Transcripts For MSNBC Morning Joe 20100720

times are hard right now. we are moving in the right direction. i know it's getting close to an election. but there are times where you put elections aside, this is one of those times. >> and good morning. it's tuesday, july the 20th. and with us in washington today, a big show, mika, very exciting. of course -- >> trouble is brewing already. >> makes it exciting all the time. >> oh, really? >> margaret carlson is here with us. >> yeah. >> always great having you. >> such excitement to be up at 6:00. >> yeah. isn't it? >> america's waking up with you. along with -- >> the irish group. >> norah o'donnell and also patrick buchanan. >> that's right. >> pat, i left the other day and you and dr. brzezinski just went after it. i should have been here refereeing. >> it was mainly over the coat, joe. >> it was. >> horrific. >> i like the jacket. >> 1930s coat. it was a great 1930s coat. >> that's a very spiffy jacket you have on. >> thank you. >> don't encourage him. >> pinstripes. >> so, pat, let me ask you, why are the republicans, there's so much -- there's so many things to protest. and there's so many spending bills to block. and over the past ten years, the republicans could have blocked, oh, i don't know, a $7 trillion medicare drug benefit plan that's going to bankrupt america. and a thousand other things. why would they decide when unemployment is approaching 10% to choose unemployment benefits time and time again as the place where they're going to make their stand? >> well, i think they realize the unemployment benefit would go through. they want to make the point that we are the ones that will pay for it because in mid-october, joe, i think the deficit comes in from fiscal year 2010. it will come in at around $1.4 trillion. and they want to -- >> understand, the point is it seems like such a bad political choice to make. >> it's good for the democrats, because they're standing up for the average guy that's out of work, out of work a long time. i agree with you 100%. >> so why do they keep doing it? like i said, you know what? do this to the agriculture bill. do this to hhs bill. there are so many -- do it to the legislative appropriations bill. >> sure. a lot of these things, you're right -- >> you see barack obama out in the rose garden, it seems to me like these republicans are giving the president just what he wants. >> i think, look, this is exactly the grounds on which the democrats would like to fight, if they're going to spend, it's on unemployment compensation. it is a strong, emotional issue. that's what the republicans are doing. they're going home hearing about the deficit. they figure this is going to be a done deal and by the fall when we get to october, that deficit is reported, they say well we fought a lot harder than those guys. we're the party of deficit cuts. >> norah, the white house is excited about having this sort of setup. what are the republicans thinking? >> the republicans think that they can block this thing but they're not going to. i mean, now that of course carte goodwin. who is carte goodwin? he's the new senator from west virginia who is going to give them the new vote in the senate so they can get this thing done. but it's politically popular. overwhelming majority of americans believe that congress should extend this $34 billion -- >> so why -- >> -- not a smart idea for republicans. >> they're a little behind with your welfare queens and kings saying, oh, you give people these unemployment benefits, they get used to not working. they like not working. they forget two things. one is there's so many pictures of lines around the block when there's a job opening. >> or a job fair. >> and that people recognize that you need to work. >> right. >> so, the sympathy goes to these people, and this is a -- this is a broken system at the moment. these are not people taking advantage of it. and republicans are just -- their mind-set is all right. it's not even the big bucks that they're saving. we don't even get that. >> mike barnicle, that's the thing. it's certainly a lot of money. it is tens of millions of dollars. and i certainly understand the republican party trying to make a point when it comes to deficit spending. i wish they would have started making it eight years ago. but this seems like such a politically, have your economic arguments later on, what you should do with the unemployment benefits. but just politically, this seems like such a stupid thing for the republican leadership to do. >> well, you know, joe, actually the obama administration, this is a stroke of good fortune for them. they have blocked the republicans into a perfect l-shaped ambush on this. if you look at the spokes people for the republican party, if you look at mitch mcconnell on tv, if you look at eric cantor on tv, john boehner on tv, they are leaving an impression on the country that they do not care about jobless people, because they come up with the same, tired arguments. you know, well, we can't afford it. we have to find a way to pail for it. well, you know, these are the same people who spent money on iraq without -- without any guidance. these are the same people who put in the medicare amendments that are costing us billions today, without any way to pay for it. and yet now with jobless people, they say no, no, no, we might have to vote against jobless people. we can't afford it. this is -- this is really, really hurting the republican party. >> it makes a lot of sense, what you say, mike barnicle. yesterday at the white house, the president blasted the republicans for opposing the extension. take a listen. >> for a long time, there's been a tradition under both democratic and republican presidents to offer relief to the unemployed. that was certainly the case under my predecessor when republican senators voted several times to extend emergency unemployment benefits, and i have to say, after years of championing policies that turned a record surplus into a massive deficit, the same people who didn't have any problems spending hundreds of billions of dollars on tax breaks for the wealthiest americans are now saying we shouldn't offer relief to middle-class americans like jim, or leslie or denise, who really need help. >> so, according to a new public policy poll, looking at voters, whether or not they're happy or unhappy, they're unhappy with both parties in congress. when asked about democrats, 33% say they approve of the job democrats are doing in congress. 57% disapprove. republicans fared even worse. only 20% of voters said they approve of the job republicans were doing in congress. 60% disapprove. >> pat and i are giggling. >> they're going for a name change. >> here's what's interesting, on the generic ballot -- >> how low can you go? how low can you go? >> on the generic ballot it was split evenly with 43% going to both parties if the election were held today. however the same question was asked by gallup. 49% said they would vote for the democratic party, 43% said they would vote for republicans. pat -- >> that's a shift. >> obviously that is a shift. these go back and forth. they've shifted back and forth. but i've got to say, this late in july, with unemployment as bad as it is, with the economy as bad as it is, with this white house bungling politically as badly as it has, it's hard to find democrats, privately, who will now defend this administration and how they've handled things. for the republican party to be that low suggests we are -- somebody said change of names. suggests that we're really reaching a moment of truth for the republican party. this is a party that could be at risk of blowing to pieces. >> you know, this really is a problem for the republican party. such a dramatic change it was, 49-45 republicans. i bet that's more than ten point shift. and i tell you what it is, there's an excessive overconfidence on the part of the republicans. as much as there is an excessive down in the mouth mng democrats. republicans aren't winning the country. democrats have been losing the country. and this looks like the republicans now, joe, have problems of their own. >> i think it raises real questions, too, about whether republicans just can just be the party of no. or if they have to come forward with a set of ideas and plans. i mean, the congressional republicans plan in september to sort of put forward some principles. we heard on "meet the press" that they didn't want to be very specific about their own plans to sort of cut the deficit. but there's a question of maybe the american people want to hear more from an opposition party. they want to hear more ideas. >> they've not pivoted because the no thing has worked pretty well. i wonder, joe, when republicans get together, do they talk about lazy americans who don't want to work? are they just listening to each other and missing this opportunity? on immigration, do they just say to each other, we, you know, we all hate these illegal immigrants. there's no path to amnesty. there's no way for them to become citizens, we just want to dump on them. >> well, actually, on immigration, though, on immigration -- >> just listen to each other. >> you have democrats saying the same thing now that republicans are saying. it's not really a difference on this. >> -- you have to say security the border. but you know, there's not this hateful -- >> no, i don't think there's hate. i don't -- hold on one second. i don't think there's hatefulness when it comes to -- when it comes to illegal immigration. there are a lot of people who think that you shouldn't be granted amnesty. like ronald reagan granted illegal immigrants amnesty. i think that's very offensive to a lot of people, and not just white republicans. on this unemployment benefit issue, i think this is just a party that's tone deaf. i think this is a party that has decided they're going to draw a line in the sand, and this is going to be our line in the sand. they've just -- they are tone deaf and they don't realize that they're not fighting against the welfare queens of 1975. they're fighting against laid-off industrial engineers of 2010. a lot of democrats and a lot of former republicans, pat, who are being driven away from them, because, i get 10% unemployment, 17.5% real unemployment, there are -- there's -- >> there's no doubt where the politics and the emotion. >> it's bad politics. >> joe, you've been in those caucuses. you've got to have almost -- well you've got to have 40 republican senators have got to all say, this is where we're going to take our stand and draw the line and not one of them is going to cross it and support the democrats on this. because that's the only way you can block this. so you had to have a virtual unanimous republican caucus saying, let's say no unless it's paid for. all of those guys, they've seen polls, some of them probably got -- are nervous about races. and that's the decision they made. >> well, then, that suggests that they've seen polls where there are a lot of americans who are saying, enough with unemployment benefits. >> i think they're saying it's enough with the deficit. i think what they want to do, they realize this is going to be somed. we're not going to be talking about unemployment benefits. we're going to be talking in october and november about the deficit which will be a monster and they want to be able to say, it's my guess, look we've been fighting that deficit. we are the party that fought the deficit, these are the spenders. >> i think the american people are fed up that 100 members of the senate can't come together to work for people who are unemployed in this country when we're facing the worst economic downturn since the great depression. and can't figure out somewhere else in the budget to find $34 billion. in a bloated federal budget, find some place else. why not come together? why isn't there a smart republican up in the senate who says i can't find $34 billion somewhere else, let's cut a deal on this. >> why don't the democrats find the $34 billion? >> absolutely. exactly. >> why don't they do that? and by the way, though, i will say, if i were a republican, i'd say before we're going to extend unemployment benefits, we're going to spend that $34 billion that we're going to pay for keeping teachers in classrooms, because we're going to see hundreds of thousands of teachers fired coming up this fall. i mean, there are other priorities to just getting past -- >> did say get the money -- apparently the money unspent in the stimulus bill, they said take that and use it for unemployment. i mean, take care, which seems to me fair that that message has not come through loud and clear. but that's where they wanted to get the money out of the unspent -- >> it's better than saying, oh, let's not do unemployment benefits. if they're saying find the money someplace else. but they don't come out. they wrap themselves in the deficit, of all of things they want to do. >> maybe we the media don't get that message out. if that's the message -- >> i think there is an argument for we just seem to be still stopping the dike. >> i bet you'll get virtually 100% who will vote for these unemployment benefits on final passage. >> interesting. an exclusive first look at the politico playbook is next. also senator evan bayh and congressman joe sestak and peter king. plus a huge new chapter in the book business. new evidence that hardbacks are fading away. but first, bill karins with a check on the force cast. >> good morning, mika and everyone else. the heat wave continues in the mid-atlantic. yesterday was in the 90s from new york city all the way down to d.c. today, will be more of the same. we'll also add some of those showers and thunderstorms just like yesterday. the morning commute is dry from boston down to d.c. but notice back there in areas around pittsburgh, up to youngstown, ohio, showers and thunderstorms are rolling through this morning for you. some of the worst weather in the country is out there in missouri. flash flooding, we've had some strong storms in st. louis. and it looks like another one is coming down from the north. that's where it will be a stormy day overall. so here's your forecast for today. we're going to call for about 90 to 94 from new york city to d.c. a little cooler up there in boston. pittsburgh, watch out for showers and storms. the southeast through texas, the heat wave, no end in sight. i'm just looking out towards this weekend, and next week, it looks like the hot weather is going to continue for you from the southeast all the way through the central plains. that's a look at your weather tuesday. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. 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[ male announcer ] the autobahn for all event. lease the jetta limited edition for $199 a month or get 0% apr. ♪ live look at the sun up over the white house where we're at the nbc news washington bureau this morning. let's take a look at the morning papers. a large man eating a three-layer hamburger. >> i'm looking for lindsay lohan. >> "the times of london" david cameron's first official u.s. visit is being overshadowed by an escalating dispute over britain's role in the release of the lockerbie bomber and its connection to a lucrative deal between bp and libya. >> and "the dallas morning news," senate's likely to vote for jobless benefits today. republicans favor funding, but they want budget cuts elsewhere. so there's your answer to that. >> yeah, "arizona daily star." arizona should see first national guard soldiers on the border next month. a full deployment of more than 500 soldiers expected in october. >> and "the wall street journal," china has passed the united states to become the world's biggest energy consumer. however, the u.s. is also, by far, the largest per capita energy consumer with the average american burning five times as much energy annually as the average chinese citizen. >> and "new york times" monday was the day for the history books. amazon.com says the last three months sales for e-books have outnumbered sales of hard covers. >> and let's go right now to willie geist. he's, of course, always looking at the tabloids -- >> well, no, he likes to read hard cover books. >> willie, do you have -- no, willie and i don't read books. it's a pact we entered as we were gradualing college. any lindsay lohan news today? >> no. >> joe, i can report to you that miss lohan is going to jail today. >> oh. >> she did write a tweet last night, you'll be interested to know. i don't even know what this means. >> what did the tweet say? >> i don't know what this means. the only bookings that i'm familiar are disney films, never thought i'd be booking into jail, eeks. >> eeks. >> so i don't know what that means. >> it was weeping. that was a good use of time, wasn't it? >> i'm not weeping, margaret, america is weeping. >> stupid. >> the world is weeping. >> let us know how it goes. or maybe not. let's go to politico. with us now, editor in chief of politico, john harris. nobody cares. >> john cares. >> no he doesn't. john, let's talk politics. >> yes he does. >> you say the relationship between president obama and jpmorgan ceo jamie diamond has soured recently. why? why does the playbook say that? >> well, the thing that we're following this morning is there's going to be a bill signed tomorrow for ronald reagan, filled with symbolism. president obama's going to sign this financial regulatory reform bill. a lot of wall street executives are saying, hey, are we going to be invited to this thing or not? jamie damon up at jpmorgan chase sources tell us has not received an invitation. it's been, as they said in the book here, it's been noted in the building. lots of wall street executives are wondering is this going to be another opportunity for the white house to castigate wall street? and if not, where are their invitations? >> would jamie dimon go, if invited, to the signing of this bill which he opposed? >> well, he certainly vocally opposed some elements of it. i think he probably would come and i think from the white house point of view, they have some wall street executives there. they could say, hey, look, this bill is to bring stability. it's not to punish wall street so much as it is to bring stability to the system. on the other hand, they're obviously fairly proud of the fact they did get tough on wall street. the white house is trying to measure the optics of this. and wall street people wonder whether they're going to be, if they were invited, they'd complain about being used as props. if they're not invited, as seems to be the case with many of them, they're complaining about being left out. i don't know how many people are really going to spill tears for wall street executives. >> so jamie dimon, though, is considered by many as the smartest guy on wall street. seemed to me he'd be a guy you'd want on your side, john. >> they certainly don't like him, sort of vocally hostile to the administration. clearly, he's gone from being somewhat sympathetic to obama to really being seen as one of the most important critics up on wall street. i should say that the citicorp executive has been invited, and we think that he will be there. >> okay. >> all right. shall we move on -- do we have time to talk tea party politics with john? the naacp's accusations of racism, are they revealing a rift forming in the tea party? what are you finding? >> well, there's a couple of interesting rifts about the tea party. and the big question is how can you take this grassroots, organic movement that's been built on a lot of anger about government spending, and sort of general rage against the establishment, how can you organize its energies? they booted a tea party organizer for saying, seemingly saying racist things about the naacp. said, look, we need that kind of language out of the movement. but there's been a backlash against this by some tea party activists who say, hey, wait a minute, this movement is not about sort of top-down leadership, who's in and who's out. it's not up to you to boot other members. at the same time, really interesting up on the hill, there's now a tea party caucus that michelle botchman has organized and the real question is will gop leaders join the caucus. seems like minority leader boehner and eric cantor, they do not want to join this tea party caucus. mike pence has joined. so there's a question of how closely gop members in the house are going to embrace this new tea party caucus that mikell bachman has formed. >> all right, john harris with politico. thank you very much. >> thanks, john. >> i thank you, john, for as always, wearing the save lindsay bracelet. a lot of americans noticed that. i appreciate it. pat buchanan, let's talk about the tea party. >> sure. >> obviously in any political organization there are people out on the fringes. >> sure. >> what's your take on what's been happening this past week? >> well, i think the point he was making, look, you've got a very amorphous group out there, there's no central control, no central command. and there's always a possibility if you say i'm a party of the tea party caucus, somebody's going to pop up with some outrageous statement and say i'm a tea party guy and then you've got to defend it or apologize for it. >> it has an impact. >> it sure does. >> we see sharron angle a few weeks ago talked about a second amendment solution to members of congress. >> yeah. >> she tried to walk that back. >> right. >> but suddenly, she's behind harry reid now for the first time. harry reid ahead in some polls. >> then when you support the tea party, say you're supporting the guys and the press comes up, what do up think of that statement? >> right. >> and you're connected to it. >> so it's a tough call. you want these folks' support. you want them with you, but you don't necessarily want to be one of them if you don't control the organization. >> and the thing is -- >> -- move for the national rifle association? i mean, that's some second amendment lover. because they're likely to support senator harry reid. >> reid's got a good record on guns. >> yeah. >> and, again -- >> yeah, okay. >> he went hunting, and still sharron angle would be mama packing pistol or pistol packing mama. >> wow. i don't know. stunning admission. >> you don't know. it is such an amorphous group that there are a lot of great elements to it. but there are offshoots that are just going to be damaging to whoever. >> potentially. >> embraces it. >> you don't want to be top down, but they need a leader. >> they need a strong leader that can step out and -- >> pull it together. >> say, no, sharron angle, no, we do not support the killing of people in congress. or these other people that have said the things they've said. >> it's a lot of the headlines and op-eds as well this morning. stunning admission from the usda employee about the role race played in her decision to help a rice farmer. this morning she's out of a job. we'll play you the tape next on "morning joe." when i use expedia, my friends at work think there's more than one "me." ...because on our trips, i always get there faster. see, expedia lets me mix and match airlines. so i can take one airline out... and another home. so with more flight options, i can find the combination that gets me there and back quickest. with a little help from expedia, my friends will think i can be everywhere at once. where you book matters. expedia. blue shirt: great. well, with every laptop, you get a geek so... take your pick. mom: look at all these fabulous geeks! there are so many! look at this one! it helps you video chat with mom! son: bingo! mom: look at this one. you can video chat with me, honey. son: mom, go get the car. mom: he's in such a hurry to learn. vo: buy any laptop and get geek squad support for six months. online. on the phone, or in-store. to give our war fighters every advantage. ♪ [ man ] to deliver technologies that anticipate the future, today. ♪ and help protect america, everywhere. from the battle space to cyberspace. [ female announcer ] around the globe, the people of boeing are working together. to give our best, for america's best. that's why we're here. ♪ welcome back to "morning joe." quick look at the top stories. we'll start, we've been kind of covering this unemployment -- >> the unemployment issue -- >> -- against extending benefits. >> pat had said 15 minutes ago they want the benefits to be paid for. it's not that they're against extending it. they just want it to be paid for. that made a lot of sense. norah, you looked something up here. we're going to get a full screen. >> let me just make, rahm emanuel, the president's chief of staff is saying look, you're either for it or against it. the republicans have been trying to make the argument, we're not against extending unemployment benefits, we're just extending them and adding to the deficit at the same time. just to clarify what the republicans have said, mcconnell said on the floor on june 30th, we cannot support job-killing taxes and adds tens of billions to the already unsustainable national debt. it's the democrats object to extending these programs using their own stimulus offset to pay for them, then they will be saying loudly and clearly that their commitment to deficit spending trumps their desire to help the unemployed. that's the argument. >> let me just say, if you take that argument out to middle america, which the republicans haven't been effective doing, saying we will support extending unemployment benefits, but only if they're paid for, and paid for through all of that stimulus money you still have. trust me, i know an overwhelming majority of americans would support that republican. >> that's just sitting in a room -- >> but it's not being framed that way right now. would you agree with me? >> no, it just looks stingy. it looks mean. it looks like you're kicking people when they're down, because they haven't explained -- all the deficit spending now. what are you going to do your deficit spending on? oh, we're going to draw the line at unemployment benefits. >> hold on a second. what's wrong, margaret, with saying we'll pay for it -- we'll extend unemployment benefits, but all of that stimulus money that you still haven't spent, that $900 billion, take some from that. what's wrong with that? >> i don't think there's anything wrong with it. i do not think that that's what they've been saying in a way that can be heard. >> but they've been saing it. so that's the media's fault. >> what was the date that mitch mcconnell -- >> hold on a second. >> june 30th on the floor of the senate. >> well, but if their meanness comes through, margaret, it's because we're not doing our job getting the message out that on june the 30th mitch mcconnell stood on the floor and said, we support it, but let's get the money from the stimulus. >> well, i've seen jim de menthe and others who have been fighting it without that -- >> caveat? >> yeah. and that's the picture that's in people's minds. >> pat, it is a pr problem. if the picture is in the mind, the republicans have to figure out a way to say we support it, but we're going to support it only if you get the stimulus spending attached to it. >> i've heard the stimulus spending thing. so we knew about it. and it is right and responsible, but i do agree what you're seeing out here and obama is driving the message home that these guys won't send out money for the unemployed who have been there, long-term unemployed, that's outrageous. >> and there's been a bipartisan tradition of extending unemployment benefits. >> the point is republicans are saying we're for it and we want to pay for it. that sounds to me, right -- >> the speeches that have been given say, you're encouraging people not to work. we're creating a nation of people who -- >> who said that? >> tom coburn said it. a guy we like. a guy we like. jim dementhe said it. >> what does the "times" article say? >> just in the coverage, way deep into the article, says with many voters expressing growing alarm at the debt republicans say voting against an unemployment extension that would add to the deficit could energize their voters and help them regain some of the reputation of fiscal responsibility they've lost. they also accuse the white house of misleading the public about the republican position on added jobless pay. so they're feeling misunderstood because of exactly what you put to the table. but it's way deep into the article. and the article kind of makes them look stingy. >> so page one talks about republicans against helping poor people without work. and then you get to the end of it, and -- >> well, and the democrats taking the opportunity to make the republicans look like obstructionists. >> and some have played into it. >> i think that's fair. >> we've got to get to sports. >> what are you looking at, willie? >> do some sports, and some manufactured controversy. >> oh, good. >> if you were on the web yesterday, you read the headline dwyane wade compares miami heat losing to 9/11. no, he didn't do that exactly. there was some, let's say some misquoting. dwyane wade was talking with reporters on sunday, talking about how there's going to be a lot of pressure on his team, and talking about the media and the way it will react if that team loses. here's the full quote of what he said. >> of course there's going to be times where we might lose one, two games in a row. you never know. and it's going to seem like the world has crashed down. you all going to make it seem like the world trade has just went down again. but it's not going to do nothing -- it's not going to be a couple losses and we're going to get back on track. >> talking about how the media is going to overreact. nevertheless he did have to apologize yesterday, or he did. said it appears my reference to the world trade center has been either inaccurately reported or taken completely out of context. i was simply trying to say that losing a few basketball games should not be compared to a real catastrophe. it was certainly not my intention, i sincerely apologize to anyone who found my reference to the world trade center insensitive or offensive. the website quoting dwyane wade issued an attraction. dwyane wade stopped by "the tonight show" with jay leno last night and he was asked, this is very interesting, when he first knew about lebron coming to the heat. a lot of people thought they put together a scheme a long time ago. listen to what wade said. >> did you know you would be playing together? >> no. not in my wildest dreams. >> really? so where were you when you first heard? >> well, i was at primal 12 in miami -- >> are you telling me you found it out the same day? >> found out the same day. >> as i found out? >> as you found out? >> that's just not true. >> do you think -- do you know anyone who could get me a jacket like that? >> it's from the zbigniew brzezinski collection. very strong jacket. baseball, and it was brutal between the rangers and the tigers. third inning a pitch by scott feldman hits inge on the hand. he'll be out four to six weeks. but things got worse from there. in the bottom of the sixth, austin jackson, a line drive right off the head of rangers pitcher dustin nipper. a scary moment. believe it or not nipper got up after a few seconds and walked off the field under his own power. thank god. that could have ended much worse. the game actually went to 14 innings. nelson cruz ended a two-run home run. rangers having a hell of a season. they win the game 8-6. >> very good. >> coming up next, what a usda employee said about race that was caught on video, and why she's out of a job this morning. plus mika's must-read opinion pages. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. for those of us who have lactose intolerance, let's raise a glass to cookies just out of the oven. to the morning bowl of cereal. and to lactaid® milk. easy to digest and with all the calcium and vitamin d of regular milk. 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[ gasps ] [ male announcer ] get a retirement plan that works... at e-trade. i have no idea what bp did. i'm not responsible for bp. all i know is as leader of the opposition i couldn't have been more clear that i thought the decision to release al megrahi was completely and utterly wrong. he was convicted of being the biggest mass murderer in history. i saw no case whatsoever for releasing him from prison. >> wow. >> you know. >> david come ran. >> i loved that. >> throwing brown under the bus and the british government. >> well. >> he's coming. >> come on. >> right now. he is coming to the u.s. of a. it's like the beatles and jfk. they're going to be screaming girls at andrews. >> somebody give me an argument as to what was right about that decision? let alone not dirty, filthy, and completely immoral. >> they used it as a humanitarian thing because the guy was dying, he's not even dying. so they don't even have that. >> still not dead. >> so a lie. >> yes, still not dead. the british are coming. they have to now answer for it. the eyes of the world are upon them. bp is spilling oil, so you can't -- >> apparently, margaret, the british don't really have to answer for it, because you've got a new prime minister. pat, he's going after -- he's going after tony blair, and going after brown. >> he's labor appeasers of mass murderers, going right after them. he threw them under the bus. said we were against it when we were in opposition. we're against it now. >> this is going to be a big headline today, because, of course, the prime minister meets with president barack obama at the white house. they're going to hold a joint press conference today. you can bet it's going to come up in the joint press conference. the prime minister cameron has already said he's going to meet with four senators up on capitol hill, including senator schumer, menendez. there will be a lot of big headlines on this today. >> and brown is gone, so nobody gets hammered. >> you know, mika, there's been, in this country, a lot of talk, "washington post" wrote about it this past weekend, talked about reverse racism. >> right. >> charges of reverse racism from the justice department, with the new black panthers. and you had a great discussion about it yesterday. well, another story of reverse discrimination comes out today. >> this one is really interesting. i'm thinking that this woman regrets this comment. a usda official in georgia has resigned after i youtube clip shows her admitting that race helped determine how much aid would be given to a white farmer. >> you're not supposed to do that, are you? i mean, i'm not -- >> it's probably not a good idea. >> for being so stupid. >> it's not even -- well, how about you just don't do it. anyway, the state's director of rural development apparently made the comments during an naacp banquet in march. take a listen. >> the first time i was faced with having to help a white farmer save his farm, he took a long time talking, but he was trying to show me he was superior to me. what he didn't know while he was taking all that time to show me he was superior to me was i was trying to decide just how much help i was going to give him. i was struggling with the fact that so many black people had lost their farmland, and here i was faced with having to help a white person save their land. so, i didn't give him the full force of what i could do. >> wow. >> how about if shirley and mark williamson, tea party guy, are locked in a room together as their punishment. >> wow. >> that was something, huh? >> so she -- so this guy was trying to save his land, and she decided she didn't like the white farmer acting the way the white farmer acted but she decided not to do. >> agriculture secretary tom vilsack has accepted her resignation. ben jealous, the president of the naacp, called their communities shameful. >> a narrative is going to emerge, margaret, though, certainly on the right, with this tape that's just come out. you'll be hearing this the next couple days. i think its relevance relates back to a new black panthers tape that had been out there. there are a lot of conservatives that think the mainstream media is not following these type of stories to protect barack obama. actually, "the washington post" came out this past weekend, and said we haven't been following this story. is that a fair critique? >> absolutely. it's every bit as hateful. i mean, look at that woman. i mean, aren't you ashamed? >> yes. and you know, the agriculture secretary went on to say that they have zero tolerance for this type of thing. >> yeah. >> i mean, there's more on one side than the other, but that doesn't -- >> that doesn't make either way right. >> which side would that be? >> pat, you're not going to be talking this segment. norah, what do you think? >> do you want me -- >> but, norah, every day, though, we've been hearing conservatives complain, you guys aren't running this story. you're not running this story. it's clear voter intimidation. and it started under bush. but the obama administration decided to brush it aside. is it a fair critique of the press to say, because you'll have a lot of people say, you guys didn't talk enough about the van jones story. >> mm-hmm. >> until it already exploded. you guys didn't talk enough about a.c.o.r.n. until it had already exploded. you guys didn't talk enough about the new black panther story until it exploded. are these fair critiques? and if so, where is our blind spot? >> well, i do think there's some fair critiques out there. certainly with the new black panther story. "the washington post" ombudsman weighed in saying they should have done the story earlier. one of the editors said they didn't have enough resources to cover the story. on this particular case, while this is egregious in my mind, though, it is an isolated, we believe, incident. there's no suggestion that 9 usda is doing this, you know, as a systematic problem. >> right. >> so i just worry that in a climate that there have now been -- there is an effort to pile up a lot of these racially charged stories that concern me about things. that we're, you know, setting up these black versus white stories in this country, that these instances are -- are trying to create some sort of narrative about where we are in this country. and that makes me nervous. do you know what i'm trying to say? >> mike barnicle, it's also these sort of stories obviously make the white house nervous. if you go back to last summer, last july, a year ago, remember the beer summit. >> mm-hmm. >> you can look at barack obama's numbers. the first time his numbers took a bit of a jag down was after that blowup in cambridge over police officer crowley and professor gates. >> joe, all of us here and everyone out in the country knows if you lead any sort of a normal life that race remains the third rail of american culture and american life. always has been that way. probably, unfortunately, always will be that way. i would submit to you that the news media probably is a little guilty for not covering some of these stories. for ignoring them for too long. but i would also suggest that out there in this big, large universe beyond television, that people are more obsessed with other issues, like their jobs and their incomes, than they are with what someone said in march, from working for the department of agriculture. >> i would guess, though, mike on this black panther story which we reported when it came out but didn't cover it daily, i would guess mike, that a lot of people would be asking, why is it that you've got two guys who are clearly engaging in voter intimidation, and if they were whites doing that to black voters passing by, carrying billy clubs, that we would have had a hand wringing 28-part series on the front page of every major newspaper for a month. >> well, i don't know if it would have been on the front page. they would have been arrested immediately if they were white. i don't think there's any doubt about that. the story would have been covered immediately had they been white. i don't think there's any doubt about that. but i think at this point the incessant coverage of it with all of the questions, it's like scratching a sore. that's all it's doing. >> but who's covered it? fox has covered it. but, even "the washington post" said nobody else has covered it. the boston globe covered it? has "the new york times" covered it incessantly? >> they now make minor mention of it in light of fox's coverage of it. bob schieffer this past weekend was asked why he didn't cover it and he gave an honest answer. he said, i didn't even know about it. now he didn't know about it because it wasn't covered by the mainstream media. there's no doubt about that. but now this whipping this thing up into a near frenzy. why didn't we cover it? we would have done it if they were white. it's just pulling a scab at a time when people are worried about their jobs. >> what stories do we decide to ignore, though? i guess i don't understand. >> maybe not ignore it. i mean there's so many stories that slip by and go through the cracks that you don't know. because i've seen this -- i now know all the facts of the story. i think this story is out there and being covered. the minute you know something like this, you go to it. but mike makes this good point. you know, it's a tender subject. we have a black president, which makes it, i think, even more delicate. why that agriculture person had to be fired immediately. >> doesn't that make it relevant, though, when the justice department passes on this new black panther case? >> well, we did prosecute the guy who was holdage the billy club. at an almost all-black precinct. intimidating white voters at an all-black precinct, would you go to another precinct where there might be more -- help you mov. 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[ male announcer ] the autobahn for all event. lease the jetta limited edition for $199 a month or get 0% apr. ♪ or get 0% apr. there's oil out there we've got to capture. my job is to hunt it down. i'm fred lemond, and i'm in charge of bp's efforts to remove oil from these waters. bp has taken full responsibility for the cleanup and that includes keeping you informed. every morning, over 50 spotter planes and helicopters take off and search for the oil. we use satellite images, infrared and thermal photography to map and target the oil. then, the boats go to work. almost 6,000 vessels. these are thousands of local shrimp and fishing boats organized into task forces and strike teams. plus, specialized skimmers from around the world. we've skimmed over 27 million gallons of oil/water mixture and removed millions more with other methods. we've set out more than 8 million feet of boom to protect the shoreline. i grew up on the gulf coast and i love these waters. we can't keep all the oil from coming ashore, but i'm gonna do everything i can to stop it, and we'll be here as long as it takes to clean up the gulf. tell me it's time. >> oh, it's time. >> it is time. >> do you remember -- >> it better be good. >> you remember about a month and a half ago paul mccartney and the gang came to the white house? a 4r09 of people were upset by that with the oil spill, everything else going on, the president partying onstage. last night it was broadway at the white house. show tunes, that was the theme. the president of the united states calling broadway music a truly american art form. the headliner was that man, nathan lane. >> many, many men are filled with these irrational fears, if you listen to "my fair lady" one more time your "y" chromosome is going to fall off. but not our president. he ain't friday of no stinken show tunes. he enjoys them. even enjoys going to the theater. now after lincoln, presidents haven't exactly raced to the theater. >> some nervous laughter there, mike? >> i think so. >> a little assassination joke. one more thing for you, whoopi goldberg. we talked about her a lot last week with the whole mel gibson defense. well, yesterday, yesterday she more than made up for it with a loopy performance. you see she'd been in vienna. had flown back on some sort of a red eye. she doesn't like flying so she was up drugged up. enjoy. >> and welcome to -- i -- welcome to a day of "hot topics" right here on "the view." >> are you feeling all right, whoopi? >> i have to fly drugged. >> oh, the fear, yeah. >> so i'm still slightly drugged. and i'm sure somewhere in me i'm still partying. we're going to go and come back because, i got a little gas. have a good day. take a little time to enjoy the view. however cross-eyed. >> let me just say, mika, you handle your pills much better than whoopi does. >> i was going to say, you know what we call that with mika around here? wednesday. >> trust me, you'll get used to it. you'll be more functional. just more consistency. >> without the sweatshirt. >> without the sweatshirt. >> which she apparently was wearing. >> yes. >> whoo. >> all right, al hunt is going to be joining you guys next in washington, guys. we'll be right back on "morning joe." 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[ female announcer ] discover the best of what's next at aarp.org. summer ain't summer without popsicle pops. ben & jerry: my two best friends. what would i do for a klondike bar? you don't wanna know. i am so happy right now. ♪ just so happy. democrats simply refuse to pass a bill that doesn't add to the debt. i'll offer a one-month extension of the expired unemployment insurance benefits, c.o.b.r.a. subsidy, flood insurance program, small business lending program, and the 2009 poverty guidelines. this extension would be fully paid for using the very same stimulus funds that our friends on the other side have just voted for. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is the top of the hour right here at the nbc news washington bureau. with us on the set, nbc political analyst pat buchanan. msnbc chief washington correspondent norah o'donnell. and washington executive editor for bloomberg, the handoff, the host of -- >> he's the executive editor. >> -- "political capital" al hunt. and in new york, willie geist and mike barnicle. >> that's pretty big, too. >> yeah. but this is interesting. it's our top story in news. and i think it's really been helpful, along with your analysis and just looking up stuff, norah, to clarify the republican position on whether or not to extend unemployment benefits. >> well, why don't we go in to news and see what barack obama's been saying. and this has been, by and large, the main message that's out there. that republicans are against an extension of unemployment benefits. >> and that's not necessarily true. senate democrats are expected to push through, though, the long-delayed bill, extending unemployment benefits for 2.5 million americans today. the legislation has been stalled in the senate for weeks, with democrats short a crucial 60th vote. but that changes today with the swearing in of carte goodwin a west virginia democratic senator, the new one. his addition puts democrats in a position to overcome a republican filibuster and bring the bill to a final vote. now, at the white house yesterday, president obama blasted republicans for opposing the extension. >> for a long time, there's been a tradition, under both democratic and republican presidents, to offer relief to the unemployed. that was certainly the case under my predecessor when republican senators voted several times to extend emergency unemployment benefits, and i have to say, after years of championing policies that turned a record surplus into a massive deficit, the same people who didn't have any problems spending hundreds of billions of dollars on tax breaks for the wealthiest americans are now saying we shouldn't offer relief to middle-class americans like jim or leslie or denise, who really need help. >> house minority leader john boehner shot back at the president yesterday saying republicans are just concerned about adding to the federal deficit. and that president obama quote continues to offer only disingenuous attacks, not answers. well that's not necessarily putting out their position on this, though. >> well, al, so what happened last hour, we played the obama clip. i said it seemed like bad politics. pat brought up the fact that republicans said, and norah had a quote from mcconnell saying no, we support the extension, we just want to pay for it with the stimulus money. then after hearing that side of it, i thought well actually, that's a message i'd be more comfortable taking out on to the road than any other road and independents will love that. yes, we'll extend the benefits but we're going to pay for them from the stimulus package. but that message isn't getting out from republicans, is it? i think obama's winning the day. >> i'm not sure you're right. i'm not sure when it comes to the deficit, which i don't frankly think most voters care a whole lot about the deficit, except it's a symbol. and as a symbol of an out-of-control, inefficient government, i think that probably republicans are winning that argument, even maybe in this narrow sense. but what the white house is trying to do, however, is every day from now to november, they will try to frame something in a much more partisan way than they have in the past, because they want this election to be about a choice. because if it's about democrats, they're dead, and they know that. and finally i would just say, joe, that the danger, even though i think republicans are doing okay on this one, the danger for them is big issue in september and october, extending the tax cuts. particularly for upper income americans. will mitch mcconnell and john boehner want to pay for those? the answer will be no. and i think that contrast will be an interesting one. >> it's interesting what you say. you say a lot of voters don't care about the deficit except for what it symbolizes. i know you've seen poll after poll after poll that says independents in large numbers have moved away from barack obama and democrats because of, quote, the deficit. do you think this is like the perot people who, when perot said that he was against deficits, that was really against a huge, sprawling federal government? >> yeah, i think it's really about 9.5% unemployment and home foreclosures and the fact that people feel things aren't getting better. the economists can tell us that we're out of a recession for the last eight or nine months but i think most americans don't think that they're out of a recession. they're nervous, they're scared. they don't feel confident. i think really all of those are manifest and sometimes the easiest thing to do is say we have a $1.6 trillion deficit and that just shows how bad washington is. >> i think when things aren't working, the deficit does matter, because it's an added stress. you look around, i mean you talk -- we were talking to my parents last night about their trip. my father was talking on the air here, coming back to the states and seeing an airport that hasn't been updated in decades and seeing things not working. and then you think about the deficits, we're never going to be able to pay for this. >> you say where is it going? >> where is it going? >> ronald reagan one time asked about the deficit. he said i don't worry about it because i think it's big enough to take care of itself. i don't think people are sitting out there saying, geez were they right or wrong about government spending? >> there's a lack of trust in government institutions. i mean that is well documented in all the sort of polling. and there's a mistrust with politicians and the people that are running our government. we were giggling earlier. the democrat approval rating in congress is 30%. the republicans is 20%. it's abysmal. but in terms of extending unemployment benefits, the white house is going to turn this into a partisan argument. the president's chief of staff has either said you're for it or against it. the republicans, on the flip side have said look, we can't continue to add to the deficit. al you bring up a great point, i'm going to do the same thing about worrying about extending the bush tax cuts for upper income people. but i just found because we've been talking about what republicans on record. jon kyl republican senator of arizona has said about unemployment benefits, it doesn't create new jobs, however continuing to pay people unemployment compensation is a disincentive for them to seek new work. so, democrats are going to use that, oh, republicans are just saying that it just creates lazy people. >> that's a loser. >> right. right. >> the paying for it may be a winner but that's a loser. >> pat buchanan, al, something al said that most americans don't care about the deficits. we had a poll this past week that showed that jobs are outrank the deficit 79-20. but at what point do we start seeing what's happening in greece and what's happening in our own states, california, where suddenly americans do start to get it? >> i think you're hitting it. i do think there's a tea party concern out there that times are terrible and it's going to get worse for our kids. and what brings it home, joe, is that in california, in illinois, which is even worse, in new york, here are states dealing with this every single day. you talked about hundreds of thousands of teachers. that's where the teachers are being laid off and the civil servants, and some of the firemen and the cops, and all of that. so i think they do feel, look, we're headed down the road. we're all going to go over a cliff. this is why you see 60% or something of the people say they think obama is a socialist. there's real fear, i think, of gigantic government out of control. >> the thing is, though -- the thing is, though, mike barnicle, the problem is, i've just got to say, the problem is, barack obama finds himself caught between a rock and a hard spot because he's being called a big spending socialist. and yet, mike, we're going to see one state after another after another after another fire teachers. we're going to see classrooms that are only supposed to hold 23, 24 kids holding 40, 45 kids. we're about to face a real economic crisis here. a real education crisis here. and barack obama's not going to be able to sign checks to keep those teachers in their jobs. like a good socialist would do. >> starting, joe. i mean, there have already been teacher layoffs heading into the september opening of schools. there have been police layoffs in many states and many cities. because state and city budgets are just tapped out. on the deficit, as an issue, it's interesting. when you approach people and you talk to them about the deficit, they are concerned about the deficit, but it's in the context of they're trying to figure out, can they afford to spend the $53 at appleby's to take their family out to dinner tonight or tomorrow night? they have no -- they can't get their hands around the size, the scope of it, a trillion dollars. that's just out there for them. they don't understand that. what they do understand, and what they relate it to, i think, is what tom coburn said on this program months ago, they think the government, washington, the president, the congress, both houses, are incompetent, inefficient, ineffective, just beyond the scope of their ordinary lives and can't get anything done. >> yeah. and let me ask you, al, we go, obviously go around, and talk to people an awful lot. i know you do, too. when we get out, even talking to loyal democrats who supported barack obama, there's so much -- so many people are just so disillusioned. they're disillusioned with the president, with the democrats that they put in power. they just don't feel like this team is up to it. at least from what i'm hearing from democratic friends. and from a lot of senators on the hill. talk about barack obama. what's happened over the past couple of years and how does he turn it around before the elections this fall? >> i'm not sure he can turn it around before the elections this fall. >> first of all, are you hearing the same thing that i'm hearing from a lot of reporters? >> similar. not quite as much despair among democrats about their inability to govern, really these are bad times, what kind of decisions are they making? clearly the country is in a very pessimistic mood. people think we're going in the wrong direction. the economy's not getting better. the economy dominates. i don't think there's any other issue that's even close. there may be issues in some states like immigration. i think it's a real problem. i think obama is in real trouble and the democrats for this fall. because this is an anger election. >> yeah, mm-hmm. >> all the people who are motivated are the people who feel exactly as you describe, some of them democrats, a lot of them independents and all the republicans. >> yet they seem more disgusted with republicans. only 20% approval rating there. can you beat something with nothing? >> yes, you can. in an off year you can. and in an off year election you surely can. when you can't do that, though, is in a presidential election. and it may well be that the republicans are going to have a banner year this year. and they're sowing the seeds for real trouble ahead. >> i think that's important. to point out. you can beat something with nothing in an offyear election. but when it's a presidential election -- >> it's about choices. >> it's about choices and that's when you have to bring something in. >> when we come back we're going to go live to afghanistan, where andrea mitchell is traveling with secretary of state hillary clinton. also, will david cameron's first visit to the u.s. as british prime minister be overshadowed today by the controversial release of the lockerbie bomber? savannah guthrie standing by live at the white house. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> well, good morning, mika. so far this summer the story has been the heat across the country. going into the summer we thought it would be all about the tropics. but so far, so good. things are still relatively quiet. we are watching one area of interest near the virgin islands and puerto rico. a hurricane center gives us a 30% chance of developing into a tropical depression. by 48 hours from now. by the end of this week we'll watch that somewhere near florida or cuba, and then the gulf this weekend. otherwise, the airports are looking pretty good. all green, no delays. temperatures are very warm once again, and it will be a chance of a stray shower along the big city air ports late today. forecast, 90 to 94 from new york to d.c. a little cooler in boston. thunderstorms early today around pittsburgh. morning drive a little slow there. otherwise, around the country, more of the same, very much like summer. 90 to 95 throughout the south. chance of thunderstorms in the ohio valley. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. the july 2011 date captures both our sense of urgency and the strength of our resolve. the transition process is too important to push off indefinitely, but this date is the start of a new phase, not the end of our involvement. we have no intention of abandoning our long-term mission of achieving the kind of afghanistan that president karzai set forth in his speech. >> welcome back to "morning joe." with us now from kabul where hillary clinton the secretary of state is attending an international conference on the future of afghanistan, nbc's chief foreign affairs correspondent, andrea mitchell. and andrea mitchell, one of the topics you're covering is corruption there. how would you characterize the hope of working with afghanistan as a partner in this? >> it is such a tough problem. it is one of the most serious problems being faced by this conference. this, mika, is the largest conference ever held in afghanistan in war or in peace. more than 70 foreign ministers, under tight security, there have been threats against the conference, rocket blasts last night at the airport, and so there are enormous difficulties in even doing this, and one of the things that clinton has acknowledged, both to us traveling with her from pakistan, where she was for two days before getting here, and also here at the conference, is that american contractors are part of the problem. the reason this is so politically sensitive is that nita lowey on the house side, john kerry in the senate foreign relations committee are questioning bills of dollars in aid coming here that are being siphoned off by corruption within the afghan government, but also supposedly by contractors who were basically demanding protection to get supplies through for the military. this is something that the secretary of state says is a problem americans have to solve. not just the afghans. but today, she pledged support. but there's a very tricky problem. that is what do you do? do you negotiate with the taliban? how do you cut deals? which taliban can be reclaimed? it's always a problem when dealing with these peacemaking efforts, after an insurgency. but it's a little bit more complicated here because of the way the taliban rules. so today she made a point of starting her day with a conference of afghan women to reassure them against their legitimate concerns that they will be cut out of the process. and there are reports today that the white house is considering secret talks through, quote, third parties, with senior taliban leaders. that would be a major shift in policy, mika. >> all right. nbc's andrea mitchell, live in kabul. thank you so much for your reporting there. and joining us now from the white house, nbc news white house correspondent and co-host of msnbc's "the daily rundown" savannah guthrie. savannah, we've been talking about the issue, the controversy over extending unemployment benefits. has this become a flashpoint? is the white house taking an opportunity here to define the republican message, perhaps? >> i don't think there's any question but that they think this is a political winner for them. the president coming out to the rose garden yesterday, for the sole purpose of basically lecturing republicans about extending unemployment benefits. so, the white house feels it's on the side of the angels here. and look, republicans say we, too, support extending unemployment benefits, but they've drawn the line, they decided to draw the line here and say it must be paid for by spending cuts on the other side. and not add to the deficit. but the democrats think the republicans are being hypocritical on this, because in the past, for example, they've extended tax cuts without finding the spending cuts on the other side to balance out the ledger. so, this is an issue we expect to hear more about because, frankly, it will come up again and again and again, as it already has. what's ironic about this latest statement from the president is it came on the eve of a vote that the democrats finally had enough votes to get passed in the senate. with the west virginia new senator being sworn in today, two maine republicans expected to sign on. they do have the 60 votes to get it over the threshold. >> and then one other thing happening today. obviously prime minister cameron's visit. will it be overshadowed by the lockerbie controversy? >> well, you know, i think it will at least in a public sense. i do expect it to come up between the two leaders, of course. david cameron was not in charge when this decision was made about the lockerbie bomber. but it's a point of tension between the two countries. the president is expected to raise the issue. he's also expected, of course, to talk about bp. the giant british company, not because the english government has any control over bp. of course it doesn't. but because this is an issue of great interest to both countries. they'll also talk about afghanistan and british troop commitments there. >> you know, it seems also, norah we were talking about this earlier, with the controversy pertaining to the release of the lockerbie bomber. what can be done now? it's great david cameron feels the way he does. but where was the outrage when this was happening? by the way, on our side, too. i don't remember it being that strong. >> there's a number of senators who, of course, have pledged to hold investigation and, in fact, senator schumer and gillibrand and menendez have secured a meeting with the prime minister today. >> is it fair to ask where were they when this was happening? >> i think there was a measure of outrage and anger. we got all this talk that this fella's dying and it's compassion and he's only got a few months to live when he gets home. there was a smell about the deal, al, you know, i think even back then about dealing with the bp and other guys, the oil guys getting in there and pushing it. >> i don't mean it as a condemning, i honestly, where were they? i don't remember our, on this side of the pond, if i may, the outrage being -- >> well, let me tell you this. they did hit gadhafi up for an enormous amount of money for all the families, you know, all the victims who went down in that plane. and quite frankly, there was some concern, but it was nothing like frankly wasn't as great as it is right now. >> yeah, it happened so quickly, as pat said. they said the guy's dying, and then -- >> it was very quick. >> it's like he's playing touch football or something. that's an exaggeration. >> actually i'm hearing he's living extremely well in libya, and -- >> got a big hero's welcome. >> wow, what a health care system they must have. really. savannah guthrie, we look forward to your coverage later today. thank you very much. >> sure. >> savannah -- oh, we'll see you on "the daily rundown," as well. part of her 18 different jobs here at msnbc. all right still ahead, congressman joe sestak will be with us. and more with pat, al and norah. keep it right here on "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. and i should mention andrea mitchell at 1:00 eastern time right here on msnbc. she's going to be live there afghanistan. so watch that again at 1:00 eastern. 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>> please, do. >> tomorrow fenway park will host an exhibition soccer match between the scottish celtic football club, and the portuguese sporting club. the first time fenway park has hosted a soccer match since pele played there back in 1968. >> now a lot of things are going on right now. >> you're obsessed with soccer. >> i'm not the only one. a lot of people are. last night we talked to the ambassador -- >> a lovely gentleman. >> the uae. >> and of course -- >> they're invested, of course, in mancini, but also in new york and joe, united arab emirates are building, actually, soccer fields in harlem. and with outreach there. i can't believe how big this is and fenway, a baseball cathedral. you guys are going to have soccer. obviously it's a thrill to bring the game to america's most beloved ball park. >> it is america's most beloved ballpark. >> hopefully it will be as beloved wednesday night when we have this first class what we're calling the fenway football challenge. scottish premier league side versus sporting -- >> does mike barnicle know about this? >> i want to ask mike. mike, i remember going to a southern -- we were raised in southern baptist church, and i'm playing guitar one night at the youth service and i left and my grandmother said, i saw you tapping your foot while you were playing in the church. it was shameful. i wondered, is soccer inside baseball's cathedral, is that sacrilegious to you? >> is it okay with you? >> as long as they don't screw up the field too badly. they've got to take care of the field. the groundkeeper's kind of upset. i'm sure he'll take care of it. my question, joe, to joey j., and to you joe scarborough, how do you two guys, given your backgrounds, joey in texas, joe scarborough, florida, what is the deal with soccer? what is this? >> it's a really interesting -- >> okay, it's a good question. a couple of kind of people call us rednecks. >> why you two? >> why the beautiful game? >> well, 4 billion people can't be wrong, joe and mika. and for us, and for me personally, barnicle's question is specifically put to us as guys who went to school in the south. >> yeah, southern state schools. >> if you don't think, barnicle, we didn't sense the snobbery. >> yeah. >> so he's asking, how did two conservative republicans from state schools pick up on the beautiful game? >> look, we don't need to stereotype along political lines. the reality is, is football, or soccer, is a wonderful sport for everyone to play. in fact, it's the fastest growing sport in america among the youth. we just haven't figured out how to translate for the youth passion for soccer into going and looking at playing collegiately or obviously -- >> speaking of the kids, willie geist, you were a skeptic, willie geist. >> yeah. >> of course -- >> you picked argentina because you liked the fact that the coach did lines of coke on the sidelines during the match. >> sure, come on. >> but, when you moved -- did the needle move at all for you during the world cup? >> yeah, no, i found myself watching the games. here's my thing about soccer. i love everything around it. i love the fans. i love the nationalism. i love the spirit. everything but the game itself i love about soccer. >> what is that about? >> no, i'm saying i enjoy the pageantry, but let's get the hands involved and then we've got something. >> i don't know. >> then you'd be playing american football. >> then you'd be playing american football. >> don't you think that american football is misnamed? wouldn't it be better if it was called throw ball. >> throw ball might be a little better. talking about, you've got celtic. you've got celtic coming to play. now this is serious. i don't know if you knew this, buchanan, but you love religious wars, and wars of all kinds. celtic, when celtic plays the rangers over in scotland, they have people being shipped over from northern ireland in barges, and it really is joe jam, it's our good friend, it is a sectarian war. seriously. people die watching these matches. >> well, traditionally, there has been a lot of animosity around it. but that said -- >> do you expect any riots at fenway? >> absolutely not. it's a wonderful -- >> there will be no -- >> it's going to be a wonderful, family outing. >> you've had fans wearing the color orange. >> children are welcome f >> no orange for you. if you'd like to bring a neutral color you can wear red for the world cup champion. >> oh, span. buchanan, have you caught world cup spirit yet? >> i didn't watch the final game. and i thought the whole thing was interesting. but what kind of crowd are you going to get out there at fenway park, do you think? >> we're going to have a great, very diverse crowd, pat. it's going to be family friendly, yet a little-known fact. portuguese is the second largest most spoken language in the commonwealth of massachusetts. there's a million portuguese people. between brazilians, portuguese -- >> that's number two? >> and number one, of course, southy, right? >> and southy holders will be there representing, whether sporting or celtic. but we have a great contingent of scotch irish as you guys all know in massachusetts. and there's a great historical connection between the capital of portugal, lisbon, where obviously sporting club of portugal play. and that is celtic was the first uk side to win the european cup in 1967. it was deemed the lisbon lions. >> joe jam, $64,000 question right now to mike barnicle. mike? >> yeah. >> will you be there? >> oh, absolutely not. absolutely not. i mean -- two hours to watch a 1-0 game, absolutely not. please, stop it. you're killing me. you know i think barnicle should come. and he should do the halftime. he can sing danny boy. >> that would be great. >> that would be great. >> mike -- >> we're going to be -- >> that wasn't very nice. >> we've been planning -- >> you don't understand the beauty of soccer. >> this is big. >> it's very big. it's very exciting for us. come see us please tomorrow night. check us out, you can logon to ticket.com. >> mike isn't very smart, is he? >> there's the full screen. mike barnicle will be there. he's just joshing, of course. and joe jam, it's good -- >> he'll throw out the first ball. >> it's been great having you here. it's going to be exciting. also when american football starts, watch the alabama crimson tide. once again put down your texas longhorns. >> we'll see. >> watch. >> okay. >> that's pretty good. okay. rebound. he would have automatically. yeah? >> you didn't even feel that. >> barnicle? we going to insult joe again or are we good to go? >> i know why you and joe love soccer. i mean, you accuse me of being, you know, class warfare because of your academic background, southern state schools. score isn't that high so you can stay in it in terms of counting. >> see there? what did i tell you. >> the good news, barnicle, we still have a lot of baseball games to be played. just celebrated a very special mile stone, 600 consecutive sellouts for baseball games. >> for fenway. >> an mlb record and there's still lots of tickets available. if you don't want to come for the football, come back and see us for some baseball. >> by the way, when you go to the university of alabama, you only have to know how to count to one. >> that's right. >> and if you go to texas, two. all right. thank you so much. joe sestak is coming up next. it's football at fenway. >> and looking ahead to tomorrow, grammy winner john legend will be on the show. keep it right here on "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. when i grow up, i want to fix up old houses. ♪ [ woman ] when i grow up, i want to take him on his first flight. i want to run a marathon. i'm going to work with kids. i'm going to own my own restaurant. when i grow up, i'm going to start a band. 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[ female announcer ] together we can discover the best of what's next at aarp.org. the best time to crack it... twirl it... dunk it... and discover more new ways than ever to enjoy crab. like our new crab lover's trio with crab-stuffed shrimp, and succulent north pacific king and snow crab legs. or our decadent crab and shrimp pasta. new crab creations for every craving, starting at $14.99, only during crabfest. right now at red lobster. does congressman joe sestak understand israel is america's ally? sestak raised money for an anti-israel organization the fbi called a front group for hamas. sestak signed a letter accusing israel of collective punishment for blockading hamas in gaza. sestak refused to sign a bipartisan letter affirming u.s. support for israel. call joe sestak, ask him to stand with israel. paid for by the emergency committee for israel. >> that's the ad at the center of the war of words between democratic congressman joe sestak and a right wing pro-israel group. congressman sestak is running for the senate in pennsylvania. he's with us here -- that is a tough, tough ad. we've actually had debates about that ad on this show and whether it's out of line or not. first of all, you tell us. is that a fair representation of your position on israel? >> absolutely not. look, my perspective on israel is probably unique in the entire congress. of almost anyone, if anyone used the u.s. military, i did exercises, on rations with israel. i was actually the leader of the very first exercise that ever brought a muslim nation together with israel and oversaw it in a military exercise to bring it about. this is done by a right wing. and it harms israel. one of the greatest strategic leverages that israel has is a bipartisan support for that country. it's a vital interest of ours, and i was out there every day trying to enhance its military. >> he is center of this attack ad says you signed a letter, very i thought good, dramatic lighting on the sestak signature, asking for an end of the gaza blockade. saying israel was out of line, and that the gaza blockade needed to be ended. >> i signed a letter that said we have to ensure that israel has $10 billion every -- every year for its military assistance. i also signed a letter that said that as i went about the world, we have vital interests. israel is one. we have important interests. we also have humane interests. we said in a letter, i said mrs. clinton, could you see, while not impacting israel's security, are we able to get cleaner water to the children there -- >> and do you support the end of the blockade? >> no. i think it's a legal -- yes, i'd like to see it end. but not until we can ensure that there is a two-state solution. i think israel has the right to have a blockade so that arms aren't flown into those really causing harm in gaza, which is hamas. >> al? >> it strikes me as a bit of a cheap shot, but i haven't looked at it carefully. but you know, this is a -- i'll tell you what they're doing. i'll tell you exactly what they're doing up there, whether it's fair or a cheap shot, and the congressman and i were talking about this beforehand. i think that this very close election in pennsylvania is going to be decided in those philadelphia suburbs. and there is a fairly sizable number of jewish voters into those suburbs. and i think that's exactly who they're appealing to. >> and this feeds off of a lot of jewish supporters of barack obama. felt like he has not been as strong enough advocate for israel, right? >> there is certainly, but that's clearly the case in israel. i think even less so here. i always yield on these sort of issues to pat buchanan. >> okay. well, that's not what we do here. norah o'donnell, this is a real issue, though. israel, we've heard the jewish community in america will be very critical of barack obama. he's not supportive enough. are we going to see this not only in pennsylvania but also around the country? >> i've not seen that come up in other senate races. i may have missed it. the question i have for you, congressman is what's happened in your race? there's a lot of democrats who i talk to now who are concerned that you guys may lose that seat. >> well, i'm in a dead heat. and we know that. but at the end of the day, this election in pennsylvania will not be decided by what people see on the national level. they know they've been slammed. they know they've been ripped apart. but they know more than anything else they don't trust washington. i stood up to the democratic establishment when it made a bad decision for that primary. at the end of the day, i believe what john f. kennedy said, sometimes the party asks too much. and i wanted to demonstrate, it ain't about joe sestak's job, it's about their jobs and creating jobs and i'll stand up to my party or anyone to help them. and also, i believe this, as a congressman, i can't just talk to people who agree with me. for example, in that ad it talked about care. governor rendell encouraged me to go, went that night with me and spoke on the jewish faith. because what we have to do, as in pennsylvania, i don't want to work just for democrats. i want to work for republicans, independents, and bring people together to try to resolve issues. just like i led that exercise of turkey and israel together to hopefully move towards peace, and it came out with a more close relationship with those nations. >> mike barnicle up in new york. he has a question for you. >> congressman, the ad that was just shown, i'm wondering if pennsylvania is like a lot of large eastern, midwestern industrial states, foreign affairs is important to a certain frame of reference, no doubt about that. but are most people more concerned, most people that you were talking with more concerned about what you were just talking about, my paycheck, am i going to lose it? how long am i going to be able to -- go this is about jobs. i answered a similar question. great question back at home. i have great faith in the jewish community. they're going to see through this outrageous lie. but what they know most is what other people in pennsylvania know. it is about jobs. look in pennsylvania, we have lost so many jobs, and what has often been at pennsylvanians' doors, the sons and daughter of a coal miner or steel worker, the grandson of a steel worker. they have seen the wolf at their door. they want to know how do we create jobs. >> after your election we asked you how would you do things differently than the president. i don't think somebody else can, but you immediately talked about small business tax credits. >> just like right now. >> has washington been too slow in responding to the economic crisis? >> absolutely. what they haven't done is recognize, in the case of small businesses, that small businesses are less than 20 people lost half of the unemployed in this recession. imagine a tax credit, 15% with the working families of pennsylvania, with every new payroll we'd soak up 2 million unemployed in two years. that's the focus of washington that i want to change. focus on the working family, not some ideology. >> are you suggesting the obama administration really has failed pennsylvania to some degree? >> i'm saying that washington, d.c. as a whole, the hatfields and the mccoys, fighting amongst themselves, have failed to focus on what really drives the economy, working families. where do they work? small businesses. look in the last recession in 2001, 40% of all -- 50% of all jobs were soaked up by small businesses also of less than 20 people. where is the tax credit for them? where is the community bank guarantees to give loans to small businesses? that will drive the wealth up? >> deficit or stimulus? which is more important right now? >> it is create jobs. that's what's most important. let me tell you. that's what we tried to do with the stimulus. right now what it is is making sure that you create jobs by getting people to work. >> okay. thank you so much, congressman. great to see you. congressman joe sestak. it is deadlocked. coming up next, we've got marc cohn coming in. wrote and sang that great song "walking in memphis." he's celebrating a milestone in pop music. 1970. also eugene robinson with "the washington post." you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. 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[ male announcer ] the autobahn for all event. lease the jetta limited edition for $199 a month or get 0% apr. ♪ that makes everything taste better. maybe it's cooking over an open flame. or the juicy beef franks on a delicious bun fixed up just the way you like them. well, whatever it is, you can enjoy more of it with walmart's guaranteed unbeatable prices on all your cookout favorites. ♪ save money. live better. walmart. ♪ ♪. welcome back to "morning joe." marc cohn part of the new album out today. "listening booth: 1970." a tribute that influenced his life and so many others. marc, great to meet you. >> thank you. great to meet you. >> tell us about the idea behind this album, why did you pick 1970? >> it is exactly 40 years ago. i was about 11 when all the tunes originally came out. and i think when you're 11, 12, 13, the music you hear when you're that age i think cuts you the deepest, stays with you the longest. and i think i just wanted to make a case that these tunes 40 years later are part of the great songbook of popular song. they've stood the test of time. >> any on here in particular, john lennon, mccartney, hard to pick a favorite out of the list of 12. in i for you of particularly meaningful? >> two on there that were the most intimidating to try to reprepret. "only living boy in new york" which is a classic record and "into the mystic" off the "moondance" record. one of the best ever made. >> isn't it daunting? >> some say stupid. >> right. >> i was trying to prove the point they're open for interpretation. these are phenomenal songs. >> you know, given the resilience of this music, we were talking about this earlier off air, today's music, some of it's great, given the resilience of these songs and era, can you see, can your ear hear the songs of today being played 30, 40 years ago the way these songs still resonate? >> i can't but, you know, i think kids that are 11, 12 like i was saying now probably do feel that way. but i'm not the one to ask. my ears are attuned to this stuff. to a certain kind of melodic writing, lyric writing, production value. it's a different thing now for, for sure. what's on pop radio an probably -- i'm sure it has its value. i don't know what it is personally. >> joe scarborough? >> so mark, 1970. it is the apex of just hip, hot music. >> yeah. >> and if -- i know you've got to be intimidated. maybe i'm amazed by mccartney, a an extraordinary song. it just takes you to a certain place. so van morrison. you have the guides. i have to say i respect you the most by showing your sensitive side. you went there with david gates and bread. >> oh boy. >> the song i know my brother made out in the backseat of his car with his girlfriend with. >> oh my god that song. >> "i want to make it with you." >> that's right. joe, thank you for thanking me for that. >> sler sli, tell me why. it is not a hip selection but you know what? >> right. >> these sort of -- bread, david gates wrote a lot of songs, the soundtracks of a lot of high school careers. why did you pick the song? >> you are right. it is a bit cheesy. my producer and i knew that. >> thank you. >> but it still is a beautiful melody and what the challenge in this record really was to try to take songs like that and make -- try to make them hip. so we totally changed the arrangement. i sounds like it could have come off an al green record. which is really strange. >> that is strange. >> and we put a wonderful singer named indie arie on there. it's a great version of a sort of cheesy tune. >> great song. >> cheese, cheese, cheese. >> so funny. isn't it as we look back, isn't it, marc, you look back to a year like '70 or '71 or '72 and listening to these songs that five stars with "rolling stone" albums but you can put on a carpenter's album and say they arranged that song pretty damn well, whether it was hip with the in crowd at the time or not. >> absolutely. there's a bonus track. i did "close to you." >> there we go. >> one of the great, great songs of all time. no doubt about it. burt bacharach is next to gershwent for me. >> thank you, marc. "i want to make it with you." i'll try it. at starbucks available. take a try. eugene robinson and deedee meijers. >> just some great songs here. "no matter what" by bad finger. a favorite. >> "tears of a clown." >> "look at me." ♪ [ male announcer ] we all need people who will be there for us in life. people who say, "we're with you, no matter what." at wachovia and wells fargo, we're with you, when a house turns into a home... ...when a passion becomes a career... ♪ ...when a relationship turns into a lifetime... and when all the hard work finally pays off. we're with you when you need someone to stand by you. wachovia, wells fargo, and you. together we'll go far. the first time i was faced with having to having to help a white farmer save his farm, he took a long time talking but he was trying to show me he was superior to me. what he didn't know while he was taking all this time trying to show me he was superior to me is i was trying to decide just how much help i was going to give him. i was struggling with the fact that so many black people had lost their farmland and here i was faced with having to help a white person save their land. so, i didn't give him the full force of what i could do. >> okay. welcome back to "morning joe." we are at the nbc news washington bureau. changed up the conversation a little bit with deedee meijers and eugene robinson. >> what's the back story? >> u.s.d.a. official in georgia after she admitted that race determined how much aid given to a white farmer. shirley sharad apparently made the comments during a naacp banquet in march. the agriculture secretary tom vilsack said today i have accepted the resignation. there is zero tolerance for discrimination at usda and i strongly condemn any act of discrimination against any person. we have been working hard to reverse the checkered civil rights history at the department and take the issue of fairness and equality very seriously. ben jealous is also chimed in calling the comments shameful. >> gene, we seem to be getting to this july where we were last july. it was a year ago. >> interesting. >> that we were talking about officer crowley in austin and also professor gates and talked about that throughout most of july. but race is bubbling up again in the heat of the summer. you have a column about it today. a lot of people talking about the tea parties. are they racist or not? tea partiers calling the naacp racist. it is just sort of ugly all around. >> it is our yearly race seminar. you know? we keep saying we went to have a national conversation about race. my theory is that we don't want to sit around and sing and have a nation at conversation about race but when things happen we talk about race. and you know, in this case, now it's the whole naacp and tea party thing. this latest incident with the official who resigned and many -- >> talk about your column today. >> well, it was about the tea party and, you know, i think the naacp's point was proven by mark williams, the california -- the sacramento former radio host who was the head of something called tea party express. >> right. >> which got booted out of the tea party federation. good for federation. >> in so doing -- >> the -- >> the tea party federation, i didn't know there was a federation. >> right, right. >> kicked him out. did what ben jealous told them to do which is call out -- >> yeah. i mean, it is an interesting -- this will be an interesting process of maturation, i think, for the tea party movement as it sorts out. you know, how can you be a movement without a leadership? and so, this federation group has emerged as a leadership. clearly, there were racial issues there. i mean, if you read what this guy mark williams wrote, it is disgusting. and it is -- >> absolutely. >> way over the line. and he was, you know, a substantial thinker -- >> you condemn that. >> exactly. >> they did it. so deedee, talk about where both parties are right now. we showed numbered earlier. staggering. you look at, first of all look at where the democrats and the republicans stand generic ballot. ppp, policy -- public policy poll says voters are unhappy with both parties. >> democrats. >> 33% approval rating. 57% disapprove rate. that's really bad news. oh wait. republicans have a 20% approval rating. >> pretty bad. >> 60% disapproval rating. yesser innic ballot, ppp has both at 43%. undecided 14%. gallup has this morning, these bounce back and forth but democrats up six percentage points on republicans. break that down for us. what's it mean going into the fall election? >> voters are disgusted with everybody across the board. >> right. >> executive branch, both parties in congress, the woel thing. these are bad, bad numbers. slightly bet tore see the democrats leading in the generic and that number bounced around quite a bit in recent numbmonth. a poll showed how many americans particularly independents want divided government and think that's important with president of one party, you need a congress of the other party to balance out the interests and as the democratic leadership in congress looks a the numbers, that's a scary thing. >> and as they look at the history of your former boss, bill clinton, divided government was great for bill clinton. >> it was. i mean, i don't think the house leadership -- the democratic house leadership in 1994 thought it was so great but it did -- he found a way to work with the republican congress. sometimes in opposition to the republican congress. it was both a partner and foil for him. >> he played off the republican congress. >> yeah. >> constantly. >> yeah. >> and when i said it was great for him, of course, he got impeached but he ended up with a probably about a 60% approval rating and his numbers grew as republicans took control of the house because instead of one party fighting against each other, you had a president to say this is what the democrats stand for and look at gingrich and the crazy republicans like scarborough, that's what they stand for. >> clinton by instiblgt anct an everything else a centrist. when democrats control both houses of congress, he was pulled -- >> they pulled him left. >> left. >> we heard obama is a centrist. he doesn't strike me as a centrist domestically. is he a centrist? >> i think he is less liberal than -- i think he is characterized for sure. clinton spent the formative years in the democratic leadership council trying to find a third way for democrats. >> he is not a dlc guy but most moderate than most people think. >> is this another -- and it just may be another time where you have a democratic speaker pulling another democratic president much further left than he he would be comfortable pulled. it happened with bill clinton in '93 and '94. is it happening with barack obama in '09 and '10? >> before elected president, he was the left of bernie sanders in the voting record. i do agree he doesn't want to -- realizes he can't gompb nor the way he was a gits senator. but what should bother republicans, joe, 20% is just dreadful, especially when they look like they're going to do so well this year. when you take 80% of the country is moderate or conservative, 42% says conservative. 20% liberal. this is a real argument that the republicans almost have to rebrand themselves as the fight ing conservative party rather than the republican name. >> and these rebrand themselves? we need new ones. >> how do they rebrand themselves if they can't win pennsylvania 12? can they pick up 40 seats in the fall? >> that got pennsylvania 12, joe, agreed with pat buchanan on guns, life, spending. we have a republican in there for? this guy was fine on all of those issues. democrats who do that will survive but i do think republicans win an awful lot of seats and then people say, what are you going to do some january and february? where will you slash this budget? >> is there a plan, mike barnic kl? seems to me if you watched the news shows this weekend, "meet the press" and others, doesn't seem like the republicans want to lay out the specific plans like we did in 1994. >> joe, you know better than most because you were there in 1994 and for the past couple of years we have had numerous public people on the air waves here, many of them republicans and you ask the republicans the logical question about the deficit, for instance. give us an example of where you would cut. give specific examples of where you would make cuts. and to my memory, only two people we have had on this program have given us the specific answers. and tom coburn, senator coburn and representative paul ryan from wisconsin. other than that, you get exactly the following. you're asked, what would you cut? they look into the camera and go, oh, that's a -- we have a long record of cutting things and here's what we'd do. hum, hum, hum. that's it. they have no answer. >> what would you cut? what would you cut? >> you overstate the position. >> wait for the president's -- the democratic president's fiscal commission to weigh in. >> where are the ideas on the -- in the republican party? there are conservative ideas out there. tea party ideas out there. what's the republican party's idea set as in 1994? >> deedee is right. the deficit commission will come in, report. barack obama's going to send the budget up there. he will have to have cuts, i believe. they have to move in that direction. and then the republicans will have to respond, joe. you know what reagan did? we sent a budget up there. had all the cuts in there. some 100 cuts and so the democrats said this is great. let's put it up for a vote in the senate right now. we got 12 republican votes. rewrite the budget. what will we do? good luck. >> let's move on to -- we have a new -- a new british prime minister. he's coming to the united states. >> yep. >> and if you think, mika, and i know you don't because you've been here for the past couple of hours, if anyone thinks that david cameron will come over here and circle the wagons for the british government, they haven't heard what he has to say. >> yeah. something this morning kind of really cut through things. before his meeting with president obama at the white house later this morning, british prime minister david cameron weighed in on the importance of cutting budget deficits. in an interview with npr radio this morning, he said, quote, we're not a reserve currency. we are not the united states of america. we can't take our time with this. we see it in the same way which is that every country has to deal with its budget deficit but the time at which we do it can vary. >> now here's a sound cut of what he had to say about bp. >> i've no idea what bp did. i'm not responsible for bp. all i know is leader of opposition, i couldn't have been more clear that the decision to release al megrahi was wrong. he was convicted of being the biggest mass murderer in uk. >> gene, david cameron just threw the entire british government under the bus. >> he did. under the bus right there was the scottish officials who made the decision to release the libyan terrorist who's responsible for the lockerbie bombing. and he opposed it at the time saying that was those scottish officials that did it. it wasn't me. you know? so don't blame me for that. and sure. he has thrown them under the bus. he is his own guy. this is interesting. >> i like. >> what will we see here? >> well, you know, last year when gordon brown and barack obama got together in london, they had a similar world view and they encouraged countries around the globe to, you know, to create some kind of stimulus because the global economy was teetering on the brink and they did and they were of a like mind even if they weren't close friends and now we have a british prime minister of a different philosophy saying we'll cut spending. we'll cut spending and raise taxes when the economy's teetering. there isn't going to be that, like, let's get together and figure this out. >> not the united states. >> let's line this up, pat. you now have the prime minister of great bit tiritain and chanc of germany of accusing the united states of being reckless. keynesian economics is dead. >> you take the spanish and greeks are all cutting. but it's interesting in the united states we got a number of economists i understand that sent a letter like the famous -- letter on smoot-hawley saying -- my guess of krug man, don't cut spending now. you have to get the economy going. and before you start this deficit cutting, otherwise you'll take us right down into a depression. there's a tremendous debate going on in the entire western world. >> right. >> and the brits are on one side. 100%. we are on the other side. >> mike barnicle -- >> i'm sorry. >> keynesian economics is dead as long as the united states keeps buying their exports. >> mike barnicle, it is fascinating to get lectured from great britain, from germany, from france about our big deficits. >> you know what's interesting. there's a piece in "the new york times" business pages today, joe, very important hedge fund guy in europe saying the euro is dead. basically, the european economies are in third place forever. and yeah, you're right. they're lecturing us except in england at least they have the courage to go at the budgets. something we haven't had the courage to do here in the united states. >> no, we haven't. all right. coming up, the blago defense. what we can expect. >> he's innocent. not a whole lot of worry there. >> we want him to -- lynn sweet of yesterday. she has some interesting dynamics to bring to the table on this story. later, senator evan bayh and congressman peter king will be with us. but first, let's go to bill karins with a quick check on the forecast. bill? >> good morning, everyone. the heat continues. everywhere in red at 90 degrees. that's going to continue today. only the northern half with a break from the summer heat. temperatures yesterday in d.c. 92. that's a 36th this day with 96-degree heat. 92 in new york. thunderstorms on and off today around pittsburgh and all through the ohio valley. the worst weather in the nation right now is happening in columbia, missouri. severe thunderstorms rolling through the area arriving in st. louis throughout the next two to three hours so if you're flying in or out or traveling around st. louis, expect significant delays this morning. rest of the country, typical summer weather the rest of the nation. hot through the weekend. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. hi, i'm looking to save money on my car insurance. how do i know if i'm getting a good deal? you should talk to the specialist. the specialist? he compares rates side by side. you could save hundreds. it's easy. great. okay, pickles! do your thing. 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[ bleep ] them. >> golden, man. we're here with -- i love this song, by the way. so great. >> fantastic. >> for "the chicago sun times" and ran into her here in d.c. and brimming with great little details about this story. guy's going to make a lot of money, for the record. are we all agreed on that? >> agreed on what? >> as an entertainer. >> as an entertainer? >> yes. >> in sing-sing or -- >> unsuccessful former governors do very well in america. you know? whether they're criminal or not doesn't matter. >> he is in for a career as a talk show host. >> i'm dead serious. >> he has a little problem. he has to get acquitted. >> yeah. i want the details on what he could serve, of course. later today the former governor expected to take the stand, wow, in his own defense and that could help or hurt him. what do you think? >> there's so much material out there already that could hurt him that what's going to be strange here is that he might have two appearances. usually defendants just go once and might be a bookend. the judge said to get the tapes that rod blagojevich and his defense team think are excull pair he has to witness twice. he's been on every show in the world. you know him. he has to be so disciplined not to dig himself in deeper water. >> did you have an encounter with him recently that was sort of telling to you in some way, shape or form? >> it was. i was in court the week before last. i had not seen him in a listening time and he was the most cheerful defendant i have ever seen. he came up to me right away a. break in the trial. >> did he say rod blagojevich completely innocent of all charges? that's what he said to willie when they first met. >> at the end of the conversation, we talked a lot about running and he lamented that no one will build a park to him because he ran in a park in chicago named after a former governor h governor and he said, he raised taxes and gets a park. at the very end, here's what strange. the lawyer taps him on the shoulder, says we have to confer before the next court moment happens. he is at the defense table. the clerk yells, all rise. i'm sitting in my seat in the pews of the courtroom. all of a sudden rod runs over to me, leaves the defense table. touches my hand and says be sure to come back when i testify. >> oh my gosh. he's a -- he's a -- >> ladies and gentlemen. >> we have our expert on rod blagojevich. senior political blago correspondent for nbc, far more qualified and interested in rod blagojevich as a person than i am, willie geist with a question for you. >> as lynn knows, introduces himself by saying, rod blagojevich, i'm innocent of all the charges. he's innocent but going through the charade anyway. >> what? what? >> lynn, let's -- let's cut to the heart of what he's being accused of here. what kind of case do the feds have against him? >> most sensational charge is the selling of the senate seat and that might be now that we had 24 days of prosecution case that might be the weakest part of it. there's extortion that he tried to campaign contributions for, you know, for state business or in the case and this is a case that plays to rahm emanuel, the white house chief of staff, where he tried to have a trade a grant for a state to getting his brother to have a fund-raiser for him. it never happened. i think in the selling of senate seat, now we know the tapes, he's foul mouthed and swears and didn't like the job. we know he loved expensive suits but i don't know if the prosecution established exactly that something happened except showing that this guy had -- was -- >> willie could be right? >> no. he could be. i think that the -- selling thing, it showed that he was so out of touch with political reality that here he was radio aboutive already at the end of 2008 by obama and thought he could trade -- he could trade to get anything for himself, no matter what the appointment. that just shows that he was delusional in terms of the politics of the case. >> delusional thing, i mean -- >> my defense is i'm nuts? who would believe me? maybe that's what we're going to hear. >> i don't know. if willie is right in this, i'll eat my hat and seemed like he was up to something. >> which one? >> ketchup, salt? >> part of the defense is part of as a little bit risky defense relying on the defense of the advisers and they testified we just -- we all knew it was never going to happen so we just told him what he wanted to hear. >> there was -- go ahead. >> no, i was going to say, you know, one problem with the prosecution case is that this is a kind of a lot like chicago politics in a way. i mean, you know, and realize it goes beyond that. but the idea of horse trading. >> hold on. >> and back and forth. >> people trade in chicago politics, they trade something they can get. okay? you don't say -- this would be like my walking up here and i would like to be the prime minister of britain. you tell him when he comes today i could trade him -- i have a nice house down the block and make a little trade. you would think i'm kidding and trying to be a wise guy or delusional. what he wanted was so pie in the sky when they talked about a cabinet seat. one, the advisers so out of it they didn't tell him that by the time he was having that conversation there was a long established transition process. >> that sounds terrific but did he have an intention of doing something illegal or inappropriate in whether testifies delusional or not? >> yes. i think that the court prosecution case clearly established he tried to get something for the seat. but was it -- did he cross the line? >> okay. >> a close look -- >> enough to convict him. >> i don't know if the prosecution put the case on that proves it. we all know it from listening to what happened but did they prove the legal -- did they meet the threshold of satisfying the jurors? i was in court and watching them. taking notes. listening intently f. you don't know about politics, it sounds sleazy. >> oh my god. come back. yes, willie? >> mike points out it was not a prosecution, it's a persecution and as mr. blagojevich pointed out like ghandi before him, he will be vindvindicated. >> amen. >> he's compared himself to the great -- >> do you say what planet am i on, seriously? >> i'm kind of -- i have gone with the flow so i haven't realized i'm off the planet. >> okay. lynn sweet. >> did he shop at neiman-marcus. >> and saks. >> mike and willie are idiots. we knew that. new housing numbers and goldman sacks earnings coming up. erin burnett and the top three business headlines next. presenting the cadillac "summer's best" sales event. a fantastic opportunity to get a great offer on a new cadillac cts sport sedan... ..the most acclaimed vehicle in its class and a car and driver 10 best third year in a row. summer brings out the best in all of us, so now's the perfect time to get behind the wheel of a brand new cadillac. now during cadillac's summer's best sales event... get zero percent apr financing for 72 months or this attractive lease offer on a cts sport sedan. summer ain't summer without popsicle pops. ben & jerry: my two best friends. what would i do for a klondike bar? you don't wanna know. i am so happy right now. ♪ just so happy. ♪ fifteen percent or more on car insurance? does a former drill sergeant make a terrible therapist? patient: and that's why yellow makes me sad. i think. sarge: that's interesting. you know what makes me sad? you do! maybe we should chug on over to mambie pambie land where maybe we can find some self-confidence for you. ya jackwagon! tissue? crybaby. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. another heart attack could be lurking, waiting to strike. a heart attack that's caused by a clot, one that could be fatal. but plavix helps save lives. plavix, taken with other heart medicines, goes beyond what other heart medicines do alone, to provide greater protection against heart attack or stroke and even death by helping to keep blood platelets from sticking together and forming dangerous clots. ask your doctor if plavix is right for you. protection that helps save lives. certain genetic factors and some medicines, such as prilosec, reduce the effect of plavix leaving you at greater risk for heart attack and stroke. your doctor may use genetic tests to determine treatment. don't stop taking plavix without talking to your doctor as your risk of heart attack or stroke may increase. people with stomach ulcers or conditions that cause bleeding should not use plavix. taking plavix alone or with some other medicines, including aspirin, may increase bleeding risk, so tell your doctor when planning surgery. tell your doctor all medicines you take, including aspirin, especially if you've had a stroke. if fever, unexplained weakness or confusion develops, tell your doctor promptly. these may be signs of ttp, a rare but potentially life-threatening condition, reported sometimes less than 2 weeks after starting plavix. other rare but serious side effects may occur. welcome back to "morning joe." time, kids. this is very exciting. marc cohn with the '70s countdown. time for the top three business head loons and we begin with breaking news on housing. erin burnett's counting down the hits at the new york stock exchange. she's here with a latest. erin, number three. >> all right. ♪ number three for years we have known the economy comes down to housing and the new home starts. pretty grim news. starts for june down 5%. in addition to disappointment for june, may is worse than we start. down 13.9%. weak across the board adding to recent head loons as you know since the end of the new home buyer tax credit. we saw home sales down 30% last month. there's been a lot of weakness. but permits, one perhaps bright spot were up just over 2%. so unclear whether that will really turn into a bright spot. housing is a big issue and as you all know, we might get the extension of unemployment benefits. we expect there's votes for that. that that's going to happen but as you know just to get that done was a huge political feat in washington. so to do additional stimulus in the housing market at this point, nobody thinks is a reasonable thing to push through congress but you got a big problem in housing right now. >> let me ask you. people have been -- people said housing caused the economy to climb and the economy won't return until housing returns. do you agree with that? >> yes. i mean, two biggest assets most americans own, one is the house and two is the car. so if you don't see a recovery in those things, it is hard to see how you see a recovery in the entire economy but it comes back to jobs. >> it does. everything comes back to jobs. so now, punching in, erin's countdown at number two. ♪ number two >> a new blackberry so you know what it is. a big day. all right. ibm came out with results that set the first negative tone for the markets today. but this is the thing. everybody's just seeing everything as negative. ibm boosted the forecast but not as much as everybody hoped for and ibm selling off and the overall market. but the numbers weren't terrible but that's setting a negative outlook today. the other big headline and crossed and goldman sachs is up there. joe, you will love this. ready? >> yeah. >> goldman came out with numbers. if you take out charges, they were not terrible. they were sort of weak where expected and $600 million charge with the tax on bonuses in britain and as you know the big charge from the s.e.c. only thing in the goldman report, joe, up, 44% increase in non-compensation expenses meaning increase in legal fees which means while there's pain everywhere, the lawyers and the lobbyists are raking it in. only good news in there. last thing, i leave you on good news. >> okay. >> and now -- ♪ number one >> here's number one. what is it? >> everyone's seeing everything negatively. whirlpool. thank you, uncle obama. whirlpool had results through the roof. why? because of federal rebates for efficient washing machines, dryers, et cetera. while the consumer is hesitant to spend, the rebates are helping. caused a huge surge for whirlpool. >> okay. it was a reach but we'll be excited for the next five minutes. >> you know. >> you got to take what you can get. >> that's as good as the news is today. >> thank you very much. >> thank you, erin, national superstar. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 what if every atm was free? tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no more $2, $3 fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no more paying to access your own money. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 it'd be like every atm in the world tdd# 1-800-345-2550 was your atm. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 the schwab bank high yield investor checking(tm) account. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 zero atm fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 a great interest rate. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no minimums. d# 1-800-345-2550 d it's ic-insured. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 e schwab bank high yield vestor checking(tm) account. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 the biggest thing in checking since checks. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 open an account at 1-800-4schwab or schwab.com. blue shirt: great. well, with every laptop, you get a geek so... take your pick. mom: look at all these fabulous geeks! there are so many! look at this one! it helps you video chat with mom! son: bingo! mom: look at this one. you can video chat with me, honey. son: mom, go get the car. mom: he's in such a hurry to learn. vo: buy any laptop and get geek squad support for six months. online. on the phone, or in-store. hey, we're joined now by democrat from indiana senator evan bayh. and senator buy is urging the senate appropriations committee to avoid cutting $800 million from president obama's education reforms to finance a teachers' jobs bill. thank you for being with us. let's begin with -- you're on the intelligence committee. what do you make of "the washington post" top-secret in america? >> well, it's an extensive report, joe, as you know. immediate aftermath of 9/11, we built up the intelligence community. >> did we build it up too much? >> is it a surprise? >> no, it is not a surprise. that's what you expect in an emergency. 3,000 people died. we threw everything we had at the problem and probably too much redundancy and overlap. now we can be in the consolidation phase and make things more efficient but i should point out if you told me back then we would go nine years without another horrific attack on the country i would say that's not possible so the people are doing a good job and streamline and make it more efficient. >> look at polls right after 9/11. something like 70% of americans believed there was going to be another attack on this country within the next few years. there hasn't. nine years. the intel community which gets kicked around an awful lot, they're doing something right, aren't they? >> they are doing something right. we have degraded al qaeda's capability to launch large, spectacular attacks and vulnerable to attacks like ft. hood. it is hard to stop that kind of thing. i work with these people. i visited the counterterrorism center. they're working 24/7 on these problems and think they. >> dethey deserve a vote of confidence. >> i don't know whether to be disturbed. it is fascinating. i knew it had grown. i didn't know it had grown to that extent. literally thousands of private companies that are performing various intel functions for various government agencies. >> right. >> "the post" careful not to connect too many dots so that you could -- so that you could, you know, x company works for the cia or whatever. you know? >> right. >> i think that was handled well. but it's that issue of connecting the dots. like the ft. hood shooting, for example. like the underwear bomber. the dots are always out there. always emerges afterwards that somebody had a piece of information here, somebody had a piece of information there. someone had one over there. >> right. >> and i think i understand better now having read "the post" series how that happens and why that happens because literally they're in different places and different computer systems and don't talk to each other. that -- and this information doesn't get core lated because it's virtually impossible to core relate. >> i talked to a guy in the agency with a blow-up over nsa wiretaps. guy said to me, he said, do people really think i'm looking over, like dispatches to see whose girlfriend, when's had -- i don't care who their girlfriend, who they're talking to on the phone! i've got stacks of paper to get through an i'm looking for names. or any clues that the washington monument will be blown up next week but it is. i guess the question is, how many people do we hire to look at all of this information that we're sucking in, deedee? >> i think one of the stunning pieces, facts in that piece is 854,000, people with top-secret security clearances. doesn't deal with the levels below that. 864,000 and 265,000 of those in the private sector so i think the numbers are pretty stunning. but i think senator bayh's right. you have to give credit where credit is due. whatever is built seems to be at least on the level of we prevent another attack effective. >> certainly. there's a limit, is there not? i mean, congress has placed a limit on how many cia officials you can hire. so you have to have a lot of contractors out there. >> well, you do. and it gives you more flexibility, too, in terms of allocating your resources but i think the point you raise here is a good one. the volume of information coming in is just overwhelming. and the real problem, joe, the standard we hold ourselves to is one of perfection. woe don't want anybody to die. the bad guys feel like they succeed with one plot out of 100 to be successful. it is an acie metric situation. >> there's a point of the story which ran yesterday in which one counterterrorism official elated at a great victory that he could get all his e-mail on one computer. >> right. >> okay? coming from all the various sources and this was a huge achievement and it's -- you know, that shouldn't be a huge achievement. and the fact -- >> except for the fact, though, it is seriously -- you get all of this -- think about all of the intel we're getting from across the world right now. all the wire intercepts. that is. i guess that's the great challenge. managing all of this information, all of this intel. how do you put it together? >> education -- >> can i ask you about this? right now, we spoke to a group of teachers a couple of days ago. so many concerns about teachers getting fired. >> yeah. >> arne duncan with a plan to pay, do the offsets to keep the teachers working and looks like a lot of teachers will get fired. >> joe, here's a perfect example of how washington should meet in the sensible center. we don't want the teachers to be laid off and class sizes to go up and the kids' education harmed because of that. on the other hand, we shouldn't cut the reform funding that's actually going to -- one of the first time starts measure outcomes rather than -- >> is that what they're trying to do? >> original proposal of the house to roll back the president's reform issues. for progressive democrats, we have got to make the case to the american people that putting more money into something you get your man's worth in the form of betterout comes. the president started moving us in the direction. now's not the time to turn back. save the teachers and reform effort. >> senator, thank you so much for coming in. good to see you. congressman peter king next on "morning joe." ] when you want ak that travels with you. with you when you're ready for the next move. 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[ male announcer ] right now, get 0% apr on 2010 models, excluding tdi. or get a great price on a certified pre-owned volkswagen. summer ain't summer without popsicle pops. ben & jerry: my two best friends. what would i do for a klondike bar? you don't wanna know. i am so happy right now. ♪ just so happy. ♪ discover customers are getting 5% cashback bonus at the pump... and at many of the places their summer plans take them. it pays to get more. it pays to discover. we have to balance the necessity of the resources needed to fight our adversaries and at the same time balancing that against waste. the 9/11 commission spoke fairly effectively to this. you want redundancy. you want some built into that system. >> all right. press secretary robert gibbs responding to "the washington post" investigative series "top-secret america" and whether our intelligence community is too big to function properly. joining us now to add to the conversation, republican representative from new york and ranking member of the homeland security committee, congressman peter king. in a lotter to attorney general eric holder, congressman king raises concerns of potential lapses of the oversight of the banking economy to allow millions of dollars laundered through a bank of america account. >> thank you for being with us. >> thank you, joe. >> let's start with the question of, now, this "washington post" series, is the intel committee too large and out of control or do you look at what's happened since 9/11 and say they're doing something right? no more attacks since many of your friends and constituents died in the world trade center. >> yeah, joe. i think "the washington post" raises questions and gives a distorted view of the community. it's far better than it was on september 11th. there's a tremendous amount of information sharing. i'm republican. i have no partisan obligation to defend the administration and the national counterterrorism center is doing i think a very good job. it can be better. leon panetta at the cia i believe is doing a good job. we do have real questions of the purpose of the director of national intelligence is. admiral blair removed, forced are resign and a question to be resolved. i have a question to the congress. 108 committees and subcommittees dealing with homeland security. we're the most remiss of all, the congress is. i'm trying to fight that. >> peter, isn't that -- didn't the 9/11 -- we had this huge hearing and 9/11 hearings. >> right. >> wasn't that one of the takeaways from that that congress needed to get its act together? >> absolutely. >> have you? >> i've done all i can. but no. the leadership has not done it. we still have 108 committees and subcommittees which is absolute insanity and slows down the progress of the intelligence committee. there is one other criticism i do have of the administration. i believe that people like john brennan and the white house trying to micromanage the intelligence community. we have to let people like panetta do his job. i think probably what i find most troubling of "the washington post" is gives the impression there's no cooperation. give you an example. last september, zazi coming to blow up the new york subway system. he was not on a radar screen and picked up by an oversea intercept. we were looking for somebody else and got zazi and why it's important to have two, three, four layers of defense. we are not up against the traditional enemy like the soviet union. >> mika? >> first of all, i heard a commentator talking about the issue to set up a commission to look into this. okay. another one? >> why? >> great. i think the point of problem. but even more so, isn't one of the reasons why it is so massive and what we're looking at has so many different layers and maybe even overlaps is that counterterrorism and the issue of terrorism in itself is not like figuring out what war to wage where with what machinery and personnel. it's tentacles everywhere. >> you have so much information. we have said the before. barnicle, is he in d.c.? i mean new york. barnicle -- >> that's what we meant. >> i always love hearing you tell the story without revealing the name of one of the top law enforcement officers of america, talking about how if america knew how much intel he was getting day in and day out, they wouldn't sleep at night. >> yeah. congressman, i'm sure that you know of whom i speak when i tell the story that asked him once about the job that he was doing. he said, he looks at the overnight intel reports, they come in 4:00, 4:30 in the morning and said, you know, if you read what i read at 4:00, 4:30 in the morning many, many mornings you wouldn't want to get out of bed. >> yeah. agree with that completely. we have not been attacked and lucky with skillful other times and stopping plot and the american people don't realize how enormous the threat is. and why you have the thousands of people doing the work. the fact is most of them are needed. we can make it for sophisticated, always more refined and we need the contracts and the various latest defense. we have an enemy. islamic terrorists want to destroy us. >> and deedee, we also have the problem, though, with we can't get one figure head over the whole thing. we tried it with dennis blair. bets nailed. >> that didn't work out but obviously they'll be somebody else to take the job and as congressman king said, we'll refine it and make it more sophisticated. >> peter king, thank you very, very much. >> thank you. up next, what if anything did we learn today? 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