - terms of their speech being| amplified. the did not know what — amplified. the did not know what that— amplified. the did not know what that bias _ amplified. the did not know what that bias look - amplified. the did not know what that bias look like - amplified. the did not know what that bias look like or. amplified. the did not know. what that bias look like or how to fix _ what that bias look like or how to fix it — what that bias look like or how to fix it. ., ., ., to fix it. you mentioned hate seech to fix it. you mentioned hate speech and _ to fix it. you mentioned hate speech and we _ to fix it. you mentioned hate speech and we were - to fix it. you mentioned hate speech and we were not - to fix it. you mentioned hate speech and we were not able to fix it. you mentioned hate i speech and we were not able to get facebook on a programme but they have released a statement in relation to the criticisms. with regards to hate speech they said they have built teams with expertise on issues such as human rights. and that they do have industry—leading processes for reviewing and prioritising countries with the highest risk of off—line harm and violence. if we go back to the mechanics of how this all worked, emily, and has been a very slick operation in terms of how it came together. who is backing frances haugen? i did some reporting _ backing frances haugen? i did some reporting this _ backing frances haugen? i c c some reporting this week of some reporting this week of some of the money behind her. there is no indication about anything about this was an authentic or inorganic. she was working at facebook, she has been clear that she spent a long time preparing to bring documents out of the company, but as soon ? she went public she revealed her identity on a 60 minutes episode that was one of the most widely watched episodes in the show�*s history. that's been a lot of people came out of the woodwork to help and support her. the whole time she has been working with an organisation called whistle—blower aid they said that since going forward with her they have gotten attention from a lot of big donors. they are now able to pay for a lot of her expenses. and beyond that, the founder of ebay has come out and offered a lot of support for her. he is a billionaire, he has spent a lot of recent years bankrolling anti—big tech efforts. he has given millions of dollars overall to advocacy groups and digital rights groups. so basically his philanthropic group is running her government and press relations in europe. he previously did give money to whistle—blower aid and has pledged that he will continue to support her in many different ways including travel expenses and including amplifying her message through amplifying her message through a lot of his big organisations. so he's only one of many. just to clarify. _ so he's only one of many. just to clarify. she _ so he's only one of many. just to clarify, she has _ so he's only one of many. just to clarify, she has not - so he's only one of many. just to clarify, she has not said publicly that he is backing haugen. but they don't specifically comment on this case. emily, what have facebook said in response to the slew of stories? they keep coming and coming. stories? they keep coming and comin. _ .,. , stories? they keep coming and cominu. .,, stories? they keep coming and cominu. ., coming. facebook has taken a very defensive _ coming. facebook has taken a very defensive posture - coming. facebook has taken a very defensive posture in - very defensive posture in response to all of this. as spoken to a lot of people this week that say companies in crisis have choices that they can make. they can either make structural change, they can apologise. facebook has chosen that will not be their approach, they say we are proud of what we have done, we are a company that tries to do good. we have invested more in trust and safety than our rivals. and we are being mischaracterized in the press. and he said all of this amounts to basically a coordinated smear campaign, said mark zuckerberg. and that it will dis— incentivize some kind of similar research in the future. as this negative press continues may be able take a different tact but for now they are not going to apologise when they are being attacked.- they are being attacked. three of my panel — they are being attacked. three of my panel all _ they are being attacked. three of my panel all come - they are being attacked. three of my panel all come from - they are being attacked. three l of my panel all come from paper as part of this consortium, but surely facebook do have a point here. is this a case of the old media going after new media? facebook is still the new kid on the block and they're not even 20 years old yet? it’s even 20 years old yet? it's hard to because _ even 20 years old yet? it's hard to because of - even 20 years old yet? it's hard to because of the new kid on the — hard to because of the new kid on the block— hard to because of the new kid on the block when _ hard to because of the new kid on the block when you - hard to because of the new kid on the block when you look- hard to because of the new kid on the block when you look ati on the block when you look at the scale _ on the block when you look at the scale of. _ on the block when you look at the scale of, even _ on the block when you look at the scale of, even if- on the block when you look at the scale of, even if we - on the block when you look at the scale of, even if we don'tl the scale of, even if we don't call— the scale of, even if we don't call that— the scale of, even if we don't call that harm _ the scale of, even if we don't call that harm the _ the scale of, even if we don't call that harm the scale - the scale of, even if we don't call that harm the scale of, l call that harm the scale of, that— call that harm the scale of, that we _ call that harm the scale of, that we see _ call that harm the scale of, that we see in _ call that harm the scale of, that we see in terms - call that harm the scale of, that we see in terms of - call that harm the scale of, | that we see in terms of who they— that we see in terms of who they touch _ that we see in terms of who they touch globally. - that we see in terms of who they touch globally. i'm - that we see in terms of who they touch globally. i'm notj they touch globally. i'm not quite — they touch globally. i'm not quite sure _ they touch globally. i'm not quite sure we _ they touch globally. i'm not quite sure we even- they touch globally. i'm not quite sure we even have - they touch globally. i'm not quite sure we even have a i quite sure we even have a quarter— quite sure we even have a quarter of— quite sure we even have a quarter of that _ quite sure we even have a quarter of that reach - quite sure we even have a quarter of that reach even quite sure we even have a . quarter of that reach even at the consortium _ quarter of that reach even at the consortium with - quarter of that reach even at the consortium with 17 - quarter of that reach even at the consortium with 17 new. the consortium with 17 new organisations. _ the consortium with 17 new organisations. there - the consortium with 17 new organisations. there were i the consortium with 17 newi organisations. there were a efforts— organisations. there were a efforts from _ organisations. there were a efforts from facebook- efforts from facebook researchers _ efforts from facebook researchers to - efforts from facebook researchers to try - efforts from facebook researchers to try and efforts from facebook- researchers to try and wrangle with _ researchers to try and wrangle with ways _ researchers to try and wrangle with ways to _ researchers to try and wrangle with ways to solve _ researchers to try and wrangle with ways to solve these - researchers to try and wrangle j with ways to solve these really extremely _ with ways to solve these really extremely thorny _ with ways to solve these really extremely thorny issues - with ways to solve these really extremely thorny issues like . extremely thorny issues like ethnic— extremely thorny issues like ethnic violence _ extremely thorny issues like ethnic violence and - extremely thorny issues like ethnic violence and civil- extremely thorny issues like ethnic violence and civil war| ethnic violence and civil war commit _ ethnic violence and civil war commit gender— ethnic violence and civil war commit gender issues, - ethnic violence and civil war - commit gender issues, religious inflammatory— commit gender issues, religious inflammatory material. - commit gender issues, religious inflammatory material. and - commit gender issues, religious inflammatory material. and in l inflammatory material. and in each _ inflammatory material. and in each context _ inflammatory material. and in each context this _ inflammatory material. and in each context this is _ inflammatory material. and in each context this is so - inflammatory material. and inl each context this is so complex and different— each context this is so complex and different and _ each context this is so complex and different and unique. - each context this is so complex and different and unique. the i and different and unique. the company— and different and unique. the company is _ and different and unique. the company is based _ and different and unique. the company is based in - and different and unique. the company is based in silicon. company is based in silicon valley— company is based in silicon valley in— company is based in silicon valley in the _ company is based in silicon valley in the us. _ company is based in silicon valley in the us. they - company is based in siliconl valley in the us. they don't have — valley in the us. they don't have that _ valley in the us. they don't have that sense _ valley in the us. they don't have that sense of- valley in the us. they don't have that sense of context. valley in the us. they don't i have that sense of context and every — have that sense of context and every similar_ have that sense of context and every similar country. - have that sense of context and every similar country. so - have that sense of context and every similar country. so there were _ every similar country. so there were efforts _ every similar country. so there were efforts to _ every similar country. so there were efforts to try _ every similar country. so there were efforts to try and - were efforts to try and understand _ were efforts to try and understand this - were efforts to try and i understand this better. were efforts to try and - understand this better. what is clear— understand this better. what is clear from _ understand this better. what is clear from the _ understand this better. what is clear from the documents - understand this better. what is clear from the documents is. clear from the documents is that— clear from the documents is that these _ clear from the documents is that these efforts _ clear from the documents is that these efforts have - clear from the documents is| that these efforts have been stymied _ that these efforts have been stymied internally. - that these efforts have been stymied internally. even- that these efforts have been. stymied internally. even when researchers _ stymied internally. even when researchers are _ stymied internally. even when researchers are saying - stymied internally. even when researchers are saying look, l researchers are saying look, there — researchers are saying look, there are _ researchers are saying look, there are problems- researchers are saying look, there are problems that - researchers are saying look, there are problems that we i researchers are saying look, i there are problems that we are trying — there are problems that we are trying to— there are problems that we are trying to show— there are problems that we are trying to show you, _ there are problems that we are trying to show you, that - there are problems that we are trying to show you, that things| trying to show you, that things were _ trying to show you, that things were hot— trying to show you, that things were not done _ trying to show you, that things were not done about _ trying to show you, that things were not done about it. - trying to show you, that things were not done about it. i- trying to show you, that things were not done about it. i have| were not done about it. i have spoken— were not done about it. i have spoken to _ were not done about it. i have spoken to another— spoken to another whistle—blower. spoken to another i whistle—blower who spoken to another- whistle—blower who came spoken to another— whistle—blower who came out a few month _ whistle—blower who came out a few month ago _ whistle—blower who came out a few month ago and _ whistle—blower who came out a few month ago and she - whistle—blower who came out a few month ago and she had - few month ago and she had uncovered _ few month ago and she had uncovered several- few month ago and she had| uncovered several instances few month ago and she had i uncovered several instances of political — uncovered several instances of political manipulation - uncovered several instances of political manipulation on - uncovered several instances of political manipulation on the l political manipulation on the platform _ political manipulation on the platform in— political manipulation on the platform in places _ political manipulation on the platform in places like - platform in places like honduras— platform in places like honduras for- platform in places like| honduras for example. platform in places like - honduras for example. she thought— honduras for example. she thought it _ honduras for example. she thought it was _ honduras for example. she thought it was really - honduras for example. she i thought it was really difficult to get — thought it was really difficult to get anyone _ thought it was really difficult to get anyone to _ thought it was really difficult to get anyone to take - thought it was really difficult to get anyone to take any i to get anyone to take any action— to get anyone to take any action and _ to get anyone to take any action and it _ to get anyone to take any action and it just - to get anyone to take any action and it just sort - to get anyone to take any action and itjust sort of. action and it just sort of fizzled _ action and it just sort of fizzled out _ action and it just sort of fizzled out on _ action and it just sort of fizzled out on that - action and it just sort of fizzled out on that she i action and itjust sort of. fizzled out on that she did something _ fizzled out on that she did something about - fizzled out on that she did something about it. - fizzled out on that she didj something about it. there fizzled out on that she did . something about it. there is fizzled out on that she did - something about it. there is an internal— something about it. there is an internal lack— something about it. there is an internal lack of, _ something about it. there is an internal lack of, or— something about it. there is an internal lack of, or an - internal lack of, or an internat— internal lack of, or an internal apathy- internal lack of, or an internal apathy eveni internal lack of, or an - internal apathy even though there — internal apathy even though there have _ internal apathy even though there have been _ internal apathy even though there have been good—faith| there have been good—faith efforts— there have been good—faith efforts from _ there have been good—faith efforts from researchers . there have been good—faith efforts from researchers in| there have been good—faith i efforts from researchers in the company — efforts from researchers in the company to _ efforts from researchers in the company to understand - efforts from researchers in the company to understand what l efforts from researchers in the| company to understand what is going _ company to understand what is going on— company to understand what is going on better~ _ company to understand what is going on better.— company to understand what is going on better. facebook would sa their going on better. facebook would say their technology _ going on better. facebook would say their technology is _ going on better. facebook would say their technology is having . say their technology is having a big impact in reducing how much hate speech people see on their platform. they said that they use the technology to proactively detect it and routed to reviewers and remove it when it violates their policies. lauren goode senior writer at wired says you are a lover a plot twist, can it get any worse for facebook? i lover a plot twist, can it get any worse for facebook? i think we have yet _ any worse for facebook? i think we have yet to _ any worse for facebook? i think we have yet to see _ any worse for facebook? i think we have yet to see the - any worse for facebook? i think we have yet to see the plot - we have yet to see the plot twist~ — we have yet to see the plot twist~ i_ we have yet to see the plot twist. i don't think it bodes twist. idon't think it bodes wett— twist. idon't think it bodes well for— twist. i don't think it bodes well for facebook but i don't know— well for facebook but i don't know how impact much we will be seeing _ know how impact much we will be seeing right away. as emily mentioned facebookjust mentioned facebook just reported the mentioned facebookjust reported the third quarter earnings a few days ago, the company— earnings a few days ago, the company is a shockingly still making _ company is a shockingly still making money, and any concerns about— making money, and any concerns about revenue came from this side _ about revenue came from this side of— about revenue came from this side of targeted advertising. because there's been changes that apple made to its operative system on phones were timiting _ operative system on phones were limiting some of the targeted advertising that people see on advertising that people see on a platform like facebook. consumers can now opt out. facehook— consumers can now opt out. facebook warned of that. facebook warned of that. facebook has had real concerns or should — facebook has had real concerns or should have real concerns about — or should have real concerns about whether or not younger users — about whether or not younger users are _ about whether or not younger users are adding onto the services _ users are adding onto the services the way some of us etders — services the way some of us elders have done. i think there's— elders have done. i think there's other concerns that facebook may have, i think when it comes — facebook may have, i think when it comes to— facebook may have, i think when it comes to the facebook files or facebook papers one of the employees said in the document said they— employees said in the document said they don't believe that history— said they don't believe that history is going to look back kindty— history is going to look back kindty on _ history is going to look back kindly on facebook. i do believe _ kindly on facebook. i do believe that history it's going to happen now. history is happening now, but i think it is stilt— happening now, but i think it is still going to be a little witd _ is still going to be a little wild before we see the long—term impact for these papers _ long-term impact for these -a ers. ~ long-term impact for these na-ers. . , long-term impact for these .a ers, . , ., ., papers. we will 'ust have to sit back and _ papers. we willjust have to sit back and see _ papers. we willjust have to sit back and see how- papers. we willjust have to sit back and see how the . papers. we willjust have to l sit back and see how the plot unfolds whilst that is the facebook problems in the real world and they are also making bid moves into an alternative world. the metaverse. this is a concept that it keeps cropping up, big tech keep telling us about the future, facebook have announced 10,000 newjobs announced 10,000 new jobs working just announced 10,000 newjobs working just on this. but lauren, what is the metaverse? people listening at home going meta what?— meta what? what is the metaverse? _ meta what? what is the metaverse? it - meta what? what is the metaverse? it believe l meta what? what is the metaverse? it believe it depends on who you ask. if you think— depends on who you ask. if you think about the word of the universe _ think about the word of the universe mean like a singly universe, _ universe mean like a singly universe, the metaverse is supposed to somehow transcend that~ _ supposed to somehow transcend that the — supposed to somehow transcend that. the most consistent description i've heard from different people if that's a kind — different people if that's a kind of— different people if that's a kind of successor to the mobile internet~ — kind of successor to the mobile internet. the way that 20 something years ago we are experiencing the internet primarily to the web now we all have _ primarily to the web now we all have mobile phones, smartphones in our— have mobile phones, smartphones in our hands and feet metaverse will be _ in our hands and feet metaverse will be some next level or next layer _ will be some next level or next layer of — will be some next level or next layer of that. where there is this— layer of that. where there is this kind _ layer of that. where there is this kind of pervasive connectivity in our lives. which _ connectivity in our lives. which may sound thrilling to some — which may sound thrilling to some people that may be alarming to others. where we feel alarming to others. where we feet a — alarming to others. where we feel a sense of presence with the people around us. right now as we _ the people around us. right now as we are — the people around us. right now as we are doing this radio and video— as we are doing this radio and video presentation, we are on zoom, — video presentation, we are on zoom, looking at each other on 2d zoom, looking at each other on 20 fiat — zoom, looking at each other on 2d flat screens and in some kind — 2d flat screens and in some kind of— 2d flat screens and in some kind of metaverse world we would — kind of metaverse world we would feel a little bit more present— would feel a little bit more present with each other as we interact— present with each other as we interact and move from space to space _ interact and move from space to sace. . ., . , interact and move from space to sace. . , ., , space. nicola, this does sound all 'ust a space. nicola, this does sound alljust a bit — space. nicola, this does sound alljust a bit dystopian, - alljust a bit dystopian, doesn't it? it alljust a bit dystopian, doesn't it?— alljust a bit dystopian, doesn't it? , . doesn't it? it is true that the metaverse — doesn't it? it is true that the metaverse did _ doesn't it? it is true that the metaverse did come - doesn't it? it is true that the metaverse did come from i metaverse did come from dystopian science fiction, i'm a max of science fiction geek as well as a social scientist. i'm interested in how technology and people interact but snow crash is the origin of the meta— verse and i described as the sd internet. it's not just the additional bed, i think there is the intersection with the real world that we need to think about as well. typically people to think of the metaverse as a snow crash, ready player one, the ultimate dystopian vision would be the matrix as well.— matrix as well. this is the problem. _ matrix as well. this is the problem, it's _ matrix as well. this is the problem, it's on - matrix as well. this is the problem, it's on the - matrix as well. this is the l problem, it's on the science geeks pushing us toward the new future? , ., ., ., future? trying to move from that zd future? trying to move from that 20 static, _ future? trying to move from that 20 static, | _ future? trying to move from that 2d static, i guess - that 20 static, i guess spectator sports that we have been doing a lot of at the moment because we have been staring at 20 screens for a very long time during the pandemic. moving into a sd space. the exciting bet is that it could be the new internet, it's enabled by technologies like virtual reality and augmented reality and mixed reality. those are three slightly different technologies as well. some of which involve wearing glasses, i think that's from a more social science uses perspective i think that glasses bit can be one of the steps that they have got to get over run people adjusting to virtual reality and attend to go on the top of the bus. if you put that headset on me i do tend to vomit. that will get better and there's a big fashion brand recently that just launched a pair of glasses which are augmented reality. rather than being completely concealed in a headset you can ashley starts to merge reality and the digital world as well. there's lots of applications that we have been looking at things like health care using that kind of application. we can start to see some quite exciting examples of things that we can do with that technology and then mixed reality is where it is more the star trek vision. the hollow deck type of thing and were you bring and there's this word that describes the physical world and digital world start to interact. if i pick up a pencil in the physical world respond? what of challenges creating this metaverse as well as connecting probably multiple metaverse ands together. and enabling us as users to navigate through those multiple worlds in a very consistent way. worlds in a very consistent wa . ., . worlds in a very consistent wa , ., ., , worlds in a very consistent wa . ., . , way. you have given us some enticin: way. you have given us some enticing glimpses, _ way. you have given us some enticing glimpses, but - way. you have given us some enticing glimpses, but let's i enticing glimpses, but let's try and pin down exactly what the metaverse will be. lauren, some of our listeners may know, they remember this seems, that was a video game in which you had a little digital characters and you can decide what they wear, what they ate, what kind of house they lived in, whether they even had a shower. i remember playing that. it is the metaverse similar to that? i think you are touching on something that is important. which — something that is important. which is _ something that is important. which is that the metaverse can be expressed through a virtual world — be expressed through a virtual world such as simcity or the sims. — world such as simcity or the sims. and _ world such as simcity or the sims, and some people also say second — sims, and some people also say second life is something that would — second life is something that would be considered part of the metaverse. but is not necessarily have to be something that is in that space _ something that is in that space. as nicola also said it could — space. as nicola also said it could be _ space. as nicola also said it could be something that kind of exists _ could be something that kind of exists partly in your physical world — exists partly in your physical world around you and partly in the digital world. world around you and partly in the digitalworld. i world around you and partly in the digital world. i also think that— the digital world. i also think that what you're describing or asking — that what you're describing or asking are these silos, we hear technologists prognosticate right — technologists prognosticate right now about the meta— verse and say — right now about the meta— verse and say it's— right now about the meta— verse and say it's going to be its vast — and say it's going to be its vast expanse of virtual experiences were people will connect, _ experiences were people will connect, there will be interoperability, it will be open _ interoperability, it will be open but what we are actually seeing — open but what we are actually seeing is _ open but what we are actually seeing is now a lot of these companies try to elbow their way— companies try to elbow their way into— companies try to elbow their way into the meta— verse and stake — way into the meta— verse and stake their claim in it. facebook of course is one can be mentioned that off the top. i wouldn't be surprised if we iwouldn't be surprised if we saw— i wouldn't be surprised if we saw google make a more serious ptay saw google make a more serious play in _ saw google make a more serious play in the — saw google make a more serious play in the metaverse. apple made — play in the metaverse. apple made a — play in the metaverse. apple made a call at that because appte — made a call at that because apple tries not to call things super— apple tries not to call things super nerdy terms but is deafly working — super nerdy terms but is deafly working on ar solutions. there's— working on ar solutions. there's microsoft, pok mon go, fortnight — there's microsoft, pok mon go, fortnight and what we are seeing _ fortnight and what we are seeing are these companies that exist— seeing are these companies that exist in— seeing are these companies that exist in our lives, so present in our— exist in our lives, so present in our lives _ exist in our lives, so present in our lives through their technology services. many of them — technology services. many of them are _ technology services. many of them are not interoperable. many— them are not interoperable. many of— them are not interoperable. many of them have containers or waited _ many of them have containers or walled gardens where we are supposed to live and do our work — supposed to live and do our work. and do our connecting with— work. and do our connecting with other people. and so i think— with other people. and so i think the _ with other people. and so i think the promise right now theoretically is that it's been very— theoretically is that it's been very open and that people just kind of— very open and that people just kind of live in this next layer of the — kind of live in this next layer of the internet. but in reality these — of the internet. but in reality these companies want to make money— these companies want to make money off of this. want to build — money off of this. want to build applications on top of this— build applications on top of this and _ build applications on top of this and they are going to do, i this and they are going to do, ithink. — this and they are going to do, i think, what they can to make you use — i think, what they can to make you use their services over others _ you use their services over others. if— you use their services over others. �* , ., . others. if i'm right you have some doubts _ others. if i'm right you have some doubts about - others. if i'm right you have some doubts about this, - others. if i'm right you have i some doubts about this, right, the metaverse? i some doubts about this, right, the metaverse?— some doubts about this, right, the metaverse? i do have some concerns i _ the metaverse? i do have some concerns i would _ the metaverse? i do have some concerns i would say. _ the metaverse? i do have some concerns i would say. primarily| concerns i would say. primarily ithink— concerns i would say. primarily i think there's a real barrier to i think there's a real barrier tqust _ i think there's a real barrier tojust people why i think there's a real barrier to just people why the adopting it. to just people why the adopting it so _ to just people why the adopting it. so long as there is a proponent of it that relies on heads — proponent of it that relies on heads up _ proponent of it that relies on heads up displays was that the vr headset or ar glasses, i just— vr headset or ar glasses, i just think it's going to take a lot just think it's going to take a tot and — just think it's going to take a tot and is— just think it's going to take a lot and is going to have to be, going — lot and is going to have to be, going to — lot and is going to have to be, going to have to be advancements in that technology for people to adopt it widely. go to— for people to adopt it widely. go to be _ for people to adopt it widely. go to be applications where people _ go to be applications where people canjoin from their 2d screens— people canjoin from their 2d screens and enter the metaverse guote _ screens and enter the metaverse quote unquote, but what technologists are pressing right— technologists are pressing right now is the totally virtual— right now is the totally virtual immersive experiences. it virtual immersive experiences. it feels — virtual immersive experiences. it feels like vr and ar in their— it feels like vr and ar in their teenage phase. as much as we are _ their teenage phase. as much as we are disfiguring ourselves out and _ we are disfiguring ourselves out and considering changing our names the metaverse is a new— our names the metaverse is a new name _ our names the metaverse is a new name change for what technologists have been pushing already— technologists have been pushing already for decades at this point _ already for decades at this point. whether concern isjust about— point. whether concern isjust about inclusivity in the metaverse. a lot of the conversations we have heard so far, conversations we have heard so far. some — conversations we have heard so far, some of the most prominent voices— far, some of the most prominent voices around the metaverse, this panel not included, happened to be people who identify as men whether science fiction— identify as men whether science fiction writers or analysts, or people — fiction writers or analysts, or people like mark zuckerberg or the founder of second life. and ithink— the founder of second life. and i think it's — the founder of second life. and i think it's the one you have this— i think it's the one you have this sort— i think it's the one you have this sort of homogenous body of people _ this sort of homogenous body of people who are creating this next — people who are creating this next layer of the internet you are setting yourself up for having _ are setting yourself up for having an experience that does not necessarily apply to everyone or consider everyone. and i_ everyone or consider everyone. and i think _ everyone or consider everyone. and i think right now the answer— and i think right now the answer to that is, well, don't worry— answer to that is, well, don't worry we _ answer to that is, well, don't worry we are designing avatars that reflect what real people took — that reflect what real people look like. and that's great but does — look like. and that's great but does not _ look like. and that's great but does not necessarily consider the harms or potential harms or social— the harms or potential harms or social dynamics that would exist — social dynamics that would exist for _ social dynamics that would exist for people who come from underrepresented or marginalised groups who deserve to have _ marginalised groups who deserve to have the same safe experience and the internet as the people who are creating it. madhumita murgia european tech correspondent from the financial times, what do you think of the metaverse? i’m financial times, what do you think of the metaverse? i'm in the office _ think of the metaverse? i'm in the office for— think of the metaverse? i'm in the office for the _ think of the metaverse? i'm in the office for the first - think of the metaverse? i'm in the office for the first time - the office for the first time in a — the office for the first time in a white _ the office for the first time in a while and _ the office for the first time in a while and corralling i in a while and corralling opinions _ in a while and corralling opinions from _ in a while and corralling opinions from my- in a while and corralling opinions from my desk. j in a while and corralling - opinions from my desk. talking to my— opinions from my desk. talking to my two — opinions from my desk. talking to my two editors _ opinions from my desk. talking to my two editors about - opinions from my desk. talking to my two editors about this. . to my two editors about this. we were _ to my two editors about this. we were saying, _ to my two editors about this. we were saying, you - to my two editors about this. we were saying, you know, i to my two editors about this. i we were saying, you know, we throw— we were saying, you know, we throw this _ we were saying, you know, we throw this term _ we were saying, you know, we throw this term out _ we were saying, you know, we throw this term out as - we were saying, you know, we throw this term out as if - we were saying, you know, we throw this term out as if it's i throw this term out as if it's this— throw this term out as if it's this futuristic— throw this term out as if it's this futuristic thing, - throw this term out as if it's this futuristic thing, but i this futuristic thing, but we are already— this futuristic thing, but we are already on _ this futuristic thing, but we are already on the - this futuristic thing, but we are already on the path i this futuristic thing, but we are already on the path to. are already on the path to this _ are already on the path to this i_ are already on the path to this. i know— are already on the path to this. i know the _ are already on the path toi this. i know the metaverse are already on the path to i this. i know the metaverse is supposed _ this. i know the metaverse is supposed to— this. i know the metaverse is supposed to be _ supposed to be i three—dimensional supposed to be - three—dimensional and supposed to be — three—dimensional and augmented but what _ three—dimensional and augmented but what it — three—dimensional and augmented but what it is— three—dimensional and augmented but what it is really— three—dimensional and augmented but what it is really is _ three—dimensional and augmented but what it is really is as _ but what it is really is as lauren _ but what it is really is as lauren said _ but what it is really is as lauren said it's - but what it is really is as i lauren said it's interconnected in a kind — lauren said it's interconnected in a kind of— lauren said it's interconnected in a kind of world _ lauren said it's interconnected in a kind of world where - lauren said it's interconnected in a kind of world where we i lauren said it's interconnected in a kind of world where we do all things— in a kind of world where we do all things online. _ in a kind of world where we do all things online. over- in a kind of world where we do all things online. over the i all things online. over the last— all things online. over the last year— all things online. over the last year and _ all things online. over the last year and a _ all things online. over the last year and a half- all things online. over the last year and a half we i all things online. 0ver thej last year and a half we are doing _ last year and a half we are doing att— last year and a half we are doing all things _ last year and a half we are doing all things online i doing all things online atready~ _ doing all things online already. living - doing all things online i already. living together virtuatty _ already. living together virtually. we, _ already. living together virtually. we, not- already. living together virtually. we, notjust l already. living together. virtually. we, notjust for entertainment, _ virtually. we, notjust for entertainment, but- virtually. we, notjust for entertainment, but for. virtually. we, notjust for. entertainment, but for work virtually. we, notjust for- entertainment, but for work as wett~ _ entertainment, but for work as wett~ and — entertainment, but for work as wett~ and we _ entertainment, but for work as well. and we are _ entertainment, but for work as well. and we are already i entertainment, but for work as well. and we are already at i well. and we are already at that — well. and we are already at that stage _ well. and we are already at that stage where _ well. and we are already at i that stage where behaviourally we understand _ that stage where behaviourally we understand what _ that stage where behaviourally we understand what it - that stage where behaviourally we understand what it would . we understand what it would mean — we understand what it would mean so _ we understand what it would mean so i— we understand what it would mean. so i think— we understand what it would mean. so i think the - we understand what it would mean. so i think the jump. we understand what it would mean. so i think the jump is| we understand what it would i mean. so i think the jump is a bit smatter— mean. so i think the jump is a bit smaller for— mean. so i think the jump is a bit smaller for me _ mean. so i think the jump is a bit smaller for me than - mean. so i think the jump is a bit smaller for me than it i bit smaller for me than it would _ bit smaller for me than it would have _ bit smaller for me than it would have looked - bit smaller for me than it would have looked like i bit smaller for me than it i would have looked like two years — would have looked like two years ago _ would have looked like two years ago and _ would have looked like two years ago. and really- would have looked like two years ago. and really the i would have looked like two i years ago. and really the next step— years ago. and really the next step is— years ago. and really the next step is making _ years ago. and really the next step is making it— years ago. and really the next step is making it all— step is making it all interoperable. i step is making it all interoperable. even step is making it all. interoperable. even if step is making it all- interoperable. even if that's not in — interoperable. even if that's not in 30, _ interoperable. even if that's not in sd, can _ interoperable. even if that's not in sd, can i _ interoperable. even if that's not in sd, can i take - interoperable. even if that's not in sd, can i take all- interoperable. even if that's not in sd, can i take all of. interoperable. even if that's i not in sd, can i take all of my social— not in sd, can i take all of my social graph _ not in sd, can i take all of my social graph data _ not in sd, can i take all of my social graph data from - not in sd, can i take all of my. social graph data from facebook and take — social graph data from facebook and take it — social graph data from facebook and take it with _ social graph data from facebook and take it with me _ social graph data from facebook and take it with me somewherel and take it with me somewhere else? _ and take it with me somewhere else? rather— and take it with me somewhere else? rather than _ and take it with me somewhere else? rather than having i and take it with me somewhere else? rather than having all. and take it with me somewhere else? rather than having all of| else? rather than having all of these — else? rather than having all of these separate _ else? rather than having all of these separate kind _ else? rather than having all of these separate kind of- else? rather than having all of these separate kind of units? i these separate kind of units? can i— these separate kind of units? can iiust _ these separate kind of units? can iiust tive _ these separate kind of units? can ijust live one _ these separate kind of units? can ijust live one life - can ijust live one life ontine? _ can ijust live one life online? i— can ijust live one life online? i think- can ijust live one life online? i think that i can ijust live one life i online? i think that will be the — online? i think that will be the first— online? i think that will be the first step _ online? i think that will be the first step of _ online? i think that will be the first step of this - the first step of this metaverse - the first step of this metaverse and i the first step of this metaverse and then the first step of this i metaverse and then we the first step of this - metaverse and then we will the first step of this _ metaverse and then we will kind of go _ metaverse and then we will kind of go on — metaverse and then we will kind of go on to— metaverse and then we will kind of go on to the _ metaverse and then we will kind of go on to the issues _ metaverse and then we will kind of go on to the issues around i of go on to the issues around glasses— of go on to the issues around glasses and _ of go on to the issues around glasses and headsets - of go on to the issues around glasses and headsets and i glasses and headsets and things _ glasses and headsets and things i— glasses and headsets and things. ithink— glasses and headsets and things. i think we - glasses and headsets and things. i think we are i glasses and headsets and i things. i think we are closer than — things. i think we are closer than we _ things. i think we are closer than we think. _ things. i think we are closer than we think.— things. i think we are closer than we think. thank you very much, than we think. thank you very much. we _ than we think. thank you very much, we could _ than we think. thank you very much, we could talk- than we think. thank you very much, we could talk about i than we think. thank you very | much, we could talk about this all day but that's all the time we have for now. thank you so much on my guests, the media show will be back at the same time next week. thanks for watching and goodbye. skies have cleared across some parts of the country and it's even dry out, but in other areas, it's rain again. the next weather front is currently moving into western parts of the uk, and the whole weekend will be very changeable. here's the satellite picture, and you can see lots of weather systems circling around the north atlantic, some of them moving in. this is the one that's over western parts of the uk right 110w. if it's raining where you are, it's as a result of this weather front, and you can see it here for the early hours of the morning. the rain will be heaviest around southwest scotland, wales and the southwest of england. some areas could be 20, s0, maybe a0 mm of rain. at the same time at seven a.m., it's dry in newcastle, lb and just about in london as well. watch the weather front moving into central part of the uk, and then pushes eastwards by late morning. the bulk of that rain is out in the north sea. it will be completely dry and there will be showers around, but certainly a lot more sunshine around the second half of the day. 15 in london, around 11 in belfast and glasgow. saturday night, a wing of opportunity for dry weather before the next area of low pressure sweeps in. worthy of a mention, it's the fact that the clocks go back early hours of sunday. here we go, sunday's weather map. here's the low pressure. a lot of isobars, which means there will be quite a strong wind. gale force winds, in fact. here's that band of rain in the morning. by the time we get to lunch time, the bulk of that rain is out in the north sea. it dries out, some areas around the irish sea, we will have showers. now the good news is for some of the trick—or—treaters, the skies will be clear enough and i think there'll be some dry weather around as well. but not completely dry, always a showers about. the forecast shows the weather will be changeable for the first half of the week, but towards the end, things should settle down. bye— bye. you are watching bbc news. i'm rich preston. 0ur you are watching bbc news. i'm rich preston. our top stories: pope francis calls a radical decisions and week, climate change summit in a special message for the bbc. translation: message for the bbc. tuna/mom- message for the bbc. translation: , . , , , translation: this crisis weighs in front of us _ translation: this crisis weighs in front of us radical— in front of us radical decisions that are not easy. but each hurdle also represents an opportunity that cannot be wasted. �* . an opportunity that cannot be wasted. . . ., , wasted. ahead of the sum the po -e wasted. ahead of the sum the pope also _ wasted. ahead of the sum the pope also held _ wasted. ahead of the sum the pope also held an _ wasted. ahead of the sum the pope also held an audience i wasted. ahead of the sum the i pope also held an audience with president biden, only the second catholic president in us history. as the row over post—brexit fishing rights escalates, francis is britain's credibility is on the line. and we visit the afghan city of jalalabad, ground zero in a deadly buddy for supremacy between the taliban forces and militants from the islamic state group.