dealing with rudy was going in a bad direction of this stuff. i ve heard nothing new. have you been listening? i have. i have. talking about ukrainians, this is a political article, 10,000 words, really well researched by ken vogle. just to read it. it s really important. this starts out. the headline is, you know, ukrainian efforts to sabotage the president backfired. when was that? 2017, right after the election. ken vogle, 10,000 words. ukrainian officials tried to help hillary clinton undermine trump by questioning his fitness for office. hold on. why would you read something that you know has been debunked by your own intelligence? no, no. i m not saying that they did not the russians did not interfere. you re reading something that undermines the finding of the intelligence community. no, i m not. chris, hold on. to distort a reality. can i chime in here? david i have heard
eliot nest. there s no one to this administration that s untouchable. when benedict arnold gave the plans to west point and they captured major andre, they didn t have any real plaevidenc linking those plans to benedict arnold. every one knew it was treason when they caught the man and they hung him. at some point there s going to be a bridge of data that will be unassailable. if donald trump through a series of coindens knew nothing about the myriad of basic activities around him that started back in 2012 and end up with multiple indictments around him then i ve got a bridge to sell you in brooklyn. ken, are we as tough as george washington. when he was head of the arm he hanged that guy. no.
that s part of what mueller seems to be trying to figure out is whether russia is trying to use manafort to sort of push trump further on this. trump had already said a number of things. there was already reason for russia to believe that trump would be a better president for them than hillary clinton. what we see here, potentially, if this is, in fact, sort of blessed out reach by russia through this guy through the trump campaign through paul manafort is an effort to figure out whether they could get buy in on a plan or plans that could give them what they wanted from a president. you find out a guy wants to give you 10,000 bucks, you go back to him for 100,000. trump sees they want to help, they ll help me even more if i do certain things. then you re talking about a quid pro quo. i think ken s article is really good. it gets to the point of where was there an effort by russia.
the trump campaign and the kremlin. to that point, the times reports a closer look at the transcript from that hearing shows that the prosecutors have been keenly focused on discussions the two men had about a plan to end the conflict that followed russia s invasion of ukraine. that so called peace plan for ukraine was so sensitive that manafort lied to prosecutors about discussing it. it may explain what russia expected in return, the unprecedented help they lent donald trump and his campaign against donald trump. i m joined by ken vogle, malcolm nance. the central question is did russia try to help trump and did trump try to help russia?
report that came out from the new york times according to what ken vogle is reporting the fbi and bruce ohr working along together were trying to see how they might get russian oligarchs on to well flip on our side if you would, the u.s. side. what is this process like? and why would they want it? this is a very interesting development. we need to understand when we talk about.laundering when it comes to russia, there is a different perspective they have on this. for russia, laundering money is how russian intelligence can move money into places they want to effect operation, when you think of oligarchs or business men that might run a cash business, they recruit with an asset unlike le the purpose to check intelligence, russian intelligence recruits people with lapdering, that is to move russian money.