new streams of lava threatening further disruption. now on bbc news it's time for the media show. hello. this week's keir starmer delivered his first speech to a packed in person at labour party conference. today we want to explore keir starmer his current relationship with the media. does he have the same level of newspaper backing that he tony blair for example enjoyed? to the newspaper still holds much sway of a public opinion anyway? and what about those new outlets that merge during jeremy corbyn his time with power shifting to the centre of the party, how do they see their roles now? let me introduce you to my guess. jane merrick is policy editor at the the media show newspaper. before that showers independent sunday. you've been on twitter today with the assessment of keir starmer speech to all your readers go to twitter or to the way for your in—depth analysis? i to twitter or to the way for your in-depth analysis? i was tweetin: your in-depth analysis? i was tweeting a — your in-depth analysis? i was tweeting a very _ your in-depth analysis? i was tweeting a very long - your in-depth analysis? i was tweeting a very long thread i your in-depth analysis? i was tweeting a very long thread it was a very long tweet a chilly so i ended up tweeted about 70 tweets. i guess it's a mix. the first take is about a few tweets as you speak but i'm a chilly going to be brightening a piece that's halfway part britain. about what is policy agenda is and whether that's enough to him to wind the next obviously there's a long way to go but are these policies that come in for the next election. erin bastoni is co—founder of the barnett media a left—wing media company. i've been looking at the navarro website, you've got an op—ed saying that keir starmer isjust as dishonest as keir starmer is just as dishonest as boris keir starmer isjust as dishonest as borisjohnson. dishonest as boris johnson. there is another headline, starmer breaks the rolls with “p starmer breaks the rolls with up is that the kind of dramatic statement there reason your readers go to your site and not the mainstream media?- readers go to your site and not the mainstream media? well, i would say _ the mainstream media? well, i would say it's — the mainstream media? well, i would say it's dramatic. - the mainstream media? well, i would say it's dramatic. the - would say it's dramatic. the first — would say it's dramatic. the first speech is an op—ed. people _ first speech is an op—ed. people have opinions. the thesis_ people have opinions. the thesis of— people have opinions. the thesis of that op—ed is available for anybody who wants to go _ available for anybody who wants to go and — available for anybody who wants to go and read it. in terms of our— to go and read it. in terms of our coverage no, reporting, we have _ our coverage no, reporting, we have reporters in terms of the first _ have reporters in terms of the first port — have reporters in terms of the first port of call for the peorrie _ first port of call for the people who consume our content it would — people who consume our content it would be an article generally it will be through a youtube channel. we have a show tonight _ youtube channel. we have a show tonight at — youtube channel. we have a show tonight at 7pm and our youtube channel— tonight at 7pm and our youtube channel which will look at the conference as well as other stories— conference as well as other stories that cross the day. we have — stories that cross the day. we have three of those a week. principally our footprint is audiovisual. that doesn't mean it's based — audiovisual. that doesn't mean it's based in twitter, increasingly at youtube and instagram. but we do try to cover— instagram. but we do try to cover multiple spaces, podcast, arctic— cover multiple spaces, podcast, arctic tools, explainers and video _ arctic tools, explainers and video. , . . ~ arctic tools, explainers and video. g ., . ,, , ., video. jack pete is the founder ofthe video. jack pete is the founder of the london _ video. jack pete is the founder of the london economic - video. jack pete is the founder of the london economic and i of the london economic and other london digital only outlook. icy you have a piece headlines brits are flooding petrol on facebook for quadruple the pump price. that highs into a survey that found nearly half of britain's hold the media most responsible for petrol stations running out of fuel. what he say to that, what you think? i fuel. what he say to that, what you think?— you think? i think there is obviously _ you think? i think there is obviously chaos _ you think? i think there is obviously chaos at - you think? i think there is obviously chaos at the - you think? i think there is - obviously chaos at the palms. we were _ obviously chaos at the palms. we were ticked _ obviously chaos at the palms. we were ticked off— obviously chaos at the palms. we were ticked off about - obviously chaos at the palms. we were ticked off about a i we were ticked off about a story— we were ticked off about a story about _ we were ticked off about a story about how _ we were ticked off about a story about how people . we were ticked off about a | story about how people are brazeniy _ story about how people are brazenly attempting - story about how people are brazenly attempting to - story about how people are brazenly attempting to sellj story about how people are - brazenly attempting to sell ten l of brazenly attempting to sell ten l of petrol _ brazenly attempting to sell ten l of petrol for _ brazenly attempting to sell ten l of petrol for 50 _ brazenly attempting to sell ten l of petrol for 50 quid. - brazenly attempting to sell ten l of petrol for 50 quid. if- brazenly attempting to sell ten l of petrol for 50 quid. if you l l of petrol for 50 quid. if you look— l of petrol for 50 quid. if you look at — l of petrol for 50 quid. if you look at pay— l of petrol for 50 quid. if you look at pay because - l of petrol for 50 quid. if you look at pay because of- l of petrol for 50 quid. if you look at pay because of the i look at pay because of the few prices — look at pay because of the few prices it's— look at pay because of the few prices it's down _ look at pay because of the few prices it's down to _ look at pay because of the few prices it's down to a _ look at pay because of the few prices it's down to a handful. prices it's down to a handful of - — prices it's down to a handful of — spiralled _ prices it's down to a handful of — spiralled into— prices it's down to a handful of — spiralled into a - prices it's down to a handful of — spiralled into a huge i of — spiralled into a huge story~ _ of — spiralled into a huge story. there's— of — spiralled into a huge story. there's no- of — spiralled into a huge story. there's no smokel of — spiralled into a huge - story. there's no smoke without fire _ story. there's no smoke without fire yes — story. there's no smoke without fire yes the _ story. there's no smoke without fire. yes the media _ story. there's no smoke without fire. yes the media has- story. there's no smoke without fire. yes the media has had - story. there's no smoke without fire. yes the media has had a i fire. yes the media has had a role — fire. yes the media has had a role in — fire. yes the media has had a role in petrol— fire. yes the media has had a role in petrol shortage - fire. yes the media has had a role in petrol shortage and i role in petrol shortage and that— role in petrol shortage and that however— role in petrol shortage and that however what - role in petrol shortage and that however what sort - role in petrol shortage and that however what sort ofl that however what sort of media, _ that however what sort of media, social— that however what sort of media, social media - that however what sort of media, social media will. that however what sort of- media, social media will have videos — media, social media will have videos of— media, social media will have videos of long _ media, social media will have videos of long queues - media, social media will have videos of long queues and - videos of long queues and fights— videos of long queues and fights where _ videos of long queues and fights where is _ videos of long queues and fights where is in - videos of long queues and fights where is in the - videos of long queues and i fights where is in the medial think— fights where is in the medial think that _ fights where is in the medial think that a _ fights where is in the medial think that a lot _ fights where is in the medial think that a lot of— fights where is in the medial think that a lot of people - think that a lot of people certaihiy_ think that a lot of people certainly we _ think that a lot of people certainly we would - think that a lot of people certainly we would be . think that a lot of people - certainly we would be saying make — certainly we would be saying make sure _ certainly we would be saying make sure that _ certainly we would be saying make sure that you - certainly we would be saying| make sure that you consume petrol— make sure that you consume petrol sensibly _ make sure that you consume petrol sensibly and - make sure that you consume petrol sensibly and that - make sure that you consume petrol sensibly and that we l petrol sensibly and that we think— petrol sensibly and that we think about _ petrol sensibly and that we think about carers - petrol sensibly and that we think about carers and - think about carers and front—line _ think about carers and front—line workers- think about carers and front—line workers is l think about carers and . front—line workers is the priority _ front—line workers is the priority. we _ front—line workers is the priority. we also - front—line workers is the . priority. we also published front—line workers is the - priority. we also published a story— priority. we also published a story at _ priority. we also published a story at the _ priority. we also published a story at the same _ priority. we also published a story at the same time. - priority. we also published a story at the same time. i - priority. we also published a i story at the same time. i was looking — story at the same time. i was looking lrack— story at the same time. i was looking back to _ story at the same time. i was looking back to a _ story at the same time. i was looking back to a select - looking back to a select committee _ looking back to a select committee report- looking back to a select committee report froml looking back to a select - committee report from 2016 where — committee report from 2016 where it _ committee report from 2016 where it puts _ committee report from 2016 where it puts in _ committee report from 2016 where it puts in quite - committee report from 2016 where it puts in quite clear. where it puts in quite clear day — where it puts in quite clear day to _ where it puts in quite clear day to of— where it puts in quite clear day to of how _ where it puts in quite clear day to of how the - where it puts in quite clear. day to of how the government was warned _ day to of how the government was warned about _ day to of how the government was warned about all- day to of how the government was warned about all of- day to of how the government was warned about all of this l was warned about all of this happening _ was warned about all of this happening within— was warned about all of this happening within a - was warned about all of this happening within a month . was warned about all of this | happening within a month of the brexit— happening within a month of the brexit referendum. _ happening within a month of the brexit referendum. no- happening within a month of the brexit referendum. no smoke i brexit referendum. no smoke without— brexit referendum. no smoke without fire _ brexit referendum. no smoke without fire.— without fire. and they knew. lara without fire. and they knew. lara o'reilly _ without fire. and they knew. lara o'reilly is _ without fire. and they knew. lara o'reilly is media - without fire. and they knew. lara o'reilly is media editor| lara 0'reilly is media editor at the media inside her. before we get into politics but start with you. netflix is ceo a former media show guest has been speaking to the press this week. what was he saying? it to week. what was he saying? it to the event was _ week. what was he saying? it to the event was quite _ week. what was he saying? it tr: the event was quite interesting is this week netflix is really some day to that it doesn't usually put out. what this day to has to do with it's kind of most popular shows was up there is two surprising findings from that. i guess the big ones was that. i guess the big ones was that its new korean language series cold squid game which is basically a korean version of hunger games. not only could be its biggest non— english series of all time but he said it could be its biggest show ever. and it's really interesting it's an interesting show, a real fees for the eyes, it got great reviews but it's interesting to see international content having such a big play in the us and in the uk. such a big play in the us and in the uk-— such a big play in the us and in the uk. ~ , ., ~' in the uk. why do you think he is aaivin in the uk. why do you think he is giving out — in the uk. why do you think he is giving out this _ in the uk. why do you think he is giving out this day _ in the uk. why do you think he is giving out this day to? - is giving out this day to? they have been accused of being quite opaque before. i have been accused of being quite opaque before. i guess executives — quite opaque before. i guess executives and _ quite opaque before. i guess executives and other - quite opaque before. i guess executives and other people | quite opaque before. i guess i executives and other people in the media have often grumbled that netflix doesn't release its viewership numbers and can basically say whatever it wants about the success of the shows at a time when it's plain to see that traditional tv ratings are failing. also at a time when netflix is spending billions of dollars and now betting those tv companies getting exclusive access to content and so on. another big bright the tv execs have had is when they've done their outside research into netflix shows in the past, the shows that it says are most successful, it usually places on a metric which is essentially the number of households that watch at least two minutes of a show within the first month of its release. this time around, what they say about that as that's all well and good but what happens if you've got a very strong first episode and everybody hates it and the audience windows? where is everybody watches our point of view for strictly come dancing or whatever. this time it's released day to on a different metric which is the number that a chilly watched, i'm sorry, the total hours that were viewed within the 28 days. it gives you much more of a picture as to the series got the mac that netflix views have a chilly been such an vault. 0k, a chilly been such an vault. ok, that's the streaming giant that's been shaking things up. — love. let's turn to the political news outlets that have in their own ways been shaking things up. jack, you've been on the media show before backin been on the media show before back in 2017 at that point you had the most shared piece of any news outlook during the 2017 election. for listeners who don't know, what is the london economic? the london economic— london economic? the london economic was _ london economic? the london economic was seven _ london economic? the london economic was seven years - london economic? the london economic was seven years ago | economic was seven years ago largely— economic was seven years ago largely out of the financial crash _ largely out of the financial crash and it was a paper that was — crash and it was a paper that was trying to explain to regular— was trying to explain to regular people whatjust happened, really and why they were _ happened, really and why they were suffering the effects of market _ were suffering the effects of market explosion. without the jargon — market explosion. without the jargon and the complicated bids — jargon and the complicated bids. we've effectively grown into what i would describe as a metropolitan publication with a metropolitan publication with a metropolitan mind—set. it's progressive and liberal inclusive viewpoints but we also — inclusive viewpoints but we also entrepreneurialism promoting. we understand and how businesses can provide solution _ how businesses can provide solution as well.— solution as well. you say ou're solution as well. you say you're metropolitan, - solution as well. you say l you're metropolitan, does solution as well. you say - you're metropolitan, does that mean that you're not interested in appealing to readers who from the traditional red wall areas, that's not of interest to you? i areas, that's not of interest to ou? ., �* areas, that's not of interest to ou? ., ., to you? i wouldn't say that view is per _ to you? i wouldn't say that view is per se, _ to you? i wouldn't say that view is per se, we - to you? i wouldn't say that| view is per se, we wouldn't draw— view is per se, we wouldn't draw a _ view is per se, we wouldn't draw a line at any sort of audience _ draw a line at any sort of audience anywhere, really. we are a _ audience anywhere, really. we are a newspaper. we are here to serve — are a newspaper. we are here to serve quite — are a newspaper. we are here to serve quite clearly defined from — serve quite clearly defined from demographic and so i guess in some — from demographic and so i guess in some regards that may be true, — in some regards that may be true, yeah. in some regards that may be true. yeah-— true, yeah. ok. you do also have a deliberately - true, yeah. ok. you do also have a deliberately tabloid i true, yeah. ok. you do also i have a deliberately tabloid he feels. i was very tempted in the office earlier to open the story "watch a naked man strolled down london street before his semi closed pal knocked a cyclist off bike. are fantastic. but that's click bait, isn't it is that how you make money?— bait, isn't it is that how you make money? bait, isn't it is that how you make mone ? ., ., ., ., ., make money? no, not at all. to touch on — make money? no, not at all. to touch on the _ make money? no, not at all. to touch on the tabloid _ make money? no, not at all. to touch on the tabloid niche - make money? no, not at all. to touch on the tabloid niche of- touch on the tabloid niche of the newspaper, iagree, ithink that tabloid has become sort of like policy by the red tops. what — like policy by the red tops. what we _ like policy by the red tops. what we were doing right at the start— what we were doing right at the start was— what we were doing right at the start was trying to make more complicated matters such as politics — complicated matters such as politics and economics accessible. obviously like any newspaper we are notjust accessible. obviously like any newspaper we are not just a politics — newspaper we are not just a politics newspaper we have food and sport — politics newspaper we have food and sport and lysol pages. we obviously— and sport and lysol pages. we obviously tried to cater to a broad — obviously tried to cater to a broad audience. — lifestyle. i think— broad audience. — lifestyle. i think using the tabloid format to communicate with people is not a _ to communicate with people is not a bad _ to communicate with people is not a bad thing.— not a bad thing. what is your business _ not a bad thing. what is your business model? _ not a bad thing. what is your business model? how- not a bad thing. what is your business model? how do - not a bad thing. what is your| business model? how do you not a bad thing. what is your - business model? how do you make money than? brute business model? how do you make money than?— money than? we make money throughout — money than? we make money throughout the _ money than? we make money throughout the event - money than? we make money throughout the event through | throughout the event through advertising and that comes through— advertising and that comes through various range of forms. effectively we've been self sustainable for a number of years— sustainable for a number of years and have been lucky enough _ years and have been lucky enough to start building a team on the — enough to start building a team on the back of now which is becoming popular.- on the back of now which is becoming popular. re- mind us how navarro — becoming popular. re- mind us how navarro media _ becoming popular. re- mind us how navarro media coverage i becoming popular. re- mind us how navarro media coverage is| how navarro media coverage is cause. 0n practical terms you do practice what you preach, don't you?— don't you? well i hope so. yeah. don't you? well i hope so. yeah- we _ don't you? well i hope so. yeah. we have _ don't you? well i hope so. yeah. we have 18 - don't you? well i hope so. yeah. we have 18 staff - don't you? well i hope so. | yeah. we have 18 staff and we also _ yeah. we have 18 staff and we also have _ yeah. we have 18 staff and we also have freelancers, - yeah. we have 18 staff and we also have freelancers, we - yeah. we have 18 staff and we | also have freelancers, we have the net — also have freelancers, we have the net pay— also have freelancers, we have the net pay freelancers - also have freelancers, we have the net pay freelancers more l the net pay freelancers more than — the net pay freelancers more than repair— the net pay freelancers more than repair stuff— the net pay freelancers more than repair stuff because - the net pay freelancers morei than repair stuff because they don't — than repair stuff because they don't have _ than repair stuff because they don't have pensions— than repair stuff because they don't have pensions and - don't have pensions and holidays _ don't have pensions and holidays. that _ don't have pensions and holidays. that sounds . don't have pensions and . holidays. that sounds quite hard — holidays. that sounds quite hard in _ holidays. that sounds quite hard in a _ holidays. that sounds quite hard in a temporary- hard in a temporary environment. - hard in a temporary environment. how. hard in a temporary. environment. how do hard in a temporary- environment. how do you do that? — environment. how do you do that? we _ environment. how do you do that? we have _ environment. how do you do that? we have no _ environment. how do you do| that? we have no advertising environment. how do you do i that? we have no advertising is set for— that? we have no advertising is set for you _ that? we have no advertising is set for you too _ that? we have no advertising is set for you too. we _ that? we have no advertising is set for you too. we have - set for you too. we have advertising _ set for you too. we have advertising revenue - set for you too. we have i advertising revenue coming set for you too. we have - advertising revenue coming from you to _ advertising revenue coming from you to to— advertising revenue coming from you to to sell. _ advertising revenue coming from you to to sell, considerable - you to to sell, considerable feeds— you to to sell, considerable feeds over— you to to sell, considerable feeds over the _ you to to sell, considerable feeds over the years, - you to to sell, considerable - feeds over the years, revenues that can — feeds over the years, revenues that can generate. _ feeds over the years, revenues that can generate. the - that can generate. the overwhelming - that can generate. the overwhelming majority that can generate. the . overwhelming majority of that can generate. the - overwhelming majority of our in, overwhelming majority of our in. 85 — overwhelming majority of our in. 85 plus _ overwhelming majority of our in. 85 plus %_ overwhelming majority of our in, 85 plus % is— overwhelming majority of our in, 85 plus % is from - in, 85 plus % is from supporters— in, 85 plus % is from supporters who - in, 85 plus % is from supporters who are i in, 85 plus % is from - supporters who are quite in, 85 plus % is from _ supporters who are quite happy to make — supporters who are quite happy to make a — supporters who are quite happy to make a regular— supporters who are quite happy to make a regular payment- supporters who are quite happy to make a regular payment to i to make a regular payment to support— to make a regular payment to support our— to make a regular payment to support our work. _ to make a regular payment to support our work. and - to make a regular payment to support our work. and that'si support our work. and that's not that— support our work. and that's not that unique _ support our work. and that's not that unique when - support our work. and that's not that unique when you . support our work. and that's . not that unique when you think about— not that unique when you think about for— not that unique when you think about for instance _ not that unique when you think about for instance the - not that unique when you think| about for instance the guardian is free — about for instance the guardian is free to — about for instance the guardian is free to read _ about for instance the guardian is free to read but _ about for instance the guardian is free to read but they- about for instance the guardian is free to read but they say- is free to read but they say would _ is free to read but they say would you _ is free to read but they say would you like _ is free to read but they say would you like to - is free to read but they say would you like to support i would you like to support our journalism _ would you like to support our journalism because _ would you like to support our journalism because if- would you like to support our journalism because if we - journalism because if we produce _ journalism because if we produce something - journalism because if we| produce something quite distinct— produce something quite distinct from _ produce something quite distinct from the - produce something quite distinct from the male i produce something quite distinct from the male of produce something quite - distinct from the male of the express _ distinct from the male of the express. there _ distinct from the male of the express. there is— distinct from the male of the express. there is a - express. there is a significantly- express. there is a significantly large i express. there is a - significantly large audience that— significantly large audience that is— significantly large audience that is willing _ significantly large audience that is willing to _ significantly large audience that is willing to pay- significantly large audience that is willing to pay for. significantly large audience that is willing to pay for it. | that is willing to pay for it. they're _ that is willing to pay for it. they're willing _ that is willing to pay for it. they're willing to - that is willing to pay for it. they're willing to also - that is willing to pay for it. they're willing to also payl that is willing to pay for it. i they're willing to also pay for the idea _ they're willing to also pay for the idea that _ they're willing to also pay for the idea that other— they're willing to also pay for the idea that other people i the idea that other people can read _ the idea that other people can read this— the idea that other people can read this content _ the idea that other people can read this content without - the idea that other people cani read this content without there being _ read this content without there being a — read this content without there being a payoff _ read this content without there being a payoff. we _ read this content without there being a payoff. we operate - being a payoff. we operate something _ being a payoff. we operate something quite _ being a payoff. we operate something quite similar. i being a payoff. we operate i something quite similar. yes, it's worked _ something quite similar. yes, it's worked in _ something quite similar. yes, it's worked in my _ something quite similar. yes, it's worked in my message . something quite similar. yes, it's worked in my message to| it's worked in my message to people — it's worked in my message to people is— it's worked in my message to people is sort— it's worked in my message to people is sort sceptical- it's worked in my message to people is sort sceptical about that or— people is sort sceptical about that or want _ people is sort sceptical about that or want to _ people is sort sceptical about that or want to enter- people is sort sceptical about that or want to enter the - people is sort sceptical about . that or want to enter the media isjournalism _ that or want to enter the media isjournalism there _ that or want to enter the media is journalism there are - that or want to enter the media is journalism there are a - isjournalism there are a huge appetite — isjournalism there are a huge appetite for— isjournalism there are a huge appetite for new _ isjournalism there are a huge appetite for new ways - isjournalism there are a huge appetite for new ways of- isjournalism there are a huge | appetite for new ways of doing things. — appetite for new ways of doing things, different _ appetite for new ways of doing things, different kind - appetite for new ways of doing things, different kind of- things, different kind of content _ things, different kind of content for— things, different kind of content for what - things, different kind of content for what you . things, different kind of. content for what you might things, different kind of- content for what you might see in media — content for what you might see in media you _ content for what you might see in media. you can— content for what you might see in media. you can find - content for what you might see in media. you can find your. in media. you can find your audience, _ in media. you can find your audience, this— in media. you can find your audience, this great- in media. you can find your audience, this great essayi in media. you can find your. audience, this great essay by kevin — audience, this great essay by kevin kelly. _ audience, this great essay by kevin kelly, i've _ audience, this great essay by kevin kelly, i've thousand . audience, this great essay byi kevin kelly, i've thousand one fancy — kevin kelly, i've thousand one fancy rd — kevin kelly, i've thousand one fancy rd about _ kevin kelly, i've thousand one fancy rd about 20 _ kevin kelly, i've thousand one fancy rd about 20 years - kevin kelly, i've thousand one fancy rd about 20 years ago. i fancy rd about 20 years ago. many— fancy rd about 20 years ago. many of— fancy rd about 20 years ago. many of the _ fancy rd about 20 years ago. many of the lessons - fancy rd about 20 years ago. many of the lessons and - fancy rd about 20 years ago. many of the lessons and that| many of the lessons and that essay — many of the lessons and that essay, highly— many of the lessons and that essay, highly recommended i many of the lessons and that i essay, highly recommended are still pertinent. _ essay, highly recommended are still pertinent. we _ essay, highly recommended are still pertinent. we found - essay, highly recommended are still pertinent. we found our. still pertinent. we found our audience, _ still pertinent. we found our audience, is— still pertinent. we found our audience, is growing - still pertinent. we found our audience, is growing and - still pertinent. we found our audience, is growing and we j still pertinent. we found our. audience, is growing and we are growing — audience, is growing and we are growing and _ audience, is growing and we are growing and were _ audience, is growing and we are growing and were very - audience, is growing and we are growing and were very happy i audience, is growing and we are growing and were very happy to| growing and were very happy to be able — growing and were very happy to be able to— growing and were very happy to be able to do— growing and were very happy to be able to do that _ growing and were very happy to be able to do that while - growing and were very happy to be able to do that while being i be able to do that while being core _ be able to do that while being core with— be able to do that while being core with our— be able to do that while being core with our values. - be able to do that while being core with our values. like - be able to do that while being core with our values.- core with our values. like the london economic _ core with our values. like the london economic did - core with our values. like the london economic did very - core with our values. like the | london economic did very well under thejeremy corbyn bounce so what has happened to your traffic since then?— traffic since then? last year was the best _ traffic since then? last year was the best year _ traffic since then? last year was the best year for - traffic since then? last year was the best year for us - traffic since then? last year was the best year for us by| was the best year for us by far — was the best year for us by far my— was the best year for us by far. my youtube _ was the best year for us by far. my youtube audience i far. my youtube audience doubled _ far. my youtube audience doubled i— far. my youtube audience doubled i think— far. my youtube audience doubled i think you - far. my youtube audience doubled i think you can. far. my youtube audience i doubled i think you can put that— doubled i think you can put that down— doubled i think you can put that down too _ doubled i think you can put that down too many- doubled i think you can put| that down too many people doubled i think you can put- that down too many people would getting _ that down too many people would getting content— that down too many people would getting content online. _ getting content online. obviously _ getting content online. obviously there - getting content online. obviously there was i getting content online. i obviously there was stuck indoors _ obviously there was stuck indoors because - obviously there was stuck indoors because of- obviously there was stuck- indoors because of lockdown. for me — indoors because of lockdown. for me i_ indoors because of lockdown. for me i don't _ indoors because of lockdown. for me i don't think- indoors because of lockdown. for me i don't thinkjeremy. for me i don't thinkjeremy corbyn _ for me i don't thinkjeremy corbyn is _ for me i don't thinkjeremy corbyn is why— for me i don't thinkjeremy corbyn is why we _ for me i don't thinkjeremy corbyn is why we have - for me i don't thinkjeremy. corbyn is why we have grown. for me i don't thinkjeremy- corbyn is why we have grown. i a chilly— corbyn is why we have grown. i a chilly look— corbyn is why we have grown. i a chilly look at _ corbyn is why we have grown. i a chilly look at it _ corbyn is why we have grown. i a chilly look at it more - corbyn is why we have grown. i a chilly look at it more as- corbyn is why we have grown. i a chilly look at it more as a - a chilly look at it more as a the — a chilly look at it more as a the sun— a chilly look at it more as a the sun newspaper- a chilly look at it more as a the sun newspaper for- a chilly look at it more as a i the sun newspaper for instant milder— the sun newspaper for instant milder comes _ the sun newspaper for instant milder comes into— the sun newspaper for instant milder comes into the - the sun newspaper for instant milder comes into the britishl milder comes into the british market— milder comes into the british market in— milder comes into the british market in the _ milder comes into the british market in the late _ milder comes into the british market in the late '60s, - milder comes into the british| market in the late '60s, early '705, _ market in the late '60s, early '70s, he — market in the late '60s, early '70s, he identified _ market in the late '60s, early '70s, he identified baby- '70s, he identified baby boomers— '70s, he identified baby boomers and _ '70s, he identified baby boomers and is - '70s, he identified baby boomers and is really. '70s, he identified baby. boomers and is really been '70s, he identified baby- boomers and is really been a content _ boomers and is really been a contentjourney_ boomers and is really been a contentjourney with- boomers and is really been a content journey with those . content journey with those people _ content journey with those people his _ content journey with those people his entire - content journey with those people his entire career. content journey with those people his entire career in| content journey with those - people his entire career in the uk with— people his entire career in the uk with the _ people his entire career in the uk with the sun, _ people his entire career in the uk with the sun, the - people his entire career in the uk with the sun, the times, . uk with the sun, the times, sunday— uk with the sun, the times, sunday times _ uk with the sun, the times, sunday times and - uk with the sun, the times, sunday times and sky. - uk with the sun, the times, sunday times and sky. i- uk with the sun, the times, i sunday times and sky. i think for us — sunday times and sky. i think for us in — sunday times and sky. i think for us in media _ sunday times and sky. i think for us in media we _ sunday times and sky. i think for us in media we look- sunday times and sky. i think for us in media we look at- for us in media we look at millenniums_ for us in media we look at millenniums and - for us in media we look at millenniums and look- for us in media we look at millenniums and look at i for us in media we look at. millenniums and look at jenn for us in media we look at- millenniums and look at jenn z and say— millenniums and look at jenn z and say we _ millenniums and look at jenn z and say we know— millenniums and look at jenn z and say we know where - millenniums and look at jenn z and say we know where you . millenniums and look at jenn z| and say we know where you are sure, _ and say we know where you are sure. we — and say we know where you are sure. we want— and say we know where you are sure, we want to _ and say we know where you are sure, we want to craft - and say we know where you are sure, we want to craft stories i sure, we want to craft stories and _ sure, we want to craft stories and offer _ sure, we want to craft stories and offer insight _ sure, we want to craft stories and offer insight where - sure, we want to craft stories and offer insight where you . and offer insight where you like — and offer insight where you like to— and offer insight where you like to see _ and offer insight where you like to see them. _ and offer insight where you like to see them. and - and offer insight where you like to see them. and we i like to see them. and we are going — like to see them. and we are going to _ like to see them. and we are going to go _ like to see them. and we are going to go on _ like to see them. and we are going to go on a _ like to see them. and we are going to go on a journey with you — going to go on a journey with you we _ going to go on a journey with you. we have _ going to go on a journey with you. we have an _ going to go on a journey with . you. we have an audience right now— you. we have an audience right now in— you. we have an audience right now in his _ you. we have an audience right now in his '30s _ you. we have an audience right now in his '30s and _ you. we have an audience right now in his '30s and '20s - you. we have an audience right now in his '30s and '20s but. you. we have an audience rightj now in his '30s and '20s but we want _ now in his '30s and '20s but we want to— now in his '30s and '20s but we want to grow _ now in his '30s and '20s but we want to grow. when _ now in his '30s and '20s but we want to grow. when they're - now in his '30s and '20s but we want to grow. when they're in. want to grow. when they're in their— want to grow. when they're in their '40s. _ want to grow. when they're in their '405, '50s_ want to grow. when they're in their '40s, '50s making - their '40s, '50s making decisions, _ their '40s, '50s making decisions, having - their '40s, '50s making - decisions, having influence it going — decisions, having influence it going through _ decisions, having influence it going through media - decisions, having influence it going through media just - decisions, having influence it| going through media just like people — going through media just like people in— going through media just like people in the _ going through media just like people in the sunday - going through media just like people in the sunday times. i people in the sunday times. yes, _ people in the sunday times. yes. these _ people in the sunday times. yes, these sites _ people in the sunday times. yes, these sites are - people in the sunday times. yes, these sites are doing . yes, these sites are doing pretty good traffic and still having a healthy following. how have papers like yours changed in response as a reaction? l in response as a reaction? i think it's really interesting that there are websites like navarro did really well under jeremy corbyn they show that they were quite disruptive in an interesting way. i think no matter what their politics is there are a mix of really good politics and gerrit eight generational readership, followership and people go online. our newspaper i think is read by a broad scope of ages. we have young readers, student readers, older readers, they can a chilly get the newspaper for 60 they can a chilly get the newspaperfor 60 pipe peeve. newspaper for 60 pipe peeve. they newspaperfor 60 pipe peeve. they can also go online for the what the newspapers have done is really improve our online offering. maybe not so much in direct response but a chilly just an awareness of where this media is going. we have a nap, we have a much fuller online offering i think then we did 5 or ten years ago. i think that shows the website today. let's to back shows the website today. let's go back to _ shows the website today. let's go back to the _ shows the website today. let's go back to the political - shows the website today. let's go back to the political this - go back to the political this week. keir starmer in the party conference. how well do you think starmer and his team handled the media? l think starmer and his team handled the media? i would have thou~ht handled the media? i would have thought before _ handled the media? i would have thought before today _ handled the media? i would have thought before today there - handled the media? i would have thought before today there been | thought before today there been teething problems. | thought before today there been teething problems.— teething problems. i think they have been _ teething problems. i think they have been on _ teething problems. i think they have been on the _ teething problems. i think they have been on the evo - teething problems. i think they i have been on the evo conference we would've expected it big interview say with the guardian and he did something with us sunday mirror but i think the guardian, there wasn't really a major piece there. i think he struggled because of the pandemic and because ofjust where we are with the labour party. i think he has struggled to have a proper hearing from the press. and i think that part of that is because he hasn't been able to break through due to covid but also because he hasn't really as he said today, got his house in order. i think today i think there's been a slight game changer in terms of how the media regarding them. ijust read another tweet the political editor of the sun who said long road to go but at least the opposition are finally having a crack at credibility. that's a really interesting response from them. i think, a long way to go but i think he delivered a speech today that shows that he is serious about winning the general election. ilrrul’illll serious about winning the general election. will devon to add a little _ general election. will devon to add a little bit _ general election. will devon to add a little bit more. _ general election. will devon to add a little bit more. but - general election. will devon to add a little bit more. but what| add a little bit more. but what is your view on this, do you agree with jane? l is your view on this, do you agree with jane?— is your view on this, do you agree with jane? i think it's been imposed _ agree with jane? i think it's been imposed now - agree with jane? i think it's been imposed now for - agree with jane? i think it's| been imposed now for about agree with jane? i think it's - been imposed now for about 18 months — been imposed now for about 18 months i— been imposed now for about 18 months. i think the majority —. you _ months. i think the majority —. you look— months. i think the majority —. you look at _ months. i think the majority —. you look at the local elections, hartlepool. in a way covid _ elections, hartlepool. in a way covid should been a gift to him strange — covid should been a gift to him strange to say we've gone through— strange to say we've gone through this appalling. but he had a — through this appalling. but he had a real opportunity, he was given— had a real opportunity, he was given time, most of his opposition current in the job which — opposition current in the job which i _ opposition current in the job which i think the people in the media — which i think the people in the media don't really say. it is incredibly difficult job, media don't really say. it is incredibly difficultjob, he had — incredibly difficultjob, he had time to get his policy messages right and i think we need — messages right and i think we need to— messages right and i think we need to understand, strong is communication whether it's brexit. _ communication whether it's brexit, starmer now, tends to be because of policy. and i think— be because of policy. and i think politics and policy are separate if he could get the calm — separate if he could get the calm drives up i think it's set you — calm drives up i think it's set you up— calm drives up i think it's set you up front hiding to nothing. in terms— you up front hiding to nothing. in terms of the strategy now they— in terms of the strategy now they approach which was adopted 20 years— they approach which was adopted 20 years ago and i think it would _ 20 years ago and i think it would be foolish to say that i can't — would be foolish to say that i can't work. i think that would be foolish. however, i think it was _ be foolish. however, i think it was considerably changed last 20 years. what is the policy offer — 20 years. what is the policy offer from starmer, we don't know — offer from starmer, we don't know i— offer from starmer, we don't know. i think the conclusion i had _ know. i think the conclusion i had leaving conference last night — had leaving conference last night was people were having this debate one way or the other— this debate one way or the other 15_ this debate one way or the other 15 pounds for minimum wage, — other 15 pounds for minimum wage, for— other 15 pounds for minimum wage, for the care workers, that— wage, for the care workers, that was— wage, for the care workers, that was the original point. we have _ that was the original point. we have been fighting in the labour— have been fighting in the labour party. and i look at my phone — labour party. and i look at my phone and _ labour party. and i look at my phone and am getting videos of people — phone and am getting videos of people having scraps on petrol coupons — people having scraps on petrol coupons. it does feel to me that— coupons. it does feel to me that this _ coupons. it does feel to me that this conversation of electability and present himself to the country is kind of disassociated from the reality _ of disassociated from the reality. i agree, of disassociated from the reality. iagree, i of disassociated from the reality. i agree, i thought it was — reality. i agree, i thought it was an— reality. i agree, i thought it was an adequate speech, it wasn't _ was an adequate speech, it wasn't a _ was an adequate speech, it wasn't a bad speech, it was a bad _ wasn't a bad speech, it was a bad speech i think he was in trouble _ bad speech i think he was in trouble '— bad speech i think he was in trouble. i don't see him mastering the media and a way that will— mastering the media and a way that will be necessary for labour _ that will be necessary for labour. we know labour in this country— labour. we know labour in this country has structural falls which _ country has structural falls which favours the tories. it can— which favours the tories. it can take _ which favours the tories. it can take something really special— can take something really special from keir starmer to do with the — special from keir starmer to do with the majority to and right now — with the majority to and right now surrounded by the people he is, i now surrounded by the people he is, idon't — now surrounded by the people he is, i don't see it, i don't see it. importantly i don't see it at all— it. importantly i don't see it at all with new media at all, not one _ at all with new media at all, not one bit.— not one bit. let's talk about how that — not one bit. let's talk about how that much _ not one bit. let's talk about how that much change - not one bit. let's talk about how that much change do i not one bit. let's talk about i how that much change do you think he needs a political big headerfrom the think he needs a political big header from the press to work with him? blair had campbell, millman from the what you think? ., ., �* , ., think? yeah, that's an interesting _ think? yeah, that's an interesting question. i think? yeah, that's an | interesting question. is think? yeah, that's an - interesting question. is that matthew— interesting question. is that matthew doyle _ interesting question. is that matthew doyle who - interesting question. is that matthew doyle who was - interesting question. is that i matthew doyle who was when interesting question. is that. matthew doyle who was when i started — matthew doyle who was when i started in — matthew doyle who was when i started in the _ matthew doyle who was when i started in the lobby— matthew doyle who was when i started in the lobby 20 - matthew doyle who was when i started in the lobby 20 years . started in the lobby 20 years ago. — started in the lobby 20 years ago. matthew— started in the lobby 20 years ago, matthew was _ started in the lobby 20 years ago, matthew was running . started in the lobby 20 years i ago, matthew was running the rebuttal— ago, matthew was running the rebuttal union _ ago, matthew was running the rebuttal union in _ ago, matthew was running the rebuttal union in the _ ago, matthew was running the rebuttal union in the labour. rebuttal union in the labour press — rebuttal union in the labour press office _ rebuttal union in the labour press office. his _ rebuttal union in the labour press office. his real- press office. his real experience, - press office. his real experience, is- press office. his real experience, is that i press office. his real- experience, is that experience with— experience, is that experience with labour. _ experience, is that experience with labour, government, - experience, is that experience with labour, government, he i with labour, government, he worked — with labour, government, he worked for— with labour, government, he worked for tony— with labour, government, he worked for tony blair- with labour, government, he worked for tony blair after. worked for tony blair after tony— worked for tony blair after tony blair— worked for tony blair after tony blair love _ worked for tony blair after tony blair love power. - worked for tony blair after| tony blair love power. and worked for tony blair afteri tony blair love power. and i think— tony blair love power. and i think that's _ tony blair love power. and i think that's allowed - tony blair love power. and ii think that's allowed someone jeremy— think that's allowed someone jeremy corbyn _ think that's allowed someone jeremy corbyn support - think that's allowed someone jeremy corbyn support was i think that's allowed someone i jeremy corbyn support was like at tony— jeremy corbyn support was like at tony blair— jeremy corbyn support was like at tony blair tribute _ jeremy corbyn support was like at tony blair tribute act. - jeremy corbyn support was like at tony blair tribute act. but i at tony blair tribute act. but matthew _ at tony blair tribute act. but matthew doyle _ at tony blair tribute act. but matthew doyle is _ at tony blair tribute act. but matthew doyle is a - matthew doyle is a professional, - matthew doyle is a professional, he i matthew doyle is a - professional, he understands communication. _ professional, he understands communication. i— professional, he understands communication. ithink- professional, he understands. communication. i think aaron's right, _ communication. i think aaron's right, he — communication. i think aaron's right, he could've _ communication. i think aaron's right, he could've done - communication. i think aaron's right, he could've done much. right, he could've done much more — right, he could've done much more with— right, he could've done much more with the _ right, he could've done much more with the pandemic - right, he could've done much more with the pandemic and | more with the pandemic and getting — more with the pandemic and getting his _ more with the pandemic and getting his in _ more with the pandemic and getting his in order. - more with the pandemic and getting his in order. i- more with the pandemic and getting his in order. i don't i getting his in order. i don't think— getting his in order. i don't think you _ getting his in order. i don't think you really _ getting his in order. i don't think you really need - getting his in order. i don't think you really need a - getting his in order. i don't| think you really need a kind getting his in order. i don't i think you really need a kind of law name _ think you really need a kind of law name or— think you really need a kind of law name or a _ think you really need a kind of law name or a big _ think you really need a kind of law name or a big tv - think you really need a kind of law name or a big tv name i think you really need a kind ofi law name or a big tv name any more — law name or a big tv name any more i— law name or a big tv name any more idont— law name or a big tv name any more. i don't think _ law name or a big tv name any more. idon't think it— law name or a big tv name any more. i don't think it matters. more. i don't think it matters as more. idon't think it matters as much— more. idon't think it matters as much is— more. i don't think it matters as much is getting _ more. i don't think it matters as much is getting the - more. i don't think it matters. as much is getting the message right— as much is getting the message right and — as much is getting the message right and getting _ as much is getting the message right and getting that _ as much is getting the message right and getting that through. i right and getting that through. ithink— right and getting that through. i think it — right and getting that through. i think it is _ right and getting that through. i think it is about— right and getting that through. i think it is about credibility . i think it is about credibility and — i think it is about credibility and i— i think it is about credibility and i think— i think it is about credibility and i think ease _ i think it is about credibility and i think ease made - i think it is about credibility and i think ease made a - i think it is about credibilityj and i think ease made a big step— and i think ease made a big step today— and i think ease made a big step today in _ and i think ease made a big step today in making - and i think ease made a big step today in making that i step today in making that credibility. _ step today in making that credibility.— step today in making that credibility. names banded around like _ credibility. names banded around like kevin - credibility. names banded | around like kevin maguire, credibility. names banded - around like kevin maguire, you don't think that's necessary? l don't think that's necessary? i don't think that's necessary? i don't think that's necessary? i don't think it's necessary because _ don't think it's necessary because i— don't think it's necessary because i think- don't think it's necessary because i think that - don't think it's necessaryj because i think that tony don't think it's necessary - because i think that tony blair was when _ because i think that tony blair was when he _ because i think that tony blair was when he took _ because i think that tony blair was when he took alastair- was when he took alastair campbell— was when he took alastair campbell on— was when he took alastair campbell on from - was when he took alastair campbell on from the - was when he took alastairl campbell on from the daily mirror— campbell on from the daily mirror in _ campbell on from the daily mirror in the _ campbell on from the daily mirror in the early- campbell on from the daily mirror in the early days, ii mirror in the early days, i think— mirror in the early days, i think it _ mirror in the early days, i think it was _ mirror in the early days, i think it was sort - mirror in the early days, i think it was sort of - mirror in the early days, i think it was sort of a - think it was sort of a different— think it was sort of a different sense... i think it was sort of a - different sense... ashley tony blair _ different sense... ashley tony blair was _ different sense... ashley tony blairwas seen— different sense... ashley tony blair was seen as _ different sense... ashley tony blair was seen as an _ different sense... ashley tony blair was seen as an ex— - different sense... ashley tonyl blair was seen as an ex— prime minister— blair was seen as an ex— prime minister was _ blair was seen as an ex— prime minister was inevitable. - blair was seen as an ex— prime minister was inevitable. i- minister was inevitable. i think— minister was inevitable. i think the _ minister was inevitable. i think the jury— minister was inevitable. i think the jury still- minister was inevitable. i think the jury still out. minister was inevitable. ii think the jury still out with keir— think the jury still out with keir starmer. _ think the jury still out with keirstarmer. i— think the jury still out with keir starmer. i think- think the jury still out withi keir starmer. i think you're such— keir starmer. i think you're such a _ keir starmer. i think you're such a long _ keir starmer. i think you're such a long way _ keir starmer. i think you're such a long way to - keir starmer. i think you're such a long way to go. - keir starmer. i think you're such a long way to go. i - such a long way to go. i think we may— such a long way to go. i think we may see _ such a long way to go. i think we may see keir— such a long way to go. i think we may see keir starmer- such a long way to go. i think- we may see keir starmer needing to fight— we may see keir starmer needing to fight to — we may see keir starmer needing to fight to elections _ we may see keir starmer needing to fight to elections if _ we may see keir starmer needing to fight to elections if his - to fight to elections if his party— to fight to elections if his party will— to fight to elections if his party will allow— to fight to elections if his party will allow him - to fight to elections if his party will allow him that. because _ party will allow him that. because boris— party will allow him that. because borisjohnson. party will allow him that. because borisjohnson is| party will allow him that. - because borisjohnson is still pretty— because borisjohnson is still pretty popular— because borisjohnson is still pretty popular as _ because borisjohnson is still pretty popular as we've - because borisjohnson is still pretty popular as we've been| pretty popular as we've been discussing _ pretty popular as we've been discussing despite _ pretty popular as we've been discussing despite the - pretty popular as we've been. discussing despite the terrible pandemic. _ discussing despite the terrible pandemic, despite _ discussing despite the terrible pandemic, despite fuel- discussing despite the terrible pandemic, despite fuel crisis. | pandemic, despite fuel crisis. i pandemic, despite fuel crisis. idon't — pandemic, despite fuel crisis. idon't think— pandemic, despite fuel crisis. i don't think he _ pandemic, despite fuel crisis. i don't think he can _ pandemic, despite fuel crisis. i don't think he can attract. i don't think he can attract bil i don't think he can attract big names _ i don't think he can attract big names at _ i don't think he can attract big names at the - i don't think he can attract big names at the moment| i don't think he can attract. big names at the moment but i don't think he can attract - big names at the moment but i don't _ big names at the moment but i don't think— big names at the moment but i don't think he _ big names at the moment but i don't think he necessarily - don't think he necessarily needs— don't think he necessarily needs to _ don't think he necessarily needs to i— don't think he necessarily needs to. i think - don't think he necessarily needs to. i think ease - don't think he necessarilyj needs to. i think ease got don't think he necessarily i needs to. i think ease got to -et needs to. i think ease got to get his— needs to. i think ease got to get his own _ needs to. i think ease got to get his own position- needs to. i think ease got to get his own position and - needs to. i think ease got to get his own position and his| get his own position and his own— get his own position and his own policies— get his own position and his own policies and _ get his own position and his own policies and his - get his own position and his own policies and his own . get his own position and his i own policies and his own team right— own policies and his own team right to — own policies and his own team right to then— own policies and his own team right to then be _ own policies and his own team right to then be able _ own policies and his own team right to then be able to - own policies and his own team right to then be able to say . right to then be able to say right. — right to then be able to say right. we _ right to then be able to say right. we can— right to then be able to say right, we can wind - right to then be able to say right, we can wind the - right, we can wind the election _ right, we can wind the election.— right, we can wind the election. ., ., ,, , ., , ., election. that takes me to your relationship _ election. that takes me to your relationship and _ election. that takes me to your relationship and your— relationship and your colleagues relationship with jeremy corbyn. did you in any way help shape policies do you think our test media lines? know and this is something that has been thrown at us repeatedly. you outright with corbin or whatever. the frank reality was corbin and his people were so of a stretch with the challenges they face internally and externally they didn't even have the time to do that kind of stuff. the kind of intricate rebuttal, building relationship, they didn't do it. they should've done it and i don't think he was there fairly is theyjust had a panacea of pricey yet brexit, to a panacea of pricey yet brexit, to alexian, you have the brexit crisis merge in 2017. do we fit into policy? i think some of the stuff that came in 2017 and 2019 certainly fed into some of that. but i don't think it was ever really in encouraging way. one think about keir starmer and i agree, if it is party is given to ease like the cherry come easy to bite the cherry for the the big difference between starmer and blair is when they brought in alastair in the mid— '90s and the mirror image within the last week they had john prescott. they got the trade unions on their side. and people forget that a chilly blanch at people on a journey it was a popularjourney blanch at people on a journey it was a popular journey with mass consent. i think starmer overstepped the mark last week in his initial proposal which collapsed. and i think he needs to learn a lesson from that. you can't bully people in a way that wasn't even being done by tony blair at his peak. there was a little bit of hubris. i think starmer and his team may beg to differ with you. we will get into politics so much but jack, tell me... in terms of corbin and his team did you have contact with them, were you allied with them? llrla. have contact with them, were you allied with them? no, not at all. you allied with them? no, not at all- as _ you allied with them? no, not at all- as a — you allied with them? no, not at all. as a newspaper - you allied with them? no, not at all. as a newspaper i - you allied with them? no, not at all. as a newspaper i think| at all. as a newspaper i think we were _ at all. as a newspaper i think we were born out of a lot of the — we were born out of a lot of the same _ we were born out of a lot of the same things ideologically. but we — the same things ideologically. but we were never purposely, in fact we — but we were never purposely, in fact we are — but we were never purposely, in fact we are never aligned with the labour party then, were not aligned — the labour party then, were not aligned with them now. butjust as likely— aligned with them now. butjust as likely to talk to rory stewart and sean berry as we are to — stewart and sean berry as we are to talk to any of the corbin shadow cabinet and indeed _ corbin shadow cabinet and indeed any of keir starmer is cabinet~ _ indeed any of keir starmer is cabinet. so the short answer is probably— cabinet. so the short answer is probably no, no.— probably no, no. jane, we do assume that _ probably no, no. jane, we do assume that the _ probably no, no. jane, we do assume that the papers - probably no, no. jane, we do assume that the papers on i probably no, no. jane, we do i assume that the papers on the left, the mayor and the guardians say we will always support the labour leader and the papers on the right the daily mail and the telegraph etc will support the conservative leader. but it's not always that simple, is not of his cases a?— of his cases a? no, obviously in the late — of his cases a? no, obviously in the late 1970s, _ of his cases a? no, obviously in the late 1970s, the - of his cases a? no, obviously. in the late 1970s, the murdoch and blair— in the late 1970s, the murdoch and blair famously— in the late 1970s, the murdoch and blair famously very - in the late 1970s, the murdoch and blair famously very close i and blair famously very close relationship _ and blair famously very close relationship there. _ and blair famously very close relationship there. i- and blair famously very close relationship there. ithink- relationship there. i think that— relationship there. i think that slightly— relationship there. i think that slightly different - relationship there. i thinki that slightly different now. relationship there. i think. that slightly different now. i don't — that slightly different now. i don't think— that slightly different now. i don't think the _ that slightly different now. i don't think the labour - that slightly different now. i| don't think the labour leader needs. — don't think the labour leader needs. i_ don't think the labour leader needs, i don't— don't think the labour leader needs, i don't think - don't think the labour leader needs, i don't think is - needs, i don't think is crucial _ needs, idon't think is crucial. it's— needs, i don't think is crucial. it's obviouslyl crucial. it's obviously important _ crucial. it's obviously important but - crucial. it's obviously important but it's- crucial. it's obviously| important but it's not crucial. it's obviously- important but it's not that crucial~ _ important but it's not that crucial. theguardian - important but it's not that crucial. theguardian i - important but it's not that| crucial. theguardian i think didn't— crucial. theguardian i think didn't explicitly— crucial. theguardian i think didn't explicitly act - crucial. theguardian i think didn't explicitly act the - didn't explicitly act the labour— didn't explicitly act the labour party— didn't explicitly act the labour party the - didn't explicitly act the labour party the last i didn't explicitly act the - labour party the last election, the election— labour party the last election, the election before. _ labour party the last election, the election before. it's- labour party the last election, the election before. it's morel the election before. it's more complicated _ the election before. it's more complicated. i— the election before. it's more complicated. ithink- the election before. it's more complicated. i think that's . the election before. it's morel complicated. i think that's the difference _ complicated. i think that's the difference because _ complicated. i think that's the difference because of- complicated. i think that's the difference because of social. difference because of social media — difference because of social media you _ difference because of social media you don't _ difference because of social media you don'tjust- difference because of social media you don'tjust need i media you don'tjust need newspaper— media you don'tjust need newspaper backings - media you don'tjust need newspaper backings and i | media you don'tjust need - newspaper backings and i think it's much— newspaper backings and i think it's much more _ newspaper backings and i think it's much more open. - newspaper backings and i think it's much more open.— newspaper backings and i think it's much more open. what about on the conservative _ it's much more open. what about on the conservative side? - it's much more open. what about on the conservative side? will. on the conservative side? will every papers support every tory leader? l every papers support every tory leader? ~ , leader? i think they will. i think when _ leader? i think they will. i think when it _ leader? i think they will. i think when it comes - leader? i think they will. i think when it comes down j leader? i think they will. i i think when it comes down to leader? i think they will. i - think when it comes down to it. ithink— think when it comes down to it. i think i— think when it comes down to it. i think i have _ think when it comes down to it. i think i have to— think when it comes down to it. i think i have to raise _ think when it comes down to it. i think i have to raise a - i think i have to raise a smile a couple _ i think i have to raise a smile a couple weeks _ i think i have to raise a smile a couple weeks ago - i think i have to raise a smile a couple weeks ago in - i think i have to raise a smile a couple weeks ago in borisi a couple weeks ago in boris johnson _ a couple weeks ago in boris johnson brought— a couple weeks ago in boris johnson brought forward . a couple weeks ago in boris| johnson brought forward his social— johnson brought forward his social care _ johnson brought forward his social care plan _ johnson brought forward his social care plan and - johnson brought forward his social care plan and it - johnson brought forward his social care plan and it was i johnson brought forward his social care plan and it was aj social care plan and it was a huge — social care plan and it was a huge thundering _ social care plan and it was a huge thundering comment. social care plan and it was a - huge thundering comment piece in the _ huge thundering comment piece in the telegraph _ huge thundering comment piece in the telegraph saying - huge thundering comment piece in the telegraph saying that - in the telegraph saying that they— in the telegraph saying that they couldn't _ in the telegraph saying that they couldn't possibly- in the telegraph saying that they couldn't possibly see i in the telegraph saying that i they couldn't possibly see how this could _ they couldn't possibly see how this could ever— they couldn't possibly see how this could ever pass _ they couldn't possibly see how this could ever pass and - they couldn't possibly see how this could ever pass and it - they couldn't possibly see how this could ever pass and it was sort _ this could ever pass and it was sort of— this could ever pass and it was sort of the _ this could ever pass and it was sort of the end _ this could ever pass and it was sort of the end of— sort of the end of conservatism. . sort of the end ofi conservatism. and sort of the end of— conservatism. and interestingly enough — conservatism. and interestingly enough and _ conservatism. and interestingly enough and a _ conservatism. and interestingly enough and a good _ conservatism. and interestingly enough and a good debate - conservatism. and interestinglyl enough and a good debate there that boris— enough and a good debate there that borisjohnson— enough and a good debate there that boris johnson started - that boris johnson started about— that boris johnson started about whether— that boris johnson started about whether he - that boris johnson started about whether he could i that boris johnson started about whether he could a| that boris johnson started - about whether he could a chilly -et about whether he could a chilly get tax — about whether he could a chilly get tax rises _ about whether he could a chilly get tax rises passes _ about whether he could a chilly get tax rises passes party. - get tax rises passes party. when — get tax rises passes party. when it— get tax rises passes party. when it comes _ get tax rises passes party. when it comes to - get tax rises passes party. when it comes to it, - get tax rises passes party. when it comes to it, four. get tax rises passes party. - when it comes to it, four weeks on until— when it comes to it, four weeks on until election _ when it comes to it, four weeks on until election ease _ when it comes to it, four weeks on until election ease going - on until election ease going to -et on until election ease going to get the — on until election ease going to get the backing _ on until election ease going to get the backing of _ on until election ease going to get the backing of the - on until election ease going to get the backing of the daily. get the backing of the daily mail. — get the backing of the daily mail. who— get the backing of the daily mail, who get— get the backing of the daily mail, who get the - get the backing of the daily mail, who get the backing. get the backing of the daily. mail, who get the backing of the daily— mail, who get the backing of the daily telegraph - mail, who get the backing of the daily telegraph i - mail, who get the backing of the daily telegraph i think. the daily telegraph i think that's~~~ _ the daily telegraph i think that's... the daily telegraph i think that's- - -— the daily telegraph i think that's. .. going back to the question _ that's. .. going back to the question i— that's. .. going back to the question i the _ that's. .. going back to the question i the top - that's. .. going back to the question i the top of- that's. .. going back to the question i the top of the i question i the top of the programme how much way do you think the press a chilly do hold over public opinion anyway? i hold over public opinion anyway?— hold over public opinion an a ? ~ , ., anyway? i think we still do. but not anyway? i think we still do. lbut rrot to _ anyway? i think we still do. but not to the _ anyway? i think we still do. but not to the extent - anyway? i think we still do. | but not to the extent where anyway? i think we still do. i but not to the extent where in 97 and — but not to the extent where in 97 and 2001— but not to the extent where in 97 and 2001 it _ but not to the extent where in 97 and 2001 it really— but not to the extent where in 97 and 2001 it really didn't - 97 and 2001 it really didn't matter— 97 and 2001 it really didn't matter sort— 97 and 2001 it really didn't matter sort of— 97 and 2001 it really didn't matter sort of getting - 97 and 2001 it really didn't matter sort of getting the i matter sort of getting the son's— matter sort of getting the son's support _ matter sort of getting the son's support did. - matter sort of getting the son's support did. i- matter sort of getting the i son's support did. i wouldn't say swung _ son's support did. i wouldn't say swung the _ son's support did. i wouldn't say swung the election - son's support did. i wouldn't i say swung the election because i think— say swung the election because i think the _ say swung the election because i think the sun _ say swung the election because i think the sun always - say swung the election because i think the sun always saw- say swung the election because i think the sun always saw the i i think the sun always saw the way — i think the sun always saw the way i— i think the sun always saw the way. i think_ i think the sun always saw the way. i think it's— i think the sun always saw the way. i think it's more - i think the sun always saw the way. i think it's more diffuse. way. i think it's more diffuse now— way. i think it's more diffuse now because _ way. i think it's more diffuse now because of _ way. i think it's more diffuse now because of social- way. i think it's more diffuse| now because of social media. way. i think it's more diffuse i now because of social media. it evenly— now because of social media. it evenly spread _ now because of social media. it evenly spread out. _ now because of social media. it evenly spread out.— evenly spread out. that's all we have time _ evenly spread out. that's all we have time for— evenly spread out. that's all we have time for today. - evenly spread out. that's all. we have time for today. thanks to all my guess to lower our riley, two jane merrick, policy editor at the eye newspaper. air the sunny co—founder of navarro media. and jacked the founder of the london economic. the media show will be back next week at the same time. for now thanks forjoining us. more rain and wind on the way. it is autumn, after all, but for some of us, saturday may end up being a bit of a write—off. and in fact, over the next few days, the weather will remain very unsettled, spells of heavy rain, gales at times and even the possibility of some travel disruption. and the atlantic is looking a lot more vigorous in its weather patterns in the last few days. we're seeing low pressures forming, propelled by a powerful jet stream. and you can see a low pressure anchored just to the northwest of the uk, another one to the south forming, and that's the one that's going to bring the particularly wet spell of weather on saturday. 50 through the early hours, we're already expecting some rain across western areas of the uk. but ahead of that, there is plenty of clear, dry weather. so eastern and central areas may actually wake up to some sunshine. that sunshine may even last until mid—morning or perhaps early afternoon in the extreme east, but very quickly, those clouds will increase and we've got some particularly wet weather there for the south and the southeast, and some strong winds too. further northwest in the afternoon, it's going to be a mixed bag. so for belfast and glasgow, i think some sunny spells certainly in the forecast. so here's saturday night. that low pressure and its extensive rain front moves out of the way, and then the weather opens up a little bitjust in time for the marathons on sunday. so for the london marathon, expect some sunshine, the marathon in belfast as well. nowhere will be completely dry. in fact, showers are expected on sunday with a keen westerly breeze, but at least we're not going to have that really prolonged rain. now, the temperatures both on saturday and sunday will be around the mid—teens, not that it will feel like it because of the strength of the wind and also the prolonged rain. and then on monday, the next area of low pressure heads our way. so early on monday, there could be some sunshine around, but certainly by monday afternoon and evening, we'll start to see the next area of wet weather approaching southwestern parts of the uk. so a very unsettled spell of weather over the next few days — quite typical for october, really. here's the summary. you can see a lot of rain shower icons there, temperatures mostly in the mid—teens. there's just a hint that sometime later next week, things will settle down at least for a bit. bye— bye. you are watching bbc news. i'm rich preston. our top stories: optimism from health experts as a pill developed to treat severe coronavirus reports positive trial results that could halve the chances of dying. after the murder of sarah everard by a serving police officer, london's metropolitan police tries to regain the public trust. two new streams of lava pose a further threat of destruction as the lipoma volcano forces thousands to flee. —— la palma stop —— la palma. thousands to flee. -- [a palma stop -- la palma.— thousands to flee. -- [a palma stop -- la palma. nobody knows how much _ stop -- la palma. nobody knows how much lover _ stop -- la palma. nobody knows how much lover is _ stop -- la palma. nobody knows how much lover is going - stop -- la palma. nobody knows how much lover is going to - stop -- la palma. nobody knows how much lover is going to flow. how much lover is going to flow into the sea, there is no sign of descending anytime soon. the countdown _ of descending anytime soon. the countdown continues. just hours to go until the combination of your�*s first mission to mercury.

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