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Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 08:20:00

but for the heartbreak. it was julie-lynn who told tanya what happened. and she said, tanya, cathy s dead. she s not alive anymore. she died. i remember falling to the ground and i said, what do you mean she s dead? reporter: cathy s friend julie-lynn felt not just for herself but for todd, too. and i wanted to console him and just let him know that we were there for him, supporting him, anything we could do for him. and he never returned any of my calls. reporter: tanya tanya tried to call him, too. for a different reason. it just didn t add up. my phone call was strictly to figure out and to pick his brain and ask questions. reporter: because, by then, tanya was a cop herself, who knew a little something about suspicious behavior. did i think he was going to answer that phone? no, and let me tell you, i tried

Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 08:29:00

reporter: it also seemed strange he said that by the time the campers saw todd, he displayed no evidence of an allergic reaction. of course, lisette suder and her people interviewed mike and woody too. and they told her, as they told us, that they never forgot how strangely phony todd seemed when he arrived at their campsite that night. he was kind of kinda play-sobbing, i would say, you know? it was it was some horrible acting going on. it wasn t believable. reporter: they also wondered why, on a warm southern night, was todd dressed in several layers of heavy clothing? was he protecting himself from a fall he knew he was going to cause? he had a lot of extra clothing on. but i also remember he also had a toboggan hat on. reporter: the kind you pull down over your ears. the kind yes. and i m standin there in a t-shirt, shorts, and flip flops. reporter: also, why did the accident happen on the one spot in the whole drive that offered

Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 08:32:00

that it was a real accident, and the authorities there couldn t show that it wasn t a real accident. so why was it worth you looking at it again? well, we knew a lot more about todd winkler at this point. we knew a lot more about how he goes about getting what he wants. reporter: the more she learned about cathy winker s death the more it seemed to her that todd must have planned it all. just as the evidence here in california was telling her that the killing of rachel winkler more than a decade later was a case of history, todd winkler s history, repeating itself. but if she had some crusading idea of finding justice in that old case, and using it to solidify her own here in california, she d have to persuade a judge, first. coming up disorder in the court. this is a case about a

Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 08:19:00

statement, to go outside to use the restroom. and as he came back to the tent, he realized that he had been bitten by something or was having some type of reaction, that his throat was closing up and a sort of anaphylactic shock type reaction? well, that that s what i described it as. and she takes him out to this toyota pickup, if i remember correctly. he s crawling on his hands and knees at this point and having all these symptoms of some type of allergic reaction. reporter: johnson mostly just observed, he said, as the georgia bureau of investigation looked into what happened. but took no action. and eventually, the coroner ruled cathy s death an accident. and then the life insurance company did the same. and as the more than half million dollar policy on cathy s life was a double indemnity, it paid double in the case of an accident. todd got close to $1.2 million. and the case was closed.

Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 07:30:00

husband whose mere existence was an impediment to their happiness, but wrapped up in the fog of their loved, they began talking about running away from it all, together. and then, it was just about a year into their affair, oh, no. she was pregnant. with todd s baby. so, did rachel and james and it then? why, no. they did not. what did it do to your relationship? brought us closer. she said to me, who in their right mind would want to take a woman with two toddlers and an infant? i said i would. without hesitation. she started crying and so did i. how did she feel about caring todd s baby? she said that the life in her was a gift from god and no matter who the father was she would love the baby no matter

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