Transcripts For CSPAN2 Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20140117

Not discussing a transition, and if he thinks hes going to be part of that future. Its not going to happen. The people who are the opponents of this regime will never, ever stop. They will be an insurgency at least and worse potentially even than a civil war if it continues, because they will not stop. Now we also are not out of options with respect to what we may be able to do to increase the pressure and further change the calculation. And i think weve made that clear to the Russian Foreign minister and others. Nor are the other players short of an ability to be yet to have an impact here. So i think they can bolster, they can protest, they can put out distortions. At the bottom line is we are going to geneva to implement jimmy fell one. And if assad doesnt do that he will invite greater response in various ways for various people over a period of time. So im not particularly surprised that hes trying to divert this, hes been doing this for months to make himself the protector against extremists when he himself had in finding some of those extremists even purposely feeding territory to them to make them more of a problem so he can make the argument that he is somehow the protector. Nobody is going to be fooled. We are not going to be fooled by this process. So, you know, the foreign minister lavrov has stated they are supporting the geneva1 communique and the government has to negotiate around that. And since russia is one of the primary benefactors of the regime, we believe the russians have a high stake in helping to make certain that alassad understands exactly what the parameters of this negotiation. [inaudible] the people here in north america many people here in the u. S. Have been asking the government to update and take into account the reality of the recently passed Energy Reform in mexico so i would like to get a sense from the three of you if you would be willing to update that that we can open it formally . And to include some of the recent issues such as the reform and secretary kerry, especially for you, what is your response to those that believe the u. S. Should include canada and mexico in the negotiations if only to avoid future conflict between the rules and what ever you wind up with agreeing with. Let me speak first and i would like each of our guests to address this also. You know, over the last 20 years as i mentioned, weve developed this incredible network of trade agreements in the western hemisphere. And we have long wanted to open up those benefits. I think that stepping up all of us have to the ttp is a critical component in moving to the next year to compose nafta. I dont think you have to open up naphtha per say to achieve what we are trying to achieve. There are plenty of ways for us in cooperative and we discussed a lot of them this morning, with respect to borders, with respect to regulations, with respect to energy cooperation, technology, innovation, investment. There are a host of things that we can move forward on that will take us to the next level without having to sort of go back and kind of reopen that. I think we are well engaged and looking forward to a more robust relationship. What we did do today is set down a series of specific items that we will follow up on quickly so that these can be the items that president s and Prime Minister wind up in beijing on in the meeting in february. And i think that todays meeting holds out the prospect that that can be a more productive and more specific engagement as a result. We believe that it has been unqualified. The Transpacific Partnership trade negotiations all three of us were in offers the opportunity to strengthen the Trilateral Partnership and we are working to view that opportunity to do so. Nafta has worked on many levels. In the past 20 years it is multiplied by three and a direct investment in the region multiplied by eight. Mexico is now the third trading partner in the u. S. , canada with the second in the fifth market of the u. S. And canada prospectively. Just to put it in perspective, mexico is the first market for exports of arizona, california. The second largest export market for the other 20 states. Again, to put the numbers in perspective, the exports to mexico just from the u. S. Or larger than exports to china and japan together. They were larger than germany, france and the u. K. Put together. And that is a platform of which we have an opportunity to build, and an opportunity with secretary kerry to reopen nafta. But the thing we have to build on is to construct and revitalize the idea of a dynamic north america. North america is the single most important economic tool today. The economy is standing before you here today. Its been about onethird of the world economy. We explained we are the largest exporters of most advanced industries, and we have therefore the obligation to review how the economic process is going in such a way as to remove any of the costs for the trade investment and Economic Prosperity to be a reality to the citizens of all three of our countrys. The commitment we have reached today will allow us to develop an agenda to follow through, to have mechanisms that allow for the commitment that will need to be fully implemented. The trade relationship with your up at some point we will have the three bilateral trade agreement with the european union. It is in the interest of mexico that those negotiations are to the benefit of the north american region. We think that is in the best interest of canada and the u. S. As well, and we will work to ensure that those negotiations further increase north americas competitiveness. Eventually to having a more integrated and prospect of north america and the european union. My question is on a bilateral matter. The keystone pipeline. Last february, secretary kerry, you said you were hoping to be in a position to offer a decision on keystone in the near future. Its been almost a year. Since then, the canadian government said they wouldnt take no for an answer. So this week the canadian interlocutor is in washington and has repeatedly asked for a decision to, because apparently the uncertain is becoming an attainable. So i would ask you to answer your canadian friend. I always answer my canadian friend that i have to do it according to our administrative process and the rules and regulations under which i have to operate, and i think that he understands that. We are currently engaged in the Environmental Impact statement analysis, and the analysis will be made groome with respect to the National Interest alternately, and we are just not at that point yet there were a lot of questions were raised of all of the Public Comment period and those comments have necessitated appropriate answers. The public has a role in this. We are all accountable to the public. The space process demands that we do that. So we are giving it and i can promise our friends in canada all of the prieta effort is being put into trying to get this done effectively, and my hope is before long the analysis would be available and my work begins. We have had discussions about this in the past and we will be meeting bilaterally today. This is a tremendously important project for the future prosperity of the canadian economy. 26 months ago, Hillary Clinton called to explain the concerns the administration had with the aquifer and we are pleased the proponent has worked with the state to realign the pipeline. In short order the administration will be in the position to make a positive decision. This is a great project for the future Economic Prosperity of canada, a great project that will put a lot of jobs here in the United States. Its a great project that will increase the Energy Security of our closest friend and ally. We obviously want to see and look forward to a positive decision to introduce security and a positive decision to job creation. Thank you, everyone. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. [inaudible conversations] as the News Conference wraps up if you missed any of it with secretary kerry and his canadian and mexican counterparts you can see it any time in the video library. Go to cspan. Org. Well, and about 50 minutes we will have more coverage as president obama will give a speech on pending changes to the surveillance program. Internet Service Providers are the gatekeepers and they are to cited Networks Like any gatekeepers. Theres somebody on one side and somebody on the other side, and so the situation than is a very similar to the credit card industry. So, we all have credit cards, and then theres the Credit Card Company and on the other side there is a restaurant and its very useful for restaurants that we all have credit cards and its useful for us that all the restaurants will take them. But its not so useful if the gate keeper says now some of these restaurants we are not going to allow them to participate in the system. Translating that to the present, its the Internet Service provider were to say, you know, not all the people that are putting the content on their computers, we dont want all of them to be able to have access to all of the users. Thats a problem with the gatekeeper be heading that way. On wednesday the governors of oklahoma and colorado spoke about some of the challenges states are facing while criticizing an action by the federal government. Governor mary fallin is the chair of the National Governors association. Governor John Hickenlooper is vice chair. Good morning. Its great to see such a good crowd here this morning. We appreciate all of you joining us here today. Im governor mary fallin from the state of oklahoma, and i want to thank you for coming to our annual state of the state address by the National Governors association. Its my privilege to serve not only as the fire of the state of oklahoma, the National Governors association share. Joining me today is the vice chair, the governor of colorado, governor John Hickenlooper. Governor, welcome. [applause] you know, governors, we have to make government work. We do not have the luxury of inaction. We have to lead our states while also balancing our budgets. We are now midway through the 113th, chris coming and governors are frustrated. Besides the recent budget agreement, partisan gridlock continues to prevent longterm policy solutions. We are doing our part as governors to create jobs and address the challenges facing our state and in this country, but we also believe that now it is time for our federal partners to do their part and to take action. But in taking action, the federal government must acknowledge and learn from and work with the states to develop solutions facing our nation. We call this partnership flexible federalism. Its a willingness to give states flexibility to improve programs and policies and to support them in those efforts. For example, governors have outlined what flexible federalism would look like in relation to the issue of the deficitreduction. We believe a couple of principles. One is that federal reform should produce savings not only on the federal side but also for the states. Deficitreduction should not be accomplished by shifting the cost to the states. And also, through the unfunded mandates. The states should be given increased flexibility to create efficiencies and to achieve results. Congress should not impose maintenance efforts, effort provisions on the state and the conditions of the funding to the states. So, lets go back and look at one year ago. Because one year ago last january, i stood before you and we reviewed the challenges that the states faced coming and we highlighted our challenges for the vision for 2013. Congress had just had a last minute new years deal to resolve the budget impasse one year ago. To avoid the march 1st sequestered by implementing a Thoughtful Solutions to reduce the deficit and to promote Economic Growth. In february, the en g8 joined several other organizations urging the congress to complete a long overdue reauthorization of the elementary and secondary education act facing the flaw in the no child left behind bill. And in march, they provided principles for tax reform. Also offering concrete suggestions and consistent and intertwined with the interest of the state and the federal government are working together. In may, the governors lead the path forward and released recommendation on the reauthorization of the Water Resources Development Act. We urged the congress to pass the act along with encouraging regular communications with governors and developing strategies that aligned available Water Resources with infrastructure needs. Again in may we call on the congress to uphold an existing law that restores the 15 set aside and the cash that sets aside the governors to create jobs and spur Economic Growth to gross Family Income and to help get people back to work. That month also fought for the Senate Passage of the marketplace fairness act, which upholds the principles of federalism and when is the Playing Field between main street and east st. In june a, governors reiterated the call for the secretary defense and congress to protect the National Guard. We asked them to protect the guard from disproportionate and a damaging reductions to ensure the capacities and the qualities of the National Guard. I have to stop and tell you that in oklahoma, we certainly benefited from a Strong National guard during a very tough time for the state in may when we had the tornadoes and several other storms that swept through. And governor hickenlooper also saw this great value in the National Guard during the devastating floods that struck the state of colorado. We believe its important to have a Strong National guard for the governors. And moving on to august, at the summer meeting, we stressed the need for certainty, and a longterm solution to fund the aging infrastructure. In september, we returned to the budget debate warning the congress of the effect on the state of a federal shutdown. And we call on them to resolve the budget issues and the impact and to put the budget on a sustainable, longterm fiscal path. Despite all this, we have essentially the same to do list setting before the Congress States have been dealing with shortterm extensions and longerterm uncertainty. We are a quarter of the way for the fiscal year 2014, and just this week theres been it is not anticipated that washington may pass an omnibus bill to fund 2014. However, major reauthorization bills governing the key states and federal programs are stacking up. In my state of oklahoma and states across the country, the most liberal democrats are the most conservative republicans can agree that moving from one crisis to another without any longterm plan or vision is a recipe for trouble. Washingtons shortterm thinking and continued inaction are hurting the states economy is. They are free press and job growth and ultimately they are hurting American Families in every state. So, it has been led to the states to chart our own path and to pursue their own policies where the partisan gridlock has left washington unable to address many of the nations problems. For the governors, and action is not an option. Where the federal government will not act, the states are actually stepping up and standing in. As of the message for 2014 is clear, states are leaving and we encourage federal partners to work more closely with us and to take note and use the policy ideas coming from their state partners. And above all, please do not get in our way. Let the states work to solve partners and become a partner. States are also leading the charge forward and providing solutions to improve the nations future work force. We know that the best way for American Workers to find good paying jobs is to boost their educational attainment. Similarly in the best way to help american businesses is to improve the work force. States leading the way by improving education and using the educational system to build highly skilled work force for the coming decades. And its a critical ingredient in the recipe for highwage jobs and also to increase americas competitiveness and improve the standard of living for all of our families. Thats why as the chair i chose as my Initiative America works, education and training for tomorrows jobs to focus on the work force and the nation and our jobs making america more competitive. Its about making the significant improvements in the Work Force Training programs and to align them with of the needs of our businesses and the labor markets to benefit our citizens and also our state economies. Now heres why the status quo wont work for todays workers. For when youre navigating a pathway to prosperity, it is much more challenging than it was when our parents were growing up. We know that a High School Diploma is no longer a guarantee to a good job or middle class life. We know that the new minimum for economic success is neither a two year or four year degree or some type of relevant work force certificate. And without some kind of post secondary education, our children and working adults will find hard to achieve the American Dream and also to gain access to the middle class life. If we dont respond to this new reality, the nation will lose its Competitive Edge when it comes to a Global Economic climate. And just as troubling, we will fail to arm the next generation of americans both men and women and children with the tools they need to enter and remain in a middle class or to achieve better. Preparing the 21st Century Work Force to keep pace and stay competitive is an issue that not only calls for National Attention because for gubernatorial leadership. And my fellow governors are responding. Staying competitive as the nation starts with our schools, which is why governors are committed to providing a real class education for all of our students. We know the responsibility of educating the next generation has always been the response of devotee of the state and local governments. And for this reason they are focused on raising academic standards for all students to ensure their success in college or a career with a Career Training program. Our commitment to education is why we came together years ago to raise academic standards and to increase the classroom and to ensure the states but not only that, to compete with students around the world. The standards are called common core state standards. Students need to know to be college worker rear ready. Its to the individual states, to the districts and schools to evaluate the quality of the students education to me to these relevant standards. So im going to be clear, and corps is not the federal government program. It is written and implemented by states that choose to participate. Its also not a federal curriculum. Its not a curriculum at all. The local educators and School Districts will design the best lesson plans and choose appropriate textbooks and drive the classroom learning. The goal is to ensure that the children finish high school with a better Critical Thinking skills and the tools that the need to succeed in Higher Education or to enter into the workforce. In addition to pursuing Higher Standards and the governors along with other states and local elected officials are also calling on the concourse to fix the secondary education act better known as no child left behind. The original intent was good changes must be made to make it work. Today there are 41 states offering waivers and that is no way to run a program. While the world work for some things they will not work for all states. Moreover, the weavers remain a shortterm fix to the long term problem. Congress should pursue changes that emphasized the flexibility and local control for the states wishing to pursue innovative policies that meet their own unique needs. Only after making the fixes should the congress reauthorize. The governors realized that education is, excuse me, education doesnt stop at the schoolhouse door. And highly mobile and technologically driven society, the workers of all ages must continue to learn and hold in their skills and that is why as governors, we are working with Business Leaders and educators to ensure citizens have the skills they need and the knowledge required for the 21st century workforce. States are focused on a entrepreneur is to play the keen role in helping that process. The objective is Economic Growth and creating highwage jobs. Highwage jobs are concerned governors understand that manufacturing plays an important role. Jobs are generated not only in the factories but also in the research and development that support manufacturing. The and she a has worked with a demonstration projects with california, colorado, connecticut, massachusetts, new york and pennsylvania that have recently developed strategies emphasizing advanced manufacturing. Those in the other states are creating Publicprivate Partnerships with industries and Advisory Councils to guide the state policies related while working to connect manufacturers to research and Development Work force talent and supply chain support. In order to thrive both large and Small Businesses must be competitive in this global economy. Small and mediumsized businesses in the United States hold nearly 30 million employee about half of the private sector work force and also the payrolls. When you look at the business only 10 export their goods. The governors are promoting growth by leading in the export of goods and services and attracting international investments. And in todays world, and our economies are global efforts to support growth and identify opportunities for businesses must be global to the dance the move on to the federal side, the Congress Needs to reauthorize the Work Force Investment act and provide states with flexibility that we need to be able to offer the most relevant Work Force Training program to the citizens. There are differences between the house and the senate and their approaches, but the governors do agree that in streamlining the funding and restoring the governors 15 set aside to the state work force to help us create the programs, governors access to flexible federal funds to innovate and produce results is exactly the type of flexible federalism weve been talking about, and that is needed for helping state federal partnerships. But the Work Force Investment act is not the only way that congress can help put people back to work. Reauthorization of the state trade and export Promotion Grants Program beyond 2014 will ensure continued growth in the nations Global Competitiveness and also help us maintain the programs operations and outplays coming and most importantly, create jobs. The nation is also in the midst of an Energy Revolution that generates revenue and also creates jobs. Its moving the country from scarcity to abundance, from dependency to selfsufficiency and Energy Policy is another area where the governors have been leading the charge despite the absence of a comprehensive National Energy plan and for some of us that is just fine because we are moving ahead. Governors have crafted their own Energy Plants. Comprehensive Energy Plants that are innovative, that are helping our state support Homegrown Energy production and meet our Energy Efficiency needs. These efforts are helping advance economic development, were cost and improve reliability and resiliency. In the process they are also creating american jobs and also generating state revenue. While the state efforts can go along way, federal policies must complement the state efforts to improve the nations Energy Security and support the diverse range of Domestic Energy resources. They are taking the lead by setting of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy goals for their own operations. In my home state of oklahoma, we have called for a 20 Cost Reduction for the year 2020 and you will find similar bipartisan programs throughout the nation in states around the country like new york, alabama, iowa, california and colorado. An example of the governors and states leading way in the innovative policy is the multistate memorandum of understanding in which my vice chairman, governor John Hickenlooper of colorado and i have initiated to set the stage for the states to affordably convert their states systems in the bills. There are now 23 states using their combined power to save taxpayers money to also encourage a clean source of energy to encourage the development of technology and infrastructure enhancements and frankly to take advantage of an abundant lowcost Natural Gas Resources being developed by dozens of states. In fact Shale Gas Development is an area where states are leading and promoting responsible exploration of practices that address the potential 15 not all concerns and other impacts, but also while supporting jobs and Energy Independence for the nation. This fall, governor hickenlooper and i lead a bipartisan forum on the energy and colorado and we also brought together other officials from 20 different states the new approaches to responsible development. And governor, i just want to thank you for hosting that Gas Development forum this fall and for your work on behalf of the National Governors association. Its been a great pleasure to work with you and now i would like to invite up to the podium the vice chair of the National Governors association, governor John Hickenlooper of colorado. [applause] i can use governor fallins glasses if i need them. [laughter] thank you for the leadership and friendship. Its great to be your neighbor and Work Together to try to solve the problems of the states side by side. Republicans and democrats Work Together as governors as i dont think they do in any other part of the National Life to be we saw this firsthand when we had our floods and the first three states, one of the first three that offer to help us set up a National Guard support where oklahoma, wyoming and utah were all republican governors. The governors dont really worry about the party trying to get things done. Also, thank you for helping organize the recent energy forum in colorado and joining us there. As the governor fallin noted, the governors are not the center of the energy boom and are actively pursuing ways to manage responsible development. In colorado where we have increased our production of natural gas by 30 since 2005, we have the opportunity and the risk associated with these drilling technologies. For example, we put strong Disclosure Rules and the states to act transparency by the mix of ingredients and the use of hydraulic fracturing, and proved the budget process and require a groundwater testing both preand post in drilling. Most recently we have proposed rules in concert with the community and industry to reduce the release of the organic compounds and methane during the production transport of natural gas using advanced technologies to detect and address the leaks. Once in place, these are going to help address concerns with local, about the local quality and help stem Greenhouse Gas initiatives and foster or a better sense of trust between the industry and the public. Across the nation governors are leading the effort to make full use of Energy Resources of natural gas, oil, wind, coal, nuclear, solar, and to reduce as the governor said, the amount of energy that we use. Our efforts to develop the shale gas responsibly along with those that promote the full array of Domestic Energy resources and Energy Efficiency are strengthening the Nations Energy independence. Several recent predictions like putting those by the National Energy administration have predicted the United States will have the potential to become the net energy sufficient by the year 2035. Thats the first time in many years and it is well for both energy and overall Economic Growth. Another way governors are the forefront of maintaining and protecting the army National Guard. As the commanders in chief of the National Guard, it is an honor and really a privilege to stand with our men and women and to sink them for their extraordinary efforts both abroad and at home. The guard was front and center and last fall alongside our other First Responders and National Guard helped rescue trapped families and open roads and reach communities cut off by the rising waters hot. The National Guard and utah came in with a team of engineers and working 12 hour shifts to make sure that we got every one of our broken roads open before december 31st. The guard is ready, capable and experienced fighting force, but they are also essentials to the states and the communities here at home. For this reason, we continue to act cahal on the National Guard as troops come home from abroad, we call on the concourse and administration to recognize the value of maintaining an active and ready National Guard. Reductions in personnel and equipment are inevitable as we transition from the war into peace, but they should not adversely affect the states or come at the expense of the lost capabilities. Instead, we should be leveraging the experience and costeffective mix of the National Guard and for this reason, we would like to work with our partners to ensure that the guard remains ready for both of their state and their federal missions. The next battlefront is likely not a field or a town, but a Computer Network that supports our critical infrastructure. As the nation develops the cyberattack, the guard should be in notified of efforts to protect that works and to be a will to respond to the incidents. While the federal government seeks to clarify how it will work with the private sector in the states to better secure the cyberspace, states are already moving forward to develop and to implement new sites are policies to protect their economies and to ensure Public Safety. Progress on this front we launched a Research Center for the state cybersecurity led by the governor omalley of maryland and Governor Rick Snyder of michigan. They met to share best practices and to devise ways governors can guide their efforts and make sure that we measure progress. By far we released a call to action for governors for cybersecurity which gives recognition to consider the development and implement a state Cybersecurity Strategy and to allocate appropriate resources. Now we are working to help states implement strategies and also advance cybersecurity efforts in the Energy Sector while robust government examining how to leverage the support of the centers and in keeping with the team of the governors initiative, advancing education and work force strategies will help meet the growing need of a welltrained cybersecurity experts. Finally come for the veterans, governors, welcome all of them home. At the state level, the governors are leading efforts to improve outreach to veterans and their families and a variety of ways. It calls for the federal departments to break down the silos and have better access to benefits and to access the services that they have earned defending the country. The federal government must work closely with the states left out by the federal programs and to better target the services to the at risk like a wounded warriors. Often one of the Biggest Challenges facing the veterans is finding meaningful employment. Recognizing how critical this is to the transition for the military service to the civilian life, governors are particularly focused on getting our veterans back to work. In partnership in the u. S. Department of Labor Committee in g8 is working with the Member States to identify the best practices and to facilitate the transfer of the military skill sets to the civilian work force. If this project will help the veterans leverage their military training to gain the necessary stability credentials to perform jobs and industries such as transportation or health care the goal in colorado was to help to the to have every returning that employed by the end of this year taking care of the men and women that served their country remains paramount for the governors. The list of priorities can be complete without mentioning of health care, like education and like jobs, health care remains one of the core issues facing the state. The politics of health care has become divisive, but our goal of improving the systems and helping the states to become healthier is not. For the National Governors association, health care is not just about the Affordable Care act. As governors, we should focus on the issue that unites us, or the issues that unite us not those that define us. Highvalue health care that is efficient and costeffective should be our common goal. In 2013 cut the hosted more than 52 separate health care meetings with the various state officials and the input leadership training, yearlong policy academies and learning networks and the state, Technical Assistance and webinar. And in october, they joined with the institute of medicine to hold the several and state health care retreats designed to help hold of different ways to transform their health systems. The first was wisconsin with Governor Scott walker, state representatives, private sector leaders and national. We hope to do several more of these across the country. In fact, today we are holding a National Convening of state leaders interested in transforming health systems. The focus of this meeting is to share state level innovation and ideas across state lines as we work collectively to reduce cost and at the same time improve quality of health care in the states. We are also leading the way in the growing epidemic of Prescription Drug abuse. I had the pleasure of cochairing along with the governor for alabama the initiative to help the states fight these growing problems. To that initiative, states are implementing strategies that will help lower the number of death and the emergency room visits from Prescription Drug overdoses while still giving access to necessary medication. Finally, governors came together to identify and share best practices as a part of a Health Care System and a devotee Task Force Led by governor john of four again and the governor of tennessee. The task force is developing recommendations to strengthen the state federal partnership and improving the quality of health care while at the same time again reducing costs. Findings of the task force will be developed by all governors in the february meeting in washington. The governors are also taking a variety of different leads on this issue and last week the governor of vermont dedicated his entire address to the issue of drug abuse including Prescription Drugs and how that leads to more serious concerns of heroin addiction and if you havent read the state of the state address i would advise you to do so. Its a remarkable address. In addition to health care, another issue is the nations infrastructure that provides the structure that connects us to one another. When we talk that infrastructure, we generally think about highways, transit systems and bridges that connect people and places, but infrastructure is more than surface transportation alone. Includes the utility systems that connect us to power and water, schools, public buildings that connect us to opportunity and participation. States emerged from the downturn its critical that we work with our federal partners to rebuild and invest in rhodes, bridges, airports, waterways and energy infrastructure. We have a funding gap estimated to be as high as 1. 6 trillion by 2020 factoring and the 2. 6 trillion projected to keep the infrastructure system safe and reliable the current revenue. For Service Transportation alone, the federal Highway Trust Fund faces another perilous fiscal clef leader this year. Projected receipts and putting general Fund Transfers will be less than the outlays. Infrastructure is about future. Economic prosperity and innovation rely on a robust and sustainable infrastructure at their foundation. At the state level, governors are meeting the way by creating new approaches to fixing, funding and financing infrastructure to help meet the needs of the 21st century. Those efforts and put canceling managing cost, identifying opportunities for the new revenue sources, using advanced technology to improve performance and lower the lifecycle expenditures and using Publicprivate Partnerships to speed up the project delivery and lower the overall cost. Several governors and putting those from illinois, maryland, North Carolina and colorado are participating in a new effort to help the states examine how they can employ innovative product delivery and financing strategies to deliver infrastructure. We have seen success already with that approach in colorado. We have a new commuter of rail line expansion in pursuing another Publicprivate Partnership to improve a major role between denver and boulder. Beyond that we are looking at how other types including public buildings, water and wastewater facilities house allows schools can benefit from the same Public Private model. Last, governors have long called for legislation that ensures longterm certainty and stability so that states and communities can invest the long term surface transportation projects only with the consistent and reliable federal partner. Yesterday, governor fallin testified before the committee about the need for a long term reauthorization of these critical programs. Her message was uncertainty over infrastructure at the National Level forces the states to act to fill up the blade to the governors agreed this deduction is not an invitation for the federal disengagement or devolution. Infrastructure requires an intergovernmental partnership. Again, infrastructure is about more than just rhodes. Congress is working hard to reauthorize the Water Resources Development Act and to keep the pieces of legislation that will help accelerate the action to invest in the Water Infrastructure systems. And they call on the congress to complete the conference and send a bill signature to the president. A place where the strong federal state partnerships are even more crucial is in the state budgets. Governors are both dismayed in the recent budget deal last month and the deal brought a glimmer of hope that washington like the states to address the fiscal problems facing the country. Today was supposed to be another critical date the federal government would again close its doors and the congress and the president couldnt agree. The state and federal government are inextricably linked. More than 26 of most of the state budgets come from the federal government. The politics of the fiscal responsibility can no longer be centered around the crisis and deadlines and we applaud the budget but we now have to build on that success. It raises important issues for the country which services the government should provide, and what level, how we should pay for them and which reforms are necessary for the modern economy. The area of tax reform governors recognize the need to simplify and improve the federal tax code. Last year we created a Tax Reform Task force to make recommendations on those areas where the federal tax code intercept the state policy. Too strong recommendations and urged on that group. One maintained the exclusion from the income for the interest earned on Municipal Bonds. For more than a century, the Municipal Bond was used to build the country. Roads, schools, hospitals and airports have all been built thanks to the unique status of the Municipal Bonds. Federal law and regulations should not increase the issuance cost to states directly or indirectly or diminish the market demand for the bond issued by state and local government. And infrastructure is a priority for the nation and it has to be a priority. The taxexempt status of the municipalbond must be preserved. Likewise, the duck deductibility of the federal income tax is a part of the federal tax code since its inception more than 100 years ago. The eliminating federal deductibility would reverse the historical separation of the federal, state and local authority and more importantly it would be forcing the double taxation on the taxpayers. One thing the congress can and must do is partner with states to pass the market pace fairness act. This Holiday Season internet records their stay more than 500 billion for the online goods and while they support the communities and the victory the streets and collect local salestax, the internet competitors do not. Marketplace fairness is just common sense. Legislation pulled the principles and it is fair, simple and good for business. Its not like the internet still needs a lift up. It helps the states and encourages competition and preserved mean street jobs and closing this unfair loophole is an issue which the congress can and should come together. The Senate Overwhelmingly passed legislation this year and now we hope it is the house turn. As you can tell we have a lot to do and governors are in a bidding at the state level and we continue to push our partners to Craft Solutions that support innovation in the federal level as well. We dont want to return a year from now with the same to do list. We want to move the nation for word and by putting people back to work and supporting growth by educating our children and by improving our security. Thank you for being here in this wonderful place. Governor fallin, thank you so much for being such a remarkable leader not just for oklahoma but for all of us governors. Thank you. [applause] senate thank you very much, governor hickenlooper. We appreciate your comments and we would be happy to take a couple of questions from the press. If you could identify who you are what we would appreciate it. Can you tell me if you would want Chris Christi campaigning for you . [laughter] its unfortunate what has happened in new jersey, and i think the facts are still undetermined as far as the details. No governor wishes that upon any governor to have to go through that type of circumstance and people have to wait and see what the details are. But in the meantime, any time Public Policy hurts the public itself, which it appears that it did come in fact it did do that, then thats not right. We dont know the details as it relates to the governor. Hes been a strong leader. Use of his leadership during Hurricane Sandy when he helped the state get back on its feet and he is a man that speaks his mind again we will have to wait and see can you tell us a little bit about the whole state exchanges and how its working in both of your states and some of the problems that are happening across the country with the different states and exchanges . De governor hickenlooper stated in his comments all governors want to help. We are all concerned about medicaid costs and of Rising Health care costs. We all want to make sure not only individuals, but they have access to quality care and we have seen as the rollout in the Affordable Health care act has not been smoothed and that is before republican and democratic governors alike and certainly each governor has chosen their own path whether it relates to forming their own state exchange or moving into a federal exchange of. All the Health Care System is administered and in my state of oklahoma i do choose not to expand the federal health care or federal medicaid system because im concerned about the cost and i am concerned about the comco is keeping its promises, and i also did not choose to form my own state exchange and in the state of oklahoma and our citizens are voting overwhelmingly not to support the Affordable Health care act in the state. In general, they respect the other governors and a different budget situations and different opinions about different policies that we do have agreement on a moving to lower the medicaid cost and to improve the health care cost, improving the health of our citizens. It has obviously been difficult. The exchange is much better than the rollout was smoother than the national rollout. We are now up to over 150,000 people that signed up between the people who didnt have expanded medicaid and insurance for other reasons. I think one thing that gets lost in this discussion too frequently, five years ago before obamacare was even foley expressed, 90 of the doctors were america and used paper not just for prescriptions that medical records. 80 of the hospitals used paper. We forget that. A big part of the Affordable Care act was the significant federal expenditures to incentivize and really push modernization of how we do medicine. And i think that is coming out of the recession, but we have come out of other recessions before. If you go back the last 50 years, and again, the cost of health care for the country are still rising. But they are over the last three years of rising at a slower rate than they have the last 50 years so it is a disruptive and difficult time and change is hard, but each governor, republican and democrat, we share that goal improving quality. Nothing is going to see the scene. If youre not improving the quality is going to get worse but at the same time trying to find out how to lowercost. If youre expanding the number of people, the opportunity to get health care, this is the perfect time to begin using scale and technology to lower the cost, to figure out better ways and systems of doing it. And i think we both agree that states are the right place where that laboratory of innovation, laboratory of democracy really is at stake. And i dont know a single governor right now that isnt spending a great deal of time finding out how can we do this better . [inaudible] no, obviously we want more. I cant remember come summer close to 800,000 people and injured so we have a long way to go. And are we happy or content with that . No, we are not. We need more. Quite candidly, we do not have as many people signing up ought we saw in massachusetts it took a couple of years. There is a process by which young people kind of become aware of this and how we communicate with them but we are certainly not satisfied. And as governor hickenlooper mentioned a few moments ago, i had the opportunity yesterday to go in front of the Transportation Infrastructure Committee to testify on behalf of the governors, im a former member of the committee, to talk about the importance of the reauthorization of the surface transportation bill and how our states need certainty when it comes to funding our nations infrastructure. Whatever form infrastructure that might be. We did talk to the president about infrastructure in our nation. We talked to the president about job creation, about education, about workforce needs. Those were some of the key issues that we visit with him about. We also expressed as governors we believe as weve outlined in our talks to you about various issues, that there are Solutions Coming from the states that we believe can be models for the rest of the nation. That we do believe there needs to be more collaboration, more cooperation between the states and the federal government. And that is why you see the National Governors association both last year and this your doing Something Different that we had never done. That is having a state of the states address to the National Media and to some of our key groups here in washington, d. C. To talk about some the challenges that our states face, the challenges we need washington to address and, frankly, our frustration at times that washington does not address those things. And just saying we need a seat at the table to discuss these ideas, to be able to help Bring Solutions forward. We dont have the luxury of inaction by congress does many times on many key pieces of legislation and Serious Problems facing our nation. We have to act. We have to balance our budget. We have to work on problems and find those solutions. We believe its important for governors to sit down not only with the president , Vice President , but also the congress and the senate, u. S. House and u. S. Senate, to talk about what were doing in our state. Governor hickenlooper and i gave several examples. One is the states came together with the nga to hold 52 different meetings related to health care costs, Health Care Systems, lowering medicaid cost, making our systems work, better quality of care. And our states, weve also talked as he mentioned about Substance Abuse in our nation, some of the issues that the governors have taken. Governor hickenlooper and i have worked with other states talking about Energy Policy. And that we believe america has great resources so we can have Energy Independence and more Economic Security for our nation. So we led an effort and encouraging our federal governors to look at vehicles to save taxpayer money and utilize a Natural Resource abundant in our nation. I think its safe to say the president committed himself to support every priority of the nga. No, im just kidding. [laughter] i do think its fair to say that both president and Vice President , we were there for over an hour, but they listened hard and asked a lot of questions about our point. Governor beebe of arkansas and and governor herbert of utah both talked about some of the wafers around Health Care Policy and why did they have to be so hard, long, that was governor herberts question. Governor beebe came back and sit in our case it wasnt. In both cases, or many cases whether theyre talking about waivers for health care or trying to streamline process for infrastructure projects. The president was at the point thing ill give you my cell phone number. If the federal bureaucracy is blocking you governors from getting stuff done, you let us know and we will get on it. I think we all heard that, with gratitude. You know, both Vice President biden and president obama were clear about lets get past divisive stuff and lets try to get things done. I think they recognize as governors, we are in a unique relationship with each other. Governor fallin and i went a few months ago to detroit to talk to the Senior Executives at general motors, chrysler, ford, honda. Again and again a couple of them said, governor fallin can argue or republican . Governor hickenlooper, arent you a democrat . What are you guys doing here . We are trying to move our states or. Were trying to get you to reduce vehicles that burns compressed natural gas that makes clean air and is cheaper. They said thats the case, now we have gm is putting right off the Assembly Line we will be able to burn compressed natural gas. Ive got to get my oklahoma guy here, you know . Chris with the oklahoman. Governor hickenlooper, you mentioned in your remarks the state of the state address by the vermont governor about Prescription Drug abuse. Obviously, i think you know some people make the same argument about marijuana being a gateway drug. I was wondering how you make a distinction. Governor fallin, i was wondering if youif you would ever see any advantage in the state legalizing marijuana . [laughter] spent so first, i thought i thought i thought governor shulman scourge to redirect almost entirely his speech to this epidemic, really a crisis of drug addiction, and a lot of people were very concerned when we start using vicodin and prescribing opiates asked in relief, that there could be significant unintended consequences. And what he points out with very stark language is that we are seeing dramatic increases in people going from these Prescription Drugs and then going right into heroin. And the number of young people, the lives, the accidental deaths, suicides and all these are jumping dramatically and its not just in vermont. We see maybe two not the same extent but in colorado as governor bentley and i worked on the Prescription Drug abuse task force, we see it all over the United States. The point is very, very relevant everything something we are all, every governor is looking at. In terms of marijuana, i oppose. Of the every elected official opposed it. Not that we dont recognize that the war on drugs was an abject field. It did not do what it was intended to do and had many, many negative consequences. And even though we oppose legalization of marijuana, it is not in our state constitution. I think our Legislature Takes it that this is the will of the people. This is going to be one of the great social experiments of this century. We take being first with a great deal of a serious sense of responsibility and obligation that we are going to regulate the living daylights out of it. We are. I spent 15 years in the Restaurant Business and we build restaurants that grew their own. No, brewpubs. I can guarantee the federal government, when youre making alcohol, they are relentless in how they inspect your premises, how they tax you. If your restaurant sells liquor to a minor, generally they will suspend your license for a couple days, your first offense. Second or third offense you will lose your business, your license completely. We will be no less relentless with marijuana, and we passed last year a five if youre driving while high, we will lock you up. So our focus is to make sure we keep corruption out of the process, we guarantee it doesnt get the kids. Theres a number of top scientists now are concerned the highest tiki content has the potential with people whose minds are growing, kids under lets say kids under the age of 25 that multiple, within a week, several exposures to this high thc in marijuana has the potential to diminish longterm memory permanently. Kids dont understand it. They think because its legalized that theres no real danger. Thats not true. So were going to spend, again we passed a serious tax increase on marijuana. It will be taxed at 25 plus local sales tax in colorado. Were going to use that money to create a Regulatory Framework that is going to usher we dont have corruption, that we protect minors from and we dont have people driving i or other places where we put the public at risk. We didnt choose to support it, but now its you we will take it very seriously. And as long as im governor in a home, i will do everything i can to prevent the legalization of marijuana. We have time for one last question. As it becomes increasingly clear that tax vote is not likely happen of the federal level at least in the nearterm, what can we be doing enemy time to short Revenue Streams . How much do you think interstate tax competition will play a role in the year Going Forward . It doesnt look like well see tax reform in congress this year, but you do see a lot of tax reform being done among the various states. And, of course, it varies state by state, governor by governor, party by party. And thats all fine. States are very competitive and governors are very competitive. My state of oklahoma, and im just speaking for myself, ive been working on lowering our tax rate in the state of oklahoma. Prioritizing our spending needs on important, Different Services in our state like education, health care corrections, transportation, things that i think our Core Services and our state, balancing our budget, control are spinning. Also great efficiency in state government. We combined 75 Different Agency boards of commission to save money so we could put that money back towards tax cuts or prioritizing our different government services. You will find in each state they are doing their own thing. We also compete when they go out to attract jobs or talk to other companies about why they should move to a certain state, whatever state it might be, we sell those different features in our state that we lower taxes, we have reformed pensions, that weve been working on increasing our academic rigor in our classroom. And it was great infrastructure, whatever the issue might be. States are very competitive. Governors are competitive and i believe tax rates do matter in keeping taxes low and businesses while providing those essential services. As a governor of oklahoma is important to me. And its a healthy competition certainly, and just its always brag on, if you look at all the taxes but together, property, sales and income taxes, oklahoma, texas and colorado i think are the three lowest. We talk about all the time we were talking its not just to attract companies. States talk about that a lot but the real competition is i think were trying each day destroyed great and violent is going to attract entrepreneurs. The next generation of job creators because thats what drives your economy. Its not just taxes. I agree completely. One of our toughest competitors, the governor of utah, we can beat day in and day out with utah. They have a higher income tax than this but if other taxes that are lower. We are roughly the same in taxes and we are often competing for the same type of company, the same demographic. Actually compete fairly aggressively with oklahoma as well. Those competitions we try to keep it above board, friend and respectful. There are a few exceptions on this. [laughter] but not in the room. Not in the room and certainly not among most other states that we must directly compete with. And i think that focus, you know, when you get an advantage to try to talk about it. Even though we want have the lowest taxes we want to the best Public School system because thats what young entrepreneur thing people care about. That will greet the next generation of workforce. Even though you with the lowest taxes you want to make sure Health Care System works better than the other guys and that you can demonstrate i say this for three years. We try to make colorado, we have an unfair advantage because all these young people want to go climb mountains. The last three years weve had more 2534yearolds moved to colorado edges that any state in the country. We are the thinnest state. But we are not the healthiest state. We have Prescription Drug abuse is, low birth weight, infants, and the percentage of vaccinations with our kids. So by most objective measures were not quite, not in the healthiest it but we are working to get there. Thats what makes i think a better country is oakland is competing with colorado to say who is going to be healthiest . If we are competing with each other to have the best Public Education system, and we have again using the common core, objective measures would we can say look how well we are doing or how much we are failing, we can help ourselves accountable. Pinhole standard of performance in the country rises. Thank you. Thank you for your time today. [applause] live now to the u. S. Capital. The senate is about to come in for a brief pro forma session. Now live to the senate floor. The presiding officer the senate will come to order. The clerk will read a communication to the senate. The clerk washington, d. C. , january 17, 2014. To the senate under the provisions of rule 1, paragraph 3, of the standing rules of the senate, i hereby appoint the honorable mark r. Warner, a senator from the commonwealth of virginia, to perform the duties of the chair. Signed patrick j. Leahy, president pro tempore. The presiding officer under the previous order, the Senate Stands adjourned until 10 30 a. M. On tuesday, january 21, 2014. January 21, 2014. Wrapping up todays brief pro forma session, congress is not in next week for the Martin Luther king recess. They are back monday january 27. When they resume consideration of the Flood Insurance bill. Live coverage when members return here on cspan2. Happening life right now on cspan, president obama delivering remarks at the Justice Department changes to government surveillance program. The president just getting underway. Following the president s remarks we will take your phone calls and get reaction on facebook and twitter. All that happening on cspan. Right here on cspan2 we will be live at noon eastern, for discussion hosted by the Congressional Internet Caucus Advisory Committee looking at the future of the internet. This after court ruling by the d. C. Circuit court of appeals, the ruling saying the fcc had improperly tried to regulate Broadband Internet providers. Thereby notify the agencys socalled Net Neutrality will. That discussion live at noon eastern here on cspan2. Net neutrality was the focus of our conversation on washington journal with two former members of the fcc. We will bring as much of thewhg remarks as we can before going live to capitol hill at noon. C. Host this week a federal Appeals Court struck down the federal Communications Commissions open internet rulesl i. E. Net neutrality rule. Roles. For the next hour or so we are going to talk about those with two former commissioners of the fcc who served on the commission during the time the open internet rules were established. Robert mcdowell is a republican and was the senior republican on the commission for quite a while. And Michael Copps, a democrat, in the majority during that time. Also served as acting chair of the commission for a while. , what exactlyopps is Net Neutrality . What are we talking about here . Guest i think Net Neutrality is the effort to keep the internet free and open. Terms,ted into practical it means consumers have a right to access the lawful content of their choice, to attach whatever devices they want to attach to run applications that they want to run and have the benefits of transparency, openness, and nondiscrimination. To makeally an effort sure that consumers rather than companies are in charge of their internet experience. Host when we talk about Net Neutrality in this view, if somebody is downloading a netflix movie or sending an email, they get equal treatment . Guest thats right here at host do you support what the Appeals Court did . Guest no, i dont support what the Appeals Court did nor do i support what the fcc did on the way to the Appeals Court. Court credit, the appeals did emphasize that the fcc has authority to conduct some oversight, to keep the internet open. The socalled Net Neutrality. Which, incidentally, i think is a god awful term because it is such an anodyne and nonmobilizing thing. I would rather talk about the open internet or internet freedom, because that is really what we are talking about here. And a lot of the discussion we will have today will probably get in the weeds. But people need to understand what is at stake here, what we are talking about. The future of the internet. And that is the place where increasingly our civic dialogue takes place. That is increasingly where television and radio and news are going. And that is central to our democracy. That is central to our ability to conduct civil dialogue, giving people the news and information, openness without gatekeeping and all of that, so they can make Intelligent Decisions for the future of the country. Goodness knows weve got so many problems in the country. I am one of those people who happens to believe that journalism is hemorrhaging. We dont have the type of Investigative Journalism we used to have. And the open internet is very much a part of whether we will have that in the future or not. Host you said you did not like what the fcc did on the way that you supported at the time. Guest i voted for it because it was that or nothing. But basically you get into the weeds are really quick here. But what the federal communications decided several years ago, the beginning of 2002 and then in 2004 was broadband was not really a Telecommunications Service him it was an Information Service. , you Information Service cannot conduct oversight or regulate it to the degree you can if it is a communication Telecommunications Service. Things like Consumer Protections and privacy and Public Safety and things like that. But the fcc said, no, its not that, it is an Information Service over here. What the court said was, if you are going to call it Information Service then you have to regulate it like Information Service, or in this case, not regulate it at all. But if you go back and classify it as a Telecommunications Service, then you are probably on sound ground. It would be contentious but it would not the all that complex. You would have the commission go back and say, we kind of made a 2004. E back in 2002 and of course, this stuff is telecommunications. At telephone call is a telephone call, whether a land line service or an internet call. Functionally it is the same sort of thing. Why wouldnt a consumer be callled on that internet to the same kind of protections that advocates fought for or consumers for years and years west among all these things we are talking about . Mcdowell,issioner same question. How would you define Net Neutrality . What did you do you think about the court did . The folks me say for watching, Michael Copps and i come from different philosophical approaches on many issues but we are the best of friends and we had a terrific colleagues inas the fcc. This is a rarity in washington. Sometimes we would arrive at the same destination but through different paths completely. And there are things that this divide is. It is not republican versus democrat and not necessarily Net Neutrality, but he is unc chapel ill and i went to duke so am wearing my duke tie and cufflinks just to throw him off his game. I have to resort to such tactics. Can i emphasize what he said . When i was acting chairman we went through the dtv transition, a consultative thing, and i cannot not have had a more cooperative attitude traveling to dance around the country explaining to folks. Of looking at how this plays runs, and it turns out while there are less optical differences and differences of opinion in these issues, over 90 of what the place does is by consensus and it is not divided by politics of the left or right. It is a license or spectrum dispute or Something Like that. But when we were talking about Net Neutrality this was a partisan issue. Guest thank you, sir. Appreciate that. Guest Net Neutrality is what i called for years a workshop term , what different people see into it. The concept of open and freedom enhancing internet i think is important to everybody. We all agree on that. Lets look at the internet before december 21, 2010, the date of the Net Neutrality vote. It was open and freedom enhancing then. You had start up companies. Google was a start up once upon a time. Facebook was a start up, so was twitter and a lot of other companies. They blossomed beautifully. The internet has been the fastest penetrating technology in the history of mankind. All across the globe. And i think it is precisely because that space was unfettered. And keeping it deregulated and not regulating it like a monopoly phone company, which we will call titleii for folks folks, the for shorthand. That was bipartisan consensus. Whatoing back actually to we call computer inquiries, starting in 1970 at the fcc, and again, another big bill big order in 1980 and another in 1988. During the clinton administration, then the chairman of the fcc, bill keard, im a big fan, talking about how we should not regulate the internet or broadband as a phone service. Reasons. Iety of it just operates differently. If you talk to an engineer, packet switching operates differently that is the internet from analog circuit switch voice. There are a lot of differences. So we treated computertwocomputer medications differently for a variety of good Public Policy reasons. Consumers have been a net beneficiary. Guest commissioner mcdowell, what you think of the decision host commissioner mcdowell, what do you think of the decision by the Appeals Court, to clinton employee appointees and a reagan appointee . Guest commissioner baker at the time and i wrote a very long , and the dissents scaredited our dissents i was very happy with the bulk of what it said. That the commission exceeded its Statutory Authority and that Congress Never gave the fcc the authority to do what it tried to do. I note that it did leave in the fccs roll on transparency so internet Service Providers still have to be transparent and disclose to the public what their practices will be. This has been underrated in the Mainstream Press. It is not really been picked up. The significance of that is big. The other thing that is big is while the court reinforced the fence around the fccs jurisdiction, or wall off the jurisdiction saying the fcc cannot legislate and only congress can legislate, there is a hole in the fence under what is called section 706, the cornerstone of the fccs argument that december 21, 2010. As they looked at the section to give it authority. The court says there is authority to do something section 706, at hole in the fence in the jurisdiction. We dont know how big the whole lives. This is a prelude to a sequel, to be continued. Then the court went on to say it cant look like any regulation any regulation, not a fcc cannot look like the oldstyle phone regulation. It cant look like that. The judge, who also fashioned a case also known as of data roaming case about 18 months ago or so i think was looking for a looser net revelatory structure. That is my cute theory of the case. Whether or not a new panel of the d c circuit will uphold that, you have a panel of judge kavanaugh or williams or other in the majority i dont think they will agree that the commercial arrangement of the loosely knit i dont think they would agree that it will hold up in court. Host what is going to be the effect . What is going to be the us that on the consumer of this decision . Guest absolutely nothing. Weremmediate press results that consumer costs were going to go up. Actually, i think the opposite will happen. If there are web destination for applications that consume content, there is now the freedom to have those companies subsidize consumer bandwidth consumption. I would use my 14yearold son griffin as an example. He uses his mobile device to look at espn a lot. We will try to get him to look at cspan more often. Anyway, that consumes a lot of our data plan. Withpn has an arrangement the isp, the wireless company, in this case and by the way, the commission exempted wireless from the neutrality rule his grades rates may be able to stay low. It punishr is doesnt or disincentivize startups . The answer is, no. There is a whole panoply of laws already on the books. Antitrust laws, Consumer Protection laws, common law, interference of contract, the federal trade commission, the u. S. Apartment of justice antitrust division, state attorneys general, consumer advocates, a whole host of state and federal law where the government can come down on Internet Service to writers like a hammer if consumer harm starts to arise due to deals being cut that produce consumer harm. Consumers are safe. Maybe next year their rates are not going to go what. In fact, they may have a more robust experience. Lets wait and see how the marketplace develops before we as a government try to guess. Host Michael Copps . Guest i think the cost to consumers will be high cost and potentially horrendous if this decision is left unaddressed. I look at what is happening here really as a slow, sometimes not so slow cable ovation cableization of the internet. If those watching the show are happy with the cable providers and dont mind all of the fight to the cable and content get into onto whether they will carry a Football Game or the nfl has to pay more for the game or your favorite dramatic series, fine, dont be worried about this debate we are talking about right now. But if you want to consign this open internet technology, perhaps the most innovating will in history to the gatekeeper control and potential discrimination with the provider can favorite on products or favor those who can pay them the most fees, then you ought to really be concerned about this. This is not what broadband was supposed to be. It has the potential to be the most opportunity creating technology than the printing press. You see it go the way of cable or the way of any other Communications System radio, tv, or cable that we have had, i think would be a tragedy of almost historical dimensions. On theur discussion is open internet rules that the fcc developed in 2010 and the federal Appeals Court denied this past week. 202 is the area code guests are two former members of the federal Communications Commission and you can begin dialing in. We will begin taking the calls in just a minute. You mention what could occur, what the fcc commission could do. The new fcc chairman tom wheeler book about what the fcc may do, yesterday. [video clip] the court invited the commission to act. And i intended to accept that invitation. Using our authority, we will readdress the concept in the open internet order, as the court invited, to encourage growth in innovation and enforce against abuse. Weve noted with great interest the expressions from many internet Service Providers to the effect that they will continue to honor the open internet orders concepts, even though they may have been remanded to the commission. Thats the right and responsible thing to do, and we take them up on their commitment. At the same time, we except the courts invitation to revisit the structure of the rules that it vacated. Host Robert Mcdowell, what is your reaction transferred i think tom wheeler is the type of leader who is going to do what he says is going to be. Ive known tom a long time. So hes saying theres that whole innocent around the fcc, he will look for other options. And whether thats under the Legal Authority the court has granted under section seven of six, still murky without authority is, i think he will explore that and all of his options. It could be an appeal for full court of appeals, and appeal to the Supreme Court, it could be an attempt to try to reclassify broadband under title ii. I think that would be a huge mistake for the economy. But he could do that. Theres a docket sitting there since may of 2010. So he is a number of options in front of him. By the way, the transparency options, let me talk about that very quickly which that was left standing. And Internet Service provider needs to as a matter of law disclosed to the public come this close to the world what its plans are. If its plans are to act in an anticompetitive way, then it has to say so. If it asked in an anticompetitive way and hasnt said so beforehand, in the fcc can come down like a hammer on that Internet Service provider. In the meantime i would hope chairman wheeler would meet with the leadership of the federal trade commission, state attorneys general, consumer advocates at the state and federal level, as well as maybe even trial lawyers to lay out all of their weapons whether statutory or common law, put them on a table, meet with internet Service Providers and say, we have all of these weapons at our disposal. If you start harming consumers we will come after you. That is, has been and will be acting as a huge deterrent. Host commissioner copps use of the term stabilization of broadband. Beware cable is asian of the internet is the title of the column. In it he talks about the new Business Models that could develop. I want to get your view on whether these would be good, bad, different tune, just what. The regular details are complex but both critics and proponents agree that the new rules could alter the internet basic business model. Guest right. These are actually old arguments. I disagree respectfully. First of all, the first screen for consumers, increasingly is the mobile screen. I look at my three kids, 14, 12 and six, my study group, focus group, and the first screen is the mobile screen. More often than not that is linked via unlicensed spectrum which ive been a proponent of since i was on the commission. That mixes up the competitive equation quite a bit. Theres a lot of competition. If a Cable Company literally thats offering broadband is acting in an anticompetitive way are somehow frustrating consumer demand, there are alternatives for consumers. Theres also the fact that the fastest going seven of the broadband market is the wireless segment. That mixes of everything, and waters down the cableization argument. Part of the premise of that argument is that there is market power. And an abuse of that market are. If that is the case, you can look to section five of the ftc act. You can look at the department of justice and tried antitrust division has and would be investigation friday what if not lawsuits filed by the government and consumer activists and plaintiffs attorneys. That acts as a deterrent for the socalled cableization. But the cable industry is under threat from the Wireless Industry and unlicensed wireless for consumer consumption of content and application host mike commissioner copps, whats wrong with netflix and at t teaming up and saying, hey, we will give you discounts and you can access netflix or whatever Service Provider if you join at t . Whats wrong with that . Guest i think its just big money joining hands with big money and discouraging the garage entrepreneurs, the small website operators, the small content reduce the. I want to go back for just a second to your playing a chairman wheelers remarks, because they are good remarks but i think we are wise to realize how difficult really this is to do. Its easier said than done. Ive been in this town for 40 some years right now, and doing all of the time ive seen the power of the special interests and the power of big money proliferate. So the folks on the other side who are against this kind of open internet have armies of lobbyists and wheelbarrows full of money to deploy it in this crusade. So this is not something thats going to be politically easy for people, but im counting on the fact that the commission will be, as immune as possible in this day and age, go ahead and do it. As for transparency we are all for transparency, but if theres no rules about what will be transparent, then i think weve got a problem. If were going to count on companies, because they say were going to be in the mode of good behavior, well, thats taking of the. Because the dynamic of capitalism and Free Enterprise is to try to get market control and tried to get gatekeeper control. Theres nothing wrong with that. But if you let it go and if you have no public oversight and you cant say stop at some period before becomes a duopoly or monopoly. Then you let the situation go way beyond what should be. Host weve gone too long and i apologize to our viewers for the. Thats my fault. Want to get you involved in this conversation. Michael in i dont know what state youre calling from, but youre calling on republican line. Go ahead, michael. Pennsylvania. Caller thanks to cspan. I think the fcc is very integral to our free and open society. I agree with both of these gentlemen. I particularly like what mr. Copps is saying about the openness of the internet and the freedoms that is allowed because of this new entity, socalled new entity. But i equation for both the gentlemen. It may not be completely related to the internet. We have a local radio talk show that has recently been taken off the air, and i think it was very popular. And i think it was taken off for political reasons, and i think that the fcc, this new rule that the senate has, without the 60 votes you could approve with a simple majority. And i think that you do not have the kind of mainstream political thought now that used to have because of this ruling. And i think that you can pack the fcc with very radical viewpoints. And i think thats one of the things that is detrimental to our free society. I was wondering on your take on some of these appointments. Host Robert Mcdowell, any word for the year, especially comes to the radio issued . Guest im not familiar with the fact of that particular matter of a show i guess being taken off the air, of a Radio Station in pennsylvania. You think it was for political reasons. I dont how to respond directly to that. But if youre saying there is some fcc action involved, i would love to know more about that. That would be probably patently unconstitutional. There is something called the fairness doctrine which came up in the late 1940s which was the governments effort to try to balance political speech over the airways. It was upheld, barely upheld a Supreme Court case in 1969 called the red wine case. But i think today would be viewed as unconstitutional under the first amendment. We think of other platforms, lets say a newspaper, the government would have no right under the first a memo to try to balance political speech there. And it shouldnt on the air and shouldnt try to do so on the internet either. And it doesnt need to because its very low barrier to entry there. Regarding whether or not the commission can be packed. Commissioners are appointed by the president and confirmed by the senate. I think you mentioned the Nuclear Option debate that no longer does it take 60 votes to get nominees through. We will see. Thats going to be invoked from time to time it sounds like the i agree with senator mcconnell, with the majority in the senate to regret that some day. When the tide turns. But nontheless, sure, thats entirely possible. But right now i think you have five highly intelligent committed public servints serving on the fcc. I disagree socalled philosophically with some of the folks there but i think theres some very thoughtful, intelligent people think the American People should take some comfort in that. I might amend that statement later if they do something egregious that i may disagree with, but its not packed right now. Other than the White House Party instigate the majority of the fcc. Host Michael Copps, irish eyes tweets in to us, the fcc is a glorified revolving door for those who profit from the control of the media and telecom. It does not serve the Public Interest. Guest i think you could make the case, probably in government by and large, in agencies, not just the fcc, that there has been something of a revolving door which is power entrenching power. That needs to be minimized. There needs to be regulations against the. The Obama Administration tried to put in some curbs on that. I dont think its worked 100 . But the fcc mission in life is to preserve the Public Interest. It is a Consumer Protection Public Interest agency. Thats its job. Host the new chairman, tom wheeler, served as the head of a couple of Interest Groups in washington, corporate Interest Groups, cable communications, et cetera. Is that a mistake to put him as chair of the fcc after the . Guest i think its performance tests that will count. Tom is an immensely capable man who understands how the town works. I dont think is looking for another job anywhere in his career right now. I think is going to be dedicated to Public Interest. I certainly hope so. But that being said i still think as a general matter, given the amount of money in this town and give an uninhibited campaign expenditures, revolving door, weve got to start putting the Public Interest back on top. Host i want to ask you both, start with you commissioner mcdowell, should wired communication and wireless communicate should be treated the same . That are currently not, correct . Guest let me throw out a hashtag forgive for dialogue which is hashtag, act update. Comactupdate. I think we need a rewrite. The last time they were fundamentally rewritten was really 1934. We have an amendment to that in 1996. But the foundation was too rooted in 1934. If you dig deeper into the foundation it goes back to 19th Century Railroad monopoly law. What it does is it regulates different technologies sort of based on their history. If you look at the average american consumer, they dont really care what conduits that content can over or if theyre generating their own content or application. We right now have a statutory construct where if its over the air one way, broadcast, its traded heavily. If its over the air another way, unlicensed wireless mobile wireless, its traded another way. Or licensed wireless, yet another way. Over glaxo cable, treat another way. If its over fiber, treated another way. If its over twisted wires, its traded yet another way. Whats happening with everything you are doing in your computer right now what i might do him isolated is that as those communications traversed, theyre going through a number of technologies but with different regulatory treatment. That creates distortions in the marketplace. I think we need to look at all of this through the lens of competition law and with the goal being Consumer Protection. What harms are they being put forth to consumers . And so i would hope that the fcc would actually get a market study of the broadband market, a bona fide peerreviewed market study before it acts. Back to chairman wheelers remarks. And also before Congress Acts to rewrite the laws. So my hat is off to chairman fred upton of the energy and Commerce Committee and subcommittee chairmen greg walden for launching last month a dialogue which will take years, but a dialogue to examine how can we modernize, bring up to date our communication loss . Because they are out of date and theyre creating a lot of distortion. Guest i dont think wireless and wireline have to be regulated exactly the same. But certainly when you get to fundamentals like Consumer Protection and you say, well, one cant discriminate by the of again, thats a dissimilarity of regulation and i dont think its appropriate in this day and age. I dont think we have years to ponder all this stuff, because every year that goes by the power of these Big Companies grow. More and more consolidation, more and more mergers pending, more and more gatekeeping out there. So generally the protections should be the same. You get in the weeds answer medical debate whether its a common carrier, just because it harkens back to a previous era, that maybe. So is the constitution of the nsas and declaration of Independence House of representatives stephen is calling from new york. Caller its one of the beautiful finger lakes. I think i want to set a couple things. Mr. Copps is correct in everything he has said, and mr. Mcdowell likes to focus on the Consumer Experience, but the truth is that Small Businesses like ours are being locked out a big internet players. Let me give you some detail. We are a Small Business in upstate new york is the largest customer is the federal government. We were pioneers of the internet and weve been sending personal and business email from our own servers since 1995. We do not, nor have we ever, been a source of spam. Last year, however, without explanation yahoo stopped delivering our mail to its yahoo email customers, including my own brotherinlaw. At about the same time, verizon stopped even answering our servers connection request. So i cant even send email to my sisterinlaw either. Neither yahoo nor verizon is responsive to requests to resume delivering email that comes from our little mail server. Yahoos bounced messages referred me to a nonexistent yahoo website. Verizon simply ignores all communication house of representatives all right, were going to bring this to a close but if you could put a conclusion on that. Caller it has no authority in this matter. Host youre saying the fcc has no authority in this matter . Transfer i wrote to the fcc about this and it replied that it had no authority in this matter most to you guys are doing just a little bit of a story here. Guest well, i think these are details that fill in the argument that ive been trying to make any more eloquent fashion and more factbased fashion than i was able to do. These companies have tremendous power to run over small providers and small websites. Thats what we are talking about. Guest i dont know the specifics on the case, and, obviously, would love to talk to you more about that. But if, indeed, thats the case, under the Net Neutrality rules that stood, one could make the argument that you could file a complaint with the fcc. I dont know if you did that during that window of time or not, but if it is a matter of traffic congestion, then the fcc might come back and say its reasonable Traffic Management or Network Management the item is the specifics of what youre saying but it is a market are concerned thats harming you that i think you have, maybe deceptive trade practices claim or certain antitrust claim, there are a lot of other legal tools for you to look at the i would write to the ftc and just eight attorney general easy think you are being unfairly treated. Again, i dont know your specific facts. Host Robert Mcdowell, of your tweets in, unless we can be convinced otherwise, the quote unquote all packets are created equal and treated equal idea seems like the way to go. Guest right. And Network Engineer would actually say, no. Heres why. If youre downloading the video, you want that experience to be seamless. You dont want fragmentation and pixelization of that video. So when youre using skype, lets say for voice over ip, you want that to be a good experience so those voice over ip bits have to be given priority. Thats not treating all the same. Some would say of course thats reasonable Traffic Management, Network Management. Theres a lot of engineering that goes on here. We have to be careful of sort of over sticker saying treated all the same. Thats not the Mainstream Press likes to oversimplified. Its much more complicated than that. So i the end of the day, is the Consumer Experience of being frustrated, and why . Is it an application that is clogging the pipes, or the airways, or is it some other nefarious purpose like being anticompetitive . Treating all this the same sounds good if you say so, but its not the way an engineer would look at how best to run thinks. Host Michael Copps from the wall street journal this morning, sprint talking, taking tmobile in a merger. If youre sitting on the fcc right now just generally, how do you think he would vote on that . Guest first of all i would want to see the background and listen to arguments on both sides, historically as you know i have been an opponent of all of this consolidation that weve had. Some will argue its better to have a third big competitor so you have verizon and at t and then this combined entity. But i dont think it represents the kind of competition the Wireless Industry really needs to happen. You cant unwind the clock. You cant go back thousands and thousands of wireless providers, but you can do better than were doing now through spectrum auctions and screens and captions to encourage some kind of competition. I would look at it skeptical, and dont have an open mind if somebody comes up with some facts that i have thought of, but it is not meant a good trend and i have not favored it. Host sharon in marietta, georgia. You were on with former fcc commissioners Robert Mcdowell and Michael Copps. Sharon . Caller good morning. First of all i want to say off the top, mr. Copps is my hero. I watched him sometime back when william powell, Colin Powells son was sitting on the board pretty much throwing the fcc, trying to do the fcc under the bus, as far as i was concerned. And i have to say that absorbing all this, me as a consumer, customer, i go to places like cbc, link tv which i contributed in order to get news thats not mandated or put out by big media, or aljazeera. But i do this because i cannot get content that is informative in this country because it is owned by big business. And here is mr. Mcdowell trying to say calmly at these companies have the right to come to the internet, which the taxpayers subsidy, although the military came up with it and now they want to privatize this. So they will control the content now. Another place i go to for news of course is the internet. Now when a cookie in it i have to be concerned that i wont have access to independent content either because hes saying something maybe well have to be either anticonfederate or blah, blah, blah. The courts will probably say its a start, then i competitive because whos going to prove it . How many lawyers will take to disprove it . Its just ridiculous. Host i think we got the point. Lets get a response from Robert Mcdowell. Guest i would point, sharon, to the predecember 21, 2010, internet. That was the date an an antidumg order was voted on. Barriers were low, it was blossomed throughout the globe. You can find more information and more news and opinion on the internet than any other time in human history. Consumers have more information at the fingertips within just minutes than people did in their entire lifetime. So if we want to go back to the days of three broadcast networks and made one of two newspapers per city and have lots of government oversight and revelation of that, i wouldnt take those days again. I think were in the best possible situation. Were just entering the golden age of Public Discourse and access information. And thats why there are lot of forging regimes throughout the world wanting more state involvement. The internet has blossomed beautifully precisely because it has been unfettered. The concern i have is with more and more state intrusion whether nsa incident or if its international attempts to try to have more government involvement with the net, thats the wrong direction to go in. You are enjoying, sharon, more information and opinion at your finger tips than any other time in your life. That happened precisely because the internet space was deregulated. Guest sherron, i think you put your finger on one of the central problems facing us today. What youre talking about is largely a result of all of the consolidation of Media Industry has gone through over the last generation. It is a documented fact that when these companies merge, then theyre looking to pay for the mergers and to finance the transaction. The first place were a lot of them looked to fire people and make the socalled economies is the nation. Ive seen very figures for it but since the turnofthecentury we have lost maybe 40 or 50 of our investigative journalists here in the United States of america. Thats no way to hold the powerful accountable. Last time i looked there were 26 states that dont even have a reporter a credited on capitol hill. How can you hold the powerful accountable . All kind of mischief taking place in state capitals passing laws in Voter Suppression and the regulation and all. The coverage of the state capitals is almost nonexistent. So thats been the problem in traditional media, but now its a problem in the media, too. Blogs are much were difficult to start right now than they were five years ago. We dont have a model for Investigative Journalism in the internet, and unless we face up to the problems we are going to dumb down the civic dialogue in this country to an extent will make even the worst decisions for the future of the United States of america. Guest i dont know live now to capitol hill for discussion hoste hosted by the Congressional Internet Caucus Advisory Committee looking at the future of the internet. This after court ruling this week by the d. C. Circuit court of appeals ruling saying the fcc had improperly tried to read it Broadband Internet providers, thereby notifying the agencys socalled Net Neutrality rule. Live coverage here on cspan2. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]