The days biggest political and news stories, with interviews and reporting from around the nation. Thoug a sense the timing of the conversation was while the Manafort Trial was under way . Im going to credit Rudy Giuliani in his last corrected statement in which he says to me that he believes it was quite a bit longer before the trial. Now, manafort was facing a lot of charges in a pretty damning case of tax evasion and bank fraud. It was fairly, you know, high odds that he was going to be convicted based on those case based on those charges and the evidence that the government had. But, again, im just going to let giuliani say what he wants to say, which is that now he remembers it really probably was in june rather than in august. So further along than recently. Did you get a sense at all, carol, from your conversation with Rudy Giuliani as to why today did he mention this . Hes obviously given a lot of interviews in the past. Was it your reading of his intent that maybe he was tryin
again, good on them. they re going to see us through. ambassador. elizabeth holtsman. thanks to both of you. now, i want to bring in congressman who was the chief deputy of the democratic congress. i have a lot of stuff i want to get to. but let me pick up where we left off, which is on impeachment and some pretty big statements today. both by the acting chief of staff, mick mull vain dwvaney, gordon sondland, who is continuing to testify where you are on capitol hill. do you see this changing the equation at all? where do you see impeachment heading and how quickly? well, i think it certainly creating more momentum. i think many of us came to the conclusion that by the president s own admission, he had committed acts that were by themselves impeachable. but, of course, all the while denying no quid pro quo, which is not a prerequisite to a crime having been committed. but then to see mick mulvaney doing what i think is essentially a controlled burn, trying to get it out there and
civil servants who are proving, and our foreign service personnel in particular, on whose shoulders the syria saga is going to fall. we live in a healthy democracy because we have an ethical and competent civil service and foreign service. i want my grandchildren to grow up like them. so notwithstanding the political let us be grateful for a moment for those people who are keeping us going under tremendously different difficult circumstances. so, elizabeth holtsman, i think the picture is becoming clearer of the way that president trump and not just circumvented all traditional avenues. you have somebody like a rudy giuliani who has no security clearance, who has no role, formal role, in the white house. but is the president s personal lawyer. essentially, directing foreign policy.
in if trump is doing this thing now, uncover dirt on an opponent with the election more than a year away, what s he going to be willing do to do in september 2020? i want to bring in michelle goldberg with the new york times. former congresswoman elizabeth holtsman. and david scrojolly, former republican from georgia who since left the party. michell michelle, this feels qualitatively different than things that came before. why it you think? i think people who have been resistant to impeachment so far is starting to find nancy pelosi s position untenable. until now, there s been a couple different lines from people who want to avoid impeachment. they ve either said that we have to protect the frontline members, right, at this isn t making them do this will endanger them. that changes when the frontline members, themselves, start coming out for impeachment then there s been this argument that you ll sometimes hear from
coordinating a cover-up of all of that. this is why the house was given the tool not to punish but to charge. right. the question is, should the house charge? and for those who say, well, the senate won t convict, would you rather live in a world in which nobody tries to hold this president accountable, or at least the house does? well, and the final point i d make here is to sort of go back to arguing the other side is the idea of the politics of 2020 are separate from the president s actions is a little bit blown up by this. because if he can do this and go around the world, i mean, he s going to call up bin salman and be like, hey, what do the saudis have for me, who can you hack? the argument against impeachment has been the only way you remove him is in 2020 and that s true. you might need impeachment to at least curtail. that s right. right. if he feels he can get away with whar whatever he wants to dorks he, going to keep doing it. michelle goldberg, elizabeth