>> that's part of what mueller seems to be trying to figure out is whether russia is trying to use manafort to sort of push trump further on this. trump had already said a number of things. there was already reason for russia to believe that trump would be a better president for them than hillary clinton. what we see here, potentially, if this is, in fact, sort of blessed out reach by russia through this guy through the trump campaign through paul manafort is an effort to figure out whether they could get buy in on a plan or plans that could give them what they wanted from a president. >> you find out a guy wants to give you 10,000 bucks, you go back to him for 100,000. trump sees they want to help, they'll help me even more if i do certain things. >> then you're talking about a quid pro quo. i think ken's article is really good. it gets to the point of where was there an effort by russia.