0 >> all right, david, thank you. we have a bit more breaking news to add to this, the pentagon spokesman saying we can confirm the explosion at a gate was the result of a complex attack that resulted in a number of u.s. and civilian casuacasualties. another explosion a short distance from the abbey gate also took place. our breaking news coverage continues now with craig melvin. good thursday morning. craig melvin here. we continue to follow breaking news in afghanistan. explosion outside of the airport in kabul. expected to be an ied attack. word a few moments ago from pentagon spokesman. another explosion near by at a hotel. while they have no confirmation who is behind it, the assumption is that it was caused by isis-k. a splinter group of isis. that group considered to be an adversary of the taliban. the airport already on high alert because of a threat attributed to that group. just in the last few minutes john kirby saying the explosion near the abbey gate at the kabul airport resulted in a number of unknown casualties. we know the president has been briefed on the situation. president biden along with members of his national security team right now are talking, of course, about these two explosions but also about the deadline, just five days left until that august 31st deadline. americans had been warned to leave those gates immediately. in fact in an update, there is roughly 1500 americans still in afghanistan. mike memoli is at the white house. gabe gutierrez is at the white house. i'm also joined by jack jacobs. an msnbc military analyst. mike, let me start with you an unknown number of casualties. we know president biden is monitoring the situation right now. what more do we know? >> we have the first indication of how they are changing things in terms of the schedule. the briefing scheduled for this morning has been postponed. the president as he has every day this week has had a standing meeting to discuss the latest developments. he was in the situation room when this explosion was first reported. he remains in the situation room as we understand from white house officials to be monitoring the latest developments. this is obviously a significant set back to what has been the escalating, accelerating efforts on the part of this administration to evacuate as many americans, as many afghan partners as possible. quickly ahead of that august 31st deadline. the president asked him team to provide contingency planning. we also know the team had been closely monitoring that potential terrorist threat. all indications now that there has not been a formal retribution, the speculation is that it is from isis-k. the affiliate based in afghanistan. when the president first addressed the withdrawal of u.s. troops in july, one of his last speeches ahead of the fall of the kabul government, he talked about the fact that they have been working as far ahead of the timeline as possible. the stilt was that 6,000 americans were on the ground. now the president later today is scheduled to welcome the prime minister. significant when you remember the first significant foreign policy crisis. he was also scheduled this afternoon to hold a virtual discussion with governors, especially those in states that were broadcasting that they were welcoming refugees to their shores and their states. that would be the first opportunity for the public to potentially hear from the president, but the president remains with his national security team based on the most recent info that we have, craig. >> okay, president biden in the situation room right now. mike, don't go far. i want to come back to you in just a moment. colonel jacobs, stand by, i want to put up the map, i'm struck by something that we heard yesterday and i want to make sure i read it to get it right here. it is hard to overstate the complexity and the danger of the effort. we're operating in a hostile environment in a city and country now controlled by the taliban with a very real possibility of a isis attack. we're taking every precaution, but this is very high risk, colonel, what goes through your mind when you hear about an explosion a the airport, at this gate, and more. >> a sufficient number of troops to secure the area and to be quite honest a lately developed plan to do so. the risk gets magnified considerably. any terrorist with a explosive device or a weapon can easily be in the crowd. our late arooefl to execute the evacuation plan and the unsufficient plan that we have to secure the airfield. we have had warnings from the apparatus for a long time, not just recently. and the director of national intelligence told the president in the past that this would happen. and the likelihood was that there would be infiltration. it was extremely dangerous and complicated. that's the problem you have when you lose the element of surprise. the time to be elevating is not during the fighting season when all of the taliban, isis, and everybody else is crawling all over the place, but in the wintertime when the enemy is disbursed in valleys, in villages, nanny pac dan, and it makes it much easier to evacuate. not in august. when you advertise when you're leaving, this sort of thing happens. don't forget that the end date, everybody believes, is not one that was invented by the administration. it was one that was negotiated by the previous administration and verified by this administration. and when you have an advertised date certain that gives you insufficient time to gather your assets and leave, this sort of thing will happen, craig. >> stand by for me if you can, sir. we want to go to courtney kube. again, i know you a number of sources there at the pentagon. we just heard from just a kirby confirming that the explosion at the abbey gate was the result of a complex attack that resulted in a number of u.s. and civilian casual casualties. he also went on to confirm one other explosion at or near the baron ho tell that is a short distance from that abbey gate. what more do we know at this point? >> what the military usually means is that multiple methods of attack. john kirby saying that is what that most likely means. it was coordinated in numerous locations to inflict the maximum amount of potential carnage as possible. so we know there was at least two explosions that occurred. one was at the abbey gate. another was at the baron hotel, it is about 150 meters. it is a hotel that is frequented by westerners, particularly americans and british. and a place where u.s. and others had been meeting in recent days to gather together into a group when they get the word they have permission to go through the abbey gate, they have been meeting at the hotel and walking over there together. so it is certainly a place that -- >> sorry, craig? >> yeah, just really quickly we wanted to make sure we had it out right now. they confirmed the abc news confirming a suicide attack killed 13 people including children and many others are hurt. the taliban went on to say that italian military personnel were at the gate where the blast took place and that u.s. officials moved their people inside of the airport "a few minutes before the blast happened." that came from a taliban source. 13 dead so far, scores of others hurt. let's take a step back and realize that is information coming from the taliban so we need to take it with a bit of a grain of salt. i will say they have been out in front in the last several weeks, they have been out in front of many of the operations going there. this is what is going on around kabul. the taliban and the u.s. have been coordinates. the taliban and this version of isis in kabul are enemies. . they are sworn enemies, they would not want isis to carry it out. they are running checks around that airport. and they're responsible for that security. so if isis was able to carry out an attack and kill afghan civilians, it is essentially a black eye for the taliban to carry that out. we're trying to figure out that u.s. officials are generally at the abbey gate. were any of the injured or killed military or civilians who were working that gate? the gates have been closed in recent hours because of the ongoing security threat that really stepped up in the last 12 to 24 hours. we're trying to figure out if anyone was hurt on killed. >> this splinter group of isis, worn enemies of the taliban, what more can you tell us about this particular terror group isis-k. >> well, craig, as you mentioned their a splinter group of isis. when isis made all of those gains in iraq and syria, they want widen their footprint. so they move into afghanistan around 2014-2015. and immediately got into a fight with the taliban. it was about 2017 and basically made significant investments. but the numbers still remained in afghanistan. there is about 200 or 300 of them. several dozen of them may have been in the prisons that were sort of like the doors flung open when kabul fell, and they're a very hardened bunch of people. they're very extreme. they have an extremely harsh interpretation of the law, and we have been expecting this threat from them. it has been going on several days now. it's important not just to hit americans, but just after your reporting, women and children were killed. there is a lot of women and children they targeted as well. they really don't care who they take down there. they want to cause as much chaos as possible and that is what they have done today. one of the big fears is that as soon as america pulls out of afghanistan, it's a breeding ground for troops like isis. so this is a very, very worrying turn of events. this will become very regular occurrence, especially for u.s. troops there. a suicide attack is well win this guy's mo. they are expendable. they are trying to accomplish a foothold in afghanistan like they did in iraq and syria. >> we should tell folks at home what we're see e.g. right now. this is what we just got in. it is not clear to me in this is video from outside of abbey gate or from outside of the hotel. the pentagon confirmed that there are u.s. casualties and there are also afghan civilian casualties. the pentagon did not confirm the number but at the gate, a complex attack responsible for the deaths and scores of others who are hurt. what do you think this will do for the time line five days from now. we're supposed to be out of that country, does that change that in any way. >> of course the united states would love to have the timeline extended. but i'm not quite surgeon they will not be able to get that done without giving up something in return. the problem also is that when you have a complex attack like that it drives power forces and allied forces inside the gates and makes it much more difficult than to secure the airport around the airfield. more people that want to get out will be less likely to get out. there is unconfirmed reports of us welding shut the gates to make sure no one gets in from the outside because we have no assurance without thoroughly examining them which those things are not terrorists as well. it is unlikely that this will be the last attack or complex attack even that we are going to see in the next couple of days. it slows everything down ands it more important that we get the data extended, craig. >> courtney, help folks understand. the splinter group is responsible for them, sworn enemies of the taliban again. why would they be trying to stop the evacuation process or slow it or hinder it in any way. >> again, if isis is behind this and it would make sense -- and this is the threat there has been in the last week, that they would try to carry out something like this. specifically this gate where americans are going through. that would point towards this. let's look at who the terror threats are. they are providing security in kabul. this is a big blackeye. when the taliban has the best of the best. they have special ops guys providing security. this is carried out with them there and this is potentially a black eye. there is always the al qaeda presence, they could have motivation for this as well. so what this does is this slows down and right now is putting a complete wrench in any u.s. evacuation efforts. this is a goal for attacking the west. people like americans, the british, others who have been operating there. this putting a big wrench in any efforts to get americans out that also works towards isis goals. they want to not just hurt americans be the taliban. isis and the taliban have been fighting in the eastern part of afghanistan for the past several years and you could argue there are elements of isis right now who would prefer to hurt the taliban over america right now. they have been fighting so viciously in parts of eastern afghan. in many cases the taliban have been hurting isis, they have been stopping their operations for the past several years. it would be on the side of isis. we have to say very clear they the u.s. is not saying out any certainty we don't know how many casualties there may be and they will deal with it later. >> yeah, and we should also point out for folks that may be unaware there was a scheduled pentagon briefing scheduled for 10:30. that briefing has been, as i understand, delayed indefinitely. >> they will brief us as some point today. they have been talking to us, most days, twice a day for the past week or so. this was all coming out when they were trying to brief us. it is quickly evolving. we got first word about potential explosions and that was just of one explosion and it has been just unfolding since then. >> courtney, please stand by. first of all, let's just start with your initial reaction. they are at least 13 dead so far. scores of others hurt. what is your initial reaction. >> i think a likely culprit is isis k. but isis k certainly is, and they know that the eyes of the world right now are in the airport. this there is a lot of individuals. fraen a security standpoint this it is nearly a nightmare scenario. the attackers would find a way to get close to the gate so they can carry throughout attack. it is a complex attack, and it seems to be coordinated with the attack as well. i think they're taking advantage of what they see as attack opportunities but also an opportunity to embarrass the skunts and to also undermine, i guess the taliban efforts, if they're honest ones, and try to maintain some security around that airport until the 31st of this month. i think it also underscores the emphasis that the biden administration placed on getting out as quickly as possible. now that they made the decision. trying to ensure the safety and security of individuals inside of the airport and on the outside have exceptionally difficult because they do not have any type of presence outside of the airport that they can industry to mitigate those efforts before they reach the gates. >> help folks understand the relationship between isis k and the original isis, if you will, the group that we all came to know and hate in the wake of 9/11. >> when isis grew ut out of al qaeda and iraq, it had explosive growth. so there was isis franchises that cropped up. and different extremist groups, fanatics, tried to take advantage of that isis banner and tried to carry out their types of abilities where they live. so they're in the central asia area. . there is murderous individuals trying to lash out at what they see as the western influences in the air and will attack whoever standing in the way. and they have been battling for the last several years. i think by carrying out these attacks they're trying to attract more as they continue to carry out this agenda of theirs. >> momentum and land as well, are they looking to establish that? >> i think they would like to control as much territory as possible and establish a caliphate so they can impose this very harsh version on the areas they control. the depth of the fanaticism, a lot of the isis elements and syria and iraq. they are a represent henceble group. i think the responsibility given the chaos, using the abilities they have. they carry out this attack that unfortunately has resulted in a number of casualties. >> we should note this conversation we're having coming roughly 24 hours after the pentagon spokesman was asked if there had been any death so far in this mission. and the answer this time yesterday was no. now here we are just one day later with at least 13 dead according to the taliban. is it really to expect that these are the kinds of attacks that may continue in the next few days as this mission hopefully. >> the concern about the threat from isis k, and it is clear that u.s. intelligence received these reports, it's clear now that they can put in the capability attacks. i understand why they want to get everything out that we can. hopefully they will be able to main tan the evacuation flights or we start them again, but i think between then and now, it is exceptionally dangerous time that we will have to tallahassee the need and the impeartive of getting our folks out. >> director, you said something they believe was yesterday that caught my attention. i think it may bear repeating to a certain extent. there has been a great deal of concern about what afghanistan looks like once we're out. a great deal of concern about the relationship, if you will, between the united states and the taliban. a potential government that will be operating there in afghanistan. you said something about controlling the levers of money. >> the former afghan government under president ghani controlled a lot of assets in banks. and there has been a freed put on those assets by the united states and others. and so therefore the money is no longer flowing into the afghan industry. the people will need resources. the resources will have to come from outside of the country certainly in the early weeks and months of it's rule. so i think the international community has the levers to apply to the taliban to seek their cooperation and to seek their efforts in trying to prevent these types of attacks from taking place and also for trying to ensure that afghan women and others, the afghans that worked with us, will not be oppressed, and will be rooted in and out the streets and homes of kabul into there is not going to be any type of retribution for the individuals that worked with us. i think it is imperative that they work with partners and allies around the globe to have a policy and engagement with the taliban that really tries to is your honor that we're able able to address some of the needs of the afghan people. doing it in a way that will not empower the taliban. we're going to see and the taliban now is in control of the government. >> director, richard engel had a rare face to face conversation with a leader of the taliban last night. nanny that conversation he was asked about what the future for women and children in that country would look like. and he gave the impression that there would be no dramatic changes. he was also asked about -- actually we have that sound, i want to play that sound and we'll talk about it. >> the united states is evacuating, and it's taking out americans who worked with u.s. forces. but not everyone is going to be able to make it out. will you let those people leave in the future? can you guarantee their safety? >> we don't want our country known go to america, whatever they have done in the past, we have given them amnesty. we need young educated professionals for the nation. if they want to leave it's their choice. >> what do you say to afghan women that are terrified. >> they are our sisters and we must show them respect. they should not be frightened. the taliban are human, from this country. we have fought for the country. they should be proud of us, not scared. >> there is reports of taliban fighters taking young unmarried women as forced brides, there have been reports of people going into homes -- >> this is propaganda from the old regime. we have no evidence of a single case. >> do you buy it? do you believe him? >> well, no. i don't. i think that the taliban are dealing right now with a lot of internal issues. there is not a monolithic view. i think they will be facing a number of internal struggles in terms of how they're going to deal with the challenges of governance in afghanistan. i think there are pragmatism in the group that they recognize. they need some engagement with the outside word and also that the eyes of the wlorld be on afghanistan in terms of how they treat confirm and afghanistan of 2021 is a lot different. there is ways to get investigation out with the proliferation of social media. so i think that the taliban leadership knows that they're going to have to try to exert some discipline in the organization if they're going to have policies that try to balance their emphasis on the law. at the same time, not alienate the outside world and engage these types of humanitarian disasters they think have beset the taliban in years past. >> director brennan, also stand by for me, please, sir. i want to bring in our chief foreign correspondent. richard, i'm certain you're aware of what has happened outside of the airport in kabul, and again at this point, according to the taliban, some 13 dead including children. scores of others hurt, the pentagon confiring that among those hurt are the military personnel from the united states of america. what is your reaction to what we're seeing play throughout in afghanistan? you were just there, if i'm not mistaken, roughly 36 hours ago? >> less than that. i was at the airport this morning in kabul. and i know a little bit more about the attack that took place, so it took place near the abbey gate. it is also very near the baron ho tell. it is really a military base and has been for some time. the military base, the airport, is surrounded by blast walls. the baron hotel is tucked up right against those blast walls. it was flut in order to house visiting personnel, contractors with b it was built very securely. it almost looks like a military base, itself. i and other journalists have stayed there recently. leading from the baron hotel, you go out and take a right and there was a narrow corridor just maybe 20 yards wide. on either side very tall concrete blast barriers. you take that corridor to go to the abbey gate. that is a big metal gate that goes to the compound. you have to go through this corridor and you get to the gate and if you have the right credentials and connections the u.s. personnel will open that gate for you and let you on. we understand from a source at the security source at the baron hotel it was in that corridor that the explosion took place. and it may sound like a minor detail but it is important. there is a drain an and sewage canal that goes under the road, so it would allow a suicide bomber to infiltrate actually going through the sewage and mud and traindrainage in that canal. there is very disturbing videos that i have just seen being posted that are consistent with the taliban's account of more than a dozen killed. they show bodies floating in the very shallow water of this drainage canal between the gate and the baron hotel. they show injured, but it does not appear to show any military personnel. a lot of afghan civilians, apparently, trying to get into the abbey gate gathered in that area. we have gone there we have seen civilians in that area before, and it was a complex attack so there may have been more than one explosion in this narrow corridor. when you blow up a bomb between two blast walls, it contains the explosion so it doesn't go as much on to the base itself, but it amplifies it. it is between the two very solid bits of concrete. there seems to have been a mass casualty event. we're waiting to hear about the status of the afghan civiians and the u.s. casualties. >> richard, the intended effect of complex explosions like this, there in kabul? very simple. the pentagon and others, intelligence alerts that this would have been isis-k. now isis lost. they were yesterday's story. they lost their base, their caliphate in iraq and syria. they were more or less defeated. they were pushed off of their stronghold. the taliban just won. they are in the process of declaring victory. as isis rolled into kabul, excuse me, as the taliban rolled into kabul, they were freeing many of their prisoners and afghan security forces were running away from prisons. the taliban deliberately freed them. those isis prisoners have been in kabul for the last several days, the last nearly two weeks. in hiding. the taliban does not want them there. they're trying to reinsert themselves, to get back on the map. that we are not defeated, that the isis is still here even though they were defeated and they're trying to capture the moment when the world is focused on kabul, and this is something that i spoke to taliban commanders that they're trying to prevent. not just to keep isis from claiming credit, but they don't want it to slow down the withdrawal. they say they will be there, the deliberation of afghanistan, will be complete after the 31st. that is what they're looking for. >> really quickly one more. you mentioned a conversation you had, a rare exclusive conversation, a sit down, in fact we just played a good chunk of it. this idea that there is also a battle inside of the taliban itself, an identity crisis, if you will, to a certain extent that this is an organization that is struggling to figure out what it is going to look like, precisely, after the united states is out. what do you make of that. >> the taliban don't seem to be struggling with their identity. they're claiming to have a new identity. they say this is transformed. they say it is not the world nay knew in the 90s when they were in power in afghanistan. when they were very repressive, particularly to women, banning women from going to school and taking part of any kind of public life, stoning for adultery. they say they will be tolerant, inclusive, but we will see how that plays out after american troops leave. they are appealing to people to trust them. they say they are changed and women will be able to participate and they always put a caveat saying they can participate in the laws. what kpakttly does that mean, where does this end? and he dodged the question a little bit. he said our goal is all about maintaining safety for women. we want to maintain the dignity for women. he would not set any specific rules of they can wear this or that. but so far they have not been reimposing the burqa. we went right by taliban and they were not aggressive to us. they're trying to say what they believe the western world and the outside world, because not just the western world, they want to be friendly with turkey and qatar, and more, but talking to the leaders they do seem to believe what they're saying, the question is will they be able to implement it it as time goes by. they seem to believe this is the way forward, that they need to try this approach. >> our chief foreign correspondent. to richard's reporting. to a certain extent we can expect the numbers to change, a update on the number injured so far. they hurt -- 60 hurt, according to a hospital in kabul. 60 hurt so far. the taliban saying 13 are dead, including children, we want to go right now to matt bradley who is at ramstein air base in germany. i know you have been talking to pilots there flying refugees out of kabul. what are they telling you about that effort? especially at this particular moment? >> yeah, what we're hearing hear is that this is the largest base, really an american air base outside of u.s. borders in the world. we were speaking with military officials, too. for them this will just add to the imperative that they need to start moving as fast as they can. they are already doing that. they have a tent city they built, trying to process people as fast as they possibly can. the population of this base tripled or quadrupled in the past week and now they have to add to that even more. every moment spent with a footprint on the ground in kabul exposes forces to these very kind of attacks. i was also speaking with pilots that have been on these transport crafts, filled with evacuees. i told them about the news, i said there was an explosion, and they're going to kabul tonight. they had already been there and they are about to take off again. i have to tell you, they didn't seem surprised. that's because they have been warned about this for days and days that isis-k had been threatening the airport. i asked them what it is like to land there with all of the threats still going on. and they say they're doing a tactical landing and takeoff. it is like a normal, but much, much, steeper to avoid any ground to air firing that might be aimed at the plane, but as richard was saying, they don't want to delay the evacuations. they want it to move as fast as possible so they can get on with governing, forming a government, and declaring a full and total victory. they in a way are like america's partners right now. they're trying to ramp up capacity trying to move things along as fast as they can and here they are doing the same thing, saying they're process access people twice as fast as they were before. they are communicating more so people can move on faster. once rhyme stein fills up, and today is the day they will get the most intake of any time, once this fills up it will be hard to find more evacwees as they're on their way to thes and they said they will be reaching their capacity as of tonight. today is the busiest day in terms of bringing people here. i was speaking with some evacwees that said that the situation at the airport is terrifying, we have seen the images, the lines, the people wading through the canal outside of the airport trying to get in and showing their documents, waving them to u.s. forces, and it's a terrifying situation for them. they're glad they're here in germany and we got to watch a lot of them get on that final flight to the states headed towards dulles airport and they looked absolutely relieved to be finally out of danger. a lot of people will not be that lucky, craig. >> matt bradly in germany, thank you. mike memoli was standing by. we know that president biden is pokes to have this agreement, we understand that has been pushed back at last check. you told me the president is still in the situation room monitoring the situation, is that still the case? >> that's right that announcement just coming from the white house in the last few minutes here. i have been checking over my shoulder regularly here. we have not seen them arye for that meeting. i'm also looking in the other direction where we see the marines still stationed out front, that indicates that the president is in the west wing, but we have not heard a update along those lines. later today in a virtual discussion with governors about the arrival of afghan refugees. it stands to reason that it will be in a different and the casu americans and others as well on the ground there. this is a significant setback from the white house that obviously in these early days was struggling to gain its footing as kabul fell much more quickly than anyone had anticipate, but in the last few days we've seen a steady tempo of announcements of the accelerated pace of evacuations. we've seen briefing after briefing at the pentagon from the state department from the white house with people trying to flood the zone with anticipation and it appeared the white house was on track to meet that deadline with the -- and the president asked for contingency planning. the question is now, when we hear from the president today does he indicate whether the deadline has been impacted by the events on the ground this morning? the president and other officials have been warning about the threat of isis-k and they've been monitoring that in recent day and does that accelerate the pace of evacuations prior to august 31st because again, remember, speed and safety. the longer we are on the ground, the longer we are on one particular location and the longer we are an inviting target. every step of the way, craig, through this announcement of the decision to stick with this year as the withdrawal of u.s. forces, that came in april from the president, the significant update he gave in july and even after the fall of kabul, the president has remained steadfast that the decision he's made as messy and chaotic as the scene has been, he believes is the right decision and this is a test of whether the president still stands by that decision because, a part of the rationale for leaving afghanistan is the decision to invade afghanistan and to target the taliban and the rationale and explanations that have been coming from the administration is that they've metastasized from afghanistan and the threat is more minimal in afghanistan, but that we would remain and we would have the capacity for what they call over the horizon opportunities to monitor terrorist activities in afghanistan if the attribution does follow through as intelligence officials are suggesting it was isis-k, can the president continue to stand by the decision. this white house has been very carefully trying to navigate that decision and now has a setback in those efforts. >> mike, stand by once again, john brennan, former cia director still with me, as i understand it and director brennan. you have spent a lot of time inside the situation room over the years where the president right now is being briefed and monitoring the situation. what's going on inside that room? >> well, it's a very dynamic situation right now outside the airport in kabul and so i know that president biden is going to be seeking a lot of information. what's the status of what we know about the attack? do we have confirmation on casualties? what do we know about additional threats that we might be seeing that isis-k and others might try to launch? what's the status of our negotiations in talking with the taliban? what are they trying to do to mitigate other threats? how long will the evacuation flights be disrupted as a result of this attack? what are we going to be doing in terms of trying to expedite the departure of american citizens and others, and so i'm sure he's getting realtime information. they probably have a feed from afghanistan in terms of the inside of the situation room i'm sure up on the screen. there are generals and others who are reporting in on a realtime basis, but again, this situation is very fluid, very dynamic and president biden as i've worked at him for many years, i don't think there's any looking back at this point and they're trying to take the appropriate steps, with u.s. personnel and others who are at the airport and on the outside of it. >> director, stand by, please, once again. i want to bring in democratic congressman ruben gallego of arizona. congressman gallego is a marine corps combat veteran, served in iraq. he is also on the armed services committee. i know that you've been watching very closely and listening very closely over the last hour and a half or so as we watched it play out at the airport and the hotel which is for all practical purposes now a base. >> this is a horrible situation. i feel for the afghan civilians and of course, our own military personnel are put in a very difficult position having to try to sort through a massive crowd of that nature. i have worked with people on the ground out and people with proper documentation out and i'm worried we will not be able to hit the deadline. unfortunately, this is the nature of afghanistan. i think things could have been planned better, but let's be clear no matter how, when and why we left there was always going to be this craziness and chaos at the airport and god bless our forces, for what they're doing and that we'll evacuate 100,000 people before this is over and i hope we can continue after that and this is a very difficult operation and all new operations are going to be very difficult and if you're dealing in a dense environment with a lot of civilians with multi-faceted terrorist organizations, with different interests, it's just always going to be a very difficult situation. >> congressman, you just acknowledged that you're not optimistic that we are going to be able to meet this deadline. this august 31st deadline. if that's the case, then what? look, i think it's always difficult no matter where you are to get 100% of the people you want out. that just never happens and it's never happened in the last operations, and it's just not possible. some people don't want to leave and there are some americans that want to stay with their family. there will be thousands that will leave and we have to continue to work with whether it's the taliban or third-party countries to continue to get visas and figure out ways to get people out for the last couple of years or further than that? we aren't going to give up because we leave as a military presence and we'll still have an embassy there and we'll have to figure out ways to get these men and women out that have helped us. >> director brennan, what we are watching play out right now at the airport in kabul at this hotel, again, according to a hospital in kabul, 60 people hurt. according to the taliban, 13 people dead including children. our chief foreign correspondent richard engel indicating that both of those numbers expected to rise based on folks you talk to on the ground there. >> director brennan, are we getting a preview of what life is going to be like in and around kabul for at least the short term, pitched fighting by at least two terror groups. >> i think it may very well be a harbinger of the violence that will still be on the afghan countryside. as the taliban and isis-k battle one another, but again, i think it's the concentration of the u.s. military at kabul airport and the throngs of people on the outside that is -- as well as all of the spotlight of the cameras and the tv footage that was being shown around the world that is giving these terrorist groups, isis-k in particular the opportunity to carry out these attacks and then be able to say to the world, see what we can do and what we are capable of doing. so i think given the plethora of weapons and explosives and other things that are available inside afghanistan, afghanistan will be racked for many years and decades to come with this type of violence. hopefully there can be some semblance of normality in some parts of the country even under taliban rule, but there are a lot of competing tribes and groups, ideologies inside of afghanistan. i'm sure the fighting will continue long after that last u.s. military plane departs the airport. >> should this sudden burst of violence, should this in any way change president biden's calculation regarding his time line. >> i think as he said the other day, he will try to aim to have everybody out by the 319st of august as a way to ensure that we expedite the evacuation so that we don't expose ourselves any longer to these types of security threats. at the same time, he said that he had authorized contingency planning in the event that the 31st of august is not going to be sufficient time to get folks out. it's a very, very tough balancing act that the president has to look at in terms of getting as many folks out as possible. you can't get everybody out who