evidence that would i think ensure an impeachment vote, and potentially move the senate. and we know of course of assan assange s connections to the wikileak, and we know of the wikileaks connection no the russian military intelligence and according to previous mueller indictments that is alleged, and we also know that manafort certainly was involved in changing the platt form to be highly favorable to russia in its interests gaiagainst ukrain we know all of that and we also know that in the other area of most active effort by mueller right now that jerome corsi and roger stone likely had knowledge of the hacking, too, and that could have been coordinated with the campaign, and so we are a really potentially at the epicenter of the what has been missing to date which is the tie-in to russi
antithesis of his own self-realization. he s doing this for a reason but we don t know what the specific reason is. is he trying to hide a conversation with somebody who is significant, whether it be somebody in the family or somebody who was at the trump tower meeting for example? we don t know that yet but we do know he s acting irrationally because of what barbara just said. one last question to you, barbara, on lying and manafort, if there are surveillance tapes that could potentially show him walking into the ecuadorian embassy again, another big if. we don t know if they exist, presumably they would if he did walk into that embassy, why would he lie about it? what would be the motivation? lie about going to the embassy, i think it connects him and potentially the campaign directly to assange. everyone knows it was wikileaks and assange who published those e-mails. if you see him going in and meeting with assange, it does provide a very strong link between the campaign. if
prove. we will know at some point whether paul manafort did or did not visit with julian assange at the embassy in london. you make a good point about that. as anyone who s been to london knows, that entire city is under surveillance and i imagine one of the places that you would have surveillance, a camera, is the front door to the ecuadorian embassy that i imagine british intelligence would be watching and maybe american intelligence would be watching. that is the sort of thing you could state definitively, he was there or not there. that s right. with a person of interest like assange in that building, you can rest assured there are a lot of eyes on it and this will be something that eventually will come out, whether he was there or not. there s a reason assange steps outside of that building because he knows or believes he will be arrested immediately. correct. and certainly manafort and wikileak do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. p having said that, there s no other
but telling us manafort s testimony is no good because he s a serial liar. meanwhile, nbc news has obtained a draft court document sent to one of roger stone s associates, which includes an e-mail asserting stone sought documents from wikileaks in 2016 and then he was told by an sort that wikileaks would be releasing information damaging to the clinton campaign, which as you all know, it did. i m joined by barbara mcquade, who is an msnbc contributor and former u.s. attorney. she is here with tonight s panel, jonathan, nbc news political analyst and ap white house reporter. a former clinton campaign adviser and susan del percio, msnbc political analyst and republican strategist. barbara, i do want to get this straight from you, there are a lot of different prongs to the news out today. there s the manafort lying,
campaign chairman paul manafort. the guardian is reporting according to unnamed sources manafort held a number of talks with wikileak s julian assange, including in the weeks of 2016, just months before they published the trove of campaign e-mails hacked by the russians. through a spokesman this afternoon, wikileaks is vehemently denying the report saying in part, this report is totally false and deliberately libelist. i have never met julian asanction or anyone connected to him. i have never been contacted by anyone from wikileaks either directly or indirectly. i have never reached out to assange or wikileaks on any matter. wikileaks and assange are also denying the story, and for its part, the white house say they remain confident that the president wasn t involved in any wrongdoing. but let s just step back for a moment. because if the guardian sources are right, it would mean