Time . Yeah, i mean, its awkward for me, just because, you know, as a person, i hate to wear that, even though some people identify that. But its good to make work; i mean, thats what it comes down to. Its good to make work, and for me, its just as an artist not as a native person or an american person, but as an artist its important to make things that kind of explore, you know, who we are as americans, who i am as a native american, what tribalism means, and so thats all just, you know, part of it. Hinojosa you, though. The film that everybody has seen Smoke Signals was extraordinary, because it was the first feature film directed by a native american director that made it to national release. Had a huge following; in fact, you said that the film kind of went on and on and on. Yeah. Hinojosa . For a long time. What was the impact of Smoke Signals, now that you stand back and kind of look at it . You know, the funny thing is that myself and Sherman Alexie, the writer of Smoke Signals, you know, were dreaming about making this movie that would somehow catch fire, and next thing you know, it. It caught fire and it hit. And ten years later, its still the movie that im best known for, and i think its because, you know, when you have a coming out type of, you know, party or whatever it might be, thats what people, you know, really see. I mean, ive made five or six movies since then, and done Television Like law and order and friday night lights, but people still remember Smoke Signals. And i think the lasting effect of that movie was that it was another land marker in native cinema if there is such a thing. You know, in the early 1990s, when dances with wolves came out, it taught a whole generation of native actors that they wanted to be performers in the industry. And with Smoke Signals in 1998, what happened was at least what im seeing now is that theres a generation of native american men and women that are saying, we are filmmakers, we are directors, we are writers, we are producers. Hinojosa so you. So really, Smoke Signals has changed the idea of native americans and filmmaking. I think so. Hinojosa since Smoke Signals, yeah. You know, elizabeth weatherford, whos the director of the Film Video Center at the National Museum of the American Indian in new york city pulled me aside i was there for a Film Festival this past march and she said, you know, 20 years ago when i started, 90 of the content that they were programming was made by nonindians. And she said, now, 90 of it that were programming is made by native americans, and a lot of them are in their 20s. Hinojosa wow. And their 30s. Hinojosa that must be so exciting for you. Its wonderful to see, because its not about the loin cloths; its not about the historical portrayals of native people. Hinojosa in fact, you actually had a term for this leathers and feathers . Leathers and feathers. Its not my term; its been coined before. But you know, i mean, you know, you take these wonderful actors and you put them in loin cloths and feathers and have them running and doing all sorts of stuff, and thats wonderful, but thats a staple of American Cinema that is always going to exist. And for me and this generation of young native filmmakers, whats important is to do the things that hollywood cant do. Hinojosa which is to. And that is to portray contemporary native people today. I mean, you know, theres things like. Hinojosa and not this idealized. Idealized form. You basically are like, look, its not all pretty out there. Well, i mean, you know, i remember just a few years ago going to powwows and seeing an 18yearold indian kid drive up in a hummer. And you say, what . The worlds changing, you know . And it was because of, you know, casinos, and. Hinojosa and youve actually. You actually think that the gaming and casinos for the tribes are a good thing. I think theyre absolutely a good thing. You know, the thing to remember about that is that theyre all about location. So i mean, in Southern California you have great gaming thats going on, and then the northeast you know, connecticut and new york, and. Hinojosa but is there a part of you that kind of. I was wondering how you deal with any anger that you have. I mean, lets be clear. You were born cheyenne arapaho. Uhhuh. Hinojosa . You were adopted. Mmhmm. Hinojosa . Actually, by a white family, and raised in oregon, and even, interestingly, that adoption was essentially considered, like, an international adoption, right . Because you were leaving the reservation and going into another state. Yeah, i mean, you deal with anger through your work, you deal with anger through your humor, you deal with anger. You know, sometimes by yourself. But its all about the artist. Its about, you know, the artist. I mean, i couldve been a musician or a sculptor or an actor, and it was just about the vehicle to, you know, get some of that stuff worked through and get some of that stuff out, so. Hinojosa so did you have a lot of anger . Do you have a lot of anger . I mean, when i just look at statistics about the native american reality in our country, i get angry. I mean, alcoholism, drug abuse, poverty, lack of education. And its like, these are the original people from this land. How can this be happening . And if ive got that anger and im not native. Yeah, yeah. Hinojosa . I wonder what you do. You be positive, you know . I mean, you be positive; i mean, thats what you do. And thats really all you can do. You know, everybody has their politics, and at a certain point, you have to shut that off and you have to be, and you have to love, and you have to live, and you cant always be political. And with Indian Country and i know this with native people in particular it is allconsuming sometimes, you know . With peoples economics on reservations, with peoples social conflicts, and with the fact that on pine ridge, you know, sometimes people are seen as the indians or the icons or the romantic tragedy. And that gets to be a little much for anybody. So i mean, ultimately, its about, you know, finding yourself and finding, you know, your love for yourself, and moving forward. Hinojosa so when you were growing up, did you think, hmm, i want to become a film director; this is something i could do . Because you werent seeing a lot of images of native americans, period. Well, i mean, when i was young, my mother who is wonderful always said, youre a cheyenne and arapaho. And you know, it goes over your head, you know . Hinojosa oh, you were like, yeah . Yeah, let me, like, go on the jungle gym, you know . Hinojosa laughing but at some point, you know, when i turned 18, i started to say, now, what does that mean . Hinojosa so it wasnt until you were 18. Well, interestingly enough. Hinojosa and your mom was. Your mom, again, was white american, because she adopted you. Right. Hinojosa so. When i was in high school, the native kids and i always were connected, because they didnt know i was adopted. And i was even beat up by some of the indian kids because they thought i was one of them, which is a real, you know . A real. Hinojosa youre one of us; were going to. Strange, yeah. A real strange. Hinojosa . Beat you up, okay. Strange perception of things. But, you know, i mean, if i wouldve been far enough apart from them, i wouldnt have ever been in those situations. But i was actually, you know, in the title iv Indian Education program in my high school, and met a lot of, you know, other native students that were klamath and modocs, and you know, most of them never knew that i was adopted. And once i left high school, i took my camera, which id, you know, learned to do photography in high school, and i started taking pictures. And what i didnt know a the time was i was searching for that history. And as i took more and more pictures, i was starting to find out, you know, who i was, and i eventually met my mother my birth mother, rose in 1995, and i met my biological grandmother, who lived with. Hinojosa so they were. So your biological mom and your biological grandma were on the res . They were living, at the time, in kelso, washington, which is above portland, but had been in Warm Springs Reservation for years, and. Hinojosa had you. Were you going to reservations while you were a kid . I went to a little bit of reservations, but not a lot. Klamath falls doesnt have a reservation. It was terminated. The klamath tribe was terminated, i think, in 1956, and then they got reinstated as a tribe in the 1980s. But, you know, growing up in that kind of community and place, i remember when the indians received money in the 1970s, and you know, everybody talked about how, you know, they were just spending it wildly, and you know, going on these crazy binges. And indians were perceived as this, you know, this thing. And so, you know, i had this Vantage Point where i would look on both sides of things quite a bit. Hinojosa kind of like insider outsider perspective. Insider outsider, yeah, like america. Hinojosa so you end up going to film school at nyu. Uhhuh. Hinojosa and you spent a chunk of time living in new york, and after Smoke Signals came out, you had another Great Success with another wonderful movie called edge of america, about an African American basketball coach who ends up working on a res. Yeah. Hinojosa . And this whole, kind of relationship; African American native, which was fascinating. Yeah. Hinojosa but now you live in south dakota, and this is your base south dakota is your base. Yeah. Hinojosa you made a decision to be in a place like south dakota, as opposed to and you could have. You could have been in new york, you could have been in hollywood. Yeah. Hinojosa why . Because, basically, i wanted to be around, you know, Northern Plains native american americana. Hinojosa because as a film director, for you its essential to stay in touch with that reality . Its. Yeah, its essential for me to stay in the culture, and learn about the culture all my life, because i was apart from it. Hinojosa and what you see again, because a lot of americans i feel like, you know, they dont go onto the res; they dont have a lot of reason to go onto the res so we have these images of native american. The native american population, that is. Its just kind of flat, you know . You. Your home. All of your movies are about, let me tell you about whats really happening. And these kids, for example, in the movie Smoke Signals victor and. The other. Victor, joseph. Im even like, im pulling it out from 10 years ago. Hinojosa well, because i just watched Smoke Signals. But those characters these young native American Kids who are kind of. One of thems kind of dorky. Yeah. Hinojosa . The other ones very angry. Yeah. Hinojosa but youre basically saying, look, theyre. Theyre American Kids, now. Yeah. Hinojosa right . I mean, theres a lot of them thats just. Well, i mean, theres. Theres that whole thing. I mean, Sherman Alexie wrote a wonderfully funny screenplay in Smoke Signals, and the important thing, you know, to see is that, you know, you go to places like pine ridge, which, you know, i have ties to through my daughter, and you see the poverty and you see the wrecked cars, and you see all the iconic things that are in movies about native people, but the thing that you dont see is the wealth of the spirit, and the love, and the humor, and the community. And those are the things that really make up america, i mean, whether it be native american, or whether it be African American, or whether it be, you know, the suburbs of greenwich, connecticut. Its not about the facades in the front of the house; its about, you know, the love and the laughter and the communities that live within them. And those are the things that, in my movies, i try and, you know, show and i try and portray. And sherman and i hit with Smoke Signals, and hopefully edge of america, is, you know, we dont want the facades we want to see whats inside. Hinojosa so is hollywood receptive to that . I think, more and more, hollywoods receptive to it. You know, edge of america, which came out in 2004, was about an africanamerican teacher who came to the res and started to teach. And when i got the script, i was looking at it and i thought, this is really interesting. It was written by willy holtzman, and i said, ive never seen a movie about African Americans and native americans. And, you know, in the 120 years of movies, youre sitting there going, huh . I mean, does that. That far. Hinojosa but how hard was that movie to make . I mean, when you show up in a hollywood executive office, and youre like, weve got this script about an African American basketball coach whos going to go into a reservation, are their eyes just glazing over, or are they engaged . Are they like, you know what . Theres an audience here. Whats the reaction of these folks who you deal with . I dont know how you do it, but you deal with them. I think the reaction is kind of a glazed look sometimes. Hinojosa it happens, yeah. Which is, huh, now, how do i put that in that box or that hole, and you know, if it hasnt been put in that hole before or that, you know, square hasnt been put into that triangle, its hard for people to make that leap, you know . Hinojosa so how do you do it . I mean, chris, you are so laid back; youre a very calm, clearly centered person. When youre in those meetings with those hollywood executives whose eyes are kind of glazing over. When their eyes glaze over, mine glaze over. Hinojosa yours glaze over. Its a mutual glaze. Hinojosa laughing but then the money doesnt happen and the movie might not get made. No, i tease, but its. Ultimately, you know, its, you know, they get made. Theyll get made somewhere. They happen. I mean, and you know, thats what im about is just slowly making a body of work. We shall remain is a great series that has been on pbs recently, produced by wgbh. Hinojosa and you directed three of those series of we shall remain, which were amazing. There, you went into doing kind of historical documentary work very different than a narrative film. Yeah. Hinojosa and i know that you were concerned about the images again, of our we going to be, you know, again putting the native people into this little box . What kind of challenges did it raise for you . Well, i mean the first thing was when i got a call from Sharon Grimberg and mark samuels. It was like, okay, ive never done a historical native piece, and i said, now, whats going to make this different . You know, for me, you know, whenever you see these scripts about native people in historical terms, you read the script and at the end, the indians die. And i say, well, you know, whats the difference here . Theyre interchangeable; its like the seminoles, the cherokees, the lakotas, the navajos, you know . You know, whoever it might be, at the end, they. You know, thats the hollywood version of indians in movies. And so i said, you know, whats different about this . And whats different about it is that, you know, we went, you know, inside the house. We actually showed wes studi, you know, as a slave owner, which is not a great moment in cherokee history. But its inside where were seeing something we havent ever seen before. And when im shooting the scene with wes studi riding a horse, and he comes down and hes talking to his slaves in cherokee, i say to myself, this has never been seen before, filmically, i dont think. And so its those images you know, the good, the bad, the ugly, the humorous that, you know, as native people, i want to pull back and start to see, you know . And we shall remain really took some strides in showing Something Different about native people. Hinojosa were you surprised when you got that call to have you direct that kind of a film . Im always surprised when i get a call laughter hinojosa really . Yeah, i mean, you know, like i said, ive done friday night lights for nbc and law and order, and. Hinojosa and law and order is actually important, because the actor from Smoke Signals who was young at the time of Smoke Signals, adam beach. Adam beach, yeah. Hinojosa . Had a long run on law and order svu, i guess . Long run, yeah, yeah. Well, i mean, he did, i think, 22 episodes or Something Like that. Hinojosa thats pretty wonderful, i mean, were you happy to see him out there . You know, we all, as native actors and people in the film community, any time somebody makes a mainstream piece of work that isnt dependant on leathers and feathers, i mean, we all applaud it. Its a great stride. Hinojosa what are you thinking about next . Youre working on a big project called the whale hunt, which is also going to be controversial. Yeah. Hinojosa . No matter what, because youre dealing with the hunting of whales; a traditional kind of custom. Right, right. Hinojosa and youre talking about, you know, protecting a species. Yeah. Hinojosa so wheres the status. What is the status of your new movie the whale hunt . Im hoping to make a whale hunt sometime soon. We had it at hbo and were developing it, and got passed over for bury my heart at wounded knee, which is a leather and feather type movie. A whale hunt is based on a true story that took place in 1999. The makah tribe in northwestern Washington State decided, after 80 years, they were going to go hunt a gray whale traditionally in a dug out cedar canoe with a whaling team, and bring it back to the community and hold their ceremonies like they did for hundreds of years, after the gray whale came off the endangered species list and they did. Hinojosa it was. Its actually a true story. I remember hearing about it. Its an amazing story. You know, people came out of the woodwork and said, you cant kill a gray whale, and they said, its off the endangered species list. They have the right under the 1856 treaty they signed with the u. S. To hunt in perpetuity to hunt forever their traditional way. And because it came off the endangered species list, they felt like it was a renaissance of their culture and something that their people needed to do, and they went out and they did it. And you know, greenpeace and. Hinojosa huge protests. All these people showed up. Interesting thing is is that they took one gray whale in 1999, and i went up the coast to barrow, alaska, with the inupiat one year and saw a traditional whale hunt up there, and theyre allowed to take up to 22 a year up there. People dont know about that. Hinojosa yeah. So i probably shouldnt be saying this on tv. Hinojosa laughing theyre going to know now. But its not. Its a matter of proximity. I mean, i guess its okay to take 22 whale up there for a traditional culture, but its not okay to take one near seattle, you know, for a traditional culture. Hinojosa so. Which is strange. Hinojosa so when people say to you, oh, you know not knowing that you are a film director, but they know that youre native and theyre like, you know that movie dances with wolves; that was so great yeah. Hinojosa and you say. I say, yeah i love the movie. Hinojosa you did. I mean, yeah, theres different ways to look at it. Like i said, i mean, as a native person, you know, you cant always be, you know, in a political place. Hinojosa so you loved it. As entertainment, its great, you know . Entertainment is entertainment, you know . And for me, being, you know, the adoptee, its like. Its always just that matter of, you know . For lack of a better word, you know, you walk in two places quite a bit, you know . Hinojosa so if you had control of a hollywood studio, what would be the kinds of movies that you would be making that deal with native issues . I would make contemporary movies. Id make movies about native people today that arent about us in the past, and that show who we are, you know, as healthy, progressive, beautiful people. Hinojosa in fact, one. There was a moment that you told this story about you were at a conference, and somebody said, i like those images that i saw in the old movies; they made me want to be an American Indian. And then you were like, yeah, well, what about crackers and spam . Thats what its kind of. Thats whats happening now. Yeah, you know the romantic, with the feathers and horses and all that stuff, thats wonderful, but, you know, who wants to be an indian eating spam and commodity cheese on the reservation . Hinojosa and yet, everybody. And i guess i do. Hinojosa laughing and yet, everybody on those. On the reservations, are they watching all of the. Theyre watching television, right . Yeah. Hinojosa but they just never see themselves reflected on primetime. I make jokes. I say, you know, why dont we ever get to be in a mcdonalds commercial, or a walmart commercial . And you know, i joke around about that stuff, but you know, i mean, wed have to be in, like, you know, thomas buildsthefire attire with, you know, the braids for them to say demographically, okay, theres an indian that we wanted in this mcdonalds spot so we could market to the indians. And in reality, its like, you know, a lot of times i have native friends who dont have their hair long, and everybody says that theyre, you know, from somewhere else somewhere else in the world and theyre, you know, immigrants here, or, you know . And you know, thats not a bad thing, but the fact of the matter is that our understanding of who we are as americans is so narrow. Hinojosa do you think its changing, though . Do you. Its changing; its definitely changing. Hinojosa so finally, for young people; young, native well, maybe theyre directors, maybe theyre actors what do you say to them . Where. What do you say to them when theyre like, god, the doors are closing on me all the time. I cant get the meetings. They dont get my scripts. Im entirely frustrated, and you say. I say, just do it, and do it, and do it, and do it. And thats basically what ive tried to do, which is, you know, youre not going to change the world through one movie, youre not going to change the world through one story, but i believe stories do change the world, humor changes the world, love changes the world, and its about making a body of work and exploring different stories. Hinojosa but if theyre saying, dude, im making a movie, but its like not ending up anywhere. No ones seeing it, and im running out of money. Yeah. Its harder for females to become directors than it is for, you know, a minority, and i remind, you know, native people all the time, its like, it can be difficult. You just got to get up and do it. Hinojosa and thanks for doing it. Chris eyre, we really appreciate your stories and for coming to see us. Thanks for having me. Hinojosa good luck on the next film. Awesome. Hinojosa thank you. Continue the conversation at wgbh. Org oneonone. Captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org [announcer] funding for overheard with evan smith is provided in part by the Alice KlebergReynolds Foundation and hillco partners, a texas Government Affairs consultancy, and by klrus producer circle, ensuring local programming that reflects the character and interests of the greater austin, texas community. Im evan smith. Hes a former cia officer, investment banker, and congressional staffer, running as an independent candidate for president of the United States in 2016. Hes evan mcmullin. This is overheard. audience applauds [evan smith voiceover] lets be honest. Is this about the ability to learn, or is this about the experience of not having been taught properly . How have you avoided what has befallen other nations in africa and elsewhere . You could say that he made his own bed, but you caused him to sleep in it. You know, you saw a problem, and over time took it on. Lets start with the sizzle before we get to the steak. Are you gonna run for president