Transcripts For CSPAN3 VA Officials Testify On Sexual Harassment Issues 20220912

Hearings on the other events throughout the day. Weekdays at 5 pm and 9 pm eastern, catch washington today. A fast paced report on the stories of the day. Listen to cspan anytime. Just tell your Smart Speaker to play cspan radio. Cspan, powered by cable. According to a report from the Government Accountability office, about 17 with veteran Affairs Department says they have experienced Sexual Harassment on the workplace. Va officials appeared before a subcommittee to address what is being done about the issue. This hearing is about now run af. Todays hearing is titled progress made, an exact role harassment at the department of Veterans Affairs. We will hear from two diversity and inclusion. Miss pretty the johnson Amber Crombie, director of a number of operations for o. M. The eyes operation and thomas costa, other Government Accountability office who is joining us virtually. Sexual harassment is a major problem within the department that affects the wellbeing of va employees. According to a 2021 survey from the merit system protection board, an estimated 17 of the vas for hundred thousand employees experience some form of Sexual Harassment in the proceeding two years. This well exceeds a government wide average of 11 and it may be the highest rate of Sexual Harassment across the federal workforce. I am sure everyone agrees that these figures show unacceptable situation. The severity and pervasiveness of Sexual Harassment within va is not new. I wish i could say the department has done all it can throughout history, but despite very highlevels of sir actual harassment reported an anonymous surveys, again, 17 of 400,000 employees. The va says there are fewer than 500,000 formal the meaning is clear. One of the least common responses by an employee who experiences harassment is to report that through official channels. Victims often fear that nobody will believe them then action will be taken where they will be blamed for socially ostracized. That means that too many employees are not getting the help they need. Serious injustices are not being corrected. I would like to acknowledge at the outset of the hearing that, over the last two years, the va has made some progress. One of secretary douglass first asked asked secretary was a policy making clear that he would not accept harassment assault, ayanna neale about the va. This is an important statement. In march there was a detailed list of the procedures the all required to report incidents of Sexual Harassment to the committee of inclusion. Theres also new mandatory training. As we will explain the va has not taken either necessary steps. And hearing over two years ago on this topic, the va testified that many employees do not report Sexual Harassment out of fear of retaliation or retirement. Over half of employees were not confident that their complaint would be resolved in a fair in just a manner. The video made several suggestions some, of which addressing policies going back years. I have to express my frustrations, two years later, the va has only implemented two of the seven recommendations fully. Lets talk about two priority recommendations, in particular. Longstanding eco directive requires that, same, quote, the same official advising on personal actions may not be responsible for overseeing the e e o pre complaint or complaint process. This is for good reason. The same person shouldnt be in charge of pursuing a Sexual Harassment complaint and defending managers. This is a conflict of interest. The eoc put it this way in july 2022 letter. One of several notices dating back to 2017. It says that we are concerned that a perceived conflict of interest could have a Chilling Effect on the use of and confidence in the eco complaint process. Vas, Department Wide, equal of Opportunity Employer and the resources for administration ultimately in charge of handling complaints, both oversees the eco function and for the department. The va has refused to collect this situation that undercuts the confidence in how these situations are addressed. Equally troubling is that people tasked with receiving responding to Sexual Harassment complaints and individual Va Medical Centers, not to the train professionals at resolution management but to the officials. This is more than a box of a chart, this erodes employee faith that Sexual Harassment complaint will be handled in an impartial manner. Two years ago, veteran va officials told us theyre working to realign models. Even now, even that is a sluggish timeline that appears to be slipping. Thats why i know the we have donald roomy at the hearing, he declined because of conflicts. The two witnesses here have done amazing jobs updating policies and procedures. With all respect to mr. Johnson mr. Johnson Amber Crombie, we need the falls on with up to the secretary and the leadership of pa. I am concerned about his lack of his absence today and the clear lack of decisionmaking leadership that we need. I think that can send the wrong message, in the lack of action, to thousands of employees who have experienced Sexual Harassment. I hope todays witnesses have been empowered to share real actionable steps that are being taken now, not two or three years from now, to fix the departments structural deficiencies. The struggles with Sexual Harassment or not begin with this administration but currently doorstep has the opportunity to take action now that would better Position Department to address harassment moving forward. Thank you to all of our witnesses for your willingness to participate. We look forward to your testimony. That concludes my statements, then i will turn things over to Ranking Member manned for your comments. Thank you mister chairman thank you for having this hearing. Nearly two years ago, to the day, this subcommittee held a hearing with almost the exact same title. Some improvements have been made. We know that harassment still exists. One thing that was true then and is still true now is that mandatory training while important, will not end Sexual Harassment. We need employees and to treat each other with respect. Despite the that the harassment does happen, the va must have hold those accountable for their actions. Two years ago the government published a report on the Sexual Harassment for va employees. The eo made seven recommendations, as mentioned by the chair. The va has closed on only two of them. Im very disappointed by the lack of progress. The department did not concur with two of the recommendations for the alignment of the eo director in the eco Program Managers at va medical center. The j o is concerned that this creates a conflict of interest, the video disagrees. Thats been going on for two years with little known to no progress. This debate was always unnecessary and im glad that the house is taking action. I am pleased that earlier in congress we stepped in the past legislation early house that would qualify the recommendations over the objections of the department. Unfortunately, the legislations top in the tenth senate. I hope that the house and Senate Majorities can lodge in with passing legislation, so that we do not continue spin our wheels and have the same debate regarding the alignment of the eo directors. I want to close by saying i appreciate the efforts of va employees to and Sexual Harassment. Battling for this where the cause can be overwhelming and i can feel like everybody is a critic but i think we can all agree that more can and should be done. While the issue of staff alignment is important, congress has already ruled on that issue. Now we must turn to the heart of the matter, which is the leadership in the culture failures at the va. Vas leadership disengaged and culture dangerous. His work scored at the core of the issues for the. Id focus on my questions now first, with that i yield back. I will now yield to chairman to congress to cano, who is here for this hearing. You are recognized for opening comments. Thank you, i would like to associate myself with the states that you gave to begin this hearing. The lack of progress fully addressing a Sexual Harassment at the vas disturbing. I see a lack of prioritization by a leadership which is hardening. I remember in 2020 something hearing that to address these issues, i told the assembled witnesses at the time that i was growing impatient. The vas slow pace or form on Sexual Harassment. Frankly, my comments were mild compared to what several republican members, including my counterpart had to say. Sexual harassment among the workforce is a bipartisan concern and has been a concern of this committee for many years. No one should be subjected to unwelcome sexual advances or made to endure teasing, joking, or derogatory comments based on their sex, sexual orientation, or gender identity. Unfortunately, these are issues that are all too many v a employees have had to deal with. In the past and continue to deal with today. Let me highlight, if i may, several passages from the Government Office accountability report. Quote, alleged incidents of Sexual Harassment are under reported according to the current system. We found some areas of fear of reprisal, fear of reprisal or concerns about the eo processing. Yeah communications intended for all employees and always reach them, and quote. The geo identified concerns about whether the investigation and resolution of eco complaints were dependent on the management of the Va Medical Centers. Now, i am sorry to say that this is not a recent report im writing from this, is a report that was issued in 1993 nearly 30 years ago. Yet the department is still grappling with some of the very same Sexual Harassment issues. Two years ago we were told that a realignment of the equal opportunity, equal Employment Opportunity managers which was underway at the federal Veterans Benefits and mission since 2016, would not even begin to occur at the Veterans Health administration until 2024. We know that the va was the biggest section of what we do at the va. Now even with that ambitious goal or even that unambitious goal, it appears to the unambitious go up and further delayed. I agree that the two va witnesses with us this morning should be commended for the steps they have taken to improve tracking of Sexual Harassment complaints, update employee training, the the handbooks. The policy procedures are only as good as the people of implementing them. What weve heard from any va employees its out there still a lack of trust in the anti harassment reporting structure. I know there has been renewed focus on harassment discrimination and whistleblower protection under this administration, but i want to allocate chairman powell in saying that there is more that needs to be done. I share his concern, to, that the dqd deputy secretary is not here to speak to these issues. He or someone at or near his level should be able to convey to this committee and a clear voice that the rack and citing recommendations on Sexual Harassment have the full department of the attention of the department and should be of lamented without further delay. It was communicated to us that department does not want to set up president for subcommittee hearings. I find this odd since the committee has a long history of having leadership appeared before some committees. Every committee ramming himself appeared before our meeting in november. July 2020 hearing on Sexual Harassment issues at va. Now this is a topic that the the the deputy secretary is the most important va officials to make the changes that the g. A. O. And equal Employment Opportunity commission have been pushing for years. A critical opportunity to the the time for top on these foundational issues is way past due. We, as members of this committee need to see some action. Thank you again, mister chairman, thank you mr. Johnson, thank you miss johnson Amber Crombie, mr. Costa. I look forward to a productive discussion with each they. Thank you chairman to cano. We also joined by the chairwoman of newly authorized me. I recognize you for any opening comments we may have. The very much chairman talk Ranking Member man and including us and so many ways. Including the task force. First as jeremy pompous mentioned i want to bring up the progress made on road va over the recent years as you know required to establish a comprehensive antiassault policy. I look forward to hearing about the enactment of this policy. However, i am disappointed to have to be sitting here, again as i was in 2020 because va is still not compliant with federal laws regulations meaning if the of the geo are unresolved. This continues to harm the ability for the va to bring justice and support to those who have experience Sexual Harassment. I expressed my concerns that the timelines to implement the recommendations are taking too long. Two years later we are sitting here once again. Today, i hope we will not be hearing the same promises and excuses. As we now, at the va deputy secretary declined to be here today. As a leader within the department i would expect the deputy secretary to lead from the front and take responsibility for me to voices community for immediately resolving for va employees. As far as i see, there is no sense of urgency. That is a problem. The 2020 gia reports some va employees may continue to distrust vas handling of Sexual Harassment allegations. There are additional reports that date back decades on this very subject which exposed many of the same problems and distressed. For one, the equal Employment Opportunity condition found that both the Department Wide ego director and the iwo Program Managers were misaligned, creating the perception that there is a conflict of interest among the va workforce. Furthermore, va policies are not consistent through the agency and are missing crucial information such as including all options employees have for reporting Sexual Harassment. Not to mention the Data Collected from Sexual Harassment complaints and reports are incomplete. Va must not discouraged or stifled against reporting or placing harassment. I think we all encouraged at sex Sexual Harassment is under reported. Me the Department Leader is much more work with the Department Leaders coordinators to implement procedures to provide a safe, healthy, and supportive Work Environment for all of our employees. For decades, va employees have not trusted leaders to pop properly handle severe, pervasive issue. This seems to be problems with the survivors will continue to move the suffering without insurance or reassurance that the people will be held accountable for their actions. The Maritime Protection ward in with 2016 in 2021 found that va employees experience more Sexual Harassment than any other federal agency. This is wholly unacceptable. It is time to fix it. Advertising a policy map for me is nothing it is not fully implemented. Employees rightfully expect in deserve better i look forward to talking with others about the improvements made a va and what has been done to address the ones that were still needed. Thank you chairwoman brownley. We have a single panel of witnesses for todays hearing from the apartment of veteran affairs. We have harvey johnson, thank you disesteem for resolution management, diversity and inclusion. Matt measurement and diversity and inclusion. Both mr. Johnson and miss amber khan believe the departments efforts to address allegations of harassment and discrimination amongst the va workforce. We also joined virtually by dr. Thomas costa, a director of the Government Accountability offices work force and Income Security Team where he oversees workplace protection, training issues, and safety for the g. A. O. In addition to these witnesses i ask for from the equal opportunity Employment Opportunity commission which identifies inefficiencies within the m equals Opportunity Employment Program and clearly states that their hiring not comply with federal law. Its a reminder to mr. Costa, who is virtual, please pause for a couple seconds before speaking so we fully capture your comments. With that i want to recognize mr. Johnson for five minutes. Good morning chairman papa, Ranking Member man and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for inviting us here today to discuss the vas efforts to prevent and effectively respond to Sexual Harassment and Sexual Assault. Joining me today is must petito director of these from region of the office of revolution resolution management, diversity, and inclusion. We appreciate this opportunity midday secretary Dennis Madonna has to do a more coming environment. For veteran may serve and for our worldclass workforce. Va thank you for your partnership and your continued commitments to our nations veterans. We thank you for the denver sampson act. This critically important legislation serves as the catalyst for the va to prevent and respond sexual arrested in assault. We are pleased to discuss with you today are tremendous progress, such passage of the act, and had the va is now going above and beyond to implement this law on behalf of all of our employees and those we serve. The secretary issued a zero tolerance policy for harassment. Meaning we actively work to mayors organization full of free of we believe that just reacting to Sexual Assault is not enough and we much achieve and sustain the cultural wealth of va to prevent Sexual Harassment and assault. Today you will hear us describe rafts to just that. We have clearly defined process for reporting gender based harassment and Sexual Assault for all employees, contractors veterans, and visitors. We now have a harassment protection directive and a corresponding handbook. The handbook provides guidance, instructions, in mandatory procedures for va organizations in and Key Stakeholders that every level of the organization. The va now has the sultan safety survey, distributed to veterans. It speaks directly about safety and when attending appointments. Weve also established a Remediation Program for facilities with five or more substantiated complaints about Sexual Harassment or assault. The va has reflect refresh an updated all harassment prevention training that now includes Bystander Intervention training for both veterans and employees. This past september, secretary mcdonald established a secretaries workroom on Sexual Assault and harassment prevention. The work Group Includes sovereign the directors of veteran affairs. The employees, serving in a personal capacity and survivors of sex rebel assault and harassment. Finally, a white ribbon Pledge Program represents a unified, National Gold action to eliminate Sexual Harassment Sexual Assault, and as you violence. We also have a white remain va champion at 100 of Va Medical Centers in a tool kit was disseminated to facilities to support the local programming efforts. So far about 60,000 veterans, employees, has and Community Partners have taken a white va white ribbon va pledge. Done so much in the last two years to address the cultural health. Most recently we have the been named a partnership for Public Service is one of the top five best places to work in the federal government among large agencies. Vas first ever time in the top five. We were also named the most improved Large Federal Agency for 2021. In closing veterans their families, caregivers, and survivors are the heart of america. Having dedicated their lives to serving in sacrificing for this country, for all of us in the times we need the most thats when its our job to serve them as well as they have served us by providing timely access to World Class Health care and benefits. By offering them a wild environments in a safe welcoming environment. We will continue finding suggest that. We appreciate this word of this committee in achieving excellence for our nations veterans and we look forward to continuing to keep you apprized of our ongoing efforts. This concludes my statement, my colleague and i would be happy to answer any questions from you and the members of this thank you mr. Johnson, mr. Costa you are now recognized for five minutes. Thank you. Maam pleased to be here today to discuss the results of the report on Sexual Harassment at the department of Veterans Affairs. It negatively affects employees and employers. Our court reviewed efforts to address Sexual Harassment and mass va ranked among the federal agencies with the highest experience of Sexual Harassment, according to federal survey data. Based on our analysis of updated eight are from 2019 to 2021, the va continues to be among those agencies. I would 17 a va employees said that they had experienced as far as to 12 and the other agencies may i will highlight first that you recommendations that the va is implemented and second of the five open implementations and what more needs to be done to address them. Considering the close prevention situations finalized notebook that has some key steps for addressing these allegations. They also involvement dettori training that seemed in reporting methods complete available to employees. Five or accommodations, however are, remained home. We found the eco director position is misaligned with the directive, the official responsible for personal actions is also responsible for the complaint process in. We also note that bylaws the Elijah Cummings act. We recommended the va has addressed this, but the va has not addressed a consistent answer as to whether plans to do so. The va initially disagreed with a recommendation. In 2021 they said they agreed. In december of 2021 the va says they are only exploring options and in july the va against stated that they disagreed with the recommendation. Having the same person in charge of oversight and personal actions, including disciplinary action in the eo complaint process could create at a minimum the appearance of a conflict of interest. A road trust in the process. Moreover, vas position appears at odds with itself. Policy requires that the head of the eo process to be separate from past personnel functions and to have a direct line to the head of the agency. The basic senses mixers as both the head of personnel and the eco director, which appears countered policy. The eoc agrees that the person the primary accountability for the secretary and secretary forceps removed from the secretary if he is truly removed from the process. Second. The year old Program Managers are also misaligned. The va has taken some steps to reviving and expects to be done to the three administrations by the end of the fiscal year. The va has not taken a consistent approach to the administrations. The in the va statement to the administration they address unified model for the eo major position consistently aligned through the agency is one way to help achieve a unified model. They have no plan to realign their prop their management positions. They have stated they are considering reclassifying the you Program Managers, but its unclear how we cost firing them addresses the potential conflict of interest of our duties remain the same. The eoc and me continue to believe that the va much be sure that the program manages report to the secretary manager in charge of the process and not facility managers. While the va is building procedures to make sure that they are currently completely on such a review. Fourth, the va has updated its policies to require that managers report all Sexual Harassment allegations and create a tracking system for complaints both, which are positive steps however, va not yet assess the effectiveness of the tracking system or leverages someone internal or other external data to identify other areas that need additional attention. And fifth, we recommended that va ensure corrective actions decided on are actually implemented. However, va has not taken all the necessary steps to ensure there is documentation of these actions and that this information is entered into its tracking system. Without doing so, va cant be certain corrective actors are actually being implemented. We will address five are open recommendations by the end of the year. The structural recommendations about the placements eeo of functions will likely remain open because va as not a great eternally, agreed with our recommendations or with the eeo sea about whether its in compliance with eeo sea requirements. In conclusion, while va has taken some steps to face the recommendations and combat Sexual Harassment, we are not still able to protect our employees. Without taking additional steps to protect, some employees may lack trust and how allegations are dealt with about Sexual Harassment. And the privilege of Sexual Harassment at va may remain high. This concludes my statement, i look for to your question. Thank you very much, mister costa. But witnesses statements will be entered into the record. We will now turn to the questioning period of todays hearing. Ill start by recognizing myself for five minutes. Mr. , johnson maybe i can start with you. One thing is clear here, everybody in this room understands the importance of addressing Sexual Harassment. It is also clear that further action is needed to respond to continued high rates of harassment among vas workforce. We know that two years ago g. A. O. Made seven recommendations that would improve handling of Sexual Harassment allegations. And as mr. Costa tested two, only two of those recommendations have been implemented. I want to focus on the two priority recommendations, which remain an implemented. Mr. Costa detail how va lacks reporting and Leadership Structure that gives its employees confidence that Sexual Harassment complaints will be handled in a fair and impartial manner. These recommendations are based both on legal requirements and government wide best practices. So, mr. Johnson, weve learned already that the department has no intention of implementing the first recommendation. Va will not realign and ceo directors, so this person no longer oversees both the eo and personal functions of the department. Im just wondering if i understand this correctly . Thank you for that question, chairman pappas. At this time, va is not planning to realign the office of resolution management, diversity and inclusion under the deputy secretary. As you know, the ceo director va is the assistant secretary, hr and ios p. She reports directly to the deputy secretary. Lets get into the second one then. It is my understanding that the eeo Program Managers, the people that employees can go to an order to report Sexual Harassment, have already been reliant at the National Cemetery administration. And the Veterans Benefits administration as well. But when it comes to the h a, the department no longer believes this department is necessary. And what i if i have that right . You are correct in the realignment of vba, oh ca and o r t already complete. However, and this is breaking news, really, as of today, weve got a new undersecretary. Doctor funnel. He was sworn in by the secretary this week. By the, way he took the white ribbon pledge. But also, he is ready to put Energy Behind this recommendation and closed it out. So, we are going to start having discussions immediately with the ha to close at this recommendation of aligning those folks under the o r and d i. However, that would also require if that happens a statutory increase to the cap. We are kept right now at 406, we have to go back to this committee, as we have done before with vba and nca. To increase our cap from 406 to whatever that number would be. Okay, if im hearing youre right, there is a change here and your commitment is there for the ha for this realignment. But it sounds like we have some steps along the way to get to that end goal. So, we always ask the question, what will this occur . Can you give us a timeframe on when well see this realignment occur . Again, im sorry, is it too loud . We want to close this recommendation now. He has new aboard this week, i found this out today. Ive got to meet with the staff and come back with some timelines. Weve been working proactively with the professional staff of this committee and we will do that in the immediate followup. We want to work with you on that and we want timelines. So, lets go those ethically as we can. Thank you for your cooperation there. Mr. Costa, maybe i can turn to you. Just in a practical sense, what will be the impact of va employees if the department ignores that First Priority recommendation that you talked about . Thank, you mister chairman. My concern here is that people will not see the eeo process as independent. We heard that when we talk to employees, we heard that when we talk to eeo personnel at the department. And folks working on the hpp process. There are strong concerns that there needs to be more independent for the eeo process. Because the person in charge of hr is also in charge of discipline and defending the department. So, if there are concerns that that person is going to not take and eeo complaints seriously because theyre going to want to defend but department instead of pursuing that complaint. I think theres a real challenge here. Im also concerned that the department has changed its mind several times on other eight concurs with this recommendation, as well as our second recommendation. Im heartened to hear that theyre going to pursue the second recommendation now. But in the, past they had agreed and agreed and disagreed again. And i think as a followthrough there. Well, thanks for those comments. Just to reiterate, there is bipartisan concern here among our Committee Members that va is not moving fast enough to fix some major structural issues that she a oh and eeoc have identified and it is the responsibility of you to do so. We look forward to continuing to exploring these issues through this hearing and beyond. My time is, up so i want to turn things over to our next question. That is Ranking Member man for five minutes. Thank you mister chair. Mr. Johnson, while i appreciate the department convening a working group on Sexual Assault and the sub council of the va surprised governments. I worry that these types of efforts are bureaucratic and dont lead to real change. What change do you expect to see from these groups . Thank you for that question Ranking Member maam. It has been a lot. We have a lot of work not focused strictly on the d. C. Area. I will start, again thank you for that, we now have directives, we have handbooks and they mandate certain actions their mandate required reporting they mandate the process. So, we now have a consistent process that is promulgated. We also have policies. Policies are not consistent because we have a Governance Council before we had disparate offices working on this it all comes after harassment prevention, assault Prevention Council that is main managed enterprise wide. We have governments on this. We have remediation plans in place so if a facility has five incidents of substantiated harassment or assault now they have to complete a very strict remediation process that is approved by a medical the possibility a visitor of higher leadership comes to our office, we work with it. We have timelines on all this to happen. We have done so much i think in the last two years and we do technical cyst interviews interviews in the field. The yes miss Amber Crombie the johnson the . Yes i want to share that into our largest facility we talk about employees not knowing that someone will be there to hear what their concerns are. We are so proud of the display because sometimes just seeing a poster pulled up and as i ate a point of contact. We have a full cadre that are trained at the designated point of contact that well hear those individuals that bring those concerns and get those to the leadership. We have that data to support what weve done with that in the benefit it has brought to our facilities at the hospital. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Next question, again for you mr. Johnson. Organizational changes and Position Description modifications are all good, but Sexual Harassment is not prevented by these things. Strong leaders and a moral culture or what prevent Sexual Harassment. Being leaders and facilities around the country are carrying the responsibility to protect, serve, and empower their staff. What is ole are empty i doing to address this fundamental requirement in solving the Sexual Harassment problem . I think one of the first things we did is make sure that now as miss johnson Amber Crombie stated, we have points of contacted every facility. Those become force multipliers for us. They tell us what is happening on the ground. These werent in place two years ago. Through government governments we get meeting biweekly and work streams meet weekly. This is not a headquarters that, enterprise level thing. I resistance argumentative last week on Technical Assistance for you looking at facilities. I was pleased to see signage all around the facility on how to purport things. I do believe and we are starting to see, we will get increased numbers because, i heard the comments in the Opening Statements about trust. We have built a program. Part of our sub council includes strategic in game engagement and announcement. Annual distribution letters. We are getting our word out and have to rely on those who experience harassment to feel safe and confident to come to us. Okay. A followup would be to mr. Costa. I know you just have a minute left. But what best practices have you seen work to address and and Sexual Harassment and other agencies and organizations . And you believe those could be applied to va . Sir, i think one of the first things that should be done is looking at the alignment of their eeo process. As long as people and employees dont trust that process and have concerns about whether or not it is independent of either facility managers or hr, that process isnt going to work and people are going to report. As we discussed before, the msp bees survey data indicates theres nearly 70,000 people who have experienced Sexual Harassment. But only several hundred are actually reporting any Sexual Harassment. Theres a pretty wide golf there between what that survey is suggesting and what va is actually getting in its reporting. I see my time is expiring. Thank you. Thank you. Chairwoman brownley, you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you, mister chairman, very much. Mr. Johnson the, harassment Preventative Program handbook notes that managers should ensure corrective actions are taken. However, it does not provide procedures for managers to document evidence of corrective action or for your office to monitor that information. So, can you talk a little bit about what steps va is taken to ensure that corrective actions our answer resulting in assurances that complaint are documented and actually taking place. Thank you for that question, congresswoman brownley. The handbook does actually require four officers to report back to us whatever corrective actions were taken. Through the hp be process. Its a 30day business day process, and one of the managers or whoever is conducting the fact finding, the decisionmakers, its all with er al our general counsel, they canceled the table of penalties. We have all sorts of resources available. But then they have to get back to us, and we do track what happened, if there are any followups. And congresswoman brownley, were also excited this year we were just given access to alert hr. We can actually go into the hr system to see us as corrective actions did occur. And that is handled at our office. How are you assured that i hear youre saying the handbook says its mandated. But how are you assured . What is the check and balance there to ensure that all complaints are happening and that the mandate is being fulfilled . Absolutely. So, one of the things that were actually launching, a new initiative, and august, is a compliance program. We already have one for years oconnell Technical Assistance reviews. But were launching one in august where we plan to hit, at least coming out the gate, about a dozen. Because we already have some volunteers, but we also look at data. We see there are anomalies in that data, we can select the facility. But that program will look at the number of complaints, the policies. He looks at a number of things to make sure that they are consistent with what the handbook calls for. And our program. Thank you. So, good mr. Johnson, during the 2020 hearing i asked va how over the course of three years there were only 15 reports of Sexual Harassment that resulted in employment correction action. Since that hearing, how many reports of employee Sexual Harassment were filed . And how many of those resulted in documented corrective action . So, i could probably provide this queue better. I have some numbers here, but we do track. We track everything from admonishments, the motions, removals, reprimands, suspensions. I have been broken down by quarter, id be happy to provide that. Okay, well the gao just alluded to the fact that, in terms of these surveys and so forth, that the Sexual Harassment occurring within the va is high. Higher than i think most federal agencies. But yet, the reported and documented, reported actions that documented corrective actions, a relatively low. We talked about how theres a pretty significant goal. Do you agree with that . Do you see that as alarming, that okay, we need to pay more attention to this . I do agree that two years ago, this was a huge program problem. However, i am seeing the lot of these corrective things are now happening in the last two years. I know that that gao report looked at 2018, 19, 20. But as i stated in my opening comments, in the last two years, a lot of the things that i have about 21 initiatives i could explain today. These things didnt exist. I read that study, im embarrassed to see that because i have a lot of pride in va. We are committed, absolutely, to turn existing around and fixing it. And i think we are. Okay, well, i hope what youre saying is true. I just feel as though, i was very involved in the debris sampson bill, i feel theres a huge sense of urgency here. It is taking a long time to get to a place where we can actually say we have a zero tolerance Sexual Harassment policy. And that the va is really focused on this issue, and bill they get environment for their employees that is safe and trusting. I think the numbers tell us something. The data tells us something. Those numbers are important, to be able to tell ourselves how well were doing. But also, it tells us we could learn from this data, to find out what kinds of things we need to do in order to really address particular kinds of harassment that is taking place across the enterprise. So, you know, i still feel like there is a lot of work ahead. I hear you that you feel confident that you are on that road to successful completion. But ill just say, were going to keep a strong eye on this because its really important. And we really need that sense of urgency. So, thank you, and i yield back, mister chairman. Thank you, chairwoman bradley. I will now recognize miss Coleman Radewagen for five minutes. Thank you chairman pappas and Ranking Member man for holding this important hearing today. Thank you to the panel for your testimony. Putting an end to Sexual Harassment at the department of Veterans Affairs is something we all wish we could hand wave and fix. But unfortunately, that is not the world we live in. Thankfully, my colleagues on both sides of the aisle have never shied away from hard work when it comes to protecting our veterans and the staff that supports them. And i look forward to ensuring that va is successfully implementing policies like those in that Deborah Sampson act. Of which i am proud to have supported since the early drafts. All the way through passage, as well as addressing any additional gaps in policy or Workplace Culture surrounding harassment at va. Mr. Johnson, why have so few employees participated in Bystander Intervention training . What are your plans to market this training for more employees . So, congresswoman radewagen, thank you for that question. First of all, before i even begin, thank you for the last time i spoke with you. We have done a lot for o konas and freely associated states on equity assessments. Just know that we are doing a lot of things there. As far as bystanders adventure training, it is a really neat program. It is a 35 minute interactive training that anyone can take online. For employees, its mandatory. For veterans, were trying to get as many veterans out there to take it. One of the things we did is an annual distribution letter to all veterans. I believe we had close to 16 million veterans that were signed up. You either got it through the mail or on email, depending on whatever your preference was. Thats one way. The second way is through our Strategic Engagement workgroup, as part of that new sub council. We are working with the vsos, tribal and other stakeholders there. Id love to see more veterans take this. I think today weve had Something Like 16,000 clicks. So, we are tracking it, were also tracking through surveys, survey monkey, their gender, age, what they like most about the bystander techniques. So, its a great program. They look for help from anyone that could hear my voice, to make sure our veterans are taking that. You can go to our website and anyone can participate in the Bystander Intervention trading. So, mr. Johnson, can you please tell us more about the work of the office of small and disadvantaged business utilization . To help grow veteran women owned small businesses. Absolutely, but ill tell you whats really an enterprise effort. Again, we have the ideas of council, inclusion, diversity, equity and access. We work very closely with that organization, with the center for women veterans. Theres a number of organizations involved. Because, again, it is a governance effort. And we have the miter group on board, they are helping us do equity assessments to underserved communities. This is a fabulous initiative. We have rich data that we are starting to gather. Now, we are in the process of turning those insights into actions. Thank, you chairman pappas, i yield back. Thank you very much. I will now recognize mr. Bergman, general bergman, for five minutes. Thank you, mister chairman. Lead by example, pretty simple. Marines, pretty much everybody in the military are pretty simple. Be that example. After leadership, we know, when you have a task, no matter what the task is, if youre trying to make it better, the culture of behavior that you promote, if you will, exemplify as a leader, goes a long way toward compliance. Not compliance because you have to, but compliance because you want to. That truly is kind of unique. However, in any organization, especially one as broad and fast as va, you in some cases get the behavior you inspect. Not the behavior you expect at times. And that is what it is. So, mr. Johnson, leaders do set the tone. The culture of an organization, from a small office to something as large as the va, is dictated by what leaders do. What behavior they allow from their staff. How do you and your office work to correct the leadership failures, and to support those good leaders working to correct that culture . So, general, congressman bergman, thank you for that question. As a former infantry officer i understand follow and lead, do as i do. I think weve exhibited that today. What we came, here one of the first things we started doing was passing out white ribbons and signing up people to pledge. That is because we are committed. Everywhere we go, we do allyship. I am looking for everybody to be a partner. I do a lot of speaking engagements at conferences, training events. I travel quite often. My staff travels often. We have so many people committed to this that want to do the right thing. One of the Biggest Challenges i have, its actually a great challenge, as we get a lot of volunteers. How can i help . How can i help . Weve got to figure out, through the Governance Council, how we bring, and im going to call them again, force multipliers in to get them engaged. I dont to cut you short here but, along that line, because visits operate independently. You have the head, corporate va. But then the visit ends, any issues there that you have had to confront because one visited one way and another a different way . I dont believe that exist anymore. Because again, we have standard policies and procedures, starting with handbooks and procedures. Ive not found that to be an issue. And the distance are always involved, we build those partnerships. Mr. Costa, do you believe that the va is effectively correcting leadership failures . It is the va taking the proper steps to support good leaders working to correct that culture . Your comments, please. Yes, sir. We believe that there is more to be done. The misalignment of the eeo functions, as i mentioned before, is a big issue. It is a large impediment to people feeling comfortable coming forward with their concerns and complaints. Without that information, the department doesnt have the ability to address that information as effectively as it could. And police at the department is taking action on three of our five recommendations, it sounds like theyre going to start taking action on a fourth. But we still think a lot more needs to be done there. We will continue to monitor va progress in those areas. But again, i would emphasize that the structural issues are not in significant and, speaking to having one, unified model, having vha handle eeo complaints differently than the rest of the agency is one way in which things are not unified. And we will have to monitor that to see how the department moves forward with that and when it can implement vha operating the same way as the rest of the department. Thank you. I see my time is running short here. Sense of urgency. There is zero tolerance for any type of this behavior, because it is negative and detrimental to any culture and to the dignity of the men and women who serve. And those who serve those who served. Thank you for not stopping. It will never end, but you can stem it. With that, i yield back. Thank, you general bergman. Now yield to representative castor, a guest of the subcommittee. Welcome, you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you so much, chairman pappas. And thank you for allowing me to waive on for this important hearing. Four years ago, the merit sisters protection board came out with a survey detailing how va employees faced higher levels of Sexual Harassment than any other department in the federal government. No one should have to go to work and be subjected to harassment and made to feel unsafe. Frankly, this is unacceptable in the va because their medical and support staff cannot provide the very best care for our veterans when they face this kind of mistreatment. After that survey, my republican colleague, general bergman, and i teamed up and tasked the gao to study the va and published a report on how addressing Sexual Harassment affects the va workforce. I appreciate that some steps have been taken in the past two years since the report came out. But i am concerned that more progress has not been made. It is imperative that all of gao its recommendations be fully implemented, and as quickly as possible. I echo the urgency that general bergman has stated today. However, there is more to be done. To understand the urgency, we dont have to look any further than a second mspb survey conducted last year. The findings are that va employees still report experiencing significantly higher levels of harassment. And 17 above the federal government to average. Compare that response to the only 440 complaints of harassment filed by va employees last year, in a department of over 405,000 people. The discrepancy is stark, and i would argue the only realistic way to read this vast underreporting of complaints is that in play still dont have the confidence that the va will resolve this behavior. With that in mind, let me turn to our panel. A major deficiency found in the 2020 gao report was that harassment complaints werent being centrally compiled. Thankfully, that is now changing. Mr. Johnson, how are the va supervisors being made aware that they must essentially report complaints of Sexual Harassment they receive to your office . Or what are the repercussions if they do not . Im thank you for those questions, congresswoman kuster. I want to start with those facility points of contact. They are in every facility, they are our eyes and ears on the ground. Those are the folks that are involved, those folks know to get it to us within two business days, 48 hours. Thats where it starts. Is it clear that swift accountability is essential to demonstrate to employees that something will be done about that harassing behavior . Do you think that principle has gotten through at the institutional level . I absolutely do. I believe that because of secretary mcdonagh and his leadership, and deputy secretary ramy. I have talked about this more than anyone ive ever seen. Good, as well they should. And maam, can i yield to my colleague . Representative kuster, the other thing weve done thats different is, at our departmental level, we are actually notifying our senior level officials of those harassment allegations are not addressed with inside the time limit. And we are reporting them. Reporting it up not only to those in charge of facility, but to our desk that goes up to the secretary and report. Theyre being called out if theyre not operating appropriately. I think the accountability is so critical. Mr. Costa, one of gao recommendations was that the va do a better job at ensuring corrective actions are taken in instances where Sexual Harassment has been substantiated. Do you have a perspective on any progress va has made in this regard since the report came out . Yes, congresswoman. The va has made it clear in its hpp handbook that managers should ensure that corrective actions are taken. That is a step forward. Our concerns there are that it does not lay out exactly what sort of documentation needs to be provided, or evidence to show that action has been taken. We have seen in the past with Government Agencies where somebody says an action has been taken but then, when you actually go look, they thought about it but they never did it or whatever. Our concern here is just to make sure that sufficient documentation to show that actions actually have been taken to create a trusting environment for employees. One of the things that we heard in our previous work was that ablaze didnt feel there was accountability for Sexual Harassment. I think its critically important that there is not just reported but there is the evidence to prove that the corrective action has been taken. Thank you. I would again call on general bergman, i know representative brownley is working on this. But the urgency in the accountability is key, thank you, i yield back. Thank you very much. I think weve gone through the list, but i have a couple more some of you will go for a second round here. For the witnesses i think youre all aware. Last year i introduced a bill, improving va accountability for discrimination. The bipartisan, bell passed the house, would require some of the structural changes at the gao and eeoc have called for. It addresses employee training, case tracking, updated harassment prevention policies. Mr. Costa, does gao see the need for the legislation that i put for that we still hope can make it through the senate . Sir, we have not had a chance to fully reviewed the legislation but we are definitely appreciating that it does include a number of our recommendations. And would codify those recommendations. Such as making the Program Managers at the va facilities report to ormdi and that the managers receive harassment training and so forth. We appreciate that very much. I think there is an alignment of missions between the legislation and your recommendation. So, we appreciate those comments. Miss johnsonabercrombie, im wondering if you have thoughts on the bill . The departments size, does this clarify what congress would like to see in terms of vas anti harassment reporting structure . Thank you for that question, chairman pappas. Ive seen the, bill im familiar with, it but we have to discuss that with our leadership. Okay. Well, were going to keep pushing for it. As i said, this bill passed to the house, as bipartisan and i think its reflective of the themes that we are hearing from members here today. Maybe i could just ask another quick one about the handbook. That harassment prevention handbook, newly released by the department earlier this year. According to the handbook, supervisors have a duty to separate parties within one business day upon receipt of an allegation of Sexual Harassment. During the separation, im wondering, our complaints, complainants, able to request a transfer of unit or even facility . Or can they request paid leave . Or is remote work generally an option while on investigation is running its course . Thank you for that question. Generally, we have an interactive process where the manager will sit down with the a ledger, the alleged harasser, consult he are l r, all those things. Within a, process questions can be asked installations found. Its unique for each situation but to answer your question, yes. We want to immediately separate them away to the fact finding, and offer whatever relief we can. First and foremost, it is to make sure that the harassment has stopped. And that the employee is safe. Can you address the issue of confidentiality as well . I know the handbook underscores that point. But from a practical standpoint, im just wondering what that means in that process. Who has to be notified that a complaint has been made . What is your offices role in making sure that a complainant doesnt face retaliation or appraisal as a result . Theres two forms they can contact us. One is through the eeo process, where the only department can process a eeo complaint, ormdi. I say that the is strictly maintained. No one else can see, that whether they charen, alex we on that process. The harassment prevention process, which is more preventative because that eeo is more severe cases and can lead to monetary non monetary, we work with fact finders. So, they reported to us and it is a need to know. We do obviously need to interview key witnesses, et cetera. But again, it is a need to know. Okay. Can you address the issue of these volunteer fact finders that our trade to conduct investigations . And vas policy, to me, is unclear at one supervisors a supposed to utilize these volunteer fact finders versus conducting and investigation themselves. Can you shed any light on that issue . Absolutely. One of the things we did, thank you for giving us 22 more harassment coordination personnel, but even thats not enough. What weve done is sought volunteers only trained of did the Law Enforcement training center, al atc. Last i checked, we had i think 400 folks ending up for that training. That way, it is consistent trading that we know these facts fighters have. What that does is it gives us a cadre of inspectors, fact finders, that can go there and do these things that report back to us. Okay, thanks for those clarifications, i appreciate that. Ranking member man, you are recognized. Thank you, chairman. Mr. Costa, how best can gao and this committee track if va efforts to track Sexual Harassment are meeting the mark . Sir, i think, looking at all the sources of data is going to be the best way. Va is collecting data, as mr. Johnson said, on a number of different aspects. And that is good. We can track the number of hpp complaints, the number of eeoc complaints. We would also like the department to also analyze the mspb data, which we have analyzed twice. We think theres something to be found there. Where we found that there is 70 in the last two years that have reported having Sexual Harassment of some nature. But were only seeing several hundred sorts of complaints, or fewer. Any given year. So, there is a disparity there and i think that analyzing that data is of critical importance. I know the department is doing some of, that we would like to see some more. Thank you. For you, mr. Johnson, somewhat similar, but what metric should we be examining to determine if your efforts to eliminate harassment in the department are working . So Ranking Member mann, thank you for that. I believe the data tells the narrative. Disparate systems, i believe our last report was on december 24th. We analyze that data, we have data scientists on board that look at that data. The other thing were doing, this is one of our newer initiatives, is we have an enterprise unifying dashboard coming out in fy 23. We have an enterprise unifying solution, and prices them, that will stand down all these legacy systems. I believe we are targeting quarter two of fy 24. So, right now, weve got disparate systems. Theyre a little bit dated. But where the to build something much more savvy. And i think that is a minute. And what metrics and that about tracking. Theres all sorts of data you can collect, but what, you can have to drill into, what are the metrics and the key things that have to look at. I think one of the key things for us we have to look at what happened and how it happened and intellectual type deal. These are some of the things we paired out on in the study. If its happening in a certain region, is it something spilling into that region . Whats causing . Yet i really think were looking at this from so many ways. Okay. One last question for you mr. Johnson, and your written testimony, and again, a little bit ago, you mentioned the sent 16 billion letters to veterans telling them about the departments anti harassment and Sexual Assault policy. I understand that youre required to do that because of the sampson act. Ive heard from veterans that were a little confused by why they were receiving it. They found it to be overly bureaucratic, not very helpful. In your minds, what was in the letter. Do you think it was helpful . At what cost was that you said 16 million letters. Just some questions regarding that. Sure thing. We did the, this is the first time that i recall in my tenure. We did send it out, that was the first. We are looking for feedback, because were looking to do it again this year. It went out as of because i received it talked about events and training, zero tolerance, all those things. I appreciate that feedback, i appreciate all the feedback. We will pivot, as necessary. Great. I have no further questions. I thank you. Chairwoman bradley, recognized for five minutes. Thank, you mister chairman. And mr. Johnson, and i wanted to sort of follow up on my last line of questioning. You know, we were talking about how the data and the va collects helps the va better understand the trends and Sexual Harassment. Now that you are processes have improved, can you talk a little bit about what you would say that some of the trends are with regard to cyclical . Absolutely. Thank you for that question. One of the things we looked at, and i looked at a facility that had now participating in a mediation program. I wanted to see why. Legal jackson and i have been studying this. And one case, we had someone who had an intellectual disability inappropriately grab a health care providers. They did it three times. No they did it in such a short period that its why it happened three times. Its not like it happened over a period of months. It happened in a short period. Three complaints. We look at that sort of stuff. We also look at, is it just bad behavior or criminal . Im disgusted by it. I dont understand why it happens today. I am always looking for why offenders do this, and whats causing it. We look at the reports to see whos doing it and why. I dont know if that answers your question. It doesnt, really. I cant imagine someone with an intellectual disability is a trend. After that example, you keep saying that youre looking at it, you dont have tolerance for it, but im wondering if you can articulate specific trends . I think some of the trends we would, say in that some of the corrective answer, that i think with. Taken ive heard things like, hey baby. Or your too pretty to be a veteran. Those are things that some folks didnt realize was offensive. If you go to our facilities now we have posters that say, thats not acceptable. If you talk about trends, one of those trends will talk about, because its something, and ill call it the whole way of more folks just conjugate. Someone walks by, something said. We have done a number of things to correct those. Everything from turning chairs, making sure that people dont conjugate, and an open area or as were a lot of things happened. I think thats where it starts. Every time i walk a facility, i walk those areas. I am looking for it, ready to abide by standard of ancient draining. Weve talked a lot about the effect that we now have standard policies and procedures in the handbook. I think the g8 can corps that thats a strong step in the right direction. It still sounds like the standardize asian around documentation and sort of a standard procedure that action has been taken doesnt seem to be necessarily in place. You know, the va is such a huge enterprise, the challenge always is, you know, how to scale something across the organization that is consistent across the organization. So, i think if im understanding the g. A. O. Correctly, there are looking for you know, that standardize asia and a, fuel, all of documentation. Of procedure that action has been taken. Can you talk a bit about that . Absolutely. I also want to defer to my colleague, but ill start off with this sub council on this topic is really the governance thats making it standardized. That is in place. We can become more sophisticated, but it isnt our hands. Those are the forms that were supposed to send us. Electronic notices, everything else. Bernie tao, would you like to add more. Absolutely, sir, then q. One of the things that weve also done, and as johnson has described in the hospitals, if we have an individual who is grabbing, and appropriately text seen one of our team members, that keeps being for to our disruptive behavior committee, each case is looked at individually. If this behavior continues, the veteran is addressed. Either they are escorted to their appointments, or they may have to find a medical care at another va facility, if we cant get that. Thats part of that debris samson act. Is there to do that, some of those individuals available to do that. The staff also afforded us with a committee. Coordinators will have more people onsite to build a presence. Youll be able to see more statistics, and a change in the behavior is because we have cautionary things put in place. Thank you for that. Just one last note is on this white ribbon pledge. I think its always good to have a campaign to raise awareness. I just want to make sure its not a campaign to window dress something thats, you know, that were not working hard at correcting. You know, i would say that were manifested in a reality. We are talking about this stuff, it is real. I believe it. Were still going to have some bad behaviors. Some people are going to act in appropriate. They have to be dealt with swiftly. Thank you. Thank you mister chairman. Thank you. Will now recognize chairman to counter for five minutes. Thank you. Either mr. Johnson or miss petito johnson, secretary wilkie two years ago, in response to a letter i sent on this topic, stated on equivocally that the eo, the eo managers and va hospitals would be your realigns in the office that you all lead. This is contingent upon the availabilitys funds. Of course, this would address two of the g. E. O. Primary va has not requested funding for this transition, and any of the budget cycle since. I wanted to know why you think thats the case, and when will this realignment be included in the departments annual budget request. Thank you for that question, chairman to cano. The new undersecretary for health this morning, was sworn in this. Week the decision was made to try to close this recommendation out. We will work actively with Veterans Health administration on this. Weve already got some work on it. We also work with the subcommittee, in your professional staff to, do this. Well, as you know, budgeting is about priorities. It tells you what youre about. When we see something not included in the budget, the message often ends up becoming that this is not a priority of yours. I hope we can see stronger signals from the department that this is a priority. For mr. Johnson, i want to touch on the merits systems pretension boards latest survey results showing that 17 of the employees experience some form of Sexual Harassment and the prior two years, with more than 400,000 they indicate there have been tens of thousands of workers whove been subjected to inappropriate or prohibitive contact. Yet, in the year ending on july one 2021, fewer than 100 feet employees have come forward with former Sexual Assault complaints. How do you account for the discrepancy . Thank you for that question chairman to cano. I would tell you that we have built say i do see that those numbers will exponentially grow. I do feel like those numbers are starting to grow. Before we had disparate systems, or offices open doing this for the last five years. Now, we brought everyone together. I think you will see that people will start to utilize this program. Its certainly, as of now, i dont think we all believe that fewer than 500 employees, have been harassed, or i have had issues. Youre right. Its actually more than that. If i look at a quarter to this year, because thats my ill get quarter through here soon, were about 600 now. Ive told folks, that to me is going to speak to folks that we now have a program in place. Do not be aligned by those numbers going up. I do think that we built something that people will start to utilize. They will start to get the message out. Zero tolerance. Thank you. Mr. Costa, would you like to respond to this question as well . Sure, mister chairman. I agree. Im hopeful that the departments efforts are going to be successful. I would expect that if they are, i agree that you would see an increase in the number of complaints coming in. I do think that, as i mentioned before, the structural issue was significant impediment to people coming forward. We heard repeatedly in our past work that people felt that there was not accountability. I think as long as, you know, the eo Program Managers at vha are responding to foodie members, because log is mr. Johnson four layers of management to get to the secretary, i think theres a challenge there as well. I think the Department Needs to address both of those. From what i hear, im heartened here that the department is changed its mind. This morning on real lining with the va jay eo Program Managers. I hope that we see some follow through on that. Thank you mr. Costa. Mr. Johnson and miss johnson, do you have anything to say about Additional Resources or authorities that you need to prove that vas handle and Sexual Harassment complaints . I believe right now this committee has been very generous. We have been in the process now bringing in new eco harassment prevention specialist, 12 dni. I think we have got into that. Will reassess again what we need. Right now, we are very happy with that. The numbers that youve given us. All right. Do you have anything else to add . No . I yield back to mr. Chair. Thank you. I think we are fine. As we work on the realignment of the staff this will be back to ask for the additional well thank you. No further questions from members would you like to offer any closing comments here . Thank you for doing the. As we have a lot of work in front of us still. We gotta see leadership, commitments, we gotta make progress. Thank you. Certainly agree with that statement mr. Johnson i appreciate the news today about the realignment that you mentioned. Certainly will want to hear from the deputy secretary himself confirming that and showing that is going to move forward, again on timelines we would appreciate some further information on when that will be fully executed. I think todays hearing has shown some progress thats been made over the last couple years at the department of veteran affairs, but this hearing has also underscored how additional reform is needed to remove real or perceived conflicts of interest that may be discouraging from Sexual Harassment. These deficiencies mirrored the continuing to work with you both, mr. Johnson and as well as with deputy separately to ensure a longstanding g. E. O. Renovations, provisions of federal law or not. Mr. Costa, thank you as well we look forward to continued engagement with thank you to all Witnesses Today for participating in. We believe that its well represented here, there are legislative days to revise the remarks, now this hearing is adjourned. Thank you. An email to the majority staff, the top five gun manufacturers to get their bottom more than 1 million in revenue for the sale of assault weapons