charles barnett is a boeing 777 pilot. chuck, let me start with you. this report from "the new york times" that the plane was going at 45,000, then down to 23,000, then back up to 30,000. would that be auto pilot or would a pilot have to be in control of those kinds of erratic maneuvers? >> well, thanks for having me, wolf. i think that suggests that an airplane likely out of control. going up to 45,000 feet is almost 2,000 feet above the surface ceiling of the airplane. the airplane wouldn't want to do that even with a pilot trying to suggest that it go up, with the pilot trying to control the plane to tgo up there. it does suggest a controllability issue. >> that someone was in control if you're going from 45 to 23 back up to 30, it's not auto pilot, right? >> it would not be auto pilot. and i'm not sure a pilot could make the airplane do that