what kind of articles of impeachment could be drawn up in this process, and, you know, you have to remember, right, this began in a way for us to give the public the opportunity to understand and move along in this process with us, and as we go into the second phase, they will get to do that more. you have previously advocated for impeaching this president on other grounds before the ukraine bribery plot was exposed. what is your current thinking on how narrow or broad to advance impeachment? i know your colleagues have had some of this debate. we ve seen discussion of ukraine, obstruction of justice, do you include mueller or not, the issues around corruption and emoluments, as well as the question whether the president s exposed bigotry and racism, including we should mention against you, among others,
things like possible obstruction and emoluments and things like that? i think they want to make sure that all options are on the table. not just with this whole ukrainian probe, but also with the mueller probe. they did feel there is a case of obstruction of justice. but what i think nancy pelosi tried to outline is that there was a bribe that took place and that is mentioned in the constitution as a potentially impeachable offense. and they want to sell this to the american public, not just that this was a quid pro quo. this was a prescribe from a person of power withholding military aid that was so desperately needed for ukraine to stave off russian aggression and a bribe is an impeachable offense.
as we go forward is this kind of moot? do you want to just see these proceedings sort of end the house vote and and get into what we think will be the inevitable next step, and that s the trial in the senate? yeah. look, i mean, i think we can analyze all of what s about to happen to death. but i think the outcome here is really certain. and the house is going to do what it s going do. i think the only thing i m wondering about is are they going to get so full of themselves that they re going to add on a bunch of arlgs of impeachment that date back to other issues that they care about. you know at the beginning of this, pelosi said that it would be tightsly focused and bipartisan. the bipartisanship s out the window. now, i m wondering are they going to go back to the mueller report, are they going to get into emoluments, are they going to get into his tweets, you know, all the things they ve wanted to impeach the president for. i m not sure what the democrats have to lose honest
determines of the democrats and their process, what articles of impeachment, do you think they ll keep it simple? leave off other things like mueller report, stuff regarding possible obstruction. perhaps emoluments? i think you re right, michael, in the most straightforward terms as possible that it s all about ukraine and presidential abuse of power. certainly, they could throw the kitchen sink at donald trump and they would have ever right to do so. i think in terms of making a cogent article to the american people it makes much more sense to keep it straightforward and as simple as possible. one of the charges that rose with the mueller report, that was so much complexity and so much going on, i think the democrats want to avoid this. i think you have to ask about afghanistan, it s important, donald trump when he was
inquiry, emoluments and others. i think that a ruling like this, which does strike at the heart of the white house stand of denying testimony from anybody, including key figures in the ukrainian matter like bolton, mulvaney, others, it would seem to increase the argument or enhance the argument of maybe we should take this further and justifiable point on that, if they don t and they go forward with the impeachment just on the ukraine janish use and the result is what everybody now expects, which is an acquittal of the president by the republican controlled senate, there will be an argument, well, if only we were able to bring the full case and if only we could get all the tnl from key individuals, the outcome might have been different. maybe. i don t know if you share my