let's get the weather with susan powell. the weather has been warmer than average. the weather is set to fall back and wet weather comes in behind this weather front. this weather front is the boundary between the warm air we have been sitting on of lead, which has been feeding from the south and the continent and cooler air that will come in from the atlantic. some of this rain is very heavy over the western side of the uk overnight. out of the way by lunchtime, the majority of us back into the sunshine but the westerly breeze will keep slamming showers into western coast in particular. temperatures across northern scotland, 10 down on the figures we saw on sunday. looking on into the week, plenty showers to come, the theme is cooler and perhaps wednesday is the driest of our week ahead. hello, this is bbc news. the headlines. many forecourts no longer have fuel. the murder of the london schoolteacher, police arrested a 36 —year—old man on suspicion of murder. a good day for sir keir starmer starmer at the labour party conference as his controversial plans on changing leadership rules are narrowly passed. as votes are counted in the german elections, projections suggest the two main parties are neck and neck in the race to succeed chancellor angela merkel. now i'm bbc news, political thinking with nick robinson. welcome to political thinking. where i have a conversation with someone who shapes our political thinking about what has shaped theirs. my guest this week has a pretty daunting task. they have to persuade britain to persuade you that labour can be trusted with your money. rachel reeves, who was made shadow chancellor in may, is used to thinking a few moves ahead. she used to be under ia uk chess champion. maybe she has a winning gambit. rachel reeves, welcome to political thinking. you once said that chess was the perfect preparation for politics. really? it's about getting you to look ahead and think great chess players have to be able to deceive? it great chess players have to be able to deceive? , great chess players have to be able to deceive?— great chess players have to be able to deceive?_ but - great chess players have to be able to deceive?_ but a i to deceive? it is not poker. but a ambit? to deceive? it is not poker. but a gambit? yes. — to deceive? it is not poker. but a gambit? yes. i— to deceive? it is not poker. but a gambit? yes, i didn't _ to deceive? it is not poker. but a gambit? yes, i didn't play - to deceive? it is not poker. but a gambit? yes, i didn't play the i gambit? yes, i didn't play the queens gambit, _ gambit? yes, i didn't play the queens gambit, i— gambit? yes, i didn't play the queens gambit, i was - gambit? yes, i didn't play the queens gambit, i was more . gambit? yes, i didn't play the - queens gambit, i was more sicilian defence. ., ., ., ., defence. you have to forgive me, i am a very — defence. you have to forgive me, i am a very basic — defence. you have to forgive me, i am a very basic chess _ defence. you have to forgive me, i am a very basic chess player. - defence. you have to forgive me, i j am a very basic chess player. what is the sicilian defence? it is am a very basic chess player. what is the sicilian defence?— is the sicilian defence? it is the defence he _ is the sicilian defence? it is the defence he do _ is the sicilian defence? it is the defence he do if _ is the sicilian defence? it is the defence he do if you _ is the sicilian defence? it is the defence he do if you are - is the sicilian defence? it is the| defence he do if you are playing black and the white player moves their king's porn forward to spaces. — pawn. their king's porn forward to spaces. - awn. ., ., ., ., g; ., , - pawn. turn onto radio 3. i read up about the sicilian _ - pawn. turn onto radio 3. i read up about the sicilian defence _ - pawn. turn onto radio 3. i read up about the sicilian defence because i | about the sicilian defence because i knew it was your favourite move. i am told it is turning defence very quickly into attack, is that right? yes, i was an attacking chess player. when you are playing in big tournaments, you get two hours on your clock to do your moves and then get a bit of time later on. i like that, but i did better in speed chess and just going for it. chess and 'ust going for it. where ou chess and just going for it. where you inspired _ chess and just going for it. where you inspired when _ chess and just going for it. where you inspired when he _ chess and just going for it. where you inspired when he watched - chess and just going for it. where j you inspired when he watched the queens gambit on the telly, the series with a young woman, like you, had to overcome a lot of male prejudice?— had to overcome a lot of male re'udice? , . ,, ., ., ,, prejudice? yes, chess was a lot less clamorous prejudice? yes, chess was a lot less glamorous when _ prejudice? yes, chess was a lot less glamorous when i _ prejudice? yes, chess was a lot less glamorous when i played. _ prejudice? yes, chess was a lot less| glamorous when i played. compared prejudice? yes, chess was a lot less i glamorous when i played. compared to what you see in the queens gambit. but chess is incredibly male dominated. it was when i was playing in the 80s and 90s and ill still today. there were these female chess players, the polgar sisters and judith was the best, i think there were three of them. when i was 11 or 12, i think she became the best i2, i think she became the best female player in history and the highest ever rated female player. i think she was the youngest grandmaster and she was absolutely amazing. people started to think, actually, women can be good at chess. but there was a lot of prejudice. one of the earliest chess games i play, it was in my primary school hall and it was a weekend chess tournament. i was sitting across from the other player and his friend came across and said, lucky for you you have got a girl and you will win easily. i was determined to win that game and i did. did will win easily. i was determined to win that game and i did.— win that game and i did. did you 'ust win, win that game and i did. did you just win. or— win that game and i did. did you just win, or did _ win that game and i did. did you just win, or did bobby _ win that game and i did. did you just win, or did bobby fischer, l win that game and i did. did you i just win, or did bobby fischer, one of the great grandmasters said, it is war over the board, the objective is war over the board, the objective is to crush your opponent's mind. did you crush his mind? i is to crush your opponent's mind. did you crush his mind?— is to crush your opponent's mind. did you crush his mind? i don't want to be compared _ did you crush his mind? i don't want to be compared to _ did you crush his mind? i don't want to be compared to bobby _ did you crush his mind? i don't want to be compared to bobby fisher, - did you crush his mind? i don't wantl to be compared to bobby fisher, who had some odd views about many things. i didn't want to crush his mind, iwanted things. i didn't want to crush his mind, i wanted to show girls were just as good as boys. mas mind, i wanted to show girls were just as good as boys.— mind, i wanted to show girls were just as good as boys. was it at home where ou just as good as boys. was it at home where you talked _ just as good as boys. was it at home where you talked politics _ just as good as boys. was it at home where you talked politics a _ just as good as boys. was it at home where you talked politics a lot, - where you talked politics a lot, sitting around the table having your tea or your breakfast and talking politics? b. tea or your breakfast and talking olitics? �* , . , tea or your breakfast and talking olitics? �* , ., , ,. politics? a primary school, about the same age _ politics? a primary school, about the same age when _ politics? a primary school, about the same age when i _ politics? a primary school, about the same age when i was - politics? a primary school, about the same age when i was eight, l politics? a primary school, about - the same age when i was eight, 1987 and it was the general election. my friends were talking about who their parents were going to be voting for in the election. i had no idea what they were talking about. i felt very embarrassed and i went home and i asked my dad. my dad put on the six o'clock news and he said, that is neil kinnock and that is who we will be voting for. i was on my phone to my dad and he said he were massively labour. but he said it must be the 1st time in your life you have done anything i have told you to do. but i do remember it. he anything i have told you to do. but i do remember it.— anything i have told you to do. but i do remember it. he pointed at the tell and i do remember it. he pointed at the telly and said _ i do remember it. he pointed at the telly and said neil _ i do remember it. he pointed at the telly and said neil kinnock - i do remember it. he pointed at the telly and said neil kinnock is - i do remember it. he pointed at the telly and said neil kinnock is our . telly and said neil kinnock is our quy' telly and said neil kinnock is our guy, but were you debating issues, talking about it, or a case of that we are? they were both primary school teachers, and like a lot of people in the public sector at that stage, with mrs thatcher in power, where they labour members? thea;r stage, with mrs thatcher in power, where they labour members? they were never members — where they labour members? they were never members of _ where they labour members? they were never members of political _ where they labour members? they were never members of political parties, - never members of political parties, it wasn't something we talked about hugely at home. but there was also the backdrop, my mum was a special needs teacher, special needs funding was cut. it meant the kids she had been supported, who needed support, did not get it any more. if mrs did not get it any more. if mrs thatcher came _ did not get it any more. if mrs thatcher came on _ did not get it any more. if mrs thatcher came on the - did not get it any more. if mrs thatcher came on the news, l did not get it any more. if mrs l thatcher came on the news, you did not get it any more. if mrs - thatcher came on the news, you may remember she was known as tbw, that bloody woman, is what she was known as? , �* ., ., as? they didn't go out campaigning or an hint as? they didn't go out campaigning or anything like _ as? they didn't go out campaigning or anything like that, _ as? they didn't go out campaigning or anything like that, they - as? they didn't go out campaigning or anything like that, they didn't i or anything like that, they didn't go on demos or anything like that. but my dad's parents who were committed to the salvation army, incredibly good people, hard—working and never had very much. but everything they had, they gave back to the community. they were a big inspiration to me. llirul’ith to the community. they were a big inspiration to me.— to the community. they were a big inspiration to me. with those values drilled into you, _ inspiration to me. with those values drilled into you, even _ inspiration to me. with those values drilled into you, even if _ inspiration to me. with those values drilled into you, even if politics - drilled into you, even if politics wasn't? , , ., ., , wasn't? yes, christian socialist values are _ wasn't? yes, christian socialist values are my _ wasn't? yes, christian socialist values are my values. - wasn't? yes, christian socialist values are my values. i - wasn't? yes, christian socialist values are my values. i was - wasn't? yes, christian socialist - values are my values. i was always brought up that you should give something back, but also you should work as hard as you can to make a contribution.— work as hard as you can to make a contribution. ~ , ., . , ., _ contribution. mrs thatcher, you say, was not contribution. mrs thatcher, you say, was rrot liked — contribution. mrs thatcher, you say, was not liked in _ contribution. mrs thatcher, you say, was not liked in your _ contribution. mrs thatcher, you say, was not liked in your house, - contribution. mrs thatcher, you say, was not liked in your house, but - contribution. mrs thatcher, you say, was not liked in your house, but it . was not liked in your house, but it wasn't that political, when you look back now, what do you think about it? are there things to learn or admire about her, even though there is so much you disagree with? i was is so much you disagree with? i was oliticised is so much you disagree with? i was politicised because _ is so much you disagree with? i was politicised because when _ is so much you disagree with? i was politicised because when i _ is so much you disagree with? iii-”13 politicised because when i was at school there were so many cuts. in the 6th form, we had two prefab huts in the playground. they were never enough textbooks to go round. i lead the conservative governments, we had in the 80s and 90s, they didn't care enough about schools like mine and the kids i grew up with. that is why ijoined the kids i grew up with. that is why i joined the the kids i grew up with. that is why ijoined the labour party, it is those values and that experience that still drives me today.- that still drives me today. there are people _ that still drives me today. there are people who _ that still drives me today. there are people who say, _ that still drives me today. there are people who say, we - that still drives me today. there are people who say, we have . that still drives me today. there are people who say, we have to| that still drives me today. there - are people who say, we have to learn something. but are people who say, we have to learn somethina. �* ., are people who say, we have to learn something-— something. but i would say, iwrote a book about— something. but i would say, iwrote a book about women _ something. but i would say, iwrote a book about women in _ something. but i would say, iwrote a book about women in politics - something. but i would say, iwrote a book about women in politics and | a book about women in politics and obviously, i wrote about thatcher in the book. what made me think, when i was growing up, i knew i didn't like her, i didn't like the direction she was taking the country in. but i never doubted a woman could lead and get the topjob. never doubted a woman could lead and get the top job. there she was doing it. i didn't agree with her politics or her values, but i think in some ways, she inspired women to believe that they could do it. you ways, she inspired women to believe that they could do it.— that they could do it. you have got these working-class _ that they could do it. you have got these working-class values - that they could do it. you have got| these working-class values coming these working—class values coming from your grandparents, coming from that shoe factory. it is a classic middle—class upbringing, probably in south—east london, now known for a slightly more famous daughter. yes. slightly more famous daughter. yes, emma raducanu. _ slightly more famous daughter. yes, emma raducanu. i— slightly more famous daughter. yes, emma raducanu. i have _ slightly more famous daughter. 1a: emma raducanu. i have been eclipsed. charles darwin, enid blyton. my daughter is a huge fan. we have the whole collection of malory towers. i think she has gone through about half of them. think she has gone through about half of them-— half of them. enid blyton as well. it is a half of them. enid blyton as well. it is a very _ half of them. enid blyton as well. it is a very middle-class - it is a very middle—class upbringing, bromley is middle—class, your parents are both teachers. it is not comfortable, i would have thought, was it, as an upbringing? it was ordinary. myself and my younger sister. my parents were good parents, they worked hard. they always put us 1st and they did a huge amount for us. the chest, music lessons, they were good parents who cared about our education and we were lucky in a lot of ways. my secondary school, very few children stayed on to do a—levels, even if you went to university. there were loads of bright girls at my school who, in the past didn't get the opportunity that i had. i want to spread that opportunity. again, i was lucky. my parents, actually the reason i carried on playing the flute, as well as my chest, i carried on going to those lessons and practising every week because i knew it matter to my dad because those lessons were expensive. we didn't have a huge amount of money, but he wanted me to have the best opportunities and start in life. you did, he went _ opportunities and start in life. you did, he went on _ opportunities and start in life. you did, he went on to oxford university. in many ways, this is a classic politician's upbringing. oxford, yes, i went there as well. you did ppe, that is what politicians do, rishi sunak? poles aart. if politicians do, rishi sunak? poles apart- if you _ politicians do, rishi sunak? poles apart. if you went _ politicians do, rishi sunak? poles apart. if you went to _ politicians do, rishi sunak? poles apart. if you went to eton, - politicians do, rishi sunak? poles apart. if you went to eton, it - politicians do, rishi sunak? poles apart. if you went to eton, it is i apart. if you went to eton, it is assumed you go to winchester college or oxford. in year 11, assumed you go to winchester college or oxford. in year", my assumed you go to winchester college or oxford. in year 11, my gcse year, we had a special assembly where the head teacher said, for the 1st time ever to girls from the school have applied to oxford university and i want you to think of them today. i remember those two girls, i remember the names and i remember thinking, maybe i could do that? it never occurred to me before because no one from our school had ever done that before. did from our school had ever done that before. , , ~' ., from our school had ever done that before-_ one - from our school had ever done that before._ one of - from our school had ever done that l before._ one of them before. did they know? one of them who not before. did they know? one of them who got in. — before. did they know? one of them who got in. she _ before. did they know? one of them who got in, she went _ before. did they know? one of them who got in, she went to _ before. did they know? one of them who got in, she went to my - before. did they know? one of them who got in, she went to my college. | who got in, she went to my college. when i had to decide what college i had to apply for, i had never heard of the names of these colleges. i went to the one that they went to, and i thought they have taken girls from my school, it they will take a punt on me. i went there and i said to her, i am here because of you. the idea that you are very different from these tory politicians, rishi sunak, the man who you now shadow, chancellor of the exchequer, middle class, one doctor parent and the other was a pharmacist. spotty kid, but you like rachel reeves, did oxford and ppe, you were at oxford at the same time? i oxford and ppe, you were at oxford at the same time?— at the same time? i 'ust think there is 'ust a at the same time? i 'ust think there isjust a huge h at the same time? i just think there isjust a huge difference. _ at the same time? i just think there isjust a huge difference. yes, - at the same time? i just think there isjust a huge difference. yes, he i isjust a huge difference. yes, he went to winchester college, his parents had a lot of money. they had the money to send him there. we took different routes in life and i think we had very different upbringings. it is interesting, because he made his money in the city. you could have done. you consider thejob at goldman sachs? i have done. you consider the 'ob at goldman sachafi goldman sachs? i was offered two “obs when goldman sachs? i was offered two jobs when i _ goldman sachs? i was offered two jobs when i finished _ goldman sachs? i was offered two jobs when i finished university, . jobs when i finished university, goldman sachs and the bank of england. i chose the bank of england because i wanted to be an economist and also i believed in public service. i learnt a huge amount at the bank. i was on the japan desk analysing the japanese economy at the time they had quantitive easing and 0 interest rates and they had beenin and 0 interest rates and they had been in and out of recession for the best part of a decade. little did i know it would be parallel with our own economy a few years later. what own economy a few years later. what about goldman _ own economy a few years later. what about goldman sachs, _ own economy a few years later. what about goldman sachs, you applied question that yes, i applied to some banks, i wanted to be an economist. did you sit and think, i could work here, i could work at goldman sachs. do you think if the bank of england hadn't have offered you a job, he would have gone to goldman sachs? i would have gone to goldman sachs? i made a choice. you got sick on that, it must be exciting in your 20s, eva secunda to the united states and he worked in washington, dc. it was just post 9/11. the worked in washington, dc. it was just post 9m— worked in washington, dc. it was just post 9/11. the reason why the secondment _ just post 9/11. the reason why the secondment was _ just post 9/11. the reason why the secondment was available - just post 9/11. the reason why the secondment was available was - just post 9/11. the reason why the - secondment was available was because the british government, the civil service wanted to up their capacity at the british embassy in lots of different ways. one of them was this economic analysis. obviously, there were huge problems in the global economy after 9/11 with recession and interest rates cut hugely, both in the us and around the world. i had the privilege of working at the embassy and trying to understand what was going on in the us economy and feeding back to the bank of england and to the treasury. i was 23, living in washington. did england and to the treasury. i was 23, living in washington.— 23, living in washington. did you meet the politicians _ 23, living in washington. did you meet the politicians coming - 23, living in washington. did you i meet the politicians coming across? often a young adviser of yosser would have met the chancellor, gordon brown coming over to washington? i gordon brown coming over to washington?— gordon brown coming over to washinrton? , ~ , washington? i remember mervyn king cominu washington? i remember mervyn king coming ever. — washington? i remember mervyn king coming ever. the _ washington? i remember mervyn king coming ever, the incoming _ washington? i remember mervyn king coming ever, the incoming governor. coming ever, the incoming governor at the bank of england. he came over and he met alan greenspan and i got to go to that meeting. that then governor of the fet in washington. we went into the white house and met the chief economic adviser to the president he read the textbooks that were used at university. it was an amazing opportunity for me. you have onl had amazing opportunity for me. you have only had this — amazing opportunity for me. you have only had this job _ amazing opportunity for me. you have only had this job as _ amazing opportunity for me. you have only had this job as shadow— only had this job as shadow chancellor since may. we haven't got long to persuade people, are you good at saying no? in long to persuade people, are you good at saying no?— long to persuade people, are you good at saying no? in this “ob, you have to. every * good at saying no? in this “ob, you have to. every day, t good at saying no? in this job, you have to. every day, colleagues - good at saying no? in this job, you have to. every day, colleagues will come with really good ideas, but what i say is everything we say we're going to do, i ask, how do we fund it? so that means you have to say no to people because you have to prioritise, what would our priorities be as an incoming labour government? i think around schools, around the nhs and also around jobs for the future, particularly those green industries.— for the future, particularly those green industries. what is the best advice ou green industries. what is the best advice you have _ green industries. what is the best advice you have i? _ green industries. what is the best advice you have i? gordon - green industries. what is the best advice you have i? gordon brown, shadow chancellor, ed balls. shadow chancellor, if they said there was one thing i would do? i chancellor, if they said there was one thing i would do?— chancellor, if they said there was one thing i would do? i have spoken to all of them. _ one thing i would do? i have spoken to all of them. it _ one thing i would do? i have spoken to all of them. it was _ one thing i would do? i have spoken to all of them. it was when - one thing i would do? i have spoken to all of them. it was when i - one thing i would do? i have spoken to all of them. it was when i was - to all of them. it was when i was appointed to thejob. to all of them. it was when i was appointed to the job. gordon, to all of them. it was when i was appointed to thejob. gordon, who i admire a lot, he said you have got to have the discipline, but you have got to have something that is worth being disciplined for. prudence for a purpose, isn't it? that being disciplined for. prudence for a purpose, isn't it?— a purpose, isn't it? that is intriguing _ a purpose, isn't it? that is intriguing in _ a purpose, isn't it? that is intriguing in a _ a purpose, isn't it? that is intriguing in a week- a purpose, isn't it? that is intriguing in a week in - a purpose, isn't it? that is i intriguing in a week in which a purpose, isn't it? that is - intriguing in a week in which the leader has produced this long essay. the criticism of it is, it is not very exciting. it is the task at this conference you've got coming up, is the task about reassurance, don't worry, we have learnt our lesson from those defeats? or is it inspiration, orare lesson from those defeats? or is it inspiration, or are you saying we have got to do both? you inspiration, or are you saying we have got to do both?— inspiration, or are you saying we have got to do both? you have got to do both. have got to do both? you have got to do both- in — have got to do both? you have got to do both- in my _ have got to do both? you have got to do both. in my job, _ have got to do both? you have got to do both. in my job, and _ have got to do both? you have got to do both. in my job, and when - have got to do both? you have got to do both. in my job, and when i- have got to do both? you have got to do both. in my job, and when i was. do both. in myjob, and when i was appointed, keir starmer said people have got to trust you with their money. being trustworthy and being honest and straight with people is important to me. and showing i would treat taxpayer's money with respect. people work hard for their money. my mum keep all of her receipt, she would keep her bank statement and of the receipt against the bank statement. we were not poor, but we didn't have money to waste. she was careful with her money. when you pay your taxes, the chancellor has got to be equally careful. but your taxes, the chancellor has got to be equally careful.— your taxes, the chancellor has got to be equally careful. but you have not to to be equally careful. but you have got to work — to be equally careful. but you have got to work out _ to be equally careful. but you have got to work out why _ to be equally careful. but you have got to work out why you _ to be equally careful. but you have got to work out why you lost. - to be equally careful. but you have got to work out why you lost. you | got to work out why you lost. you wrote a book in 2010, why vote labour could you write a book on why labour could you write a book on why labour lost the election that followed that book. when did you 1st realise, do you remember the moment he realised he was going to lose, it was over? ., ~ , was over? labour keep losing, we have lost four _ was over? labour keep losing, we have lost four elections _ was over? labour keep losing, we have lost four elections in - was over? labour keep losing, we have lost four elections in a - was over? labour keep losing, we have lost four elections in a row. l have lost four elections in a row. only three moments really, 1945, 1964 and 1997 when labour has run and we won big. we made huge change. why have we lost four elections in a row? people didn't trust us. on a whole range of different areas. they prefer the others to us. we have got to look at ourselves and learn those lessons and turn those things around. as clement attlee did, as harold wilson did and as tony blair did. that is what i want to learn from, what we did on those three occasions. i from, what we did on those three occasions. . from, what we did on those three occasions— from, what we did on those three occasions. ., ., ., ,, ., occasions. i want to talk about the ositive in occasions. i want to talk about the positive in a _ occasions. i want to talk about the positive in a 2nd, _ occasions. i want to talk about the positive in a 2nd, but _ occasions. i want to talk about the positive in a 2nd, but we - occasions. i want to talk about the positive in a 2nd, but we need - occasions. i want to talk about the positive in a 2nd, but we need to i positive in a 2nd, but we need to understand what you think went wrong. when i had this conversation with ed miliband, he had just produced his book which was about go big. i put it to him that labour's problem was nothing to do with going big or small, it's because he didn't listen to people and you didn't like lots of people's attitudes. whether it was on immigration, labour appeared veryjudgmental. whether it was on benefits, labour appeared veryjudgmental. there was a sense, clearly on brexit, labour didn't like a lot of the people they needed to vote for them to mark keir starmer recognises this and that is why he spent the summer going up and down the country meeting people who haven't voted for us. fin down the country meeting people who haven't voted for us.— haven't voted for us. on some occasions. _ haven't voted for us. on some occasions. for _ haven't voted for us. on some occasions, for many _ haven't voted for us. on some occasions, for many years - haven't voted for us. on some occasions, for many years and j haven't voted for us. on some i occasions, for many years and on some occasions for some of them, the last election was the 1st time they had voted labour. we have got to take on board what they are saying and change. the labour party isn't a pressure group, it was formed by working people to give a voice to working people to give a voice to working people to give a voice to working people in parliament. we are utterly failing in that mission. there is an intriguing phrase in the pamphlet which has been chosen deliberately. take back control, it is used by keir starmer in his long essay that that's what voters want and he thinks they haven't had, so are you saying in some way to people who voted to leave, i know what you voted leave, i know you wanted to take back control, but you haven't but labour will help you take back control, is that the message? the thing about my constituency, average earnings is about £24,000 a year, 2/3 of the national average, a bit less than that may be. a lot of them are in insecure work and a lot are having to balance work with uncertain hours, with childcare. do people feel they have control in their lives? they certainly don't. do they want more control? absolutely. that is what people want in their lives. when you were on the front bench under ed miliband he said things that would appeal to those sort of voters but got you into trouble, as i recall? you said you didn't want labour to be the party of the unemployed. the ruestion party of the unemployed. the question that _ party of the unemployed. the: question that was put to me, is that what labour is? is thatjust what labour is? they have got to be broader than that, we are the party of working people, labour created the working state —— welfare state to offer a safety net for people when they are out of work. share to offer a safety net for people when they are out of work. are you t in: to when they are out of work. are you trying to say _ when they are out of work. are you trying to say there _ when they are out of work. are you trying to say there is _ when they are out of work. are you trying to say there is a _ when they are out of work. are you trying to say there is a danger - when they are out of work. are you trying to say there is a danger we l trying to say there is a danger we look like the party of welfare, other party of?— look like the party of welfare, other party of? that is what i was bein: other party of? that is what i was being accused _ other party of? that is what i was being accused of— other party of? that is what i was being accused of in _ other party of? that is what i was being accused of in the _ other party of? that is what i was j being accused of in the interview, labour had become a very narrow party and i wanted to say no, we are broader than that. but some things and the way i express them did cause her to people. i never meant to do that. the labour party is a party of ordinary people and it did amazing things like improving education, the health service and the welfare state, to give working—class people those things they didn't have before. ~ . , , those things they didn't have before. ~ ., , , ., ~ before. what is interesting talking to ou before. what is interesting talking to you about _ before. what is interesting talking to you about some _ before. what is interesting talking to you about some of _ before. what is interesting talking to you about some of the - before. what is interesting talking to you about some of the things i before. what is interesting talking l to you about some of the things you spoke of it when you wear on the front bench under ed miliband, arguably, whyjeremy corbyn left you on the backbenches then, there were people at that time who called you a red tory, suggested you weren't welcome in the labour party? t tihd welcome in the labour party? i find that very difficult. _ welcome in the labour party? i find that very difficult. i _ welcome in the labour party? i find that very difficult. i find _ welcome in the labour party? i find that very difficult. i find it - welcome in the labour party? t t “tc that very difficult. i find it very difficult because ijoined the labour party when i was 17 and i have been in the labour party for 25 years. i love the labour party, i love its traditions and its history. when people said that to me i felt, it was my family, don't tell me i don't belong here, it is where i have always been. ifound don't belong here, it is where i have always been. i found that very hard. very hard at conference after jeremy corbyn became leader, people shouting at me. jeremy corbyn became leader, people shouting at me— shouting at me. people screaming at ou? yes, shouting at me. people screaming at you? yes. i— shouting at me. people screaming at you? yes, i found _ shouting at me. people screaming at you? yes, i found that _ shouting at me. people screaming at you? yes, i found that very - you? yes, i found that very difficult- — you? yes, i found that very difficult. you _ you? yes, i found that very difficult. you look- you? yes, i found that very l difficult. you look emotional you? yes, i found that very - difficult. you look emotionaljust difficult. you look emotional 'ust remembering�* difficult. you look emotional 'ust remembering it. i difficult. you look emotional 'ust remembering it. yes, i difficult. you look emotional 'ust remembering it. yes, i i difficult. you look emotionaljust remembering it. yes, i found - difficult. you look emotionaljust remembering it. yes, i found it. difficult. you look emotionaljust . remembering it. yes, i found it very difficult because _ remembering it. yes, i found it very difficult because i _ remembering it. yes, i found it very difficult because i love _ remembering it. yes, i found it very difficult because i love the - remembering it. yes, i found it very difficult because i love the labour i difficult because i love the labour party. i have been delivering leaflets and knocking on doors for 25 years. many people had just joined for the 1st time telling me this wasn't my party. you joined for the 1st time telling me this wasn't my party.— this wasn't my party. you were once branded as — this wasn't my party. you were once branded as what _ this wasn't my party. you were once branded as what is _ this wasn't my party. you were once branded as what is called _ this wasn't my party. you were once branded as what is called the - branded as what is called the nando's five, five rising stars in the backbenches. check at the moon did leave the party. luca; the backbenches. check at the moon did leave the party.— did leave the party. lucy was hounded out _ did leave the party. lucy was hounded out of— did leave the party. lucy was hounded out of the _ did leave the party. lucy was hounded out of the party. . did leave the party. lucy was hounded out of the party. i l did leave the party. lucy was i hounded out of the party. i feel hounded out of the party. ifeel emotion about this, imagine how she felt. her great uncle was a labour mp, managing well. she is from the labour party, from that tradition. do you want to welcome her back? t do you want to welcome her back? i would love to welcome her back into the labour party. she is still a friend of mine and i would love to welcome her back. whether she would want to come back, you would have to ask her. d0 want to come back, you would have to ask her. ~' want to come back, you would have to ask her. ~ ., ask her. do you think you got the labour party _ ask her. do you think you got the labour party back _ ask her. do you think you got the labour party back from _ ask her. do you think you got the labour party back from the - ask her. do you think you got the labour party back from the party| ask her. do you think you got the l labour party back from the party it was? t labour party back from the party it was? , ., ., , was? i stayed in the labour party because i believe, _ was? i stayed in the labour party because i believe, in _ was? i stayed in the labour party because i believe, in some - was? i stayed in the labour party because i believe, in some of - was? i stayed in the labour partyj because i believe, in some of the darkest hours, i think anti—semitism was our darkest hour, i believed there was a way back for labour. some people made different choices and i understand why they made them and i understand why they made them and lucy felt she had no choice, she was hounded out the party. ifeel like we have turned a corner on that now and i am proud of the small contribution i guess i made to that. but i am really proud to be a labour mp and really proud to be in keir starmer�*s shadow cabinet. you mp and really proud to be in keir starmer's shadow cabinet. you got labelled, starmer's shadow cabinet. you got labelled. and _ starmer's shadow cabinet. you got labelled, and you _ starmer's shadow cabinet. you got labelled, and you will— starmer's shadow cabinet. you got labelled, and you will probably - labelled, and you will probably groan when i mentioned this, you got labelled by an accidental treat from the editor of newsnight, what did he say? tie the editor of newsnight, what did he sa ? ., , the editor of newsnight, what did he sa? ,., say? he said i was boring snoring. it wasn't written _ say? he said i was boring snoring. it wasn't written to _ say? he said i was boring snoring. it wasn't written to you, _ say? he said i was boring snoring. it wasn't written to you, to - say? he said i was boring snoring. it wasn't written to you, to be - it wasn't written to you, to be fair? he is head of channel 4, very important man. fair? he is head of channel4, very important man-— fair? he is head of channel4, very important man. channel 4 is welcome in leeds. important man. channel 4 is welcome in leeds- lt — important man. channel 4 is welcome in leeds- it is — important man. channel 4 is welcome in leeds. it is a _ important man. channel 4 is welcome in leeds. it is a mistake _ important man. channel 4 is welcome in leeds. it is a mistake and - important man. channel 4 is welcome in leeds. it is a mistake and you - in leeds. it is a mistake and you all think, there but for the grace of god go i. all of us could have done that. you mean to send a text message, but you put it on twitter. should shadow chancellor be boring snoring? there is a feeling that you should be ever so slightly boring? there are worse criticisms at the door of a chancellor. tt there are worse criticisms at the door of a chancellor.— there are worse criticisms at the door of a chancellor. if you could be a chess _ door of a chancellor. if you could be a chess piece, _ door of a chancellor. if you could be a chess piece, what _ door of a chancellor. if you could be a chess piece, what would - door of a chancellor. if you could be a chess piece, what would it | door of a chancellor. if you could i be a chess piece, what would it be? i think i would be the queen. the most powerful — i think i would be the queen. the most powerful piece on the board. i think i would be the queen. the i most powerful piece on the board. i want to be the clean and to get the opponent in checkmate. if you're asking, do i want to be leader of the labour party, that is never something i have aspired to do. the job i want more than anything else is to be chancellor and i think it is to be chancellor and i think it is a job i am well qualified to do. takes off glasses, politician who doesn't want to reach the top. rachel reeves, thank you forjoining me. thank you. if chess is like politics, if it is a form of game, the truth is, we are more than halfway through it. the next election could be in spring 2023 and labour find themselves on the defensive. the tories have already claimed some crucial pieces. have the labour party got the moves up their sleeves in here to take advantage? to seize victory from defeat? next week, at the conference we might get the 1st answer to that. that is it from this edition of political thinking. thank you for watching. room, we don't know what will happen — hello, i'm ross adkins. we are live in berlin. as votes are counted in germany's parliament election, the social democrats hold a narrow lead in the race to succeed angela merkel. the social democrats are both predicted to have around a quarter of the votes. as for the greens, we sawjoy and jubilation among their members as polls suggest, they have made significant gains compared with the last election. however, the coalition government emerges. it will face the challenge following on a 15 years of angela merkel�*s leadership, in whichever way the coalition go as well have a profound impact