And welcome to cross talk were all things are considered im Peter Lavelle trust in the Mainstream Media is an all time low but no one should be surprised in the media has itself to blame for this sad state of affairs is a selfinflicted wound and actually a conscious Business Model the media no longer has an interest in reporting the news media today propagates ideology. Crosstalk in the state of the media im joined by my guest Eric Alterman in new york he is a sunni distinguished professor of english and journalism at Brooklyn College as well as the liberal media columnist for the nation. And also in new york we have lionel he is a legal analyst and a news decoder at lionel media dot com and in plymouth we crossed to patrick kennings and he is a journalist writer and founder of the news website twenty First Century wired dot com all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it let me go to lionel first in new york im not going to list all of the mistakes the Mainstream Media has made over the last few months because that would take up the entire program and then some suffice to say lionel i think its quite evident that the New York Times the Washington Post c n n m s m b m s n b c and other news organizations theyre making mistakes because they have a blind hatred for donald trump their blind hatred is throwing journalistic practices and principles out the window and this is damaging the information sphere in the United States and i would say the political process as well go ahead lionel. I would venture to say is an admixture of trump derangement syndrome in full bloom its negligence its malfeasance and it also is that amazing isnt it amazing in shocking perhaps that none of these mistakes every new word to the benefit of trump already body else or they never deal with Hillary Clinton or those of the socalled left and Progressive Left or whatever its always a unit directional mistake there is never and by the by the biggest problem right now that is facing this country is not this this this this problem geisha in this proliferation i should say of sexual dalliances its the fact that todays Mainstream Media todays ted baxter sockpuppet echo chamber rancid ossified media is dead its true isnt it death throes and the face is an existential threat thats their problem and youd think theyd be shaping up as you know you could then they really were negligent that eric let me go do you think thats a very good point to mention i mean they should be they should get their act together but you know we had we still dont know why three different outlets confirm the same. Bogus russia story last week and they just had a retraction or an update but they dont they didnt explain to the public how they came to that disastrous conclusion across the board i mean no wonder people dont trust the media anymore theyre not transparent go ahead eric. I find everything ive heard said on this program so far to be ridiculous i think the Mainstream Media are first of all the word media is a plural noun so to talk about the media you have to make distinctions between which media youre discussing. I think the media you mean which is c. N. N. The New York TimesWashington Post and sarah i think theyre an impossible position because they are faced with a president who lies on average six times a day thats a statistic compiled by the Washington Post he probably lies much more than that but those are the lies ive caught using a very narrow definition of a lie so the Mainstream Media doesnt act the Mainstream Media doesnt lie is that what youre saying first of all were talking. Well im pretty capable of saying exactly what i want you not to put words in my mouth but im trying to understand your words thoughts owns lies fox news fox news lies but no the Mainstream Media by and large certainly the New York TimesWashington Post and other reputable outlets never lie on purpose they make with stakes but its very hard to cover a president who is purposely undermining american democracy who again lies on average six times a day and doesnt care that its called lying let me ask you a question just take one for instance donald trump repeatedly tweeted that barack Obama Wiretapped him on purpose now the Justice Department found that that was not true as well but theyre saying has there seems to be overwhelming evidence that he was a less than he was i dont survey im not im not around then i dont know theres no i wouldnt i dont know i know i said before that im sort of that thought and i dont want to have any filibustering its one more time believe in freedom feel about for and i want to hear that freedom of speech from patrick inclement go ahead patrick react to what youve heard so far would have. First of all im going to disagree with what eric said about defining the terms im going to say media as a singular entity because when it comes to all things russian grammatical things and try to media. It well it might be grammatically correct but it does represent the reality of the situation which is that media is completely together in lockstep reading off the same hymn sheet on all things russian and if you want to talk about the Mainstream Media this these are all fake news stories for Mainstream Media this is just my file for the Washington Post the New York Times c. N. N. Granted cnns house for this but this is perhaps my favorite pokey man go was hijacked by Vladimir Putin to mislead americans this is a c. N. N. Exclusive this is just one example of many and to say that the the. What youre doing eric is is creating a false equivalency trying to compare Donald Trumps twitter tirades to the fourth whats supposed to be the fourth the state who has a collective budget operating budget of over ten million ten billion sorry billion dollars in the United States all of these Mainstream Media outlets basically putting out fake news the c. N. N. Wiki leaks story is quite interesting because the same socalled sources were used apparently by c. B. S. News as well as c. N. N. And others and you read the email and you can see the date it was september fourteenth so i had the question is you know were these did these sources actually read the socalled evidence or should it have been done in braille or or the c. N. N. So journalists socalled journalists are they illiterate how does this type of mistake come to come to be and how is it repeated and passed on to other laundered laundered through c. N. N. And then on cant be said b. S. I dont know let me or a c. N. N. Uses twitter i dont like to put fake news out and then retracts it let me go to line here i mean its that ok the story that was just mentioned by patrick there i mean its a they want to believe in what they say this is they see this and they they jump on board is it laziness or is it you know what level of intentionality because it i said theres so many of them i mean patrick has held up a whole stack of the i mean it seems endless i could cant imagine this would have happened during the Obama Administration go ahead lionel well. Well at first had to start off with the idea as evidence exhibit a by well after all you have the most lining president so therefore anything that happens is somehow waiting cancelled by the fact that well trump is a liar lets take this week now you know how is a c. N. N. Story about downtime given a wiki leaks memo or an email and all it did was reading a day correctly so its all in the fall which is reading the data. Really and not say oh for fourteen its all a was it was a transposition of numbers thats all it was now you tell me how Donald Trumps mendacity and thank you for clarifying that medium is a singular noun not a plural but tell me how to their employer only now notice the name down city you get a little guilty to two two whacks veritas you explain to me how that has anything to do with c. N. N. Or somebody else to say you know what we made a mistake thats all it is. Eric you want to reply to that go ahead sure first of all im not here to defend c. N. N. I think c. N. N. Is pretty crappy and they did make a mistake and they didnt make it. So journalists make mistakes old time its a very imperfect. Practice thats why its called the first draft of history the press is there to make room said that what you what you were doing what you were doing what you were doing is actually trying to create a false equivalence between the deliberate lies of the Trump Administration and its supporters and the mistakes that are part of being a part of a journalist im not saying dont make mistakes im not saying this will not think you know united submitted some still not there has been very specious premise has done its not what has gone from im not done im not thats not the confidence when has donald trump admitted that or kodama was born in the United States. No waiting ok lets talk about something out which i like that happen this is very good ultimate good thing else i dont talk about what were talking about now bring Something Else up fantastic look i want to give you an example just in i was attacking your absolutely baseless claim you said the problem is forget the fact that this is fake media we have the most lying the most mendacious president there is thats what you said i was addressing that so what do you do when youre losing the argument lets bring up the bursar thing lets change the subject but i dont know with whom you do theres a lot of bases listen well not what i said what i said is work what i said is listen fucking what i said youre misrepresenting what i said why youre misrepresenting what i said what i said is i dont think it difficult. To speak go ahead eric go ahead go ahead let what i said i did not say into the subject what i said is the media are not up to the job of covering a president who lies on average six times a day and doesnt care that hes caught lying will just lie every time hes caught lying so theyre not thats very difficult to do because you cant fact that every single sentence the president says so theyre going to make mistakes theres going to be more mistakes theyre going to be serious mistakes that does not take away from the fact that this president is what i say hello good morning our democracy and our media and our media are going to hold a lot of holding that stands between it well let it go you know theyre going to clearly go to put on record it seems to me this really low standards of journalism thats whats destroying democracy and the faith in the system that the journalism has to take responsibility for what they do forty seconds patrick before we go to the break go ahead newsflash eric and everybody politicians lie barack obama im going to close gitmo with through the president and i could get on and on and on on those lies so politicians i was elected i cant you know its no longer let me finish let me finish sir let me. In a sure ok you can expect to make excuses for what you call the Fourth Estate and sort its ok for them to what you call make mistakes theyre fabricating news stories theyre fabricating sources theyre literally making up news and putting it out on the cycle there is no evidence of russian collusion eighteen months later theres nothing fake news for eighteen straight months on all the Major Networks and newspapers that is the fake news crisis it is not all right gentlemen im going to turn to be here with you to go to a short break and after that short break well continue our discussion on the state of the media stay with our. Twenty. C. Our Central Banks adding. To their Strategic Reserves alongside gold so big gold buyers like china and russia will be adding big point to their Strategic Reserves some banks possibly in venezuela they could completely change their fortunes and the Global Economy by switching over to crypto switching over to bitcoin and then that will set a precedent for other countries of policy. To cross like were all Things Considered im peter to mind you were discussing the state of the media. Ok let me go back to eric in new york and i think you would least concede that the liberal Mainstream Media has a down. For trump and i think thats why theyre making all of these mistakes because they have a certain goal and anything that they can get their hands on or even make up theyre going to employ because they think theyre morally correct they think theyre doing the right thing i actually believe that they think that theyre doing the right thing but what i do what bothers me is what we said in this program is that damages the profession of journalism in the process and the trust people have in the media go ahead eric well first of all i concede nothing you just said. To go back to the previous point i happen to have written my doctoral dissertation at Stanford University on president ial lying on the history of president s like i published a book called when president s lie and im writing a second book on president ial long right now for basic books. Not all president s and almost no one ever told a lie may i finish or it may i finish may i finish. Obama well though you need a new. Eric keep going eric keep going. Well the example you brought up sir is not a lie obama said he would close gitmo he tried to close gitmo and congress would lead thats not a law without a willing thats a failed policy were still waiting you know in years later to finish math. Youre waiting for obama because i want to know when its going to close president Hillary Clinton. Benefit and. May i finish you have to answer the to answer the moderators question. The little quote unquote liberal media are not liberal the Mainstream Media is in the business of making money thats why during the Campaign Donald trump was given billions of dollars in free media with his speeches being carried live his phone calls been carried live where he lied consistently lied about virtually everything he said as again he has told according to the Washington Post count hes been erics every night this is her and this right is a program is about letting me finish well because youre going into the weeds again this program is about professional journalism is we dont need to hear the crickets on these other topics ok i mean birth urson you know all of this is on top of what its about to get at the president ial is one of journalism and they are breaking their bond with the public the polls show it ok let me go to lionel last year c. B. S. News said the president said trump is good for c. B. S. For exactly the same reasons that eric mentioned here its not about getting the story right its about the kind of propaganda they want to propagate and make money off of it that is a disgrace to journalism you should stop calling it journalism then leinil go ahead this is going to be one of the greatest interviews discussions ever because this fella. Does exactly i beg to differ what everybody hates he is the personification of that which we hate prevarication and not admitting which is true and obvious to anybody the issue that peter asked was what do you do about not fake news not bias because we can argue bias all day long but what about when they just get it wrong then they just get about thats the framework mr p. H. D. Thats the framework so what this fella does is sort of answering that because he cant answer it hes smart enough to realize i have no interest let me throw in something about trump being a liar and that is the reason why the mainstream liberal media is dying from it to last throes Everybody Knows it and you sure are exhibit a and i present to the jury that is the world see this is what its about you cant even answer the question all you had to do was just concede that the jew the duty of journalism is just to get it right would it have killed your fella to say that but you cant do it because you know we i dont know and you know i guess i dont think there is some kind of a and man america that had one hundred clean let me go to patrick here but patrick one of the things that gets going you dont have to go to deal with facts here but unlike the liberal media that makes make things up i mean you know it was seventeen intelligence agencies. Its a fact that the the d. N. C. Was hard but the f. B. I. Never looked at the servers the d. N. C. Didnt allow that what im getting at is that you keep hearing on c. N. N. And this n. B. C. Eccentrics they keep repeating the same unsubstantiated claims as if it is. A law of gravity and you never hear anybody pushing back there this group thing. This is exactly what it is its group think and its turned into a cult with it really its a religious cult now they have and anyone that violates it is considered a heretic go ahead patrick like us i suppose for us i will agree with erick that its not a liberal media exclusively per se that happens to be a kind of a liberal hysterical insurgency right now in the Mainstream Media but c. N. N. Will read straight off of pentagon briefings or state Department Briefings and the New York Times will do the same straight off the party line on certain issues so they really are there to protect the establishment whether thats a liberal or a conservative establishment or military Industrial Complex establishment you just have to have this hysteria going on the problem with all journalistic standards have been thrown out the window in the last eighteen months because when it comes to anything russia or trump but especially russia this is much bigger than trumped by the way this is as a geo political scope to it its tell dont show so the accusations get rolled out but they dont actually have any evidence can out can someone find me one piece of evidence that russia hacked the us elections or even hacked the d. N. C. Or colluded or meddled or anything nothing the facebook bought story that everybody ran with from the Washington Post the New York Times that was if you really drill down on that story that was a case of the Obama Administration colluding with a Silicon ValleyCompany Facebook senator warner from virginia did multiple trips over there to tried to extract some story about russian bots finally facebook capitulated and gave him a narrative about all these russian bots purchasing facebook ads its a laugh and that dominated the United States mainstream all the Networks News cycles for i dont know how long weeks ok that is a fake story that is a fabricated narrative its designed for a specific political purpose the problem with political journalists and bias. Partisan journalists and erick i think you unfortunately do fall in to that category is that youre good for the party but youre not really not good for america because youre just youre picking one side and youre letting the people who are singing youre singing your song off the hook every single time that is the problem ok let me go to eric and eric you we had david frum from the atlantic the same man that brought us. The w m ds in iraq coined the phrase axis of evil ok and he in the eleven take it was on c. N. N. And he said about this story that the networks got wrong on this email leaks to. The Trump Campaign he said mistakes are precisely the reason that people should trust the media. Ok try to swallow that its the process of bringing truth to light i mean this is got to be the most orwellian thing i think ive ever heard in media ok because were wrong people should trust this what the hell is he talking about. Well you know here is david frums representative but i imagine that youre probably taking that out of context and dully no not at all in this i took it exactly as i wrote it out and i said it say that ok ill just dismiss it may i say i got out of contact dont get it ok really no yeah probably yes but may i address the point c. N. N. Which im not here to defend i think they do a crappy job but c. N. N. Apologized for its mistake when he didnt explain killers who you are its why you know hes administering why he did not explain my point no transparency they demanded from everybody else has he demanded from donald trump but they give their viewers no transparency after with been doing for eighteen months ok never any kind of here to defend c im not im not here im not asking you to be their lawyer i dont care what they do i do i hear what this how do i get emotional when we have a really awesome bill in front you have a degree in it right of journalism i think you know what we what kind of responsibilities go along with the profession now live go ahead jump in go ahead i dont have a degree in journalism you know thats another mistake it would have been better and i want to apologize that i had i apologize ok i made a mistake of saying see journal a real journalist get a real journalist do it ok i dont have to carry water for c. N. N. Or any but i made one here go ahead lionel. Bad pitter bad bad that what could have been done was originally what this fella could have done this fella could have said look we live in a different world right now its a twenty four seven machine is runaway train its this monster its you gotta feed constantly the days of cronkite the days of being able to sit around in your office and luxuriating till six oclock and double and triple check thats a part of the problem maybe theres a zealousness maybe theres a part of bias he could have answered that thats thats a real problem because its the immediacy its the days of social media its the fact that citizen civilian journalists and alternative media and foreign media are chomping at the bit are and chomping at the heels of these people i understand now but that could have been done but instead and this is the ball and i hope peter that somehow everybody remembers us and just just takes takes this fellas comment and just says this is the problem its always trump even when you could have very easily said ok look i make a concession look at problems no no even then we dont give and change the same thing with russia even though right now weve been talking about this story and not one person in any medium or in the media actively has ever been able to say here is the best evidence of any kind of collusion or change of the photo whatever even though thats never been done i dont miss a beat and they dont give in and you just keep forward thats the problem and when in doubt when your back is against the wall when you have absolutely nothing ok you know let me jump in and let me let me give let me give allow during the last two on let me give patrick the last word i think one of the interesting things in this information war thats going on is that how the the Mainstream Media allows itself to be played by trump every single day hes calling the shots they loathe him but hes actually determining the new cycle and they cannot accept that and i think thats one. Thing that they need to get their head around go ahead last few seconds patrick go ahead sure whether its the fake dossier put out by buzz feed and echoed by c. N. N. And all these other sort of fake stories about trump and donald trump has a right to go to twitter at that point and defend himself and i would to anyone else would probably do the same if theyre in his position whether hes a pathological liar and ok im patrick on that or im not im very spirited discussion gentlemen but weve run out of time many thanks to my guests in new york and in plymouth and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r. T. C. You next time and remember talk rules. Was selling you on the idea that dropping bombs brings us to the Chicken Hawks wars and you know the battles. That you saw to try to tell you that will be gossip and public. School and. All the harm that we along. With. I played for many clubs over the years so i know the gaming sorry guys. Football isnt only about what happens on the pitch pull the final school its about the passion from the fans its the age of the super manager kilian narrowness and spending two hundred and twenty million on one player. So its an experience like nothing else i want to because i want to share what i think what i know about the beautiful game played great so one more chance for. The base this minute. Where is that country called russia no ones ever no one has ever had a country never even heard about most school. Q. It was always somerset and i built tiny houses for the homeless. Sees back and they are here why do these guys down for me a tiny house is not a solution it will be a free for off. Base my safe conditions to live a. New suit of clothes and run the city of los angeles. Always good terrorist. Nobody should be homeless anywhere but especially in one of the richest countries in the world. I build everything with sort of this because i make a lot of mistakes. And its easy to back out your mistakes in compton South Central l. A. A pint sized idea as well this summer as in a battle with city author already so when you have nothing in order to go. You know having Something Like this may as well be a castle. The mayor of los angeles has to clear the city is in the midst of a homelessness crisis. Overseas trying to solve it one tiny house at a time the tiny house idea is very simple its shelter. Food water and shelter are not optional theyre required for human survival so its a. Temporary solution and like the first stone a foundation if you will to helping people who are homeless. According to elvis these cheap and portable tiny homes meant to be on the streets of l. A. And they need a fix. But right now theyre not moving anywhere because city authorities banned them