do it again. we are all going to work together on this. >> there is one person in this country who has defeated donald trump. his name is joe biden. >> on friday the new york times editorial board urging president biden to drop his t reelection bid. the paper also calling donald trump a significant jeopardy to democracy. all of this as the country looks ahead to monday and the supreme court will issue the ruling on immunity. that is the same day former trump white house strategist steve bannon heads to prison after the supreme court rejected the request to delay his sentence. he will serve a four month a sentence on contempt of congress charges as his appeal proceeds. on friday the court ruled for a january 6 writer challenging an obstruction charge. that focuses on a charge that a former president trump also faces in his election interference. will this affect trump? a former investigator says likely no. we will hear why when we speak with him later this hour. we have several reporters in place covering these new developments. we will be here in studio with aaron gilchrist who has new reactions. how is the president responding to all the criticism of his debate performance? >> the president and first lady are out right now at a campaign meeting. they are making a couple of other stops in the new york area. it is sort of let's keep going. let's do the work and move forward. we also know the president and his team are acknowledging what happened thursday night that it was not a good debate and not a good performance for president biden. i want you to anhear part of wh he had to say himself at raleigh, north carolina. >> let me close with this. s. i know i am not a young man. i will state the obvious. i don't walk as easy as i used a to and don't speak as smoothly as i used to. i don't debate as well as i used to but i know what i do know. i know how to tell the truth. i know right from wrong. i know how to do this job. i know how to get things done. e. i know mike millions of americans know when you get knocked down you get back up. >> we get these reports as small groups of reporters travel with the president. there was one from today that said there were people with signs that said, when you get knocked down you get back up. there was also report from last night. the first lady spoke omat a couple of events without cameras in the room but part of what she told an audience at a fundraiser, she said, after last night's debate he said, i don't know what happened. i did not feel that great. then i said, look. we are not going to let 90 minutes define the four years you've been president. that really speaks to outhe attitude the campaign has at this moment. they had a bad night. ad it was one bad night in the course of three and a half, almost 4 years in office. one bad night in the context of a larger campaign. they want to continue driving the message that the president is experienced. he's done so many things while he's been in office and the message that donald trump is a threat to democracy and freedom and they need to work to keep them from winning the election. >> and that clip you are playing from north carolina. he was so strong, forceful, vigorous. the line that got me, i know how to tell the truth. directly contrasting with his opponent. >> and very deliberately. we will hear that over and over again. donald trump ndlied, lies. that the message the campaign is ag putting forward. we see the idirect contrast, i know how to tell the truth. >> thank you so much for that. we will go now to jillian frankel whose in washington. donald trump held his first rally in virginia since the debate. counted he frame it for supporters? >> reporter: the former president taking a victory lap on stage casting his debate performance and this takes of nc the election in general in l terms of strength versus weakness. he was careful to avoid saying biden is too old to run. trump is just a few years younger, of course. instead saying he thinks biden is no longer up to the job. he also brushed off speculations that biden could drop out in the next few weeks saying he is still polling better than other democrats like kamala harris, gavin newsom, and even michelle obama. here is more on that. >> the question every voter should be asking themselves is not whether joe biden candace -- can survive a 90 minute debate performance but whether america can survive four more years of crooked joe biden in the white house. many people are saying that after last nights performance that joe biden is leaving the race. the fact is, i don't really believe that because he does better in polling than any of the democrats they are talking about. >> one thing that did not come up much yesterday is trump's legal battles. the former president is set to be sentenced in the new york hush money case on july 11. >> right you are. will be waiting for that. thank you. joining me now is brendan buck political analyst and former press secretary to paul ryan and democratic strategist and former advisor to the obama campaign. let's start here. did president biden's remarks after the debate do anything to blunt people's fears? or is there a certain level of damage done? >> we have to be honest with ourselves. there has been a certain level of damage. the stakes were really high and people remember that biden not only called for the debate but also set the parameters. they also remember the conversations about who was in the prep room and all of the hours spent in that. i think in many cases it fell flat. the party as well as the candidate and the team have to own up. debates drop a larger audience r than ralleys. there's been global concern around what happened but i think joe biden coming out and leading in on it and telling people where he stands and doing as much as he can on the ground, specifically battleground state is what matters. the debate was no doubt disastrous but it's not something i don't believe he can come back from. >> brendan, if biden keeps up a robust appearance on the campaign trail how much will that reduce post debate anxietyd has there been a plausible explanation for what happened? >> if they take heart of what happened in north carolina at the rally, i think that is exactly how we got into the problem in the first place. that was a person reading from a teleprompter in front of a cheering and adoring crowd. any politician can do that. they seem to have convinced themselves through very carefully choreographing everything he's done for the last three -- few years that he can get by. they have frankly gaslight a lot of us that he's not in as much cognitive decline as we are seeing. that all came crumbling down. frankly, i think they have been lying to us. i think they knew that he's not as sharp as they are letting on. i think they reknew when he declined to do a super bowl interview in front of millions of people. they knew he was like this when they refused to give the audio with the interview with the special counsel. i think they knew he was like this and they allowed him to run . we have seen very clearly what is actually going on and it is pretty devastating and difficult to come back. >> can you see why they are holding onto hope? they believe that joe biden is the only one who can beat donald trump. >> i think they believe that. i think a big part of this is an incredible amount of disrespect for kamala harris. al it's very clear they looked around and said, nobody else can do this. i do not know that that is true. i may have understood where they were coming from if it was just looking at the polls, but it is not just looking at the polls. you have to look at your own candidate. the person you are urseeing behind closed doors every single day. they told us he is sharp as a tack. trying to get is not to see what we have been seeing. so look at the polling but they have to have known things like this would happen. could theoretically somebody dig out of the hole but i think what he showed us his he is not capable of doing that. he does not have the stamina to do those things that are necessary. >> i want you to weigh in on this. what are your thoughts because kamala harris, for her part she came out really forcefully after the debate. >> absolutely. i think vice president kamala harris knows that she said at the right hand of power. she is somebody who probably has the closest relationship to the president when it comes to not only his legacy and presidency but also she is the second flag on the ticket. it makes a lot of sense but i would argue this is a president who just came off of the t european tour. he also just came out of conversations around the g6. this is a president who has had several international conversations and exemplified strong leadership there. i think his campaign needs a revamp. i don't think there's any lie to be found there. he cannot keep doing things as is that we also have to acknowledge that kamala harris stands by the president. she's not trying to leapfrog him. she understands the importance of the legacy for this president and what it means to see everything through. er >> who else stands beside the president's former president barack obama. he believes in him and he said he understands having a really t bad night. he had a really bad debate as well. the headlines were just deplorable the day after. he went on to win. ronald reagan had the same experience and he went on to win. when you have barack obama standing in your corner and i saying, let's just let this play out. what does that say to you? >> it says that former president obama knows how this works. with that being said, having served on the campaign team i know that several people that were in the room did not have a job two weeks later. we have to make sure we are also realigning an understanding the facts on the ground. what we are seeing is that diverse voters, younger voters and others beyond the debate there have been some very serious concerns that they have. president biden has to meet ha them where they are. i do think that this will last beyond the debate. the debate was in june. te the election is in november. most people will be talking about it during early voting or in november. what will matter is what is happening on the ground. the ground game has to be strong and he has to have the right place to get it done. >> 50 million people or so look at that debate and watch it play out. there will be countless more looking at clips and it will be the narrative for some time. >> people are also watching the next couple weeks when the sentencing comes down for former president trump. >> let me get to something you wrote, brendan. a piece entitled donald trump may not have won the debate biden lost. you say it is all the more troubling because of how bad his opponent was. be my question to you, did any of the doubleheaders come away thinking biden wasn't good but trump was worse. did donald trump lose anyone? >> i guess we will see. ss i guess where i come down is, what donald trump did that night is what we expect out of him. it's the same donald trump we have seen since he started running in 2015. >> hang on. is that fair? this is a guy that we have become used to this. he has normalized this kind of bad behavior in the way he talks and lies and spewing out things that he thinks if he says it people will think it is true when it's blatantly not. is it fair to compare these two on that level in terms of substance? >> i think the person whose job it was to prosecute the case was joe biden on the debate stage. the fact that he could not do that is all the more evidence that he is not fit to have this. >> how would you go about preparing somebody for debate in the point of the debate is to get all of your points across. you are trying to say, here's what i've accomplished. you go up again somebody that is constantly line through the entire debate are going off d topic or refusing to answer a question. how do you prepare asomeone to do two things like that at the very same time? >> i will tell you one thing. people understand when he's line. when he says crazy stuff people understand it. we act like people at home have no ability to understand whether or not it was ridiculous. what joe biden should have been able to do was prosecute a case against donald trump on issues like abortion, january 6. he had an opportunity to do that and fell flat on his face. if joe biden is the only person capable of beating donald trump than that is a bad statement for the democratic party. if there's nobody else in the party that can do a better job than he did crossing a king -- prosecuting a case on that issue. there's not a single issue no where donald trump has incredible vulnerabilities where he laid a hand on him. he's incapable of doing it. nc >> is all the talk about biden's poor performance. is that overshadowing the most inflammatory things. donald trump lied accusing democrats of supporting murdering babies after birth. he attacked the injustice syste then there was this comment that has sparked a lot of backlash. >> the millions of people he has allowed to come in through the border that are taking black jobs. it could be 18, 19, even 20 million people. they are taking black 0 jobs an hispanic jobs. >> to my point earlier. in a succinct way does he get a pass because he has normalized his very much not normal behavior? >> he has been getting a pass since 2016. one of the things that happens is he has been somebody who lies regularly. it happens as quickly as he opens his mouth. some of the owners was on joe biden to prosecute the case butt there was no fact checking happening. there were no attempts by the moderators to get donald trump to answer a single question they asked. on top of that he actually pushed towards blaming mayor muriel bowser for january 6. he made up so much as he went along but because he did it forcefully, he did it with strength and with the level of sensibility where he was not wilding out, it came across as a very strong and poignant message even though it was lies. he knew how to deliver the to message. on style alone he wins in that sense but it's not that he wasn't mine. he lies all the time and the media should be writing stories about this. the new york times told joe biden he does not need to run but they are not seen it to the guy that has been twice impeached and has felony charges. they are not saying it to the guy who's unfit for office and willing to turn america into a dictatorship. at what point does the media do its job prosecuting donald trump? they cannot get above themselves and just keep letting this man slide. >> let me add that the new york times editorial said donald trump's performance was disqualify them. the last question to you, brendan. should there be a debate in september? >> there should be. i do not know that donald trumph has any incentive to do it. i think there is a lot of risk it joe biden having another debate. if he were to hhave any performance other than good, if he had any more stumbles i think it would be really problematic. i assume they will want to chance. i would put it at a 50-50 proposition. >> this was spirited. thank you for rolling with me. later this hour i will speak with a former spokesman for hillary clinton about how the biden campaign can move n forward. the question we keep asking over and over is finally answered. the potential impact we will see from monday's announcement from the supreme court. me cour i thought i'd buy stilts. hi honey. ahhh...ooh. look, no line at the hot dog stand. yes! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty.♪ only purple's gel flex grid passes the raw egg test. no other mattress cradles your body and simultaneously supports your spine. memory foam doesn't come close. get your best sleep guaranteed. save up to $800 during our 4th of july sale. visit purple.com or a store near you so, what are you thinking? 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>> it changes them, but does not eliminate them. i think even under the supreme court narrowing of 1512 see the obstruction statute at issue, there's a viable theory available to the special counsel that the former president's conduct still violates the statute. there was the submission of the fake collector certificates as part of the conspiracy to obstruct the official proceeding. that keeps it within this narrower definition of obstruction of an official proceeding. the alteration, mutilation, destruction of evidence or documents. i think the four accounts survived the supreme court decision. >> we have justice roberts who wrote the interpretation would criminalize a broad swath of prosaic conduct, exposing activists and lobbyists like to decades in prison. how do you interpret this? does this now give trump any kind of an opening to describe what happened on january 6 as activism? >> no. absolutely not. the chief justice the broad interpretation which is accepting an argument made by mr. fisher's attorney. they certainly attend to get their way through this official proceeding. i don't really see that the analogy applies. the broader the statute the more can be applied to get more discretion to prosecutors. this court has been consistently narrowing the scope. i really take issue with the view that this criminalizes lobbying. >> new numbers show that more than 1100 of the charges of the january 6 attack cannot charged with destruction. 52 of them have been convicted and sentenced on obstruction. does this mean that none of the rioters can be charged with obstruction? is this a blunder by the -- justice department? >> i wouldn't call it a blunder. they were reading the plain language of the statute. they lost the argument so it will require reorganizing of future charges. only a handful of defendants are charged with this single felony of obstruction. the vast majority have been charged with additional felonies . they have misdemeanor charges . there's no question that some will receive reduced sentencing's. it's a very small number that have been charged with january 6 related offenses. >> justice gorsuch asked weatherhead colors or pulling a fire alarm would qualify. so big pictures. what are they and where will the line be drawn when somebody designs to turn a mob on lawmakers. >> so those hypotheticals get a little bit closer. that is a broader statute than what the chief justice put into this. if somebody potentially under the government theory tried to distract -- obstruct a proceeding in a nefarious way the government could find that implemented the broader interpretation. they have shut that off unless it involves some sort of tangible evidence or document. there are a lot of other federal statutes that would criminalize as maryland will not be available. >> the supreme court is expected to deliver the ruling on absolute immunity. what is the best decision on how that will shape out. >> there are these options. they could reject the claim that would get the case immediately scheduled for trial this summer or fall or they could completely accept the former president's argument that he has complete immunity which would end the prosecution. i think it will likely be somewhere in the middle. from the questions asked during oral argument there may be son 's own conduct that they may find is immunized and that would kick this back to the judge to get a briefing and an argument as to how the evidence fits the test articulated. there is certainly not a finding that there is complete immunity. >> one question about steve bannon. he was convicted of defying subpoenas from the january 6 committee. can you remind us of his role in january 6 and why the committee subpoenaed him. i'm curious what you are going to hear from him. >> finding that he was involved in a discussion and disrupting the joint session. in this clip which has been played in our hearings says all is going to break loose . he was aware of some of the potential violence. we would ask him about all of those constituencies and he blew us off and refused to come in and he was convicted of criminal contempt. >> come see us any time. thank you so much. the state where they are stomping on the idea of separating church and state. how children will be impacted, next. 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[ cheering and applause ] the stakes are too high. the stakes are too high. president biden striking a vigorous tone in sharp contrast to his debate performance which was described as shaky and lackluster. >> let's get into this. how much can one valley less than 24 hours later blunt the take away from the debate. >> it is the first step with 128 or 129 days away. what we saw on thursday night, people will see what they want. a good man, a good president had a bad night. a terrible ex-president and terrible person who did a terrible job reminded us exactly what he has done, what he is going to do. that has translated oddly into no real significant change in the polls. some of them have been in joe biden's favor. i think there is a reason for that. pundits watch the right side of the screen and voters watch the left. if you watch the left you are reminded why donald trump should not be anywhere near this office again. as an aside i would say thank god. now we have to see every single word he said as opposed to all this talk. the muting did not help him. >> you cannot say it people have not been vertical. did this outweigh the substance of his answers. >> when your dad is 81 and you mother is 78 you don't say dad married a younger woman. i would put joe biden's acuity against donald trump's anyway. joe biden is in great physical health compared to donald trump. donald trump has lied about his health since 26 -- 2015. it was a bad night. it was a bad 90 minutes. thankfully it was just 90 minutes. there will be so many other moments including the state of the union. >> will there be other debates. there are growing questions about the prospect of president trump. >> president trump never did one debate. could the campaign just admit, let's say a debate is not the best way to communicate with voters especially trying to counter an opponent who lies and avoids answering questions. . it is hard to get in the punch . here is what i'm going to bring and lifting this up. >> i played donald trump and the hillary debate prep. i was spewing the hate and lies and total inaccuracies. on the one hand it is incredibly horrible that this good man, good president has to share the stage. a lot of people have said he should not have. on the other hand, i believe if you played that game 10 times joe biden comes out looking great at least seven times. >> that is september. it is a lot closer. there is time to turn this around 4 1/2 months ahead. >> there is a second debate until there is not a second debate. i think it was interesting that he did not see incentive for donald trump to debate. you are telling me and this entire cycle of the gop primary that donald trump would debate well. that sounds like somebody who is not confident in his own take. if i were him i would be pretty embarrassed. that was joe biden at his worst and donald trump at his best as defined is not lighting himself on fire or shooting somebody on fifth avenue. the numbers are still tight because people remember. i think there was one more potent that i hope voters picked up. this is just not a matter of remembering the four years of donald trump and the movies that we saw. he got worse every year. remember where he left off. he left off where you were talking about earlier. the january 6 attacks and coming and refusing to leave office. he will get worse every year. that is not a movie we have seen. that is a horror film. people need to remember that this is a choice. you may not like it but it is the choice. we have to choose between an older man who's doing a great job and cares about 100% of america and another older man who is not smart, who did a terrible job, and by his own account is coming into office saying he wants to get an diction. he does not even deny that he wants vengeance. >> let's get to your experience. some opposites are playing the president's team saying they over prepared him which stifled his natural style. is it possible to over prepared candidate? how would you do that? >> i know enough people on the team. the first chief of staff who ran the debate prep. i do not think that they over prepared. i think the problem with preparing for donald trump is that it is not john mccain or barack obama. there is no consistency to it. because of the eroticism and what can happen at any moment even though it is predictable, you have to go through the motions in a lot of different ways. frankly, i do not know how. i traveled over 1 million miles to 110 countries as an official with hillary clinton. we would be done and i would go to my hotel room and's sleep for a day and a have. she would do fundraisers and events. i think we are underestimating what joe biden does day today. donald trump is still unemployed and will hopefully stay that way. this is a bit much. it is hard to prepare for donald trump. he has debated one-on-one six times between 2016 and 2020. i would say he has done pretty badly and at least four of those six. to the extent that you want to make it performative just because the last one is not as horrible as previous. that's how we gauge donald trump. donald trump raised $14 million . of donald trump raised $14 million we would all be talking about losing debates is great for donald trump and being convicted is great for donald trump. joe biden will do his job and hopefully there are many more moments over the next four months for people to see it. it was heartening from what we seen so far. i could end up eating my words but it is heartening that people seem to be open to what he was saying. you had the haters looking at biden ready to pounce. i understand. i'm not saying it looked good but people who are either just not sure were paying attention to how bad the other guy was in a way, donald trump was exposed in that debate in a way he had not been previously. >> it is good to see you. i am sure we will be talking again soon. a former police officer who defended the cap back -- capitol on january 6 responded to the rolling upending obstruction charges. obstruction charges. ne. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. this summer. snacking. just. got. serious. introducing new $3 footlong dippers. the world might not be ready for them... ...but at $3 a pop? your wallet definitely is. hundreds of january 6 defendants including former president trump now have a shot of throwing out a charge that they face for the riot at the capitol. yesterday the supreme court ruled in favor of a defendant who said the justice department overstepped by charging him with obstruction. president trump try to avoid the subject of january 6 and place the blame on nancy pelosi. >> i said peacefully and patriotically. nancy pelosi if you just watch the news on tape to her daughter who was a documentary filmmaker, saying it is my responsibility. i was responsible for this. i offered her 10,000 soldiers or national guard and she turned them down. >> with me now one of the officers that defended the capitol on january 6. i am glad you are here. you were there on january 6 as the angry mob stormed the capitol trying to stop certification of president biden's victory. i'm furious -- curious of what your reaction to the supreme court ruling was. >> i think it is reckless. it strips the department of justice of a valuable tool they have used to hold those who engaged in acts of political violence like those we saw on january 6 accountable. if i draw on my experience as a law enforcement officer any time we remove a mechanism to hold individuals accountable for their behavior, we often times embolden them to engage in the same behavior again. i think unfortunately that is what we will end up seeing as individuals who feel emboldened by the rolling to engage in acts of political violence. >> hearing what former president trump just said about january 6 during the debate, what is your response to that. >> law enforcement has a lot of lessons to learn from what happened on january 6. that being said, i know that donald trump summoned the individuals to the district of columbia. he did so under the false pretense that the election had been stolen and that these individuals needed to stop the certification of the election which was taking place at the capitol in order to have their votes be counted. >> at the campaign event in north carolina president biden called trumps debate response to january 6 his biggest lie of the night. let's take a listen. >> his biggest lie. he lied about how he had nothing to do with the insurrection on january 6. we all saw it with our own eyes. we watched it on television. we saw thousands at his direction attack the capitol. we saw the capitol being ransacked. gallows set up for mike pence. >> elated out right there. do you wish you had done that during the debate? >> i did not watch the debate. i will say i wish that the biden administration had more aggressively defended our democracy and called out donald trump for his attacks on our democracy. donald trump to me poses a clear and present danger to our democracy and it is one of the reasons i did not watch the debate. the choice for me is clear. i was there on january 6 and i experienced those acts of violence committed against me and hundreds of other law enforcement officers like me at the incitement of donald trump and his surrogates. >> this will back up what you have just said. former president trump has set a free elected he will can that are pardoning the hundreds of writers -- rioters convicted in the attack on the u.s. capitol. the message that sends to those on the other side of that day. people like you who put their lives on the line to protect democracy. you suggest what it sends to those who are looking to do harm, but what about police officers and those of you on the front lines for democracy? >> those of us that responded to the capitol that day were just simply doing our jobs. i was a metropolitan police officer. i was working. it was my responsibility to go and ensure the safety of my fellow officers and to make sure that those violent individuals did not succeed in preventing congress from doing its duty that day. that being said, it is clear to me that donald trump has cited with those individuals who attacked law enforcement on january 6. this is not something i have simply surmised in the abstract. donald trump had said so time and time and time again. he calls them heroes and patriots. like you said, he has on many occasions promised to pardon those individuals. individuals who attacked police officers, beat police officers, tased police officers, sprayed them with chemicals, many of whom suffered career ending injuries. and are left with dealing with the fallout and trauma of having lived through an experience like that only to see 50% of the country demonize them for having been there in the first place. >> i am not one of those. i very much appreciate all of your efforts on that day and the candor of your communication about what you experienced, michael fanone. thank you. unpacking the panic about democrats and whether to the debate will move the needle for voters at all. rs at all.